Oh my. Insight, please, on hosting a Saudi student

[myfunnybunch]

We have hosted exchange students for 4 years, mostly from Japan, Korea, and China. This year, we are hosting a young woman from Japan and a young man from Saudi Arabia.

 

Our Saudi student is intelligent, pleasant, eager to learn, and I can see that he is really working hard to be open to a new way of living and a new family.  I really feel that we are establishing a good relationship with this young man. He likes my boys, although he was worried about noise at first until he talked to his mother who told him he was very noisy when he was young. He trusts us to help solve some of his problems, trusts that we are being very careful to make sure he avoids eating pork, and he asks a lot of questions about everything.

 

And...oh my.

 

We have a dog. He is terrified of the dog, beyond just religious restrictions on touching a dog. (I liken it to myself going to live with a family that had a pet tiger. I would be pretty scared, I think.) He will not enter the room if the dog is present. Initially he told us the dog must stay outside, and we explained it is too cold, and he lives in our house. That's been a big compromise for all of us, but we are all (him included) doing our very best to find a balance and be patient, and we keep the dog away from him.

 

He does not like his room. It's very small and it's next to the kitchen. Limited language and cultural differences made him sound very demanding when he insisted that we had another room available (as though we're a hotel), or that we needed to switch his room with our Japanese student's because he did not want to be next to the kitchen. My husband solved this problem by telling him girls upstairs and boys downstairs, period. He understood that.

 

And today....(this is not a big deal, by the way, and I am more amused than anything), he called my husband into the bathroom because he was confused by all the hair in the bathtub. His hair. He didn't even know it was his. He thought someone else had been using the tub. So my husband (bless his heart) is going to show him how to wipe the tub and the floor after he showers. He still doesn't realize that he has to do his own laundry. He's never ironed his own shirts, or cooked a meal for himself beyond a sandwich, or cleaned anything ever.

 

I guess I'm mostly, well, not venting exactly because I am not upset/frustrated. I am very fond of him already, and I know that time and patience and focus on relationship will make this work. I think I'm just needing some time to adjust and ask for input or insight into how to make our home a good experience for our student.

 

Thanks for "listening" if you got this far. :)

 

Cat

[catz]

You're giving this young man a huge gift. :)

[Tiramisu]

Very, very interesting. I hope you continue to post updates. 

[alef]

Sounds like this is going to be a very thought-provoking and mind stretching cultural exchange on all sides.

[Ipsey]

:)

 

Oh, my! 

 

I've taught Saudis for many years, and it's getting much better (Western thinking here) but the challenges you identify are not uncommon.

 

Most men and women who can come to the US (MANY now, with the VERY generous stipends the king has provided to any young person who wishes to study abroad--to avoid potential revolt in the kingdom with so many young people and so few jobs available) have had very nice lives. Most have servants of one sort of another, and sons are particularly . . .babied, should I say? Having never done any of the basic cleaning, cooking, maintenance for themselves is not that unusual among the students I've seen. 

 

As for the dog, yep. When I have Saudis over, a high majority are very frightened of our dog. I don't know if he will come around or not. 

 

I feel for you and the challenges. Is he in an American school learning the language? Is he H.S. or college age?  I've never heard of high school students coming over before, but things are changing fast!

 

He seems surprised at the noise, does he not have a large family in Saudi Arabia? Most students have large families, and it's not at all uncommon for them to live in large extended families.  

 

I do like my Saudi students very much, but for young men coming over, many are completely unprepared for taking care of themselves, honestly and they get into the same kinds of trouble young teens seem to.

 

I had one of my students invite me to the KSA this summer, and I was planning to go but there were lots of difficulties since there is no such thing as a tourist visa to the KSA. Maybe some day though.

 

More thought later.

 

ETA: Women, of course, can't come alone. They must have husband, brother, or father with them. Sometimes--very rarely, a girl might come with a male cousin or brother, and then they might part ways, so the girl lives in one place and the male guardian in another--but if they get caught, she will lose her scholarships (this isn't relevant to your situation, but just an addendum to the information I gave above).

[Ipsey]

How long will this young man be with you? The school year?

[J-rap]

Wow, it sounds like it will be an interesting year! I'm so glad you enjoy him, personally, and hopefully that will carry you both through the tough spots! Keep us updated!

[sparrow]

Yes, please post updates, as others have mentioned.  It sounds like it will be quite a learning experience for everyone

[LibraryLover]

You have a lot of people in your home. I'm impressed. What a great experience!

[SKL]

Is there any local university-based international organization that might have a member who could mentor this young man for a while?  Or a former exchange student from a local family?

 

I had a college "boy" from India in my home for about a year and a half.  So I can relate to some of what you are saying.  Some things you have to tell bluntly up-front because it is so different from their upbringing.  And it might help for you to get an education (if you haven't already) about the commonly held beliefs/assumptions that his countrymen have of Americans (and others) as well.

 

Good luck!

[Ipsey]

I think SKL had the right approach, and she seems to have survived. See if you can find a well-acclimatized Saudi who can mentor this young man, and do be prepared to be clear about what is expected. You might also talk to him together, but have your husband do most of the talking, but with you in clear participation, when very important decisions need to be discussed. 

 

I'll see if I can find some home-stay "parents" of some of our Saudi students here in my area, if you like. They may be able to share their ideas, if you don't have anyone who has had Saudi students living with them before.

 

I've always been AMAZED at what even my most open-minded and educated young Saudi students thought about Americans. (For one, a woman who I actually consider a dear friend now--we were talking about marriage and sex a year or so ago, and she thought that all women in the United States were supposed to have sex by the time they were 19. I was flabbergasted and asked where she had learned that. She couldn't tell me, but she thought that was the case. I told her that many people had sex before marriage--in fact, a majority, but that there was no set time, and there were definitely people who waited. I told her I had waited until marriage and she said. "Ooh, I respect you now."  Ooooh! Indeed!? ROFL)

[myfunnybunch]

How long will this young man be with you? The school year?

 

He says "I can do this for 2-3 months," so probably one university term.

 

He is welcome to stay as long as he is studying at our university. But I suspect he will find an apartment for the next term, which is not unusual for many students as they want to connect with a family and get conversation practice before trying to live independently. I hope he will continue to visit our home frequently, though, as I am already quite fond of him. :)

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

 

 

I feel for you and the challenges. Is he in an American school learning the language? Is he H.S. or college age?  I've never heard of high school students coming over before, but things are changing fast!

 

He seems surprised at the noise, does he not have a large family in Saudi Arabia? Most students have large families, and it's not at all uncommon for them to live in large extended families.  

 

 

He is 26. Boy, is this ever bringing to my attention my own and our cultural expectations of what a 26 year-old should be able to do for him- or herself. :P

 

He is enrolled in a English language program at our nearby university, and is a part of a homestay program connected with the language program.

 

He does not have a large family. He is an only child, living with only his mother and father, which I understand is very unusual in Saudi Arabia.

 

It is interesting, we do see many young couples, and a friend of mine hosted a young woman who came to the U.S. with her brother. The brother was placed in a nearby host family. She was lovely and bonded with her host family, but decided to live in an apartment with her brother after one term, as it was very difficult for her to live so differently.

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

Is there any local university-based international organization that might have a member who could mentor this young man for a while?  Or a former exchange student from a local family?

 

 

Yes, thank goodness. As a matter of fact, that's how we were able to iron out many of our first-day differences. He has a friend who seems to mentor many young men who come to the U.S. from their university. The friend is in California, and spoke to me on the phone about the dog and about the room, then told our student not to worry about the kitchen because we do not prepare meals all day long, and that in the U.S. many families have indoor dogs and it's all right. Our student calls this guy about everything--which bank to go to, which umbrella to buy, which cell phone provider to use....

 

Man, these people are all in each other's business! LOL So another cultural difference that I've noticed--unsolicited advice. I find it charming and almost wish that we were a little more like that, except that it would drive me CRAZY to have people telling me what to do all the time. :D So far, we should eat more brown rice, we should only play Uno in teams of 3 because our whole family is too many, the boys should become entertainers....it's very sweet, and always said and received with a smile, and we laugh (nicely) because we think it's funny and charming.

 

There's also a mentoring group of students who've been in the U.S. for more than one year. They meet weekly with newer students. He went to a meeting yesterday. 

 

The homestay coordinators are very good about providing support to students and families, too. Our Japanese student was telling us that at the homestay orientation the presenter handled the Saudi students' protests over pets in homes very well. It's part of the USA experience.

 

So there's lots of support. It's just the daily adjustments that I'm needing to process. :)

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

That's interesting.  Would you elaborate on this?

 

At 26, I'd expect a young person (in our culture!) to be able to prepare some basic meals, do their own laundry, and know how to do some basic cleaning.

 

I just hadn't really thought about it until now, because it is something that I take for granted in the young people that I know. They typically move into their own living space when they are in their late teens or early twenties and perform most of their own self-care.

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

 and they get into the same kinds of trouble young teens seem to.

 

 

Oh, and would you mind a little more detail about this?

 

Because he is older than most of our exchange students, 26, and seems to be very level-headed, I'm not too worried, but it might be helpful to know what kinds of things we can be watchful for. He seems to really look to my husband for guidance, so I think if my husband warned him about...whatever...he would probably listen.

 

Cat

[SKL]

I could go on for days about the things I've learned "the hard way" about different cultures, but I don't want to plant ideas in anyone's heads, LOL.  He sounds like a very nice young man.  But you will have (good-natured) stories for years to come.

 

The thing someone above mentioned about assumptions about US girls' virginity.  The version I heard was that no girl over 13 (!!) is a virgin.  This impression leads to all kinds of problems, from a sense that American women lack self-respect and don't deserve respect, to the idea that teen girls and young women are "fair game," especially if they are in a place where alcohol is served or if they are drinking alcohol in front of the men.  There is this impression that we actually like uninvited physical advances.  Not sure how best to avoid that problem, but since you have young women in your home, you might want to watch out for that.

[Guest submarines]

At 26, I'd expect a young person (in our culture!) to be able to prepare some basic meals, do their own laundry, and know how to do some basic cleaning.

 

I just hadn't really thought about it until now, because it is something that I take for granted in the young people that I know. They typically move into their own living space when they are in their late teens or early twenties and perform most of their own self-care.

 

Cat

At 26, I'd expect a person of any culture, to realize he can't demand to switch rooms in the situation you described! 26??? I though you were describing a 15 year old. 

[Ipsey]

Oh, and would you mind a little more detail about this?

 

Because he is older than most of our exchange students, 26, and seems to be very level-headed, I'm not too worried, but it might be helpful to know what kinds of things we can be watchful for. He seems to really look to my husband for guidance, so I think if my husband warned him about...whatever...he would probably listen.

 

Cat

 

Being a little older, and in a host family, I imagine he's unlikely to get into much trouble for now.

 

At the previous Saudi-heavy school I worked at (80% Saudi students in an ESL school for students preparing for US universities), many of the young, single men (with the ubiquitous Saudi Bachelor's in Business--or just out of high school, and planning to go into business) didn't come to class, drank quite a bit, went to the hookah bars and chased girls (cause every American girl looks easy to a Saudi guy, I guess). It was not uncommon for only 1/2 of my Saudi guys come to class for more than one or two days of any given term. Our director wasn't notifying the Saudi Cultural Mission of these absences, so they kept getting their scholarships (and director kept getting paid very well). (Room, board, tuition and $1,800 spending money per month per student, all provided by King Abdullah). This is still the stipend, in my region, as far as I know. Some teachers at my new school were mentioning the other day that their students got more to come to school than we do to teach. True! I don't get paid as much as they get to play with. (I think my new school only has about 60% Saudi right now.)  

 

Some of the married men also wind up in romantic entanglements, unfortunately. I've seen that happen too often. They  just aren't used to the freedom and the culture. When you've had the threat of death and heavy cultural approbation to direct your behavior, the easing of that . . . well, it can be tough.  Plus, Saudi men, as you say, can be Terribly Charming. 12 years ago, when I first began teaching ESL, I was terrified. I was young, the men were older, serious, looked down on me for being young and a woman and presuming to teach them. Some wore thobes and the red head coverings. Very intimidating.

 

Now, they're young and eager and wide-eyed. And many are dashing and . . . well not at all unattractive, and very warm. But not necessarily very responsible.   :)

 

The women, for the most part, are often more studious and serious than the men. They often see time in the US as a great opportunity to learn and improve and really have something to take back to the Kingdom. I've never had a female students fail out, but I've had many men do so.  When I started teaching, 95% wore black abayaas and we had to have separate classes for them because they wouldn't be in the same classes as the men (their husbands, mostly).  Now, very few women cover their faces--perhaps 5%, and these often wear the form hiding robes. But most of my Saudi students have floral and other pretty headcoverings and wear nonfitting tunics and shirts (long sleeved) and long skirts or pants.

 

I'm inviting my students over next Sunday, and I expect to have a whole passel of Saudis here. It's always fun, but it might be hard to do for too long a time. :)  I'm glad you have all sorts of help! :)

 

ETA: Oh, we do have one female student now whose father attends with her. We don't allow him to be in the classrooms with her, so he just sits outside of her classrooms and waits for her to come out and shuttle her down the hall to her next class. (She is quite annoyed by this, from what I understand.) The other day, he helped himself to a batch of popcorn another teacher had prepared for an activity in one of her classes. I believe the director is planning to ask him to spend his day in the library and simply pick his daughter up after school now. :)

[SKL]

Another thing that happened with a Middle Eastern visitor to my house:  he was using our computer/internet to look up porn.  I don't know if any of it was illegal (kiddy) porn, because I wasn't about to check.  All I know is that he accidentally left a whole "little black book" full of websites that, had he looked them up in his home country, could have gotten him beheaded.  He was married with kids, by the way.

[Ipsey]

Ah.  Yeah.  Well maybe in his culture the females do it?  Who knows. 

 

My husband, from Germany, didn't move out on his own as a late teen.  Neither did is brother.  They were much older.   I'm confident my husband could figure stuff out, but truth be told he has never really done much of any of that.  His mother wouldn't let him.

 

Women and servants. 

 

When I had my first child, I had a Saudi student visit my home for tutoring, and he asked why I didn't just get a maid from the Philippines. I could just" buy them to come over and live with me," and they would take care of the house and my daughter. He assured me there were many of them (Philippinas who would work for me) because Saudis did this all the time.   :)

 

Child-rearing is really quite fascinating in Saudi Arabia. I feel bad for lots of the young women who come over with their husbands and have children here. They do all of the house work and cooking and few seem to have any understanding of child rearing. It seems that servants and older relatives tend to do most of the child-rearing. I had a student call me a couple of years ago desperate for ideas of what to do with their 2-year-old. It was almost 1 a.m. and the story beyond this is almost too amazing to believe when the details of their situation came out.  I've shared this with some of my colleagues, and they all had stories about their students coming to them desperate for some help with child rearing. (I mean, I realize we were all new parents too at one time, but even the concept of bed times and certain in-door manners for children seemed foreign to them. Parents just didn't do that in Saudi Arabia, and they're afraid of upsetting their children. The poor parents were beside themselves with exhaustion and frustration!)

 

I'm really not trying to paint all Saudis with the same brush. Different regions have different cultures and expectations, and everyone is an individual, but I'm just sharing my experiences teaching primarily Saudis for over a decade.  (And I do really enjoy them. I look forward to the day when I can go over. I have a colleague there right now who teaches at a women's college in Riyadh loves it, but I certainly wouldn't take my whole family to live there for a job.)

[SKL]

Yes, moms from "traditional" Eastern backgrounds have it very hard here in the USA.  (Well, some of the rich ones do have imported servants, but most don't.)  Kids in their culture have a home-cooked meal at least 3x per day (including their packed lunch), do zero chores, are supposed to be perfect in school, and the house has to be always ready for the husband to bring his colleagues over for dinner without notice.  And they can't stomach the idea of paying the going US rate for maid service etc., so they try to do it all themselves.  (This includes many professional women who work outside the home.)  To make matters worse, some of them have abusive husbands or in-laws.  Ugh.  It is one of the best-kept secrets how much torture goes on in some communities here.

[maize]

When I was a young mother I had a friend from Lebanon who was shocked when she came over (unannounced) and found my house a mess and me playing with the children outside. My Middle Eastern friends seemed to spend most of their time cooking and cleaning while their young children watched TV. I think at home they were used to more extended family pitching in, maybe they were used to servants as well, I don't know.

[SKL]

And this is different for many women in the US how?

 

Well, I don't know any non-immigrant American women who 1. work in a demanding job such as specialist MD, 2. cook three fresh gourmet meals per day so their primary-school child can eat a traditional hot meal at school, 3. take care of their ailing mother/ mother-in-law, 4. keep House Beautiful without help, 5. host frequent parties without help, 6. give in to their young children's every desire, 7. chase their school kids' homework and extracurriculars and tutoring, and 8. do all this with a smile on their faces.  I do know many Asian-born moms who do this.  And these are not the ones who are abused (as far as I know).

 

Then there are those who don't work outside the home because their husbands are too controlling / paranoid.  I once visited the home of a friend's inlaw.  Inlaw (wife/mom) took a very brief trip to the store to buy orange juice.  Husband noticed that she'd been out and began interrogating her about it.  He was yelling at her in front of us (traveling houseguests whom he'd never met before) because she had left the gated community without his permission.  She pretty much worked like a house slave, and her young son was one of the most obnoxiously spoiled kids I've ever seen.

 

I have an Asian friend whose husband forced her to have four abortions that she didn't want to have.

 

I'm close to several international communities, so I often hear of cases where a wife has been murdered or desperately needs help escaping a horrific domestic situation.  Sometimes the women can't seek help for themselves because of language barriers / ignorance of available services.  Other times they are simply too scared.

 

If you know American women in these kinds of situations, maybe they need some help.

[SKL]

You didn't mention that they are working outside the house in the other thread.  I was just thinking that plenty of women clean the house, cook all the meals, help kids with school work, etc. without the help of maids, etc.  And plenty of women who work do all that too.

 

Granted, maybe they don't have slave driving husbands, but they are juggling a lot without maids and servants. 

 

Well actually I did say many of them work outside the home and many are abused.

 

Trust me, I have been an American woman for a long time, and I'm a single working mom, and I have it easy compared to many of my Asian-American friends and acquaintances.

 

[SKL]

Ha, I came close to marrying a traditional Asian man, who went to great lengths to tell me what would be expected of me, LOL.  I could tell you stories!  Good thing he got violent before I was 100% committed . . . .

[myfunnybunch]

Women and servants. 

 

 

Yes. Our young man says his mother cooks, and the servant (or servants?) cleans. For $200/month they have a housekeeper/maid who comes every day. (I don't know about days off, etc.) But from the sounds of it, they may be fairly progressive if they're hiring someone to come to the house at all instead of just "buying" someone to come live with them and take care of them.

 

Cat

[Plink]

At 26, I'd expect a young person (in our culture!) to be able to prepare some basic meals, do their own laundry, and know how to do some basic cleaning.

 

I just hadn't really thought about it until now, because it is something that I take for granted in the young people that I know. They typically move into their own living space when they are in their late teens or early twenties and perform most of their own self-care.

 

Cat

Eliminate the word "basic" and I would completely agree.  At 26 any human should be able to take care of themselves completely independently.  Respectful interactions, cooking, cleaning, and self-care are not optional activities for adults.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes. Our young man says his mother cooks, and the servant (or servants?) cleans. For $200/month they have a housekeeper/maid who comes every day. (I don't know about days off, etc.) But from the sounds of it, they may be fairly progressive if they're hiring someone to come to the house at all instead of just "buying" someone to come live with them and take care of them.

 

Cat

Depends on what you mean by "buying".  These young poor Filipinas (most from poor outlying areas) are hired to go to many different countries as nannies, maids etc.  They send most of the money home to their families back home.  In some Middle eastern places (Dubai is where I've heard of many of the stories) their passports are taken away so that they cannot just leave if there is abuse.  (Of course this happens here in this country too esp. when the help is here illegally and don't feel like they have legal recourse.)  Many of the middle class or higher Filipinos in the Philippines hire these same young women to work as servants and sometimes young boys to work as house boys.  I kept getting in trouble for talking to the servants and trying to help clear the table etc.!  The servants often slept on the hard kitchen floor on a futon type mattress that was put up during the day.  But these same servants were absolutely shocked that I did my own laundry and cooked my own meals.  Many Filipinos in Canada and the US will send back home to the Philippines for cheap live in help.  But I don't know of any of them who are abusive or confiscate their passports leading to slavery.

[SKL]

The difference might be that fewer husbands get violent here over imperfection, but the fact is a lot of women here do all of that too.  The only factor I have missing is my husband doesn't get upset if things aren't perfect.  And yes, I get that that is a huge difference.  But it's no less difficult otherwise.

 

I know many, many professional women and the only ones who both work (outside the home) and cook even one meal EVERY day are immigrants.  And among immigrants, the ones who both work AND provide 3 home-cooked traditional meals per day are all Asian-American Supermoms.

 

There could be exceptions, but this is definitely not typical of professional American women.

[Laura Corin]

Wow, here you couldn't get someone for $200 a week.

 

In Hong Kong, the minimum wage for a foreign domestic helper (most are from the Philippines, some from Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia) is about USD500 a month.  Common working hours are, essentially, 24 hours a day 6 days a week, as maids usually live in and are commonly responsible for the children over night as well as all day.

 

L

[SKL]

The difference might be that fewer husbands get violent here over imperfection, but the fact is a lot of women here do all of that too.  The only factor I have missing is my husband doesn't get upset if things aren't perfect.  And yes, I get that that is a huge difference.  But it's no less difficult otherwise.

 

My real point is that Asian moms who immigrate to the US are expected to keep up a household as if they had servants, when they don't.  AND go to work.

 

And the fact that they have not been brought up doing domestic chores does make it a lot harder for them.  There is a learning curve and they might be reluctant to accept "modern conveniences" that are not used in their family of origin.

 

As an example, the concept of eating leftovers is something you would only broach with a dog in some places.  Trusting a dishwasher or putting undies/socks with other clothes in a washing machine is a most uncomfortable thought.  Even using water from the bathroom tap to drink or brush teeth is gag-worthy.

 

My friend had no idea how to hold a broom nor what a fitted sheet was when she came here.  Another friend ironed every t-shirt because she hadn't learned other ways to avoid wrinkles (and wrinkles were not to be tolerated).

[Jean in Newcastle]

My real point is that Asian moms who immigrate to the US are expected to keep up a household as if they had servants, when they don't.  AND go to work.

 

And the fact that they have not been brought up doing domestic chores does make it a lot harder for them.  There is a learning curve and they might be reluctant to accept "modern conveniences" that are not used in their family of origin.

 

As an example, the concept of eating leftovers is something you would only broach with a dog in some places.  Trusting a dishwasher or putting undies/socks with other clothes in a washing machine is a most uncomfortable thought.  Even using water from the bathroom tap to drink or brush teeth is gag-worthy.

 

My friend had no idea how to hold a broom nor what a fitted sheet was when she came here.  Another friend ironed every t-shirt because she hadn't learned other ways to avoid wrinkles (and wrinkles were not to be tolerated).

"Asian moms" is such a wide category, seeing as Asia is a huge continent and people from different Asian countries can vary widely from each other.  

 

All Japanese young women I've known have been brought up doing some domestic chores.  They have absolutely no problem accepting modern conveniences.  And they eat leftovers all the time.  

 

Many of the Filipinas I know are used to having household help and have it even in the US or Canada.  (I have Filipino family in both countries).  Many of their homes are not immaculate.  They have absolutely no problem with using modern conveniences or eating leftovers.  We did not use water from the bathroom or any other tap in the Philippines but that was because the water was untreated.  No one had any problem using treated water if it was available.

 

My Chinese neighbors have weekly household help.  In one family the dad does all the cooking - and it is very very good!  They use modern conveniences.  I don't know about leftovers but they have no problem getting pre-made food from Costco.

 

Some of the Hmong women I've known had a hard time with modern conveniences etc. but that was because they had never seen them before.  I don't know them as well so I don't know how they keep house or cook on a daily basis.  (The reason I know about the conveniences is because they asked me how to use them so they certainly were not adverse to learning.)

[Catherine]

We hosted an AFS exchange student from Pakistan for a year. It was an education-for all of us. We had hosted before, as you have, asian students. Our Pakistani son was turning 17 when he came here, so he was much younger, but he was very similar to your student in his expectation that things would *happen* when he wanted them, by invisible hands that need not concern him. He was appalled when my son threw up on the floor (first and last time this has ever happened) and I cleaned it up with paper towels. It took me awhile to figure out why, but in the end I think it was because servants do that kind of dirty work in his house.

 

If Saudi Arabia suffers from the lack of jobs that Pakistan does, servants who are very cheap and plentiful abound. University students have servants who clean, wash their clothes and prepare their meals for as little a $1 per day-according to my Pakistani-American friend whose brother attended college there. So the concept of doing menial tasks for oneself is foreign. Maybe women do them, but mostly, I think it's servants.

 

Our student had never awakened himself for school before. He certainly did not do chores of any kind and despite multiple demos, could not seem to learn how to put a fitted sheet onto a bed. He also clearly had the expectation that we would drive him to any activity he was interested in without prior approval. So we had to negotiate some of those expectations with him. He is very ambitious and driven so very interested in participating in activities that allowed him contact with important people. I got the idea that associating with the powerful is the path to success in his culture, not academic achievement. He was a mediocre student. He also seemed to size people up as to how they could advance him toward his goals. He didn't form relationships with my boys, his host brothers, though in all fairness they didn't put much effort into it either.

 

It was very interesting to see his response to living here. He loved it! He liked being expected to do for himself, even though he regularly failed at it. He also has decided, a year later, to apply to college here. So I take that to mean that despite our rough treatment of him-LOL-he liked something about the USA and wants to come back.

[quark]

My real point is that Asian moms who immigrate to the US are expected to keep up a household as if they had servants, when they don't.  AND go to work.

 

And the fact that they have not been brought up doing domestic chores does make it a lot harder for them.  There is a learning curve and they might be reluctant to accept "modern conveniences" that are not used in their family of origin.

 

As an example, the concept of eating leftovers is something you would only broach with a dog in some places.  Trusting a dishwasher or putting undies/socks with other clothes in a washing machine is a most uncomfortable thought.  Even using water from the bathroom tap to drink or brush teeth is gag-worthy.

 

My friend had no idea how to hold a broom nor what a fitted sheet was when she came here.  Another friend ironed every t-shirt because she hadn't learned other ways to avoid wrinkles (and wrinkles were not to be tolerated).

 

Good grief. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say the Asian moms you know instead of overgeneralizing here?

 

[Lanny]

I know 2 men who were exchange students in U.S. High Schools, for one school year. Both of them are from "Western" countries (Colombia and the Dominican Republic) so the cultural differences were minimal, in comparison to someone from the KSA.  I believe their experiences changed both of them, forever. One of them was on stage, in a concert, in Paris, tonight. The other is a university student.

 

People who go to the USA to attend language schools are taking advantage of a policy of the U.S. State Department, which encourages granting Student visas. The Consuls do not like to deny applicants for Student visas, so they are much easier to get, than a Tourist visa, for example.

 

Someone coming from a country like Colombia is likely to have had domestic help in the house when they grew up, but here, people are not purchased, as in the Philippines and other countries.

 

When I was in high school, one of my  cousins worked in the KSA for 5 years. His wife could only drive on the Aramco base. One story that I recall is that if a Saudi steals from another Saudi, they will cut off his hand, but if they steal from an American or other foreginer, that is OK, because we are not considered worthy. Infidels or something. 

 

I wish the OP much good luck hosting these students!  If you can host someone from Colombia or another Latin American country, it will probably be much much easier on you.

[Little Nyssa]

Back to the OP-- I would feel unhappy with this situation. It's not fair for OP to have a person who is constantly demanding and criticizing, however charmingly, and it is likewise not fair for the student to have to live in the same house with a creature that is taboo in his culture. OP is very generous but I'm not sure I would do it.

[Guest submarines]

OP, how did he end up in a placement with a dog? 

[SKL]

Good grief. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say the Asian moms you know instead of overgeneralizing here?

 

 

Well obviously that is what I meant, and more specifically, Asian / Middle Eastern moms who come from a lifestyle that includes many servants.

 

I am not perfect and I don't always state my thoughts with 100% precision (as can be said of anyone).  I think you get my point, though.

 

Sorry if I offended any Asian moms.

[quark]

Well obviously that is what I meant, and more specifically, Asian / Middle Eastern moms who come from a lifestyle that includes many servants.

 

I am not perfect and I don't always state my thoughts with 100% precision (as can be said of anyone).  I think you get my point, though.

 

Sorry if I offended any Asian moms.

 

Thank you for your clarification. I don't expect 100% precision. I think I get your point but your experience with the limited number of immigrants you have met is so completely different from my own, and I felt the need to bring that up. Apologies to OP for the side track.

[myfunnybunch]

I wish the OP much good luck hosting these students!  If you can host someone from Colombia or another Latin American country, it will probably be much much easier on you.

 

This summer we had a student from Ecuador, which was lovely! Her daughter joined us halfway through her stay, which was delightful. Very warm and helpful and not a lot of cultural misunderstandings.

 

But I am enjoying our new experience too. What a great way to get insight into a culture that is so very different!

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

Back to the OP-- I would feel unhappy with this situation. It's not fair for OP to have a person who is constantly demanding and criticizing, however charmingly, and it is likewise not fair for the student to have to live in the same house with a creature that is taboo in his culture. OP is very generous but I'm not sure I would do it.

 

Oh dear, perhaps I've misrepresented him. I don't think it is his intention to sound demanding or critical. As a matter of fact, he is very eager to please, and if his English was better, we could probably explain the niceties of making requests in our culture.

 

When he arrived, he had been traveling for 27 hours and was exhausted, a dog came into the room and surprised him, his English is very limited--I didn't know until now that there is a level zero at the language institute!-- so he hasn't learned any of our polite social language beyond please/thank you/excuse me, and I suspect that culturally they may tend to be more direct about asking/telling than we are. (Which gives me some insight into how our Japanese students might feel about how we communicate sometimes, as they tend to be much more indirect than we are!)

 

Overall it's a good experience, but I think you're right, it is not for everyone! I think we'll be willing to accept more Saudi/Muslim students in the future, however, as the good outweighs the challenges.

 

Cat

 

ETA: Here's another plus in his favor, and something that says a lot about his respectfulness, IMO. When dh took him along to drop the boys off at MIL's, he showered and dressed up in his best jacket, which is bright red, to meet dh's mother.

 

Oh, and that jacket.....

It's bright screaming red. He wore a turquoise shirt with it. He put it on for the first day of orientation, and I said, "Awesome jacket!" Next thing I knew, he had taken it off. He told dh "Maybe girls will notice my jacket." Not sure if he thought that was a good thing or a bad thing.  :lol:  He did wear it the next day, though.

[myfunnybunch]

OP, how did he end up in a placement with a dog? 

 

There are many Saudi students who want homestay families and very few homestay families without pets. The families without pets typically get the few students who actually have medical papers indicating that they have a genuine allergy.

 

They are told this when they sign up for homestay. Anyone who wants a homestay and says no pets is contacted with the information that there are no more pet/dog-free families, and asked if they are willing to live with a family with animals in the house, including dogs and/or cats. This is also addressed in the homestay orientation after they arrive, and his friend who speaks very good English also told him basically that in America dogs are indoor pets for many families and he was going to have to find a way to deal.

 

Cat

[Renee in NC]

At 26, I'd expect a young person (in our culture!) to be able to prepare some basic meals, do their own laundry, and know how to do some basic cleaning.

 

I just hadn't really thought about it until now, because it is something that I take for granted in the young people that I know. They typically move into their own living space when they are in their late teens or early twenties and perform most of their own self-care.

 

Cat

 

Heck my 11 year old can do all of that!

[Renee in NC]

I know many, many professional women and the only ones who both work (outside the home) and cook even one meal EVERY day are immigrants.  And among immigrants, the ones who both work AND provide 3 home-cooked traditional meals per day are all Asian-American Supermoms.

 

There could be exceptions, but this is definitely not typical of professional American women.

 

I work outside the home full-time and cook one meal a day.  Two would do me in. LOL

[Ipsey]

Well, I don't know any non-immigrant American women who 1. work in a demanding job such as specialist MD, 2. cook three fresh gourmet meals per day so their primary-school child can eat a traditional hot meal at school, 3. take care of their ailing mother/ mother-in-law, 4. keep House Beautiful without help, 5. host frequent parties without help, 6. give in to their young children's every desire, 7. chase their school kids' homework and extracurriculars and tutoring, and 8. do all this with a smile on their faces.  I do know many Asian-born moms who do this.  And these are not the ones who are abused (as far as I know).

 

Then there are those who don't work outside the home because their husbands are too controlling / paranoid.  I once visited the home of a friend's inlaw.  Inlaw (wife/mom) took a very brief trip to the store to buy orange juice.  Husband noticed that she'd been out and began interrogating her about it.  He was yelling at her in front of us (traveling houseguests whom he'd never met before) because she had left the gated community without his permission.  She pretty much worked like a house slave, and her young son was one of the most obnoxiously spoiled kids I've ever seen.

 

I have an Asian friend whose husband forced her to have four abortions that she didn't want to have.

 

I'm close to several international communities, so I often hear of cases where a wife has been murdered or desperately needs help escaping a horrific domestic situation.  Sometimes the women can't seek help for themselves because of language barriers / ignorance of available services.  Other times they are simply too scared.

 

If you know American women in these kinds of situations, maybe they need some help.

 

Oh, my goodness, this is the situation of a woman I tutored this summer to prepare for her PCAT--sans abuse, fortunately.

Her family moved to the US when she was in high school, from Pakistan. She's very smart, and very hard working. Her husband is Pakistani as well, and a resident neurosurgeon in the local university.

 

They have 6 family members living with them, including her F-i-L who needs almost full-time care and is in and out of nursing care and sisters and bro-s in law.

 

She quit her job on the sly--her husband knows and supports her, but not the rest of the family (biotechnology something) to prepare for pharmacy school. She was running all day, I couldn't believe it. Studying, cooking, shopping, picking up this or that family member from bus stations or air port. She fell ill this summer, and I told her I was worried she was suffering from a stress-related illness. She said she thought it was because she was pregnant.

 

Turns out, yes, she is pregnant.

 

She took the PCAT and is planning on beginning school next fall if she is accepted.

 

It exhausts me just thinking about it. I do worry about her :(

[kiwi mum]

He does not like his room. It's very small and it's next to the kitchen. Limited language and cultural differences made him sound very demanding when he insisted that we had another room available (as though we're a hotel), or that we needed to switch his room with our Japanese student's because he did not want to be next to the kitchen. My husband solved this problem by telling him girls upstairs and boys downstairs, period. He understood that.

 

Just an insight into what the issue with the bedroom may be. In the Middle East a small bedroom next to a kitchen would be the maid's room. He may have seen that as an insult, particularly since the other student got a "better' room.

[maize]

Just an insight into what the issue with the bedroom may be. In the Middle East a small bedroom next to a kitchen would be the maid's room. He may have seen that as an insult, particularly since the other student got a "better' room.

That makes sense, I bet you've hit the nail on the head.

[myfunnybunch]

Just an insight into what the issue with the bedroom may be. In the Middle East a small bedroom next to a kitchen would be the maid's room. He may have seen that as an insult, particularly since the other student got a "better' room.

 

Aha! That totally makes sense. No wonder he was so put off. Yikes. Cultural adjustments, right? I'll bet his Saudi friend explained that to him, also, that we don't have maids here (dh has talked to him about this also, that we all do our own housework) so it is just another bedroom.

 

He seems to have settled in by now. :) He was a little surprised to see my dh cleaning the floors and me cleaning up the garden yesterday. We worked cleaning the house and yard most of the day, which was surprising to him.

 

Cathy

[Orthodox6]

Without even addressing the other issues raised, I suggest that the young man be transferred to another household.  If the dog is not acceptable within his religious framework, that in itself should have "red flagged" your household.  If, in addition to whatever prohibition/restriction relates to the religious issue, a person has an innate fear of dogs, a double "red flag" is hoisted.