Instead of Beast Academy...

[EmilyGF]

Hubby doesn't like Beast Academy. At All. He's a total math-and-science guy, too, but is dead set against it.

 

Any suggestions on good, outside-the-algorithm math enrichments?

Thanks,

Emily

[Chrysalis Academy]

Zaccaro's books?  We have Challenge Math, Becoming a Problem Solving Genius, and Real World Algebra.  There is also a Primary Grades Challenge Math.  

 

We also really like Hands-On Equations for introducing algebraic thinking and the concept of a variable, and then with the verbal problems book, there are very meaty problems, and lots of them, in levels that range from ~3rd-4th grade all the way up to things you see in Algebra 1.

[2girls&amom]

Hubby doesn't like Beast Academy. At All. He's a total math-and-science guy, too, but is dead set against it.

 

 

Emily,

 

Any particular reason why he doesn't like it? Just curious...

[Crimson Wife]

You can purchase just the BA practice books by themselves if his objection is the comic book aspect of the guide. Honestly, I don't care much for the guide (too "busy" from a visual standpoint IMHO), but the practice problems are black-and-white and have a fairly "clean" visual look. I do get the guides because DS likes them but I have him read them independently so I don't have to look at them myself. The practice problems he often needs me to prompt him through.

 

In terms of non-BA books, definitely look into Zacarro. Other good options are the Singapore "Intensive Practice" books, Royal Fireworks Press "Problemoids", and Critical Thinking Press "Math Analogies" and "Balance Benders".

[acurtis75]

You can purchase just the BA practice books by themselves if his objection is the comic book aspect of the guide. Honestly, I don't care much for the guide (too "busy" from a visual standpoint IMHO), but the practice problems are black-and-white and have a fairly "clean" visual look. I do get the guides because DS likes them but I have him read them independently so I don't have to look at them myself. The practice problems he often needs me to prompt him through.

 

In terms of non-BA books, definitely look into Zacarro. Other good options are the Singapore "Intensive Practice" books, Royal Fireworks Press "Problemoids", and Critical Thinking Press "Math Analogies" and "Balance Benders".

I was going to make the same suggestion. Dd really enjoys the stories in the guide but she goes through them independently and the practice books have samples and instructions in them. I don't get the impression that dd needs to read the guide book to complete the problems correctly. It is more entertainment for her I think.

[dbmamaz]

But she said enrichment, speciifcally.  We love the Zaccaro books, and murderous maths (which is just for reading - i use it as a preview), Life of Fred.  

[Kathy in Richmond]

In addition to all of the good ideas above, I also like the MOEMS problems books for enrichment in grade levels 4 through 8. I just noticed today that the PA Homeschoolers bookstore has a great closeout sale on them, too.

[EmilyGF]

Thanks for the replies.  I'll look at the practice book and Zacarro math. Thanks!

 

My husband really dislikes the comic book look and feels that "math is interesting on it's own - I don't want my kids to think a comic book is needed to make it exciting." And, really, my kids don't read comic books, so it would be nearly the only comic book in our house.

 

Anna - I've tried sending you PMs but they haven't worked. Can you send me a PM with a way to get in touch? My girls want to play. :-)

 

Emily

[kiwik]

I have a bit of an objection when my son's school talks about make maths or reading fun. Why wouldn't they be fun. The problem is getting the level and support right not the bells and whistles.

[Roadrunner]

I have a bit of an objection when my son's school talks about make maths or reading fun. Why wouldn't they be fun. The problem is getting the level and support right not the bells and whistles.

I have a problem only if the program is dumbed down to make it fun. In the case of BA, they are managing to make it both fun and rigorous, which is a winning combination in our house. That doesn't mean it makes it a right curriculum for everybody, of course.

[Cheriwe]

I have a problem only if the program is dumbed down to make it fun. In the case of BA, they are managing to make it both fun and rigorous, which is a winning combination in our house. That doesn't mean it makes it a right curriculum for everybody, of course.

 

We just started BA and my DS7 loves it.  It definitely doesn't "dumb down" math.  My son enjoys reading it and he is certainly being challenged. But, like Roadrunner said, that doesn't make it the right curriculum for everybody. 

[Spy Car]

Thanks for the replies.  I'll look at the practice book and Zacarro math. Thanks!

 

My husband really dislikes the comic book look and feels that "math is interesting on it's own - I don't want my kids to think a comic book is needed to make it exciting." And, really, my kids don't read comic books, so it would be nearly the only comic book in our house.

 

Anna - I've tried sending you PMs but they haven't worked. Can you send me a PM with a way to get in touch? My girls want to play. :-)

 

Emily

 

 

Sorry, but his grounds for objections are not well considered when one takes into account how brilliantly BA presents math education.

 

He is getting tripped up on something that is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things (i.e., the comic book form), and he should get over it, or you will miss out on something really great due to a prejudice about comic books. Not good thinking. Really.

 

The Zaccaro books are very good. They too have little comic-type illustrations (although far fewer than the BA Guides),

 

Using the BA Practice books without the Guides make no sense what-so-ever. The "teaching" is in the Guides. 

 

Bill

[Crimson Wife]

Using the BA Practice books without the Guides make no sense what-so-ever. The "teaching" is in the Guides. 

 

Bill

Most pages in the practice book have a bit of teaching and a worked example. I don't read the guides because they are visually too "busy" for me, and the information in the practice books has been enough to help my DS with the BA problems, at least in 3A & 3B (we should be receiving our fall semester charter books soon including 3C and 3D soon).

[mom2bee]

I see that all the math supplements that I was going to recommend have already been mentioned.

 

While BA seems to be beloved by many, I can see where your husband is coming from. If you are put off by or irked by something, you are put off by or irked by it. Whatever the reason. I recommend looking into the various things mentioned and I am sure that you will find something. If i can think of or find anything else that fits the bill, I'll try to remember and come back to update.

 

Kids of all ages have received fantastic, memorable and enjoyable math educations before AoPS and BA came out, many are still getting them without BA or other AoPS products. The curriculum that you can stand to teach, will teach and will get done is far superior to a "better" curriculum that irks you, wont get taught and wont get done.

[Spy Car]

Most pages in the practice book have a bit of teaching and a worked example. I don't read the guides because they are visually too "busy" for me, and the information in the practice books has been enough to help my DS with the BA problems, at least in 3A & 3B (we should be receiving our fall semester charter books soon including 3C and 3D soon).

 

We've completed 3A-D, and I can tell you you are missing out on a great deal by skipping over the experience of reading the Guides because you find them "busy." The Guides are a vital and interesting learning component. Not something to skip IMO.

 

Bill

[Crimson Wife]

We've completed 3A-D, and I can tell you you are missing out on a great deal by skipping over the experience of reading the Guides because you find them "busy." The Guides are a vital and interesting learning component. Not something to skip IMO.

 

Bill

Meh, we're using BA as a supplement to Singapore so there's plenty of math instruction going on at our house. The challenging practice problems are why I bought BA, not the teaching in the guides (which we do own and my DS has read).

[Spy Car]

What's going on in the BA Guides is qualitatively different than direct instruction in Singapore (or the BA Practice Books).

 

There is a "discovery" aspect that makes kids think and reason for themselves, rather than just being "spoon-fed." That is a big deal. Plus the Guides are fun, both mathematically and in presentation.

 

If your son is reading the Guides independently, then only you are missing out. Having the students miss out is not a course I would recommend one bit. The program was designed as it is for very good reasons.

 

Bill

[Soror]

Sorry, but his grounds for objections are not well considered when one takes into account how brilliantly BA presents math education.

 

He is getting tripped up on something that is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things (i.e., the comic book form), and he should get over it, or you will miss out on something really great due to a prejudice about comic books. Not good thinking. Really.

 

The Zaccaro books are very good. They too have little comic-type illustrations (although far fewer than the BA Guides),

 

Using the BA Practice books without the Guides make no sense what-so-ever. The "teaching" is in the Guides. 

 

Bill

I've got to agree w/ Bill here.  It is not a sin to have fun while learning.  Words in a comic book form aren't inherently bad either.  I see that you use RS as well, which has as one of its perks fun games for learning facts.  I see a great similarity w/ BA and RS in that regard.   I think we all want information in a visually appealing format and it is no different than for our kids.  I would have to challenge by dh to give a more reasoned objection.  We do have Zaccaro here and a Life of Fred book.  Neither ds or I were a big fans of Fred.   Zaccaro is ok but imo not really like BA.

[blondeviolin]

As a total math nerd, I love Beast Academy. My oldest is a year ahead in math, but not "mathy" AT ALL. She loves BA and I love that the AOPS crew has made a curriculum that can open her eyes to how neat math is. Even my non-mathy husband can get a glimpse of how cool I think math is. :).

 

Math isn't just arithmetic. It's about patterns and shapes and relationships and being willing to try.

[EmilyGF]

I think the posters arguing with my husband don't understand where he is coming from, which is fine, since I'm not trying to argue about BA. If it works for you, great.

 

I'm just asking for recs for a non-algorithmic math alternative.

 

BA is definitely out for our family. Please stop arguing with me.

 

Emily

[WinsomeCreek]

Emily, not sure what kind of enrichment you are looking for, but this book can talk you through a math circle on your own...http://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Circle-Diaries-Year-Curriculum/dp/0821887459 and similar idea-

I also think this stuff is pretty cool http://www.jamestanton.com/index.php?s=%22math+without+words%22 or http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/james-tanton/math-without-words/paperback/product-12303272.html

 

[EmilyGF]

Winsome, thanks for the links! Those are beautiful!

 

Emily

[raptor_dad]

I think people are being somewhat dogmatic here. BA looks like a great curriculum but I don't see how it is both unique AND necessary.

 

What's going on in the BA Guides is qualitatively different than direct instruction in Singapore (or the BA Practice Books).

I agree with this. With DS6, we unschooled math in K and have ramped things up over the summer. We are using MEP and Miquon and have used some of CSMP(mostly arrows, and some minicomp). I also fully reviewed and annotated copies of Singapore and SMSG.

 

I felt like the mastery curriculums such as Singapore were really good but undersold what my DS was capable of. He is very much a VSL, whole to parts learner and introducing things and letting them stew works well for us. Spiral programs like MEP are a huge pain to compact but the richness makes it worthwhile for us. CSMP was also a fabulous option but I liked MEP/Miquon more.

 

 

There is a "discovery" aspect that makes kids think and reason for themselves, rather than just being "spoon-fed." That is a big deal. Plus the Guides are fun, both mathematically and in presentation.

 

If your son is reading the Guides independently, then only you are missing out. Having the students miss out is not a course I would recommend one bit. The program was designed as it is for very good reasons.

I also agree with this... but we will be finishing Miquon and MEP3 by sometime this winter and I'm planning to continue with MEP but am unsure whether we will add BA. We could add patty paper geometry/hands-on geometry and the Lenchner problem solving books over the next 2 years and it would be a similar cost and time commitment. We are planning on using AOPS later but perhaps not exclusively. James Tanton's Thinking Mathematics! also looks VERY good.

 

I think BA is a great single program for grades 3-5 but I think you can create something just as good by putting together other programs. Do you agree or is it really one of a kind? I have not been able to preview it yet so I can't make my own judgement.

 

thanks,

-chris

[Soror]

Emily- I didn't mean to be argumentative. I was giving my answer to how I would answer my husband ifhe made that declaration. I don't think the argument is well reasoned and I would tell my dh that. I hope you find something that works for your family. In my limited exposure to various math supplements I don't think there is a very good comparison to BA.

[Spy Car]

I think people are being somewhat dogmatic here. BA looks like a great curriculum but I don't see how it is both unique AND necessary.

 

 

I agree with this. With DS6, we unschooled math in K and have ramped things up over the summer. We are using MEP and Miquon and have used some of CSMP(mostly arrows, and some minicomp). I also fully reviewed and annotated copies of Singapore and SMSG.

 

I felt like the mastery curriculums such as Singapore were really good but undersold what my DS was capable of. He is very much a VSL, whole to parts learner and introducing things and letting them stew works well for us. Spiral programs like MEP are a huge pain to compact but the richness makes it worthwhile for us. CSMP was also a fabulous option but I liked MEP/Miquon more.

 

 

 

I also agree with this... but we will be finishing Miquon and MEP3 by sometime this winter and I'm planning to continue with MEP but am unsure whether we will add BA. We could add patty paper geometry/hands-on geometry and the Lenchner problem solving books over the next 2 years and it would be a similar cost and time commitment. We are planning on using AOPS later but perhaps not exclusively. James Tanton's Thinking Mathematics! also looks VERY good.

 

I think BA is a great single program for grades 3-5 but I think you can create something just as good by putting together other programs. Do you agree or is it really one of a kind? I have not been able to preview it yet so I can't make my own judgement.

 

thanks,

-chris

 

sorry

 

 

 

 

[Spy Car]

 

sorry

[Spy Car]

Sorry i'm having a glitch with this response (Spy Car)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris,

 

The programs you mentioned—MEP, CSMP, Miquon, Singapore—are all really strong. Like you, I cobbled together a Pre-K to 2nd/3rd grade program using these (and some RS, Zaccaro, and SMSG stuff).

 

One can obviously enjoy some pretty fine mathematics programs, and days are only so long, so something has to give. That said, BA has earned a "must have" spot in our math mix. Could others choose differently and still have great options? Sure.

 

I just know how much enthusiasm BA generates at my house. While my son is generally pretty game to do math, BA is the only program he will "ask" me to do with him unprovoked (Hey Dad, can we do some Beast?). So that is a huge factor for me. And the mathematical teaching/learning is outstanding IMO.

 

I sort of "gulped" at the comic book format myself when I was first made aware of it. But from the time of the first published Sample Chapter my son was hooked. We have no other comic books in the house, save some Diary of a Wimpy Kid books (if those count) and we read a graphic novel version of Beowulf from the library. BA has not been a "gateway drug" to comic books. It has helped kept math interesting.

 

It is one of the great resources available. It is not the only great resource available. If it hits with a child–and it has with mine–the "format" issues dissolve into the category of" small stuff," at least for me. And I've come to really enjoy the format, truth told.

 

Everyone has to made choices. BA is not the only game in town, but ruling it out because of a prejudice against comix strikes me as short sighted.

 

Bill

[acurtis75]

I was also hesitant about the idea of the comic book format because I'm not big on the idea that everything has to be fun. Dd does read the guides but she doesn't read a section then do related problems sequentially as the curriculum suggests. He reads the guides over and over because she enjoys them and then works through the practice book on her own at her own pace.

 

I do feel BA teaches a unique skillset that I haven't seen addressed elsewhere but I can't say I've searched exhaustively to confirm that is true. I also think BA might appeal slightly more to dd because she is very gifted in language and easily absorbs things presented as a story.

[raptor_dad]

It is one of the great resources available. It is not the only great resource available. If it hits with a child–and it has with mine–the "format" issues dissolve into the category of" small stuff," at least for me. And I've come to really enjoy the format, truth told.

 

Everyone has to made choices. BA is not the only game in town, but ruling it out because of a prejudice against comix strikes me as short sighted.

 

Bill

Thanks. That was really helpful... I'm going to buy and review the books in the next couple of months... Most likely I'll keep it and add it into the mix at some point...

 

However, the OP was very clear that BA wouldn't work for her family. If thats set in stone, it is more useful to discuss other resources in the context of BAs strengths.. With a strong main program, the MOEMS books, Challenge Math, and some pre-geometry you don't NEED BA. It may still be the best option but if it doesn't work for you there are certainly other choices.

 

-chris

[Arcadia]

My kids didn't like the color and "clutter" of the BA textbook/guides (they find school textbooks in general too colorful anyway). They are not interested in the Zaccaro books or Life of Fred either. They think it is boring. They didn't like the cartoon guide series either. My kids aren't into any comic books. They will read, laugh and find it boring to re-read.

We use contests problems and math circles problems instead for enrichment. I just print them off the internet.

[kiwik]

I wasn't saying BA isn't good. My oldest isn't ready for it anyway. If I lived somewhere it was feasible I would order the first one in a year or so to see how it went. I am less keen on buying a whole year to justify the postage. The same goes for LoF.

[Kathleen.]

Zaccaro's books? We have Challenge Math, Becoming a Problem Solving Genius, and Real World Algebra. There is also a Primary Grades Challenge Math.

 

We also really like Hands-On Equations for introducing algebraic thinking and the concept of a variable, and then with the verbal problems book, there are very meaty problems, and lots of them, in levels that range from ~3rd-4th grade all the way up to things you see in Algebra 1.

Did you use both the Intro verbal problems workbook and the Verbal Problems book? Is the Intro workbook necessary if you use the Verbal Book?

Thanks

[Chrysalis Academy]

I used both, because the Intro verbal problems book came with the package that I bought, which included the lessons on cd and the 3-level workbooks that go with the lessons, as well as the manipulatives of course.  We just used that at first, but I quickly realized that I was going to want the big Verbal Problems book with problems from all 3 levels.  The Intro book is just Level 1 problems; negative integers and negative variables are introduced in Levels 2 and 3.  

 

So, to get the full benefit of the program, you do need the Verbal Problems book.  You don't actually need the Intro book if you get the Verbal Problems book, it has plenty of level 1 problems too, but if you end up getting it as part of the package deal, it doesn't hurt to work through it.  

[Kathleen.]

I used both, because the Intro verbal problems book came with the package that I bought, which included the lessons on cd and the 3-level workbooks that go with the lessons, as well as the manipulatives of course.  We just used that at first, but I quickly realized that I was going to want the big Verbal Problems book with problems from all 3 levels.  The Intro book is just Level 1 problems; negative integers and negative variables are introduced in Levels 2 and 3.  

 

So, to get the full benefit of the program, you do need the Verbal Problems book.  You don't actually need the Intro book if you get the Verbal Problems book, it has plenty of level 1 problems too, but if you end up getting it as part of the package deal, it doesn't hurt to work through it.  

I have everything but the intro workbook already and we've been working through the classwork pages.  My next step is to get either the Intro workbook or the verbal book.  Are the problems for level 1 in the Verbal Book set up with the balance or is it just all words?

 

thanks :)

[serendipitous journey]

To the OP -- one option you might like, though this is curriculum rather than enrichment, is Galore Park's materials -- Junior Maths 1,2, and 3 and then So You Really Want to Learn Maths 1,2, and 3 (I think there are three of each, at least).  These are excellent materials, though they don't go as far as I'd like ... they are my favorite non-MEP math curricula in terms of feeling like real maths to me; though I keep coming back to Singapore which really works well for my child. 

 

We detest Zaccaro and Challenging Word Problems, though.  ;)  I would give those a whirl, esp. if you can get Zaccaro from your library; so many folks find they are wonderful!  I hope you like them enormously! 

 

And our current favorite supplement, on the advice of the folks at Rainbow Resource (who I believe no longer sell this) is Calculus Without Tears.  We're doing one lesson/week to drag it out, and I'm trying to get my hands on volume 4 (does anybody have this?  does it actually exist?) 'cause Fourier analyses cheer me up.  It is looking ahead to Vol. 4 that caused me to drag our feet so A.'s brain is mature enough when we hit it. 

 

Finally -- you can present problems from Singapore and Galore Park in open-ended, seminar-feeling and conversational ways; treat them as opportunities to brainstorm &c.  This opens up the curricula considerably I think.  Esp. if you read any living math books, which help make connections to interesting problems. 

 

ETA -- I haven't used these yet, but am planning to employ the Critical Thinking Company's Math Detective & Balance series this year (we're going to try the Balance Algebra level to up our comfort with variables). 

[EinsteinBlueprint]

What is the (implicit) objection on this forum to Khan Academy for math? 

[EndOfOrdinary]

What is the (implicit) objection on this forum to Khan Academy for math? 

 

For me, though I cannot speak for anyone else, the problem with Khan is that it is only drill and kill.  It does not in any way teach a child to critically think about math, or to work with numbers in a way that causes them to make their own connections.  The learning is completely passive.  It is a site which works with memorizing process and then regurgitating.  "Mastery" in this instance, merely means that the student can effectively repeat, not solve.

 

Our family used Khan when my son was in K-2nd grade so he could experiement with seeing different types of mathematics and really explore.  It is a great site for that.

[Targhee]

I would also recommend joining or starting w math circle. We did both - joined a professionally run circle, and started a circle at our co-op.

 

I was hesitant about the comic format of BA. I don't want my kids to think that everything has to be exciting, novel, and "fun" to be worthwhile. But we gave 3A a try when we finished SM 2B early. My son enjoys the format, but really he enjoys the math. The guides are humorous, and colorful, but they are all about the math! And earlier posts were right about how there is guided discovery in the guide books that is so different than direct teaching methods like RS or SM. this is top notch thinking ing they are teaching, not just "how to do math." We are mid way through 3C now, and I highly recommend.