So a friend and I were talking about this...

[JuanitaL]

I'm surprised and disappointed at how many people don't "get" what the guy was doing.

 

This is something my very kind, intelligent, peaceful dad would do if his daughters were under 18 and dating.  It is intended to show that the dad cares enough about his daughter that he would not sit quietly if someone hurt her badly (think date rape).  It's symbolic, but sometimes people need the imagery to get the point.  It is no more a threat than having a lovely, well-trained German shepherd dog for a pet.

 

I assume nobody has a problem with the fact that dads aren't fans of date rape.  I assume these reactions are due to people receiving too many negative images/press and not enough positive images/press about traditional gun ownership and use.

Why wouldn't kind, intelligent, peaceful dad be more inclined to either know the type of boy who is dating his daughter, or not allow his under 18 daughter to go out with someone he thought would date rape her?

[JuanitaL]

 

The last thing I'd do as the parent of the boy would be to call the gun cleaning father and read him the riot act.  Really?

 

"Honey, your boyfriend's mother called.  She said she didn't like the way I said hello to her son.  I guess she doesn't think much of his ability to take care of or speak for himself.  Of course if he can't take care of himself I assume she will be there to take care of any offspring he may have.  Just a little peek into the future of whoever marries him.  As for your friend, it seems he is afraid of adult men or gun owners or something."

Translation - "Girl! That boy didn't like me threatening him! I'd shoot his balls off but he don't seem to have none!" :rolleyes:

[unsinkable]

 

 

Translation - "Girl! That boy didn't like me threatening him! I'd shoot his balls off but he don't seem to have none!" :rolleyes:

 

I guess the world is divided into ball shooters and non-ball shooters.

[SKL]

Obviously there is a great cultural divide in our country.  I can understand saying that would feel weird to you, but to be disgusted after knowing that this is NOT viewed as a threat in these folks' culture is sad.  It's like me being disgusted by a parent buying a burqa for a daughter.  I understand the loving sentiment behind it even though I personally would never do it.  Nor would I encourage my daughter to marry into such a family unless she was fully aware of all that it would entail.  Not my cup of tea is one thing.  Disgust and contempt are just plain sad in this scenario.

[unsinkable]

 

Obviously there is a great cultural divide in our country.  I can understand saying that would feel weird to you, but to be disgusted after knowing that this is NOT viewed as a threat in these folks' culture is sad.  It's like me being disgusted by a parent buying a burqa for a daughter.  I understand the loving sentiment behind it even though I personally would never do it.  Nor would I encourage my daughter to marry into such a family unless she was fully aware of all that it would entail.  Not my cup of tea is one thing.  Disgust and contempt are just plain sad in this scenario.

 

I try very hard not to make violence a joke.

[Frosch]

It was a legitimate gun cleaning and not some show or joke, I'd be fine with it.

I have four boys.  We shoot.  My oldest is on a shooting team.

 

But if Dad was on the porch being funny or threatening....We'd tell our son to get away.  We are very pro-gun but they are not props for humor and you don't threaten with them.

 

Now, if the Dad wants to sit and have a man to man talk to our son prior to going out with her....that would be more that understandable.  However, if he's trying to intimidate and bully a 17-year-old because his daughter is a special snowflake and all must warned away from her....then that's something to walk away from.

 

We value our children just as much and don't bully their friends.

 

 

 

[JuanitaL]

I'm surprised and disappointed at how many people don't "get" what the guy was doing.

 

This is something my very kind, intelligent, peaceful dad would do if his daughters were under 18 and dating.  It is intended to show that the dad cares enough about his daughter that he would not sit quietly if someone hurt her badly (think date rape).  It's symbolic, but sometimes people need the imagery to get the point.  It is no more a threat than having a lovely, well-trained German shepherd dog for a pet.

 

I assume nobody has a problem with the fact that dads aren't fans of date rape.  I assume these reactions are due to people receiving too many negative images/press and not enough positive images/press about traditional gun ownership and use.

 

 

Obviously there is a great cultural divide in our country.  I can understand saying that would feel weird to you, but to be disgusted after knowing that this is NOT viewed as a threat in these folks' culture is sad.  It's like me being disgusted by a parent buying a burqa for a daughter.  I understand the loving sentiment behind it even though I personally would never do it.  Nor would I encourage my daughter to marry into such a family unless she was fully aware of all that it would entail.  Not my cup of tea is one thing.  Disgust and contempt are just plain sad in this scenario.

You're losing me. Some dad  may need the imagery/symbolism of an actual gun to get across to some kid that his daughter is not to be date raped, but that is NOT a threat. It's just .... their culture.

 

Being retired military, we've moved around quite a bit and experienced quite a bit of cultural diversity in the country. Never actually run across this one though. Well, forewarned is forearmed (ha ha), that's why I'll impress upon my boys to buy her dinner at a drive-thru and take her back home. There are just too many other cultures to for me to have to worry about them coming home with both testicles.

 

 

 

Perhaps an ironic aside - we had a church small-group handgun shooting outing (I'm not sure what to call it - we weren't at a range, but at the back of somebody's property with a huge, dirt embankment,). We all took turns firing at the target - usually by the time it was my turn everyone else had shot up the head and the chest area - so I would take out the groin because that was usually unmarked.

[JuanitaL]

It was a legitimate gun cleaning and not some show or joke, I'd be fine with it.

I have four boys.  We shoot.  My oldest is on a shooting team.

 

But if Dad was on the porch being funny or threatening....We'd tell our son to get away.  We are very pro-gun but they are not props for humor and you don't threaten with them.

 

Now, if the Dad wants to sit and have a man to man talk to our son prior to going out with her....that would be more that understandable.  However, if he's trying to intimidate and bully a 17-year-old because his daughter is a special snowflake and all must warned away from her....then that's something to walk away from.

 

We value our children just as much and don't bully their friends.

Well, see ... you either don't get the joke, or don't understand the culture. (trying for sarcasm)

 

I completely agree with you. I'm going to add that if her dad is going to have a man to man talk with my son - there'd better not be a problem when I have a woman to woman talk with his daughter .... because I was a hormonal teenage girl once too.

[unsinkable]

 

Well, see ... you either don't get the joke, or don't understand the culture. (trying for sarcasm)

 

I completely agree with you. I'm going to add that if her dad is going to have a man to man talk with my son - there'd better not be a problem when I have a woman to woman talk with his daughter .... because I was a hormonal teenage girl once too.

 

Maybe as the girl is walking up your driveway, you can be arranging your pile of stones that you'll jokingly use as a joke to stone her if she rapes your son.

[Truscifi]

Well, see ... you either don't get the joke, or don't understand the culture. (trying for sarcasm)

 

I completely agree with you. I'm going to add that if her dad is going to have a man to man talk with my son - there'd better not be a problem when I have a woman to woman talk with his daughter .... because I was a hormonal teenage girl once too.

 

This was actually not unusual where I grew up either.  My first boyfriend's mom had a talk with me about her expectations of both me and her son, and she let me know that she would be keeping an eye on me, and that I should let her know if her son went over the line too.

[Firefly]

I don't think the "Daddy protects his little girl" schtick is cute or funny. My son would be confused and embarrassed if some dad did it to him. Does the dad really think my son is going to hurt his daughter unless he is subtly threatened? I think it's rude to the boy and disempowering to the girl.

 

The best way my dh can protect my daughter is giving her the confidence and assertiveness to protect herself. Better a date to think she would kick his butt if he tried to hurt her (and she would-she's a martial artist) than that she needed Daddy to do it for her after the fact. Better my daughter to think it too.

 

Not to mention that there can be some sort of ownership of the daughter's sexuality implied too. Don't touch my daughter, even if she wants you to, says this is between the guys here. She isn't capable of deciding what she wants to do, but don't worry. The men will work it out.

 

 

YES.  Thank you!! 

[ThisIsTheDay]

The more I see this thread go on, the more I am beginning to think dh *should* sit on the porch and clean his gun.  It would give us a very, very good indication of the background of any young man coming to see my daughter.  And if his family had a problem with it, they can be glad they found out we were crazy from the get go.  In the OP, there was no indication that the father was acting in a threatening manner.  If something indicated otherwise, then my response might be different.

 

I'm sure some will jump all over this. That's fine.  I'm sure you'd freak out if my dh and our friends brought their handguns to the wedding--since they bring them everywhere else.  (Shotguns stay in the truck.)  But the pastor would probably lock his away in his office before any ceremony.

 

It's been a fascinating thread.

 

 

[JuanitaL]

 

 

Maybe as the girl is walking up your driveway, you can be arranging your pile of stones that you'll jokingly use as a joke to stone her if she rapes your son.

Symbolically, of course. Some people need imagery to understand the point. Of course, this would be valid in my new-found culture.

[JuanitaL]

This was actually not unusual where I grew up either.  My first boyfriend's mom had a talk with me about her expectations of both me and her son, and she let me know that she would be keeping an eye on me, and that I should let her know if her son went over the line too.

That's all I want - understanding when I tell two teens getting ready to go out "You both need to keep your hands out of each others pants. Drive carefully. Don't be out too late."

[poppy]

Let me shed a different perspective on this.

 

Is it a veiled threat? Depends on what you mean by threat. But yes, it is meant to convey that if you hurt my daughter I do have the means to hurt you back. Now, all of you are saying this is rude and mean to presume your darling son would hurt the daughter. But the father has NO WAY of knowing if your son is a predator, rapist, abuser, etc. And no, talking to him, or knowing the family, will not make that clear. Just yesterday someone posted how a police officer and member of the church was molesting children at their church! People knew him, knew his family, and still didn't know he was sick in that way. So no, the father does NOT have a way to know this. And no, he probably would not ever ACTUALLY shoot the kid, as he doesn't want to go to jail. But it does put the doubt there. And that makes that girl, his daughter, just a little bit less of a target. If that boy IS a rapist, or abuser, he has just decided that there are better targets/outlets for his sickness than this girl. And that is the whole idea. It's called "layers of security" according to my security expert husband. It's all about making yourself less attractive a mark than the next person. Yes, it is over the top for the average boy, who should be just fine without such a warning. But for the boy that actually might hurt the daughter, it might be a way to convince him that there are better ways to spend his time.

 

At least, that is the thinking of my husband, who has said he will probably do exactly this. And who makes a living evaluating security risks. (I'll admit, he also loves a cliche, and that factors into it as well). This is a favorite song of his: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/littlebigtown/welcometothefamily.html

 

 

Also, I will feel we did a good job raising our daughter if she, on the other hand, feels we are over the top. Because she knows martial arts, and is a crack shot with a gun herself :)

 

I think that utter bull.  A teacher, a minister, a babysitter, a trusted cousin, a coach are the most likely sources of molestation for children. Does your husband make veiled threats to all of them too?   Or is it, it's "acceptable" to threaten a daughter's date due to the cheap joke so he'll just do it then?

[JuanitaL]

The more I see this thread go on, the more I am beginning to think dh *should* sit on the porch and clean his gun.  It would give us a very, very good indication of the background of any young man coming to see my daughter.  And if his family had a problem with it, they can be glad they found out we were crazy from the get go.  In the OP, there was no indication that the father was acting in a threatening manner.  If something indicated otherwise, then my response might be different.

 

I'm sure some will jump all over this. That's fine.  I'm sure you'd freak out if my dh and our friends brought their handguns to the wedding--since they bring them everywhere else.  (Shotguns stay in the truck.)  But the pastor would probably lock his away in his office before any ceremony.

 

It's been a fascinating thread.

My young men are coming from a background of 20 years active duty Army; one of my young men from that background is currently active duty. I'm not sure what very good indication you derive from that.

 

No. No freak out here. Lots of concealed carry in my family. No shotguns and no trucks though. Just handguns.

 

It has been a fascinating thread.

[jessicalb]

I agree and my dh wears a gun in a holster about 90% of the time around our farm.  He would not remove the holster/gun for someone coming to pickup one of our dd's, but he definitely would not be cleaning the gun or pull it from the holster.  

 

Wearing or carrying a gun is normal here.  I cannot imagine it shocking any boy who came to our home.  The reason dh wears it around the farm is because we live in an area with LOTS of rattlesnakes and copperheads.

 

This is what rational gun ownership looks like.

[JuanitaL]

Nobody cleans loaded guns.  

Googling "accidental shooting while cleaning guns" brings up pages and pages of dead kids, dead siblings, dead neighbors, etc.

[SKL]

nm

[JuanitaL]

Although a good alternative might be a first date at the firing range...she can show her abilities herself. (my first date with my hubby was at the firing range, but nto for that reason. I had never shot a gun and wanted to know how after seeing too many bad movies where the bad guy drops the gun and the girl doesn't know how to use it.)

My first date with my husband - he took me to get a tattoo. I had just finished basic training and we were in AIT together. Never a need for a date at the firing range, we both regularly had weapons qualifications with our units.  

 

I agree with you that a good alternative is for the girl to actually be able to take care of herself (which I think starts with the quality of boy she accepts a date with - seems like that should render this scenario a moot point - why would dad feel the need to threaten and intimidate someone she's chosen after he's instilled her with their family values and culture?) 

[SKL]

OK so for those of you who actually think this is a threat:  how many recent incidences of fathers shooting boyfriends have you heard of?  Because there are many people who do some version of the "dare mess with my daughter" thing, especially symbolically.  Either the "threats" are working, or they aren't actual threats, and everybody knows it.

 

As for joking about violence, gimme a break.  You probably don't even notice you're doing it.  Who hasn't said "he needs a kick in the pants" and many other "violent" comments that nobody really thinks are threats?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I had left this thread because it didn't seem to be that big an issue to me but someone quoted me so I came back for another look.  

After skimming through the rest of the thread, my opinion is:

 

The OPs scenario was vague to me because it was 3rd hand - her talking to a friend who was talking about her son's experience (it was his actual experience wasn't it and not  hypothetical?  I don't want to take the time to look - I'm supposed to be looking at Physics videos.)

 

I don't like threats - implied or otherwise.  The scenario was vague to me in that it was unclear as to if it was a threat or not.  We don't necessarily stop all of our chores when a teen's friend comes to the house.  We just sort of go on as we are and invite people in and talk as we are doing things.  But we're pretty casual.  

 

We are very careful when dealing with firearms.  We take gun safety very seriously.  We don't clean loaded weapons.  I can't speak for anyone else but it is stupid if they did.  

 

The scenario is a bit hard for me to take too seriously because it is 4th hand for me!  And because I just can't imagine this happening to us in real life.  The gun owners we know don't joke around with them.  The adults in general that we know aren't too uptight and joke around verbally but at the same time don't give anyone the third degree either.  So. . . I'm going to bow out again, unless someone quotes me, in which case I'll get curious and pop in again.  

[Kathryn]

So. . . I'm going to bow out again, unless someone quotes me, in which case I'll get curious and pop in again.

Made you look :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

Made you look :D

You did!  And I'm supposed to be looking at Physics lectures!!!!  Bad Kathryn!  (Notice that I'm not taking any responsibility for my own clicking on this. . . )

[saraha]

When I started this thread, I knew there would be two different opinions, just like my friend and I had. I didn't (but should have) think that it would devolve into arguments, that shows my naivete.

I think the dad probably did it as sort of a dare to himself, to make a joke. He never acted threatening or made veiled threats. He talked politely, firmly laid out his expectations for behavior on the date, and left it at that. Now he can go to work and tell his story to his buddies and have a good laugh. My friend, whose son we are talking about, said that the implication of the gun was clearly received by her son. These kids go to public school, so it is not unusual that the families don't really know each other. The son was nervous, mostly about the car breaking down and getting back late, but that he had a nice time and there was no incident when he walked the girl to the door, where her mom was waiting. My friend feels upset by this man either 1. threatening her son or 2. using her son as the but of a joke. Either way, she feels he was disrespected. Interestingly though, her husband didn't think it was a big deal, just a guy making a point in the way he felt best to communicate, and the disrespect on her son's behalf is just part of male posturing and development. I guess to use the animal analogy, that the pup was shown his place by the alpha dog in this situation.

I have to say, I originally felt like it was no big deal, just a dad goofing around, but I get the point about the disrespect. I also get the point about pups and alpha males, having seen my son and his male cousins challenge their dads and granddad to different little contests to see who could come out the winner. A nonviolent acting out of a challenge. Up until this point dad and granddad have won out. So while I still wouldn't be too upset about this particular scenario (no one threatened anyone's genitals, etc) I now also see how it was insulting to the boy and his parents.

[JuanitaL]

OK so for those of you who actually think this is a threat:  how many recent incidences of fathers shooting boyfriends have you heard of?  Because there are many people who do some version of the "dare mess with my daughter" thing, especially symbolically.  Either the "threats" are working, or they aren't actual threats, and everybody knows it.

 

As for joking about violence, gimme a break.  You probably don't even notice you're doing it.  Who hasn't said "he needs a kick in the pants" and many other "violent" comments that nobody really thinks are threats?

For some reason I can't seem to copy&paste an outside link, but after googling, I did see two incidences this year (one in March, one in April) in Oregon where the dad shot the boyfriend when he caught them having sex - one girl was 15, one woman was 40. Both dads are facing criminal charges.

 

Now I'm thinking that if it can happen in Oregon (which seemed kind of a happy/hippie place to me), it could happen anywhere.

[unsinkable]

 

As for joking about violence, gimme a break.  You probably don't even notice you're doing it.  Who hasn't said "he needs a kick in the pants" and many other "violent" comments that nobody really thinks are threats?

 

I make a conscious effort not to joke about violence. I'm sure I've done it and I consider it a failure on my part when I do.

[JuanitaL]

 I don't want to take the time to look - I'm supposed to be looking at Physics videos.)

 

So. . . I'm going to bow out again, unless someone quotes me, in which case I'll get curious and pop in again.  

I'm supposed to be reading my Epistemology book ...

 

 

(I tried the cold-brewed coffee from the thread the other day, it is much stronger than I'm used to drinking and I put too much into my drink. I'm feeling pretty jittery and doing this is much easier than trying to read that book.)

[twoxcell]

 

Now I'm thinking that if it can happen in Oregon (which seemed kind of a happy/hippie place to me), it could happen anywhere.

Happy/Hippie place :lol: . It depends on what part of Oregon we are talking about here. There are definitely a lot of hunter/pro gun owners in the rural areas. ;) I have no idea if this dad was a hunter or not.

[WishboneDawn]

I think this conversation is skewed by the "men are from mars, women are from venus" phenomenon. Males talk and listen differently from females. Between men, a wordless symbol may be the best way to get an important point across. I think that if this conversation were being had by men (assuming they were not an anti-gun group to begin with), it would go differently.

Eh. That's less true then it once was. A lot of men have been raised differently and the old neat and tidy cubby holes don't apply anymore, if they ever did. I think appealing to that is reaching a bit regardless. A lot of men might be more comfortable about it, not because of some gender communication difference, but simply because it's been hooked about and is a right of passage they expected they might have to go through.

 

I honestly don't know how I'd feel. Probably ticked because my sons are MY babies and no one should be pulling that on my babies. But given a bit of distance and some time to get to know the father it might be knee of those things we laughed about later. I do think it could be red flag and I'd talk to my son about things to watch for in the father. Could be nothing though.

[SKL]

For some reason I can't seem to copy&paste an outside link, but after googling, I did see two incidences this year (one in March, one in April) in Oregon where the dad shot the boyfriend when he caught them having sex - one girl was 15, one woman was 40. Both dads are facing criminal charges.

 

Now I'm thinking that if it can happen in Oregon (which seemed kind of a happy/hippie place to me), it could happen anywhere.

 

Well, there were at least two incidents of boyfriends killing fathers in recent news also, so I'd say that's pretty low.  And, we don't know whether the dads in your examples cleaned their shotguns before the first date.

 

I think you get my point.  I hope.  Of course there are tens of thousands of passion killings in the US every year.  That doesn't mean every symbolic reference to a gun is a threat.

 

However, I wanted to say (not in response to you) that I could totally understand a more negative reaction if one was brought up in a culture where guns are generally bad and scary.  Like in the inner city etc.  In the culture I was raised in, guns were not ever, ever even pointed at human beings in play.  So they just don't raise that kind of feeling when someone sees them in any context.  Especially a shotgun, which would be an extremely inefficient and ineffective "murder" weapon anyway.

 

ETA, I just realized it does not say this was a "shotgun," just an unspecified "gun," which might make a difference.

[ktgrok]

Actually, that is not what anything I have read on the subject supports. Nor is it my view of humanity.

 

In general, good people don't do bad things that hurt other people because they know it is wrong to hurt other people. And people who are prepared to break laws and hurt other people simply because they want to do so generally do not believe they will be caught. Fear of punishment is usually just a stage children go through until they internalize appropriate behavior.

More what I meant was someone doesn't rob MY house, with it's security system, big dogs, etc etc because that alarm may go off or dogs may bark and they will get caught and go to jail, which they do not want. They choose a house where they feel they can get away with it, and not get caught and go to jail. The jail is the reason they decide to hedge their bets and choose the least risky target. In the example of the gun the father is making sure his daughter is not the least risky target. Because jail alone isn't much of a factor, given how badly rape is handled by the judicial system.

 

Again, my husband has no intention of ACTUALLY shooting anyone, because as some said, that means he wouldn't be here to care for his kids and wife. But the idea that he might, he figures that is a deterrent. Also, I have big scary looking dogs. They won't ACTUALLY attack anyone, but someone breaking in doesn't know that, and the thought that they might is enough to help deter burglars, I hope.

[ktgrok]

Why wouldn't kind, intelligent, peaceful dad be more inclined to either know the type of boy who is dating his daughter, or not allow his under 18 daughter to go out with someone he thought would date rape her?

how in the heck does a dad know who or who will NOT rape his daughter? Do rapists now have bar codes on their foreheads? plenty of women have been raped by men that everyone thought were totally safe. There is no way to really know.

[JuanitaL]

 In the example of the gun the father is making sure his daughter is not the least risky target. Because jail alone isn't much of a factor, given how badly rape is handled by the judicial system.

 

Again, my husband has no intention of ACTUALLY shooting anyone, because as some said, that means he wouldn't be here to care for his kids and wife. But the idea that he might, he figures that is a deterrent.

So to sum up some of the possible scenarios (I think) Dad on the front porch with a gun is:

A threatening deterrent against would-be rapists

A jokester

A guy just cleaning his gun, maybe he just went hunting (mom probably has squirrel brains frying in the pan - I added that part, Duck Dynasty)

A guy who likes to make threats, but that's as far as it goes

Some kind of cultural symbolism/imagery

A jerk to point out to your boys as a way not to treat other humans

 

To repeat a previous poster, this has been an interesting thread.

[JuanitaL]

how in the heck does a dad know who or who will NOT rape his daughter? Do rapists now have bar codes on their foreheads? plenty of women have been raped by men that everyone thought were totally safe. There is no way to really know.

You're right. It's a lot easier to just suspect every 16-17 year old kid is going to rape your daughter. There's no way to really know.

 

[MusicMama]

I think it's kind of funny that someone would actually do it, like the joke. I'd think he had a good sense of humor, not that he was threatening to kill my son.

A gun is a tool, a dangerous one that can kill and maim if not handeled with care, caution and skill.  It is not a prop for a joke.  

[ktgrok]

I think that utter bull.  A teacher, a minister, a babysitter, a trusted cousin, a coach are the most likely sources of molestation for children. Does your husband make veiled threats to all of them too?   Or is it, it's "acceptable" to threaten a daughter's date due to the cheap joke so he'll just do it then?

Actually, he just won't leave his child alone with any of the above, because they are the most likely to molest a child. Not ever. The only babysitter is my mother, and at church they are two deep at all times.

 

But for a teenage girl, a teenage boy she is alone with is definitely a risk...hence the phrase "date rape". Been there, done that, got the tshirt thank you very much. It is a real risk to me.

[ktgrok]

My first date with my husband - he took me to get a tattoo. I had just finished basic training and we were in AIT together. Never a need for a date at the firing range, we both regularly had weapons qualifications with our units.  

 

I agree with you that a good alternative is for the girl to actually be able to take care of herself (which I think starts with the quality of boy she accepts a date with - seems like that should render this scenario a moot point - why would dad feel the need to threaten and intimidate someone she's chosen after he's instilled her with their family values and culture?)

If you think you can tell casually if someone would date rape or not, you are mistaken. Or are much better at this than anyone else. I can assure you that the idiot that date raped me still has everyone believing he would NEVER do such a thing...he's a "nice guy". Whatever.

[twoxcell]

 

But for a teenage girl, a teenage boy she is alone with is definitely a risk...hence the phrase "date rape". Been there, done that, got the tshirt thank you very much. It is a real risk to me.

Do you think seeing a gun cleaning would prevent it? I'm thinking it would be better protection to just not allow one on one alone dates for teens.

[ktgrok]

You're right. It's a lot easier to just suspect every 16-17 year old kid is going to rape your daughter. There's no way to really know.

I know you meant that sarcastically, but I actually do feel that way. Having been on the receiving end of it, and known many women that also were, it is just that real to me.

[JuanitaL]

I know you meant that sarcastically, but I actually do feel that way. Having been on the receiving end of it, and known many women that also were, it is just that real to me.

What kind of an affect does that level of wide-sweeping fear have on your 14 y/o son? 16 is just around the corner.

 

I hear where you're coming from, but how will you feel when one of the many women you know who have had the same experience project that on him?

[wingedradical]

I am not anti-gun. I had guns when i lived in a rural area and I have friends in the city who carry (a friend who is  a real estate agent, others). But carrying a gun is not on the same level as making threats with one, which is basically what men who do this are doing. I don't think it is appropriate and I sure don't find it funny . I do find it disrespectful to both the daughter and any man who dates her.

 

Yes, people have been raped by people who seem normal. Girls have been seduced by boys from church or homeschool group. And I understand how a woman who has been raped may feel a sense of fear, But really,folks, most men do not rape. Many men will seduce if given the chance but that is something you teach your daughter to withstand (and your sons not to do).. If you don't trust your daughter to say no, then you should spend more time with your daughter building a relationship and less time cleaning your gun. 

 

And btw, girls seduce boys, too. And what are these fathers doing to protect their boys' purity? 

 

I knew several men who have threatened this, one who maybe did it (said he did) when i lived in the Ozarks. All these men were patriarchal in their attitudes. One poster said people with guns want to protect their possessions. Well, daughters are not possessions. Rapists and seducers treat women like objects. Fathers like this are treating their daughters like objects, too.

 

I am not saying fathers should not try to protect their children. But you protect them by teaching and modeling character - or if you think it necessary, teach them some martial arts.. Self-defense isn't wrong. Being careful about who your children associate with at a young age isn't wrong. But resorting to violent threats out of fear or (and this is more likely in my experience) because you feel it is your job to control your family, is. My next door neighbor "could" turn postal and come over and massacre my family. I have no reason to think so, but he could. So am I going to answer my door holding a gun on him every time he comes to borrow sugar? I don't think so.If I had any real reason to suspect him, that might be another matter.

 

 

[wingedradical]

I am not anti-gun. I had guns when i lived in a rural area and I have friends in the city who carry (a friend who is  a real estate agent, others). But carrying a gun is not on the same level as making threats with one, which is basically what men who do this are doing. I don't think it is appropriate and I sure don't find it funny . I do find it disrespectful to both the daughter and any man who dates her.

 

Yes, people have been raped by people who seem normal. Girls have been seduced by boys from church or homeschool group. And I understand how a woman who has been raped may feel a sense of fear, But really,folks, most men do not rape. Many men will seduce if given the chance but that is something you teach your daughter to withstand (and your sons not to do).. If you don't trust your daughter to say no, then you should spend more time with your daughter building a relationship and less time cleaning your gun. 

 

And btw, girls seduce boys, too. And what are these fathers doing to protect their boys' purity? 

 

I knew several men who have threatened this, one who maybe did it (said he did) when i lived in the Ozarks. All these men were patriarchal in their attitudes. One poster said people with guns want to protect their possessions. Well, daughters are not possessions. Rapists and seducers treat women like objects. Fathers like this are treating their daughters like objects, too.

 

I am not saying fathers should not try to protect their children. But you protect them by teaching and modeling character - or if you think it necessary, teach them some martial arts.. Self-defense isn't wrong. Being careful about who your children associate with at a young age isn't wrong. But resorting to violent threats out of fear or (and this is more likely in my experience) because you feel it is your job to control your family, is. My next door neighbor "could" turn postal and come over and massacre my family. I have no reason to think so, but he could. So am I going to answer my door holding a gun on him every time he comes to borrow sugar? I don't think so.If I had any real reason to suspect him, that might be another matter. But if I had any reason to suspect a boy coming to pick up my daughter, she wouldn't be going out with him in the first place.

 

 

[Jennifer3141]

 

How would you feel/react to your son showing up to pick up a girl for a date to find her father sitting on the porch cleaning a gun? Father was nice and polite, but laid out some ground rules for the date before they could leave.

 

I have taught my children to leave the presence of anyone with a gun because there are a TON of freaked out stupid people with guns right now. You can't throw a rock on the internet without reading about some moron who blew his own head off or his kid's head off while cleaning a gun. That's a special kind of stupid right there.

 

So if my son pulled up and saw that, I would expect him to get in his car and come home and woe onto him if I ever found out otherwise.

 

And we are a gun owning family. We do not however, take it for granted in other people's homes. If I had no idea what this guy was like and he did that in front of my child, then my child would not be allowed over there or have contact with that family EVER.

 

And I would truly wonder about anyone who thought an overt threat against my child's life was appropriate. These are not the type of people I would want my children around.

[Corraleno]

If you don't trust your daughter to say no, then you should spend more time with your daughter building a relationship and less time cleaning your gun. 

...

I knew several men who have threatened this, one who maybe did it (said he did) when i lived in the Ozarks. All these men were patriarchal in their attitudes. One poster said people with guns want to protect their possessions. Well, daughters are not possessions. Rapists and seducers treat women like objects. Fathers like this are treating their daughters like objects, too.

 

:iagree:

 

 

As for the idea that stunts like this are just normal "alpha male" stuff that all men do.... um, no. Not ALL men feel the need to get into pissing contests or prove who has the biggest balls. And frankly, if a guy needs a gun in order to convince a teenage boy that Daddy's balls are bigger, then maybe his balls aren't as big as he thinks.

 

Jackie

[ktgrok]

What kind of an affect does that level of wide-sweeping fear have on your 14 y/o son? 16 is just around the corner.

 

I hear where you're coming from, but how will you feel when one of the many women you know who have had the same experience project that on him?

He fully expects it. Until he proves himself otherwise anyway. He has already had a "girlfriend" (they don't go on dates), and her father is in the Sherriff's department. Trust me, he already got the vibe of "better be careful with my daughter". And he will probably be harder on his sister's dates than anyone else will.

[ktgrok]

My next door neighbor "could" turn postal and come over and massacre my family. I have no reason to think so, but he could. So am I going to answer my door holding a gun on him every time he comes to borrow sugar? I don't think so.If I had any real reason to suspect him, that might be another matter.

I believe the stats are that one in four women is raped. If one in four families had a neighbor show up "postal" on their doorstep yes I would at least have a gun nearby when letting them in. Luckily, that is no where near the case.

[Guest inoubliable]

I know you meant that sarcastically, but I actually do feel that way. Having been on the receiving end of it, and known many women that also were, it is just that real to me.

 

I understand you've got some history of your own with date rape and I'm sorry you do. 

Honestly, though, the fact that you think every 16-17 year old boy is a potential rapist is offensive to this mom of three boys. 

[ktgrok]

I understand you've got some history of your own with date rape and I'm sorry you do. 

Honestly, though, the fact that you think every 16-17 year old boy is a potential rapist is offensive to this mom of three boys.

Maybe I'm unclear? I don't think that every boy could rape. I think that some boys are rapists, and some are not (most are not), but I can't tell by looking which are which. So I assume most boys are very nice young men. I just don't assume that I can tell for sure.

[Supertechmom]

:iagree:

 

 

As for the idea that stunts like this are just normal "alpha male" stuff that all men do.... um, no. Not ALL men feel the need to get into pissing contests or prove who has the biggest balls. And frankly, if a guy needs a gun in order to convince a teenage boy that Daddy's balls are bigger, then maybe his balls aren't as big as he thinks.

 

Jackie

 

 

From our experience so far with this mindset, it is NOT about protecting their daughter. It is all about who is going to be boss dog.    Caring about the daughter is just an veiled excuse to see who has the biggest balls.   Not the man or family  i want my sons to commit to forever.  They will get enough of that stupidity in their careers.  They don't need to be in a pissing contest until he is dead.