Long time hsers, what changes have you noticed?

[mothergooseof4]

For me, I have noticed a change in the do-it-yourself attitude of the hsers in my area. When I first started, thirteen years ago, everyone in our support group did school at home. Most taught things themselves. If they didn't know how to teach something, they learned or found a resource that could be used at home. Some did videos or online courses, but it was in their home. Our support group was just that, a support group. There were meetings for moms, field trips, park day, etc. They have started a small co-op just to survive because participation had dwindled. I see more and more families signing their kids up for tutoring, CC, or looking to add more co-op style classes. We are in a rural area, so most of these are driving long distances to attend such classes. I really have no problem with outsourcing in theory, but what I see as sad is that most of the parents that I know are doing this because they feel unqualified to teach their kids. When I started this journey, most had the same attitude that I still have: If I don't know how to teach it, I better start studying myself.

 

I have also noticed a trend of high schoolers doing dual credit courses. There is a big push here to have your dc earn their associates degree while finishing high school. Most of the hsers with teens that were around when I started were wanting to teach their kids themselves during these years. They wanted to be the primary influence.

 

I guess overall, I would just say that when I started, most of the hsers that I knew were doing it because they thought they could do a better job. Now, I see the mentality being, "I don't want my kids in ps, but I either don't feel qualified or don't want to worry with educating them myself."

 

***Bold added because while I don't have a problem with outsourcing to help when parents honestly don't know how (a certain interest of the dc is just way out of the parent's knowledge base), or they simply don't have time (have many kids to teach), I find it sad that many seem to be falling into this trend out of fear. As then trend grows, more and more of the hsers in my area seem to be doubting their abilities and placing their kids in various outside classes simply because the trend itself is convincing them that someone else can do it better.

 

So, what changes have you seen in during your hsing career?

[Mom0012]

How long have you been homeschooling? I've been doing it for about 8 years, so I don't know if that would be considered long, but what I have found is that most of the people I know, including myself, have done almost everything at home until they start to hit the late middle to high school years.

 

For one of my children, I want him to have a group of kids that he gets to be with one day a week, so we are taking a couple of classes at 2 different coops this year to see where he feels he fits in. I had planned on getting him involved in a coop for high school since he was in kindergarten, though. The only outsourced class he's had up until now has been a writing class.

 

For my dd, she took her first outsourced classes in 5th grade -- the same outstanding writing class my son has been taking, and a Latin class that I took with her, and an online Spanish class. She is very bright and eager to learn and she has an interest in languages, so next year, she will be continuing with the classes we outsourced, because I am not qualified to teach them to her beyond the elementary level. I did 3 years of elementary Spanish with her. As I said, I do take the Latin class with her and I sit with her through the online Spanish class since it is a high school class, and I want to learn with her. Oh, and since we will already be on site for the Latin class and my son will be taking additional classes at the same location, she's also going to take a literature class that she's really looking forward to and we're going to get to stay and have lunch with the rest of the group.

 

So, I wonder if part of what you are seeing is that as kids get older, more outsourcing is done because it is hard to teach a language you don't know at home or do science labs? I'm sure part of it is that there are just so many more opportunities than there were in the past. I get what you are saying, but I see it as a good thing. My dd loved her classes this year and I'm still working with her more than ever. I'm glad I've been able to homeschool my kids, but it's really refreshing when we can find a class with an excellent teacher who is an expert in her area and can really generate enthusiasm.

[Heidi]

I think it has a lot to do with why more people are homeschooling these days. I know a lot of families that homeschool because of the poor social atmosphere of the schools, as well as the poor education they are receiving in public school. Moms that normally would have happily sent their children to school 15 years ago are feeling compelling to homeschool today. They're doing because they feel they have to, but they don't really want to. That has been my observation anyway.

[Crimson Wife]

I've only been HSing 6 years but I've noticed that more and more HSers I know IRL seem to be using PS textbooks and are really worried about following state/Common Core standards. I'm not talking about people who are doing short-term HSing with the intent of returning their child to PS in a year or two or those who are enrolled in a charter program. I really don't get it. While there are certainly some decent textbooks written for the PS market (Singapore math, Saxon, etc.) most of the textbooks on the state-approved list are pretty abysmal compared with the programs that were designed with HSers in mind.

[Ellie]

We started hsing in 1982.

 

What I have noticed more than anything else is the proliferation of age-segregated, classroom-based "co-ops" for all ages, which teach everything, even those things which parents can easily teach on their own. Parents have looked me in the eye and told me how they are glad they don't actually need to teach anything at home on their own. o_0 We began homeschooling because we believed teaching our own children at home was valuable.

 

More recently are the charter schools, which suck people out of private homeschooling into public-school-at-home, because they get stuff for "free." And that's all I have to say about that.

[mrs.m]

Yes, it is changing but I think the perception of some of the "old timers" is way off. I appreciate the road that has been paved for us to make choices. To say those decisions are generally based on fear is very inaccurate and shows a lack of understanding behind some of the programs we choose to participate in. Many of us are still sitting at the kitchen table with our students and learning material so that we can teach it next week, month, or year (yes, even those of us enrolled in CC). We aren't just trusting someone else to educate our children and know that we will do the best job. But really the tutor's job in CC is to facilitate peer discussion and presentations, not to teach. Teaching is the parents' job. Also, some people just don't want to do it alone. I love that I have friends to call that are struggling through the exact same materials or have the perfect idea to get my DS over that academic hump because they've been there with that same curriculum. It isn't always about feeling like we can't teach it or being afraid that we can't figure it out. ..... And the cost of college keeps going up, why not dual credit and spread some of that out over 5-7 years? I really only see this trend around here to get in the lab courses required for graduation.

[Ellie]

Many of us in California in the early 90s enrolled our dc in community colleges for high school-level courses. In fact, the first CHEA convention in 1984 had a workshop on high school, and the speaker was a proponent of community college instead of high school. :-)

[mothergooseof4]

How long have you been homeschooling?

 

 

13 years

 

I think it has a lot to do with why more people are homeschooling these days. I know a lot of families that homeschool because of the poor social atmosphere of the schools, as well as the poor education they are receiving in public school. Moms that normally would have happily sent their children to school 15 years ago are feeling compelling to homeschool today. They're doing because they feel they have to, but they don't really want to. That has been my observation anyway.

 

 

I think this is partly true. I know many that are hsing because their dc were not well served in ps, but hey didn't really have a desire to do it themselves either.

 

We started hsing in 1982.

 

What I have noticed more than anything else is the proliferation of age-segregated, classroom-based "co-ops" for all ages, which teach everything, even those things which parents can easily teach on their own. Parents have looked me in the eye and told me how they are glad they don't actually need to teach anything at home on their own. o_0 We began homeschooling because we believed teaching our own children at home was valuable.

 

More recently are the charter schools, which suck people out of private homeschooling into public-school-at-home, because they get stuff for "free." And that's all I have to say about that.

 

 

I will admit that more than one of the moms that I know that doesn't think she can teach her dc is probably just not wanting to study up to do it herself.

 

Yes, it is changing but I think the perception of some of the "old timers" is way off. I appreciate the road that has been paved for us to make choices. To say those decisions are generally based on fear is very inaccurate and shows a lack of understanding behind some of the programs we choose to participate in. Many of us are still sitting at the kitchen table with our students and learning material so that we can teach it next week, month, or year (yes, even those of us enrolled in CC). We aren't just trusting someone else to educate our children and know that we will do the best job. But really the tutor's job in CC is to facilitate peer discussion and presentations, not to teach. Teaching is the parents' job. Some people just don't want to do it alone. I love that I have friends to call that are struggling through the exact same materials or has the perfect idea to get my DS over that academic hump because they've been there with that same curriculum. It isn't always about feeling like we can't teach it or being afraid that we can't figure it out. ..... And the cost of college keeps going up, why not dual credit and spread some of that out over 5-7 years? I really only see this trend around here to get in the lab courses required for graduation.

 

 

And this is why I highlighted the fact that I was speaking of the hsers that I personally know. I have had conversations with them. They are my close personal friends whom I have known for many years. We socialize together, attend church together, live life together. I know them. Their decisions are often based on fear of not doing it well enough because they see so many hsers joining up with co-ops and such. Or in one dear friend's case, her dh has never been convinced that hsing can provide what an institution can, so he insists that their kids be in every class/co-op/club offered.

[mothergooseof4]

oops...double post

[Penelope]

What I have noticed more than anything else is the proliferation of age-segregated, classroom-based "co-ops" for all ages, which teach everything, even those things which parents can easily teach on their own. Parents have looked me in the eye and told me how they are glad they don't actually need to teach anything at home on their own. o_0 We began homeschooling because we believed teaching our own children at home was valuable.

 

 

 

I am not a long-timer, but I wondered about this.

 

I do understand outsourcing classes here and there for older children, or early college classes for high schoolers. What I still do not understand is using a co-op for most classes, where the teachers are moms with no special knowledge in the area who are there only once per week, and many of the classes are video-based.

[8filltheheart]

There have been several of these conversations recently and in the past. I found one of the threads from the high school board that was started by Nan.

 

http://forums.welltr...n-like-ps-ones/

 

Here is another one that was about the impact of Classical Conversations and co-ops on local support groups:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/470873-how-is-classical-conversations-impacting-your-local-hs-community/

 

I know there have been others, like the entire breadth vs. depth discussion discusses it tangentially.

http://forums.welltr...e__hl__+breadth

and its spin offs (if you search titles only for "breadth vs" you will find several)

 

But, from my perspective, homeschooling has definitely morphed.

[Ellie]

I have also noticed a trend of high schoolers doing dual credit courses. There is a big push here to have your dc earn their associates degree while finishing high school. Most of the hsers with teens that were around when I started were wanting to teach their kids themselves during these years. They wanted to be the primary influence.

 

 

I didn't address this as specifically as I might have. :-)

 

This is not a "trend." This has been going on almost since the beginning, at least in California, where the requirements to enroll in c.c. are primarily that students be able to show up and do the work--no transcript, no SAT/ACT, etc.--and where tuition is crazy inexpensive. Parents indeed wanted to be their dc's primary influence, but most figured that by the time their dc were 14-16yo, they had been their dc's primary influence long enough that allowing the dc to take two or three courses at the c.c. wouldn't damage what had been achieved relationship-wise. Also, back in the day, we weren't talking about AP classes, or CLEP, or any other route to college that newer hses have been able to figure out, and California c.c. transfer students are guaranteed to be admitted to CalState and UC campuses, ahead of high school grads; most private colleges accept c.c. transfer students, as well. For us, the c.c. was the best route to college (and even if not for college, it was considered an excellent way to get lab sciences and higher maths).

[mrs.m]

 

I will admit that more than one of the moms that I know that doesn't think she can teach her dc is probably just not wanting to study up to do it herself.

 

 

 

And this is why I highlighted the fact that I was speaking of the hsers that I personally know. I have had conversations with them. They are my close personal friends whom I have known for many years. We socialize together, attend church together, live life together. I know them. Their decisions are often based on fear of not doing it well enough because they see so many hsers joining up with co-ops and such. Or in one dear friend's case, her dh has never been convinced that hsing can provide what an institution can, so he insists that their kids be in every class/co-op/club offered.

you are only talking about a small sampling but seem to still want to indicate that it is a trend. The increased enrollment is accurate but I think the reasons are far more varied among those enrolling. If your question was about these few that your know and you tried to encourage them without results, then it really might come down to, "I can, but I really don't want to do the work to get to that point," But for some parents that's harder to voice than "I can't". And I'm not sure that I even see a problem with that as a choice for that type of parent. But I don't think the over all "I can't teach" so I'll enroll in a co-op or CC is a trend.

[mrs.m]

Ps, now I'm tempted to survey my CC community. 😉 I could be wrong!!! But among my friends, they really dig into the material and have no fear of teaching their children!

[momma2three]

Could it just be that there are more homeschoolers, so it's easier to find a group that does what you want to? And if there's a group that happens to fit your goals and expectations, and you're homeschooling for educational reasons, why reinvent the wheel when somebody else is doing just what you want?

 

I'm really grateful for all the homeschooling pioneers who did what they had to do, and created the homeschooling movement, and sparked all the various different homeschooling paths that I think many of us newbies take for granted. But I'm also happy to have the option to outsource what I can. It's not that I don't think I can do it (I think I can teach just about everything DD is learning next year but Spanish), it's just that I don't think I personally see the point in doing it myself when I do think that someone else can do it better, for not much money, and give me a chance to go to run errands and clean and go to doctors appts and do the things that I need to do.

 

Just another perspective from one of the new homeschoolers, who is actually outsourcing an awful lot next year. But this amazing little cottage school just opened up that really fits my ideal of how an education should look, with an AMAZING teacher, and I want her to have lots of time with other kids, so I signed my daughter up for a few days a week there.

[TracyP]

Not a long timer, just adding .02.

 

I plan to utilize the dual enrollment program my state has. It is not something I 100% want to do, but since the first 2 years at any state college and most private colleges will be paid for, I don't know how I can pass it up.

 

The co-op thing is interesting. Several years ago when I heard about co-ops, I was completely baffled. The person was telling me how she had her kids take science and writing (iirc) at co-op and it was great because now there were 2 subjects she didn't have to teach. I felt like we were speaking different languages...

 

Some moms get together but there are no co-ops around me, so it is not a trend everywhere.

 

That does remind me, though, one of the hs moms (w/ a teaching degree) would like to start a charter school. She assumed we would all like to send our kids there and was disappointed when she realized that most of us would not. Again, we were on completely different pages. I imagine that there are a lot more varied reasons for homeschooling than there used to be.

[HS Mom in NC]

13 years.

 

I've seen the same increase in outsourcing mostly among parents whose kids spent some time in ps and were pulled out to be homeschooled. I think it may be due to the former ps parent and ps student expecting a higher rate of peer interaction on a daily basis and people for whom homeschooling wasn't their first choice to begin with, so they're looking for something more hands off. I think it's always good to have more options available so more people have have their wants and needs met.

 

I also understand why there is debate about whether or not paid co-ops with one or two teachers should be legally considered a homeschooling option vs. a private school option. I think it's strategically smarter to call it a private school option since most are paid for (as opposed to a traditional co-op where all the parents divide up the teaching and only charge for supplies) because that's what they are and they need more publicity so other ps parents who don't want to homeschool or who might be willing to homeschool full time know there are private options out there that don't involve full time enrollment or full time tuition. Some ps parents looking for alternatives may dismiss it when it's called a homeschool co-op because I think most people assume 1) it's happening in the child's home 2) the parent is doing some or all of the teaching.

 

I am surprised by the number of people whose children attend multiple co-ops who use the phrase "I homeschool my kids." Maybe they say this because of how they're legally classified? I don't know. My husband never used the phrase "We homeschool" or "I homeschool" until he actually started doing the teaching himself in math and science in the Jr. High and Sr. High years in our homeschool. Until then he said, "My wife homeschools our kids." I never said I was homeschooling until I started teaching academic subjects. Until then I used the phrase, "I'm going to homeschool my kids." I also specified that I didn't homeschool music, art and PE. I say, "I hire teachers for music, art, PE." They attend art and PE classes that are open only to homeschoolers due to the time of day. I cringe when I hear people say things like, "Every parent homeschools even if they send their kids to ps full time." Homeschooling and parenting are different.

 

As to community college- My 17 and 15 year olds begin community college in the fall. They're not doing dual enrollment, they're just taking college classes. I can issue them a homeschool high school diploma at my discretion. As I understand it, dual enrollment is for getting the state issued high school diploma. My husband took and passed Calculus in college, but he made it clear he wouldn't relearn Calculus just to teach it to our kids. I'm not going to learn it while I'm homeschooling my 7 year old. My 15 year old tested into college level calculus. The community college is 10 minutes away. They both still live at home so we are going to still be a very strong influence. The 15 year old also wants to take college level chemistry. Why bother with high school chemistry when she's perfectly capable of and interested in taking it on a higher level and getting credit for it? She's interested in biomedical engineering and genetics and she wants hard core college level math and science classes. She'll be 16 3 months after she starts.

 

My oldest wants to get her doula certification and apprentice with a homebirth midwife. That life involves being on call 24/7 and not on any predictable schedule. I wanted her to have a classroom experience first hand before she makes any decisions so she's more certain of her choice. So, we had her choose community college classes that interested her for this one semester. She'll be 18 right after the semester ends. Then, if she does the doula then midwife thing, great. If she chooses something else involving college or some other job training, that's great too.

[SarahW]

I was homeschooled starting in 1988 in K, so if you'll excuse my fuzzy memories...

 

I think back then there were limited choices. I remember stopping in to the curriculum fair of a local conference with my mom, and there were about 5 or so tables. BJU, ABeka, and Other. Teacher Editions were sold for everything, as most of those were originally written to be used in Christian school classrooms. I think back then you had to choose curriculum knowing that there would be a heavy teacher load.

 

Around 4th grade (so 1992?) my brother and I were enrolled in a co-op. We took ASL, Recorder, and science classes, and maybe a few other things. It was all "extras" I'm pretty sure, there weren't any math or writing classes offered. If they were we would have been signed up for that instead, I think.

 

The co-op was rather far away (45 mins). It was very heavily utilized. I think the classes averaged at least 15 kids, I think some of my classes had about 25 students. We were broken up my age range, but not particular grades. My brother (two years older) and I were always in the same classroom. It was professionally run, with a building and secretary and so on. But it was a University town, so maybe that was the impetus for its formation?

 

I think we went because there were babies at home at that time. We went for a about a year. I can sort of see how my mom thought it would be best, but I can't imagine travelling 45 mins a couple times a week with a baby and toddler and then having to entertain them for a few hours before driving back. I don't clearly recall what subjects I did at home that year. I guess math.

 

So, in answer to the OP, co-ops did exist "back in the day" but I don't think they offered a complete curriculum. That's quite different from what my youngest sister experienced, who did a cottage school for a while that covered everything, and is now finishing up with K-12.

 

To be perfectly honest, I think my mom burned out on homeschooling with having so many littles around. But she felt so emotionally and personally invested in the idea that she tried to force it to work for a long time. The co-ops and other things could alternately be viewed as something necessary help to fill a small gap, or as something that enabled an overall unhealthy situation to carry past its natural end. I'm not entirely sure if it was all about one or the other, and I lived it, I'm just throwing it out there because I understand how people can have both viewpoints.

[Hunter]

The world is different.

 

The average homeschooling parents are different. The mavericks are now a small percentage of the total.

 

The B&M schools that people are rejecting are different.

 

So, of course, how people homeschool is going to be different. Yes, it has changed a LOT. Yes, I do think many, but not all, people are more fearful and less confident. But...maybe many of the mavericks were a little too confident. :lol:

[Ellie]

 

As to community college- My 17 and 15 year olds begin community college in the fall. They're not doing dual enrollment, they're just taking college classes. I can issue them a homeschool high school diploma at my discretion. As I understand it, dual enrollment is for getting the state issued high school diploma.

 

It may end with a diploma (in some states, but not sure that is true in all states). In California, dual enrollment means a student is enrolled in a public or private school *and* is enrolled in the c.c.--dual enrolled. Dual-enrolled students don't usually have to pay tuition. In some states, the number of classes a dual-enrolled student can take is limited (in Texas, it's two per semester). In some states, dual-enrolled students do not earn college credit, although I'm sort of fuzzy on how that whole thing works, lol. In California, it is high school credit, not college credit. When dual-enrolled students "graduate" from high school, they have to take classes equal to the number of dual-enrolled credits they earned. (And this may vary by c.c., too. There does not seem to be an across-the-board policy.)

 

The c.c. my dds attended had a category called "student under 18 not enrolled in high school." (Not all c.c. have this classification.) Those students pay the same tuition as "regular" students, and they earn college credit. That's what my dds did. I didn't need the c.c. to issue a high school diploma. However, my dds taking those classes meant they didn't have to take certain subjects twice--once in high school, again in college (most of the lower-division courses are a repeat of high school).

[Ellie]

Before I began actually homeschooling I was lurking a bunch of different forums and I specifically remember one poster classifying the different types of homeschoolers. The refugees were the ones who tried ps and didn't like something about it so they began homeschooling. I sort of thought if myself as a refugee. If I had the opportunity to send my kids to the best private school in the city I would. So I guess that makes me an educational refugee. Because I can't afford to send my kids to private school and there's no chance they will go into public school, I homeschool. It's turned philosophical for me, I wasn't a homeschooler from the beginning. I enjoy homeschooling my kids (some days more than others) but I do remember the days when I sent off my oldest and I had the whole day to clean and go grocery shopping. ;)

I think many educational refugees are more flexible about school choice. Homeschooling is not so much an ideology for them, just another alternative.

 

Preparing for tomato tossing.

I took my dd out of a private school because I had no faith in the public schools. And then I took her out of the private school because she was a mental mess by Easter vacation of first grade. I guess I started out as a campus-based educational refugee. :-) In fact, when I took her out of school, I said to myself that we were just taking an extra-long summer vacation, that we'd officially be homeschooling in September, and if we were all still normal and we all still liked each other by Christmas, we'd keep going. How's that for commitment? :lol:

 

ITA about the ideology versus alternative. When they choose public school charters, that's when the waters really get muddied.

[shawthorne44]

I think these are parents who are won't normally homeschool, but their public school has scared them away.

We are homeschooling because even as a kid I wished I was. But, for example, just last night I was reading articles on yahoo.com and it really scared me. I am honestly confused why certain people are still alive. So, I can see how people not really INTO the homeschooling idea might be trying to homeschool with as little home as possible.

[CyndiLJ]

Our family enrolled in a public school charter program four years ago, after 5 years of public school. I will admit that I get a little tired of hearing how we are not "real" homeschoolers simply because we elected to go a different route than some have chosen. Jumping off the cliff when no one in our family had ever done so before was scary, and I wanted the support...not just the money. I had kids who just couldn't fit in academically and would have drowned had we remained. Do I have to meet a few standards? Yes, but in all truthfulness we would have tried to meet them anyway, as it is what I feel is appropriate. Do I have to use solely secular materials? Yes, but then I would have done so in all likelihood with a few exceptions anyway. Do we have to take state testing? Yes, but ask me if I care much about the results other than for my own information. Do we get funding? Yes, we do...and I have paid for it for years in taxes so I have a right to it and have not a single qualm about it.

 

We are more like you all than many would like to think, and perhaps far more like you "old timers" than others. I get up every morning and I teach. I teach every single subject to our five kids. I teach special ed, I teach gifted, I teach ELL, I teach regular old stuff. I teach it, I test them, I haul them to a few outside activities...so tell me again how I am so different from you all? Oh yea, we get funding...that somehow makes us not a "real" homeschooler.

 

The escalation of the "Mommy Wars" really doesn't need to extend to our homeschooling choices, does it? I mean, after all, whether a mom homeschools it all, subcontracts it out, or some sort of hybrid...it is all about educational options.

 

Or at least, that is what I thought it was about.

 

I refuse to condemn or judge ANY other parents who make a different choice for their children than I have for mine. After all, most would never do what we have elected to do. As homeschooling and educational choice has grown, even those who do it the so called "traditional" way have benefited with a wider array of materials available, more co-ops if they decide they'd like to utilize them, and more folks to hang out with...that is unless they are deemed somehow "unworthy" because the are part of a charter program, not Christian enough, not rigorous enough...yada yada yada.

 

I get so tired of how we perceive "different" as somehow "worse than" or "bad". But then, it seems that no matter where we turn, there is a hierarchy inflicted upon us all, much to our detriment.

 

May we all have the freedom and liberty to do what we feel called to do for our families without being made to feel as if we are somehow inferior.

 

Signed,

 

A Damned Proud Charter Homeschooling Mom Who DEFINITELY Homeschools, Regardless of What Others Think

[G5052]

Yes, I would say that the whole educational picture has changed, and homeschooling has changed along with it.

 

When we started, the standards movement was just being talked about, and I had no doubt that I'd teach mine all the way through.

 

We weathered the collapse of a large local support group over doctrinal, financial, and legal issues and was part of growth of CC for seven years. In the end we moved away from CC because it wasn't what we wanted for high school.

 

Now we see the results of the standards movement, and I know that I'm not able to teach certain subjects the way I'd like. So I outsource some courses, and don't feel at all bad about that. I'm making the best possible educational choices for mine.

 

I don't know that I'm fearful or upset about what has happened. I'm thankful for having options. Truly!

[Myeightkiddies]

When I started there were five families in the support group, and the support group covered a whole region of the state. My county required a psychologist evaluation on top of what the state required, which was a teacher evaluation. Of course a couple years later they dropped the psych eval. Our choices were limited. Our opportunities were somewhat limited. We were definitely oddballs, and besides having to educate everyone we met on what homeschooling was, it was fine.

 

I may not agree with how people do things nowadays or some of the reasoning for homeschooling, but I'm happy that they have the opportunity to make the choice for themselves. It's nice that counties/states (most of the time) don't impose regulations against the law, and if they do, they get called on it quickly. Personally I don't do co-ops, but if I ever wanted to, they are there.

 

If support groups gathered monthly and addressed certain areas of homeschooling (sharing curriculum pros and cons, scheduling, reporting, hands-on activities, Q & As, etc.) they may be less fear. I think that I see less of those types of meetings nowadays than I did years ago.

[Tress]

Homeschooling only just became legal in our country (yesterday, actually!)

 

 

Congratulation! Awesome!

[Murphy101]

I have been home schooling for 13 years now.

 

When I started, support groups were for parents. We shared curriculum and teaching tips. Many were about being a better Christians wife/mother too. But there really wasn't much interests in reinventing school at home by sending them away to learn unless it was extracurricular or tutoring in a particuliar upper level subject the parent was out of their depth in teaching.

 

Now, "co ops" are prolific. I write it that way bc many of them are not even co ops in the sense of what that meant years ago. They are actually 1-3 day a week schools with paid teachers, which may or may not be other parents in the coop. The quality can vary widely, from nothing more than paying an exhorbant sum for socialization to even more exhorbant for college prep courses. Seriously, there are some decent private schools I could send my kid(s) to full time for the cost of one day a week at some of the coops.

 

Many people are doing the public virtual schools online and openly admit they do absolutely zero teaching and don't want to. The kid is answerable to the teacher advisor. When a mom asks for help with getting kids to do their work or develop study habits, she rarely gets helps beyond, "That's why we enrolled junior in k12 (or whatever)." it's the new version to telling her she should just put them in school, imnsho.

 

There are very few genuine support groups now. The majority of them are formed around their coop and if you aren't in the coop, it might not be expressly frowned upon, but it keeps you an outsider and greatly limits any support you get for anything you do not in the coop.

 

For example, if the coop teaches IEW, it's likely you will get a lot of flack if when someone asks for an opinion or review of writing curriculia, you are negative about IEW. (I picked that one, but really it could be anything. Saxon, apologia, BJU, whatever.)

 

The sad side effect of this is that only the very well off can get any benefit from the coops/support groups. Everyone else is just left adrift or end up in public virtual school.

 

Now, being adrift isn't all bad. Over all I'm happy enough with how things are going most days. I do dual enroll, but that's nothing new here either. Even back when I was in high school juniors and seniors could dual enroll and many did.

[Murphy101]

I don't really care that people partake of virtual public schools. Whatever works for them.

 

But fact is, by law by their enrollment, they are not home schoolers. It's not being a witchy to say they aren't home schoolers, it's fact. They are home public schoolers. Which is all fine and dandy by me. :)

 

ETA: this is in Oklahoma. I knowin some states the definitions may be different. But in Oklahoma, enrolling in a public virtual school classifies them as a public school student.

[briansmama]

I'm seeing a huge influx of affluent families homeschooling for secular reasons- I think this definitely changes the face of homeschooling. When my now 9 1/2 yr old was a baby and I was researching homeschooling, most were either conservative Christians or radical unschoolers. This is no longer the case.

 

Many homeschooling parents I meet now are interested in providing their children with access to higher quality resources and individualized instruction, and are well-educated themselves. Many have backgrounds in finance, science, etc and are very discerning about the schooling options available to their dc. Private schools are often not considered good enough because they still can't offer the level of quality instruction and resources that a private tutor/lab or field class/knowledgable parent/travel opportunity can offer.

 

In my mind, this is a great thing, as we chose homeschooling initially for the outstanding resources and individualized instruction, as well as plenty of time spent outdoors in nature and more free time for our dc to pursue their interests.

 

In the end, I think homeschooling has simply become more mainstream and is now considered a viable, high quality option weighed in the decision of how to educate children.

[momma2three]

I'm seeing a huge influx of affluent families homeschooling for secular reasons- I think this definitely changes the face of homeschooling. When my now 9 1/2 yr old was a baby and I was researching homeschooling, most were either conservative Christians or radical unschoolers. This is no longer the case.

 

Many homeschooling parents I meet now are interested in providing their children with access to higher quality resources and individualized instruction, and are well-educated themselves. Many have backgrounds in finance, science, etc and are very discerning about the schooling options available to their dc. Private schools are often not considered good enough because they still can't offer the level of quality instruction and resources that a private tutor/lab or field class/knowledgable parent/travel opportunity can offer.

 

In my mind, this is a great thing, as we chose homeschooling initially for the outstanding resources and individualized instruction, as well as plenty of time spent outdoors in nature and more free time for our dc to pursue their interests.

 

In the end, I think homeschooling has simply become more mainstream and is now considered a viable, high quality option weighed in the decision of how to educate children.

 

I think that this is a big thing, at least around here. We probably fall into this category. It's not just that private schools aren't "good enough," it's that they're fantastically expensive. $20-$30k per year (and more expensive in the city!), which is bad enough... but then you have 2 or 3 kids and who can spend $70,000 PER YEAR on ELEMENTARY SCHOOL? That's just nuts. Salaries in the sorts of well educated, affluent fields you're talking about are higher than average obviously, but certainly not that high for most people... especially when you consider that fields that earn a lot often come with 6 digits of student debt.

 

$20k per kid can buy an awful lot of homeschooling!

[Arcadia]

I'm seeing a huge influx of affluent families homeschooling for secular reasons- I think this definitely changes the face of homeschooling.

...

Private schools are often not considered good enough because they still can't offer the level of quality instruction and resources that a private tutor/lab or field class/knowledgable parent/travel opportunity can offer.

 

I do see an increase here too of secular homeschoolers who are middle income, not happy with the assigned school and too costly to move house.

 

The second part quoted was why hubby pulled our boys out of B&M school to switch to virtual school. We toured private schools and feel they were not worth the school fees. His financial calculation/reasoning was that if we spend more than $20k per child for private school, we could have hire a private tutor for each subject we are not keen/competent to teach.

[HS Mom in NC]

Our family enrolled in a public school charter program four years ago, after 5 years of public school. I will admit that I get a little tired of hearing how we are not "real" homeschoolers simply because we elected to go a different route than some have chosen. Jumping off the cliff when no one in our family had ever done so before was scary, and I wanted the support...not just the money. I had kids who just couldn't fit in academically and would have drowned had we remained. Do I have to meet a few standards? Yes, but in all truthfulness we would have tried to meet them anyway, as it is what I feel is appropriate. Do I have to use solely secular materials? Yes, but then I would have done so in all likelihood with a few exceptions anyway. Do we have to take state testing? Yes, but ask me if I care much about the results other than for my own information. Do we get funding? Yes, we do...and I have paid for it for years in taxes so I have a right to it and have not a single qualm about it.

 

 

We are more like you all than many would like to think, and perhaps far more like you "old timers" than others. I get up every morning and I teach. I teach every single subject to our five kids. I teach special ed, I teach gifted, I teach ELL, I teach regular old stuff. I teach it, I test them, I haul them to a few outside activities...so tell me again how I am so different from you all? Oh yea, we get funding...that somehow makes us not a "real" homeschooler.

 

The issues are primarily legal. Charter schools are taxpayer funded government monitored public schools so they are subject to mandatory testing. They also require someone to oversee the parent here in the state of AZ for their online at home versions of charter schooling. Because of that our state will not legally classify them as homeschoolers because homeschoolers are not overseen by anyone and they are not subject to mandatory testing by law just like private school students are not subject to it. If you go around lumping everyone at home in the homeschooling category by law, then you have people in brick and mortar charter schools wondering why they're subject to testing and supervision just like the other ps, but people using state resources at home are exempt. When it comes to classification, there's usually a legal issue at the bottom of it. Here, you are either enrolled in some form of taxpayer funded government supervised schooling: brick and mortar public or charter or online public or charter, you sign a homeschooling affidavit, you enroll in a private school of some sort, or you break the law and do none or more than one of those things. The reason the state mandates testing and government supervision is to answer to the taxpayer that those funds are being used to educate children adequately.

 

Since legally defined homeschoolers in AZ do not receive taxpayer funds they are not subject to testing and supervision by taxpayer funded government schooling. The taxpayers do not contribute one dime to homeschooling in AZ. We pay for government funded schooling at the same rate our neighbors do and here we don't take one penny from the taxpayers. When you consider that public education in America costs on average $10,000 per year per child, it's a rare parent who is paying in taxes the actual cost of their child's education on their own, which is what public school was deigned to do. Public and public charter schools are sharing that cost between the taxpayers and therefore, the government has to answer to the taxpayers for the use of their resources through supervision and testing. Just like the "How to Spot an American" thread, pointing out differences in philosophy and practice is not categorically criticism.

 

I think the option of ps or public charter school at home is a great idea not only for individual students and families, but for the taxpayers as well. I think it's long past time for the once closed guild of teaching to be opened up to innovation and choices. The problem is, there have been several cases here where people pulled their kids out of a brick and mortar ps and opted for the charter at home not fully understanding what they were signing up for and then complaining about it later. That's not about homeschooling or ps or a charter school or anything else, that's an "I didn't do my homework" problem with some parents. It caused enough confusion early on that the state of AZ doesn't allow taxpayer funded schooling at home to use the term "homeschooling." They have to use the terms "charter school at home" or "public school at home" when they advertise. There are plenty of people who don't homeschool who want to be sure their tax dollars are not being used to fund homeschooling-they want their tax dollars used for public education in all forms.

 

The other way in which you differ, if you are part of a public or charter school at home, is you cannot set your own schedule for what you will cover when and with which curriculum. If you don't like the approach being used for math, you cannot replace it with a different math curriculum of your choosing like homeschoolers can-unless it's changed since I had friends doing it a few years ago. I have heard complaints that some online versions even decide when you will start schooling-a friend whose kids were going to music camp the first week of the charter school schedule had to choose between the two. As I understand it, it's not the case with all the charter options, but that is a huge difference. Some consider that worse or bad. Others consider it different. It's like religious denominations. There's no point in getting upset about another denomination's different views about baptism, communion, election, etc.

 

The escalation of the "Mommy Wars" really doesn't need to extend to our homeschooling choices, does it? I mean, after all, whether a mom homeschools it all, subcontracts it out, or some sort of hybrid...it is all about educational options.

 

Or at least, that is what I thought it was about.

 

I refuse to condemn or judge ANY other parents who make a different choice for their children than I have for mine. After all, most would never do what we have elected to do. As homeschooling and educational choice has grown, even those who do it the so called "traditional" way have benefited with a wider array of materials available, more co-ops if they decide they'd like to utilize them, and more folks to hang out with...that is unless they are deemed somehow "unworthy" because the are part of a charter program, not Christian enough, not rigorous enough...yada yada yada.

 

I get so tired of how we perceive "different" as somehow "worse than" or "bad". But then, it seems that no matter where we turn, there is a hierarchy inflicted upon us all, much to our detriment.

 

May we all have the freedom and liberty to do what we feel called to do for our families without being made to feel as if we are somehow inferior.

 

Signed,

 

A Damned Proud Charter Homeschooling Mom Who DEFINITELY Homeschools, Regardless of What Others Think

[CyndiLJ]

25 years here.

 

And yes, hsing has definitely changed. The biggest change has been the commitment--sort of like, "If it doesn't work, we'll just put them back in" mindset. We have far more refugees in the younger years but only ourselves and one other family still at it in the high school years. The vision overall, is gone. Until a few years ago, it was trendy, but then moms figured out it was work. We now have a very reasonably priced private school and we lost over 15 families to that. We've never had a co-op, but just a few classes that a mom would put together--nothing terribly structured. There used to be a feeling of we're all in this together--that's gone now. It's sad really.

 

Although nowhere as experienced as Margaret, I can totally agree with this. Even in our short four years I have seen several families jump in...and out...then back in...and even out once more. I think moms sometimes underestimate just how much work is involved in homeschooling. It can be arduous, emotionally exhausting, challenging work that almost seems to never end. The commitment required is incredible, especially for those who are doing all or most of the educating themselves. I actually wish we were homeschooling "back in the day". I begin to make a friend here or there, then they go back to a traditional classroom setting.

 

Also, I recently discovered that we are one of the very few families in our program of over 600 kids that are homeschooling every subject at home aside from athletics. I was shocked, as I assumed most were doing the majority of school work at home with perhaps a class here or there outsourced. I think it is far more likely that those in charter programs like ours are actually outsourcing more than those who are more traditional and on their own, as more of us do fall in that "refugee" status. However, some of us move from "Refugee" to more traditional mindsets rather quickly once we see the benefits.

 

I do think there is a trendy factor to it all, as well, but I think that dies off rather quickly after a month or so home with kids and the real work has begun. Some don't make it, some do.

 

Truth is, I have never seen homeschooling as the solution for every child. We need a very strong public education system because no matter how much we believe in the homeschooling model, we will always have those for whom it is not an option. Whether we participate in it or not, we need to ensure that our society has a well educated populace. If not, we all suffer. There are no "one size fits all" answers. Isn't that why we elected to homeschool in the first place? Maybe we need to recognize that there are no "one size fits all" homeschool models either!!

[momma2three]

I'm actually really interested to see if the affluent secular homeschooling trend abates a little when private school tuitions get more reasonable. They're going to have to... none of the schools around here can fill their classes anymore. I've talked to more than 1 parent who toured the private schools, even applied, and then changed their mind at the last minute, thinking of all the better ways to spend their money.

[CyndiLJ]

The other way in which you differ, if you are part of a public or charter school at home, is you cannot set your own schedule for what you will cover when and with which curriculum. If you don't like the approach being used for math, you cannot replace it with a different math curriculum of your choosing like homeschoolers can-unless it's changed since I had friends doing it a few years ago. I have heard complaints that some online versions even decide when you will start schooling-a friend whose kids were going to music camp the first week of the charter school schedule had to choose between the two. As I understand it, it's not the case with all the charter options, but that is a huge difference.Some consider that worse or bad. Others consider it different. It's like religious denominations. There's no point in getting upset about another denomination's different views about baptism, communion, election, etcfor

 

Actually, this IS different for our program. I am able to fully select any curriculum I want to use for any subject, up to and including going Charlotte Mason-y with no textbooks, or mom created curriculum by pulling together resources of my own choosing that can include learning games, puzzles, my own ideas for posters that are well researched, video projects, any number of real books, etc. as long as I explain what we are using and studying for a learning plan. I can school all summer and include most hours (not from June to July 15th), I can switch curricula mid-stream if something isn't working for us, I can homeschool any hour of any day for as long or as short as I wish. We can be off for as long as we want, as long as by the end of the year our hours are submitted and complete. Yes, we do need to finish what we start for high school credit, but we would have to do that anyway if I were to award credit for something. The only real curriculum restriction we have is that it is secular materials, however I always supplement at home with any religiously oriented materials I wish to use.

 

Yes, legally we are public school students doing "home education", and our kids will get a diploma from the local high school. But if we continue to do as you mention here above, and begin to make such distinctions between communities as people do with denominations, I think we all lose something in the process. Legally or otherwise, parents educating their children in their homes need to support and encourage one another. No one should have to defend their status...and I say that on behalf of those teaching only one subject at home with others outsourced, those in charter programs, those who are K12 and supplementing that with their own materials, or those mainly teaching everything.

 

I really appreciated your points!

[momma2three]

I wonder how the type A personalities would respond to lower private school tuition. I imagine they are thriving with homeschooling and posting all about it on their blogs. :p I'm not so sure those types would be quick to jump ship. For them, I think it's more trendy to be homeschooling.

 

I have heard of the more affluent people going the full-time tutor route and calling it homeschooling. There was an article in CNN about a year ago that caused a kerfuffle because he didn't actually teach his kids anything, it was all tutors. Yes, he hired the best retired teachers he could find, but was only in charge of paying for his kids education.

 

 

I know families that do this. I know one family personally, and have friends who have done the teaching in this situation. These families are very, very wealthy. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Official Homeschooling Handbook that says that parents have to do the teaching. The key words are just "home" and "school."

 

I personally wouldn't do it because I really like teaching, but not everyone enjoys teaching, and not everyone has a schedule that allows it.

[momacacia]

Yes to the OP on the qualification question. I'm so surprised to hear the mothers saying, "Ooh, don't know if I could teach high school," or "Oh, I can't teach writing or math!" Then of course this is only fed by the seminars at the Homeschool Conventions titled, "Yes! You Can Homeschool Your High Schooler!"

[Ellie]

 

ETA: this is in Oklahoma. I knowin some states the definitions may be different. But in Oklahoma, enrolling in a public virtual school classifies them as a public school student.

 

 

This is true in California and in Texas.

[briansmama]

I'm actually really interested to see if the affluent secular homeschooling trend abates a little when private school tuitions get more reasonable. They're going to have to... none of the schools around here can fill their classes anymore. I've talked to more than 1 parent who toured the private schools, even applied, and then changed their mind at the last minute, thinking of all the better ways to spend their money.

 

 

I definitely see what you are saying and for many families (including us, although I'm very dedicated to homeschooling our dc and not interested in private school) homeschooling is still a less expensive, high quality alternative to private schooling, but I've actually heard several of these families claim they spend more on their dc education homeschooling than they paid in private school tuition when their dc attended, and it was still worth it to them. These are families paying for private tutors and expensive science programs/classes, but all are high quality, and not only worth the higher price tag, but actually are considered far superior to what most private schools can offer. These kids are studying pretty amazing things, and their tutors are often well-connected.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon for sure. I do think the level of quality classes/tutors available to our dc will only increase as more parents seek them out for their children and are willing to pay very high prices for them.

[Arcadia]

We need a very strong public education system because no matter how much we believe in the homeschooling model, we will always have those for whom it is not an option. Whether we participate in it or not, we need to ensure that our society has a well educated populace.

The 2007 census estimates homeschoolers as 2.9% of 51.135,000 students. It does not give a breakdown of the non-homeschoolers into public and private school students. Either way it makes sense to hope for a better education system to benefit everyone.

http://www.census.go...les/12s0240.pdf

ETA: I can't find any data more recent than 2007

[Hunter]

My oldest used American School correspondence school, graduated at 16, and then started the local junior college as a Freshman with federal grants. I called him a homeschooler while he was enrolled with American School, but HE did not. He insisted he was doing a combination of teaching HIMSELF and interacting with TEACHERS. We had a very extended time of morning worship that usually lasted about 1 1/2 hours and covered most school subjects, but he considered that religious education, not "school". He now refers to himself as having been homeschooled, and says the morning worship time was the most important part of his academic education.

 

I never called him a homeschooler while enrolled at the college. He was officially a freshman and not only paying the tuition not covered by the grants, but also paying for the health insurance he was required to have to be allowed on campus.

 

My youngest took the GED and started as a freshman at 17. He also paid his tuition that wasn't covered by grants, but thankfully I'd managed to get some state funded health insurance for him. Everyone called him a homeschooler until he earned his GED, even when he spent some time enrolled with CLE Plus and then American School. He did NOT do his lessons independently. I taught each and every one of them, even though the tests were graded by teachers. :lol: Most of his time homeschooling was just me; and there were no support groups, coops or organized sports for either boy.

 

Most other homeschoolers in our area in the 90s and early 2000s did sports, K-8 gym at a private school, and used the junior college to finish high school. We couldn't afford any of those things.

 

Internet DID change things. So did the 1st edition of TWTM! And things changed FAST. And at the same time the schools started PRETENDING to teach more than they were teaching, and started expelling all the lower functioning students that couldn't at least pretend. This made it so much harder for homeschooling parents to confidently prepare developmentally appropriate lesson plans for their normal children. They started trying to compete with a mirage.

 

I enjoy and use all the modern things, but I think they have done more harm than good. But they are here, and we adapt to the reality of what we do have.

[Mom0012]

I have been home schooling for 13 years now.

 

When I started, support groups were for parents. We shared curriculum and teaching tips. Many were about being a better Christians wife/mother too. But there really wasn't much interests in reinventing school at home by sending them away to learn unless it was extracurricular or tutoring in a particuliar upper level subject the parent was out of their depth in teaching.

 

Now, "co ops" are prolific. I write it that way bc many of them are not even co ops in the sense of what that meant years ago. They are actually 1-3 day a week schools with paid teachers, which may or may not be other parents in the coop. The quality can vary widely, from nothing more than paying an exhorbant sum for socialization to even more exhorbant for college prep courses. Seriously, there are some decent private schools I could send my kid(s) to full time for the cost of one day a week at some of the coops.

 

Many people are doing the public virtual schools online and openly admit they do absolutely zero teaching and don't want to. The kid is answerable to the teacher advisor. When a mom asks for help with getting kids to do their work or develop study habits, she rarely gets helps beyond, "That's why we enrolled junior in k12 (or whatever)." it's the new version to telling her she should just put them in school, imnsho.

 

There are very few genuine support groups now. The majority of them are formed around their coop and if you aren't in the coop, it might not be expressly frowned upon, but it keeps you an outsider and greatly limits any support you get for anything you do not in the coop.

 

For example, if the coop teaches IEW, it's likely you will get a lot of flack if when someone asks for an opinion or review of writing curriculia, you are negative about IEW. (I picked that one, but really it could be anything. Saxon, apologia, BJU, whatever.)

 

The sad side effect of this is that only the very well off can get any benefit from the coops/support groups. Everyone else is just left adrift or end up in public virtual school.

 

Now, being adrift isn't all bad. Over all I'm happy enough with how things are going most days. I do dual enroll, but that's nothing new here either. Even back when I was in high school juniors and seniors could dual enroll and many did.

 

One of the reasons we started to participate in outside classes is because I felt adrift. As my kids have gotten older, many of their friends have returned to school, moved, grown apart, etc. Many of my friendships were tied to theirs. There are no social support groups in my area at least for older kids. We were in a nice group when mine were little, but aged out. I need to have other moms to talk to once in a while and my son is very social and needs that too. He still is fortunate to have a couple of good friends, but their mom often talks of moving, so I feel I need to continue to make new connections. I don't want to be without any adult company and stuck in my house 90% of the time.

[Desert Strawberry]

In Louisiana, most homeschoolers are classified as private school students. There is a. Home Study option, monitored and regulated by the state. But I don't currently know anyone who uses that option. California has a similar option., as well as a few others. So technically, we aren't homeschoolers either.

I am feeling better about my decision NOT to outsource anything. I ordered self-teaching music and art courses. We use text books and discussion. We do have sports and some outside extra curriculars, but I teach everything, or they teach themselves.

it seems to me that we all exist on a continuum. There are a great many options available. I think that is wonderful.

[Kari C in SC]

I have been homeschooling for 15 years and have found it to be exactly the opposite of that. For years, in the beginning, there was a co-op for every day of the week. There were tons of classes. Then the economy tanked, gas prices went up and less people were doing these classes. We are seeing an uptic now as the economy has improved, but not back to where it was.