Who's used Life of Fred Middle School books? Starting with Fractions.

[tammyw]

My dd10 has already started Singapore Math 5a, and I was just looking up the Life of Fred middle school books (we have quite a few of the elementary books). I didn't realize there were 10 of them!

 

http://www.horriblebooks.com/lifeoffredbooklist.htm

 

Just curious of others' experience with them.

[Momof3littles]

My 9 yo is finishing up Singapore 5B right now. I purchased some LoF books to supplement or change things up when he's bored. He really enjoys them. One of them basically hints about Santa not being real, so just be aware of that if it is an issue for your family. I also dislike some of the author's personal POV that creeps into the books, but DS1 seems fairly oblivious. He's using the decimals and prealgebra books right now. I'm picking up physics for him when I complete my RR order.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I can tell you my opinion of those we used (or chose not to) so far. Obviously, this is all IMO/IME!:

 

Fractions - best used for review/application after fractions have been taught systematically with another program. Not enough practice with each operation to learn with this alone. For example, fraction division isn't introduced till the very end of the book, then you get a Your Turn to Play with an addition, a subtraction, a multiplication, and a division problem in it - and you're supposed to have all the rules for each operation straight, after reading one lesson?? Great for review.

 

Decimals - great for review. DD did this book effortlessly on her own after having covered fractions & decimals in MM5 (and finishing LOF Frac). I particularly like that some basic gemoery (area & perimeter, a little volume) is included so that gets reviewed periodically.

 

Physics - I bought it, tried to read it 2 or 3 times, then sold it. I have a little bit of a Physics phobia, myself, and dd will be studying it for the first time this year. LOF would *not* have helped - it's kind of confusing, and the organization doesn't make much sense to me - yeah, Fred learns physics as he goes about his daily life, but that isn't going to help us gain a systematic understanding of the topic . . . and this book was less funny, engaging, lighthearted or something. Or maybe I'm just getting tired of Fred getting worked over by CC Coalback?

 

PreAlgebra with Biology - I've worked through this book. I like it, dd will start it any day now. It reviews arithmetic, introduces variables. There are long sections on Botany and on Genetics where there isn't much math, but it will be nice review of the Bio we did last year. The sections on stoichiometry were HARD!! I couldn't solve a few of them. I won't require dd to master that at this point, but it's good introduction to math applied to chemistry.

 

PreA w/ Economics - I really liked how the early chapters explained algebraic word problems. It was very clear, lots of examples. But then he got into the "economics" part, and whew! I just couldn't take it. It wasn't just the kinda Rand-esque libertarian economics - I could have coped with that - it was the totally inaccurate retellings of history that got to me. We would have digressed into long daily diatribes about what was wrong with this picture - not what I need in a math book, KWIM? I sold this one too.

 

I've just started looking at Beginning Algebra, and the jury is still out.

 

By way of a little background, I went through the entire Elementary series with dd in 4th grade when she came home from ps. It was a breath of fresh air for her, she loved it, it helped her to love math again (and to get through MM4, which was rough at the beginning). I liked Fractions & Decimals as spiral review. DD7 has gone through Apples & Butterflies, and likes it. I really like the math insight she is able to develop using this book. So I've liked the elementary series a lot. We'll see about the rest . . .

[arborite]

Agree with everything Chrysalis says above.

 

We started with Fractions/Decimals as review, started and ditched Physics, completed both Pre-Algebras but told DS13 to ignore most of the Econ content of the second (except for comparative advantage, which was taught well).

 

The math content of the second prealgebra book is incredibly valuable (six easy boxes) so don't skip it.

 

On to Algebra with Fred, side-by-side with the boring text used in the public schools here so that he can learn to slog through dry textbooks.

[IrishMum]

My older 2 boys used them along with MM, and now AOPS. We loved them! They never complain about doing their LOF. I had to buy all the books so they could read ahead and see what happens to Fred.

[Dmmetler]

We did Fractions and Decimals along with SM 4a-5b, Pre-Algebra 1 and 2 (skipping and discussing some of the economics content) along with Key to Algebra and SM 6 CWP/IP last year, and have physics (along with a co-op amusement park physics class and lots lf physics trade books)and Beginning Algebra (with AOPS Pre-algebra) for next year. DD loves Fred. I wish the elementary series had come out a bit earlier.

[merylvdm]

My dd has done Fractions, Percents, all the pre Algebra and aout 1/3 of the algebra now.She is about to go to 8th grade and has done LOF for 3 years I guess. This year she placed in an area wide math contest with all the local schools. I have been teaching a math club every other week for the homeschoolers in our support group, and I thought this had a lot to do with her succes, but she reckoned it was all "due to Fred". It is by far her favorite thing to do each day.

 

My boys (who are both now graduated used and loved LOF too - and they really liked the way things are explained. They liked the stories too!

[tammyw]

Thanks everyone. I will order Fractions and Decimals to try them out!

[pantone]

Fractions isn't the middle school level.

 

Apples through Jelly Beans is elementary.

Kidneys through Mineshaft is middle school.

Fractions + is higher level.

 

DS10 got completely bogged down with the Fractions book and we had to back way the heck up and take another running start.

 

We backed up to the elementary series, as his sister was recovering from the hideousness that is Everyday Mathematics (implemented horribly by a moonlighting Sunday School teacher!) and it was clear he knew how to solve stuff but not WHY it's done that way.

 

He's now nearly 12 and starting on his way through Kidneys.

[tammyw]

Fractions isn't the middle school level.

 

Apples through Jelly Beans is elementary.

Kidneys through Mineshaft is middle school.

Fractions + is higher level.

 

DS10 got completely bogged down with the Fractions book and we had to back way the heck up and take another running start.

 

We backed up to the elementary series, as his sister was recovering from the hideousness that is Everyday Mathematics (implemented horribly by a moonlighting Sunday School teacher!) and it was clear he knew how to solve stuff but not WHY it's done that way.

 

He's now nearly 12 and starting on his way through Kidneys.

 

 

Weird - it says Middle school level on the page I was looking at.

 

We've been working on fractions for a while, but maybe the Fred books contain more advanced fractions?

[wapiti]

Fractions isn't the middle school level.

 

Apples through Jelly Beans is elementary.

Kidneys through Mineshaft is middle school.

Fractions + is higher level.

 

DS10 got completely bogged down with the Fractions book and we had to back way the heck up and take another running start.

 

We backed up to the elementary series, as his sister was recovering from the hideousness that is Everyday Mathematics (implemented horribly by a moonlighting Sunday School teacher!) and it was clear he knew how to solve stuff but not WHY it's done that way.

 

He's now nearly 12 and starting on his way through Kidneys.

 

 

Only algebra (and above) could possibly be higher than middle school. Fractions is basically 5th (or 5th-to-middle school), as it can be started following long division (long division is a 4th grade skill virtually everywhere). See, e.g., http://www.lifeoffredmath.com/lof2.php

 

That said, it's a great idea to back up to solidify concepts and skills that weren't solid before. That's probably why the books aren't labeled with grade levels :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, I agree, Fractions & Decimals covered what is taught in MM5, for example. It's just that LOF doesn't teach fractions (or anything else!) particularly systematically or incrementally, or with very much practice. It's great for discovering applications of what you've learned, why you should care about it and how you would use it in everyday life, but it would be so very, very hard to learn fractions using it alone!

 

In fact, I'm curious if anyone has ever introduced fractions exclusively using LOF? Successfully, without needing something else for more practice? In 2 years reading hundreds of LOF posts on this forum, I've never heard of it. I'll have to try a search . . .

[tammyw]

Yeah, I agree, Fractions & Decimals covered what is taught in MM5, for example. It's just that LOF doesn't teach fractions (or anything else!) particularly systematically or incrementally, or with very much practice. It's great for discovering applications of what you've learned, why you should care about it and how you would use it in everyday life, but it would be so very, very hard to learn fractions using it alone!

 

In fact, I'm curious if anyone has ever introduced fractions exclusively using LOF? Successfully, without needing something else for more practice? In 2 years reading hundreds of LOF posts on this forum, I've never heard of it. I'll have to try a search . . .

 

 

I kind of love that, then! I think some of the harder parts of math is showing how it will be used in real life, or why we need to know it. I can explain ideas, but seeing it in these books would be wonderful!

[pineapplehorse]

Our start in LoF was Fractions. My oldest has done Fractions (at age 10), Decimals (age 10), Physics (age 11), Pre-Algebra with Biology (age 11) and is starting Pre-Algebra with Economics in August (age 12). He went from CTY Accelerated Grade 6 math into fractions so he did have some experience with fractions before. He loves it and has retained it awesomely. I dislike Physics greatly and he is head and shoulders above my understanding even after 2 semester of college physics.

 

He is 100% independent. He sets a timer and works for 30 minutes 4 days a week. Sometimes, that 30 minutes is 1 lesson and your turn to try, sometimes it is 2 or 3 lessons. He occaissionally needs multiple tries at a bridge but if it gets to that point, I figure out what problems are causing him trouble, spend a few minutes teaching them, then just assign those questions from the remaining tries for that bridge.

 

I completely disagree that LoF does not teach. It is our sole math curriculum, and I do not see us going back to anything else. CTY was great but at $285/mo per child, I just can't afford that any more, and LoF is the ONLY curriculum I have found that I like as much as CTY. I think it goes back to the learning style of your child. Things with lots of practice and drill destroy math for my crew. They are grab a concept and go type learners.

 

My littles did LoF Apples, Butterflies, Cats, Dogs & Edgewood from Christmas to May this year at ages 7 & 8, and are starting Farming in August with the plan to complete Mineshaft by the end of the year and start them on LoF Fractions next year (at ages 9 & 10). They each alternate reading pages to me for 2 chapters per day and then do the your turn to try. They started in Saxon (OMG we all almost died), then tried RightStart (B was great but C started to move too slowly even with me changing everything up on the fly), then tried Math Mammoth (again...waaaaaaay too many problems to do) and ended up in LoF when my oldest started loving it. My youngest (7) told us the other night there was a 25% chance we were eating a fish he caught because he caught 2 of the 8 fish. The only place he has learned this is the odd statement thrown out by Fred.

[NittanyJen]

Yeah, I agree, Fractions & Decimals covered what is taught in MM5, for example. It's just that LOF doesn't teach fractions (or anything else!) particularly systematically or incrementally, or with very much practice. It's great for discovering applications of what you've learned, why you should care about it and how you would use it in everyday life, but it would be so very, very hard to learn fractions using it alone!

 

In fact, I'm curious if anyone has ever introduced fractions exclusively using LOF? Successfully, without needing something else for more practice? In 2 years reading hundreds of LOF posts on this forum, I've never heard of it. I'll have to try a search . . .

 

 

 

DS12 started in Fractions around 2 1/2 years ago (I think; I am starting to lose track now :D ) as his sole math program, and it was his introduction to fractions.

 

We found it very complete, and he worked it independently. He loved it BECAUSE it was not incremental; his words were, "Finally! A math program that treats me as if I have a brain and doesn't spoon-feed me every single step!"

 

We did think it was very organized, and did a great job of showing him the why behind the way fractions worked, and provided a ton of practice problems for such a one-track subject; after all, there are a load more fraction problems in the next book . . . and the next . . .and the next . . . and the next . . . and pretty much for the rest of mathematics. It is not exactly a topic that will ever be set aside and need to be refreshed again once introduced-- fractions, once learned, are practiced continuously ever after. They are also pretty straightforward to learn; once you've reduced two or three fractions, reducing thirty more will work pretty much the exact same way.

[Chrysalis Academy]

DS12 started in Fractions around 2 1/2 years ago (I think; I am starting to lose track now :D ) as his sole math program, and it was his introduction to fractions.

 

We found it very complete, and he worked it independently. He loved it BECAUSE it was not incremental; his words were, "Finally! A math program that treats me as if I have a brain and doesn't spoon-feed me every single step!"

 

We did think it was very organized, and did a great job of showing him the why behind the way fractions worked, and provided a ton of practice problems for such a one-track subject; after all, there are a load more fraction problems in the next book . . . and the next . . .and the next . . . and the next . . . and pretty much for the rest of mathematics. It is not exactly a topic that will ever be set aside and need to be refreshed again once introduced-- fractions, once learned, are practiced continuously ever after. They are also pretty straightforward to learn; once you've reduced two or three fractions, reducing thirty more will work pretty much the exact same way.

 

 

Jen, I knew you had used it (I've followed all your posts about LOF! and it's really helped me get the most out of the elementary series with both my girls) but I didn't realize it was his sole math. I thought you were using other things too. I (gladly) stand corrected! :D Dd made it to ch. 29 before just kind of throwing up her hands in confusion, but then came back to it after covering fractions in MM5, and did fine. She needs less incremental teaching than MM, but more than LOF. Luckily it's there in MM, because it's easier to skip it than to figure out what's missing and add it back in!

 

I agree that fractions keep coming up in all the rest of the books, and I love that - LOF has become our "spiral review" program! Works great for us that way.

[NittanyJen]

Jen, I knew you had used it (I've followed all your posts about LOF! and it's really helped me get the most out of the elementary series with both my girls) but I didn't realize it was his sole math. I thought you were using other things too. I (gladly) stand corrected! :D Dd made it to ch. 29 before just kind of throwing up her hands in confusion, but then came back to it after covering fractions in MM5, and did fine. She needs less incremental teaching than MM, but more than LOF. Luckily it's there in MM, because it's easier to skip it than to figure out what's missing and add it back in!

 

I agree that fractions keep coming up in all the rest of the books, and I love that - LOF has become our "spiral review" program! Works great for us that way.

 

 

DS12 used it as his sole program from Fractions through the beginning of Beginning Algebra. He dabbled briefly in AoPS (just discussed in a different thread) and now he also does Elements of Mathematics (iMACS) just for fun, because it's really cool :). But through most of this time, Fred has been his sole math program.

 

DS9 has used Fred as a supplement (he is the one who has been through the elementary Fred series, and is just now starting Fractions; we skipped the intermediate series-- my house looks like a DIY curriculum fair, so I am cutting back on purchases a bit!! You'd think I was homeschooling fifteen kids here LOL) to Singapore PM through level 5B. Because I am a fan of "don't fix what isn't broken," I plan to keep him in the Singapore program, and this kiddo will move into level DM7 in fall, after taking a break to do just Fred and Penrose over the summer as a reward for working so hard-- he adores Fred, so I won't make him stop, even as we continue Singapore. Clearly, for him, Fractions will not be a first exposure.

 

Beginning Algebra does ramp up the difficulty level quite a bit.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

 

DS12 used it as his sole program from Fractions through the beginning of Beginning Algebra. He dabbled briefly in AoPS (just discussed in a different thread) and now he also does Elements of Mathematics (iMACS) just for fun, because it's really cool :). But through most of this time, Fred has been his sole math program.

 

DS9 has used Fred as a supplement (he is the one who has been through the elementary Fred series, and is just now starting Fractions; we skipped the intermediate series-- my house looks like a DIY curriculum fair, so I am cutting back on purchases a bit!! You'd think I was homeschooling fifteen kids here LOL) to Singapore PM through level 5B. Because I am a fan of "don't fix what isn't broken," I plan to keep him in the Singapore program, and this kiddo will move into level DM7 in fall, after taking a break to do just Fred and Penrose over the summer as a reward for working so hard-- he adores Fred, so I won't make him stop, even as we continue Singapore. Clearly, for him, Fractions will not be a first exposure.

 

Beginning Algebra does ramp up the difficulty level quite a bit.

 

 

Your house sounds a lot like my house! :lol:

[Nicholas_mom]

I really enjoyed reading how some kids are able to use LOF Fractions and up as a sole math program. I think my DS fits the bill with the personality "Finally! A math program that treats me as if I have a brain and doesn't spoon-feed me every single step!"

 

..........BUT, I have a hard time letting go and going soooooooooo agaisnt the "how you should really teach your kids math" syndrome.

 

I really want to try it this in the Fall with Fractions and Decimals. We have been using LOF elementary series through Jellybeans and MM and MUS. You ladies are my inspiration to try this :thumbup:

[Matryoshka]

We did Fractions after SM4, Decimals after SM5, and Prealgebra/Bio after SM6. I never bought the Economics book because I'd heard of its ultraconservative leanings, and also, since we do Fred in the summer as a review, didn't need more than one Prealgebra book (and the Physics book wasn't out yet). Two of my kids have also used the Algebra book (or as much as they could get through in a summer) as a fun review of Algebra after they took it so their brains don't rot over the summer. Dd actually just surprised me by asking to do Fred this summer as a break from AoPS Algebra - she had specifically asked to continue AoPS Prealgebra last summer instead of doing the Fred Prealgebra.

 

I can't imagine thinking the Fractions book is above middle school math... :confused1: It was mostly review for all 3 of my kids after 4th grade math...

 

ETA: When I started using Fred, Fractions and Decimals were all the books there were before his Algebra book. No elementary books, no other middle school books. He claimed at the time that after his Fractions and Decimals books, you knew all you needed to know before moving on to Algebra!

[momto2Cs]

Our start in LoF was Fractions. My oldest has done Fractions (at age 10), Decimals (age 10), Physics (age 11), Pre-Algebra with Biology (age 11) and is starting Pre-Algebra with Economics in August (age 12). He went from CTY Accelerated Grade 6 math into fractions so he did have some experience with fractions before. He loves it and has retained it awesomely. I dislike Physics greatly and he is head and shoulders above my understanding even after 2 semester of college physics.

 

He is 100% independent. He sets a timer and works for 30 minutes 4 days a week. Sometimes, that 30 minutes is 1 lesson and your turn to try, sometimes it is 2 or 3 lessons. He occaissionally needs multiple tries at a bridge but if it gets to that point, I figure out what problems are causing him trouble, spend a few minutes teaching them, then just assign those questions from the remaining tries for that bridge.

 

I completely disagree that LoF does not teach. It is our sole math curriculum, and I do not see us going back to anything else. CTY was great but at $285/mo per child, I just can't afford that any more, and LoF is the ONLY curriculum I have found that I like as much as CTY. I think it goes back to the learning style of your child. Things with lots of practice and drill destroy math for my crew. They are grab a concept and go type learners.

 

DS12 started in Fractions around 2 1/2 years ago (I think; I am starting to lose track now :D ) as his sole math program, and it was his introduction to fractions.

 

We found it very complete, and he worked it independently. He loved it BECAUSE it was not incremental; his words were, "Finally! A math program that treats me as if I have a brain and doesn't spoon-feed me every single step!"

 

We did think it was very organized, and did a great job of showing him the why behind the way fractions worked, and provided a ton of practice problems for such a one-track subject; after all, there are a load more fraction problems in the next book . . . and the next . . .and the next . . . and the next . . . and pretty much for the rest of mathematics. It is not exactly a topic that will ever be set aside and need to be refreshed again once introduced-- fractions, once learned, are practiced continuously ever after. They are also pretty straightforward to learn; once you've reduced two or three fractions, reducing thirty more will work pretty much the exact same way.

 

Thank you both SO much! I feel much better about ds12's hope to use LOF as his primary math program next fall. We're a little behind, so he'll be doing Fractions and Decimals & Percents, maybe getting into pre-algebra next year. I am really not sure about the Physics book at this point.

[Space station]

I just wanted to thank everyone that warned about the wacky content of LOF Pre-algebra 2 with Economics.  My daughter is just finishing the Pre-algebra 1 book and since she does her math so independently, I was just going to hand her the next book and not look at it.  My kids have enjoyed Fractions, Decimals and Pre-algebra 1, but we have used the books as a fun way to review during the summer, not as our main curriculum.  However, after reading these posts I went and read the Pre-algebra 2 book and I was appalled at the spin on some of the econ material.  My history addict husband was incensed at the claims that the Civil War was about tariffs, not slavery.  Of course, then my kids got an impromptu lesson from him on the causes of the civil war and looking at primary sources to understand history.  They then poured over all of the Articles of Succession to see what they thought.  It turned out to be a great lesson, but we will be skipping the LOF Pre-Algebra 2 book.

 

[kristi26]

DS13 has dyscalculia, so keep that in mind as I tell you of our experience with Fractions.  I picked up Fractions for ODS last summer to use as review because a)he has already done fractions in 5th grade, b )he hates math so this was a great, fun way to get him into it again, and c) I had hoped that the gentle review would be enough to help him really "get" fractions so we could move on to decimals and percents (which he'd done with a different program as well in 6th grade).

 

None of the above happened.  He got through the Fractions book with little to no understanding of fractions.  He still didn't get them.  So we moved to Math-u-See epsilon and that's what finally clicked for him. He loved LOF but it just didn't work for him.  This year, he's moving on to MUS Zeta and will read through LOF D&P for review at the end of that book, but only because he enjoyed reading about Fred. I also have LOF pre-algebra for him to use for review again NEXT year when he finishes MUS pre-algebra.

[happymomofboys]

My son used Fractions and Decimals and Percents last year and is going through Elementary Physics now.  He loves them.

[banker281]

My son used Fractions and Decimals a couple of years ago however he didn't care for them.  He didn't find them challenging whatsoever and thought them childish.  I did think they were great for review. 

[Guest xe3ep]

I would like to skip Physics and go directly from Decimals and Percent to Pre-Algebra/Bio.  Is there any reason that I should do Physics first?

[Dmmetler]

Physics wasn't out yet when we used LOF PA, and there was no trouble going to it after Decimals.

[Reefgazer]

We started LoF in fractions and will be finishing up decimals soon, then started pre-algebra with biology.  IMO, they do not have enough repeating practice to serve as a primary math text for DD because she needs repitition, but they are nice supplements.  DD loves them and doesn't want to give them up.

[bluedarling]

My boys used LOF Fractions, Decimals and started Pre-Alg with Biology.  They liked the stories, they were able to work the problems, but I did not feel they had mastered the material.  After poor test scores that year, I had the kids test into MUS, and they started in Gamma (multiplication) and Episolon (fractions) after having gone through the  LOF books mentioned.  There just were not enough practice imo for it to be a sole curriculum.  That said, I have introduced them to my gifted learner as a supplement.  I think they make excellent supplements, but I do not have confidence in using them as the only program.

[NittanyJen]

I would like to skip Physics and go directly from Decimals and Percent to Pre-Algebra/Bio.  Is there any reason that I should do Physics first?

 

 

You certainly don't need Physics in terms of mathematical preparation (that is the simple answer), but I will note that it makes a delightful early Physics book!

 

I had DS10 use it this year (he is in Singapore DM7 and working through Decimals and Percents in the Fred series) as part of his Physics year.  I had an inexpensive spring scale sitting around, and DS could not wait to grab it and see if he could replicate what Fred was trying to do in his office in many chapters, to work out the coefficients of static and kinetic friction of different objects in different situations.  Then he wanted to find out about the force needed to move different objects, and then how inclined planes, pulleys, and levers changed the required force (he combined the spring scale with boards, pulleys, his K'Nex Education set, and a Thames and Kosmos Physics set as he read through Fred Physics).  He wanted to guess for himself whether adding pulleys to a system would be additive or multiplicative, and "think like Fred" to then build a system to test it out with the spring scale.  

 

In Fred Physics, there is lots of practice with very easy algebraic manipulations around the force equation, and other equations in physics that look exactly like it but with different variables (such as spring elasticity).  So there will be math, including lots of practice dealing with fractions and solving simple equations in one variable, including having to set up the equation from a real world problem in the first place.  Because the basic equation is essentially the same in several systems in the simplified version the student can focus on how to manipulate the equation to isolate the needed variables and become very comfortable with that process in a variety of different situations, scoring gains in both math and Physics.

 

I didn't plan to use the book, but we happened to hit our physics year, and for that reason, I'm not sorry I used it.  Then again, I love cross-curricular stuff, and driving home to my kids that stuff you learn should never be in isolated little "subject boxes" thought of only in that one class, but seen as connected to everything else, so Fred Physics was a home run for us :)  Others do feel differently.

 

In the real world of course, this is how math is really done, outside the box of "just math."  Math is done in conjunction with physics, biology, medicine, navigation, speech, cancer research, music, art, finance, sales, bridge building, quilting, farming, and more . . . so it makes sense to study it in these ways as well, even at the earliest levels.

 

DS 13 went well past this point before the Physics book ever existed.  It is his principal (and nearly only) program with only  a few minor intrusions here and there, and well into Advanced Algebra, he is doing very well (and his test scores were off the high end of the testing range in math in all areas).  So it's unnecessary, but delightful.

[Haiku]

Fractions isn't the middle school level.

 

Apples through Jelly Beans is elementary.

Kidneys through Mineshaft is middle school.

Fractions + is higher level.

 

Fractions is absolutely middle school - or lower - level. 

 

My dd started Fractions in 5th grade. Ultimately we did not continue, because she really disliked it (it was the first thing we'd used that she reacted negatively to). She was bothered by the way Fred looked, and she found the story to be nonsensical.

 

That said, I think it's a fine review/supplemental curriculum, but I wouldn't use it as a stand-alone. The instruction is too brief/not direct enough for many kids. 

 

Keep in mind that as the books progress, the author's political beliefs become more evident. I read through the Pre-A with Econ and realized that even if dd had liked the books, we couldn't have continued. I strongly disagree with the author's politics.

[Guest xe3ep]

Thanks for all the quick replies.  We finished Singapore PM6 last year with LoF Decimals and Percent.  I think I will try Singapore DM7 with LoF prealgebra this year, and possibly pick up Fred's Physics the following year when we are studying physics.  Now, my next dilemma is whether or not I need the workbooks with DM7 or not? but that is probably on another post.  Thanks for the help here.

[NittanyJen]

I recommend the workbook.

 

I am a lonely voice saying the Primary Math US series has too much repetition and review, and Fred is plenty as a standalone... and even I think the practice in the workbooks is needed to master the material even for a gifted kid.

 

DS10 is currently 75% done with 7B DM.

[jenslp]

We started with Fractions as our first book and my son and I are both head over heels in love with them.  We already bought the next 4 or 5 books.  My son does very well with them.  He does them independently and covers up the page with the solutions and then checks his answers and tells me if he missed any and then I help him.  On the bridges he does them and has me look at the answer key while he tells me his answer to each one.  Sometimes we do more bridges then we technically have to just to make sure he really gets the concepts before we move on.  My son loves the books so much I catch him sneaking peeks at the next books he hasn't gotten to yet lol.  He really is learning a lot from them and they don't take much time each day.  I now know 2 people whose kids did only LOF math from middle school on and scored perfect on their math SATs.  It's just a great math curriculum for some kids, but of course there will be some for whom it isn't a good fit. 

[jenslp]

Yeah, I agree, Fractions & Decimals covered what is taught in MM5, for example. It's just that LOF doesn't teach fractions (or anything else!) particularly systematically or incrementally, or with very much practice. It's great for discovering applications of what you've learned, why you should care about it and how you would use it in everyday life, but it would be so very, very hard to learn fractions using it alone!

 

In fact, I'm curious if anyone has ever introduced fractions exclusively using LOF? Successfully, without needing something else for more practice? In 2 years reading hundreds of LOF posts on this forum, I've never heard of it. I'll have to try a search . . .

 

To answer your question about anyone successfully introducing fractions using exclusively LOF....

 

We did it :)  My son has learned fractions exclusively from LOF and seems to have retained everything he learned from it very well.  He definitely isn't math inclined naturally and had struggled with math before LOF.  The only thing we may have done differently is that sometimes even when he would pass a bridge in less than 5 tries, I would still have him go ahead and complete the remaining couple of bridges before moving on since they are short anyway and don't take a long time.  That way I knew he didn't just pass a bridge on a fluke and he really knew the material.  LOF just is a really good fit for him and everything he has learned from it he retains.  The math he learned before we started doing LOF is the only math he has trouble with and sometimes needs review for; but all the LOF taught math does seem to sink in for him.  I'm really not sure at all why it works so well for him but it definitely does. 

[IfIOnly]

C. rods + TT + LOF = :001_wub:

[....]

The only thing we may have done differently is that sometimes even when he would pass a bridge in less than 5 tries, I would still have him go ahead and complete the remaining couple of bridges before moving on since they are short anyway and don't take a long time.  That way I knew he didn't just pass a bridge on a fluke and he really knew the material.  

 

We've used Apples all the way to Beginning Algebra (except for the physics and economics books) and this is what I do, too.  I just make them do ALL the bridges.  For my oldest who is using Beginning Algebra, I also bought the Zillions of Practice Problems book and she does all those problems, too.  This is making it take much longer to get through the algebra book, I guess.

 

Out of all the LOF books, I think the best ones have been:

1. Fractions

2. Pre-algebra with Biology

3.  Beginning Algebra 

4.  Kidneys and Liver

[IfIOnly]

We've used Apples all the way to Beginning Algebra (except for the physics and economics books) and this is what I do, too.  I just make them do ALL the bridges.  For my oldest who is using Beginning Algebra, I also bought the Zillions of Practice Problems book and she does all those problems, too.  This is making it take much longer to get through the algebra book, I guess.

 

Out of all the LOF books, I think the best ones have been:

1. Fractions

2. Pre-algebra with Biology

3.  Beginning Algebra 

4.  Kidneys and Liver

:iagree:

[NittanyJen]

A note about LOF Economics... Yeah, Stan is kind of a political fruitcake. However.

 

I had my son work through the book anyway. And I read the book too. And we had some amazing dinner table conversation about politics and economics those couple of months. He started reading the newspaper (at 11). Economics and politics have become some of his favorite subjects. He follows the fate of the Euro and the state if the European Union (we are Americans). He asks about trade agreements. I have a friend who works in the part of law dealing with international mergers and acquisitions, and he quizzes her mercilessly. I have another friend who is a corrosion engineer, and he chats him up about how energy affects global economics and politics.

 

In short, he has not adopted any of Stan's funky ideas; however two years later, the book has still had a profound impact on his interests and passions, and he is now a far more informed world citizen because of it-- probably better informed than most adults!

 

The ideas in the book may be distasteful, but if you discuss them, they need not be harmful. The math is still solid. My son learned a great lesson about not blindly agreeing with everything written in a textbook, and about not needing to make it an "all or nothing" decision; he could take the awesome (the math and Fred's delightful story) and use the rest to become a better person as he became more educated about why the rest was a problem. He avoided the fallacy that if some is bad,it all must be (particularly since the important part, the math, was fine). There were no murders or salacious content to shield him from.

 

I think only reading things I agree with is boring, and results in little growth, for defining why I disagree in precise terms often takes some research and effort (do I know as much as I think I do?). Maybe that is why I keep reading these forums-- no lack of things I disagree with (Saxon or TT usage?? <ducking> <grin>. ).

 

It's worth considering, before just chucking it. You could be passing up an opportunity to grow.

[SierraNevada]

I haven't read all the responses, so I might just be adding on to an already satisfactorily answered question....

 

We used Fractions and are over half through Decimals and DS has read through but not done problems in Physics on his own. Fractions was easy for us, but I felt he'd already had most of the info presented through SM4 and other living math books/life. I didn't feel like it would be a good book to teach from-- unless you come up with lessons on your own and are comfortable explaining it. However, I like the problem sets and feel like they really show how math is used in real life in a fun, related way (I like how the bridge probs all relate to one story). There might not be enough practice for many/some children and there is little practice between presentation and unit bridge test. Decimals has been a little harder-- primarily because the problems use larger more unwieldy numbers. Answers frequently don't just come out nice and even. I don't feel like there is very good teaching within the chapters of why. I feel more like that comes from me within the discussions we have after reading. I would never use these as a first intro if child hasn't seen these topics before at least in some degree. For that reason, I'm happy with fractions and decimals, but think pre-a/physics will be set aside and not formally woked through until we have gone through a different program first.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

For a student doing Saxon math books in their entirety (that is doing every single problem) as his primary math, can LOF books be just read as a fun review without doing any of the problems? Can a student benefit with just reading the books if they use another program as their main math like Saxon? Or does LOF use problems to discover concepts like AOPS Pre-Algebra does (which ds is also doing slowly as a supplement)?

[AimeeM]

We tried them. A couple of times. My mathy kiddo felt like the math was lost in a "silly story" (which she didn't care for at all). I, as mom and teacher, felt like it was very formulaic.

 

I think it's a cute supplement. I may buy the elementary or high school level for my kids as supplements... but not as a core program.

[....]

For a student doing Saxon math books in their entirety (that is doing every single problem) as his primary math, can LOF books be just read as a fun review without doing any of the problems? Can a student benefit with just reading the books if they use another program as their main math like Saxon? Or does LOF use problems to discover concepts like AOPS Pre-Algebra does (which ds is also doing slowly as a supplement)?

 

It depends on what level of LOF books.  The elementary books, I guess you could read through and not solve the problems.  It would probably be a waste of time/money to do that with the later books.  Most of the teaching is in working the problems.  He also doesn't explain everything step by step sometimes...the problems do make jumps in reasoning.  At Fractions, the author also expects that the student is reading the book on his own and wrestling with the problems independently.

 

If you guys are doing well with Saxon, I would just stick with that and not add in LOF.  It would be an expensive supplement if you have something that's already working. 

 

My oldest daughter spent the last two years working through AOPS Prealgebra and now she's slowly working through the LOF Beginning Algebra book.  The word problems in algebra (setting up an equation/unknown with a word problem) are just a really big jump for her.  I'm not a math expert, but I don't think the Algebra 1 book is light.  The 6 boxes approach with the distance/rate/time problems...I actually remember learning that in school (8th grade, maybe?).    

 

I think the theory was with LOF...the story line was supposed to help them remember different problems and how they were solved (within the context of the story).  

 

I wish someone with a lot of experience in teaching math could comment on the later LOF books.             

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks for your insight. I am referring to LOF Fractions on up for a kid that has completed Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 successfully for fun reading. We actually has several LOF books already and ds likes the story line but I am wondering if just reading will help give a kid good at math a nice review and perhaps more insight.

[NittanyJen]

Thanks for your insight. I am referring to LOF Fractions on up for a kid that has completed Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 successfully for fun reading. We actually has several LOF books already and ds likes the story line but I am wondering if just reading will help give a kid good at math a nice review and perhaps more insight.

I would not personally add Fred to Saxon at the upper levels. Fred is already a complete program unto itself unless you blast through it, and if you blast through, you miss the depth of the math it includes, so why bother, unless you bought it cheap? Few middle and high school students have the time and patience to do two simultaneous complete programs.

 

You might get away with the earliest books-- Fractions, Decimals, and Pre-A with biology, since they are shorter books (but still deep) and going at a slower pace won't matter too much. But going through Algebra and Advanced algebra simultaneously with a beast like Saxon would either be brutal, or you'd be necessarily giving Fred short shrift.

[Dmmetler]

My DD tends to do LOF in breaks from her main math program (AOPS)-so this year, she did AOPS PA and LOF Beginning Algebra, with LOF mostly being last summer and in breaks when AOPS got just to be too much. This summer, she's working through LOF Advanced Algebra and will start AOPS Introduction to Algebra in the fall (and has LOF Geometry on the shelf as well). LOF seems to work well for her as the first introduction to a topic, and she could probably use it, especially since the Home Companion is now included in the expanded edition and the Zillions books are available, as her sole program, but she also really likes AOPS and benefits from the different styles. Since she's young for her math level, I have zero problems with her going through the same math content more than once or a grade level taking more than a year.

 

 

[NittanyJen]

Consecutively is not all that uncommon, for a host of reasons, particularly when doing higher level math young.  I think that is different from doing two primary programs concurrently.

[NittanyJen]

Resurrecting this thread-- I don't post exact scores, but my older kiddo (the one who has used Fred almost exclusively) just got his PSAT scores.  As a a 9th grader, he scored very, very high (normed against the 10th grade class, according to the score report).  Life of Fred-- validated in our home.