Having kids start college at 12??

[I.Dup.]

This seems like such a neat family! But why start your kids in college classes THAT early, can't they only complete a 2-year degree unless they go off to university?

 

http://www.today.com/news/meet-family-who-sent-six-kids-college-age-12-1C9316706

 

WDYT?

[FriedClams]

They sound like reasonable, balanced, healthy kids with great parents.

 

I'm all for it!

[I.Dup.]

They sound like reasonable, balanced, healthy kids with great parents.

 

I'm all for it!

 

I totally agree!! I'm just wondering how that would play out. If they start at 12, they may be able to complete their AA degree by 14, but then what? Obviously I don't want to send my kids to university at 14...

[junepep]

They sound like a wonderful family, and according to the article they make time for the kids to interact with their age group peers as well. It seems like a very reasonable solution to a tricky problem -- what DO you do with a highly accelerated child that has surpassed your knowledge in a subject that they're intensely passionate about?

 

It's nice to see that they outsourced when they felt that their children needed more enrichment / knowledge than they had. I hope that I'm able to make the same unselfish decisions about my own girls if they develop an intense passion for a particular career. It's not like the children in that family can't change jobs in their thirties if they find that their interests change.

[vonfirmath]

My husband participated in a simlar program at the University of WA (went to a special program instead of 7th grade. In "8th grade" was dumped into the regular college environment.

 

For HIM, he says he was not ready and it was TERRIBLE. But I know another girl who used this boost to finish her Masters when most kids were finishing their bachelors and did great.

 

And Honestly, I don't know what would have done well for my husband. He'd have acted up and been bored left in the public middle school class room as well.

[Crimson Wife]

Why couldn't they commute to a 4 year university? My kids aren't on that kind of trajectory, but I wouldn't have any more problem taking them to UC Berkeley for classes than I would taking them to the local CC.

[Melissa B]

 

I totally agree!! I'm just wondering how that would play out. If they start at 12, they may be able to complete their AA degree by 14, but then what? Obviously I don't want to send my kids to university at 14...

 

 

If you don't want to send your kids to university at 14 it probably wouldn't work for your family. :D

 

We moved to the town we are in specifically so we can send our kids to the university at 14 and they can continue to live at home. However, they are dual enrolled, so they will have more options at age 17-18 than students that choose to graduate homeschool early. But our kids would be able to graduate university at age 17 or 18 if that is what they chose to do.

[TeenagerMom]

This seems like such a neat family! But why start your kids in college classes THAT early, can't they only complete a 2-year degree unless they go off to university?

 

http://www.today.com...ge-12-1C9316706

 

WDYT?

 

 

I think that would depend on where you live. We have a Community college turned state university branch only 20 minutes from our house and between online classes and IRL, a 4 yr degree can be completed there depending on your major. They have a limited offering, but for someone seeking a teaching, general Bachelor, or Technology degree, it is doable.

 

I can't imagine my 12 yr old, 7th grader taking college level courses now though. Our plan is to start college level classes at age 15-16 provided that she can get the ACT scores needed for entrance. She has to complete Algebra and Geometry first which in line to be finished by the end of her 9th grade year (she came home from PS in October).

 

My now 10 yr old 4th grader should be ready for the ACT around age 13-14 since he's been home all along and is advanced in Math.

[kiana]

If it works for them and the kids are happy and thriving, great. One of the graduate students in my program just turned 18 and had a very succesful undergraduate experience.

 

The things I'd watch out for are -- in my opinion -- someone who starts college early aiming at a degree rather than just a few courses NEEDS to be good enough to be in the top, in order for it to be advantageous. I wouldn't start them if they're just going to be average. It doesn't do any good to have an 18 year old who wants to apply to medical schools but has a 3.1 undergraduate GPA, when they could have been in the very top if they'd started a bit later.

[I.Dup.]

If you don't want to send your kids to university at 14 it probably wouldn't work for your family. :D

 

We moved to the town we are in specifically so we can send our kids to the university at 14 and they can continue to live at home. However, they are dual enrolled, so they will have more options at age 17-18 than students that choose to graduate homeschool early. But our kids would be able to graduate university at age 17 or 18 if that is what they chose to do.

 

It honestly isn't something I have even thought of or knew was possible! I was surprised that people were sending their 14 yo's to CC classes, 16 was the earliest age I had heard of (shows what I know!). I know that they can complete their AA degree by 18 for very little or no money. If they go further than that (work on their bachelor's) do they still get extra financial aid for being younger, or are you having to pay the same amount for their education, just earlier?

[prairiewindmomma]

Dh went to a 4 year university out west at an early age. If we are in that situation with our own children, we'd prefer they go to a 4 year over a 2 year.

 

Our local (very good) university regularly has jr. high and high school aged students in their math and science classes. You can choose to have visiting status (no university credit awarded--doesn't hurt you for admissions elsewhere) or as a degree seeking student.

[Spy Car]

Why couldn't they commute to a 4 year university? My kids aren't on that kind of trajectory, but I wouldn't have any more problem taking them to UC Berkeley for classes than I would taking them to the local CC.

 

Go Bears! :D

 

Bill

[Allearia]

My older son started auditing classes at a university at age 10 in the area of his passion. We really don't want him going full time or going away to college any time soon, I want him to go at the regular age. He isn't earning college credit yet but could if we paid for it. At least for our family we continue to work on other subjects at different levels at home, and he has friends and usually hangs out with kids his own age. Hopefully we can keep him happy going slower in other areas and working at a high level at his area of interest, we will see how that actually works out. He is really thriving, and I try to balance that with having a lot of time to go broad in other areas and free time to hang out with friends and play outside or read. It sort of scares me and I doubt myself all the time that we are making the right decision, but as long as he is happy we will go with it.

[Melissa B]

It honestly isn't something I have even thought of or knew was possible! I was surprised that people were sending their 14 yo's to CC classes, 16 was the earliest age I had heard of (shows what I know!). I know that they can complete their AA degree by 18 for very little or no money. If they go further than that (work on their bachelor's) do they still get extra financial aid for being younger, or are you having to pay the same amount for their education, just earlier?

 

That's going to vary by state, but in FL all (undergrad) college classes taken before high school graduation are free.

[I.Dup.]

Okay, so it would cost the same for university if they do it at 14 versus 19?

 

ETA: I didn't see the above comment. How would I find that out? As far as I know, everyone around here just knows about "Running start" which is completing your 2-year degree by high school graduation.

[weederberries]

We have several 4-year universities within commuter distance and I would pursue this if my kids were on track for it. Of course, they would live at home until I deem them ready. DH graduated from public school at 17 and moved out to go to university only to find that he couldn't sign the lease, put utilities in his name, etc. It was a pain for his roommates who had to sign for everything.

 

I do think that by sending kids to college so early, they almost must get advanced degrees because I can think of very few companies and organizations who would give a 17 year old a professional job, even if they are degreed.

[wapiti]

Naturally there are exceptions, but IMO it does not make sense for the vast majority of accelerated learners to start "college" - as in, graduated from high school and seeking a degree - that young. I believe that, for most, the superior alternative is to take advanced coursework without graduating them from high school (which, of course, might include college classes). This may set them up nicely for potential admission and scholarships to highly selective schools/prestigious programs when they're closer to the usual age for high school graduation. It's one thing to graduate someone a year early; six years is an entirely different matter. In the article, the mom says the kids are not brilliant but average, which is probably not accurate.

 

This topic has been discussed before, FWIW. I'll try to find the links if I can. Eta, try here http://forums.welltr...g-into-college/ and here http://forums.welltr...-college-early/

[momto2Cs]

Hmmm. My children plan on starting at the local community/junior college around 15 or 16, and personally, I think that's early enough. Being academically able to start at an earlier age is one thing, but then I wonder about the maturity level of a 12 year old in a college class? JMHO.

[8filltheheart]

It sounds like it was a completely positive experience for the family in the article.

 

From our perspective, we are selective about what courses we allow younger kids to take. They are in classes with college age students. In humanities courses (these are the courses that we are the most leery of for younger kids), conversations and reading selections can be very adult in nature.

 

The other linked threads go into depth about the pros and cons. There are definite advantages to having students be able to take courses. I am incredibly thankful that our 11th grader has been able to math and science. But, getting schools to admit younger students, in our experience, requires proving that all other options have been exhausted. (IOW, you can't simply walk into a 4 yr university and say, "I am going to enroll my student." You have to apply and be accepted just like any other college student. CCs are so flooded with unemployed adults that many are refusing to admit dual enrolled students or are enforcing no one under 16.)

 

So, I do not believe this quote: "I don't have any brilliant children,†she contends. “I'm not brilliant. My husband's not brilliant. We're just average folks.†Who inspired six children to enter college before they became teenagers.

 

Avg kids cannot enter college that young and thrive. Those kids are definitely not avg kids.

[CourtneyBrooke]

I was coming here to post this article. What a terrific family! And humble, too.

 

I think WAY more children could do this, if their parents were a supportive, driving force. Example: My children are in a church program where they memorize entire chapters of the Bible. My 7 year old has memorized the entire book of James. People ask how it's possible. Easy: daily effort and time, as well as parental involvement. Too many parents aren't involved in their child's education or gifts (whatever they may be). I would dare say more homeschooling parents are involved, but even they have specifics that they focus on and those they don't (for example, choosing education over sports, or sports over music, etc).

 

Most kids could do so much more with their lives if they were gently pushed and encouraged. It's not always easy. I have one child who constantly pushes back, wanting to take the easy route. But I know he's capable of so much more, so I keep pushing him in that direction. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. But it's always worth a try.

[8filltheheart]

I was coming here to post this article. What a terrific family! And humble, too.

 

I think WAY more children could do this, if their parents were a supportive, driving force. Example: My children are in a church program where they memorize entire chapters of the Bible. My 7 year old has memorized the entire book of James. People ask how it's possible. Easy: daily effort and time, as well as parental involvement. Too many parents aren't involved in their child's education or gifts (whatever they may be). I would dare say more homeschooling parents are involved, but even they have specifics that they focus on and those they don't (for example, choosing education over sports, or sports over music, etc).

 

Most kids could do so much more with their lives if they were gently pushed and encouraged. It's not always easy. I have one child who constantly pushes back, wanting to take the easy route. But I know he's capable of so much more, so I keep pushing him in that direction. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. But it's always worth a try.

 

I disagree. The avg 12 yr old is not going to be up to reading Milton and doing multiple page opinion papers. They are not going to able to discern rhetorical arguments--most 12 yr olds are not functioning on a completely analytical level which is expected of college students. They are not going to be ready for calculus. (that is the lowest level of math that is typically considered college level.) etc.

[Embassy]

It sounds very expensive!! :)

[I.Dup.]

It sounds very expensive!! :)

 

That's what I was wondering...? If my children could complete their undergraduate before high school graduation and have it be no-cost, I can totally see it being worth it to start at 14. I just don't know if that's the case?

[regentrude]

Hmmm. My children plan on starting at the local community/junior college around 15 or 16, and personally, I think that's early enough. Being academically able to start at an earlier age is one thing, but then I wonder about the maturity level of a 12 year old in a college class? JMHO.

 

Not all "college classes" are created equal.

Nor is going away to full-time college the same thing as taking college classes in certain subjects while still living at home.

 

My DD who just turned 16 has been taking classes at the local STEM university since she was 13, when she took algebra based college physics for life science majors. At 14, she started taking French courses, and is now finishing calculus based engineering physics.

 

At no point have we been interested in having her finish a lightweight college degree at a younger age; we use these classes so that she is prepared for a challenging major at a selective university.

[Melissa B]

I disagree. The avg 12 yr old is not going to be up to reading Milton and doing multiple page opinion papers. They are not going to able to discern rhetorical arguments--most 12 yr olds are not functioning on a completely analytical level which is expected of college students. They are not going to be ready for calculus. (that is the lowest level of math that is typically considered college level.) etc.

 

Why would they necessarily be reading Milton or taking Calculus?

 

 

My average dd dual enrolled at the local university at 14. She will take College Algebra, Precalculus, Statistics and Survey of Calculus. By the time she gets to her survey class, she'll be 17. She plans to earn her masters without ever seeing a Calc 1 class. And she has taken Comp 1 and Comp 2 and they don't read anything the likes of Milton. Here you really can just walk in and say you want to register your student. There aren't any hoops. You just show up with an ACT or SAT test score.

[wapiti]

Why would they necessarily be reading Milton or taking Calculus?

 

 

My average dd dual enrolled at the local university at 14. She will take College Algebra, Precalculus, Statistics and Survey of Calculus. By the time she gets to her survey class, she'll be 17. She plans to earn her masters without ever seeing a Calc 1 class. And she has taken Comp 1 and Comp 2 and they don't read anything the likes of Milton. Here you really can just walk in and say you want to register your student. There aren't any hoops. You just show up with an ACT or SAT test score.

 

This may or may not be a plan for a college "degree," but is it a college education?

 

Not all "college classes" are created equal.

 

...

 

At no point have we been interested in having her finish a lightweight college degree at a younger age; we use these classes so that she is prepared for a challenging major at a selective university.

:iagree:

I think this says more about the college than it does about the kids.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

Why would they necessarily be reading Milton or taking Calculus?

 

 

My average dd dual enrolled at the local university at 14. She will take College Algebra, Precalculus, Statistics and Survey of Calculus. By the time she gets to her survey class, she'll be 17. She plans to earn her masters without ever seeing a Calc 1 class. And she has taken Comp 1 and Comp 2 and they don't read anything the likes of Milton. Here you really can just walk in and say you want to register your student. There aren't any hoops. You just show up with an ACT or SAT test score.

 

The lower level math courses you list are not collegel level classes. They are typically considered remedial math b/c college alg/pre-cal should be easily taken in high school. Basically, paying for those classes means you are paying for something that can be completed at home. AP stats and cal can be completed at home. So, your student could have higher level math (AP cal is higher level than survey of cal) simply through high school courses. That is not quite the same as holding masters degree in computer science at 17 (which is a very intensive in higher level maths), etc. The students in the article were earning degrees, not just dual enrolling, and were earning degrees in STEM fields.

 

BTW, once a student has completed comp 1 and 2 (which can also be earned via APs), college lit is the next step. In order to have 4 yrs of English on a high school transcript (which is expected even if comp credit is earned), 200+ level lit courses are going to be the option. Reading high level lit **should** be the expectation of a college level course.

 

ETA: All of the universities my kids have dual enrolled in have required a minimum ACT score of 28 or a CR/M SAT score of 1250. Those scores are also not avg scores for 12-14 yr olds. So, even if test scores were all that were required (our universities required more), that is still a fairly high bar for younger students.

[Chelli]

I know of the college that they are sending their children to. It is a private 4-year Christian college in their town. It is a very homeschooling friendly school. I have a feeling that makes the college more willing to work with them and their family.

 

I think it's pretty awesome! I would love to have children that were that passionate about something academic.

[kiana]

Finite math is usually a lower-division math class, about the same level as survey of calculus/applied calculus/precalculus.

[8filltheheart]

oops, triple post

[8filltheheart]

oops, triple post

[8filltheheart]

Finite math is usually a lower-division math class, about the same level as survey of calculus/applied calculus/precalculus.

 

 

Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking it was along the lines of discrete math.

[Shellydon]

We will be looking at this for high school. Many of the basic coursework classes I took in college are easily at the level of a well educated homeschooled student.

[MistyMountain]

I think they sound like a great family and I love how humble they are. It has something I have given thought too but I guess we aren't on the path for at the moment since dd is in a charter school. I think a lot of kids are capable of that and there are definite advantages to getting a degree early. The one thing I would worry about is picking a major at that age. Kids change so much that something they are passionate about at 10,11,12 might not be what they are passionate about or want to pursue a career in as an adult. They could always get multiple degrees though.

[kiana]

Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking it was along the lines of discrete math.

 

You are actually right -- but it's usually discrete math with very little theory and with applications to business. Sort of like the commonly taught course 'calculus for business and social sciences'. The customary prerequisite is college algebra (like business calculus, which also has a prerequisite of college algebra).

[justamouse]

Hmmm. My children plan on starting at the local community/junior college around 15 or 16, and personally, I think that's early enough. Being academically able to start at an earlier age is one thing, but then I wonder about the maturity level of a 12 year old in a college class? JMHO.

 

This.

 

Just because my child has the ability to read Anna Kareninia, doesn't mean they are mature enough to. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.

 

Homeschooling, for my family, is not about a race to get to and done with college.

[I.Dup.]

 

That's going to vary by state, but in FL all (undergrad) college classes taken before high school graduation are free.

 

How would I find this out about my state (WA)? Running start is supposed to be entered in 11th grade. That's all I can find out.

[I.Dup.]

Homeschooling, for my family, is not about a race to get to and done with college.

 

If it's true that they can complete a bachelor's degree by high school graduation for no cost, I can absolutely see feeling the pressure to get that done. It would save the family and the would-be undergrad student a TON of money!

[8filltheheart]

 

 

If it's true that they can complete a bachelor's degree by high school graduation for no cost, I can absolutely see feeling the pressure to get that done. It would save the family and the would-be undergrad student a TON of money!

 

It's not quite that simple. First, most universities restrict the number of classes a high school student can dual enroll in to 2 per semester. Most states do not pay for dual enrolled credit.

 

CCs, otoh, typically let students dual enroll for more hrs. But again, most states require that you pay or pay for 1-2 courses.

 

 

[*Michelle*]

It doesn't seem like this family is racing their kids through school. The older ones are headed for or are in careers, including medicine and engineering. They also don't seem to have just rushed through their work. Their play alone shows that they're enjoying what they're learning.

[Lolly]

It honestly isn't something I have even thought of or knew was possible! I was surprised that people were sending their 14 yo's to CC classes, 16 was the earliest age I had heard of (shows what I know!). I know that they can complete their AA degree by 18 for very little or no money. If they go further than that (work on their bachelor's) do they still get extra financial aid for being younger, or are you having to pay the same amount for their education, just earlier?

 

If they have graduated from high school, the cost is the same as it would be to attend college later (without the addition of tuition increases between now and then!). They still can qualify for FAFSA or scholarships.

 

I know one family who send their dc to college very young. The oldest started at 15. THe next two at 13 and 14. They all live at home and attend the local 4 year (very highly competitive) state university that is only 15 minutes from their home. They are on academic scholarships. They all have 4.0 averages. THeir parents also claim that their children are average. I can tell you with great assurance that this is not the case. They are all exceptionally intelligent. (Eldest scored a 33 on the ACT at age 12. I have no idea what later attempts yielded.) Might be average within their own family, but they are clueless about the population at large! I'm guessing the eldest will graduate next year, after only 3 years of college, with a degree in nursing at 19. Also, I know the first has had a wonderful college experience. She has found like-minded friends and is having a fantastic (alcohol and drug free) time.

[I.Dup.]

If they have graduated from high school, the cost is the same as it would be to attend college later (without the addition of tuition increases between now and then!). They still can qualify for FAFSA or scholarships.

 

 

 

But if they are able to do college courses before they have officially graduated high school (certainly a 12 or 13 yo has not graduated high school?) they don't have to pay tuition? That sounds like the case at least in Florida, from what a PP shared, and maybe that's why the family in the above article does it that way?

[justamouse]

It doesn't seem like this family is racing their kids through school. The older ones are headed for or are in careers, including medicine and engineering. They also don't seem to have just rushed through their work. Their play alone shows that they're enjoying what they're learning.

 

 

 

I'm happy for them. Really. But the time that deep thinking needs is not something I'm willing to sacrifice so that they can go onto their careers. They have the rest of their lives for careers. This is a very short window before they go on to their adult lives, I'm not willing to exchange it for a cheap way out of college.

 

I could have totally been them, but it wouldn't have meant I got a better education. Again, that's not why I'm homeschooling. Two totally different goals.

 

And the play is exactly what gives it away. PLaying swords and knights is not ready to read Dostoyevsky, Churchill and other books that require the nuance of maturity.

[*Michelle*]

 

But if they are able to do college courses before they have officially graduated high school (certainly a 12 or 13 yo has not graduated high school?) they don't have to pay tuition? That sounds like the case at least in Florida, from what a PP shared, and maybe that's why the family in the above article does it that way?

 

 

That's correct for Florida. Here's a rundown of dual enrollment in the Sunshine state (PDF): http://www-sahs.stjohns.k12.fl.us/info/FL%20Dual%20Enrollment.pdf

 

I'm happy for them. Really. But the time that deep thinking needs is not something I'm willing to sacrifice so that they can go onto their careers. They have the rest of their lives for careers. This is a very short window before they go on to their adult lives, I'm not willing to exchange it for a cheap way out of college.

 

I could have totally been them, but it wouldn't have meant I got a better education. Again, that's not why I'm homeschooling. Two totally different goals.

 

And the play is exactly what gives it away. PLaying swords and knights is not ready to read Dostoyevsky, Churchill and other books that require the nuance of maturity.

 

 

But are those goals mutually exclusive? Playing knights may mean they're not ready to dive into Dostoyevsky, I agree, but that doesn't mean they're not capable of career development coursework. I mean, they wouldn't be ready for deep thinking right now either way, so why not knock out some college courses? I guess my thinking is that your entire life is for deep thinking. Reading a difficult book at 18 is going to be a different process than at 28, at 48, at 68. I'd rather get practical things out of the way first in order to create more time down the road.

[kiana]

And the play is exactly what gives it away. PLaying swords and knights is not ready to read Dostoyevsky, Churchill and other books that require the nuance of maturity.

 

 

Hey, there are plenty of adults who do that -- Society for Creative Anachronism? :D

[stripe]

I disagree. The avg 12 yr old is not going to be up to reading Milton and doing multiple page opinion papers. They are not going to able to discern rhetorical arguments--most 12 yr olds are not functioning on a completely analytical level which is expected of college students. They are not going to be ready for calculus. (that is the lowest level of math that is typically considered college level.) etc.

 

I think if "college level" work is so easy breezy for most kids, this suggests at least one of the following is true:

* high school is too easy

* college is too easy

 

It is entirely possible for high school level classes to be challenging and demanding.

[vonfirmath]

 

How would I find this out about my state (WA)? Running start is supposed to be entered in 11th grade. That's all I can find out.

 

 

The program my husband was part of at University of Washington is the Early Entrance Program through Robinson Center:

http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/programs/early-entrance-program/

[8filltheheart]

Looking at the FL link, it states "Pass the appropriate section of the college placement test.

• Meet any additional admissions criteria set by the postsecondary institution." That means scores and admission. Those require "something."

 

If college admissions is just easy, why do so many posters fret about starting high school with their homeschooled students? Obviously, it must be nothing special to complete college level work at extremely young ages????

 

Maybe it is b/c I have high school graduates/college students/college grad as well as a very accelerated high school student--but I have never witnessed university classes being accessible to the avg middle school student. ??? Seriously. Typically, my kids are ready for some university level courses during their jr and sr yrs of high school. The difference between 12, 14, and 16 is HUGE. And the university courses they take are the courses they are strong in.

[regentrude]

But are those goals mutually exclusive? Playing knights may mean they're not ready to dive into Dostoyevsky, I agree, but that doesn't mean they're not capable of career development coursework. I mean, they wouldn't be ready for deep thinking right now either way, so why not knock out some college courses?

 

What do you mean by "knock out some college courses" and "career development coursework"?

I guess I am having a fundamentally different view of what college means. College, to me is about the education, not about checking boxes.

If a young student needs the intellectual challenge of college coursework to thrive, I am all for it! But if he can't yet do deep thinking, why do low level classwork that is just barely high school level just so you can check off some required credits (for a not-so demanding major at a not-so demanding school)? Isn't that shortchanging the gifted student who has so much potential and could get so much out of his college education if he were taking classes when he can think deeply and get much out of a rigorous, in-depth class?

 

Just because a class is called "college" does not mean it is intellectually stimulating - or that the credit earned will be useful and transferable for this student when he decides to attend a university or choose a major that matches his potential.