NYT article on NYC Soda Ban Ruling

[SKL]

Everybody knows that before there were supersize sodas, nobody was ever fat.

[butterflymommy]

In a way, it would have been nice to see how the ban succeeds after a couple of years. Who wants to bet me that fat people will still manage to stay fat despite the disappearance of mega sodas?

 

 

This is what I always found so disturbing about the proposed legislation. No one could possibly think that banning a particular size of sweet soda, in particular venues, would make any difference whatsoever in obesity statistics. There are countless, endless other foods and amounts of foods one could eat to remain obese.

 

So clearly this was an issue of "control a little now so you can control more later" ... not a genuine attempt to improve the nutritional intake of NYers.

[Catwoman]

 

 

Not directed entirely at you saying this, but I'm am kinda tired of these comments. Not everyone can garden. Most of the year we cannot garden. I think out of the 6 years we have gardened here in NY only one year we had anything to show for it.

 

I suppose at least we had some exercise from digging in the dirt, but we had very little food from gardening. We'd be dead if we had to rely on it.

 

 

And probably the exercise thing wouldn't even be that great for you, anyway, what with it making you so thirsty for a big glass of soda and all. ;)

 

 

[Bang!Zoom!]

Fresh Market is beer and candy? :scared:

 

I'm going to go throw myself on the settee and weep in my hankie now.

 

No...sob is a better word.

 

Wonder what their peppers will cost? Ten bucks a piece?

[Catwoman]

Have you guys seen that soda fountain thing at home they sell at Bed Bath and Beyond now? Someone is sitting in the Bahamas laughing their butt off and getting a nice tan from that one.

 

 

Yeah, and I'm one of the idiots that helped finance their trip. :D

 

We bought the SodaStream thing because it looked like fun, but we ended up hardly ever using it, because it's so much easier to just open a bottle or can of soda. I have to admit that it's kind of cool, though, and a lot of people use it to make flavored seltzers and fizzy water with a bit of juice added, so it's not just for soda.

[Angel]

Huge sodas are a major factor in the obesity epidemic, which in turn leads to reduced life circumstances and early death.

 

Oh yea! We have the right to committ slow motion suicide. Yippie.

 

Bill

 

 

Yes, we do have the right. We have the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. My pursuit does not look like your pursuit, nor will we always agree on that pursuit ;) , but it is an amazing freedom that our country was founded on.

 

If drinking any size soda is what I want to do, it is within my rights to do so. There are many more harmful things out there that could be targeted than soda. What about the mass industry of the drug market these days. What about alcoholism. I don't see Prohibition making a return, even though alcohol is a major factor in certain diseases as well as drunk driving.

 

I don't believe the problem lies with the soda. There are much bigger issues here. I think it boils down to those that want a big government making decisions for those poor souls who are not "smart enough" to make the right ones (scary path that, though many, many Americans are preferring it these days), or a small government that believes that we as Americans are smart enough to make those decisions for ourselves.

 

It's kind of like parenting. You can tell your child over and over (and over) again that soda (or insert whatever) is bad for you, but once he turns 18 he is old enough to make that decision for himself. The government can provide us with food pyramids and healthy living guidelines, but in the end we are adults and we will make what decisions we want for ourselves.

[Spy Car]

 

 

Oh, brother. Ever heard of a family sharing an economy-sized purchase?

 

 

Sure. And I'm sure there are families that share economy-sized cartons of cigarettes too.

 

It does not make the consumption of sodas healthful. Or detract from the fact that disfunctional choices often (usually) run in families, and represent a threat to those families where soda drinking or cigarette smoking is the norm.

 

Bill

[Catwoman]

 

 

Sure. And I'm sure there are families that share economy-sized cartons of cigarettes too.

 

It does not make the consumption of sodas healthful. Or detract from the fact that disfunctional choices often (usually) run in families, and represent a threat to those families where soda drinking or cigarette smoking is the norm.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Bill, you seem to be looking for an argument here, but I don't think a single person has disagreed with you that both smoking and soda are harmful to your health.

[SKL]

Sure. And I'm sure there are families that share economy-sized cartons of cigarettes too.

 

It does not make the consumption of sodas healthful. Or detract from the fact that disfunctional choices often (usually) run in families, and represent a threat to those families where soda drinking or cigarette smoking is the norm.

 

Bill

 

 

So you actually think that all sodas should have been banned.

[Spy Car]

 

 

 

Bill, you seem to be looking for an argument here, but I don't think a single person has disagreed with you that both smoking and soda are harmful to your health.

 

 

Please don't start with this tactic (again).

 

I'm out. You have the last word. OK?

 

Bill

[FaithManor]

The thing is will Mayor B also ban aspartame, high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oil, and growth hormones in dairy products plus meats grown with antibiotics in the feed. ALL of these things would be HUGE improvements to public health....far more so than banning large drinks. Of course, HFCS is in most soda, so if he really wants to make a true dent in public health, he's simply got to ban soda period.

 

We have John Hopkins medical school saying there is NO safe level of consumption of HFCS or Hydrogenated/hydrolyzed anything. None. This stuff is food plastic and it sets up in your arteries as such. I need to find the link for the med school that test the arteries of 20 or so people who died of arterialschlerosis (Sp?) and found that the clogging wasn't normal, regular, fats like butter...you know, nature made fats. The arteries were plugged up with hydrogenated oils.

 

There was another HFCS study that was incredibly glaring. All that to say, maybe what the government ought to do if it cares a flying leap about public health, is ban the poison in the food to begin with...they ban certain pesticides and chemicals due to public health risk, why not killer food additives?

 

Here is a brief article on hydrogenated oil.

http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/alerts/heart_health/JohnsHopkinsHeartHealthAlert_1967-1.html

 

I, for one, am the blasted, condemned, most hated "fat person" that the government likes to point fingers at. We have a gym membership. I work out for one hour five times per week with a combo of cardio and weights getting my heart rate up to 66-75% of max for my age. Sometimes the personal trainer helps me and gives me advice. I eat only green and red veggies, chicken and fish, legumes, and the only fruit I've eaten for two years now is citrus. When I can't stand it a the holidays while everyone else is eating dessert after dessert and I am not, I have a small amount of dark chocolate. I drink water, occasionally milk, and unsweetened ice tea. Rarely do I consume more than 1300 calories in any given day. At one point, a doctor had me on 500 calories per day thinking I'd lose weight. HA! I didn't - had some good dizzy spells though.

 

It appears that years of trying to convince nine different doctors that I had thyroid trouble and NOT getting treatment for it only to finally find out that I do indeed have thyroid trouble and wasn't getting access to the right tests, toasted my thyroid and my metabolism. Setting it right is a virtually losing proposition that has cost me nothing but heartache and money since the insurance company is loathe to pay for much of anything.

 

So, as one of the Americans who does EVERYTHING right and can't lose weight but is most vilified for being overweight, I see the issue has far more complicated than banning toys in McDonald's kid's meals, or large size sodas, and the like. It's so much more complicated than this that it is mind boggling. But, I still maintain that the government ought to clean it's own house and admit it was wrong to approve a lot of these food additives and ban the dang things before it starts telling people what and what not to eat and how much of it. That would be the best first step it could make towards public health.

 

Did any of you see the news article about the Dairy Association petitioning the FDA to add aspartame to skim milk? Makes me nauseous just thinking about it. The big red herring was that it would sweeten the milk without adding a lot of sugar and that schools could then add chocolate and get the kids to drink it without adding a bunch of calories. Seriously, just ban milk in school. Make them drink water. I mean, honestly, aspartame is so controversial in the medical community somebody should be flogged for trying to market this to schools.

 

Faith

[Spy Car]

 

 

So you actually think that all sodas should have been banned.

 

 

No. I'd put a "sin tax" on sodas so "economy-sized" portions would be a thing of the past, and otherwise treat soda drinking the same way we've been dealing with cigarette consumption. We should try to change habits in the interest of health.

 

But I'm done responding in this thread. Bye.

 

Bill

[TXMomof4]

 

 

One can dramically effect ones quality of life and have an impact on ones natural lifespan by making good or poor choices about diet, exercise, and lifestyle choices.

 

Drinking soda is a very poor choice.

 

Bill

 

 

Haven't people fought for freedom of choice for a long time in this country?

[Bang!Zoom!]

I attended a Monsanto protest just a while ago. Related, even though it's a whole nother bag of chips..err..I mean..uh...you know...

 

If they can assess a sin tax, why not open up the channels for a "saint" food supply and make it more affordable?

 

Having lived in two mean 3 superfund areas (but really, where isn't there one?) - I couldn't help but lay awake and wonder that night if lobby power for the organic food (and yes, it's highly debatable what is classified as organic) - wasn't behind some of it.

 

Organic costs more overall start to finish. They can demand more money because of it's scarcity and media.

 

It's just all so wrong when we know so much.

[FaithManor]

 

4.99 for a cauliflower that is past it's prime. In the twenty years I've lived in this area, only twice have I been able to purchase an edible cauliflower.

 

And artichoke. Artichoke kills me. 1.69 for one about the size of your hand.

 

Apples crack me up. The affordable are not from the local orchards. I would like to know what price people pay for NY apples...speak up if you buy NY apples. We get washington apples at 1.99/lb now.

 

I will be retiring to a place where I can eat well.

Maybe that is where there are plenty of Asian or Amish markets. Maybe that will be where I can grow my own.

 

Well, all I can say is that in my area, we have many Amish farm markets plus a lovely Mennonite food store that has LOTS of organics at reasonable prices and their conventionally grown produce is higher quality and lower priced than any grocery chain. What you can't get there, you can get at Meijer and their produce section in most of the Mid-Michigan Meijer stores I've visited are wonderful! At the Amish market, during harvest time I can get three or four large red peppers for a $1.00. I buy a huge amount of them up and dehydrate them so we have red pepper all winter without eating imports from Costa Rica or wherever. The food here is cheap by comparison to many other states.

 

Cauliflower, very fresh, very nice - $1.99 the other day.

Artichoke of the size you indicated would be right around 99cents since it's sold by the lb.

Apples are probably $3.50 for a 5 lb. bag. At harvest time, I buy them by the bushel for a very reasonable price.

 

Gack those prices you quoted are terrible! Granted, higher income families can choose to prioritize spending and pay for healthy foods. But, how is a low income family supposed to do that? That's just not doable!

 

Faith

[Bang!Zoom!]

Don't they "gas" import fruits and vegetables to halt the natural ripening?

 

I must say, the best food I've ever had is off the West Coast.

 

The local Californian fruits and vegetables are spectacularly good. Nothing else like it.

[thessa516]

I can get three or four large red peppers for a $1.00.

 

Insert jealousy emoticon here. I budget $3 per organic pepper. I get excited when they go on sale for $2.50 each.

[Joker]

Insert jealousy emoticon here. I budget $3 per organic pepper. I get excited when they go on sale for $2.50 each.

 

 

I just paid $3.49 for a conventional red pepper. That's seems to be the norm here. I get absolutely giddy when we have actual Florida peppers on sale. Organic isn't gonna happen.

[Catwoman]

 

 

Insert jealousy emoticon here. I budget $3 per organic pepper. I get excited when they go on sale for $2.50 each.

 

 

Same here. It's such a rip-off.

 

And don't even get me started on $2.50 for a puny little artichoke. :glare:

[Bang!Zoom!]

Are red peppers hard to grow. This makes me so mad.

[FaithManor]

Same here. It's such a rip-off.

 

And don't even get me started on $2.50 for a puny little artichoke. :glare:

 

 

Certified organic is very expensive especially if one is certified through say Oregon Tilth. The local organic farmers have more angst than you can imagine and the paperwork is a nightmare in quantity plus the constant testing for cross contamination is very expensive.

 

While I do buy certified organics from Meijer, during harvest season I buy from an Amish farmer who advertises organic practices and is a sweetie who truly does have a very healthy farm, but obviously does not jump the hoops of becoming certified because that would be a violation of his religious lifestyle. That's one way that our locals can get access to absolutely gorgeous, organic produce at low prices. He has quite a high yield and generally sells for less than conventionally grown. Many Mennonite farms do the same thing. Those roadside, no frills, produce stands are my friends! But, you have to live in a low COL area with farmland going at a reasonable price and not heavily populated by Big Ag in order to attract Amish and Mennonite farmers to the community. When so many dairy farms in our area went belly-up, the equipment and what not was auctioned off at discount, though a reasonable price for used equipment. But, the land....well, no one was standing in line to buy 300, 400, a thousand acres of land. Amish and Mennonite families came from Pennsylvania and Ohio and bought it up for a pittance compared to what it was worth and since there was a strong move in the area to get away from pesticides, herbicides, and some fertilizers due to well-contamination, they began fulfilling a market for healthier grown foods. Some organic beef growers moved in though they are sporadic.

 

It makes it very hard for me to eat other places. Between what I can get locally, and what I put up at harvest, we are very used to truly ripe, truly healthy produce. Conventionally grown and trucked in just tastes so awful by comparison.

 

I am spoiled! I guess the trade off would be that the rest of the economy is in the tank. But, for those of you looking to move, IF you can find employment in central Michigan, you can probably buy a very nice home for a piddly bit of money compared to what you've paid in many parts of the country. The big question is IF??? Employment is not easily come by in this state!

 

Faith

[Lady Florida.]

If they are so horrifically bad why are they still legal?

 

 

For the same reason alcohol is still legal and Prohibition didn't work.

 

There are several issues with Bloomberg's ban:

 

 

4. What's to stop restaurants from bringing glasses that hold say, 12 ounces, and giving free refills?

[nukeswife]

The main point for me in all of this is that I'm sick of people telling me that if I prefer to drink soda or buy processed foods or whatnot that the government needs to step in and "Save" me from myself. I'm not stupid, I don't need you police my choices. Like another poster said by being an American Citizen I'm guaranteed the pursuit of happiness. My pursuit happens to include having whatever darn size soda I feel like. I may not be your perfect image of health, but you know what, TOO BAD. If you think soda or cigarettes, or alcohol, or (insert other item of choice here) is the devil then don't partake in them and leave me alone.

[justamouse]

 

There was another HFCS study that was incredibly glaring. All that to say, maybe what the government ought to do if it cares a flying leap about public health, is ban the poison in the food to begin with...they ban certain pesticides and chemicals due to public health risk, why not killer food additives?

 

 

Faith

 

 

:iagree:

[radiobrain]

Sometimes you need a 64 oz soft drink. Sometimes you share it with 4 family members. Having the option to buy something doesn't mean you are going to OD on it, jeez.

 

I rarely drink soda. When I do, I would like to choose how much I would like to purchase. I do not want anyone other than myself deciding what they think is best for me, as they don't know me. Some times if I am going to have something decadent and unhealthy, I make up for it in other ways....

 

I dislike people who assume that others are too stupid to make their own decisions. Or decide that if they see someone make a decision different from theirs that that is ALWAYS their choice. Just because something is available, doesn't mean people's brains fall out of their heads when they see something.

 

BTW, I THREW OUT a bunch of those scary "little hugs" sugar juice things that a parent brought in for a class to share. Sorry, I will not give that to anyone's kid. Am I going to assume that that's all she buys? NO. Do I even care? NO.

[radiobrain]

I also don't care if someone uses dope, alcohol, smokes, eats cheetos, bathes in camel spit, worships a lemon, is afraid of bacon, likes to dance in the street, etc.

 

 

I do, however, think that people who crack their knuckles are disgusting and they obviously don't know that that can cause them to have arthritis, so in order to save them from themselves I would like to start a petition to ban excessive knuckle cracking in public places. :rolleyes:

[nukeswife]

Sometimes you need a 64 oz soft drink. Sometimes you share it with 4 family members. Having the option to buy something doesn't mean you are going to OD on it, jeez.

 

I rarely drink soda. When I do, I would like to choose how much I would like to purchase. I do not want anyone other than myself deciding what they think is best for me, as they don't know me. Some times if I am going to have something decadent and unhealthy, I make up for it in other ways....

 

I dislike people who assume that others are too stupid to make their own decisions. Or decide that if they see someone make a decision different from theirs that that is ALWAYS their choice. Just because something is available, doesn't mean people's brains fall out of their heads when they see something.

 

BTW, I THREW OUT a bunch of those scary "little hugs" sugar juice things that a parent brought in for a class to share. Sorry, I will not give that to anyone's kid. Am I going to assume that that's all she buys? NO. Do I even care? NO.

 

I also don't care if someone uses dope, alcohol, smokes, eats cheetos, bathes in camel spit, worships a lemon, is afraid of bacon, likes to dance in the street, etc.

 

 

I do, however, think that people who crack their knuckles are disgusting and they obviously don't know that that can cause them to have arthritis, so in order to save them from themselves I would like to start a petition to ban excessive knuckle cracking in public places. :rolleyes:

 

 

Radiobrain, you are my hero :hurray:

[DragonFaerie]

 

Wow, it's like you totally get me. It's brutally hard to find camel spit around these parts though.

 

 

 

Is it wrong that I read this as caramel? :D

[jujsky]

Sure. And I'm sure there are families that share economy-sized cartons of cigarettes too.

 

It does not make the consumption of sodas healthful. Or detract from the fact that disfunctional choices often (usually) run in families, and represent a threat to those families where soda drinking or cigarette smoking is the norm.

 

Bill

 

 

I don't know about that. My brother and I grew up drinking soda. My mom grew up poor and didn't often get "luxuries" like soda or junk food so she made up for it as an adult and didn't restrict us. There was never juice in our house, but always bottles of Pepsi. As adults, neither of us much care for soda. I'll drink water, tea, or lemonade over soda if I have the choice. I have a couple of friends who are addicted to soda and all of them were denied or had soda strictly limited as children. I'm not saying that we should pump our kids full of soda to avoid adult addiction (soda is a once in awhile thing at my house) but I don't believe the correlation you're stating is true in regards to soda. Also, you misspelled "dysfunctional."

[Catwoman]

 

I don't know about that. My brother and I grew up drinking soda. My mom grew up poor and didn't often get "luxuries" like soda or junk food so she made up for it as an adult and didn't restrict us. There was never juice in our house, but always bottles of Pepsi. As adults, neither of us much care for soda. I'll drink water, tea, or lemonade over soda if I have the choice. I have a couple of friends who are addicted to soda and all of them were denied or had soda strictly limited as children. I'm not saying that we should pump our kids full of soda to avoid adult addiction (soda is a once in awhile thing at my house) but I don't believe the correlation you're stating is true in regards to soda. Also, you misspelled "dysfunctional."

 

 

:iagree:

[Bang!Zoom!]

On a short errand today, I noticed the gas station sign said, "Any size fountain soda, .39 cents."

 

I'm still mad about red peppers. I want those for 39 cents each.

 

I have no idea if there are local stands around here, I'll have to check that link and search.

 

I think I'll change my avatar to a red pepper in protest.

[Catwoman]

On a short errand today, I noticed the gas station sign said, "Any size fountain soda, .39 cents."

 

I'm still mad about red peppers. I want those for 39 cents each.

 

I have no idea if there are local stands around here, I'll have to check that link and search.

 

I think I'll change my avatar to a red pepper in protest.

 

I like the new avatar. I would have much preferred a picture of a really big soda, but the pepper is nice, too. ;)

[Firefly]

I think soda (and junk food in general) are a plague on human kind and wouldn't shed any tears if they disappeared off the face of the earth, but... if I want the choice to be able to decide for myself to drink raw milk, unpasteurized honey, etc., I have to allow that the other side also has the right to make food choices for themselves. Just my .02.

[Catwoman]

I think soda (and junk food in general) are a plague on human kind and wouldn't shed any tears if they disappeared off the face of the earth, but... if I want the choice to be able to decide for myself to drink raw milk, unpasteurized honey, etc., I have to allow that the other side also has the right to make food choices for themselves. Just my .02.

 

:iagree:

 

I want my soda and junk food, but I fully support the idea that you should be able to decide for yourself that you want all of the healthy stuff. :D

[nmoira]

I think soda (and junk food in general) are a plague on human kind and wouldn't shed any tears if they disappeared off the face of the earth, but... if I want the choice to be able to decide for myself to drink raw milk, unpasteurized honey, etc., I have to allow that the other side also has the right to make food choices for themselves. Just my .02.

 

I'm with you, but I don't want to subsidize unhealthy food choices, as is done with HFCS, corn syrup, corn starch and soy oil (and I don't even want to know what else).

[Firefly]

 

I'm with you, but I don't want to subsidize unhealthy food choices, as is done with HFCS, corn syrup, corn starch and soy oil (and I don't even want to know what else).

 

 

:iagree: ITA.

[SKL]

It isn't just about soda, though. Does anyone think they'll stop at big cups of soda? Once they get people thinking it's up to the government to decide what we eat, it will be one thing after another. Pretty soon you won't be allowed to eat anything that doesn't have a bean base. (And my daughter will die of starvation.)

 

I don't even drink soda, and I don't buy it, ever. (I did when I was young but I have no desire now.) But sometimes I like a McD's milkshake/frozen yogurt or a Panera caramel latte with whippy cream. I consider myself qualified to decide when it's appropriate to indulge in such things. No chubby mayor is going to tell me otherwise.

[nmoira]

It isn't just about soda, though. Does anyone think they'll stop at big cups of soda? Once they get people thinking it's up to the government to decide what we eat, it will be one thing after another. Pretty soon you won't be allowed to eat anything that doesn't have a bean base. (And my daughter will die of starvation.)

 

They'll not stop until we're all eating dust!

[DarlaS]

The government has a long history of acting in the interest of public health when it is endangered. If you don't think we are having an obesity crisis that is destroying the quality of life for many, making a huge impact on the nation's medical bills, and causing early death, then you kid yourself.

 

I've spent way too much time visiting in VA hospitals over the past year. You know how many men I've met who were in there to have their legs amputated because of their sugar consumption/obesity/diabetes problems? Too many to count.

 

We need to wake up!

 

Bill

 

Then why are they still subsidizing corn?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Or people! They want us eating PEOPLE!!!!

[nmoira]

Or people! They want us eating PEOPLE!!!!

 

 

*cough*soylentgreen*cough

[CupOCoffee]

NVM

 

~coffee~

[justamouse]

Then why are they still subsidizing corn?

 

 

Bingo.

[Spy Car]

 

 

Then why are they still subsidizing corn?

 

 

Because "they" [the government] despite common belief to the contrary, are not a monolith. As I stated myself there were tobacco subsidies in place in one agency at the same time other agencies of government at the Federal, State and Local levels were trying to curb cigarette consumption. These subsidies work at cross purposes to public health the same way corn subsidies do. Corn subsidies are part of the problem. That does not make soda a healthful beverage choice.

 

I feel like Godfather III :D

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

[nmoira]

I feel like Godfather III :D

 

Better than Rocky III. Worst theme song ever.

 

 

[Spy Car]

 

 

It's still hypocritical.

 

Not like I don't get how that stuff happens.

 

Wow, I've spent way too much time on this board today.

 

It is not hypocritical. The government is us. There are many factions, interests, and opinions that get expressed. Representative Democracy is a messy business. "The Government" does not function as one mind.

 

Some policies exacerbate problems, some try to solve problems. This is not new.

 

Bill

[CupOCoffee]

 

Is that "never mind I'm going to have coffee" or "never mind, love your friend coffee"?

 

A bit of both! Although threads like this call for something a little stronger me thinks. Too bad I have no wine in the house at the moment. OTOH, perhaps it's best, since after some wine I really might have let loose on how the gov't should stay out my pantry.

 

~coffee~

[phathui5]

I'm seriously asking a question, not being snarky. In NY, can you buy soda with food stamps?

 

ETA: Don't most fruit juices contain the same amount of sugar as a soda? Serious question. I don't have any juice in the house to check.

 

 

http://www.sugarstacks.com/beverages.htm

 

There is lots of sugar in drinks that aren't water or unsweetened tea/coffee.

[lewelma]

It was a big deal here a few months ago: the corner ruled that a woman did die from drinking too much coke. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8293647/Coca-Cola-addiction-linked-to-death

 

Ruth in NZ

[FaithManor]

Because "they" [the government] despite common belief to the contrary, are not a monolith. As I stated myself there were tobacco subsidies in place in one agency at the same time other agencies of government at the Federal, State and Local levels were trying to curb cigarette consumption. These subsidies work at cross purposes to public health the same way corn subsidies do. Corn subsidies are part of the problem. That does not make soda a healthful beverage choice.

 

I feel like Godfather III :D

 

Bill

 

Bill, you did not just bring up corn subsidies! You are going to make my head explode!!!! :willy_nilly:

 

Faith