SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[Izzy]

 

 

That's sort of what I was thinking. Thinking of all the "angry atheists" that I know, too, I wonder how many would be able to have a conversation without losing their cool.

 

The only person I talk to about my beliefs are DH. My brother has been an Athiest for 15 years or so and we have been talking a lot. He's sending me a bunch of books which should be here soon.

 

I could talk about my de-conversion very calmly to anyone willing to talk but I wouldn't be able to debate it. I know my experience but I'm not as well versed in my non belief as a believer is in their belief. I know Christianity, though, and am fairly confident there is not much I haven't heard or even said myself at one time. The one thing I'd like Christians to understand is non believers just want to be left alone. They don't want their rights infringed upon because of someone's religious beliefs. Freedom from religion.

[Marylou]

I won't be a part of derailing this thread, but I have strong opinions on the matter, including the idea that people didn't think fetuses were humans. I'm dying to know what this means, but not on this thread.

 

Yes, most people have strong opinions on it. There's nothing wrong with strong opinions. But as you know, strong doesn't have to mean unkind or insulting (I'm not referring to your posts).

 

Because of my background, I already know what many religious people believe about SLED and other points mentioned in the article. I thought with so many references to morality and women's equality here, along with the fact that I recently read that article and it was fresh on my mind, led me to ask the question.

 

I didn't know that only people with certain views were allowed to ask questions and discuss things here.

 

That's not how it is on the other social groups; now I know.

[Guest inoubliable]

The only person I talk to about my beliefs are DH. My brother has been an Athiest for 15 years or so and we have been talking a lot. He's sending me a bunch of books which should be here soon.

 

I could talk about my de-conversion very calmly to anyone willing to talk but I wouldn't be able to debate it. I know my experience but I'm not as well versed in my non belief as a believer is in their belief. I know Christianity, though, and am fairly confident there is not much I haven't heard or even said myself at one time. The one thing I'd like Christians to understand is non believers just want to be left alone. They don't want their rights infringed upon because of someone's religious beliefs. Freedom from religion.

 

Bolded needs to be a bumper sticker.

[Guest inoubliable]

Yes, most people have strong opinions on it. There's nothing wrong with strong opinions. But as you know, strong doesn't have to mean unkind or insulting (I'm not referring to your posts).

 

Because of my background, I already know what many religious people believe about SLED and other points mentioned in the article. I thought with so many references to morality and women's equality here, along with the fact that I recently read that article and it was fresh on my mind, led me to ask the question.

 

I didn't know that only people with certain views were allowed to ask questions and discuss things here.

 

That's not how it is on the other social groups; now I know.

 

This thread is not about morality or women's equality, even. It's about non-theism. You're welcome to start a thread on morality in general, women's equality in general, or abortion in general. Several of us have said that we would join you there.

 

Nice try. Move along, please.

[albeto]

I didn't know that only people with certain views were allowed to ask questions and discuss things here.

 

That's not how it is on the other social groups; now I know.

 

Why are you not starting another thread about this specific question?

 

(hint, please don't answer here. Start another thread if you are genuinely interested)

[LucyStoner]

 

Bolded needs to be a bumper sticker.

 

Wordy bumper sticker. I think there are ones that say "Freedom From Religion". Then there are also the ones that say "Freedom OF Religion, NOT Freedom FROM Religion. Sigh.

[LucyStoner]

 

I didn't know that only people with certain views were allowed to ask questions and discuss things here.

 

 

Plenty of religious people are pro-choice. Non-religious people can be pro-choice or pro-life. Abortion is not strictly a religious issue. Why this thread but to get an argument?

[Guest inoubliable]

Aye

[Guest inoubliable]

Freezing here! Snowed all day. But it was the sort that teases you. Nothing stuck so the kids were disappointed. Supposed to be in the 50s next week, though. Woot!

 

Any big plans for tomorrow?

[Mnemosyne]

My big plan is doing laundry and buying some food.

 

I know, I know. You can stop being jealous that I live such an exciting life. ;)

[Guest inoubliable]

Eh. I think I sold my old Palm Pilot so I need to meet a guy in town to hand that off. Other than that, the usual - infanticide, genocide, spreading misogyny, bullying. Wait. Just kidding. I won't be going to church.

[HomeschoolMamaOfTwo]

I am just catching up with stuff around here tomorrow. I seem to have gotten behind this week and there is a lot I need to do!

[HomeschoolMamaOfTwo]

I am just catching up with stuff around here tomorrow. I seem to have gotten behind this week and there is a lot I need to do!

[Marylou]

"Just move along"?

 

cyber-bullying

 

239 children's human rights

333 morality

340 sex/politics/equality

342 daring to ask questions

344 women and equality

351 ditto

355 politics

357 ditto

358 ditto

363 insulting Christians

364 morality/ethics

368 morality/Bible

369 politics/religion

 

and my favorite: 158

[HomeschoolMamaOfTwo]

Eh. I think I sold my old Palm Pilot so I need to meet a guy in town to hand that off. Other than that, the usual - infanticide, genocide, spreading misogyny, bullying. Wait. Just kidding. I won't be going to church.

You just made me spit out my drink.

[Izzy]

Eh. I think I sold my old Palm Pilot so I need to meet a guy in town to hand that off. Other than that, the usual - infanticide, genocide, spreading misogyny, bullying. Wait. Just kidding. I won't be going to church.

 

I'm off to bed but OMG this is funny!

[dbmamaz]

i bought food today but do laundry tomorrow. need to clean my desk and fill out a medical form and do some curriculum work. i was too busy pouting today to get much done. oh, and i need to figure out which meals i purchased stuff for get eaten which day. hm mm. exciting.

[Guest inoubliable]

"Just move along"?

 

cyber-bullying

 

239 children's human rights

333 morality

340 sex/politics/equality

342 daring to ask questions

344 women and equality

351 ditto

355 politics

357 ditto

358 ditto

363 insulting Christians

364 morality/ethics

368 morality/Bible

369 politics/religion

 

and my favorite: 158

 

Give over. Have a nice evening.

[Guest inoubliable]

An interesting study.

 

http://cities.barna.org/americas-most-and-least-bible-minded-cities-2

 

Anyone live in one of these cities, or close to them? Any on the list, that is.

 

I have to admit that I didn't realize how un-religious the New England area is. I guess I always had the mental image of old pilgrim-era churches and a population keeping those traditions going.

[Guest inoubliable]

i bought food today but do laundry tomorrow. need to clean my desk and fill out a medical form and do some curriculum work. i was too busy pouting today to get much done. oh, and i need to figure out which meals i purchased stuff for get eaten which day. hm mm. exciting.

 

Blech. You just made me realize that I need to work on the next term's planning and finish filling out some forms for the new dentist's office.

[LucyStoner]

My Sunday often does include church, go figure. Extremely liberal church with a gay minister, but church nonetheless. Will I explain the inconsistency? Nah. Can I? Maybe.

 

Not tomorrow. Tomorrow I need to write promised recommendations for some folks and then do my friend's taxes. Dinner with same friend, potato pancakes. Yum. Making homemade Phad Thai for lunch. I want to squeeze in a trip to the roller skating rink in there somewhere and we are baking a few things - GF Pumpkin Bread, sandwich bread for the kids and some oatmeal bars. Real anti-morality stuff going on up in here. It's scandalous how I boil rice sticks and fill out financial forms.

[Guest inoubliable]

Mmmmm. Pumpkin bread. Delicious, scandalous pumpkin bread....

[Lady Florida.]

There are a few things I want to bring up, but will be at Disney World all day tomorrow. I'll have some time to spend online Monday once I get ds started on his school work.

 

In the meantime, I just want to beg you all not to feed the troll. I don't want to see us get silenced. She doesn't want a conversation.

[4kidlets4me]

An interesting study.

 

http://cities.barna....minded-cities-2

 

Anyone live in one of these cities, or close to them? Any on the list, that is.

 

I have to admit that I didn't realize how un-religious the New England area is. I guess I always had the mental image of old pilgrim-era churches and a population keeping those traditions going.

 

 

My current city isn't on there which is no surprise since we're not even much of a city. We're moving to the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area and it's number 70 on the list :hurray:

New England is surprising though. Maybe they didn't burn enough of the witches and now they've taken over :tongue_smilie:

[Lady Florida.]

This makes me so sad and angry at the same time. There's just no excuse for a human to treat a fellow human that way. They wonder why some athiests are angry?

 

Yes. What really got me is that they "allow" you to follow their facebook page. Gee, how very Christian of them. :rolleyes:

[cajunrose]

Ok, I haven't followed this much but I will assume this is a safe place to ask. My family and I are atheist...we are pretty much the 'don't talk about religion..not outwardly atheist..just live our lives just like everybody else...but with a complete lack of religion). I just moved to a bible belt state. Where I lived before (South Louisiana), a LOT of my friends were extremely religious...preacher's wives, etc. They all knew where I stood. We were great friends. We talked religion when it came up. I asked questions when I felt the need. It worked great.

 

Now, I'm in a different area of the country. People REALLY love their god here...they are sooooo much more outspoken about it and in your face. It's a little different to get used to. Hard to get used to the bibles on the magazine stands in the doctors office, etc. I'm ok with it though.

 

SO....with meeting new friends. It makes it so hard. We met some new friends yesterday. I think we could be great friends. Our girls are the same age with similar interests...but they are SO religious. In the period of one conversation, we were invited to join the american heritage girls, join bible trivia, and heard all about how they quit girl scouts b/c god was being taken out of it.

 

In the past, what has worked to just tell people we are not religious and over the course of our relationship, they figure out *what* we are and are ok with it b/c they have gotten to know me as a person and know I'm not growing horns and won't corrupt their children. Sometimes, when I feel safe, I come out and tell them if I need to (explaining why we need a secular homeschool group, etc). I have never been turned away from at that point...they know me and it's fine.

 

Do I take that same approach here? Do I just continue not to talk about it and tell people we are just not religious and then hope they let it go? Will that work in the bible belt? How would you handle it??

 

Not sure I like this new territory I'm in.

[Guest inoubliable]

Lynchburg, VA didn't surprise me. I was surprised that Richmond didn't make the list, though.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

 

Do I take that same approach here? Do I just continue not to talk about it and tell people we are just not religious and then hope they let it go? Will that work in the bible belt? How would you handle it??

 

Not sure I like this new territory I'm in.

 

What I've found to work for me when asked what church we go to or when I'm faced with invitations to religious situations is to tell them that I'm a secular humanist. I've found that most people have no idea what that is, but that they assume it's a church and a Christian sect, at that. As long as they think I'm going to *some* church, they don't ask anymore. It may seem a little deceptive, but when you're faced with the in-your-face type, this may be the only way to shut it down without it getting all heavy and uncool. KWIM?

[LucyStoner]

An interesting study.

 

http://cities.barna....minded-cities-2

 

Anyone live in one of these cities, or close to them? Any on the list, that is.

 

I have to admit that I didn't realize how un-religious the New England area is. I guess I always had the mental image of old pilgrim-era churches and a population keeping those traditions going.

 

I have found that "Bible minded" tends towards being anti-Catholic, anti-Orthodox and dismissive of liberal forms of Christianity. It seems code for conservative Evangelical believers. New England has a lot of churches and a rich religious history but I suppose is now pretty liberal.

 

I am not sure how they complied the list. My city is towards the bottom but not at the bottom. By regular church attendance I live in one of the "least churched" cities in the country. I know people who go to church, having been raised in a religious family and because they are somewhat more common at our homeschooling center. Most are pretty progressive. I almost never run across fundamentalist evangelicals in town unless they are a public figure (like Ken Hutchinson debating a pro-gay marriage person). I know they are here but it's not a city where people usually ask you what church you go to or offer to share the good news unless they are the sort who belong to fringe groups that make it a habit to knock on your door. It's been years since anyone I didn't know has accosted me about faith in public. I was once, rather memorably, chased by two hippies for Jesus types at the Seattle Center while on a date but we are talking like 15 years ago. I identified as Catholic at the time and he was Jewish and they really were up in arms over it. Chase is not an exaggeration. We literally fled. But that is a BIG anomaly.

 

I don't think it is a big surprise that one of the first states where VOTERS approved same sex marriage (Yay us!) is one where the largest (by a wide number) population center is one of the least churched cities. Also, many our churches refused to participate in actions against equal marriage or actively worked for it. The Catholic Cathedral here flatly refused to collect signatures against equal marriage at Sunday services despite urging from the Archdiocese.

 

What I do find troubling is the rise of an ultra conservative mega church aimed at youth and young married couples. Right here in liberaltown USA with rock music and slick production and a concert/club feeling environment. I've had friends of friends fall in with it and they often go from being progressively minded to supporting a narrow and patriarcal interpretation of the Bible. Many former church members cite abuses and intrusions from staff. Like commanding certain people not to date or telling others to date each other etc. Very strange. They are very focused on making marriages. In fact I was invited once so I could meet a spouse. When I drew attention to my wedding band, we all had a little laugh. This church is a large and still growing deal here, but on the whole reflects a very small minority view here. I don't care what they believe, but do find any anti-women, anti-gay groups, church or not, very discouraging.

[Lady Florida.]

Any big plans for tomorrow?

 

 

Why yes, actually. Taking the teen boy to Disney to meet up with a Friend Who Is A Girl. Said friend lives on the other side of Florida, and is also an atheist. I'll be hanging out with the mom (our kids met through us), while the teens enjoy seeing each other in person. They usually Skype, so any chance to get together in person is a treat for them.

[albeto]

infanticide, genocide, spreading misogyny, bullying. Wait. Just kidding. I won't be going to church.

 

omg, I think I'm in love.

 

:wub:

[Guest inoubliable]

Why yes, actually. Taking the teen boy to Disney to meet up with a Friend Who Is A Girl. Said friend lives on the other side of Florida, and is also an atheist. I'll be hanging out with the mom (our kids met through us), while the teens enjoy seeing each other in person. They usually Skype, so any chance to get together in person is a treat for them.

 

 

Ooooh. Friend Who Is A Girl. Oldest DS turned 12 last fall. I'm wondering how much time I have left before we get one of those around. Fun for your DS, though! :)

[deannajo]

Do I take that same approach here? Do I just continue not to talk about it and tell people we are just not religious and then hope they let it go? Will that work in the bible belt? How would you handle it??

 

Not sure I like this new territory I'm in.

 

This is hard. From my time in the Bible Belt, I learned that if I tell people I'm not religious, or don't have a church home (sigh), then they still assumed Christianity. And the talk continues, and the assumptions are left unchallenged and it starts feeling like I'm actually lying about who I am...and then I always worry that the kids will spill the beans, even though I'm not actively hiding anything. Years and years ago, the don't talk about about thing was my philosophy. Until we got dumped by a Christian family - I think they found a dictionary and looked up the word "secular" and put two and two together - they joined our secular homeschool group, befriended many of us, and then they were appalled at the lack of religion, sigh - but anyway, they lived near us, had kids the same age, and we got along for the most part and frequently got together to let the kids play, but when they realized what kind of homeschool group they had joined, they actually dumped my family as friends. Told us that we weren't they type of friends they wanted for their kids. My own kids never understood why we couldn't play with them again. It was sad. Then we moved to a more Bible Belt area, and I found it just easier to tell people that we were not Christian. And leave it at that, and then as relationships evolved, sharing exactly what we were. But then as the kids got older, they started forming relationships through classes, etc., that didn't involve me that much, and I always worried that they would feel that they had to hide parts of themselves or our family just because people assumed we were Christian - after all, we lived in KS and we homeschooled :-( There was no way to really get around it though...my middle daughter had a really close friend who found out that not only are we not church-goers, but we are actually nonbelievers. This friend didn't stop being friends with my daughter, but all of the sudden each conversation they had centered around how great it will be once my daughter was a believer too, and all the benefits she will experience when that happens (there wasn't an "if" in there), there was a lot of praying and Jesus talk - and it made my daughter so sad because she really valued this relationship, but it all changed and became about her friend trying to change her instead of hanging out and having fun...I don't know how we could have avoided that - they knew we didn't go to church, but just assumed the rest :-(

 

I did find that being very clear at the beginning of relationships enabled us to find really great friends, of all faiths. But it wasn't easy and it took time. My daughter's situation above was one where we weren't friends with the family, she developed this relationship on her own, and I don't think its fair to ask my children to introduce themselves as atheists every time a friendship starts developing.

[LucyStoner]

On the how religious of a city thing, I guess I should remember that it is different city to suburb. The south end of our county seems a bit more conservative religiously. My brother, a gay SAHD and school PTA member, has a different experience living there than I do as a hetero married chick have here in the city. He recently told me that a fellow school volunteer has taken an interest in evangelizing to them and is also really anti-gay and makes bizarre remarks about them being a two dad family. Which makes no sense because if they were to convert and share her views on gays, their stable family with 2 young children would be ripped apart. The antithesis of family values IMO. She also WAY overshared to my brother and a third volunteer on how her and her husband have sex because that's what it says in the bible (?!). That I don't associate with being Christian or religious so much as being a wackadoodle in need of a filter. My brother is extremely reserved and quiet with people he doesn't consider close. He was totally flummoxed. I told him that if she does anything like that again, he should make up a sexual overshare about his big gay married sex life and hurl it back at her. He's *this close* to quitting the PTA because of how much of an outsider he is as a SAHD paired with the religiously based anti-gay stuff.

 

On a happier it's-still-good-to-live-here note, my brother and his "domestic partner" aka husband were part of a group of 50 same sex couples married on December 9th, at a very progressive church, the first day it was legal for them to do so here, more than 6 years after their commitment ceremony. I still want to rip down "Don't Redefine Marriage" signs you can see occasionally here from the campaign but I resist. :)

[Audrey]

 

What I've found to work for me when asked what church we go to or when I'm faced with invitations to religious situations is to tell them that I'm a secular humanist. I've found that most people have no idea what that is, but that they assume it's a church and a Christian sect, at that. As long as they think I'm going to *some* church, they don't ask anymore. It may seem a little deceptive, but when you're faced with the in-your-face type, this may be the only way to shut it down without it getting all heavy and uncool. KWIM?

 

 

 

I'm near a French town. French mostly = Catholic. When I first moved here, I told people I was a non-deist. (I didn't add the Witch part). I think the second or third person to whom I said that asked me "what denomination is that?"

 

me --> :blink:

[albeto]

He recently told me that a fellow school volunteer has taken an interest in evangelizing to them and is also really anti-gay and makes bizarre remarks about them being a two dad family. Which makes no sense because if they were to convert and share her views on gays, their stable family with 2 young children would be ripped apart. The antithesis of family values IMO.

 

Nah, family values only counts when trying to appease an angry god, dontchaknow.

 

He's *this close* to quitting the PTA because of how much of an outsider he is as a SAHD paired with the religiously based anti-gay stuff.

 

But she's sharing the love o'christ, so that's okay.

 

On a happier it's-still-good-to-live-here note, my brother and his "domestic partner" aka husband were part of a group of 50 same sex couples married on December 9th, at a very progressive church, the first day it was legal for them to do so here, more than 6 years after their commitment ceremony.

 

Cool!

 

I still want to rip down "Don't Redefine Marriage" signs you can see occasionally here from the campaign but I resist. :)

 

 

You know what they say, if you can't beat them, join them. You could put these posters up in addition. You know, to really share the gospel message.

 

(Click HERE for a bigger image)

[MistyMountain]

SO....with meeting new friends. It makes it so hard. We met some new friends yesterday. I think we could be great friends. Our girls are the same age with similar interests...but they are SO religious. In the period of one conversation, we were invited to join the american heritage girls, join bible trivia, and heard all about how they quit girl scouts b/c god was being taken out of it.

 

I have had this happen before. I get to know people through a parenting activity and really get to like them but then as the activity is ending I get invited to their church or bible study. I don't have a problem with that at all and am glad they think of me but then that is the end of it because I am obviously not going to go. I get scared to mention that I am a atheist or secular humanist whatever you want to call it because I am afraid they will judge based on that. I don't even live in a bible belt state or city and this happens. I can only imagine how bad it is elsewhere.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Thoughts? Have you ever had a fruitful, meaningful, respectful conversation with a believer about why you don't believe?

 

 

Yes, I have. But the atmosphere here is so different from the one where Husband grew up in Texas, or the ones I hear of on this board. My best friend is Church of England. We had long talks when we were younger and, more recently, we have had brief 'updates' as she worked her way through her children's teenage years.

 

Hobbes has a Christian friend, and they have the kind of talks that I remember having with my friend.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

 

Besides robbing my neighbor, sacrificing a goat, having an abortion, and swearing like a sailor I don't have any hot plans tomorrow. You?

 

 

I woke myself up out of a really pleasant dream this morning because my dream self suddenly started swearing and raging. My dream self was so shocked at my own behaviour that I woke up.

 

I'm just not cut out for this goat-sacrificing life.

 

Laura

[[email protected]]

Because the social groups are not yet running, we are trying to give the social group threads some extra leeway. There is some name-calling and off-topic discussion in this thread but I will not remove it. Instead, please bring an end to the conflict and move along. Thank you.

 

Moderator

[LaxMom]

 

Besides robbing my neighbor, sacrificing a goat, having an abortion, and swearing like a sailor I don't have any hot plans tomorrow. You?

 

I think swearing like a sailor is just assumed here. We have a staff workout this morning (torture, but I didn't plan it so I'll be on the receiving side), and then I'll be sewing for guinea pigs. Cage liner and snuggle sacks. We don't dress them. That would be wrong and, should I ever put up cute pics of fashionable piggies, I fully expect you all to organize an intervention, okay?

[Laura Corin]

 

Eh..you get used to it.

 

 

Almost 50 years - you'd think I would have got used to it by now. Under a bit of stress at the moment though (almost two years of Husband's unemployment) so I suspect the swearing in my dreams is something to do with that.

 

Laura

[Guest inoubliable]

Because the social groups are not yet running, we are trying to give the social group threads some extra leeway. There is some name-calling and off-topic discussion in this thread but I will not remove it. Instead, please bring an end to the conflict and move along. Thank you.

 

Moderator

 

Thank you!

[Guest inoubliable]

I'll be sewing for guinea pigs. Cage liner and snuggle sacks. We don't dress them. That would be wrong and, should I ever put up cute pics of fashionable piggies, I fully expect you all to organize an intervention, okay?

 

Whoa, whoa. Snuggle sacks?? This sounds too cute to not know about! Link? Pics?

[Izzy]

An interesting study.

 

http://cities.barna.org/americas-most-and-least-bible-minded-cities-2

 

Anyone live in one of these cities, or close to them? Any on the list, that is.

 

I have to admit that I didn't realize how un-religious the New England area is. I guess I always had the mental image of old pilgrim-era churches and a population keeping those traditions going.

 

#48 here. Austin is a pretty liberal city so you're not going to have problems if you aren't religious. BUT the problem is the homeschool world. We fit in fine in regular life but the homeschool world is very religious. We also live in a suburb outside of Austin where the homeschool world is extremeley religious. There are more secular options if you're in the city.

[Izzy]

 

 

 

My current city isn't on there which is no surprise since we're not even much of a city. We're moving to the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area and it's number 70 on the list :hurray:

New England is surprising though. Maybe they didn't burn enough of the witches and now they've taken over :tongue_smilie:

 

:hurray: I love Florida!

[dbmamaz]

Blech. You just made me realize that I need to work on the next term's planning and finish filling out some forms for the new dentist's office.

LOL i'm talking next WEEK! he's not self-directed at all, so even the intellego unit study, i have to tell him how much to do every day, and then the chemistry which i bought from singaporemath.com - and they discontinued - is for school use. i have to break it in to assignments between the text and the workbook and find videos to explain or demonstrate things. even history i'm only about 2 weeks ahead in. guh.

[Izzy]

 

 

Almost 50 years - you'd think I would have got used to it by now. Under a bit of stress at the moment though (almost two years of Husband's unemployment) so I suspect the swearing in my dreams is something to do with that.

 

Laura

 

:grouphug: DH's layoff was probably the hardest thing we've gone through in our marriage. Hoping your DH finds a new job soon. :)

[Spryte]

KK, that's an interesting study. Might come in useful for planning future moves. Thank you.

 

Reading on a phone, so not posting much, but enjoying catching up on the thread. Thanks, too, for contacting a mod re: trolls.

[Jennifer3141]

It would have been nicer if the mod removed the troll posts but whatever...

 

DH interviewed for a job in Chattanooga. I ended up at lunch with the wives and kids. I was very quiet as DH was telling me that technically the place was a great fit, etc. etc. and then he just BURST out laughing - "But I can't work here!!! Every single one of them witnessed to me today!!!" I was sooooooo nervous he would love it because I was literally nauseaous around those women. That was five years ago and that was our only foray into the south. And we're still nervous about roadtripping through there. It was CREEPY. Like they all had the same flavor Koolaid and they made their Cheebiz sound like the cheesiest person in the world. "Praise Cheebiz this sweet tea is goooood!" I had the hardest time not just laughing. That practice is still looking for good people and it cracks me up every time I see their ad. That and the blue eye shadow. :glare:

 

Stephanie, my only advice is to keep trying. And try stuff you might not have wanted to do before. GS isn't religious enough there? Sounds PERFECT! Go try it out. You may have to look at unschooling groups. Not every unschooler is the same. Also, search EVERYWHERE for secular groups. Look at meetup, FB, yahoo, just everywhere. You never know where one is quietly lurking. And just keep your eyes peeled. At all times. And please tell me you are now in northern Michigan. :laugh: