Veritaserum Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm curious to know which Christian denominations, if any, meet these criteria: *No to wifely submission or husbands being the head/presiding *No to all male clergy/leadership (and no to pseudo-female leadership where women run aspects of the women's and/or children's programs but do not serve as leaders of the main church body) *No to prescribed gender roles or expectations (Men should do/are like ____. Women should do/are like ____.) *No to putting one sex on a pedestal as something to be admired *No to a focus on sin and hell *Yes to mixed sex clergy/leadership *Yes to egalitarian beliefs and practices (including egalitarian treatment of homosexuals) *Yes to a focus on Jesus Christ's ministry and loving others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 United Church of Christ. Not to be confused with Church of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zillymom Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 ELCA Lutheran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 ELCA Lutheran, Methodist, UCC, and at least some Presbyterian are what come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 United Church of Christ. Not to be confused with Church of Christ. :confused1: Not in my experience. Eta: to respond to other Posts, I was raised ELCA Lutheran, and they don't really fit either. Clergy yes, everything else, no. Methodist does. Some Presbytarian churches do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 UCoCs probably vary widely by individual church. In our community, the UCoC has a female clergy, is welcoming to the GLBT community, and works hard for social, political and economic justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Eta: to respond to other Posts, I was raised ELCA Lutheran, and they don't really fit either. Clergy yes, everything else, no. Methodist does. Some Presbytarian churches do. Perhaps it depends on the congregation then, because the ELCA church we attend sounds much like what the OP is seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 :confused1: Not in my experience. Eta: to respond to other Posts, I was raised ELCA Lutheran, and they don't really fit either. Clergy yes, everything else, no. Methodist does. Some Presbytarian churches do. What did you experience with ELCA Lutheran and UCoC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura :iagree: My parents' Episcopal parish would fit the OP. But my Anglican parish would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyndiLJ Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 In our neck of the woods, UCC totally fits. Out of 6 congregations I am familiar with, four are female led. All are accepting of homosexuality although not all would be called officially "open and affirming". However, UCC is about it around here that meets your criteria. Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura The Episcopal church already has women bishops. The Episcopal Church is in the United States, where it is in communion with the Anglican Church in other countries. Some of those Anglican Churches do not ordain women priests. Some do, but do not ordain women bishops. The Anglican Church is deciding about women bishops in England today. To answer OP's question, I'd say 'Pissies would fit, but it will depend on your priest in each congregation just how tailored a fit it is. We, historically, still believe in sin, but we tend to emphasize grace. Of course, grace isn't needed without sin. ;) But I know what you probably mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I grew up attending a UCC and my dh attended a United Methodist church. It clearly could vary from congregation to congregation, but both of our childhood churches would've met your criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Other than UCC, I don't think you can do it by congregation. I am a member of a conservative PC USA church although in Northern VA, I was a member of a PCA church since the nearby PCUSA churches were too liberal for me. Same goes for all the big denominations- there are liberal congregations and more conservative congregations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not mentioned so far: PC(USA) and United Methodist both fit with this. However, you may find congregations in each denomination that might be more conservative (I think that part would apply to Episcopal and Lutheran as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 What did you experience with ELCA Lutheran and UCoC? The ELCA church I grew up in would not have been welcoming to the GLBT community, and neither would the the UCC my aunt and uncle (my godparents) attended. And while they may not have been patriarchal on the surface, the undercurrents were still there. But maybe it's the ind. churches, and the area we lived in? The whole idea of Grace wasn't something I ever heard growing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I think Methodist and Presbyterian (USA) would be the closest fit. UU would, of course, but many traditional Christians would not feel comfortable about the "Christian" part. Frankly, though, I have come to believe that patriarchy is an embedded part of ALL Christian denominations. There are foundational issues of patriarchy in our culture. Christian scripture and culture superimposed on structural and cultural patriarchy exacerbates the problem. The patriarchial culture in which Christianity developed, and the inclusion and reverence of Paul entrenched the hierarchy. Truly equal, non fear based, non hate based treatment of sexual minorities is difficult to find in any group in Western/American culture. You'll find congregant issues with sexual minorities in every congregation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandsam Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The ELCA church we attend has an equal number of men and women pastors, although the lead pastor is a man. The music director is gay. I do think you need to look congregation by congregation. Our church prides itself on being progressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not mentioned so far: PC(USA) and United Methodist both fit with this. However, you may find congregations in each denomination that might be more conservative (I think that part would apply to Episcopal and Lutheran as well). Individual congregations will definitely have their own flavor - and some will be more liberal and some more conservative. Episcopal, ELCA do fit. My parents are ministers with ELCA, so I've seen and heard some of the growing pains during the couple decades my mom has been a minister. Yes, patriarchy is alive and well in some congregations, but women definitely aren't on a pedestal. LGBTQ issues are more problematic, but growing pains are going on there as well. Check denominations websites to see what fits you better, then attend a couple churches in your area and see what feels best. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not mentioned so far: PC(USA) and United Methodist both fit with this. However, you may find congregations in each denomination that might be more conservative (I think that part would apply to Episcopal and Lutheran as well). The United Methodist church we attended in Georgia would fit the bill but none of the ones around here, in my part of TN, would meet all of the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I think Methodist and Presbyterian (USA) would be the closest fit. UU would, of course, but many traditional Christians would not feel comfortable about the "Christian" part. Frankly, though, I have come to believe that patriarchy is an embedded part of ALL Christian denominations. There are foundational issues of patriarchy in our culture. Christian scripture and culture superimposed on structural and cultural patriarchy exacerbates the problem. The patriarchial culture in which Christianity developed, and the inclusion and reverence of Paul entrenched the hierarchy. Truly equal, non fear based, non hate based treatment of sexual minorities is difficult to find in any group in Western/American culture. You'll find congregant issues with sexual minorities in every congregation. I do agree with this. I think the patriarchy is a part of our culture, even outside of then church, ANY church. My denomination might fit, depending on your level of requirement. I've been in my denomination my whole life & I have never heard the word "submission" in the context of patriarchy. A few of my friends at other churches do seem to follow this to varying degrees, although the only trend I've noticed is that it is strongest with the Catholics, even those who aren't practicing. I know, that isn't expected. I think it goes to show how varying it is across all denominations/churches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The ELCA church I grew up in would not have been welcoming to the GLBT community, and neither would the the UCC my aunt and uncle (my godparents) attended. And while they may not have been patriarchal on the surface, the undercurrents were still there. But maybe it's the ind. churches, and the area we lived in? The whole idea of Grace wasn't something I ever heard growing up. The UCC is congregational, so each individual congregation runs itself, and there's no creed that anyone's required to follow, so in a more conservative area, I could see them being more conservative. The UCC church in the town I grew up in brought in a Baptist minister, and they became very conservative, so much that they eventually split from the UCC denomination, sold the church building and built a new, big, modern church down the road. The old white New England church with the steeple in my old hometown now houses a Korean Presbyterian church. However, as a denomination UCC is very liberal. I'd say a majority of the ministers are women, and they encourage congregations to be "Open and Affirming" or welcoming to the LBGT community. Although, as a denomination with a congregational model, each congregation individually votes whether to be Open and Affirming - ones that are are pretty much guaranteed to be very liberal overall, and certainly not hung up on gender roles and patriarchy. The UCC website has a church finder, and you can also search specifically for churches that have chosen to be O&A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura :iagree: I was going to mention Episcopalian if someone else had not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for the ideas. As you may have guessed, I'm thinking of trying other churches to see if I like them better than my current church. Unfortunately, there are very few options where I live and congregations tend to be quite small since most people are part of my current religion. There is a UU church fairly close to me that I am also interested in. I like the idea of exploring a unique spiritual path. There is a tiny Episcopalian church nearby as well. The diocese is headed by a liberal bishop. The diocese website has nice, inclusive language all over it. It is refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for the ideas. As you may have guessed, I'm thinking of trying other churches to see if I like them better than my current church. Unfortunately, there are very few options where I live and congregations tend to be quite small since most people are part of my current religion. There is a UU church fairly close to me that I am also interested in. I like the idea of exploring a unique spiritual path. There is a tiny Episcopalian church nearby as well. The diocese is headed by a liberal bishop. The diocese website has nice, inclusive language all over it. It is refreshing. I think the UU chruch would meet many if not all of your criteria. Good luck in your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If a UU is on the table, I would definitely try that out. We found a UU church after we were married and it's been a great fit for us. They vary a bunch. Locally to us, the UCC, Methodist, and some lutheran (elca) churches would also fit the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura I was going to recommend Episcopalian as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The UCC is congregational, so each individual congregation runs itself, and there's no creed that anyone's required to follow, so in a more conservative area, I could see them being more conservative. The UCC church in the town I grew up in brought in a Baptist minister, and they became very conservative, so much that they eventually split from the UCC denomination, sold the church building and built a new, big, modern church down the road. The old white New England church with the steeple in my old hometown now houses a Korean Presbyterian church. However, as a denomination UCC is very liberal. I'd say a majority of the ministers are women, and they encourage congregations to be "Open and Affirming" or welcoming to the LBGT community. Although, as a denomination with a congregational model, each congregation individually votes whether to be Open and Affirming - ones that are are pretty much guaranteed to be very liberal overall, and certainly not hung up on gender roles and patriarchy. The UCC website has a church finder, and you can also search specifically for churches that have chosen to be O&A. That makes sense. I do live in a pretty conservative area and wondered if that and the older generation had something to do with it. Quite a bit of my aunt and uncle's church is elderly at this point. The church I grew up in is no longer ELCA, and a lot of the younger people left there before or during the switch. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Depending on what's decided today (whether there should be women bishops - being discussed in synod at present) the Episcopalian church meets your criteria. It already has women priests. I know that there are 'Anglican' churches in the US that are more conservative, so you'd have to look around. Laura The Episcopal Church in the US is headed by a female bishop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The Episcopal church already has women bishops. The Episcopal Church is in the United States, where it is in communion with the Anglican Church in other countries. Some of those Anglican Churches do not ordain women priests. Some do, but do not ordain women bishops. The Anglican Church is deciding about women bishops in England today. You are right - sorry for causing confusion. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for the ideas. As you may have guessed, I'm thinking of trying other churches to see if I like them better than my current church. Unfortunately, there are very few options where I live and congregations tend to be quite small since most people are part of my current religion. There is a UU church fairly close to me that I am also interested in. I like the idea of exploring a unique spiritual path. There is a tiny Episcopalian church nearby as well. The diocese is headed by a liberal bishop. The diocese website has nice, inclusive language all over it. It is refreshing. Yeah, you're not in a great place for trying something new. If I were you, I'd definitely try the UU church. Do you happen to know anyone who attends either of those churches? I hope you can find something that works better for you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm curious to know which Christian denominations, if any, meet these criteria: *No to wifely submission or husbands being the head/presiding *No to all male clergy/leadership (and no to pseudo-female leadership where women run aspects of the women's and/or children's programs but do not serve as leaders of the main church body) *No to prescribed gender roles or expectations (Men should do/are like ____. Women should do/are like ____.) *No to putting one sex on a pedestal as something to be admired *No to a focus on sin and hell *Yes to mixed sex clergy/leadership *Yes to egalitarian beliefs and practices (including egalitarian treatment of homosexuals) *Yes to a focus on Jesus Christ's ministry and loving others Two other denominations that meet the above criteria are the Quakers (Friends) and the Moravians. Quakers have no hierarchy at all, and affirm the absolute equality and ministry of all its members. Moravians do have a liturgy, but they are egalitarian and practice it at every level of their leadership. Both of these denominations are also pacifistic, and do not endorse or support violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for the ideas. As you may have guessed, I'm thinking of trying other churches to see if I like them better than my current church. Unfortunately, there are very few options where I live and congregations tend to be quite small since most people are part of my current religion. There is a UU church fairly close to me that I am also interested in. I like the idea of exploring a unique spiritual path. There is a tiny Episcopalian church nearby as well. The diocese is headed by a liberal bishop. The diocese website has nice, inclusive language all over it. It is refreshing. I think either one may be a good option for you. I'm not too familiar with LDS temple or ward liturgy rites, but if you are attracted to liturgical worship, the Episcopal Church probably more likely to offer that. A word of advice: even with a liberal bishop, and even though Episcopal parishes generally practice an "open table" approach to receiving Holy Communion, the basic requirement most of them go by is baptism of the recipient. Episcopal Churches will generally accept the baptism rites of most other denominations, but I don't know how they regard LDS baptism. Most likely if you were to come, though, and desired to receive, you could simply do so and no one would even ask. UCC would not have this requirement in most cases. Nor would the Quakers, should there be any of their churches around that area. Good luck, Laura! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I agree with Episcopalian or UU. There are many UUs with Christian meetup groups. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 I tend be fulfilled by intellectual discussion followed by private reflection, so I do wonder if UU might be a better fit--especially since there are aspects of mainstream Christianity that don't make sense to me. Good music is also uplifting to me. Handel's Messiah, for example, is extremely spiritually nurturing. Singing or playing spiritual music is more of a communion with the divine than actual prayer for me. I really enjoyed the Hare Krishna chanting when I went on a field trip to the Hindu temple a couple of years ago. I wanted to join in and harmonize along with them. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I tend be fulfilled by intellectual discussion followed by private reflection, so I do wonder if UU might be a better fit--especially since there are aspects of mainstream Christianity that don't make sense to me. Good music is also uplifting to me. Handel's Messiah, for example, is extremely spiritually nurturing. Singing or playing spiritual music is more of a communion with the divine than actual prayer for me. I really enjoyed the Hare Krishna chanting when I went on a field trip to the Hindu temple a couple of years ago. I wanted to join in and harmonize along with them. :) I'm right there with you. Want to start our own group? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The First United Methodist Church I grew up in would fit all of those requirements. I don't know if other UMC's are the same way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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