Dealing with difficult college professors

[PrincessMommy]

This post is part vent and part asking for advice. But, please don't beat me up - even after 4 college kids I still find I'm walking in the dark sometimes.....

 

My daughter transferred to a large Out-of-state college this past fall. This is her first experience with classes of 300 or more and she's pretty discouraged. The biggest issue is that the professors are very unwilling to offer any guidance or help. She has gone to at least two of her professors to ask for help or ideas because she's studying hard but not doing well. Both prof. said "That's your problem, not mine." :confused: Seriously, they couldn't even take a moment to direct her to a good tutor or services? I understand that with 300 students per class she's not going to get one-on-one attention, but their lack of concern is disappointing. She says that all her tenured professors have this attitude. They really don't care if there are problems.

 

The latest problem is a professor who gives them 10 min. to take a test. Now my dd needs to have more time for tests- we're working on that issue - but she says that when the prof. says "You have 2 more mins left" just about everyone in the room complains. This has got to be more than just my daughter's learning problems. I encouraged her to get a group together to go talk with the professor. I don't know that it will do much good, but at least she will be proactive about her education.

 

So, should I just continue to offer ideas and support from afar when dd calls me? Or, should I step in and call the college? I am paying the bills after all.

[blessed3x]

:bigear:

 

Bumping for you, and I will be following for ideas.

 

We have 2 in college as well. My younger one has had similar issues with 1 of her professors.

[bettyandbob]

This is a big issue at large universities. The professors are there more for research, not teaching.

 

Does the school have a student services center to can talk to about getting help in classes.

 

Besides help in for specific topics in classes, could your dd have a study skills issue that may be helped with assistance from the student services dept.

 

Does your dd have money to put toward tutoring? Often grad students offer tutoring for a fee for classes in their dept. Services are probably posted on an electronic bulletin board.

 

Is your dd in any study groups. Your dd needs to be getting to know her classmates and finding out how they are handling studying and properly preparing for class without the assistance of the professor. You can bet there's a few who have connections to upperclassmen who took the class before and are getting the inside scoop on what to do.

[PrincessMommy]

This is a big issue at large universities. The professors are there more for research, not teaching.

 

Does the school have a student services center to can talk to about getting help in classes.

 

Besides help in for specific topics in classes, could your dd have a study skills issue that may be helped with assistance from the student services dept.

 

Does your dd have money to put toward tutoring? Often grad students offer tutoring for a fee for classes in their dept. Services are probably posted on an electronic bulletin board.

 

Is your dd in any study groups. Your dd needs to be getting to know her classmates and finding out how they are handling studying and properly preparing for class without the assistance of the professor. You can bet there's a few who have connections to upperclassmen who took the class before and are getting the inside scoop on what to do.

 

yes, my daughter will be getting special services (longer test time, quiet room - things like that ) when the paper work is completely reviewed. She does take advantage of student services and other helps. She has had no luck with tutors... none of them returned her email and now the semester is nearly over. She's been using YouTube to help her figure stuff out.

 

My issue is the professors' lack of care for their craft - not the lack of services available from the school itself. Your comment about them being there solely for research helps put it into perspective. However, I would hope that the school, as a whole, would care about this. Wouldn't they be concerned if their drop-out rate was high because the teachers aren't really doing their jobs?

[jar7709]

In my experience those large classes usually have a couple of grad students who act as T.A.s and do the professor's grading and assist with student questions. Because there are so many students per class, these type of responsibilities are supposed to shift to the TAs, who usually hold regular hours and study hall times. Is that not the case in this situation?

[PrincessMommy]

In my experience those large classes usually have a couple of grad students who act as T.A.s and do the professor's grading and assist with student questions. Because there are so many students per class, these type of responsibilities are supposed to shift to the TAs, who usually hold regular hours and study hall times. Is that not the case in this situation?

 

I have never heard my dd mention a TA for any of her classes, but I will ask her about it. Surely, one of the Prof. would have fobbed her off on them when she went to him/her?

[Joshin]

Before we beat up the professors too much, let's put some things in perspective. A 300-person class is a lecture hall class. Professors often teach a couple of these, as well as some higher-level smaller classes that actually take up even more of their time. Generally, in a lecture hall class, you have to make appointments to talk to the professor unless they hold open office hours. Generally, it's the professor's TA's or secretary that handle things like tutoring referrals, or student services provides that info.

 

Depending on the class and the college, there is sometimes something else at play. For example, my low level astronomy classes were huge. A lot of students picked astronomy for a science requirement thinking it would be easy. For the university, the point of the classes were to separate the wheat from chaff before they got to the upper level physics program. Those taking it for an easy science soon learned otherwise and usually dropped it, while those that were on a science track struggled but came away from it ready to tackle the even more grueling future classes needed for their major.

 

During my college days I quickly learned that TA's were your best friend in those large classes. That, and take as few of them as possible!

[jar7709]

I have never heard my dd mention a TA for any of her classes, but I will ask her about it. Surely, one of the Prof. would have fobbed her off on them when she went to him/her?

 

 

You'd think so, but I've met profs who give all that kind of details in the first 5 minutes of class on the first day, and assume the student should then know. They get really tired of "baby-sitting" recent high school graduates, especially in those giant "weeder" classes, and kind of assume survival of the fittest. It sounds harsh, and I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it happens. I'd encourage your DD to be proactive and ask around the other students, one of them may knows more.

 

As one of the grad student TAs back in the day, we WANT the students to show up to us. We hold office hours and everything and often nobody shows up.

[FairProspects]

My daughter transferred to a large Out-of-state college this past fall. This is her first experience with classes of 300 or more and she's pretty discouraged. The biggest issue is that the professors are very unwilling to offer any guidance or help. She has gone to at least two of her professors to ask for help or ideas because she's studying hard but not doing well. Both prof. said "That's your problem, not mine." :confused: Seriously, they couldn't even take a moment to direct her to a good tutor or services? I understand that with 300 students per class she's not going to get one-on-one attention, but their lack of concern is disappointing. She says that all her tenured professors have this attitude. They really don't care if there are problems.

 

Did she do this in the moments before or after class or at office hours? Profs have a million things to juggle in the 5-10 min passing between classes including hiking themselves across campus, so they may very well have brushed her off during those times. Office hours are usually another story, and I only had 1 professor refuse to help me when I specifically sought him out during office hours.

 

Also, she needs to be specific about what she is struggling with. Profs will not know how to help if she just says she is studying not doing well b/c they have no idea how she is studying. Does she not understand specific concepts? Is she missing the key ideas from her notes? Does she need editing help on a paper?

 

In my experience those large classes usually have a couple of grad students who act as T.A.s and do the professor's grading and assist with student questions. Because there are so many students per class, these type of responsibilities are supposed to shift to the TAs, who usually hold regular hours and study hall times. Is that not the case in this situation?

 

:iagree:Start with the TA, then go to the prof, but either should be able to help if you go about it in the right way. Big universities are just an institution, and they have to be navigated a bit like any other institution.

[bettyandbob]

My issue is the professors' lack of care for their craft - not the lack of services available from the school itself. Your comment about them being there solely for research helps put it into perspective. However, I would hope that the school, as a whole, would care about this. Wouldn't they be concerned if their drop-out rate was high because the teachers aren't really doing their jobs?

 

 

Some universities really are more concerned with the research a professor produces, not the quality of teaching.

[PrincessMommy]

Before we beat up the professors too much, let's put some things in perspective. A 300-person class is a lecture hall class. Professors often teach a couple of these, as well as some higher-level smaller classes that actually take up even more of their time. Generally, in a lecture hall class, you have to make appointments to talk to the professor unless they hold open office hours. Generally, it's the professor's TA's or secretary that handle things like tutoring referrals, or student services provides that info.

 

Depending on the class and the college, there is sometimes something else at play. For example, my low level astronomy classes were huge. A lot of students picked astronomy for a science requirement thinking it would be easy. For the university, the point of the classes were to separate the wheat from chaff before they got to the upper level physics program. Those taking it for an easy science soon learned otherwise and usually dropped it, while those that were on a science track struggled but came away from it ready to tackle the even more grueling future classes needed for their major.

 

During my college days I quickly learned that TA's were your best friend in those large classes. That, and take as few of them as possible!

 

I get what you are saying and it's certainly possible... but unfortunately, these are required classes for her major (Chem, Biology, Pre-Calc)... she's playing catch up so she's taking several harder classes at once. Since she transferred (and changed majors) she didn't get to ease into university life by taking an easier load.

 

Like I said before - it's not that they couldn't help her - it's that they didn't even seem to care. I even warned to not to expect HELP from the professor when she went to talk with them...but what I didn't expect was a "I don't care what happens to my students" attitude.

 

Her older sister is a TA so I'd be surprised if she didn't know about them already.

[PrincessMommy]

Did she do this in the moments before or after class or at office hours? Profs have a million things to juggle in the 5-10 min passing between classes including hiking themselves across campus, so they may very well have brushed her off during those times. Office hours are usually another story, and I only had 1 professor refuse to help me when I specifically sought him out during office hours.

 

Also, she needs to be specific about what she is struggling with. Profs will not know how to help if she just says she is studying not doing well b/c they have no idea how she is studying. Does she not understand specific concepts? Is she missing the key ideas from her notes? Does she need editing help on a paper?

 

 

 

:iagree:Start with the TA, then go to the prof, but either should be able to help if you go about it in the right way. Big universities are just an institution, and they have to be navigated a bit like any other institution.

 

I don't really know about all of them, but I *think* she went during office hours for at least one. There is somewhat of a jumble.. .one of the things I didn't mention was that her Chem professor (who really brushed her off) died suddenly a few weeks ago. New professor (who apparently has the WORST "rate-my-professor scores - according to dd) was already teaching the other Chem classes... so his load just jumped *a lot*. I don't think she's even tried to talk with him.

 

I think the newest issue is with the Pre-calc prof.

 

Oh and I did want to address the whole teachers having to teach to ALL kids even the ones taking it for an "easy grade". One of the reasons I encouraged her to go to her professor was to explain to her prof. that she wasn't a slacker. She was studying and trying very hard, but not getting a lot of results out of her work. I encourage her to explain to her prof. that she did care about the class and it was very important to her to do well.... and all she got as an "I don't care, it's not my problem". Needless to say...it was very discouraging.

[PrincessMommy]

One of the positives is that my dd is learning to deal with adversity. She's learning that sometimes people are not going to be on your side but you still have to do your best and work through it all.

[TranquilMind]

FairProspects: Office hours are usually another story, and I only had 1 professor refuse to help me when I specifically sought him out during office hours.

 

Agreed. I would suggest approaching the prof at his office hour.

 

Also, she needs to be specific about what she is struggling with. Profs will not know how to help if she just says she is studying not doing well b/c they have no idea how she is studying. Does she not understand specific concepts? Is she missing the key ideas from her notes? Does she need editing help on a paper?

 

Agree here also. She needs to be able to articulate exactly what she is not getting, for maximum results.

[PrincessMommy]

Agreed. I would suggest approaching the prof at his office hour.

 

 

 

Agree here also. She needs to be able to articulate exactly what she is not getting, for maximum results.

 

yes. I agree too.. it's an excellent point.

[FairProspects]

Personally, I think she should try at least once more with each prof (maybe they were having a terrible day or something) but if she can't get anywhere with them, has she looked into the tutoring center? All the major campuses have them, and she can usually get a tutor for any class for free as long as she is willing to show up and do the work.

 

Also, she should make friends with the kids in class who are asking the questions and getting it, and suggest forming a study group. I did this in many classes and we all got better grades because of it.

 

And, ask or look for test files. At our major campus, all the sororities and fraternities had test files on record with previous notes & tests for most classes, but definitely all the lower level weed out classes. Even though the exams were different from prof to prof, the basics were the same and it was incredibly helpful to compare your notes to someone else's and see examples of the tests and worked problems.

[PrincessMommy]

Personally, I think she should try at least once more with each prof (maybe they were having a terrible day or something) but if she can't get anywhere with them, has she looked into the tutoring center? All the major campuses have them, and she can usually get a tutor for any class for free as long as she is willing to show up and do the work.

 

Also, she should make friends with the kids in class who are asking the questions and getting it, and suggest forming a study group. I did this in many classes and we all got better grades because of it.

 

And, ask or look for test files. At our major campus, all the sororities and fraternities had test files on record with previous notes & tests for most classes, but definitely all the lower level weed out classes. Even though the exams were different from prof to prof, the basics were the same and it was incredibly helpful to compare your notes to someone else's and see examples of the tests and worked problems.

 

she started out with the free tutoring... and she got what she paid for. :glare: Then she tried emailing several tutors advertising and none replied (I think she waited way too long and they were busy by then), then she went to the Prof.

 

I love your idea about the study group - great idea. I don't really understand about the test files, but it sounds promising. I'll ask her about that too.

[OH_Homeschooler]

 

 

Some universities really are more concerned with the research a professor produces, not the quality of teaching.

 

And money. Grants are pretty much the most important thing.

[FairProspects]

she started out with the free tutoring... and she got what she paid for. :glare: Then she tried emailing several tutors advertising and none replied (I think she waited way too long and they were busy by then), then she went to the Prof.

 

I love your idea about the study group - great idea. I don't really understand about the test files, but it sounds promising. I'll ask her about that too.

 

Bummer. I had some good experiences and some bad at the tutoring center depending on who you got. :tongue_smilie:

 

The test files on our campus were maintained by the Greek system, so I don't know if that is the same everywhere, but if she knows anyone in a house, she should ask them. Panhellenic is pretty big on maintaining them everywhere to keep Greek grades up as a whole. She can easily go over to a house and study with the test file there. I know I had friends do this.

Edited November 9, 2012 by FairProspects

[Annie]

There are both benefits and challenges associated with going to a large research university, and she need to learn how to navigate them. I went to a very large university with a huge focus on research. I loved it, had many opportunities I wouldn't have at a smaller school, and saw friends do awesome research that led to success after school. The down side is that, in the entry level classes, you're not very likely to find professors who are thrilled to be teaching hundreds of recent high school grads that often have little actual interest in the subject matter. They are out there, but they're the exception to the rule.

 

Usually the list of things they like to do looks something like this:

 

1) Their own research

2) Work with phd candidates

...

17) Teach high level/graduate classes

...

143) Teach mega classes of undergrads

 

As a PP mentioned, did she go to him during office hours or after class? I wouldn't expect much after class, especially if it wasn't a specific question. I've never had a professor be completely unhelpful if I've done the following, 1) go during the office hours they set aside for the class 2) ask specific questions, rather than, "how can I do better on the tests?" 3) try to show interest in the actual subject matter rather than just interest in the grade.

 

The next part might be harsh, but it's the truth so... There are certain classes that are weed out classes. They are designed to have a percentage of students do poorly. At my competitive university there were a lot more students who wanted to get into the business school than there were spots for. They were all smart students, or they wouldn't have gotten into the university in the first place, but there had to be a way to sort out the students who would excel in business school. That meant there were a couple of entry level prerequisites that were just plain hard for no reason but to separate out the students who couldn't quite cut it. Two thirds of the applicants to business school weren't going to get in, and there had to be a way to figure out who they were going to be. I can completely see a student in accounting 100 at my school going up to the professor saying they were studying as hard as they could and still not getting good grades and having the professor basically say, "Sorry, that's how the cookie crumbles." When a certain percentage of the students are going to get a C, D, or F no matter what, and the student says they're already studying as hard as they can, I can see them thinking what else is there to do, say study even harder?

 

I hope she's able to figure out a way to get the help she needs to do great. It's probably going to be hard for this specific class since it's near the end of the semester. I would really encourage her to look for free tutoring services and organized study groups.

[Erica in OR]

To deal with the chemistry, she might check to see if there's an Alpha Chi Sigma chemistry fraternity on campus. I belonged to it at my university and one of the services we offered was free weekly tutoring, and we also had the test files that a previous poster described. There tends to be a mix of science majors who belong—chemistry, biochem, pre-med—so she might be able to get help or advice on some of the other courses she's taking as well. If they don't offer free tutoring, she might contact them to see if someone would be willing to do paid tutoring. There's a list of the fraternity chapters at https://www.alphachisigma.org/page.aspx?pid=262.

 

Erica in OR

[regentrude]

I am sorry your DD had a negative experience. It is definitely not OK of the professor to say "it is not my problem",

 

A few suggestions:

Talk to the professor at office hours of schedule an appointment. When did she speak to the profs? This is now the end of the semester - die she approach them early on? She should approach the instructor as soon as she finds herself struggling, as early as possible!

Come prepared. Have specific questions: are there learning centers? Tutoring opportunities?

 

I would be very surprised if the university did not have walk in tutoring or learning centers or other academic support in place. With the push for retention, this is the first thing universities do. So, is she availing herself of all opportunities for free learning assistance? You say she did not like the free tutoring: did she come prepared with specific questions? Were the tutors not qualified? If so, did she notify the faculty in charge of the tutoring program that there are problems?

 

Is the lecture class all there is? No tutorials or recitations? If there are, the recitation instructor is the better person to contact, because he sees the students in smaller groups.

 

Is she doing already everything she needs to do? This will be the first question the professor will ask: are you reading the assigned reading before class, taking notes and working through examples? Are you putting in two hours out of class for every hour in class? If she can not answer "yes" to these questions, the instructor will tell her to start by increasing time on task.

 

Good luck for your DD.

Large classes are no excuse for lack of support. We teach 450 students in one introductory physics course, and there are 20+ hours of free learning assistance from trained peer instructors and faculty available each week just for this class.

Edited November 9, 2012 by regentrude

[Guest submarines]

How poor, exactly, are her grades? Does the university bell curve the grades? Does she know how well the others are doing on that same tests?

 

In my experience from a large, "Ivy League-ish" school, is that to get a 70% grade you need to study non-stop, and extra hard. 70-75% was considered a great grade, actually, which was hard to get used to (I had 97% average in high school.)

 

It is unfortunate that her professors behaved this way. :grouphug:

[creekland]

but unfortunately, these are required classes for her major (Chem, Biology, Pre-Calc)... she's playing catch up so she's taking several harder classes at once. Since she transferred (and changed majors) she didn't get to ease into university life by taking an easier load.

 

??? Those are generally freshman classes... My freshman has Chem, Bio, Calc and a Brain/Cognitive Science class. It's common for those with his major. They aren't necessarily "easy" classes, but they are common freshman classes that many take right from high school.

 

Is she in any study groups? My guy started with those the first week of classes. They aren't "formal" groups - just kids getting together who want to study. They help tremendously. Are there smaller recitations? (My guy's school has these for large classes - I thought they were common, but perhaps not.) If so, can the TA there help? My guy tells me many kids opt to skip these... and their grades aren't generally as high.

 

IF the profs aren't willing to help (I'd try office hours and specific questions as mentioned before), then there are other avenues to try, but it might be a bit late to catch up.

 

No matter what... :grouphug:

[regentrude]

??? Those are generally freshman classes... My freshman has Chem, Bio, Calc and a Brain/Cognitive Science class. It's common for those with his major. They aren't necessarily "easy" classes, but they are common freshman classes that many take right from high school.

 

:iagree:

And, for many students precalculus is actually considered a remedial class that does not count towards their major.

I was puzzled by this as well.

[Corraleno]

Are there smaller recitations? (My guy's school has these for large classes - I thought they were common, but perhaps not.) If so, can the TA there help? My guy tells me many kids opt to skip these... and their grades aren't generally as high.

:iagree:

This was definitely true when I was a TA. I was always :confused: when kids I'd never seen all semester would show up a few days before finals complaining that they didn't know the due dates for essays, missed a couple of quizzes, and needed to know how they could bring their grade up. If they'd attended the weekly sections (recitations), they'd have known what I was looking for on the essays and when they were due; they'd have heard me cover everything that was on the quizzes, midterm, and final; and they'd be carrying an A or B, like most of the kids who did come, instead of a D, like so many of the kids who didn't. The sections were considered part of the course; they weren't "optional" any more than the lectures themselves were "optional." And in fact, the stuff we covered in the sections was generally more focused and more relevant to a student's grade than the lectures were (which generally just repeated the text).

 

Jackie

[MomatHWTK]

The university may have a study center that is intended to put the students together with tutors, etc. She might also check to see if there are any student formed study groups for the classes.

[creekland]

Ironically, middle son called us last night and related his week. One thing he mentioned was a Chem test... average for the class was 60+%. He said there was one question worth two extra points... "What is the name of your TA?" He knew (and got a 93% on the test), but he said he was surprised that most kids didn't know (reflected via the class average). The standard deviation was 25 - quite large - and I suspect a lot of that would correlate with who knew their TA too.

 

I didn't even remotely hint about this thread...

 

In another class (BCS) he said he is now the only one who attends his recitation (there are others for the same class that kids can go to). He's had one on one with his TA and has been able to not only get any questions answered, but has learned more about the subject overall and current research going on. The TA has also asked him what he would like to research and is going to hook him up with some profs. Kiddo doesn't actually need this recitation for an A as that class comes easily for him, but he goes anyway, and it now appears to have led to a gold mine as he really wants to get involved in research.

 

TAs can be super useful.

 

Many kids are so used to getting good grades on their own that they feel the same should happen in college. They start losing their self-esteem and thinking they are dumb when good grades aren't coming as easily. They aren't dumb. The work does (or should) get harder and they often need help getting it much in the same way adults on the job often converse with others to feel the most confident about their "plan." (Don't we all do that here when we ask each other about curricula and plans?)

 

IMO, the best thing you can try to do is see if you can help her realize what "helps" are around that she may not even have realized were there (like TAs and recitations) AND letting her know that most TOP students utilize those helps to be on top. She's definitely NOT a "lesser" student or person if she goes. She's a smarter student and it should reflect in her grades afterward. IF the school doesn't offer those, then it might be worth transferring to a school that does.

[PrincessMommy]

Ironically, middle son called us last night and related his week. One thing he mentioned was a Chem test... average for the class was 60+%. He said there was one question worth two extra points... "What is the name of your TA?" He knew (and got a 93% on the test), but he said he was surprised that most kids didn't know (reflected via the class average). The standard deviation was 25 - quite large - and I suspect a lot of that would correlate with who knew their TA too.

 

I didn't even remotely hint about this thread...

 

In another class (BCS) he said he is now the only one who attends his recitation (there are others for the same class that kids can go to). He's had one on one with his TA and has been able to not only get any questions answered, but has learned more about the subject overall and current research going on. The TA has also asked him what he would like to research and is going to hook him up with some profs. Kiddo doesn't actually need this recitation for an A as that class comes easily for him, but he goes anyway, and it now appears to have led to a gold mine as he really wants to get involved in research.

 

TAs can be super useful.

 

Many kids are so used to getting good grades on their own that they feel the same should happen in college. They start losing their self-esteem and thinking they are dumb when good grades aren't coming as easily. They aren't dumb. The work does (or should) get harder and they often need help getting it much in the same way adults on the job often converse with others to feel the most confident about their "plan." (Don't we all do that here when we ask each other about curricula and plans?)

 

IMO, the best thing you can try to do is see if you can help her realize what "helps" are around that she may not even have realized were there (like TAs and recitations) AND letting her know that most TOP students utilize those helps to be on top. She's definitely NOT a "lesser" student or person if she goes. She's a smarter student and it should reflect in her grades afterward. IF the school doesn't offer those, then it might be worth transferring to a school that does.

 

I was able to ask dd about TA's yesterday and her answer was 2 didn't speak English very well and the other was "no help" - whatever that means. I remember that my oldest had a lot of trouble with non-English speaking TAs. I have not heard much from my boys about this - they tend to grouse about it and then buckle down and do it no matter what (and are usually at the top of their class), where the girls call home crying.

 

She doesn't mind getting help - but she is frustrated that she works as hard or much harder than her peers and she still struggles. This comes up a lot.

 

How poor, exactly, are her grades? Does the university bell curve the grades? Does she know how well the others are doing on that same tests?

 

In my experience from a large, "Ivy League-ish" school, is that to get a 70% grade you need to study non-stop, and extra hard. 70-75% was considered a great grade, actually, which was hard to get used to (I had 97% average in high school.)

 

It is unfortunate that her professors behaved this way. :grouphug:

 

Yeah, she mentioned recently that her friends who've already taken the classes got similar test results and still came out with a B. I'm not sure exactly if she's only looking at her test grades (she says she's getting 110% on labs!!) and panicking or if she can see her overall grade already. I'll have to ask her.

 

I really do appreciate everyone's help and ideas. It's good to bounce these things around in my head.

[creekland]

Many curves do come at the end, so perhaps she will be pleasantly surprised. ;)

 

My guy hasn't had trouble with any accents. I guess that all depends upon who you get. I remember back when I was in school there were some with hard to understand accents.

[OrganicAnn]

Often the people who are non native English speakers like the TA actually speak prefect English, but with an accent. I've have people say they didn't understand someone with an foreign accent and I could understand them easily. They were just refusing to try or hadn't ever had to try. If she is going to take classes in science or technology, she will have TAs and even Professors that are not native English speakers. I can see a Prof not want to help a student who has not utilized the TA that are available. They see that as the TA jobs.

[Peplophoros]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said before, except that please please do not call the university or get directly involved in the matter. This is your daughter's education, her fight, her experience to learn from. Sure, you can help on the sidelines (you are obviously a thoughtful and caring parent), but please don't get into the game. Getting involved, in my opinion, is marginally ok in high school, never in college.

 

I am a college professor, and the two times a parent has gotten involved in my students' work, it turned out badly for them. Ok, so was already bad to begin with, but parental involvement just made it worse...and irritated the professor (me). It will make your daughter seem immature and not ready to handle college life. And frankly, they would be right.

[sgo95]

Lots of good advice already.

 

Any class with 300 students will have smaller discussion/recitation sessions led by a TA. The professor and each TA should have regular posted office hours. I agree with others that one should come with specific questions to ask. I can't imagine a professor taking any time to diagnose why your DD is not doing better. Like others have noted, at research universities, teaching undergrad classes is just a burden on the professors, distracting them from their real goal of publishing their own research. Their tenure and standing in their field is not based on teaching. As long as they maintain some reasonable distribution of grades within the class, the university won't really care, either.

 

The TA's accent is something your DD has to try to overcome. I know it makes it harder to communicate, but the fact is that TA's will have more time to help than the professor. Going to the professor for help on basic questions isn't a good idea sometimes. They already feel the material is super easy (compared to what their research involves) so it's hard for some professors to put themselves in your DD's shoes and be sympathetic and helpful.

 

In terms of your DD's frustration with the amount of work she has to put in, I know it feels terrible but the reality is that a grade is not truly based on merit. Sometimes it's the result of being lucky (just happening to study the right material) or plugging into a network of students who have previous years' class materials and tests. My DH and I have been in classes where the final asks for knowledge from other classes that we had happened to take already. Being a researcher who is able to publish at high levels doesn't mean the professor will teach well or write good exams.

 

Hopefully, your DD's grades will turn out fine due to the curve. Maybe she can ask the professor what her grade would be as of this point once a curve is applied? :grouphug: to her.

[PrincessMommy]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said before, except that please please do not call the university or get directly involved in the matter. This is your daughter's education, her fight, her experience to learn from. Sure, you can help on the sidelines (you are obviously a thoughtful and caring parent), but please don't get into the game. Getting involved, in my opinion, is marginally ok in high school, never in college.

 

I am a college professor, and the two times a parent has gotten involved in my students' work, it turned out badly for them. Ok, so was already bad to begin with, but parental involvement just made it worse...and irritated the professor (me). It will make your daughter seem immature and not ready to handle college life. And frankly, they would be right.

 

thank you. I've pretty much decided against it myself, but your note firms up my resolve. While I don't want to just throw her out in the cold, I strongly believe that she does have to learn to make her own way. Otherwise she'll never be truly independent.

[Jane in NC]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said before, except that please please do not call the university or get directly involved in the matter. This is your daughter's education, her fight, her experience to learn from. Sure, you can help on the sidelines (you are obviously a thoughtful and caring parent), but please don't get into the game. Getting involved, in my opinion, is marginally ok in high school, never in college.

 

I am a college professor, and the two times a parent has gotten involved in my students' work, it turned out badly for them. Ok, so was already bad to begin with, but parental involvement just made it worse...and irritated the professor (me). It will make your daughter seem immature and not ready to handle college life. And frankly, they would be right.

 

:iagree:

 

Rereading the initial post, I have another thought. The OP was dismayed that her daughter's profs seemed unwilling to help. For what kind of help was the student asking? If a student goes to the professor for clarification of a point after a lecture, the prof will usually clarify unless he needs to run off to another class immediately. A student needs to ask specific questions. In a lecture hall of 300, each student cannot expect a prof to redo a lecture or return to material from weeks past. If your daughter's understanding of the current material depended on ideas she missed from September, it is not the professor's responsibility to remediate.

 

Perhaps you can suggest that your daughter not only attend office hours but go with a list of written specific questions. (Vague "I don't get it" sorts of comments will not help here.)

 

Almost every math department at every college runs a lab where students can drop in for help or make an appointment to receive help. Colleges and professors do not want students to fail. Support systems are in place but it is students who must utilize them. Professors do not walk students to TA offices or help them find study group partners. This is one of the harder lessons that many students need to learn in college. They are in charge of their education now. (As a side note, I think this is where homeschooled students have an advantage.)

[1shortmomto4]

I'm late in the game here but I do have a college student with disabilities - that are documented so I've got a few thoughts. Are you dd's LDs documented and you've submitted the paperwork to the disability counselor? If you've provided all the required documents there is nothing to review - they need to do what is listed on your paperwork. The school does not decide what they will or won't do for your dd - the official paperwork stating what she needs is the final say - you can adjust from there (or rather the student). Typically the disability counselor/office will provide a letter, also called an MOA (memo of accommodations) (a bunch of copies actually) that the student then turns in to each professor just before or quickly thereafter to let them know of their needs. My ds was advised to meet and greet each professor in person before classes started and that made a BIG difference in establishing a connection with them. Granted, he's not attending a big university and most likely won't because of his LD (severe hearing impaired) because that would not be a good fit for his learning style/needs. But if you dd has documented LDs then under the ADA laws, the school must meet them - even if the professor doesn't like it. And if the student finds they need something added (ex. my ds needed paper tests rather than tests given on a computer screen then the MOA can be adjusted throughout the term as needed).

 

I know the popular opinion is not for mom to be involved but for us, until my ds became more familiar with he needed to ask for to meet his needs I have been involved. The disability counselor was a little hesitant at first to speak with me but when my ds explained that he wanted and needed me there and she realized that it was important to us, as family, that this kiddo succeed in college and she has been an answer to prayer helping him make this transition. We had one issue with a professor because my ds couldn't hear him and needed to have the professor use a special piece of equipment and she, the disability counselor, explained it to the professor and all was fine. I think the key here is going through the disability office - that is why they are there to help.

[laundrycrisis]

What I would recommend to your DD is to visit the office of the department the subject is part of. When I was at a large university, it was the department secretaries for each department who knew who all the grad students were. They might have had a list of grad students who wanted students to tutor, or a few times the secretary just started calling grad students she knew, or took my number (we didn't have email then) and asked them as they came into the office if they wanted a tutoring student.

 

I found some excellent help this way. The grad students could give me tips about getting through the classes with each professor. Getting to know grad students and gaining their respect made a huge difference. It is a network that is worth tapping into.

 

The other thing that was going on was in the buildings for each department, grad students would put tear-off flyers on the bulletin boards for tutoring. You could tear off a number and call and set up an appointment for cash. But if you went to the class in a large hall in another building, unless you visited the building specifically for the department, you wouldn't ever see these. This was a large campus with a lot of buildings. It was worthwhile to make regular visits to the specific buildings for each department even if I had no other reason to be there.

 

I also agree with what others have said ... if there are any sessions regularly led by a TA for a class, she should attend all of them. At a large university, with huge lecture classes, it's often expected in some departments that undergrads will go to the TAs for help and not to the professor. The TA is who you need. Each department kind of has its own culture. At the university I attended, it was the more technical departments that had this going on - math, science, engineering - we were expected to go to the TAs.

 

Another idea - does she have a major ? The department of her major might have a mentorship program that pairs lower division students with upper class students. A relationship with an upper class student could help - she could get tips for various classes and professors, and be put in touch with people who can help her.

 

My experience at a large university was that networking was very important.

Edited November 10, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[Giraffe]

I'm late to this as well, but wanted to encourage your DD to try the TAs again. My DH is a TA at a large uni and if I recall correctly he has had no one come to his office hours all semester, which he maintains diligently. He would love to help someone, but they have to come to him. Also, he is a non-native English speaker with a bit of an accent, but he is perfectly willing to repeat and explain as needed. It's his job and he takes it seriously.

[DianeW88]

I stay out of my college kids' issues with their professors and/or classes. They're old enough to handle it now, and having mommy step in to try and intervene will NOT win you any points and you'll be labeled a "helicopter parent".

 

I do give my kids advice if they ask...and most often it is to make an appointment with the professor, an administrator or your counselor to resolve your problem. That's always worked for them, and on the rare occasions that it hasn't, my kids have learned valuable lessons about the real world...sometimes people are incompetent and it will affect you negatively. Develop a strategy to mitigate the fallout and make it work for you. And sometimes professors are just buttheads and there's nothing you can do except suffer through the class. Oh, and give them a nasty review on "Rate my Professor" dot com. :D

[kalanamak]

For big classes, at least at Columbia, a grad student was assigned specific hours for asking questions. Many of us hired a tutor for a specific "hump" (the most common one in our Post Bac Pre-Med program was for the first few weeks of physics to learn how to read the story problems. They had a style that stymied many of us. AFAIR, 3 of us did it together with a nice Greek fellow, and I think we met 4 or 5 times for an hour. Then we "caught on".)