ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I had to show my drivers license. I've voted in three states and that has always been the case. Why on earth would that concern you? I wouldn't want someone to show up' date=' say they were me and vote in my place. THAT would concern me! ETA: I realize I read your question wrong. It would concern me if I didn't have to show a photo ID. So I agree with you in being concerned.[/quote'] but that doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 As far as I'm concerned, any voter fraud at all is a Problem. Who gets to set the bar for how much is too much or how much is enough to constitute a problem? Who gets to decide who can and cannot vote? It is well known that voter ID laws will disenfranchise voters. IMO refusing a citizen their right to vote is a greater evil, particularly when all evidence has shown that voter fraud is not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Are you being sarcastic? Voter fraud is common. But I live in Illinois so... show me something documenting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We didn't have to show ID either - and it bothers me. Like others have said, what's to prevent me from going to other polling places and saying I'm someone else? As far as the argument about poll tax - just have the states automatically provide a free ID when someone registers to vote, and make it clear that it will be required to be shown when you vote. I realize it's not quite as simple as all that - but it really isn't difficult, either. But all of that would cost money. Are you will to pay for that through an additional tax or increased cost for YOU to obtain your ID? The manpower and the materials to create "free IDs" still cost money. None of that would be cheap considering how many locations they would have to have. Even if it were set up through someplace like the DMV, you still have the transportation issue, which is very real for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 but that doesn't happen. People voting using another person's name? That has happened in my county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Who gets to decide who can and cannot vote? Well I think that was answered by the government long, long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Are you being sarcastic? Voter fraud is common. But I live in Illinois so... Of course I am not being sarcastic. Is it common? Where is documentation for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well I think that was answered by the government long, long ago. Voter suppression, intimidation, and disenfranchisement is a problem. It needs to be prevented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Voter suppression, intimidation and disenfranchisement is a problem. It needs to be prevented. I don't disagree, but I don't see having to prove you say who you are as being that. Do you always take everyone at their word for everything? Most likely not, so why is someone just verbally stating they are a name enough for something as precious at the right to vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well I think that was answered by the government long, long ago. Do you mean the Constitution or the lovely Jim Crow law passed by many states? IMO, voter ID laws are not-so-cleverly disguised Jim Crow laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There have been many studies on in-person voter fraud, and of course they all come back with slightly different numbers. But all show it's not a problem. One study conducted was based on elections since 2000. For 600,000,000 votes cast there were 10 verified incidents of in-person voter fraud. That's .000000001 of 1 percent. That's far from a problem IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Buckin' Longhorn Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 As far as the argument about poll tax - just have the states automatically provide a free ID when someone registers to vote, and make it clear that it will be required to be shown when you vote. I realize it's not quite as simple as all that - but it really isn't difficult, either. This is not what is being proposed. Many states are requiring citizens to purchase their own ID in order to vote. Voting should be 100% free. There should not be any cost or disinfranchisement of any kind. If states are willing to provide free photo identification, then I'd be interested. Otherwise, not hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 show me something documenting that. Yes please. And not accusations or registration cards made out to Mickey Mouse, but actual attempts to vote. The numbers are minuscule, but we hear so much more about this than orchestrated efforts to disenfranchise voters. I'll bet more voter registration cards have been illegally thrown away by canvassers in this election season alone than there have ever been documented cases of voter fraud by impersonation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.Balaban Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We get voter-id in PA, and when I registered to vote the first time I went to my new district I had to show ID. The booklet you sign next to has a box for your signature, and then next to it another box (facing the poll worker) who can see a previous signature photocopied onto the booklet. I guess theory there is that if the two signatures look vastly different, then they would notice. However, neither me or my DH were asked for ID. I also saw that on some boxes (on the same page as mine) it said "MUST SHOW IDENTIFICATION!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This is not what is being proposed. Many states are requiring citizens to purchase their own ID in order to vote. Voting should be 100% free. There should not be any cost or disinfranchisement of any kind. If states are willing to provide free photo identification, then I'd be interested. Otherwise, not hardly. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Do you mean the Constitution or the lovely Jim Crow law passed by many states? IMO, voter ID laws are not-so-cleverly disguised Jim Crow laws. Which law that's been proposed specifically says a certain group can't vote. None of the voter ID laws I've heard of specifically go against any one group. If these parties can manage to arrange for rides for people to polling places, why can't they arrange for them for people to get to a place to get an id that allows them to vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Yes please. And not accusations or registration cards made out to Mickey Mouse, but actual attempts to vote. The numbers are minuscule, but we hear so much more about this than orchestrated efforts to disenfranchise voters. I'll bet more voter registration cards have been illegally thrown away by canvassers in this election season alone than there have ever been documented cases of voter fraud by impersonation. If you google KATC or KLFY, new stations from Lafayette, LA, you will find a story about students who registered to vote at a student registration drive, only to discover their registrations were mysteriously lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We have to show ID - I've usually used my license but today I actually used my voter ID card because I figured it'd be easier (license still has old address on it, in a different ward). They have a list of the people in the ward that can come vote, but we can't just tell them our name and them let us go. I'm glad - I think it's a necessary thing. :) ETA: I'm pretty sure a voter ID card doesn't cost anything - ours gets sent to us randomly just because we're registered to. People can register to vote here when they sign up for their driver's license, food stamps or medicaid (and it's free). There really is no reason that I have seen for people to claim any injustice in requiring an ID to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Exactly. If the government requires me to have an ID for voting then they better pay for it. Voting should not cost me money. I'm sorry you don't value voting very much. Even public schools require some for of ID and they do charge a fee (in high school). If a person does not have the funds for an ID, I'm sure they qualify for other government programs that issue them so sort of ID to prove participation in such programs. If one vote is fraudulent, then it may nullify my vote and I don't appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 And pay for the id of course. That I'd be on board with. I agree I think they should be free, but I don't get those that are still opposed to free IDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Which law that's been proposed specifically says a certain group can't vote. None of the voter ID laws I've heard of specifically go against any one group. If these parties can manage to arrange for rides for people to polling places, why can't they arrange for them for people to get to a place to get an id that allows them to vote? Sure, groups can arrange transportation to a place in order to obtain IDs, but who is going to pay for them? The poor people barely putting food on the table? The political party? If a political party pays, I'd think that would raise some serious ethical questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We don't show ID in Oregon (vote by mail), but every signature is checked against the one on file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We have to show some sort of ID if we did not have our voter registration card. There was a big upset about voter ID laws last year I believe in a few states, but most did not want to show any proof of ID to vote. I have heard from several people on other message boards that they did not have to show a voter card or any ID, but they were allowed to vote. Voter fraud is rampant, and so is fraud at the poll stations. We need a better plan honestly. Yes, I am bothered by it, and it has nothing to do with who wins, and everything to do with making a mockery of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Voter fraud, in the sense of someone showing up as someone else, is TINY. ID laws, on the ohter hand, affect large numbers of people. Particularly the eldery and the poor, who can't afford, or can't manage, to track down and pay for a birth certificate if it has been lost, stand in line somewhere, miss work etc just to get an ID. I know that sounds crazy, but that IS the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Which law that's been proposed specifically says a certain group can't vote. None of the voter ID laws I've heard of specifically go against any one group. If these parties can manage to arrange for rides for people to polling places, why can't they arrange for them for people to get to a place to get an id that allows them to vote? The voter id laws would specifically disenfranchise minorities. Even Fox News acknowledges that. http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/voter-id-laws-could-disproportionately-hurt-young-minorities/ You think a party can get hundreds of thousands of people IDs?? If the state makes the laws the state can provide the IDs. Edited November 6, 2012 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sure, groups can arrange transportation to a place in order to obtain IDs, but who is going to pay for them? The poor people barely putting food on the table? The political party? If a political party pays, I'd think that would raise some serious ethical questions. Well they sure can make it easy for people to register by having drives for that, why not have drives and fundraisers for Voter IDS. I know there are states out there that will issue a free ID if it's for the purpose of voter identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweiss Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm sorry you don't value voting very much. Even public schools require some for of ID and they do charge a fee (in high school). If a person does not have the funds for an ID' date=' I'm sure they qualify for other government programs that issue them so sort of ID to prove participation in such programs. If one vote is fraudulent, then it may nullify my vote and I don't appreciate that.[/quote'] :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree I think they should be free, but I don't get those that are still opposed to free IDs. I don't think people are necessarily opposed to free IDs. There are just a whole boatload of problems that go along with it. Free IDs to require voters to show IDs sounds great, but how many people would complain about the tax required to pay for that? You just cannot make everyone happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sure, groups can arrange transportation to a place in order to obtain IDs, but who is going to pay for them? The poor people barely putting food on the table? The political party? If a political party pays, I'd think that would raise some serious ethical questions. And state budget cutbacks have greatly increased the cost of birth certificates, wedding certificates, etc., items often necessary to get the acceptable ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We have to show ID - I've usually used my license but today I actually used my voter ID card because I figured it'd be easier (license still has old address on it, in a different ward). They have a list of the people in the ward that can come vote, but we can't just tell them our name and them let us go. I'm glad - I think it's a necessary thing. :) ETA: I'm pretty sure a voter ID card doesn't cost anything - ours gets sent to us randomly just because we're registered to. People can register to vote here when they sign up for their driver's license, food stamps or medicaid (and it's free). There really is no reason that I have seen for people to claim any injustice in requiring an ID to vote. they are not talking about your voter card. They are talking about picture ID, like driver's license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry you don't value voting very much. Even public schools require some for of ID and they do charge a fee (in high school). If a person does not have the funds for an ID' date=' I'm sure they qualify for other government programs that issue them so sort of ID to prove participation in such programs. If one vote is fraudulent, then it may nullify my vote and I don't appreciate that.[/quote'] I value the rights of others as much as myself. I don't appreciate any vote not being counted, even if it nullifies my own. My family fought in the Revolution, were in the Union Army and still could not vote due to their NA blood. I place an extremely high value on my vote and the vote of others. Your post was extremely rude. Edited November 6, 2012 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 they are not talking about your voter card. They are talking about picture ID, like driver's license. In NC, we don't have to show anything. We just have to know our address. Showing a voter card would be an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well they sure can make it easy for people to register by having drives for that, why not have drives and fundraisers for Voter IDS. I know there are states out there that will issue a free ID if it's for the purpose of voter identification. yes, but to get that free ID you need your birth certificate, which is NOT free, and hard to get for say, the elderly that have moved far from where they were born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm in FL and had to show my DL and it was scanned. They don't require showing your voter registration card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The voter id laws would specifically disenfranchise minorities. Even Fox News acknowledges that. http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/09/12/voter-id-laws-could-disproportionately-hurt-young-minorities/ I'll look at the link, but does the law specifically say latinos are not allowed to get an ID? Ok now that I looked at it they are saying it's because youth are poor and transient and aren't able to get the necessary documents together to get the photo ID, then how in the world are they able to get the documentation together to even register to vote? Don't you have to prove that you are over 18 and a citizen with certain documentation? Well you need pretty much the same documentation in order to get an id? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoy85 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have to show my ID (which i cant because it says KY and i am voting in OH) OR a pc of mail with current address/name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'll look at the link, but does the law specifically say latinos are not allowed to get an ID? Ok now that I looked at it they are saying it's because youth are poor and transient and aren't able to get the necessary documents together to get the photo ID, then how in the world are they able to get the documentation together to even register to vote? Don't you have to prove that you are over 18 and a citizen with certain documentation? Well you need pretty much the same documentation in order to get an id? My high school civics teacher registered 18 year olds to vote. I did not show him an ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durriyyah Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 We only have to show it if we didn't register ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have to show my ID (which i cant because it says KY and i am voting in OH) OR a pc of mail with current address/name. and it's that piece of mail thing that scares me. Who's to say someone didn't steal that from you trash and is just saying there you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Exactly. If the government requires me to have an ID for voting then they better pay for it. Voting should not cost me money. :iagree: This is on the ballot in our state to require ID. This would cost our state 100 million dollars to implement and there is NO record of anyone ever impersonating another voter. All voter fraud cases in our state have been related to someone being convicted of a felony and then attempting to vote, which voter id would not help at all. When you register to vote (which you can do on election day), you do need to have proof of address (several ways to do this). Once you register, if you stay at the same address, you're good to go. So anyway, not worth the cost in our state IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 My high school politics teacher registered 18 year olds to vote. I did not show him an ID. I'm sure this varies by state, I had to show 5 forms of identification in order to get my licence transferred from FL to VA and register to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) :iagree: This is on the ballot in our state to require ID. This would cost our state 100 million dollars to implement and there is NO record of anyone ever impersonating another voter. All voter fraud cases in our state have been related to someone being convicted of a felony and then attempting to vote, which voter id would not help at all. When you register to vote (which you can do on election day), you do need to have proof of address (several ways to do this). Once you register, if you stay at the same address, you're good to go. So anyway, not worth the cost in our state IMO. Felons are not prevented from voting in all states and some permit them to vote again after a period of time. http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=286 (I don't disagree or agree with link it just had information on it) Edited November 6, 2012 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm sure this varies by state, I had to show 5 forms of identification in order to get my licence transferred from FL to VA and register to vote. It likely does, I changed my registration at the DMV when I moved from one state to another but every state is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have never had to show id in either state I have lived in. I sign my name and they check my signature agaimst the one on record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'll look at the link, but does the law specifically say latinos are not allowed to get an ID? Ok now that I looked at it they are saying it's because youth are poor and transient and aren't able to get the necessary documents together to get the photo ID, then how in the world are they able to get the documentation together to even register to vote? Don't you have to prove that you are over 18 and a citizen with certain documentation? Well you need pretty much the same documentation in order to get an id? When I registered to vote (last month), I didn't have to prove anything. I just signed a form that said everything I put on the form was true and I could be prosecuted if I had lied. It did ask for my SS number. I did have to show ID at the polling place. They had a sign saying they would take photo IDS or credit cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Which law that's been proposed specifically says a certain group can't vote. None of the voter ID laws I've heard of specifically go against any one group. If these parties can manage to arrange for rides for people to polling places, why can't they arrange for them for people to get to a place to get an id that allows them to vote? The law specifically prevents people who don't have state issued photo ids from voting. That is the group of people it specifically prevents from voting. That group of people is being disenfranchised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm sorry you don't value voting very much. Even public schools require some for of ID and they do charge a fee (in high school). If a person does not have the funds for an ID' date=' I'm sure they qualify for other government programs that issue them so sort of ID to prove participation in such programs. If one vote is fraudulent, then it may nullify my vote and I don't appreciate that.[/quote'] I'm sorry you could not use your nice words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This is the thing. First, no actual problem in the first place...it just is NOT happening people. There is no proof of it. And certainly not enough to influence an election. However, there ARE enough people without ID to change the course of an election, if they can't vote. People like the elderly, who have moved, lost their birth certificate, and can't get an ID from the state without one. These are not people with computer access that can track down the cerk of the court or health department or whatever across the country that may have their birth certificate, IF they can still get it. Not to mention even if they track it down they have to pay for it. Or the poor, that don't have a ride to the health department, even if it is local, to get a copy, then another ride to go get the ID. Or the working class that can't afford to take a day off work to go track down and wait in line for their birth certificate and then ID. (it can take HOURS for both here). PUt all those impediments together and there are people that will NOT be able to realistically vote. And that is wrong. It goes against everything I believe in. And all this to stop voter fraud that has no actual documentation of happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3Maidens Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I'm the OP and well.....I think most of us can agree that our government needs a better plan, bottom line. It's been interesting to hear everyone's opinions. I still just think you still need to show some sort of ID, preferably a photo one. I'm feeling like a few others are feeling in that we have to show ID for a lot of things whether it be medical, passports, or whatever. Heck, we're taxed for so much now anyway what's a small fee for voter ID's? I can't think of a better reason to be taxed, to make sure our voting system is reliable. I realize that's just my opinion though. I'd sure be willing to pay for mine through a few dollars every four years on my water bill or whatever. Just saying. Peace everyone and thanks to all who replied :-) Edited November 6, 2012 by Momof3Maidens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in KY Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 afaik, you don't have to in NY. Here in KY, I had to give my everything but the deed to the house to vote. Sheesh. When I worked in NYC, I had a proud democrat-voting illegal immigrant with no papers and no US Passport tell me he had voted for every dem since Carter vs. Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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