s/o what seat 4-8yr olds

[Pamela H in Texas]

What seats are y'all using that your 5 and 6yr olds are in five point harnesses? I have small kids but our seats don't five point so high. I have a few more pounds for my 5yo. My 6yo is barely over.

 

Also, we had an 8yo (turned eight this week) for the weekend. I think she was too tall for our boosters, but not tall enough to not have one at all and not heavy enough either. I was also worried though because we drive a 12 passenger van so the backs of the benches aren't very high. If she sat in the seat, her head/neck would be protected, but if she is in a booster without a back, they wouldn't be. And at what point can't they use the back of the booster height wise? And is the back really appropriate in a bench seat with a low back?

 

Similar questions regarding her 9yo brother.

[Stratford]

My 5 yr old (36 lbs) is in a 5 pt harness, a Radian seat that harnesses/latches up to 65 lbs. He has several inches of growing room left, I anticipate he'll be well over 6 (b-day next April) before we can even think about switching.

[Acorn]

My nearly 7 year old has a Radian 65 and a Graco Nautilus.

[Momof3littles]

DS 1 is 8.5 and used a Britax Frontier harnessed until he was about 6-7, and then we went into booster mode using that seat.

 

I have a mini van and for road trips, it was handy to be able to put three across the 2nd row. I put him in a Graco Turbobooster for that, as it was narrower and able to fit in between DS2 and DD's seats.

 

DD (5.5) rides harnessed in a Recaro; I'm blanking on the model.

[mom2jjka]

We have 2 vehicles, and between the two - my girls (ages 7 and 9) ride harnessed in a Graco Nautilus, a Britax Frontier, and a Britax Regent (which expires in January.)

[kitten18]

My kids will be 9 and 7 next month. They are both in the Graco Nautilus. They have at least one more harness slot before they outgrow the seat. They will then use the seat as a high back booster.

[momma aimee]

my 4 (amost 5 "most most 5" as he says) and my 6 (almost 7!!! how did THAT happen) are both still in 5 point harnesses!!

 

when they outgrow the 5 point they will be in high back booters.

[vonfirmath]

What seats are y'all using that your 5 and 6yr olds are in five point harnesses? I have small kids but our seats don't five point so high. I have a few more pounds for my 5yo. My 6yo is barely over.

 

My 5 year old still fits fine in the harness on his Evenflo Maestro.

 

The Graco nautilus and Britax Frontier 85 also have higher height and weight limits.

[SonshineLearner]

Britax Booster looks great! It's a 4 pt harness, basically. You have the seat belt go across them and then there's a spot that the seat belt that goes across their hips or whatever... crosses through to make it stay in place.

For my son I had a 5pt Britax that I've just let him out of at 9yrs old, but I'm almost tempted to order one of the Britax since it would work for a couple more years. My main concern is him flying "out" during a crash :(

[courtney.byrum]

Graco Nautilus here - both kids 7 & 8 fit but just barely heightwise. They still have about 15 lbs to go weightwise, but we converted both to boosters around 6 or so.

[AdventureMoms]

My 42" 4yo is in a Britax Frontier with miles to go. She will probably get moved to a dedicated booster before she outgrows it because her brothers will have outgrown their seats (The 1st Years Complete Air) though their seats do harness pretty high and theoretically until 65lbs. They will outgrow by height long before that, I think.

[Seeking Squirrels]

My 4 yo is in a Diono Radian RXT. It rf to 45lbs and she's only 35 but she is forward now. It will harness her until 80 lbs or until she is too tall. She's tall but all legs so we've got a while. I will harness her to at least 6 and then it will depend on maturity. She's forward in a True Fit in DH's car, it will go to 65lbs. In grandma's car she is in a MyRide which will also go to 65 lbs forward facing. But she is still rf in that one.

 

For a child not tall enough to skip the booster but with no head support I would want a high back. Some of them require that there is support behind it and some do not.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

The Britax Frontier, Graco Nautilus, and Evenflo Maestro all convert to a booster and harness longer than the old 5 point harness then convert to booster seats that only harnessed up to 40 pounds. My DS has a Nautilus and a Britax Regent which is a large forward facing only seat that is not sold anymore.

[swellmomma]

Has anyone used the Evenflo SecureKid 400? I have to buy a replacement for dd now that we were in that accident. I need one that is fairly narrow, this one looks to be but is it really? She will be 5 in a couple weeks, 41 lbs the last time I weighed her. I want her to stay in 5pt as long as possible before moving into a booster.

[Mom-ninja.]

My 8 yr old is in a Graco Nautilus and my 11 yr old is in a Britax Regent.

[staceyobu]

Britax Booster looks great! It's a 4 pt harness, basically. You have the seat belt go across them and then there's a spot that the seat belt that goes across their hips or whatever... crosses through to make it stay in place.

For my son I had a 5pt Britax that I've just let him out of at 9yrs old, but I'm almost tempted to order one of the Britax since it would work for a couple more years. My main concern is him flying "out" during a crash :(

 

My understanding is that once a child is over 4 AND 40lbs AND sits appropriately in the seat, there is not necessarily any advantage to having a child in a 5 pt harness and it could put the child at greater risk for head and neck injury. So, personally, I wouldn't even try to harness a 9 year old. A high back booster also isn't going to provide more safety than a backless booster. I would feel excellent about having a 9 year old in a backless booster if he is too short to sit properly without a carseat.

 

Things that are definitely safer:

1. rearfacing as long as possible

2. harnessing a child that is less than 4/40lbs/or a wiggle worm that has a hard time sitting properly

3. boostering a child that can't sit correctly in a seat without a booster

[Mommy_of_4]

My 5yr old is in a Britax Frontier. I love it!. My almost 4yr old is still RF in a Graco Myride.

[Mom-ninja.]

My understanding is that once a child is over 4 AND 40lbs AND sits appropriately in the seat, there is not necessarily any advantage to having a child in a 5 pt harness and it could put the child at greater risk for head and neck injury. So, personally, I wouldn't even try to harness a 9 year old.

 

 

There is a reason race car drivers have 5 pt harness.

 

 

If one wants to harness their child as long as possible, great. They do not have to. Lots of logistics go into the decision. However, stating that 5 pt harness does not have an advantage or can put someone in greater risk is not correct.

[Runningmom80]

Britax frontier 85. DS 5 just hit 4' (95%) and he still has another slot to go in the frontier.

[staceyobu]

What seats are y'all using that your 5 and 6yr olds are in five point harnesses? I have small kids but our seats don't five point so high. I have a few more pounds for my 5yo. My 6yo is barely over.

 

Also, we had an 8yo (turned eight this week) for the weekend. I think she was too tall for our boosters, but not tall enough to not have one at all and not heavy enough either. I was also worried though because we drive a 12 passenger van so the backs of the benches aren't very high. If she sat in the seat, her head/neck would be protected, but if she is in a booster without a back, they wouldn't be. And at what point can't they use the back of the booster height wise? And is the back really appropriate in a bench seat with a low back?

 

Similar questions regarding her 9yo brother.

 

Graco Nautilus and Britax Frontier are going to be bigger harnessed seats. The froniter converts to a better rated booster than the nautilus, but the nautilus is cheaper.

 

For the older kids, I believe the booster or headrest should be above their ears. I think with the britax booster at least that you can use it with no headrests or low headrests... but, don't take my word on that. Have you seen the test to see if they can sit properly without a booster?

 

car-seat . org is a good place to post car seat questions (although sometimes I feel the advice can be a little over the top!).

[Mommyof4ks]

My 7 yr old is still in his Graco Nautilus. He will have to move out of the harness soon, because he is 52" and nearly to the top of the height on the harness part. I have yet to find one that would allow him to continue with the harness, and due to his tiny frame I would like for him to remain in the harness. Since your kids are smaller that seat might Last for many years to come.

[Momof3littles]

My understanding is that once a child is over 4 AND 40lbs AND sits appropriately in the seat, there is not necessarily any advantage to having a child in a 5 pt harness and it could put the child at greater risk for head and neck injury. So, personally, I wouldn't even try to harness a 9 year old. A high back booster also isn't going to provide more safety than a backless booster. I would feel excellent about having a 9 year old in a backless booster if he is too short to sit properly without a carseat.

 

Things that are definitely safer:

1. rearfacing as long as possible

2. harnessing a child that is less than 4/40lbs/or a wiggle worm that has a hard time sitting properly

3. boostering a child that can't sit correctly in a seat without a booster

If I remember correctly, one other issue is that a high back booster with side protection wings, etc. may be advantageous if the car lacks side curtain airbags, for example. LBB can definitely be a safe option, and I have seen a bit about the HBB vs. LBB comparisons, but I would also take into consideration side impact safety of your car.

 

DS1 uses a HBB; I'd be okay with a backless in my car where we have side curtain airbags. DH"s car does not, so on the rare occasion DS1 rides in that car, I would definitely want him to have a HBB. We tend to just use the HBB anyway.

[staceyobu]

There is a reason race car drivers have 5 pt harness.

 

 

If one wants to harness their child as long as possible, great. They do not have to. Lots of logistics go into the decision. However, stating that 5 pt harness does not have an advantage or can put someone in greater risk is not correct.

 

I probably don't have time to re-look up all the research I did after we were in a car accident last summer. However, I looked at a lot of studies and information that car seat techs were putting online.

 

I have not seen any research that points towards it being safer to have an older child in a 5 pt. However, I would more than happily read anything anyone wants to link me.

 

Some countries with very high car safety ratings go straight from rear facing to boostering with no forward facing harness time at all. (However, their rearfacing seats go to higher weights/heights than american seats and it is illegal to import them.)

 

Race car drivers have very different accident scenarios than regular driving situation. So, it is really comparing apples to oranges.

 

I just don't see any advantage to having a child older than about age 6 in a harnessed seat. However, I used to be of the opposite opinion until looking at lots of studies!

[Soror]

Ds8 is in the Graco Nautilus and DD5 will be moving to one as well when the new baby comes, then dd, who will be 3 is moving to the dd 5-Marathon. It's musical carseats at my house :) My kids are small so it isn't hard to find anything. I liked the Nautilus though because it is convertible and should last ds until he is ready for a regular seat.

[vonfirmath]

I just don't see any advantage to having a child older than about age 6 in a harnessed seat. However, I used to be of the opposite opinion until looking at lots of studies!

 

A neurotypical child older than age 6. There is a definite advantage in having a child harnessed who is not mature enough to be responsible for their own safety in a booster.

 

As for the race car analogy --race car drivers also wear helmets that are attached to the car, etc. If you want to be "just like a race car" -- make sure you are applying all of their safety standards.

 

i'd show pictures of race car folks to a kid who was fighting being in a harness, afraid that only "Babies" ride in car seats (because of the unfortunate comments by some). But I don't accept them as "equivalent' to a kid riding in a car.

Edited September 6, 2012 by vonfirmath

[happypamama]

We have a Graco MyRide 65 that fit my oldest son until age 5. (He had, I think, pretty much outgrown it at that point, but we needed it for DS2 then anyway.) By that time, he was finally 40 pounds and able to use a high-back booster safely and comfortably.

 

We have DS2, currently almost 4, in the MyRide in one vehicle, and an Evenflo Maestro in the other. I picked the Maestro because it's slim and fits well in the small vehicle. I haven't looked at him in it in a while (it's in DH's car), but I believe he still has a long time to go in the harness. I will, in the next few months, switch DS3 to the MyRide, and then DS2 will get the Maestro in my vehicle (the van), with the harness still, for as long as the harness fits him. Then he'll use the Maestro as a booster. (Not sure what we'll put him in in DH's car when we move the Maestro to my van. . . he'll be 4, so legally, he can use a high-back booster, but I'm not sure he's 40 pounds yet. Ugh, I don't really want to have to buy another Maestro, but maybe I will. At least the baby will get use out of it at some point too, and I think our high-back booster will have expired by then anyway, since I think we got it when DD was 4, and she's 10 now.)

 

The Graco Nautilus is a good choice for a higher harness limit. I can't remember why I went with the Maestro over the Nautilus, but there was some reason why I did.

Edited September 6, 2012 by happypamama

[Seeking Squirrels]

There is a reason race car drivers have 5 pt harness.

 

 

If one wants to harness their child as long as possible, great. They do not have to. Lots of logistics go into the decision. However, stating that 5 pt harness does not have an advantage or can put someone in greater risk is not correct.

 

Race car drivers also have restraints to keep their head back against the seat. Once a child fits a booster and is mature enough to sit correctly, there is no evidence that a 5 point harness is any safER than a booster. Still safe, but not safer than a properly used booster.

[AdventureMoms]

There is a reason race car drivers have 5 pt harness.

 

 

If one wants to harness their child as long as possible, great. They do not have to. Lots of logistics go into the decision. However, stating that 5 pt harness does not have an advantage or can put someone in greater risk is not correct.

 

Race car drivers have helmet tethers to reduce the neck strain from a 5pt harness in an accident. The evidence of long-term harnessing (after 5 or 6yo) vs boosters is very mixed from what I've seen. The Sweedes (who RF their kids until 4yo+) don't harness kids at all FF because they feel the research favors boosters for FF children. I do not think that harnesses are UNSAFE for older kids, but I don't think I'd assume they're safer. I've never seen strong evidence to that point (unlike RF vs FF).

Edited September 6, 2012 by AdventureMoms

[staceyobu]

If I remember correctly, one other issue is that a high back booster with side protection wings, etc. may be advantageous if the car lacks side curtain airbags, for example. LBB can definitely be a safe option, and I have seen a bit about the HBB vs. LBB comparisons, but I would also take into consideration side impact safety of your car.

 

I had read some information that said side impact crashes still involve some amount of forward movement typically. (For instance, you are driving through an intersection and someone hits you from the side.) In that case, the child would be thrown forward past the car seat wings anyways. So, I think a HBB is *possibly* better. Possibly not. My almsot 8 year old is still in a HBB. However, if she was fighting against being in a booster or when she gets another inch taller and I can't see out the back window because of the carseat, I'll feel fine about moving her to a LBB.

 

 

A neurotypical child older than age 6. There is a definite advantage in having a child harnessed who is not mature enough to be responsible for their own safety in a booster.

 

I agree... and this is one thing I warn others about. If you have a kid that will slip out of a booster buckle for any reason, even momentarily... then leave them harnessed. Better a harness buckle than no shoulder buckle at all. So, some kids might be okay in a booster at 6... some at 7... some at 8.

 

I just really think it is wrong to say that a harnessed seat is always safer at *any* age. However, some argue that if we don't say that, we'll have 18 month olds in boosters because most parents want the least amount of carseat safety required. But, when you are going for the *most* carseat safety... it gets a little trickier to figure out.

 

I can say, I feel very good about my 7 year old riding in a booster. I feel that I chose the safest option for her. I don't feel like she is a step down in safety from a harnessed seat.

[SkateLeft]

My 6.5 year old uses a Graco Nautilus. He has a growth disorder, and his bone age is about 2 years delayed, so at this rate, he'll be in it for a good long time.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I hope I didn't start the controversy part of this. I was thinking that I like the idea for harnessing 4-6yr olds because (dare I say) no 4yo, and certainly not MY 4yo, is going to keep his back against the back of the seat 100% of the time. Well, and because with a large family, 5points allow us to more easily put 3 kids in a row. Now my 4yo is teeny so will fit in his harness that goes to 40 pounds for years longer, but we also have a 5 and 6 yr old AND regularly have visitors (whether for a couple days or months or ???). However, my dd reminded me that the seat we got Monkey goes up to 65. My kids will have double digit ages by the time they hit that weight!

 

My big question regarding the 8 and 9yr olds...I think I have this more clear now:

 

In the 12 passenger van, the seats are benches and fairly low backed. If the child sat in the seat, their heads wouldn't be above the top of the bench. If the child sits in a booster without a back, their head is over the bench top. But I don't think they fit the high back properly (I need to research this more, I think). Just wonder what the RIGHT answer is.

Edited September 6, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[craftyerin]

My 5yo rides in a Graco Nautilus, but he is using it in booster mode now. I changed him over right around his birthday. He sits beautifully in it, behaves great. My best friend is a CPST, and she is in agreement with CPSTAnnie (posted above) that if they behave and sit well in a well fitting booster, that there is no evidence to suggest that they should remain in a harness at 5, 6, 7, and older.

[Kathryn]

My 5yo rides in a Graco Nautilus, but he is using it in booster mode now. I changed him over right around his birthday. He sits beautifully in it, behaves great. My best friend is a CPST, and she is in agreement with CPSTAnnie (posted above) that if they behave and sit well in a well fitting booster, that there is no evidence to suggest that they should remain in a harness at 5, 6, 7, and older.

 

:iagree: only my son is six and switched to booster mode right after his sixth birthday. We switched because the crotch strap was hurting him, but I've heard the newer models have the crotch straps farther out.

[Shellydon]

Nautilus.

[Shellydon]

I hope I didn't start the controversy part of this. I was thinking that I like the idea for harnessing 4-6yr olds because (dare I say) no 4yo, and certainly not MY 4yo, is going to keep his back against the back of the seat 100% of the time. Well, and because with a large family, 5points allow us to more easily put 3 kids in a row. Now my 4yo is teeny so will fit in his harness that goes to 40 pounds for years longer, but we also have a 5 and 6 yr old AND regularly have visitors (whether for a couple days or months or ???). However, my dd reminded me that the seat we got Monkey goes up to 65. My kids will have double digit ages by the time they hit that weight!

 

My big question regarding the 8 and 9yr olds...I think I have this more clear now:

 

In the 12 passenger van, the seats are benches and fairly low backed. If the child sat in the seat, their heads wouldn't be above the top of the bench. If the child sits in a booster without a back, their head is over the bench top. But I don't think they fit the high back properly (I need to research this more, I think). Just wonder what the RIGHT answer is.

 

 

My 8/9 year olds fit in the Monterey booster easily. I feel fairly certain a car seat tech would tell you that the safest would be for the child to be in a high back booster. If they do not fit in a high back, they must be in a backless with an appropriate head rest. My vehicle has two center seats with no headrests. Only the 5 point harness child is allowed to ride there.

[staceyobu]

I hope I didn't start the controversy part of this. I was thinking that I like the idea for harnessing 4-6yr olds because (dare I say) no 4yo, and certainly not MY 4yo, is going to keep his back against the back of the seat 100% of the time. Well, and because with a large family, 5points allow us to more easily put 3 kids in a row. Now my 4yo is teeny so will fit in his harness that goes to 40 pounds for years longer, but we also have a 5 and 6 yr old AND regularly have visitors (whether for a couple days or months or ???). However, my dd reminded me that the seat we got Monkey goes up to 65. My kids will have double digit ages by the time they hit that weight!

 

My big question regarding the 8 and 9yr olds...I think I have this more clear now:

 

In the 12 passenger van, the seats are benches and fairly low backed. If the child sat in the seat, their heads wouldn't be above the top of the bench. If the child sits in a booster without a back, their head is over the bench top. But I don't think they fit the high back properly (I need to research this more, I think). Just wonder what the RIGHT answer is.

 

How much of their head is over the seat back in a backless booster? Are the tops of their ears above or below? If above and they don't pass the test to sit in the regilar seat, I would put them in a high back booster that doesn't require support behind it. You should be able to look at user manuals online if no one knows off the top of heir head. If the tops of their ears are below the headrest, I'd put them in a low back booster of your choice.

[RoundAbout]

I have a 48 inch tall 5 year-old still harnessed in a Britax Frontier in our main car and an Evenflo Maestro in our second.

 

My son is tall and outgrew his Britax Boulevard by height at 3.5 - there was simply no way he was mature enough at that age to sit appropriately in a booster, especially for long rides. Actually we just switched the Maestro to a booster since he was almost at the weight limit for harnessing (50 lbs). The Frontier will be good for a long while.

[Lab1]

My 95% 3 1/2 yr old is in a Britax Frontier. Love his seat! He has lots of room in it and it turns to a huge booster when he is ready. My girls are in hbb for side impact protection. They were in a 5 pt harness until they outgrew their Brirax convertable seats height wise. At the time there weren't the better options we have now. My oldest was small and nearly 7 when she got her hbb.

 

Every step up you make gives less protection to your child. Everyone is safer rear facing, then in a 5 pt harness forward facing, then hbb, then lbb and the least protected in a normal 3 pt seat belt. Keeping your 4-8 yr old harnessed as long as possible is the best thing for them! Get the biggest seat you can afford!

[Dinsfamily]

My oldest three are all in Nautiluses. Love them! Oldest just grew out of it by height, but he is tall for his age (75%ile). I have no problem with him in it as a booster now maturity-wise. Ds6 will likely be in it for quite awhile.

[NanceXToo]

My son was in a Britax Boulevard 5 pt harness car seat til he was nearly 6 1/2. Now he's in a Graco Turbobooster high backed booster seat.

[Mommy22alyns]

Both girls ride in Britax Regents, which are not made anymore. If I were to buy them 5pts now, it would be the Britax Frontier. Their seats expire in about a year, so Sylvia will go to a highback booster. Rebecca is getting too tall for a highback, so we'll test her next year and decide what to do. She can ride without a seat in DH's tiny car.

[jackson'smama]

almost 8 yo ds is in a britax...frontier? i can't remember the name.

[LaxMom]

We have SafeGuard Go seats (soft back, nice for reclining slightly so they don't pitch forward when they fall asleep). They go up to 65#, and convert to the "phone book" type booster (you remove to back and add a belt adjuster) that still attaches with LATCH.

 

I've never understood how those boosters can be safe without LATCH... The kids are sitting on something not attached to the car! :confused:

[Mommy_of_4]

We have SafeGuard Go seats (soft back, nice for reclining slightly so they don't pitch forward when they fall asleep). They go up to 65#, and convert to the "phone book" type booster (you remove to back and add a belt adjuster) that still attaches with LATCH.

 

I've never understood how those boosters can be safe without LATCH... The kids are sitting on something not attached to the car! :confused:

 

The only job of the booster is to raise the child up so the seatbelt fits correctly. The child's weight helps keep the seat in place since it acts like the childs hips.

[Terabith]

Honestly, my kids haven't outgrown any of their seats by weight but by height. None of them are close to the weight limits of the Britax (I forget which kind), but it just didn't fit by torso height anymore. We also got into the issue of seats expiring and I couldn't really justify purchasing a $200 + seat (per child) to gain a couple of inches of torso height, so they went into high back boosters somewhere between 5 and 6. I also was not convinced of the evidence that harnessing longer was significantly safer, especially given the amount of money we were going to have to shell out. We were also running into issues in that as they got older, they wanted to ride with other people more often (friends, grandparents, etc) and reinstalling car seats was overly challenging. It's not the IDEAL, safety wise, but it seemed to be a reasonable time to make the transition.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Terabith
sheesh....get distracted typing and have an incomplete sentence