Article on "wacky facts" in A Beka and BJU

[Kathryn]

One of my old grad school profs posted this on her Facebook this morning with this comment: "These textbooks are used across the country by many private schools and homeschoolers. Textbooks are a major battleground and all reflect the biases of the writers and publishers. If you are interested in your child's education, take time to look at their textbooks and raise issues with the schools and school board."

[FairyMom]

One of my old grad school profs posted this on her Facebook this morning with this comment: "These textbooks are used across the country by many private schools and homeschoolers. Textbooks are a major battleground and all reflect the biases of the writers and publishers. If you are interested in your child's education, take time to look at their textbooks and raise issues with the schools and school board."

 

While I appreciate the article, this is likely to be a controversial thread. Among many, many reasons, this was one of the main reasons we couldn't send our girls to private school here; this is the curricula they are using.

 

Can't wait to see the responses on this one. :lurk5:

[*********]

Um... :001_unsure:

[elegantlion]

:lol::lol::lol: I had a few WTH moments with an Abeka American history book for elementary ages. I wondered when they were going to get to actual American history, not religious history. That was the last Abeka book we used for many reasons.

 

Yes, I think people should know what is the text they are teaching and what kind of company is producing those books. I'll leave it at that.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is why I think vouchers are a bad idea. I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

[SailorMom]

I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

 

 

:iagree:

[HollyDay]

I found the comments section interesting as well

[Kathryn]

I was interested in the set theory quote. This was article was posted in response to it: "What do Christian Fundamentalists Have Against Set Theory?"

Edited August 8, 2012 by kebg11

[justasque]

This is why I think vouchers are a bad idea. I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

 

Rabbit trail:

In my state, the state will allot private schools a certain amount of $ each year for each state resident enrolled. The $ can be used to buy books and other materials on a certain approved list. Religious books are excluded. The school basically has to hang on to the books for 6 years (IIRC), during which they can be used by any student from the state, and after 6 years they can give them away but not sell them. Books can be used for state residents only, not ever students from other states. They must be stored separately, etc. Basically the school can build up a collection of "state textbooks" for things like math, and books for courses like religion must be purchased by the parents (or the school).

The state will also provide a school bus for 10 miles or less.

It's an interesting way to help with the expense of private school without getting too mixed up in religion or other issues.

[tntgoodwin]

This is why I think vouchers are a bad idea. I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

 

Ditto for public schools too, right?

[LucyStoner]

Ok, I just had to laugh at the idea of algebra taught "unburdened by set theory". Wow.

 

What I find interesting about voucher supporters is that they tend to be social conservatives who identify themselves as fiscal conservatives. Vouchers are "demand side" and would, if you listen to standard supply siders logic on any other topic, tend to increase the price of private schools as parents who could afford to pay on top of the vouchers still would. Classic unintended consequence of well meaning but misguided public policy. The same people have previously argued against student based aid for college, as it is the same form of demand side subsidy that would be assumed under that paradigm to cause inflation in he market being subsidized. Yet there is a huge blind spot for school vouchers.

 

I am fine with school choice and vouchers but I don't think they should be able to be used at schools where the books don't meet the state standards and are driven mainly by religious ideology.

[elegantlion]

Rabbit trail:

In my state, the state will allot private schools a certain amount of $ each year for each state resident enrolled. The $ can be used to buy books and other materials on a certain approved list. Religious books are excluded. The school basically has to hang on to the books for 6 years (IIRC), during which they can be used by any student from the state, and after 6 years they can give them away but not sell them. Books can be used for state residents only, not ever students from other states. They must be stored separately, etc. Basically the school can build up a collection of "state textbooks" for things like math, and books for courses like religion must be purchased by the parents (or the school).

The state will also provide a school bus for 10 miles or less.

It's an interesting way to help with the expense of private school without getting too mixed up in religion or other issues.

 

Part of the problem with BJU and Abeka is this is the science and history textbooks, and math apparently. Many private christians don't want their children using "state approved" textbooks anyway. So if it were just a religious textbook that would work, but it permeates the entire range of texts.

[FaithManor]

This is my face - :001_huh:.

 

Faith

[Karen in CO]

But I like Mark Twain. I need more coffee before I can stir a pot, but it never occurred to me that people don't believe in The Great Depression. Sadly, I've heard most of the others before. But I was surprised by the depression one. How can Steinbeck have created the myth of the great depression with one book?

[elegantlion]

 

I am fine with school choice and vouchers but I don't think they should be able to be used at schools where the books don't meet the state standards and are driven mainly by religious ideology.

 

There was a kerfluffle with this voucher program because one of the elected officials that voted on it didn't realize that "religious material" also meant other religions besides christian religion. So in theory this voucher program could be used for a private school teaching Islam or Judaism.

[Mrs Mungo]

Rabbit trail:

In my state, the state will allot private schools a certain amount of $ each year for each state resident enrolled. The $ can be used to buy books and other materials on a certain approved list. Religious books are excluded. The school basically has to hang on to the books for 6 years (IIRC), during which they can be used by any student from the state, and after 6 years they can give them away but not sell them. Books can be used for state residents only, not ever students from other states. They must be stored separately, etc. Basically the school can build up a collection of "state textbooks" for things like math, and books for courses like religion must be purchased by the parents (or the school).

The state will also provide a school bus for 10 miles or less.

It's an interesting way to help with the expense of private school without getting too mixed up in religion or other issues.

 

So, does a book that praises the Trail of Tears because some Indians converted count as a history book? That is the question. Plenty of similar stuff in Abeka's history.

 

Ditto for public schools too, right?

 

Of course, but they already have a system of public accountability.

 

But I like Mark Twain. I need more coffee before I can stir a pot, but it never occurred to me that people don't believe in The Great Depression. Sadly, I've heard most of the others before. But I was surprised by the depression one. How can Steinbeck have created the myth of the great depression with one book?

 

Magic? And Woody Guthrie?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Woody Guthrie was one powerful dude but I don't think he came up with the Great Depression on his own. Wait, I know! It was Earl Hamner Jr. that fleeced the nation on that one. Dang Waltons.

 

I knew there were problems with Abeka and BJU but I didn't know of very many examples. Now I want to buy all of it and read it so I can understand some hs'ers better, because I have a feeling that everything will all suddenly make sense.

 

The one that really floors me right now is the KKK reference. I don't know why I'm so shocked, when I do know about BJU's stance on racial issues that persisted up until, like, yesterday.

 

This is bad.

[Mrs Mungo]

There was a kerfluffle with this voucher program because one of the elected officials that voted on it didn't realize that "religious material" also meant other religions besides christian religion. So in theory this voucher program could be used for a private school teaching Islam or Judaism.

 

I really don't understand why people cannot grasp the Establishment Clause.

[LucyStoner]

There was a kerfluffle with this voucher program because one of the elected officials that voted on it didn't realize that "religious material" also meant other religions besides christian religion. So in theory this voucher program could be used for a private school teaching Islam or Judaism.

 

That would be another one of those pesky unintended consequences I guess. ;) I really don't want taxpayer money going to religiously dictated instruction in the academic subjects. That goes for any variety of religion, even my own variety.

 

Besides what college math major is going to advance in the field if they are unburdened by set theory? My main issue is setting kids up for a hard time by not teaching what they are expected to know in basic university classes.

[Dobela]

Considering that there is no single book or curriculum that is going to satisfy all people, this is always going to be an issue. I was on curriculum committees when I taught public school and those would get pretty heated at times over what was/wasn't taught in certain publishers versions of any subject.

[justasque]

Part of the problem with BJU and Abeka is this is the science and history textbooks, and math apparently. Many private christians don't want their children using "state approved" textbooks anyway. So if it were just a religious textbook that would work, but it permeates the entire range of texts.

 

Right. The PA program only lends "preprepared learning materials which are secular, neutral, and nonideological in character and are of benefit to the instruction of school children on an individual basis and are presently or hereafter provided for public school children of the Commonwealth." In other words, if the public schools are using it, the state will purchase a copy to lend to a PA student who attends private school (even private religious school). So if the private school uses secular texts for things like math, they can borrow them from the state on behalf of the students, but if they want to use ABeka or BJU or other religious materials, the program would not be of much use. Many of the local Catholic schools use this program, as they often use secular texts for things like science/math/literature anyway.

 

The program will also loan "books, periodicals, documents, pamphlets, musical scores, desk charts, games, study prints and pictures, desk maps, models, compasses, protractors, rulers, meter sticks, abacuses, thermometers, test tubes, safety goggles, gloves, counting frames, T-squares, specimens used for dissection, kits, and blocks or cubes." It does not loan consumables, such as "chemicals, wall maps and charts, pencils, notebooks, chalk, erasers, duplicating fluids or paper, 16 mm films, unexposed film, blank cassettes..."

[Lady Florida.]

This is why I think vouchers are a bad idea. I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

 

:iagree:

 

Considering that there is no single book or curriculum that is going to satisfy all people, this is always going to be an issue. I was on curriculum committees when I taught public school and those would get pretty heated at times over what was/wasn't taught in certain publishers versions of any subject.

 

So was I, and it was difficult to get everyone to agree. However, religious materials were never even on the table (no pun intended) so that was not an issue.

[Kathryn]

As you can see from my signature, I'm using A Beka's Health this year (I got it for a dollar). I'm not sure for how much longer as every time, I'm having to counter what I read to DS and we end up just laughing. For instance, the food groups are listed as:

-Milk (we are told ad nauseam that this is God's perfect food and you need 3-4 glasses a day)

-Meats

-Citrus Fruits

-Leafy Green and Yellow Vegetables

-Other Fruits and Vegetables (which they call roughage)

-Breads, Cereals, Rice, and Pasta

-Fats and Oils

[Truscifi]

:001_huh: The Great Depression was faked? Seriously?

[Parrothead]

Wow. Just wow. I knew they were bad, but I didn't' realize how bad.

 

I don't understand how either publisher is still in business.

[Parrothead]

:001_huh: The Great Depression was faked? Seriously?

That one caught me off guard. I'd not heard it before.

[justasque]

I noticed that many of the references in the "Wacky Facts" article are from texts as much as 20 years old, which I think is kind of sloppy on the author's part. (It's only been 12 years since BJU lifted their ban on interracial dating...)

 

This article is similar, but also based on an old text.

[Slartibartfast]

:001_huh: The Great Depression was faked? Seriously?

 

I find that stunning. How many of us have or had grandparents who spoke of the depression?

 

My grandfather and his siblings all picked cotton as children. We've made sacrifices and have had times where things were tight but I cannot imagine having my children pick cotton in 110+ degree heat day after day after day.

 

He said something once about his lunch was always a biscuit with bacon grease on it. Well sure I would eat that (:lol:) but everyday? That is all he ate for lunch?

 

I just don't get it. Why try to change the truth?

[nmoira]

 

I was interested in the set theory quote. This was article was posted in response to it: "What do Christian Fundamentalists Have Against Set Theory?"

I read this yesterday and almost posted it here. I just can't wrap my head around it. Call me gobsmacked.

[nono]

I find that stunning. How many of us have or had grandparents who spoke of the depression?

 

 

I'm one generation closer. My parents grew up in the Depression. Nowhere near the "faked dustbowl." ;) It was no party in the East either. Catsup and butter sandwiches, anyone?

[catz]

:001_huh: Wow - that was interesting reading.

[*Lulu*]

I noticed that many of the references in the "Wacky Facts" article are from texts as much as 20 years old, which I think is kind of sloppy on the author's part. (It's only been 12 years since BJU lifted their ban on interracial dating...)

 

This article is similar, but also based on an old text.

 

While I agree that it was sloppy, or indicative of the author's personal agenda, the fact remains that after the year 1990 a textbook publisher was putting forth the craziness outlined in the article. It doesn't really matter to me what they are saying now because the outrageousness of thier past stand on many issues overshadows everything else.

[FairyMom]

This is why I think vouchers are a bad idea. I think people do have the right to question what kids are taught on the taxpayer's dime.

 

:iagree:

[Slartibartfast]

I'm one generation closer. My parents grew up in the Depression. Nowhere near the "faked dustbowl." ;) It was no party in the East either. Catsup and butter sandwiches, anyone?

 

They don't actually imply the Dustbowl was faked do they?

 

I mean, it does taunt Steinbeck but surely not the Dustbowl as well? That would be like saying Johnstown Flood was fake or the Galveston Hurricane was fake.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Sis

[Mom2Es]

I think the reason they do this is to set up FDR as a horrible president. I've been hearing that often lately. You know, he started all those awful programs....blah blah...entitlement poo....

 

FWIW, my grandfather was an adult during the Depression, he was a lifelong Democrat, and he thought FDR was a horrible president.

[FairyMom]

I'm surprised there aren't any BJU or ABEKA defenders popping in.

[Slartibartfast]

FWIW, my grandfather was an adult during the Depression, he was a lifelong Democrat, and he thought FDR was a horrible president.

 

 

My grandfather who picked cotton in the Oklahoma heat was a Republican, but he wouldn't have lied.

[Jenny in Florida]

Considering that there is no single book or curriculum that is going to satisfy all people, this is always going to be an issue. I was on curriculum committees when I taught public school and those would get pretty heated at times over what was/wasn't taught in certain publishers versions of any subject.

 

And publishers respond to their markets.

 

We got to church with a woman who worked in the editorial department of a major textbook publisher based in our area. She loved to tell us stories about the different versions of texts the publisher produced in order to satisfy various school districts around the country. One of my favorite examples was when they were told to rewrite a caption on a picture of a fossil to remove the actual number of years old it was, changing the phrasing to "a long time ago" so as not to offend any YE readers.

 

And yes, these are texts used in public schools. (I believe that particular edition was intended for Texas.)

[FairyMom]

And publishers respond to their markets.

 

We got to church with a woman who worked in the editorial department of a major textbook publisher based in our area. She loved to tell us stories about the different versions of texts the publisher produced in order to satisfy various school districts around the country. One of my favorite examples was when they were told to rewrite a caption on a picture of a fossil to remove the actual number of years old it was, changing the phrasing to "a long time ago" so as not to offend any YE readers.

 

And yes, these are texts used in public schools. (I believe that particular edition was intended for Texas.)

 

You are right, Jenny. One of the very many reasons we homeschool.

[nono]

They don't actually imply the Dustbowl was faked do they?

 

I mean, it does taunt Steinbeck but surely not the Dustbowl as well? That would be like saying Johnstown Flood was fake or the Galveston Hurricane was fake.

 

Isn't The Grapes of Wrath a fictionalized account of a family dealing with the fall out of the Dustbowl? (It's been a long time since I read it.) Hence why I used the term "faked" because it was a fictionalized account of a real event. The point being that even if the book was pure bull regarding what was happening in the midwest, other parts of the country were not having usual times. So, the "exaggeration" of the Depression cited in the text still doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Slartibartfast]

Isn't The Grapes of Wrath a fictionalized account of a family dealing with the fall out of the Dustbowl? (It's been a long time since I read it.) Hence why I used the term "faked" because it was a fictionalized account of a real event. The point being that even if the book was pure bull regarding what was happening in the midwest, other parts of the country were not having usual times. So, the "exaggeration" of the Depression cited in the text still doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

I was in earnest. I haven't read the A Beka books.

 

If they said the Dustbowl was actually comprised of green cheese I wouldn't know.

[Mergath]

I'm surprised there aren't any BJU or ABEKA defenders popping in.

 

Probably because there is no way to defend that much crazy.

[nono]

I was in earnest. I haven't read the A Beka books.

 

If they said the Dustbowl was actually comprised of green cheese I wouldn't know.

 

I was commenting based upon the text in the article. :) I have no idea what else any other book by either publisher says. I don't think they would encompass the Roman Catholic/Episcopalian/Taoist/Buddhist perspective our homeschool embraces. ;)

[Slartibartfast]

I was commenting based upon the text in the article. :) I have no idea what else any other book by either publisher says. I don't think they would encompass the Roman Catholic/Episcopalian/Taoist/Buddhist perspective our homeschool embraces. ;)

 

I see, I couldn't raise Christian NA children with those books. They contradict one another. I don't just throw up stumbling blocks, I can't imagine answering, "Mom, but why did God hate NAs?"

 

Many NAs were Christians before the Trail of Tears, many were during the other removals. Religion did *not* prevent any removals. I don't believe in attributing evil deeds to God.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Sis

[FairyMom]

Probably because there is no way to defend that much crazy.

 

:iagree:

[8circles]

I know a few people who homeschool with abeka. I'll have to ask them about some of these... set theory? Who knew?

 

The scary thing to me is a friend of mine was telling me, just a couple days ago, about a new virtual school in our state which will give you funds to purchase your choice of curricula from an approved list. Abeka is on that list. I have not looked into this to verify so i'm hoping she has it wrong.

[Cammie]

I can't be the only one wondering why BJU would be advocating for the existence of dragons?? Tried to do a google search but didn't come up with much. Why, oh why, would evangelical Christians be invested at all in whether or not dragons were real???

[EthiopianFood]

I can't be the only one wondering why BJU would be advocating for the existence of dragons?? Tried to do a google search but didn't come up with much. Why, oh why, would evangelical Christians be invested at all in whether or not dragons were real???

 

Wasn't there a verse in the KJV that mentions dragons, or something like them?

[Spy Car]

I can't be the only one wondering why BJU would be advocating for the existence of dragons?? Tried to do a google search but didn't come up with much. Why, oh why, would evangelical Christians be invested at all in whether or not dragons were real???

 

I know Answers in Genesis claims legends and artwork with St George and the Dragon and other dragon tales as "proof" that man walked with dinosaurs.

 

Wacky.

 

Bill

[EthiopianFood]

I know Answers in Genesis claims legends and artwork with St George and the Dragon and other dragon tales as "proof" that man walked with dinosaurs.

 

Wacky.

 

Bill

 

Oh, that's right! I forgot about AIG.