What do you think...Judge tells Mom to cut off girl's ponytail

[Jeannie in NJ]

that's my kind of judge.

[SKL]

I only hope the girl had enough sense to learn from the consequence. How dare her family act like her hair matters when she's taken it from a very young child like that. Does the 13yo's mom understand that this is assault?

 

I remember being 13. I could not imagine doing such a thing - even to my own bratty 3yo siblings.

[laundrycrisis]

Kids are way too coddled. IMO the entire sentence was too lenient. Assault is assault, even if they only cut her hair. The judge was too easy on her. If it was my courtroom, the original sentence would have been much more harsh in the first place, and the offer would have been for a number 1 crew cut followed by a personal apology to the little girl, in court, to reduce it, not just a ponytail trim. Let off waaaaaay too easy. And the mom who is filing a complaint about the judge is enabling her child's horrible character.

[Jean in Newcastle]

How sick to groom and then target that little one like that.

 

This is what bothers me about the situation more than the hair itself. In the other bullying instance she was a mean girl in a cyber bully situation. Not good but at least the other girl was the same age and had some control because there was no direct physical contact. In this one she purposely targeted a young defenseless child as her victim.

[Harriet Vane]

This is what bothers me about the situation more than the hair itself. In the other bullying instance she was a mean girl in a cyber bully situation. Not good but at least the other girl was the same age and had some control because there was no direct physical contact. In this one she purposely targeted a young defenseless child as her victim.

 

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

I think she should have had to shave her own head...GI Jane look.

 

Too lenient. They need to come down on this stuff with both feet so that just maybe these kids don't end up as stalkers and prison dwellers. 13 is still young enough to turn around with some good, healthy fear of the long arm of the law.

 

Faith

[swellmomma]

All of these stories lately make me glad I am a mean mom I am. I received a lot of flack when ds broke into the bottle depot. No one knew it was him, there was no witnesses, but I found out. I drove him right to the police, he returned every penny and I turned him in. The owner of the depot did not press charges because of it, but I would have supported any charges they pressed. The same with the firs 2 years ago, he did his community service with me by his side monitoring it and making sure he was getting it done. The police told me when I turned him in they never see that, that generally parents deny deny deny. When he did his community service for the fire there was 2 other boys involved, 1 never showed up, and 1 showed up late and dicked around the whole time. The fire department supervisor told me he was impressed with the amount of involvement I put into his hours. It's been 2 years without anymore fires or break ins, he knew he could not hide behind me. I will not bail my kids out of trouble, I will stand behind the cops charging them. When ds got caught trying to shop lift last year the store said he could not go back into the store until he wrote a letter of apology. I did not allow him to write that letter until last week. So for 1 year I made him walk over with us and stand outside waiting. I didn't care the weather I made him stand there and wait. He has now written his letter and has permission to go in again. The manager told me she has not seen a family maintain the punishment for so long, but I wanted it to really sink in.

 

I was called many many things by those that know us, told I was a bad mom, not protecting my kids blah blah blah because I turned him in like that. I was actually shocked when I heard that most parents the cops etc deal with do not do that. I want my kids to learn there is consequences for actions and if you do the crime you do the time kwim.

 

Being the hard a$$ mean mom has it's good points. Both big kids have CD and could be like any of the kids we have heard about lately, ds has a long way to go, but dd12 is on her way to having the label down graded to ODD, which is a vast improvement. She is grasping that there is no where to hide, no one is letting her off the hook for her screw ups.

 

The judge was was too lenient in this case but I am more angry with the girl's mother than the judge. The girl is clearly a predator and this is just the beginning and the mom wants to b*tch about a hair cut. Maybe mom needed the same punishment as the girl.

[gardenmom5]

I only hope the girl had enough sense to learn from the consequence. How dare her family act like her hair matters when she's taken it from a very young child like that. Does the 13yo's mom understand that this is assault?

 

I remember being 13. I could not imagine doing such a thing - even to my own bratty 3yo siblings.

I saw a pic of the mom - she needed to learn something too as she thought the haircutting was "not that big a deal". Mom's hair is past her waist. obviously, the mom over values hair length. having mom cut off her "d"d's hair would bring it home more for her. she didn't want to cut that much off, and was told to take it off up to the rubberband - that's why she got mad and filed a complaint.

Edited June 23, 2012 by gardenmom5

[kalanamak]

Unfortunately I think the judge just fed into the mother's ego and the teen's sociopathic behavior. Instead of punishment both the mom and the kid got even more attention. And they will be able to "dine off the story" for months.

 

He should have just set the community service and be done with it.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Truscifi]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

 

:iagree:

 

Technically not, but my 12 and 13 yr olds do with their little siblings. They know that the park is pretty much for the little kids so they are careful and let them have run of the place, but they still like to climb through and play too. I know they are not doing bad things to kids, and often the parents there have been pleased my kids were there because they tend to get the 7-10 yr old boys playing hide-n-seek, or crawl tag etc, which from what we have been told has made the playpark more enjoyable with less squabling. I like having them in there because they can go through and help my 4 yr old etc where as I can't.

 

As to the OP, I don't think my dd would have made it to court with a long ponytail, I would have likely cut it off as soon as I heard what she had done. How sick to groom and then target that little one like that.

 

And that is why I agree she got off too easily. That is predatory behavior, and combined with her previous history indicates a serious problem.

[La Texican]

Now to continue the eye for an eye the victim needs to file a civil suit, only because the other mother didn't let it drop. If it's not thirteen year olds having babies it's thirteen year olds acting like babies in the news.

[Mary in VA]

And that is why I agree she got off too easily. That is predatory behavior, and combined with her previous history indicates a serious problem.

 

:iagree: I would be worried about this girl in the future because she sounds like she has no empathy for others at all, maybe a future sociopath?

[DarlaS]

:iagree: she need to know how it felt to be bullied

 

:iagree:

 

Except I think they should have let the 3 year give her a haircut. :w00t:

 

And kept ALL the community service hours.

[Galatea]

I agree the judge should have made her do all the community service hours. I think the judge wanted to make her have a more personal punishment though. Maybe he could tell that the mother wasn't going to do anything more than he did?

[Ghee]

hello? the teens went across the street and bought scissors after the McD's employees wouldn't lend them any. (which demonstrates how much thought they put into cutting the little one's hair.)

 

What I'm wondering is where were THEIR parents? I would never allow my 10 or 13 year old children to hang out somewhere without me. And this child apparently already had known "issues" with bulllying/terrorizing other kids? Heck no.

 

Technically not, but my 12 and 13 yr olds do with their little siblings. They know that the park is pretty much for the little kids so they are careful and let them have run of the place, but they still like to climb through and play too. I know they are not doing bad things to kids, and often the parents there have been pleased my kids were there because they tend to get the 7-10 yr old boys playing hide-n-seek, or crawl tag etc, which from what we have been told has made the playpark more enjoyable with less squabling. I like having them in there because they can go through and help my 4 yr old etc where as I can't.

 

As to the OP, I don't think my dd would have made it to court with a long ponytail, I would have likely cut it off as soon as I heard what she had done. How sick to groom and then target that little one like that.

 

The bolded is what gets me. It sounds like this girl is well on her way to becoming a predator. How many child molesters snatch any old child vs how many single one out and work on gaining their trust? Sick, sick, sick.

 

I, too, have older children who have played with my younger son in playplaces. I agree, it can be a real help to me. However, if there are very young children trying to play, I won't let them, as my younger son will happily play with other children. If it's slightly bigger kids, I will let them but I do caution them that the smaller children are the ones with the right to be there. If they aren't careful, letting the little ones play, they would have to sit down.

 

I think the judge let her off easy. She should have done the full punishment time for the harrassment of the other teen, and had her hair cut for the assault on the little girl. Frankly, I think the little girl's mother should have been let to shave that girls head bald, like a scarlet A so that she knew that everyone who saw her would know what happened. Is there any word if those girls are banned from that McDonald's? If not, they should be!

[Bang!Zoom!]

It's sort of sad, it's obvious both the 13 year old and mom have issues no hair cut is going to cure.

 

Could be an underlying mental health issue that with the right help could be overcome.

[pdalley]

The girl should have had her head shaved. Completely.

 

The judge deserves a medal and the complaining mom deserves a swift kick in the rear and to open her eyes to her own child's behavior. Why is she worried about her child's hair when it's obvious the problem is the brain underneath it?

[Education Explorers]

I have mixed feelings. It's terrible that these kids did that and they obviously deserve to be punished, but why is this a court case in the first place? What a waste of government money that the parents couldn't deal with it themselves.

 

On the other hand, it's such an obvious and fitting punishment - it's the very definition of a logical consequence. And how pathetic that the mother said, "I never dreamt it would be that much of a punishment." It's a haircut! And with a mother who thinks that's too harsh for her bully of a kid just shows exactly why it ended up in court in the first place.

 

Juvenile Court is set up for exactly this type of case. The original intent behind JC was to get kids back on track before they became adults and the consequences became life-altering. Unfortunately Juvenile Court is handling cases that are true adult felonies: Aggravated Assault, Aggravated Battery, Vehicular Homicide, Burglary, Robbery etc. The available punishments in JC do not fit the heinous nature of many of the felonies that are being perpetrated by juveniles.

 

The goal of JC is the rehabilitation of the child and the court looks at the whole child, family circumstances etc. in deciding what is in the child's best interest. Punishment while often a factor, is not the purpose of JC, rehabilitation is the goal. (As opposed to Superior Court where an adult felon's sentence is determined by the facts of the case, prior criminal history and victim impact statements. Punishment is the focus and Rehabilitation, if any were to occur, would be an added bonus.)

 

I have no words...I cannot believe that kids can be so mean and their parents tolerate it!

 

That's exactly the root of the problem (the bolded part.) DH and I were discussing the bus monitor bullying last night, and I wondered out loud whether this kind of behaviour meant that they had uninvolved (or worse) parents, or whether they could've been from "nice" families (speaking broadly here.)

 

 

 

DH, who has experience with juvenile court, said that it is extremely rare, almost unheard of, that a parent is present during a hearing, even if parents are called (not sure if required) to attend every court procedure for a minor.

 

Now, can you imagine not attending your child's court appearance? Now imagine what kind of people would not attend it, and what kind of upbringing these children are having. It is sad and terrifying, really.

I was a prosecutor in Juvenile Court for six months in an Atlanta Metro county. Six months was the average rotation because burn-out was so high. These "families" are so unbelievably messed up that it is demoralizing.

 

In GA, parents are required to be present for a delinquency hearing or the child has a guardian ad litem appointed for them. Often the state will be paying for a defense attorney and a guardian for the child because the parents can't be bothered to deal with their own children.

 

Within minutes of the parent speaking regarding the incidents for which the children were before the court it was glaringly obvious what was so screwed up in the home that would lead the child down this delinquent path. The deficiencies always fell into at least one of three categories: 1) Love; 2) Nurturing or 3) Discipline. Often it would be a combination of these three things.

 

It was so very rare to have a kid from a good home who just had a brain fart and gave into peer pressure to shoplift or break into a car etc. On average, we had 60 delinquent children four days a week. (The last day was reserved for trials.) We averaged about 1 good kid from a decent family a month. Due the math on that... 1 good family out of 960 losers! Usually they were well on their way with their chosen path of being life-long criminals. I recognized many 17-19 year old felons as kids I had prosecuted in JC. This is why it was so utterly draining. It sucked your soul dry.

 

Works for me. I am rather tired of bullies not getting any consequences...adult or child.

 

Amen.

 

Kids are way too coddled. IMO the entire sentence was too lenient. Assault is assault, even if they only cut her hair. The judge was too easy on her. If it was my courtroom, the original sentence would have been much more harsh in the first place, and the offer would have been for a number 1 crew cut followed by a personal apology to the little girl, in court, to reduce it, not just a ponytail trim. Let off waaaaaay too easy. And the mom who is filing a complaint about the judge is enabling her child's horrible character.

 

Judges are extremely limited in available consequences for juveniles if they want to use incarceration. In GA JC, the maximum available punishment is 90 days in Boot Camp. That covers every offense including Murder (when the offender is younger than 13 which unfortunately does occur). When you have a thuglet in front of you and you know the child will be coming back again and again, judges need to get creative to get the kid's attention. Locking a kid up for 90 days for cutting a child's hair is not proportional to any available punishment for the the kid who stabbed another, committed armed robbery, committed child molestation etc.

 

JC is a system in great need of reform because unfortunately the offenses being committed by juveniles are truly horrific. Their crimes are just as depraved as any adult felon. Sometimes they are even worse because kids have not matured enough to deal with their anger, rages and sexual impulses. They also have the "superman" complex where they believe nothing bad will ever happen to them so of course, they won't ever get caught. They lack the maturity to see the foreseeable results of their actions.

 

All of these stories lately make me glad I am a mean mom I am. I received a lot of flack when ds broke into the bottle depot. No one knew it was him, there was no witnesses, but I found out. I drove him right to the police, he returned every penny and I turned him in. The owner of the depot did not press charges because of it, but I would have supported any charges they pressed. The same with the firs 2 years ago, he did his community service with me by his side monitoring it and making sure he was getting it done. The police told me when I turned him in they never see that, that generally parents deny deny deny. When he did his community service for the fire there was 2 other boys involved, 1 never showed up, and 1 showed up late and dicked around the whole time. The fire department supervisor told me he was impressed with the amount of involvement I put into his hours. It's been 2 years without anymore fires or break ins, he knew he could not hide behind me. I will not bail my kids out of trouble, I will stand behind the cops charging them. When ds got caught trying to shop lift last year the store said he could not go back into the store until he wrote a letter of apology. I did not allow him to write that letter until last week. So for 1 year I made him walk over with us and stand outside waiting. I didn't care the weather I made him stand there and wait. He has now written his letter and has permission to go in again. The manager told me she has not seen a family maintain the punishment for so long, but I wanted it to really sink in.

 

I was called many many things by those that know us, told I was a bad mom, not protecting my kids blah blah blah because I turned him in like that. I was actually shocked when I heard that most parents the cops etc deal with do not do that. I want my kids to learn there is consequences for actions and if you do the crime you do the time kwim.

 

Congratulations for choosing the harder path of not bailing out your children. You are allowing them to understand the consequences of their behavior before they have utterly destroyed their future. You are allowing them the opportunity to "get it" so that they can become law-abiding adults. I think one of the reasons why our society is so messed up is that no one accepts responsibility for their conduct. Covering up for your child and "getting them off" does not serve their best interests in the long run. IMO.

[kitten18]

 

The judge deserves a medal and the complaining mom deserves a swift kick in the rear and to open her eyes to her own child's behavior. Why is she worried about her child's hair when it's obvious the problem is the brain underneath it?

:iagree: Her behavior was soooooo disturbing and the mom seems oblivious to that.

 

Juvenile Court is set up for exactly this type of case. The original intent behind JC was to get kids back on track before they became adults and the consequences became life-altering. Unfortunately Juvenile Court is handling cases that are true adult felonies: Aggravated Assault, Aggravated Battery, Vehicular Homicide, Burglary, Robbery etc. The available punishments in JC do not fit the heinous nature of many of the felonies that are being perpetrated by juveniles.

 

The goal of JC is the rehabilitation of the child and the court looks at the whole child, family circumstances etc. in deciding what is in the child's best interest. Punishment while often a factor, is not the purpose of JC, rehabilitation is the goal. (As opposed to Superior Court where an adult felon's sentence is determined by the facts of the case, prior criminal history and victim impact statements. Punishment is the focus and Rehabilitation, if any were to occur, would be an added bonus.)

 

 

 

 

I was a prosecutor in Juvenile Court for six months in an Atlanta Metro county. Six months was the average rotation because burn-out was so high. These "families" are so unbelievably messed up that it is demoralizing.

 

In GA, parents are required to be present for a delinquency hearing or the child has a guardian ad litem appointed for them. Often the state will be paying for a defense attorney and a guardian for the child because the parents can't be bothered to deal with their own children.

 

Within minutes of the parent speaking regarding the incidents for which the children were before the court it was glaringly obvious what was so screwed up in the home that would lead the child down this delinquent path. The deficiencies always fell into at least one of three categories: 1) Love; 2) Nurturing or 3) Discipline. Often it would be a combination of these three things.

 

It was so very rare to have a kid from a good home who just had a brain fart and gave into peer pressure to shoplift or break into a car etc. On average, we had 60 delinquent children four days a week. (The last day was reserved for trials.) We averaged about 1 good kid from a decent family a month. Due the math on that... 1 good family out of 960 losers! Usually they were well on their way with their chosen path of being life-long criminals. I recognized many 17-19 year old felons as kids I had prosecuted in JC. This is why it was so utterly draining. It sucked your soul dry.

 

 

 

.

That was extremely interesting. Thanks for posting.

[gardenmom5]

All of these stories lately make me glad I am a mean mom I am. I received a lot of flack when ds broke into the bottle depot. Maybe mom needed the same punishment as the girl.

 

you deserve an award for being such a "mean mom". You care enough to say no.

 

I agree the mom in this case also needed a haircut. I thought that as soon as I saw her hair was past her waist. aren't many adult women with hair that long that wear it down and "flowing".

[kolamum]

I would take clippers to dd's hair. It would have been buzzed off before going to court.

 

:iagree:

 

 

:iagree:

 

Except I think they should have let the 3 year give her a haircut. :w00t:

 

:lol:

 

 

 

What struck me when I read the article & watched the clip was the apparently lack of caring. The mom felt the child had been punished because she'd been grounded & she did expect some punishment but not a haircut. I'm pretty sure I would have been pretty happy for my kids to have a haircut & community service vs going into Juvie.

 

Because the focus is now on the parent complaining & of course the judge who can't & won't comment, it makes me wonder if the teen is yet sorry. She clearly wasn't at the court hearing because I think a heart change would have meant not blaming the 11 year old.

 

I'm equally curious where the parents of the older children were. Did you see the road they crossed? Not sure I would let my 11 year old cross it without me.