What do you think...Judge tells Mom to cut off girl's ponytail

[Aura]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557954/Judge-orders-Price-woman-to-cut-off-daughters-ponytail-in-court.html

 

Short version (though I highly recommend reading the whole article): 13-year-old girl and friend "endear" themselves to a 3-yr-old at McDonalds. Then, they go next door to the Dollar Store and buy a pair of scissors, return to McD's and cut off the 3-yr-old's hair.

 

In court, the judge offers to reduce the girl's sentence by over half if the Mom will cut off her ponytail there in court.

 

What do you think? Was it justice or not?

 

(Either way, I first wondered where the 3-yr-old's Mom was during the hair-cutting episode, and then the last statement in the article by the 13-yr-old's Mom: "I guess I should have went into the courtroom knowing my rights..." Um, YEAH! :glare:)

Edited June 23, 2012 by Aura

[*Michelle*]

At a May 28 hearing, Lopan entered admissions in the assault case, as well as another case stemming from eight months of phone calls she made to another teen in Colorado that included threats of rape and mutilation, according to an audio recording of the hearing provided to the Deseret News by Bruno.[/QUOTe]

:001_huh:

[Farrar]

I have mixed feelings. It's terrible that these kids did that and they obviously deserve to be punished, but why is this a court case in the first place? What a waste of government money that the parents couldn't deal with it themselves.

 

On the other hand, it's such an obvious and fitting punishment - it's the very definition of a logical consequence. And how pathetic that the mother said, "I never dreamt it would be that much of a punishment." It's a haircut! And with a mother who thinks that's too harsh for her bully of a kid just shows exactly why it ended up in court in the first place.

[LucyStoner]

If I am reading right, the girl was not only being sentenced for this but for harassment as well?

 

At a May 28 hearing, Lopan entered admissions in the assault case, as well as another case stemming from eight months of phone calls she made to another teen in Colorado that included threats of rape and mutilation,

 

And her mother thinks that this is the wrong way to teach a child right from wrong and the judge should be sanctioned? What pray-tell does the mother think she has done to teach her daughter right from wrong? 8 months of threatening rape on another child? The attractiveness of her daughter's hair should be the least of her concerns. She was sentenced to 300 hours of work crew and that was cut to 150 because the mother agreed to cut her hair. Her hair just saved her nearly 4 weeks of work? Cry me a river.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

[clarkacademy]

Well if it were my 3 year old she wouldn't have worried about court. I have a minor sister that would have beat the crap out of her.

[ssavings]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

 

:iagree:

[jennynd]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

 

:iagree: she need to know how it felt to be bullied

[Laurie4b]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557954/Judge-orders-Price-woman-to-cut-off-daughters-ponytail-in-court.html

 

(Either way, I first wondered where the 3-yr-old's Mom was during the hair-cutting episode, )

 

:iagree: The 3 year old was left alone with 2 strange girls? Or maybe it was one of those McD's with an indoor play area and the mother's attention was turned away for a minute or two? I'm having a hard time picturing how 2 girls cut a 3 year old's hair.

[Mimm]

I think it's weird to tell the mom to cut the girls hair but I'm distracted that a 13 year old girl did this. I'm very tired, so did I miss that this girl had some kind of developmental delay? I can't imagine a girl that age doing that!

[gardenmom5]

well, the 13 yo obviously has a "thing" about hair. I thought cutting it off would get her attention.

 

I'd also like to know what the 3yo's mom was doing all that time? hello? the teens went across the street and bought scissors after the McD's employees wouldn't lend them any. (which demonstrates how much thought they put into cutting the little one's hair.)

[mommymilkies]

well, the 13 yo obviously has a "thing" about hair. I thought cutting it off would get her attention.

 

I'd also like to know what the 3yo's mom was doing all that time? hello? the teens went across the street and bought scissors after the McD's employees wouldn't lend them any. (which demonstrates how much thought they put into cutting the little one's hair.)

 

:iagree:

[Kirch]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

 

:iagree:

[LucyStoner]

I think it's weird to tell the mom to cut the girls hair but I'm distracted that a 13 year old girl did this. I'm very tired, so did I miss that this girl had some kind of developmental delay? I can't imagine a girl that age doing that!

 

Well, we are talking about a girl that also confessed to 8 months of serious harassment of another girl, threatening her victim with violence and rape. Developmental delay or not, this girl has issues far beyond her hair.

[happymomofboys]

Had it been my child, there would have been no hair left to cut by the time we got to court. I would have had her apologizing and down at the salon to get her own hair bobbed off as soon as it happened. I think that the judge was taking the pattern of the girl's behavior into account with his sentencing. Getting a haircut in exchange for a lighter sentence was more than fair.

 

As far as where the mother was... it doesn't take long to cut off hair. If they had "befriended" the 3-year-old, the mother may have thought it was sweet that these two girls were playing with her little girl, especially if they were all in the playground area. It wouldn't take long inside the equipment for the girls to cut off a chunk of her hair.

Edited June 23, 2012 by happymomofboys

[LucyStoner]

I have mixed feelings. It's terrible that these kids did that and they obviously deserve to be punished, but why is this a court case in the first place? What a waste of government money that the parents couldn't deal with it themselves.

 

It sounds like the main thing she was being sentenced on was the other, more serious phone harassment thing. Not just a case of assault with scissors.

[gardenmom5]

I think it's weird to tell the mom to cut the girls hair but I'm distracted that a 13 year old girl did this. I'm very tired, so did I miss that this girl had some kind of developmental delay? I can't imagine a girl that age doing that!

 

no dev delay. some girls are just juvenille twerps that need a reality check. I grew up with a girl that age who loved to make crank phone calls (no internet then - 70's) and pretend to be a woman calling for another woman's husband. she thought it was funny. she's also called and made those types of (empty) threats over the phone about hurting someone.

 

I have also received phone calls from girls that age calling for "my son". It was actually quite entertaining to hear their voices deflat when I asked them if they were 14. I realized in hindsight I should have asked them if they were 12.

 

Had it been my child, there would have been no hair left to cut by the time we got to court. I would have had her apologizing and down at the salon to get her own hair bobbed off as soon as it happened.

if you were the mother, I doubt your daughter would have done such a thing because you *wouldn't* have tolerated it. the mother isn't nearly as outraged by her child's behavior as she should be.

 

 

As far as where the mother was... it doesn't take long to cut off hair..

the older girls went across the street and bought scissors - they didn't already have them on them. that does take time. Edited June 23, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Harriet Vane]

Horrified by the whole thing.

 

With this teen's history, I think the 3yo had a narrow escape. It is terrible that they cut her hair, and thank God they didn't do anything worse.

 

I am appalled at a mother who is that unaware of her small child that something like this could happen. She's lucky it wasn't much worse.

 

The mother of the teen is awful. Just awful.

 

I think the punishment should have been harsher. It's hard though, because juvenile detention is not an effective learning environment. However, her mother is obviously not providing effective character training either.

[happymomofboys]

the older girls went across the street and bought scissors - they didn't already have them on them. that does take time.

 

Yes, but the mother didn't know what they were planning to do! If two girls were playing on the playground, then left for a few minutes and came back, the mother probably didn't think anything of it. Her job is to watch her daughter, not pay attention to what these other girls were doing or where they were going.

 

I'm sure the mom will be much more vigilant in the future, but it doesn't sound to me like she wasn't present or watching her child. Once the girls returned and entered the playground area, it would not have taken more than a few seconds in a tunnel or other hidden space to cut the girl's hair.

[kolamum]

There's a video with pictures of both girls hair now here.

 

There's a whole lot of things about the entire incident that don't make sense. Like why a completely normal 13 year old would feel it her place to snip anyones hair, much less a 3 year olds. Or what HER mother was doing that she didn't notice this child inquire about the scissors or suddenly walk across a road to buy more. And if the 13 year old's mother wasn't there, shame on her. With the previous history she had clearly she needed a bit more parental interaction because alone she was certainly causing a lot of trouble.

 

I think the punishment was quite fitting in regards to natural consiquence. If hair is such a big deal to her, especially her own long curly hair, then whack it off. The mother of the 13 year old felt it was wrong the child had all ready been punished by being grounded. Um.. what?! Not quite sure why the 11 year old got to go to a salon, seems to me she should have been equally humiliated for her part in the situation.

 

While they might not have set out to be naughty they clearly thought their actions through to some degree considering they asked for scissors & when given none went & purchased some. I find that a bit scary. It also makes me wonder what would have happened had the 3 year old told them not to do it or had tried to push them away. Kwim?

 

And, while I agree about my curiosity being over where the 3 year old's mum was, there's no telling how many other children she might have had with her. There's also the variable that when our children climb up into play equipment we look for them in the windows or wait to see them pop out the slide. They did a total hack job on this little girl. Betting it took them about 5 seconds or so. Not enough time for them to be missing to cause panic or worry. My guess is they probably lured her up into the play area out of sight & whacked the hair. I seriously doubt they did it in plain view.

 

Glad my child wasn't involved in any way in it though. And I do agree that I suspect the excess punishment was due to the other charges. I think he reduced the time based on what he would have given her had she not had her hair cut off. Perhaps he only chose to publicly punish & humiliate her because she was the eldest in the situation & should have had the most common sense to say, "This is wrong. We shouldn't do it."

 

Gotta say though, that both articles leave me with more questions then answers!

[LoriK]

They could have been climbing up in the tubes and the mother couldn't hear the conversation they were having. At those playparks, adults aren't allowed up on the equipment. I make my kids leave if big kids show up because I always think a big kid could hurt or even try to molest one of my kids up in those hidden nooks or crannies.

[melissad2]

I have no words...I cannot believe that kids can be so mean and their parents tolerate it!

[Mom0012]

I think the whole thing is horrible, but that the punishment is fitting.

 

Lisa

[Soror]

If it was such a horrible thing she should have said no. Obviously she thought the community service was worse though. She is the one who made the choice.

[Word Nerd]

The punishment doesn't sound harsh to me--and the mother opted to take it. Instead of coming across as a brave mother fighting to right an injustice, she comes across as a clueless enabler.

[mommytobees]

The punishment fit the crime. Sorry girl. You need to think before you act.

 

Honestly, I think the hair cutting will make a bigger impact than the work hours. If my dd ever did that to a little girl I would be happy with that part of the sentence.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

I have mixed feelings. It's terrible that these kids did that and they obviously deserve to be punished, but why is this a court case in the first place? What a waste of government money that the parents couldn't deal with it themselves.

 

On the other hand, it's such an obvious and fitting punishment - it's the very definition of a logical consequence. And how pathetic that the mother said, "I never dreamt it would be that much of a punishment." It's a haircut! And with a mother who thinks that's too harsh for her bully of a kid just shows exactly why it ended up in court in the first place.

 

I would take this to court.

 

IF!

 

The other mother didn't find a suitable punishment for her daughter that satisfied ME.

 

This was assault.

 

Kris

[Parrothead]

Unfortunately I think the judge just fed into the mother's ego and the teen's sociopathic behavior. Instead of punishment both the mom and the kid got even more attention. And they will be able to "dine off the story" for months.

 

He should have just set the community service and be done with it.

[SorrelZG]

An aside question, Are 13yos allowed in McD playgrounds? It's been a while since I tried to get into one so I don't recall.

[Guest submarines]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557954/Judge-orders-Price-woman-to-cut-off-daughters-ponytail-in-court.html

 

Short version (though I highly recommend reading the whole article): 13-year-old girl and friend "endear" themselves to a 3-yr-old at McDonalds. Then, they go next door to the Dollar Store and buy a pair of scissors, return to McD's and cut off the 3-yr-old's hair.

 

In court, the judge offers to reduce the girl's sentence by over half if the Mom will cut off her ponytail there in court.

 

What do you think? Was it justice or not?

 

(Either way, I first wondered where the 3-yr-old's Mom was during the hair-cutting episode, and then the last statement in the article by the 13-yr-old's Mom: "I guess I should have went into the courtroom knowing my rights..." Um, YEAH! :glare:)

 

That's exactly the root of the problem (the bolded part.) DH and I were discussing the bus monitor bullying last night, and I wondered out loud whether this kind of behaviour meant that they had uninvolved (or worse) parents, or whether they could've been from "nice" families (speaking broadly here.)

 

DH, who has experience with juvenile court, said that it is extremely rare, almost unheard of, that a parent is present during a hearing, even if parents are called (not sure if required) to attend every court procedure for a minor.

 

Now, can you imagine not attending your child's court appearance? Now imagine what kind of people would not attend it, and what kind of upbringing these children are having. It is sad and terrifying, really.

[Word Nerd]

An aside question, Are 13yos allowed in McD playgrounds? It's been a while since I tried to get into one so I don't recall.

 

FWIW, the story didn't say anything about the McD's playground. It's just been assumed in this thread that's where the incident happened. It's reasonable, but it's still an assumption that may not be correct.

[SorrelZG]

FWIW, the story didn't say anything about the McD's playground. It's just been assumed in this thread that's where the incident happened. It's reasonable, but it's still an assumption that may not be correct.

Yeah, I was getting that it was presumed, it just got me thinking that as a mother of a three year old, if we were in the playground, my flags would have already been up regardless of how nice they seemed. As a possible explanation, it's not working for me.

[kitten18]

I thought it was a fair punishment and fit the crime. The mother had a choice. She could have said no and taken the other sentence. Once I read of the girl's previous bullying behavior my opinion changed a bit - I think she got off too easily.

:iagree:

 

As far as where the mother was... it doesn't take long to cut off hair. If they had "befriended" the 3-year-old, the mother may have thought it was sweet that these two girls were playing with her little girl, especially if they were all in the playground area. It wouldn't take long inside the equipment for the girls to cut off a chunk of her hair.

 

Yes, but the mother didn't know what they were planning to do! If two girls were playing on the playground, then left for a few minutes and came back, the mother probably didn't think anything of it. Her job is to watch her daughter, not pay attention to what these other girls were doing or where they were going.

 

I'm sure the mom will be much more vigilant in the future, but it doesn't sound to me like she wasn't present or watching her child. Once the girls returned and entered the playground area, it would not have taken more than a few seconds in a tunnel or other hidden space to cut the girl's hair.

:iagree:

[kitten18]

FWIW, the story didn't say anything about the McD's playground. It's just been assumed in this thread that's where the incident happened. It's reasonable, but it's still an assumption that may not be correct.

In the video it said they were playing in the Playplace.

[Juniper]

FWIW, the story didn't say anything about the McD's playground. It's just been assumed in this thread that's where the incident happened. It's reasonable, but it's still an assumption that may not be correct.

 

From the mother, in the comments section of the article,

 

Victims Mother

Price, UT

I was not present when this incident occurred. My children were with their grandfather where, like on many occasions, he likes to take them for dinner and play. He was present in the restaurant when the incident took place, and if any of you have children who play in a play area like these, there are several "hiding" places involved that make it impossible to see everything all the time. To set the record straight my daughter DID NOT leave with the girls when they went across the street to buy scissors (some people are under that impression for some reason). No, I was not texting. My daughter was the victim, not because she was left unsupervised, but because 2 older girls who were strangers to her for whatever reason decided to take a pair of scissors to my daughter's hair maliciously, even kept it for a while as a trophy. In going to the police I only wanted an apology, to know why, and a hope consequences for their actions. Thank you Judge Johansen, their punishment was sweet vindication for me, considering I got to miss out on my daughter's first hair cut.

[Aura]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought the punishment was not overboard.

 

And yeah, I thought that the 13yo's Mom didn't seem very "with it." If she thought her dd was guilty, wouldn't a concerned mom see to it that she was properly punished so this kind of behavior is stopped? If she thought her dd was innocent, wouldn't a concerned mom do what was necessary to defend her dd?

 

As for the 3yo's Mom, I think she was lulled into a false sense of security because she was somewhere she thought was safe. Unfortuneately, playplaces of any kind are often NOT safe. Hard lesson learned, but I'm glad it wasn't worse.

[Iucounu]

Let me get this straight-- the judge imposed a sentence that the woman doesn't contest, then offered a measure of leniency that she accepted, and now she's complaining?

 

Too bad she won't be forced to pay for wasting public resources with her BS complaint.

[Impish]

The mother obviously isn't doing her job in teaching her kid right from wrong, so where she gets off on commenting on the judge's efforts is beyond me.

 

Sad part is, you *know* the focus is now on the big, bad judge, rather than what the teen had done wrong.

[Word Nerd]

In the video it said they were playing in the Playplace.

 

Ah.

[amsunshine]

From the mother, in the comments section of the article,

 

Victims Mother

Price, UT

I was not present when this incident occurred. My children were with their grandfather where, like on many occasions, he likes to take them for dinner and play. He was present in the restaurant when the incident took place, and if any of you have children who play in a play area like these, there are several "hiding" places involved that make it impossible to see everything all the time. To set the record straight my daughter DID NOT leave with the girls when they went across the street to buy scissors (some people are under that impression for some reason). No, I was not texting. My daughter was the victim, not because she was left unsupervised, but because 2 older girls who were strangers to her for whatever reason decided to take a pair of scissors to my daughter's hair maliciously, even kept it for a while as a trophy. In going to the police I only wanted an apology, to know why, and a hope consequences for their actions. Thank you Judge Johansen, their punishment was sweet vindication for me, considering I got to miss out on my daughter's first hair cut.

 

This explains a lot. Thanks for this.

[Trish]

In a few years she'll be cutting the school bus monitor's hair.

[love2travel]

They could have been climbing up in the tubes and the mother couldn't hear the conversation they were having. At those playparks, adults aren't allowed up on the equipment. I make my kids leave if big kids show up because I always think a big kid could hurt or even try to molest one of my kids up in those hidden nooks or crannies.

 

We also leave if older kids (teens) start playing. I haven't found a better solution. Although sometimes it is difficult to determine age. My soon-to-be 12 year old has absolutely no interest in a fast food playground.

[Kirch]

An aside question, Are 13yos allowed in McD playgrounds? It's been a while since I tried to get into one so I don't recall.

 

Usually not allowed, but I've never seen the age/height limit enforced at any indoor play area.

[jujsky]

At least she had a choice -- whether to complete all of her community service or have her hair cut off. The little 3 year-old didn't have a choice. Seems fitting to me. The only thing I would have changed up if I was the judge was to let the victim's mother do the hair cutting.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I would take clippers to dd's hair. It would have been buzzed off before going to court.

 

I think its crazy that the teens mother is comparing it to punching/hitting!

[Iucounu]

At least she had a choice -- whether to complete all of her community service or have her hair cut off. The little 3 year-old didn't have a choice. Seems fitting to me. The only thing I would have changed up if I was the judge was to let the victim's mother do the hair cutting.

... or the hair shaving. A girl can look ordinary with short hair.

 

I would take clippers to dd's hair. It would have been buzzed off before going to court.

I agree.

[justamouse]

I have mixed feelings. It's terrible that these kids did that and they obviously deserve to be punished, but why is this a court case in the first place? What a waste of government money that the parents couldn't deal with it themselves.

 

On the other hand, it's such an obvious and fitting punishment - it's the very definition of a logical consequence. And how pathetic that the mother said, "I never dreamt it would be that much of a punishment." It's a haircut! And with a mother who thinks that's too harsh for her bully of a kid just shows exactly why it ended up in court in the first place.

 

:iagree:

[nmoira]

Sheesh. She could have chosen to perform the full amount community service if her hair meant that much to her. Would the mother have thought she'd had grounds for complaint if her daughter was sentenced was handed down without the possibility of a "deal"? Not likely. :001_rolleyes:

[thefragile7393]

Works for me. I am rather tired of bullies not getting any consequences...adult or child.

[swellmomma]

An aside question, Are 13yos allowed in McD playgrounds? It's been a while since I tried to get into one so I don't recall.

 

Technically not, but my 12 and 13 yr olds do with their little siblings. They know that the park is pretty much for the little kids so they are careful and let them have run of the place, but they still like to climb through and play too. I know they are not doing bad things to kids, and often the parents there have been pleased my kids were there because they tend to get the 7-10 yr old boys playing hide-n-seek, or crawl tag etc, which from what we have been told has made the playpark more enjoyable with less squabling. I like having them in there because they can go through and help my 4 yr old etc where as I can't.

 

As to the OP, I don't think my dd would have made it to court with a long ponytail, I would have likely cut it off as soon as I heard what she had done. How sick to groom and then target that little one like that.