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Respect nowdays for being a conservative "old fashioned" woman?


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Floose office wear I've had to witness- Ill fitting, thong showing, club type outfits that are desperado and unprofessional.

 

Nothing to do with heels :lol:

 

I simply referred to this attire as the opposite of what I wear during the day.

 

Nothing to do with the entire population of women that work in offices on the planet. :lol:

 

You guys have active imaginations though. :)

 

Um, my imagination has nothing to do with this.

 

a. I have no way of knowing exactly what kind of "office wear" you've witnessed.

b. You stated that those who work dress like "floozies" and that we are harming our children by doing so.

c. You stated you were proud of yourself and your "non-judgemental" attitudes.

 

I see your comments as extremely judgmental, offensive and hypocritical.

 

astrid

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:D Okay. Am I the only one in Birkenstocks? I would fall off the heels and break my ankle. Kudos to those who have learned to walk in them. I sure hope that nobody here is indicating that those who do know how to walk in heels are floozies.

 

Nope, I am from the Birks crowd. Couldn't walk in heels if my life depended on it.

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for the choices you have made. I wonder if you are accurate in your imaginings about what people are thinking about you based on how they "look" at you. I suspect that you are making assumptions that are not necessarily true. In any case, I try to live free of excess concern for what others think of me. It's good be feel so proud of yourself, I guess, in one way, but it's a short road from there to being just prideful, kwim?

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I dunno. That's definitely below the knee. :tongue_smilie:

]

 

IKR! And no ankles or elbows exposed! And if you're going to a hookah lounge you've GOT to expect a sequin or two . .

 

KungFuPanda will likely chicken out and pull these soon :-D

Edited by KungFuPanda
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I wonder if the poster you referenced is saying that she is glad to be able to do all of those things as a SAHM because she knows that *she* would not be able to do them all if she worked.

 

For myself, I agree with you about the value of so many working moms. A couple pediatricians come to mind immediately. I admire them greatly. But I know my personality and limitations and I would not be able to do what they do and be a good mom. I fully believe *they* are good moms and I also believe that it is because they are moms that they are my favorite doctors for my kids.

 

If something happened that forced you to return to work, kicking and screaming against your will, then I am confident that you would continue to be as good a mom as you are now.

 

ETA: and I just wanted to add that this is the exact same thing as the wide eyed comments about "Gosh, I'm glad it works for you, but I could never homeschool!" that people on this board so frequently (and, IMO, with good reason) complain about.

Edited by momma2three
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I agree.

The truth of the matter is that no one, not one of us here, knows what the future has in store for us. As secure as we think our lives are, and happy as we may be in our present situation, one never knows whether something might happen that would necessitate a return to (or entry into) the workforce.

 

I learned long ago-- never say never.

 

astrid

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I have always wondered what kind offices the Victoria Secret models wearing suits work in, but I figured it didn't impact my choices, so I didn't care.

 

I went over to the VS page to see if they were still what I remembered from when I ordered fancy stuff from their catalog, and OH, YEAH!

 

http://www.victoriassecret.com/clothing/suiting

 

I've truly never encountered any of the negative SAHM treatments that some people complain about it. But I'm only friends with other homeschooling SAHMs, sooo... ;)

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... even though I think she could have worded it better probably. I'm not really referring to "work attire" (although I am sure that could be included). My daughter and I do get some weird looks from other females now days just because we are actually wearing clothes. It seems to be the norm for females to wear as little as possible without getting arrested. To me it is bad enough that young females do this, but it also applies to much older women and some are rather scary looking. I think there are things God didn't intend the entire world to see.

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I think there are things God didn't intend the entire world to see.

 

I do, too. But I also don't think I get to sit in judgment of others, and I think that's what rubs some people the wrong way.

 

Most office workers I know dress reasonably well. I see weirder looking women out shopping during the day. (Hello, tube top + bright red bra straps! You're looking ready for the day!)

 

The world is a funny place. I just try not to be bewildered but to get on with my life.

 

(I did get some "hard stares" once on here when I said something idiotic about Christian homeschooling ladies' hairstyles, though, so I may just be trying to redeem myself.)

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treestarfae: When I go out I notice people treat me as an oddity sometimes for not being the modern norm. When I say how long I haven't worked there's crickets.

 

I get this.

 

The downward looks at my casual homeschooling clothes opposed to floosy office wear. The jeering in-laws about how I live in the 50's. I used to be one of these people judging the fray. I'm so glad I've changed. I'm so proud of myself.

In some ways I feel women are being taken advantage of even more now and it shows with how they treat themselves, their children and others

 

But I have to admit that this sounds very judgmental of the women who work, not all of whom are working for frivolous extras. Some have been abandoned by spouses. Some are widows. Most are doing the very best they can with the knowledge they currently have. Some put us long time stay-at-home Moms to shame with all they manage to do.

 

It sounds as if you are simply judging from the other side now, though perhaps you didn't intend this at all. Have not read the thread yet.

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The floosy office wear is for the people that are actually looking at me as if I should be wearing the same thing. I see alot of them where I'm at and yes they do look at me that way. As for the rest, your decision for working is your choice and I would hope you're happy with it. My point is I'm ok with who I am and there's people who think it's out of the norm.

Floozy. And I haven't heard that term since the 1960s when I heard my elders discussing this, usually in the context of some young "hussy" trying to snare some married man.

 

Most middle aged Moms, which a lot of us are (though I realize we have some young'uns here too) are not dressing in a provocative manner. Not now (unless they are on Real Housewives somewhere).

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Wow. I left for a while this afternoon so I had to read the whole thread in one sitting. :D

 

Side note: Does anyone remember the "My sister dresses like a FLOOZY" commercial from several years back? That's what's been going through my head this whole time...

 

Anyway...

 

OP, there are people out there who look down on conservatively styled women, or on those who don't always look runway-ready. I'd love to be one of those women who is always put together well, but it's just not at the top of my priority list. I like to think I look presentable, though. I do think your choice of words set a poor tone, and I agree with someone who said you'd probably have gotten a bit more understanding had you taken a different approach. That said, I am sorry you feel looked-down upon and it's hard to feel judged, especially for superficial matters.

 

As for me, I don't wear heels. I am about 5'4", so exactly average, or so I'm told. I'm a jeans, sweater, and loafers girl at heart... apparently I never lost that "preppie" thing from years gone by. :D In summer, I trade out for capris, t-shirts, and sandals. I'm pretty simple in this regard.

 

Besides, I'd rather spend my money on books... ;)

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I wanted to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that she could not have meant that the way she said it.

 

Then the evil working-mom in me said, "how else are we gonna get our raises if we don't flirt with the boss? Coffee, tea, or me, honey?"

 

It's funny, because I just clicked over here from two sites that had articles about "mommy guilt" and I was thinking, I don't feel one ounce of mommy guilt. Honest. Not because I do everything better than everyone else, but because my kids get what they need from me.

 

My work wardrobe (before and after kids): if I have to go to the office, Dockers, flat shoes, and whatever top I can get away with wearing braless. (I only wear high necklines regardless.) Or if I have an important meeting, a suit with a skirt that goes below my knee, and 1" heels. Most of the time I work at home, so my work attire is jammy pants and yesterday's T-shirt. (I shower at 6pm before collecting my neglected kids. I do wear jeans when I leave the house.) I've never worn make-up or jewelry and I get my hair cut at Best Cuts / Great Clips.

 

I'm sure OP didn't mean to say I'm a floozy, but I think she did mean to imply that my kids are suffering for my working. I honestly wonder why women seem to think they can guess how well others' kids are doing without having ever met them. The only logical explanation is that there is some defensiveness on the part of those who think this.

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I get this.

 

And I get crickets when I am introduced as a homeschooler and they find out I work full time as well. Granted these were non-homeschooling Stepford Wives with children in 20K preschool, etc, but what I heard clicking through the silence is: what a loser for not finding a man to do that work stuff.

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I'm sure OP didn't mean to say I'm a floozy, but I think she did mean to imply that my kids are suffering for my working. I honestly wonder why women seem to think they can guess how well others' kids are doing without having ever met them. The only logical explanation is that there is some defensiveness on the part of those who think this.

 

I got this impression too. When I worked full time, my children were still loved and cared for. They weren't hurt by my working. Our daily life was different but fine. Sometimes more chaotic than now but not by much. Do I like being home more? Right now, yes, but that's just what works best for OUR family right now.

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And I get crickets when I am introduced as a homeschooler and they find out I work full time as well. Granted these were non-homeschooling Stepford Wives with children in 20K preschool, etc, but what I heard clicking through the silence is: what a loser for not finding a man to do that work stuff.

 

Are you sure? Maybe they are thinking, "****, I wish I were awesome enough to be a doctor."

 

This is reminding me of my road rage issues. To help with my road rage issues, I started telling myself that people who cut me off in traffic had explosive diarrhea instead of thinking what jerks they are.

 

I think this is a projection/mindset issue. Next time any of us hear crickets, we should think, "I know, I am awesome, you can't believe it."

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And I get crickets when I am introduced as a homeschooler and they find out I work full time as well. Granted these were non-homeschooling Stepford Wives with children in 20K preschool, etc, but what I heard clicking through the silence is: what a loser for not finding a man to do that work stuff.

 

I dunno. When you decide what other people are thinking it's always about you and your own ideas and has nothing to do with what's actually going on in someone else's head.

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Are you sure? Maybe they are thinking, "****, I wish I were awesome enough to be a doctor."

 

This is reminding me of my road rage issues. To help with my road rage issues, I started telling myself that people who cut me off in traffic had explosive diarrhea instead of thinking what jerks they are.

 

I think this is a projection/mindset issue. Next time any of us hear crickets, we should think, "I know, I am awesome, you can't believe it."

 

IMO, she might be right. Medicine is still a pretty male dominated field. There are women doctors in DH's practice but they pull less weight, because everyone gets that IRL, there are some things the MOM just has to do. Even my DH, who really is pretty enlightened for a guy has occassionally slipped in his thinking. Thank goodness for marble rolling pins so I can fix that... :glare:

 

Now those of us who watch moms do doctoring/nursing too are in total AWE. I think you're just the bee's kness, Kalanamak! Your life would KILL my DH in about 2 1/3 days. :lol::lol:

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So, OP, how did you mean the term "floosy"? Did you mean s*utty?

 

The reason I ask: Where I live, floosy and floozy do not mean the same thing. A floozy is a cheap/easy woman. Floosy, however, just means fancy or dressed up. A woman at church might tell another "Look at you, in that floosy dress. You look so nice." I always assumed it derived from floozy, but with a kinder spin. I wouldn't be upset if someone described me as floosy, but if they called me A FLOOZY, then I'd be hacked. The difference is fancy = S sound, ho = Z sound ;)

 

So, could it just be being taken in a manner it wasn't intended.

 

ETA - If my area is the only one that differentiates between floosy and floozy, perhaps that says something about the area in which I live (or the residents?) LOL

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Are you sure? Maybe they are thinking, "****, I wish I were awesome enough to be a doctor."

 

 

1) they didn't know I was a doc

2) they immediately turned back to discussing their Volvos, trips to Mexican resorts, and the lastest tappas bar in town.

 

I suspect they would have thought me frumpy and infra-dig no matter, but the working AND homeschooling was the end of any attempts they made to be polite. I wasn't PLU (people like us).

 

I have had other Stepford Wife encounters where I've been told it is *wrong* of me to support a home daddy, because men are such horrible asses, they should be shoved out the door every morning and made to PAY for their assedness. As with doctors, the government, etc, spouses can be seen as those we put our hopes on in troubled times, and our dogs on in good times. :) To paraphrase Ambrose Bierce.

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Your life would KILL my DH in about 2 1/3 days. :lol::lol:

 

 

It is amazing what you can get used to. There is a joke that after 2 weeks of med school "no one can quit because they've put so much into it already." Or, as a friend said: med school is interesting the first 12 hours of every day. It is last 6 that are bad.

 

I think my figures are 20 years old, but I read that the average male doc works 50 hours a week, and female 45 (which is about what I do). And yes, I took a big pay cut to work decent hours so I could homeschool, but I still earn enough, IMO. Priorities: I don't need that BMW SUV or the 1.2 M house with a view. I would actually feel vulnerable (robbery), decadent, and "uppity" to have them. Lucky me!

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IMO, she might be right.

 

But, my point is: does it matter? I think all we really need to do is change *our* thinking. Thinking, "yes, I really am that awesome, I know, you are speechless" helps, even if that's *not* what they are thinking. KWIM? Maybe that's just my ENTP showing.

 

1) they didn't know I was a doc

2) they immediately turned back to discussing their Volvos, trips to Mexican resorts, and the lastest tappas bar in town.

 

I suspect they would have thought me frumpy and infra-dig no matter, but the working AND homeschooling was the end of any attempts they made to be polite. I wasn't PLU (people like us).

 

I have had other Stepford Wife encounters where I've been told it is *wrong* of me to support a home daddy, because men are such horrible asses, they should be shoved out the door every morning and made to PAY for their assedness. As with doctors, the government, etc, spouses can be seen as those we put our hopes on in troubled times, and our dogs on in good times. :) To paraphrase Ambrose Bierce.

 

Well, if I had an a$$ for a dh, then I'd feel the same way. I can't blame them, poor things. See? Just a change in thinking, lol. :lol:

 

It is amazing what you can get used to. There is a joke that after 2 weeks of med school "no one can quit because they've put so much into it already." Or, as a friend said: med school is interesting the first 12 hours of every day. It is last 6 that are bad.

 

Hm, sounds like the military, lol.

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This thread has really made me reconsider my office wear. Lately, the warm weather has seduced me into wearing some pretty racy stuff, like polo shirts and capri shorts.

 

Yeah, I know what you all are thinking. It's true, too. When I bend over, you can totally almost see the tops of my calves.

 

More importantly, this thread is making me think about what my dh wears, since he is a SAHD and does the majority of ds' homeschooling.

 

Gone are the days when he would wear his floozy kilt to the office; he's had to put all his high heeled boots away, too (even the sequined ones).

 

I had thought that his unkempt long hair, and tendency to wear jean overalls everywhere was a sign of depression. Now, I realize it's just his new conservative look, in keeping with his non-working status.

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Gone are the days when he would wear his floozy kilt to the office; he's had to put all his high heeled boots away, too (even the sequined ones).

 

I had thought that his unkempt long hair, and tendency to wear jean overalls everywhere was a sign of depression. Now, I realize it's just his new conservative look, in keeping with his non-working status.

Perhaps, but it's still a sad day when a man takes off his sequins for the last time. Does he sometimes feel judged or singled out by other men?
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So, OP, how did you mean the term "floosy"? Did you mean s*utty?

 

The reason I ask: Where I live, floosy and floozy do not mean the same thing. A floozy is a cheap/easy woman. Floosy, however, just means fancy or dressed up. A woman at church might tell another "Look at you, in that floosy dress. You look so nice." I always assumed it derived from floozy, but with a kinder spin. I wouldn't be upset if someone described me as floosy, but if they called me A FLOOZY, then I'd be hacked. The difference is fancy = S sound, ho = Z sound ;)

 

So, could it just be being taken in a manner it wasn't intended.

 

ETA - If my area is the only one that differentiates between floosy and floozy, perhaps that says something about the area in which I live (or the residents?) LOL

 

I have never, ever heard any other meaning for the word "floosy" (or the alternate spelling of "floozy") other than a noun to mean a whore/slut/harlot. As an adjective, it describes same. Coupled with the OP's denigration of working mothers harming their children, I feel pretty justified in taking offense.

 

astrid

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Mrs Mungo: Are you sure? Maybe they are thinking, "****, I wish I were awesome enough to be a doctor."

 

This is reminding me of my road rage issues. To help with my road rage issues, I started telling myself that people who cut me off in traffic had explosive diarrhea instead of thinking what jerks they are.

 

 

Lol. :lol:

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Well, no... not quite. As low as she sunk, she can't possibly reach up high enough to smack down the 6' of floozy office mom and miscellaneous fabulousness that is me. :D

 

ETA: 6'5" in my best high-whore heels. ;)

I bet you have some of the hottest heels.

 

Best I can get is 6'1" in my 5-inchers.

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I didn't read the OP's post anywhere near as negatively as most people seem to. I kind of get what she meant. I enjoy not having to dress up smartly and worry about what I look like, to have to put on a 'front' for work. I also agree with the first half of her statement on working women:

 

In some ways I feel women are being taken advantage of even more now and it shows with how they treat themselves, their children and others.

 

While I have a number of friends who love work, who would hate to have to stay at home, and are much better mothers because they have a balance in their life that it is important to them, I also know far more women who go out to work because they have to, who would love to stay at home and be full-time mothers and homemakers. I have not seen that they treat themselves or anyone else worse for having to work when they'd rather not. But, I do wonder whether the lives these women lead is in any way better than the lives their mothers and grandmothers led. It seems that for many (not all) they're still expected to perform all the traditional duties of mother and homemaker, while also going out and earning at least half of the household's income. Oh, and they've got to look 'floosy' too ;).

 

Cassy

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I have never, ever heard any other meaning for the word "floosy" (or the alternate spelling of "floozy") other than a noun to mean a whore/slut/harlot.

astrid

 

Is "floosy" British? Because it does not show up as an alternative spelling to floozy in any mainline dictionary that I have. Just curious. I like to learn new words.

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Floozy. And I haven't heard that term since the 1960s when I heard my elders discussing this, usually in the context of some young "hussy" trying to snare some married man.

 

Most middle aged Moms, which a lot of us are (though I realize we have some young'uns here too) are not dressing in a provocative manner. Not now (unless they are on Real Housewives somewhere).

At least when the kids aren't around. ;):D

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I'm British, and I've never heard of it. I must say, it doesn't sound bad to me, though, but then 'floozy' doesn't sound that bad either, sort of comical, the kind of word I'd used to gently tease a friend who might be wearing something a bit risque.

 

Cassy

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Is "floosy" British? Because it does not show up as an alternative spelling to floozy in any mainline dictionary that I have. Just curious. I like to learn new words.
It's an American word.

 

Here's the entry from The Shorter Oxford:

floozie /ˈflu:zi/ noun. colloq. Also -sie, -zy. E20.

[ORIGIN Origin uncertain: perh. rel. to flossy adjective.]

A girl or woman, esp. one of disreputable character.

 

 

And The Cassell's Dictionary of Slang:

floozie n. (also floosie, flooze, floozy, flusie, fluzie, he-fluesy)

[20C+] (orig. US) a promiscuous young woman; also of homosexual men. [dial. floosy, flossy, thus soft; note Irish Floozie in the Jacuzzi, the monument in O'Connell Street, Dublin, representing the spirit of the River Liffey]

 

floozie adj. [1920s+] 1. (US) showy, stylish. 2. (US) overdressed, over-made-up. 3. (US) silly or light-headed. 4. (US Und.) immoral, corrupt, dissipated. 5. (US campus) (also floozy) sexy.

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And also from Cassell's:

 

floozie up v. [1910's+] (US) to embellish, either of one's own appearance or by adding decoration to a garment.

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The jeering in-laws about how I live in the 50's. I used to be one of these people judging the fray. I'm so glad I've changed. I'm so proud of myself.

In some ways I feel women are being taken advantage of even more now and it shows with how they treat themselves, their children and others.

 

The 50's SAHM...

 

50s-housewife-all-mod-cons.jpg

 

This is image that always comes to mind, when talk of the 50's SAHM is tossed about. My grandmother was always dressed to the 9's (hair, nails, etc). Much more so than most of my working floozy friends.

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IBut, I do wonder whether the lives these women lead is in any way better than the lives their mothers and grandmothers led. It seems that for many (not all) they're still expected to perform all the traditional duties of mother and homemaker, while also going out and earning at least half of the household's income. Oh, and they've got to look 'floosy' too ;).

 

Cassy

 

Can't speak for other women, but my one grandmother owned and ran her own printing business. Her husband was a workaholic man who got violent when he drank too much. The other was a "traditional" SAHM, whose dh was a horrible, horrible man who abused his three daughters (I won't be more specific--but it was criminal).

 

Of the two of them, one separated from her husband and was able to provide just fine for herself and her five kids and grandkids. She was and is the matriarch of the family.

 

My other grandmother had no education, no job, no recourse. Because such a thing as her husband was doing to her kids was just not talked about during that time (it was the iconic 50's, nothing bad ever happened then, right?), she was deeply afraid and too ashamed to get help. Also, she was brain-washed by religion to believe she was supposed to be submissive to him, no matter what. She died in her early sixties from kidney cancer, and she never left that man. Her adult children are all still damaged from what happened, a good deal of it because their mother couldn't and wouldn't take steps to protect them.

 

So, do I think I'm better off than my grandmothers, despite the fact I have to work to support my family?

 

Well, I'm certainly better off than one of them. The other is a source of inspiration and strength, and a model for me. I have stated before in other threads that the whole SAHM vs. WOHM debate is a false dichotomy in many ways. It's not an "either/or" situation. I taught my ds when I was a SAHM and cleaned and cooked, and I do those things now, although in a more supportive role to my dh who is a SAHD. IMO, the family as a whole has needs, and to meet these needs is a family (read: team) effort.

 

Sometimes the family income has been solely produced by my dh, sometimes it has been brought in by both of us, and now, I'm bringing it in. Meals have to be cooked, dishes have to be washed, clothes washed and folded, bills paid. These are all just jobs, part of everyday living for our family, and they are shared by all of us. I don't understand the whole "That is your job/This is my job" way of thinking. Responsibilities are fluid; sometimes this thing falls to me, other times it falls to dh, depending on the circumstances.

 

This is a far more efficient, and dare I say, fair way of distributing the work of raising a family, than rigid roles that do not respect changing conditions that life throws at you.

 

This theory of work distribution is not new. Farm families have known it for centuries. Husbands and wives were a team effort in farm work. Most women throughout history have had to work, whether it was field work, merchant work, service work, etc.

 

Comparing our generation to an anomaly of about 10 years in American history that was wildly prosperous, and where wages were strong enough where it became feasible for large numbers of families to rely upon one income, is ludicrous and again, belies the reality of our great-grandmothers, great-great grandmothers and their maternal ancestors. It also belies the fact that many women in the 50's did work outside the home, especially if they were African American or other minority.

 

So, my goal as a parent isn't based focused on my status as in- or out-of-home working mom, it's based upon helping my family by whatever means I can in this particular moment, and focusing on making memories with my dh and my ds as a family. That's the same goal my working grandmother had, and like her, I feel my life is richer and fuller because I'm not worried about fitting myself into someone else's social construct. I'm too busy living my life.

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Skimming the thread....

 

I could have missed this comment by someone else, but my initial response was to laugh at the obvious judgement of the women who dress differently, and that it sounded to me like the OP used to wear the same things?? Maybe I was wrong.

 

Well - actually - my initial response was, "Oh, another 'us vs them' thread."

 

Anyway - there is an enormous amount of "in-between" there that is entirely missed. I do not see how traditional roles, home schooling, staying home, etc., corresponds automatically to wearing baggy clothes, gym clothes, and/or no makeup.

I wear makeup every day, always have even when the kids were little (it only takes me about 5 minutes), wear nicely fitting clothes (even if they are jeans, capris, and t-shirts), and am modern in many ways even though I have shoen to stay home.

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I've only gotten to pg 12, and have to go grocery shopping, but so far what comes to mind is:

 

I wanna have some floozy wear. *sniffle*

 

Wolf wouldn't let me out of the house though...he'd assume it was an invitation to TeA. :D:lol:

Edited by Impish
eeerrr...it was supposed to be 'shopping', not chopping
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