Dad teaches daughter a lesson on Facebook.

[Shawna in Texas]

I live in South Florida on the county line between and Dade (Miami) and Broward (Ft. Lauderdale) and I've never seen people just shooting guns off in their backyards. People go to shooting ranges to practice, but don't shoot on their own property that I've ever heard of (or seen).

 

I was shocked by the video as well, but after reading 19 pages of this thread now, I see that it is quite normal in his culture. It is a little intimidating to me as well, but South Florida is really not "Southern". You have to go further north in the state to get to more true Southern culture. Down here we have a bunch of Latinos who usually deal with family matters in a more private way. I really do learn something new everyday.

 

I meant to mention this in my last post. The small town I lived in around SE Texas, it was completely the norm to shoot in your yard if you had some acreage. If you didn't have the acreage, one of your friends did. I took a class during my senior year called Wildlife (I wanted an easy credit) that taught you to hold a rifle and we got to watch hunting videos.

[Just Beachy]

Ok, I'm hijacking again. ;)

 

Let's see if I've got this right...

 

Basically, we can move to the South and not worry that people are going to shoot at stuff in their yard as long as we live in a city or a suburban area where the yards aren't too large, but if we move to a rural area, all bets are off. And depending where we go, we will no longer view coyotes as being "cute" or "cool," as we do here because it's pretty rare to see one, and if you do, you get bragging rights for a while. In rural areas, Coyotes are Bad. We may also need to watch out for snakes, because I think we can all agree that Poisonous Snakes are Bad, particularly when they are biting you. And wild hogs are no day at the beach, either.

 

I'm thinking that country living may not be for us. :D

 

Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I learn so much cool stuff on this forum! :001_smile:

 

LOL!!! Of course, you need to keep the 'gators in mind, too -- depending on where you are looking to move, of course. The other day we were driving down the road and my dd pointed out a gator that was sunning on the banks of a pond.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Just Beachy

[Dustybug]

If it matters, here is an update from his page that talks about how cps was called and even the police told him "Kudos" and how one of them even said they would use the video in a school presentation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/#!/tommyjordaniii/posts/10150525596420846

[Heather in Neverland]

I finally got around to watching the video and I give the dad two thumbs up. His daughter sounds like a whiny, disrespectful, little brat that is typical of her "entitlement generation".

 

But, of course, I am biased since I, after having one too many arguments with my ds over his playing video games and refusing to do his chores/work, very calmly took a hammer to his GameCube then chucked it out onto the sidewalk. :D

 

Years later he laughs about the incident, agrees he deserved it, and is much more careful with his priorities.

 

 

 

.

[Heather in Neverland]

If it matters, here is an update from his page that talks about how cps was called and even the police told him "Kudos" and how one of them even said they would use the video in a school presentation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/#!/tommyjordaniii/posts/10150525596420846

 

Awesome!

[pqr]

 

But, of course, I am biased since I, after having one too many arguments with my ds over his playing video games and refusing to do his chores/work, very calmly took a hammer to his GameCube then chucked it out onto the sidewalk. :D

 

Years later he laughs about the incident, agrees he deserved it, and is much more careful with his priorities.

 

 

 

.

 

Nicely done......and despite all the nay-sayers it appears to have worked.

[Renthead Mommy]

I grew up in Essex county NJ, just outside NYC and live in Nassau county, Long Island now. But I've also lived in NC, GA and Texas.

 

If you go out in your backyard in NJ/NY and shoot something it is a big deal. Especially where I lived. I guess probably not so much in many areas of Newark.

 

However if you go outside in your backyard in NC, GA or Texas it is not a big deal.

 

When we first moved to NC we would laugh that they put signs on the doors saying no concealled weapons because carry and conceal is legal there. I remember seeing bike riders, ones you could tell were distance type riders by the bike/clothes, with guns in holsters at the small of their back. Not because it was unsafe, but because they could carry.

 

You want to go outside and shoot something it's okay. Probably not okay inside the city limits, but it seemed to be prefectly fine to do on your property if you were in the 'country'.

 

OK, I have to ask a question. There has been a bit of a running theme here that suggests that if you're from the South or grew up around guns, that a guy shooting a laptop wouldn't be viewed as a big deal. Is that really true?

 

Here's the thing -- my dh and I grew up in New York City and New Jersey, and my family had guns in the house, but neither my dh nor I have ever heard of someone getting mad at their computer or their TV or some other inanimate object... and shooting it. Never. Ever.

 

And if anyone did do something like that in our town, they would be arrested. Period. People aren't allowed to go to the field out back and fire off a weapon.

 

Honestly, I don't care one way or the other about the laptop thing; I'm just wondering if there really are places where it would be viewed as normal to do what the father did, because if we found out that one of our friends or neighbors shot their kid's computer, we would think he was some kind of nut.

 

I'm sorry if I sound judgmental, but my dh may be retiring soon and lots of people are telling us to move south... And I'm thinking that if it's that acceptable to go out in the backyard and shoot stuff, it's probably not a wise move for us.

 

Besides, if you're going to shoot a gun where we live, you make sure the guy deserves it, and you double-check to make sure you have enough gas in the car to get you to the Pine Barrens and back. ;)

 

Not that I would know for sure about that.

 

But it's what I've heard... :D

[Renthead Mommy]

OK, I'm adding scorpions to the Bad list. :D

 

Oh and in Texas we had tarantulas. Ours was named Fuzzy. A friend found it in her bathtub. He molted twice and by then his leg span was almost bigger than the palm of my hand. Don't think he was full grown yet either!

 

:001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

If it matters, here is an update from his page that talks about how cps was called and even the police told him "Kudos" and how one of them even said they would use the video in a school presentation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/#!/tommyjordaniii/posts/10150525596420846

 

 

Again, this is his retelling of how it all went. :glare:

 

"She [cps worker] asked if I minded if she interviewed my daughter privately but that I didn't have to agree. I let her meet in private and then she and I met for about an hour and a half. At the end of the day, no I'm not losing my kids, no one's in danger of being ripped from our home that I know of, and I actually got to spend some time with the nice lady and learn some cool parenting tips that I didn't know.. I use them on my 8 year old son, but not on my fifteen year old daughter.. but now I will! There were a few things I thought she was "too old" for, but after talking to the case worker, I feel like it's worth a shot to try them."

 

As he's said he parents the way he was parented - not exactly in so many words - I'm sure he uses corporal punishment as a standard. This latest post of his does nothing to change my mind about his parenting style. IMO the whole point of that video was to embarrass, but even more so, to intimidate. Sadly, I think his daughter has learned her language and ways to deal with her anger - from him.

[susankenny]

I thought the dad was spot on. I would not have handled it that way, but I didn't think he was over the top. His daughter sounds like a spoiled PITA.

 

 

Susan

[Renthead Mommy]

I don't simply think it was acceptable, I think it was a very good lesson. (Personally I think I would have sold the laptop, but I have no truck with what he did)

 

Some posters have complained but been unable to explain why there is an issue.

 

1. The girl was incredibly rude and stupid.

2. She was punished.:

 

Where is the issue?

 

The father is not (by any evidence shown here) nuts, the firearm was used safely, there was no violence towards the daughter.

 

I am not being argumentative but what is the issue?

 

As to "abuse we did not know was abuse" perhaps that is because some of the things we call abuse today are actually not abuse. Psychobabble is easily accepted but that does not mean it is always correct.

 

 

:iagree:

[Dustybug]

Again' date=' this is his retelling of how it all went. :glare:

 

"She [cps worker'] asked if I minded if she interviewed my daughter privately but that I didn't have to agree. I let her meet in private and then she and I met for about an hour and a half. At the end of the day, no I'm not losing my kids, no one's in danger of being ripped from our home that I know of, and I actually got to spend some time with the nice lady and learn some cool parenting tips that I didn't know.. I use them on my 8 year old son, but not on my fifteen year old daughter.. but now I will! There were a few things I thought she was "too old" for, but after talking to the case worker, I feel like it's worth a shot to try them."

 

As he's said he parents the way he was parented - not exactly in so many words - I'm sure he uses corporal punishment as a standard. This latest post of his does nothing to change my mind about his parenting style. IMO the whole point of that video was to embarrass, but even more so, to intimidate. Sadly, I think his daughter has learned her language and ways to deal with her anger - from him.

 

yes, it is his retelling,but I believe it. I live not too far from him and I personally know of a story where a woman's two young boys locked her out of her own van in a grocery store parking lot and then wouldn't unlock the door. She was forced to call the police to open the car doors for her and she calmly told the police officer that when he opened the doors, she would be disciplining the children and he gave her a pat on the back and told her to do so because they deserved it. I'm not against corporal punishment if properly administered (but that isn't what this thread is about).

 

I just have to shake my head when any time a parent makes a serious stand with their children they are criticized so much. It is really no wonder that there are so many self-important whiny young adults these days who don't want to work for anything. This is NOT abuse, and from someone who grew up in an abusive household with an alcoholic mother with a string of nasty, violent alcoholic and drug addicted men, I find it offensive that THIS is deemed abusive. Extreme? Maybe. Abusive? No.

 

ETA: I did NOT grow up in this southern style culture either, so that was not an influence on whether or not I think this is "normal" parenting or not.

[Teachin'Mine]

And shooting in the yard is second nature in NC. 10 shots to the computer with buckshot wouldnt have been enough for that foul mouthed disrespectful child. Most kids need their seat warmed up on a regular basis! Most of them are so cruel! Why is parenting regulated by cps, dss, and police? Parents dont stand a chance today with so many agencies restricting their right to bring stripes to a childs behind thats worthy of it! OMG what is the world coming to? All these people with soft hearts to disrespectful children whose only wish ia to railroad their parents. Someone needs to "man up" and grab the bull by the horns!

 

Are you her father by any chance?

 

I agree with you on one thing - Facebook isn't a good idea - as many are discovering.

[Teachin'Mine]

yes, it is his retelling,but I believe it. I live not too far from him and I personally know of a story where a woman's two young boys locked her out of her own van in a grocery store parking lot and then wouldn't unlock the door. She was forced to call the police to open the car doors for her and she calmly told the police officer that when he opened the doors, she would be disciplining the children and he gave her a pat on the back and told her to do so because they deserved it. I'm not against corporal punishment if properly administered (but that isn't what this thread is about).

 

I just have to shake my head when any time a parent makes a serious stand with their children they are criticized so much. It is really no wonder that there are so many self-important whiny young adults these days who don't want to work for anything. This is NOT abuse, and from someone who grew up in an abusive household with an alcoholic mother with a string of nasty, violent alcoholic and drug addicted men, I find it offensive that THIS is deemed abusive. Extreme? Maybe. Abusive? No.

 

ETA: I did NOT grow up in this southern style culture either, so that was not an influence on whether or not I think this is "normal" parenting or not.

 

I think that's because the type of parenting which draws national attention is extreme. We don't hear about the parents who parent well, teach their children to be respectful, discipline - as in teach - appropriately, have boundaries, consequences and consistency in follow through. These parents take a stand with their children every day. These children are respectful - usually anyway - and not out of fear, but out of love and knowing right from wrong. I know this thread isn't about corporal punishment, but the father has mentioned it in his posts and is clear on his position.

[Jennifer3141]

Ok, I'm hijacking again. ;)

 

Let's see if I've got this right...

 

Basically, we can move to the South and not worry that people are going to shoot at stuff in their yard as long as we live in a city or a suburban area where the yards aren't too large, but if we move to a rural area, all bets are off. And depending where we go, we will no longer view coyotes as being "cute" or "cool," as we do here because it's pretty rare to see one, and if you do, you get bragging rights for a while. In rural areas, Coyotes are Bad. We may also need to watch out for snakes, because I think we can all agree that Poisonous Snakes are Bad, particularly when they are biting you. And wild hogs are no day at the beach, either.

 

I'm thinking that country living may not be for us. :D

 

Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I learn so much cool stuff on this forum! :001_smile:

 

My parents sent me to South Carolina every summer when I was a kid and let me tell you, those were the most unhappy times of my life. Cutlurally, I was more at home in FRANCE than I ever felt in the south and I wasn't so great in French those first few trips. I can see how winters are going to get really old up here when I'm really old but by that time, I'll hopefully be able to order all my groceries from Amazon. :lol:

Edited February 11, 2012 by Jennifer3141

[justamouse]

Ok, I'm hijacking again. ;)

 

Let's see if I've got this right...

 

Basically, we can move to the South and not worry that people are going to shoot at stuff in their yard as long as we live in a city or a suburban area where the yards aren't too large, but if we move to a rural area, all bets are off. And depending where we go, we will no longer view coyotes as being "cute" or "cool," as we do here because it's pretty rare to see one, and if you do, you get bragging rights for a while. In rural areas, Coyotes are Bad. We may also need to watch out for snakes, because I think we can all agree that Poisonous Snakes are Bad, particularly when they are biting you. And wild hogs are no day at the beach, either.

 

I'm thinking that country living may not be for us. :D

 

Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I learn so much cool stuff on this forum! :001_smile:

 

Noooo....BAD idea, you moving there.

[swellmomma]

Can I just say reading his update that was linked above he sounds like any one of us on this forum when it comes to education, disappointment in the school system, lax parents who expect the ps to raise their kids, Math class not teaching how to actually solve the problem just how to enter into a calculator etc. We have all griped abut these same things. Lack of grammar, lack of cursive, lack of being taught anything substantial really.

 

I would expect that with so many of us being on a classical forum it is because we want those things taught. In addition we all seem to be wanting our kids to have a great work ethic and perseverance, to have the life skills needed to support themselves, maintain a home, have healthy relationships etc. We all go about it differently, Some are more puniative, some are more relaxed. We all chose to keep our kids home and educate them, which as we all know is not all about the academics. It is also about ensuring the family is first, not the peers, passing on our family morals etc. How many of those posting on this forum post about how many hours a day their kids to school, how long the list of chores is, what age they want their child to have a job. Heck we just had posts recently about school vs working and how much the child is to contribute to the home either financially or through chores/service.

 

Seriously if that video had not gone viral and that dad was posting here I think we would all like him, and agree with many of his ideals for his kids. This last quote from his recent update I think rings true for how many of us here on this forum think

 

 

"Modern" parenting raises ill-prepared kids who can't do anything and have no skills because they're protected from even LEARNING them until 18 years old, at which time you want us parents to throw them out into the world, send them off to college, and expect them to be productive members of society? You can take your "modern" parenting, and shove it. Jeezus people. Half of you think chores at 15 are too much! God forbid we make them actually WORK too!"

 

Now I am not advocating to go out and shot your child's possessions, or to belt them everyday etc. But I do think that his thinking rings true. I am sure I recall people on this forum in recent days to be posting about how society now prolongs adolescents and that this is causing a lot of the rebellion we see happening now a days. I agree with pqr in saying it is all psychobabble. Yes children should be shown respect, not beaten etc. But sometimes showing that respect means holding them to a higher standard than society does because we know they can handle it. I think it shows disrespect to your child when you allow him/her to become a spoiled brat, lazy, rude, entitled etc. I think you show respect to your child when you expect better from them because you KNOW they are capable of better. I think you show respect to your child when you raise them to be capable adults ready to face the world as a strong independant person, not a lazy moddle coddled twit.

 

This dad did not act in the best way that day, but who among us has not made mistakes in parenting while we strive for the above? We have all just been smart enough or lucky enough not to have it posted on facebook or youtube. Since there is only a few people who think that they are perfect parents on here, I would suspect that the majority of us has our own list of screwups in an effort to do the right thing to get the point across to our kids.

 

I really don't think this dad is evil or somehow damaging his child. I do not think that shooting the computer translates into a desire to harm his child nor do I think it is the first step towards violence towards people. I think he is a regular dad that wants the the best for his kids, wants them to be able to stand on their own 2 feet as an adult and is hitting brick walls erected by society in it's effort to prolong childhood. I think like us on this forum he is swimming upstream of society's "ideals" of parenting and made a bad choice in his manner of addressing this issue. Shooting the computer was not his first response, he used the mainstream ways of handling it, (grounding, loss of privledges etc), he took an extreme step next but an effective one. One could argue we all took the extreme (but effective) step of trying to raise our kids to be productive adults the day we decided to homeschool (or afterschool for those that have decided to do extra with their kids).

[Catwoman]

And shooting in the yard is second nature in NC. 10 shots to the computer with buckshot wouldnt have been enough for that foul mouthed disrespectful child. Most kids need their seat warmed up on a regular basis! Most of them are so cruel! Why is parenting regulated by cps, dss, and police? Parents dont stand a chance today with so many agencies restricting their right to bring stripes to a childs behind thats worthy of it! OMG what is the world coming to? All these people with soft hearts to disrespectful children whose only wish ia to railroad their parents. Someone needs to "man up" and grab the bull by the horns!

 

It's always so interesting when a new member's first two posts are extremely inflammatory and have absolutely nothing to do with homeschooling.

 

You know, on a homeschooling forum. Where you don't know anyone and would normally want to create a positive first impression...

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Can I just say reading his update that was linked above he sounds like any one of us on this forum when it comes to education, disappointment in the school system, lax parents who expect the ps to raise their kids, Math class not teaching how to actually solve the problem just how to enter into a calculator etc. We have all griped abut these same things. Lack of grammar, lack of cursive, lack of being taught anything substantial really.

 

I would expect that with so many of us being on a classical forum it is because we want those things taught. In addition we all seem to be wanting our kids to have a great work ethic and perseverance, to have the life skills needed to support themselves, maintain a home, have healthy relationships etc. We all go about it differently, Some are more puniative, some are more relaxed. We all chose to keep our kids home and educate them, which as we all know is not all about the academics. It is also about ensuring the family is first, not the peers, passing on our family morals etc. How many of those posting on this forum post about how many hours a day their kids to school, how long the list of chores is, what age they want their child to have a job. Heck we just had posts recently about school vs working and how much the child is to contribute to the home either financially or through chores/service.

 

Seriously if that video had not gone viral and that dad was posting here I think we would all like him, and agree with many of his ideals for his kids. This last quote from his recent update I think rings true for how many of us here on this forum think

 

 

"Modern" parenting raises ill-prepared kids who can't do anything and have no skills because they're protected from even LEARNING them until 18 years old, at which time you want us parents to throw them out into the world, send them off to college, and expect them to be productive members of society? You can take your "modern" parenting, and shove it. Jeezus people. Half of you think chores at 15 are too much! God forbid we make them actually WORK too!"

 

Now I am not advocating to go out and shot your child's possessions, or to belt them everyday etc. But I do think that his thinking rings true. I am sure I recall people on this forum in recent days to be posting about how society now prolongs adolescents and that this is causing a lot of the rebellion we see happening now a days. I agree with pqr in saying it is all psychobabble. Yes children should be shown respect, not beaten etc. But sometimes showing that respect means holding them to a higher standard than society does because we know they can handle it. I think it shows disrespect to your child when you allow him/her to become a spoiled brat, lazy, rude, entitled etc. I think you show respect to your child when you expect better from them because you KNOW they are capable of better. I think you show respect to your child when you raise them to be capable adults ready to face the world as a strong independant person, not a lazy moddle coddled twit.

 

This dad did not act in the best way that day, but who among us has not made mistakes in parenting while we strive for the above? We have all just been smart enough or lucky enough not to have it posted on facebook or youtube. Since there is only a few people who think that they are perfect parents on here, I would suspect that the majority of us has our own list of screwups in an effort to do the right thing to get the point across to our kids.

 

I really don't think this dad is evil or somehow damaging his child. I do not think that shooting the computer translates into a desire to harm his child nor do I think it is the first step towards violence towards people. I think he is a regular dad that wants the the best for his kids, wants them to be able to stand on their own 2 feet as an adult and is hitting brick walls erected by society in it's effort to prolong childhood. I think like us on this forum he is swimming upstream of society's "ideals" of parenting and made a bad choice in his manner of addressing this issue. Shooting the computer was not his first response, he used the mainstream ways of handling it, (grounding, loss of privledges etc), he took an extreme step next but an effective one. One could argue we all took the extreme (but effective) step of trying to raise our kids to be productive adults the day we decided to homeschool (or afterschool for those that have decided to do extra with their kids).

 

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

I live on acerage in New England (I can see Harvard from my back yard...not quite, but Sarah Palin should somehow be referenced in this thread) and while we do not target shoot, the past owners most certainly did. We've lived here for a few years now, and still find spent shells inside edge of our property, which is an iconic and poetic Robert Frost -type stone fence.

Edited February 11, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Halcyon]

For the record im not the childs father, but I do have a daughter who was abusing facebook. Facebook is for, oh I dont know, weak minded people. "Oh im going here today, so just come on by and rob my house when its convenient". Facebook was originally made for the college community not the public. Now its just social media gone berzerk! This forum is going in the wrong direction already too. How did someone get on the subject of coyotes? To end that subject, coyotes are predators that wont mind attacking a young child if they are presented with the opportunity. They kill livestock and small home pets. So no coyotes arent cute! They are animals with predatory instinct who dont mind killing anything in your immediate area if given the chance. Extinct is a better word to describe coyotes in their future state. I trap them and remove them from the eco system. So thats the deal with coyotes. If u dont like guns, you dont like your country! We have the right to bear arms. If the gun haters keep on, we can just invite the Afghan's and Saudis to raid our country and take what they want. People who have problems with guns have no problems with what happened on 9/11. Guns allow us to protect our freedom in this messed up country! No guns NO FREEDOM! So enough about guns! This is about a man concerned with his child not growing up to be a debt to society but a contributor to it. He did the right thing. Probably should've done more.

 

 

:rofl::smilielol5::blink:

 

Settling in......:D

[Impish]

Deleting, since the mod deleted the original quote.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Impish

[Ester Maria]

Play sports and do not practice and go down to defeat 10-0. That is humiliating but it is also a good lesson.

 

Fail to do your homework and get a low grade, which used to be posted. That is humiliating but also a good lesson.

 

In many places the police blotter is publicly available. Also humiliating but a good lesson.

 

Act like a spoiled brat and be humiliated. So what?

The first problem is that these examples are about natural consequences and transparency, rather than a specific intention to publicly shame. So, sure, if there is a policy about transparent grades (which BTW I support 100%), there may be an element of shame in finding your name down the list with Ds and Fs rather than up the list with As and Bs, but the only real purpose of that list is transparency. Being defeated in sports is pretty much the same thing - a natural course of events, nobody attempting to "teach you a lesson". I am all for transparency and being fair - but not for public moralizing (and that is what it comes across like).

 

The second problem is in proportions. Even if we were to agree that the girl does merit some punishment, this was like overstepping the limits of the "necessary" punishment. You cannot react to a slap with a knockout, so to speak. So, okay, she posted something stupid, in a semi-public sphere (from what I understand, unless she has a completely public profile, it can be viewed only by people in her network?). If he insisted about public offenses being handled publicly, he could have told her off by posting a reply to that, which would be viewed by the same group of people, and then handled the rest of it privately (by limiting her internet privileges, or donating a computer if she is too silly to use it properly, finding alternative ways to deal with her self-investment, etc.). But nope. He destroyed her laptop, made a video of it, uploaded it to Youtube (a different medium, for much larger audience to make it) and created a public scandal about which I read in foreign newspapers (talk about news spreading quickly *literally all over the world* nowadays!). Here is the link, then another one, and yet another one, and this is only based on a cursory Google search in some languages I happen to speak. The world reaction has been exponential, there are forum topics and talk-backs on online newspapers quite literally all over the world commenting this case. I simply fail to see how did the girl possibly deserve the reaction of these proportions. It is bordering on dangerous in my eyes, I do not understand why would one subject their child to this - heck, even if I were to agree that he had the "right" to destroy the laptop to "make a point" (although I believe he should not have actually exercised that right), the whole thing had a potential of going viral the second he put it on Youtube, and now it provoked a reaction which simply cannot be considered fair in proportions or a natural consequence of any kind.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Please don't feed the. . . well, you know

[Caroline]

The first problem is that these examples are about natural consequences and transparency, rather than a specific intention to publicly shame. So, sure, if there is a policy about transparent grades (which BTW I support 100%), there may be an element of shame in finding your name down the list with Ds and Fs rather than up the list with As and Bs, but the only real purpose of that list is transparency. Being defeated in sports is pretty much the same thing - a natural course of events, nobody attempting to "teach you a lesson". I am all for transparency and being fair - but not for public moralizing (and that is what it comes across like).

 

The second problem is in proportions. Even if we were to agree that the girl does merit some punishment, this was like overstepping the limits of the "necessary" punishment. You cannot react to a slap with a knockout, so to speak. So, okay, she posted something stupid, in a semi-public sphere (from what I understand, unless she has a completely public profile, it can be viewed only by people in her network?). If he insisted about public offenses being handled publicly, he could have told her off by posting a reply to that, which would be viewed by the same group of people, and then handled the rest of it privately (by limiting her internet privileges, or donating a computer if she is too silly to use it properly, finding alternative ways to deal with her self-investment, etc.). But nope. He destroyed her laptop, made a video of it, uploaded it to Youtube (a different medium, for much larger audience to make it) and created a public scandal about which I read in foreign newspapers (talk about news spreading quickly *literally all over the world* nowadays!). Here is the link, then another one, and yet another one, and this is only based on a cursory Google search in some languages I happen to speak. The world reaction has been exponential, there are forum topics and talk-backs on online newspapers quite literally all over the world commenting this case. I simply fail to see how did the girl possibly deserve the reaction of these proportions. It is bordering on dangerous in my eyes, I do not understand why would one subject their child to this - heck, even if I were to agree that he had the "right" to destroy the laptop to "make a point" (although I believe he should not have actually exercised that right), the whole thing had a potential of going viral the second he put it on Youtube, and now it provoked a reaction which simply cannot be considered fair in proportions or a natural consequence of any kind.

 

Amen!

[Impish]

Deleting, since the mod deleted the original quote.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Impish

[Impish]

Deleting, since the mod deleted the original quote.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Impish

[justamouse]

The first problem is that these examples are about natural consequences and transparency, rather than a specific intention to publicly shame. So, sure, if there is a policy about transparent grades (which BTW I support 100%), there may be an element of shame in finding your name down the list with Ds and Fs rather than up the list with As and Bs, but the only real purpose of that list is transparency. Being defeated in sports is pretty much the same thing - a natural course of events, nobody attempting to "teach you a lesson". I am all for transparency and being fair - but not for public moralizing (and that is what it comes across like).

 

The second problem is in proportions. Even if we were to agree that the girl does merit some punishment, this was like overstepping the limits of the "necessary" punishment. You cannot react to a slap with a knockout, so to speak. So, okay, she posted something stupid, in a semi-public sphere (from what I understand, unless she has a completely public profile, it can be viewed only by people in her network?). If he insisted about public offenses being handled publicly, he could have told her off by posting a reply to that, which would be viewed by the same group of people, and then handled the rest of it privately (by limiting her internet privileges, or donating a computer if she is too silly to use it properly, finding alternative ways to deal with her self-investment, etc.). But nope. He destroyed her laptop, made a video of it, uploaded it to Youtube (a different medium, for much larger audience to make it) and created a public scandal about which I read in foreign newspapers (talk about news spreading quickly *literally all over the world* nowadays!). Here is the link, then another one, and yet another one, and this is only based on a cursory Google search in some languages I happen to speak. The world reaction has been exponential, there are forum topics and talk-backs on online newspapers quite literally all over the world commenting this case. I simply fail to see how did the girl possibly deserve the reaction of these proportions. It is bordering on dangerous in my eyes, I do not understand why would one subject their child to this - heck, even if I were to agree that he had the "right" to destroy the laptop to "make a point" (although I believe he should not have actually exercised that right), the whole thing had a potential of going viral the second he put it on Youtube, and now it provoked a reaction which simply cannot be considered fair in proportions or a natural consequence of any kind.

 

That's exactly what I meant in my first post.

 

It is not a day and age where you should open your family up to that scrutiny, and, while I'm sure the father really didn't intend for it to go this far...wisdom would tell you there was a possibility, and therefore shouldn't be done.

 

I'm not against a dad shooting up his daughter's laptop. I'm against him putting it on facebook (a seemingly lesser consequence) because while he thinks it's equal to getting a dressing down in a store (public), it's actually much worse.

 

She is now THAT kid, forever, and ever, amen. And being stupid at 15 is not proportionate to that worldwide infamy.

Edited February 11, 2012 by justamouse

[LibraryLover]

This would have been a much better story if a hot outback Aussie guy had done this. Maybe with a machete or blow darts.

 

Cowboys are so passe, so Cold War.

Edited February 11, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Dustybug]

Can I just say reading his update that was linked above he sounds like any one of us on this forum when it comes to education, disappointment in the school system, lax parents who expect the ps to raise their kids, Math class not teaching how to actually solve the problem just how to enter into a calculator etc. We have all griped abut these same things. Lack of grammar, lack of cursive, lack of being taught anything substantial really.

 

I would expect that with so many of us being on a classical forum it is because we want those things taught. In addition we all seem to be wanting our kids to have a great work ethic and perseverance, to have the life skills needed to support themselves, maintain a home, have healthy relationships etc. We all go about it differently, Some are more puniative, some are more relaxed. We all chose to keep our kids home and educate them, which as we all know is not all about the academics. It is also about ensuring the family is first, not the peers, passing on our family morals etc. How many of those posting on this forum post about how many hours a day their kids to school, how long the list of chores is, what age they want their child to have a job. Heck we just had posts recently about school vs working and how much the child is to contribute to the home either financially or through chores/service.

 

Seriously if that video had not gone viral and that dad was posting here I think we would all like him, and agree with many of his ideals for his kids. This last quote from his recent update I think rings true for how many of us here on this forum think

 

 

"Modern" parenting raises ill-prepared kids who can't do anything and have no skills because they're protected from even LEARNING them until 18 years old, at which time you want us parents to throw them out into the world, send them off to college, and expect them to be productive members of society? You can take your "modern" parenting, and shove it. Jeezus people. Half of you think chores at 15 are too much! God forbid we make them actually WORK too!"

 

Now I am not advocating to go out and shot your child's possessions, or to belt them everyday etc. But I do think that his thinking rings true. I am sure I recall people on this forum in recent days to be posting about how society now prolongs adolescents and that this is causing a lot of the rebellion we see happening now a days. I agree with pqr in saying it is all psychobabble. Yes children should be shown respect, not beaten etc. But sometimes showing that respect means holding them to a higher standard than society does because we know they can handle it. I think it shows disrespect to your child when you allow him/her to become a spoiled brat, lazy, rude, entitled etc. I think you show respect to your child when you expect better from them because you KNOW they are capable of better. I think you show respect to your child when you raise them to be capable adults ready to face the world as a strong independant person, not a lazy moddle coddled twit.

 

This dad did not act in the best way that day, but who among us has not made mistakes in parenting while we strive for the above? We have all just been smart enough or lucky enough not to have it posted on facebook or youtube. Since there is only a few people who think that they are perfect parents on here, I would suspect that the majority of us has our own list of screwups in an effort to do the right thing to get the point across to our kids.

 

I really don't think this dad is evil or somehow damaging his child. I do not think that shooting the computer translates into a desire to harm his child nor do I think it is the first step towards violence towards people. I think he is a regular dad that wants the the best for his kids, wants them to be able to stand on their own 2 feet as an adult and is hitting brick walls erected by society in it's effort to prolong childhood. I think like us on this forum he is swimming upstream of society's "ideals" of parenting and made a bad choice in his manner of addressing this issue. Shooting the computer was not his first response, he used the mainstream ways of handling it, (grounding, loss of privledges etc), he took an extreme step next but an effective one. One could argue we all took the extreme (but effective) step of trying to raise our kids to be productive adults the day we decided to homeschool (or afterschool for those that have decided to do extra with their kids).

 

 

:iagree:

[justamouse]

This would have been a much better story if a hot outback Aussie guy had done this. Maybe with a machete or blow darts.

 

Cowboys are so passe, so Cold War.

:lol:

[Hwin]

Ok, I'm hijacking again. ;)

 

Let's see if I've got this right...

 

Basically, we can move to the South and not worry that people are going to shoot at stuff in their yard as long as we live in a city or a suburban area where the yards aren't too large, but if we move to a rural area, all bets are off. And depending where we go, we will no longer view coyotes as being "cute" or "cool," as we do here because it's pretty rare to see one, and if you do, you get bragging rights for a while. In rural areas, Coyotes are Bad. We may also need to watch out for snakes, because I think we can all agree that Poisonous Snakes are Bad, particularly when they are biting you. And wild hogs are no day at the beach, either.

 

I'm thinking that country living may not be for us. :D

 

Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I learn so much cool stuff on this forum! :001_smile:

 

NO coyotes aren't cute!!! They chewed up my favorite Care Bear when I left him in the woods...

 

I'm in NY and my dad had to get permission to shoot a porcupine that was hanging out in the apple tree, so no, it's not really allowed when you only live on half an acre. My sibs did have an epic fight over a tv show once that ended in Dad smashing the TV on the front sidewalk, though. It ended the fight and we still laugh about it.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I just tuned into this thread, and I've only read a few responses.

 

I watched his video for a couple of minutes, but then had to stop. I didn't like his tone at all. Yes, the girl did a dumb thing. She's a teenager. They do dumb things and they disrespect their parents on a regular basis. I think she should be punished for what she wrote, but not humiliated on the internet. The father seems to be on a huge power trip, and I would probably be very resentful of him if I were his daughter.

[TranquilMind]

maddykate: He found evidence of her feelings and rather than addressing them in a way that would get to the bottom of the situation, he behaves in a like manner and shows what an idiot he is.

 

He didn't just find evidence of her feelings. He found a public curse-filled, lying rant against her family filled with half/mistruths and he corrected the information in the same manner and to the same audience to which it was delivered.

 

As far as the abuse goes... Do you not think that humiliation is a form of abuse? Do you not think that bullying is a form of abuse? In my mind, that father did both of those things.

 

No, humiliation that is a completely foreseeable result of your OWN actions is not abuse. If she had never posted anything and he posted this video, I would agree with you. But she had done it before, lost privileges for three months, and by golly, did it again!

 

Also, telling a 15 year old to get off her lazy a$$ and get a job every day sounds an awful lot like verbal abuse.

 

Here, I agree. I would never talk to my child like that and I find it inappropriate to do so. His point that she should work for what she wants is a reasonable one, but not the manner in which he related it.

[mamajag]

There is a new update and I like the guy even more now. Apparently law enforcement and CPS have been out and found no problems.

 

Facebook update

[funschooler5]

The first problem is that these examples are about natural consequences and transparency, rather than a specific intention to publicly shame. So, sure, if there is a policy about transparent grades (which BTW I support 100%), there may be an element of shame in finding your name down the list with Ds and Fs rather than up the list with As and Bs, but the only real purpose of that list is transparency. Being defeated in sports is pretty much the same thing - a natural course of events, nobody attempting to "teach you a lesson". I am all for transparency and being fair - but not for public moralizing (and that is what it comes across like).

 

The second problem is in proportions. Even if we were to agree that the girl does merit some punishment, this was like overstepping the limits of the "necessary" punishment. You cannot react to a slap with a knockout, so to speak. So, okay, she posted something stupid, in a semi-public sphere (from what I understand, unless she has a completely public profile, it can be viewed only by people in her network?). If he insisted about public offenses being handled publicly, he could have told her off by posting a reply to that, which would be viewed by the same group of people, and then handled the rest of it privately (by limiting her internet privileges, or donating a computer if she is too silly to use it properly, finding alternative ways to deal with her self-investment, etc.). But nope. He destroyed her laptop, made a video of it, uploaded it to Youtube (a different medium, for much larger audience to make it) and created a public scandal about which I read in foreign newspapers (talk about news spreading quickly *literally all over the world* nowadays!). Here is the link, then another one, and yet another one, and this is only based on a cursory Google search in some languages I happen to speak. The world reaction has been exponential, there are forum topics and talk-backs on online newspapers quite literally all over the world commenting this case. I simply fail to see how did the girl possibly deserve the reaction of these proportions. It is bordering on dangerous in my eyes, I do not understand why would one subject their child to this - heck, even if I were to agree that he had the "right" to destroy the laptop to "make a point" (although I believe he should not have actually exercised that right), the whole thing had a potential of going viral the second he put it on Youtube, and now it provoked a reaction which simply cannot be considered fair in proportions or a natural consequence of any kind.

 

:iagree:

 

Exactly.

 

I don't think what this guy did was abusive, I just think it was stupid. I think his first priority was looking "cool," not punishing her. If he was really serious about the punishment, why the heck did he let her view the FB comments afterward? It makes no sense. For some reason he was very mad about how he looked to her FB friends (which seems kind of childish to me...why the heck would you care about what a bunch of teens think about you?). So if she whines to her friends at school about her parents, what is he going to do about that?

 

The shooting of the laptop makes absolutely no sense. Just take it away. FB was the main problem, right? And the Internet? Destroying the laptop was just a dumb dramatic gesture.

[Impish]

:iagree:

 

Exactly.

 

I don't think what this guy did was abusive, I just think it was stupid. I think his first priority was looking "cool," not punishing her. If he was really serious about the punishment, why the heck did he let her view the FB comments afterward? It makes no sense. For some reason he was very mad about how he looked to her FB friends (which seems kind of childish to me...why the heck would you care about what a bunch of teens think about you?). So if she whines to her friends at school about her parents, what is he going to do about that?

 

The shooting of the laptop makes absolutely no sense. Just take it away. FB was the main problem, right? And the Internet? Destroying the laptop was just a dumb dramatic gesture.

I don't think it was a matter of how he looked to a bunch of teens.

 

I think it was a multi faceted issue. One, she blocked her parents accessing her fb page, which she'd already been told was a no.

 

Two, she'd been warned previously about online behaviour.

 

Three, she LIED.

 

Four, she was told when she got her laptop back, that if she misbehaved w/it again, he'd 'put a bullet in it'...so he followed through w/his warning. Obviously taking it away for 3 mths previously did nothing to get through to her.

 

To me, posting something like that on fb is like standing in a crowded mall w/a bull horn, insulting and lying about her mom, dad, step mom and family friend.

 

I don't see the logic in, "Yes, she did this publicly, but we should deal w/it privately". If you're willing to misbehave in public, then you should be willing to be corrected in public.

 

Since she slagged the adults in her life in a very public way, I see nothing at all wrong w/Dad using the same public forum to correct her lies.

[Jennifer3141]

This would have been a much better story if a hot outback Aussie guy had done this. Maybe with a machete or blow darts.

 

Cowboys are so passe, so Cold War.

 

Why can't a dad in a kilt do something like this?? For the love of Latin, why can't some classical educating dad go nuts on his kid for us???

[LibraryLover]

Why can't a dad in a kilt do something like this?? For the love of Latin, why can't some classical educating dad go nuts on his kid for us???

 

 

:lol: Have you read the guy's posts? He's no slouch. He can spell and punctuate. I wonder what Latin sounds like with a Texan drawl?

[justamouse]

I don't think it was a matter of how he looked to a bunch of teens.

 

I think it was a multi faceted issue. One, she blocked her parents accessing her fb page, which she'd already been told was a no.

 

Two, she'd been warned previously about online behaviour.

 

Three, she LIED.

 

Four, she was told when she got her laptop back, that if she misbehaved w/it again, he'd 'put a bullet in it'...so he followed through w/his warning. Obviously taking it away for 3 mths previously did nothing to get through to her.

 

To me, posting something like that on fb is like standing in a crowded mall w/a bull horn, insulting and lying about her mom, dad, step mom and family friend.

 

I don't see the logic in, "Yes, she did this publicly, but we should deal w/it privately". If you're willing to misbehave in public, then you should be willing to be corrected in public.

 

Since she slagged the adults in her life in a very public way, I see nothing at all wrong w/Dad using the same public forum to correct her lies.

 

 

When they are 15, and prone to stupidity as 15 year olds are, a parent does not give an eye for an eye.

[Impish]

When they are 15, and prone to stupidity as 15 year olds are, a parent does not give an eye for an eye.

Sorry, but I think too many ppl don't give teens enough credit. There seems to be too much in the way of, "Well, they're just teens..." and protecting them from natural consequences.

 

Think about it...in 3 yrs she's an adult. If she ranted like this about her boss and job, she'd get her hiney fired...or even sued for libel/slander, since what she posted wasn't true.

[FaithManor]

Why can't a dad in a kilt do something like this?? For the love of Latin, why can't some classical educating dad go nuts on his kid for us???

 

 

Awesome! :D

 

As for the punishment, it wouldn't have been my first choice of how to handle it. But, dh says the girl took all security off her FB site so that slandering of her parents could be seen by everyone. Her dad works in IT and this is BAD. Dh's IT company actually has people who surf social sites to see what their employees are saying about the company and what is being said about their employees. In the reputation department, it can come back to haunt you. Unfortunately, had this continued to escalate and the little dear said something such as, "My dad said X about his boss, client, customer, etc.", the consequences can be severe. This is the price of the whole world being connected with the click of a button and when immature, self-serving individuals air dirty laundry online, it puts all parties in a bad situation.

 

So, I think that he could have made a better choice. But, I refuse to side against him. This child had multiple warnings and on top of that, she mentioned another person, unrelated to the family, in a rather demeaning tone/falsely indicated her position, and given that she didn't have any privacy settings, then no matter what, dad had a moral responsibility to set that straight publically.

 

My own niece slandered her parents, badly, online and accused them of all kinds of things including being worked like a servant at home. My brother got called into his boss's office and asked, "Do I need to call the cops on you? I don't let child abusers work for me." He could have lost his job. Guess who lost her internet privileges from the age of 14 until she left home at 17? Computers were locked down and my brother slept with the power cords because she was so sneaky.

 

For his own reputation, it would have been better if he had formulated a more moderate response for FB and left the disposal of the computer for private.

 

Faith

[Ester Maria]

I don't see the logic in, "Yes, she did this publicly, but we should deal w/it privately". If you're willing to misbehave in public, then you should be willing to be corrected in public.

There are levels to "public issues".

Posting something which can be seen by a few hundred people in your social network is one level of "doing it in public".

Uploading a video like this on Youtube, rather than uploading it or telling her off specifically in front of those same few hundred people, and making a scandal which gets into headlines internationally, is a whole 'nother level of "doing it in public".

The proportions of the reaction are not in line with the offense.

 

(And all of this is without even touching the subject of the destruction of the laptop - focusing exclusively on what is "public" about his reaction.)

[justamouse]

Sorry, but I think too many ppl don't give teens enough credit. There seems to be too much in the way of, "Well, they're just teens..." and protecting them from natural consequences.

 

Think about it...in 3 yrs she's an adult. If she ranted like this about her boss and job, she'd get her hiney fired...or even sued for libel/slander, since what she posted wasn't true.

 

And her mistake wouldn't be known around the world. NO one said she didn't deserve consequences. But to humiliate her (even if she is not NOW, that doesn't mean as it follows her and she is 46 and people are still finding that video and her kids...she might feel different) on a world stage is not a just consequence.

[Dustybug]

Sorry, but I think too many ppl don't give teens enough credit. There seems to be too much in the way of, "Well, they're just teens..." and protecting them from natural consequences.

 

Think about it...in 3 yrs she's an adult. If she ranted like this about her boss and job, she'd get her hiney fired...or even sued for libel/slander, since what she posted wasn't true.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

My grandmother was married at 14. While I certainly wouldnt' advocate for that now, it is a prime example of how the expectations for teenagers have changed over the years. Heck, when I was 16 I had a job that I worked at for 30 hours a week AFTER school and still had to come home and do chores and my homework. This reminds me of how my brother told me I was "too strict" because I require my 5 and 4 year old to make their own beds, clean their own room, and put away their own laundry. Kids will live up to the expectations that we set for them.

[LibraryLover]

And her mistake wouldn't be known around the world. NO one said she didn't deserve consequences. But to humiliate her (even if she is not NOW, that doesn't mean as it follows her and she is 46 and people are still finding that video and her kids...she might feel different) on a world stage is not a just consequence.

 

 

Well, that is the main problem. Cowboy didn't understand viral.

[justamouse]

:iagree::iagree:

 

My grandmother was married at 14. While I certainly wouldnt' advocate for that now, it is a prime example of how the expectations for teenagers have changed over the years. Heck, when I was 16 I had a job that I worked at for 30 hours a week AFTER school and still had to come home and do chores and my homework. This reminds me of how my brother told me I was "too strict" because I require my 5 and 4 year old to make their own beds, clean their own room, and put away their own laundry. Kids will live up to the expectations that we set for them.

 

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for

authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer

rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,

chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their

legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

 

Socrates said that.

 

Sorry, the good old days didn't make teenagers more responsible.

[justamouse]

Well, that is the main problem. Cowboy didn't understand viral.

 

Even being in IT. :glare:

[Reeciecup]

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with this. I think it was certainly a way to get the girl's attention, in a way that more standard punishments previously tried hadn't worked. Giving the computer away or taking it away just doesn't seem as final as destroying it.

 

I live in NC in the country, just like the man in the video. Gunshots are not an uncommon noise around here. My dh and son often go out in the back yard and target shoot. They especially love to shoot things like pumpkins, or watermelons or 2 liter bottles of water. I could totally see my dh taking a similar action if one of our children behaved in such a way.

[Dustybug]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for

authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer

rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,

chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their

legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

 

Socrates said that.

 

Sorry, the good old days didn't make teenagers more responsible.

 

 

I never said they were the "good old days" nor did I say that the time period made teenager more responsible. I said the EXPECTATIONS set on them did. Sure, there have been disrespectful teenagers all the way back to biblical times, but the outrage at a parent doing something about it is what is new to modern times, IMO.