I don't care if your dog is a "registered therapy dog"...

[Jean in Newcastle]

Our Home Depot does allow pets. Always I guess, I'm not sure since when. I see other dogs there, not just mine. The Wal Mart that allows pets is an older one, not a Super one with groceries, maybe that's why. I don't "sneak" him anywhere, like I said, I take him places he's allowed to go. That's what I don't understand, if pets are allowed, why be disgruntled that they are there?

 

I don't spend much time in places that aren't pet friendly, so you probably won't risk running into me. :)

 

The corporate policies of both Walmart and Home Depot allow service animals only. It may be that individual stores have allowed animals because they are afraid to confront customers but it is not allowed as a matter of policy.

 

And this is what I don't like. People bring their animals into places, putting the onus onto store personnel to police the policy or to risk alienating customers. Meanwhile, other customers like me, who wouldn't think of bringing my much loved pets in, are looking at this and are wondering why we are put in the position of having to complain before management will do something.

[mommaduck]

I finally found this for you. Hope it helps:

 

http://www.deltasociety.org/Page.aspx?pid=303

 

<snip>

 

Service Animals are legally defined (Americans With Disabilities Act, 1990) and are trained to meet the disability-related needs of their handlers who have disabilities. Federal laws protect the rights of individuals with disabilities to be accompanied by their service animals in public places. Service animals are not considered 'pets'.

Therapy Animals are not legally defined by federal law, but some states have laws defining therapy animals. They provide people with contact to animals, but are not limited to working with people who have disabilities. They are usually the personal pets of their handlers, and work with their handlers to provide services to others. Federal laws have no provisions for people to be accompanied by therapy animals in places of public accommodation that have "no pets" policies. Therapy animals usually are not service animals.

 

<snip>

 

Again, if I may stress since the term has been used over and over, a therapy dog is NOT a service/assistance dog and therefore does NOT have public access rights. To put it bluntly, it is pet that supposedly has a good temperment, therefore should be good to work in settings such as a hospital, 'Read with Rover' at the library, etc. A service/assistance dog has been specially trained to assist the person it is helping (blind, deaf, mobility, seizures, autism, etc.)

 

off my soapbox

 

Mom to three including a pretty spectacular 8 y.o. and her service dog :)

That's pretty clear. I'm betting a lot of businesses don't know the specifics.

[Joanne]

The corporate policies of both Walmart and Home Depot allow service animals only. It may be that individual stores have allowed animals because they are afraid to confront customers but it is not allowed as a matter of policy.

 

And this is what I don't like. People bring their animals into places, putting the onus onto store personnel to police the policy or to risk alienating customers. Meanwhile, other customers like me, who wouldn't think of bringing my much loved pets in, are looking at this and are wondering why we are put in the position of having to complain before management will do something.

 

This. I love animals. I just believe and have observed that people who love animals in ways that flow into bringing those animals everywhere tend to over-state the good behavior of their animal and also downplay the validity that some people don't like, want to be around, or value animals in places they consider inappropriate. (sorry for the unclear antecedents)

 

This topic is near to me; my DH tends towards bringing his dog everywhere (see earlier post about his xgf). I hate it, although I love the dog. I usually say a firm "no" when I am there, and he usually brings her when I am not around to say no. :lol::auto:

[Parrothead]

Again, the laws are different here.

 

Pets are not allowed at the Walmart here, nor the Home Depot. All stores I've ever seen have the signs on the door saying shirts have to be worn, shoes have to be worn, pets prohibited. Same w/restaraunt patios.

 

And as others have already said, pets are not children.

They are not allowed in HD or WM here either.

[Annie G]

The problem is that large businesses are afraid to say anything that might be interpreted as discrimination. I decorate cakes part time at W-mart. Our greeters are told if an animal is brought in to ask if it's a service animal and if the person says yes to let them through. Once they're past the greeter, nobody is allowed to question them. So what happens is the greeter asks if the animal is a service animal and the people say yes. Even if it's a tiny purse dog. The system is being abused and management knows it, but their hands are tied. Can you imagine the lawsuit if they offended a person by questioning them or worse yet, denying a dog that turns out to be a service dog?

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

The corporate policies of both Walmart and Home Depot allow service animals only. It may be that individual stores have allowed animals because they are afraid to confront customers but it is not allowed as a matter of policy.

 

And this is what I don't like. People bring their animals into places, putting the onus onto store personnel to police the policy or to risk alienating customers. Meanwhile, other customers like me, who wouldn't think of bringing my much loved pets in, are looking at this and are wondering why we are put in the position of having to complain before management will do something.

 

I didn't even look at your links because I'm sure you looked it up and are correct. Like I said, I guess it's different here. I live in a tiny town and the checkout girls usually pet my dog and/or offer him treats. I only speak of my own experience, not corporate policy.

 

Like I said earlier, we aren't likely to run into each other because I almost exclusively go to pet friendly places and that doesn't seem to be your cup of tea. :). Just tea, BTW not teA. ;)

[Forget-Me-Not]

I've noticed more and more examples of people abusing the service dog concept. These dogs are so ill behaved that I don't believe for a minute they are trained service dogs. Anyone can sew a vest for a dog, and I think some people do just that. :glare:

 

Yep. My DH is a family practitioner. A couple of weeks ago, someone brought their 'service animal' to an appt. It was a pit bull who proceeded to growl and bark at the other patients in the waiting room :glare:. The person was informed that they had to remove their dog from the office (and I think they were okay law-wise with that because the dog was obviously misbehaving).

 

I agree, it's become way out of hand. For starters, I think we need to make a determination between 'companion animals' and 'service animals'. The first might require some sort of a form or a note from a physician so that you can keep the pet in an otherwise pet-free rental (or whatever). Doesn't mean the animal needs to accompany you and ride in the baby seat while you shop for tomatoes. The second should be licensed through some sort of process--pass a behavior test, require a physicians note, etc.

But I don't run the world, or even the USA, so I wasn't consulted :tongue_smilie:

[Denisemomof4]

Dogs may not be allowed in Walmart, but apparently Buddy, my greyhound, decided to rebel. I opened the back of my car once and he ran out. I had no idea which direction he ran. We were in a different state and at a shopping plaza on a highway. I ran to the Walmart store front and began to panic, no Buddy in sight. I honestly though I'd never see him again. As I was standing there and asking people if they saw a greyhound anywhere, something as quick as a bolt of lightning ran past the front doors of Walmart, INSIDE the store. :svengo: I ran inside and saw my Buddy WHIZ throughh the women's department, clothing rack shaking, people yelling, a crowd chasing him. I was mortified. He ran down the candy aisle and got caught. EVERYONE was staring at me and laughing. I was absolutely MORTIFIED. I apologized profusely and got out of that store as quickly as I could.

 

I watched the news for a few days because I was certain it would show the surveillance footage on it. It never did.

 

I will never forget that.:lol::lol::lol:

[hsmom27]

Our service dog organization required us to spend 2 weeks (including weekends) training with DS and his service dog before we were taken for public testing. We had to show complete control over the dog (without the use of a leash) while maneuvering through a variety of crowded situations both indoors and out. We have to get the dog re-certified YEARLY. We are required to use our organizations harnesses and identification whenever the dog is working. There is, however, no required certification process. That means that anyone can claim their animal is a service dog. But when people with misrepresent their pets (even mostly well behaved pets) it damages the reputation of real service animals.

[lilypoo]

When it barks and snarls at everyone in the laundromat, and starts peeing on the rolling baskets, it's time to take the thing home. :glare:

 

I haven't had time to read all the replies, but thought I'd mention that therapy dogs aren't allowed public access rights under the ADA. Even my dog trainer thinks they are though, so it's a common misconception. I'm owner-training a psych dog currently and if she were to ever be a nuisance, I would be so outta there. Interestingly, dogs in training aren't technically guaranteed public access, so I always specify when I enter a store/restaurant that she's in training (as her vest says) and I give them the option as to whether or not she will be allowed.

 

Also, formal training programs, formal public access tests and formal certifications are not required under the ADA. They are optional but I understand why people seek them. Referring to US.

Edited January 26, 2012 by lilypoo

[Jean in Newcastle]

Other than outdoor places like dog parks;), I take Libby to pet stores. Usually it is because I need her to try something on. I do not take Rocky - he is a wonderful dog but is not well behaved at all.

[Audrey]

The corporate policies of both Walmart and Home Depot allow service animals only. It may be that individual stores have allowed animals because they are afraid to confront customers but it is not allowed as a matter of policy.

 

And this is what I don't like. People bring their animals into places, putting the onus onto store personnel to police the policy or to risk alienating customers. Meanwhile, other customers like me, who wouldn't think of bringing my much loved pets in, are looking at this and are wondering why we are put in the position of having to complain before management will do something.

 

 

Another thing is the inequality with which this type of thing is enforced. People think they can bring their little pocket dogs everywhere because they're small. So what? It's still a dog.

 

If I were to have brought our old Elmo out and about I'm pretty sure there would be complaints. He was a GP/St.B/Newfie cross and probably the largest dog I've ever seen. His back came up to my waist and I'm 6' tall. I'll bet that if I'd needed him for a "therapy dog" people would complain even though he had the mildest demeanor and was a generally quiet dog. Sure, the sight of him would make most 4 year old pee their pants in fear, but what the heck? If I'd NEEDED him, that wouldn't matter, right?

 

Well, I call BS on the self-declared therapy dog crapola. I'm glad they don't have that ability to do that here, or I'd have to find myself another Elmo and trot around with that big old monster and see how the little purse puppies' "mommies" like that. :glare:

[5kidsforME]

Another thing is the inequality with which this type of thing is enforced. People think they can bring their little pocket dogs everywhere because they're small. So what? It's still a dog.

 

If I were to have brought our old Elmo out and about I'm pretty sure there would be complaints. He was a GP/St.B/Newfie cross and probably the largest dog I've ever seen. His back came up to my waist and I'm 6' tall. I'll bet that if I'd needed him for a "therapy dog" people would complain even though he had the mildest demeanor and was a generally quiet dog. Sure, the sight of him would make most 4 year old pee their pants in fear, but what the heck? If I'd NEEDED him, that wouldn't matter, right?

 

Well, I call BS on the self-declared therapy dog crapola. I'm glad they don't have that ability to do that here, or I'd have to find myself another Elmo and trot around with that big old monster and see how the little purse puppies' "mommies" like that. :glare:

 

 

EXACTLY!!

 

That's it, I'm pi$$ed that my big dogs are being discriminated against. Isn't there a law against this injustice?

[weaver_67579]

Yes. Which sort of makes me wonder why Weaver is trying to prove Imp wrong. Weren't we having a friendly discussion here?

 

trying to prove her wrong. I was amazed to be thinking Canada was waaaay over the top butting into personal property rights and stuff...

 

here is the quote I was referring to- it says public places not places that serve food-major stores... I took it at face value. I do still wonder if private business owners can allow them up there. Like I said somewhere else-I have several friends that have/have had businesses that had dogs (or other animals) in the store or business and/or allowed people to bring them in... hmmm

 

 

Well, first off, here, the dog would not be allowed in any of the places you listed, with the sole exception of PetSmart or similar. Only working Service dogs are allowed in public places.

Edited January 26, 2012 by weaver_67579

[weaver_67579]

Here is my question:

 

Who is liable when the dog bites someone or is injured itself (in a random laundry room accident)?

 

The business for allowing it?

The owner for insisting it?

 

Except for the fact that I hate insurance and hate people ruining GOOD things (service animals), perhaps there should be a bond required for people to have animals in public places as a helper.

 

You know, a really low bond for the trained ones, and a high bond for the non trained ones and fine for not having one (bond)-- perhaps this will deterr the pets going everywhere.

 

I, too, do not like pets everywhere. I don't think it is good for the animals to be taken everywhere. A lot of people that have teacup dogs treat them as children and they are poorly trained. Pets are pets, not children OR fashion accessories.

 

Lara

 

reputable organizations insure the dogs while they are working-otherwise the owner's insurance would be what covers it most likely. The owner of the business would most likely be sued. I do not know of the insurance needs of service animals.

[melmichigan]

A therapy dog is not a service dog and not covered under ADA, businesses need to step up and draw a line already.

[weaver_67579]

I finally found this for you. Hope it helps:

 

http://www.deltasociety.org/Page.aspx?pid=303

 

<snip>

 

Service Animals are legally defined (Americans With Disabilities Act, 1990) and are trained to meet the disability-related needs of their handlers who have disabilities. Federal laws protect the rights of individuals with disabilities to be accompanied by their service animals in public places. Service animals are not considered 'pets'.

Therapy Animals are not legally defined by federal law, but some states have laws defining therapy animals. They provide people with contact to animals, but are not limited to working with people who have disabilities. They are usually the personal pets of their handlers, and work with their handlers to provide services to others. Federal laws have no provisions for people to be accompanied by therapy animals in places of public accommodation that have "no pets" policies. Therapy animals usually are not service animals.

 

<snip>

 

Again, if I may stress since the term has been used over and over, a therapy dog is NOT a service/assistance dog and therefore does NOT have public access rights. To put it bluntly, it is pet that supposedly has a good temperment, therefore should be good to work in settings such as a hospital, 'Read with Rover' at the library, etc. A service/assistance dog has been specially trained to assist the person it is helping (blind, deaf, mobility, seizures, autism, etc.)

 

off my soapbox

 

Mom to three including a pretty spectacular 8 y.o. and her service dog :)

 

While they are different than service dogs in job description and do not have the same ability to enter most all places, a Therapy dog is more than just "supposed to have good temperment" All of them that I know and have known (dozens of them) go through a testing process with the handler (the team is tested -so that lady in the op would clearly not have passed)to be registered as a therapy dog by one of a few therapy dog (or in the case of Delta Pet Partners-you at least used to be able to test with other species) organizations. My 4 registerd therapy dogs were certainly held to a higher standard than the average pet. For the organization my dogs have been registered with, they had to exhibit basic obedience and household manners in all situations including situations like we would be visiting-nursing home, or around a lot of medical equipment for example, I have to turn in proof of vet exam with certain tests, vaccines... yearly and follow an extensive list of rules while the dogs are working. I have been through 4 therapy dog classes and there were dogs that did not pass due to failing some or another needed activity.

 

by this I am not meaning that I think therapy dogs should be allowed in my local grocery store. I do not and wouldn't take mine there. I am also not saying they are the same thing or live up to the same standard. However-the person in the op clearly did not have a therapy dog or service dog. I disagree with people that liken a therapy dog to any old dog on the street. They also have special training and testing to become what they are. A dog with the temperment that the op described would never be knowingly allowed to be registered as a therapy dog in either of the organizations I have been a member of. the service dog organization that I knew a bunch of puppy raisers for (our kennel club offered free obedience classes for them-so I instructed many over the years) would take a dog like that out of service. i know one dog that came out of service due to becoming too protective of the owner and acting agressively toward other dogs because of it. He came back to his puppy raiser-a friend of mine.

 

off of my soapbax too;)

[weaver_67579]

A therapy dog is not a service dog and not covered under ADA, businesses need to step up and draw a line already.

 

I'm still thinking that if I want a dog to be able to come into my business (as long as it doesn't break some health code or such) then why not? I should also be able to say I don't want whatever thing I don't want in my business too-it should go both ways-like no shoes, no shirt , no service... you would be free to not patronize the business and I would be free to take my dog-or not. This is where I seem to have a problem... understanding where people think it is ok to tell a private business owner who/what to allow in their private business as long as it doesn't break any laws/ordinances... You can vote with your feet or $$$.

[fhjmom]

I just have two things to add:

 

Just because a dog is small does not mean it isn't a legitimate, certified service dog. I have a friend that is a very petite woman who received a service dog for her deafness through a certifying service dog agency. The first dog they placed with her was a larger dog, like a lab or something. She wasn't comfortable with such a large dog so they gave her a papillon instead. He has the tiniest little service dog vest I have ever seen.

 

Also, speaking up forTejasMamacita, she lives in Central Texas and there are several communities there that are just very dog friendly. The whole local culture and business environment is open to dogs (and most pets in general). It is different than other areas and it is not usual to see a large number of people with their dogs a vast majority of the time. I am not an especially dog-tolerant person in general even though I do love pets in appropriate places, but I understand that in those areas, I will encounter dogs in places that I wouldn't typically see them otherwise.

[gardenmom5]

I'd have to find myself another Elmo and trot around with that big old monster and see how the little purse puppies' "mommies" like that. :glare:

 

I'd actually like to see the purse puppies mommies reaction to that ;). maybe their little darling purse puppies would do something so their mommies could no longer live in denial it's AN ANIMAL they're always hauling around.

 

I had a german shephard - wonderful, sweet, well behaved dog. some little twerp of a poddle took a decided dislike to her and decided to bark up a storm and pull on it's owners leash trying to reach her. My GS took one look at that poddle with the "what are you going on about?" expression, and then pretty much ignored the lap dog.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

 

Also, speaking up forTejasMamacita, she lives in Central Texas and there are several communities there that are just very dog friendly. The whole local culture and business environment is open to dogs (and most pets in general). It is different than other areas and it is not usual to see a large number of people with their dogs a vast majority of the time. I am not an especially dog-tolerant person in general even though I do love pets in appropriate places, but I understand that in those areas, I will encounter dogs in places that I wouldn't typically see them otherwise.

 

Thanks so much for this. I was starting to think I had slipped into my very own Twilight Zone. :tongue_smilie: I didn't' think I was lying, but now I'm sure of it. :lol:

[Iucounu]

I finally found this for you. Hope it helps:

 

http://www.deltasociety.org/Page.aspx?pid=303

That page is unfortunately a bit misleading and inaccurate. The person who wrote it is apparently confused between Emotional Support Animals, which are defined and supported by federal law, and dogs which provide therapeutic services to people other than their owners (which may be referred to as "therapy dogs").

[Hikin' Mama]

But I agree with Mergath. I absolutely love dogs and have two of my own that I treat like my kids, but it irritates me when people take their dogs into stores with them. I don't mean Petsmart, I mean Target, Michael's, etc. I would also not want one in the laundry mat when I was there. Of course, true service dogs are the exception.

[zimom]

That page is unfortunately a bit misleading and inaccurate. The person who wrote it is apparently confused between Emotional Support Animals, which are defined and supported by federal law, and dogs which provide therapeutic services to people other than their owners (which may be referred to as "therapy dogs").

 

I agree this page is misleading, and it is a little out of date. I was simply trying to find a good explanation of the difference between therapy dogs and service dogs, and since that web page is from the Delta Society, thought it was a good link.

 

However, emotional support dogs are no longer permitted public public access per the new guidelines. (see my very first link) only psychiatric dogs.

[Iucounu]

I agree this page is misleading, and it is a little out of date. I was simply trying to find a good explanation of the difference between therapy dogs and service dogs, and since that web page is from the Delta Society, thought it was a good link.

 

However, emotional support dogs are no longer permitted public public access per the new guidelines. (see my very first link) only psychiatric dogs.

Yes, and to the best of my knowledge they never really were-- though I think plenty of pet and ESA owners took advantage of vagueness and a misconception that they were. Hence this thread. :)

[zimom]

While they are different than service dogs in job description and do not have the same ability to enter most all places, a Therapy dog is more than just "supposed to have good temperment" All of them that I know and have known (dozens of them) go through a testing process with the handler (the team is tested -so that lady in the op would clearly not have passed)to be registered as a therapy dog by one of a few therapy dog (or in the case of Delta Pet Partners-you at least used to be able to test with other species) organizations. My 4 registerd therapy dogs were certainly held to a higher standard than the average pet. For the organization my dogs have been registered with, they had to exhibit basic obedience and household manners in all situations including situations like we would be visiting-nursing home, or around a lot of medical equipment for example, I have to turn in proof of vet exam with certain tests, vaccines... yearly and follow an extensive list of rules while the dogs are working. I have been through 4 therapy dog classes and there were dogs that did not pass due to failing some or another needed

off of my soapbax too;)

 

You are right and I apologize that I did not explain it near as well as you did. I guess what I meant and did not say was that a therapy dog is usually a pet first and IF it has the right temperament, then the owner can go through the necessary steps to have it become a therapy dog. However, it usually is still a pet first and foremost, it was not raised for that job and does not have public access rights.

 

Many service dogs are bred and raised for their job from day one. If they do manage to possess all the qualities they need and become a service dog, their primary "function" is to be a service dog.

[zimom]

Yes, and to the best of my knowledge they never really were-- though I think plenty of pet and ESA owners took advantage of vagueness and a misconception that they were. Hence this thread. :)

 

Well I think the ESA was definately a big abuse, and one of the reasons the guidelines were recently rewritten to make it clear they were not covered. The other was the fact that only DOGS are now considered service animals (and horses in very isolated cases), again probably because of the same ESA abuse, folks calling snakes, rats, pigs their service, ESA.

 

I personally think we need much more regulation, but I don't rule the world. :)

Edited January 26, 2012 by zimom

[mommaduck]

Thanks so much for this. I was starting to think I had slipped into my very own Twilight Zone. :tongue_smilie: I didn't' think I was lying, but now I'm sure of it. :lol:

I figured you probably were in an area that was more open to it culturally :) In that case, it's not unexpected where you are. In many other areas, people would expect a dog to stay home, or in the car (which I believe could actually be dangerous in your area?), and so feelings would be different :) :grouphug: