s/o waiter/waitress tips...rant

[Tigger]

My complaint is that the general consensus is that they don't make even minimum wage so you better tip well to make sure that they don't go home making pennies- but in CA they do make at least real minimum wage.

 

Servers make minimum wage no matter what state they live in and work - their hourly pay is less than minimum wage and tips bring the hourly to or above minimum wage BUT if tips do not bring the wages up to minimum wage in a pay period, the employer does have to pay them the difference between what was earned (server wage + tips) and minimum wage, so they will make minimum wage.

 

In CA (and some other states) there is no convoluted system set up, servers are paid minimum wage + tips; in other states it's server wage + tips unless that doesn't meet minimum wage, then the employer pays the difference to bring it up to minimum wage. So in all states they do make at least (federal) minimum wage.

[Aelwydd]

As far as my comment about servers not needing an education. Yes, it bothers me that college grads leave their profession of choice and skill because they can make more money doing a job that doesn't require further education - yet I (and everyone I know) has been taught that that job doesn't even make minimum wage... yet it does (I feel like I have been lied to). I'm not saying that they don't deserve the money they earn or that they shouldn't be making that much money. If they don't like what they make, or it is too demanding- that doesn't have to be the job they take on. If they had a set hourly wage from the biz owner, then there would be no question. They make x/hour or a salary. They can make the choice on if that choice is a good option for them.

I'm just going to be blunt and say this: people aren't leaving their professions of choice to up and become servers because of the big money. College grads are working as servers because their day jobs either laid them off, forced them to take a pay-cut (or get laid off), or they simply cannot find a job in their profession.

 

And again, they aren't "making that much money." If you check out the link I sent you, the vast majority don't come close to making a liveable wage. You're talking about "buying a house." That's so outrageous.

 

Those of us who have actually worked in the field, or are close to those that do, will tell you that just being able to afford rent, food, clothing, and medical care is what these college-grads-cum-servers are aspiring to. Buying a house is so far removed from their reality, it's almost insulting. And beyond that, do you really believe the majority of servers in your state a, have a college degree, and b, are choosing to work as servers because it's just so lucrative?

 

Really?

[Aelwydd]

:lol:

 

The only server I know personally at the moment can't even afford to buy a home with her husband (also employed FT), so they are forced to rent. The other server I knew wouldn't go back to that job unless truly desperate.

 

You mean, desperate as in, "we-lost-our-75K-a-year-as-migrant-workers-job"?

 

I don't know how it is in other states, but in Texas, illegal migrant workers are so totally cleaning up. They even get health care for free (I always hear about it on the radio).

[Tigger]

My true rant is that I think establishments should simply include the cost of the tip/service/etc. in the cost of the product. Simple enough.

 

It isn't that simple - employers only have to pay minimum wage, if suddenly it was that servers would always be paid minimum wage, I seriously doubt you'd have all these employers paying the "minimum + what can be earned in tips" because tips fluctuate hourly, they fluctuate by meal type, they fluctuate by order - some order appetizers, others don't; some have alcohol, others don't and it fluctuates because not everyone leaves a tip, and others are generous, with most averaging a % of total - so how exactly to you level the playing field when the field is already level and minimum wage is the minimum for any job in the US, even for servers who earn less than minimum, who make minimum if their tips don't bring them to that hourly wage?

 

Or do you just think minimum wage is sufficient since the job doesn't require a college degree?

[LibraryLover]

Come on, don't you know the McMansions are NOT owned by servers, they're owned by fast food employees, hence the name.

 

You really should check your sources before posting. :tongue_smilie:;)

 

You're so right. :(

 

Have you ever wondered why these developments weren't coined Burger Kingdoms instead?

 

I've lost sleep over that one.

[renmew]

Servers make minimum wage no matter what state they live in and work - their hourly pay is less than minimum wage and tips bring the hourly to or above minimum wage BUT if tips do not bring the wages up to minimum wage in a pay period, the employer does have to pay them the difference between what was earned (server wage + tips) and minimum wage, so they will make minimum wage.

 

In CA (and some other states) there is no convoluted system set up, servers are paid minimum wage + tips; in other states it's server wage + tips unless that doesn't meet minimum wage, then the employer pays the difference to bring it up to minimum wage. So in all states they do make at least (federal) minimum wage.

 

 

In California, servers may make min wage plus tips, but it doesn't work out that way. They are taxed on their tips, and many places don't actually ask you what your tips are, they just apply a guestimate, and subtract those taxes.

 

So, when a table did not leave a tip, I still had to pay taxes on the assumed tip I never got. Those minimum wage paychecks were actually super small, because the taxes from your tips were also subtracted from them.

[sassenach]

If you don't want to tip, eat at McDonalds. The manager was "offended for you" because his job is to kiss the customers rear. He actually thought you were a cheapskate and a waste of his time. The next time you go in, he'll remember you and stop by your table to kiss up some more. Then the server who gets you will moan because she'll know in advanced that she's not going to be tipped well. But she'll smile anyways.

[Happy]

Can we remember there are a lot of jobs that are physically demanding, thankless, and have components of dealing with the public?

 

We don't tip all of them. Many of them don't have great benefits either....but the business owners are required to pay them minimum wage.

[Mrs Mungo]

Totally agree. This thread has made me so angry. People talk about how wrong it is for folks to feel "entitled," well to me, this is one area I agree. People should not feel entitled to go to a restaurant, and get service without paying the laborer what his labor is worth.

 

It's unconscionable to me--demanding service while denigrating the labor of those doing the work.

 

I tend to agree. A server job in an upscale restaurant carries completely different requirements and expectations from a McDonald's counter service job. Maybe they technically require the same level of education, but expectations are different. Servers deserve more than minimum wage.

 

Frankly, I prefer a culture without the tipping expectations - where the service is included into the price, period. If you want to go an extra mile and reward the service, so be it, but you are not expected, because the price is calculated with the service. Plus it is easier than do the mental math all the time, keep adding 20%, then make sure to round it to a higher price than to a lower price lest you appear stingy, etc. I often feel like saying, "Just list to me the full price, everything included.", but of course, one cannot say that because you again appear stingy and whatnot. So I keep doing the math. Sigh.

 

I disagree. This is one area in which I prefer the American way of doing things. Service in Europe is ridiculous. Want another soda or water? Ready to pay your bill? You might actually have to go find your server in the kitchen.

 

Well, service in areas with an expectation of tipping is usually superior.

 

I agree.

[Mrs Mungo]

Can we remember there are a lot of jobs that are physically demanding, thankless, and have components of dealing with the public?

 

We don't tip all of them. Many of them don't have great benefits either....but the business owners are required to pay them minimum wage.

 

Most physically demanding jobs pay more than minimum wage. Yes, when I worked in customer service for near minimum wage I dealt with the public. But, I rarely had to deal with them for an hour or hour and a half. I rarely had more interaction with them than checking them out.

[Parrothead]

There is a lot of anger and snark in this thread. I get that the OP (and probably others) was misguided about how the restaurant business really works, but how about a gentle lesson in the reality of it instead of snide comments and ridicule.

 

I for one had no idea that bus boys were required to share tips. Do generally make minimum wage or less? If they don't why not? I bet most people don't know they should leave a tip for their server and for their bus boy.

 

Who makes minimum wage and who doesn't is not something everyone is aware of. Generally a person goes to work, works 40 hours and gets paid a set wage for the number of hours they work. Anything else if foreign unless one has been in the position to not work full time. Even then most people who work part time get paid a set minimum wage.

 

To an outsider it does appear as if a server gets paid quite a lot. After reading this thread I get that isn't necessarily the case. But after all of the anger and snark I'm not really endeared to the plight of servers.

[Aelwydd]

There is a lot of anger and snark in this thread.

 

I get what you're saying, and I've calmed down. However, you read the OP's post as "misguided," whereas it came across to me with quite a bit of condescension, which is why I took offense. I'm not even a server, but the tone and words of the OP's post were very insulting, IMO.

 

ETA: The OP's post was not the only one I took serious issue with. So my anger was not merely in response to her comments, but the overall attitude about servers. I tried hard not to return insult-for-insult, but it's hard not to snark back when you feel like someone is speaking in a demeaning way.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Aelwydd

[Parrothead]

It isn't that simple - employers only have to pay minimum wage, if suddenly it was that servers would always be paid minimum wage, I seriously doubt you'd have all these employers paying the "minimum + what can be earned in tips" because tips fluctuate hourly, they fluctuate by meal type, they fluctuate by order - some order appetizers, others don't; some have alcohol, others don't and it fluctuates because not everyone leaves a tip, and others are generous, with most averaging a % of total - so how exactly to you level the playing field when the field is already level and minimum wage is the minimum for any job in the US, even for servers who earn less than minimum, who make minimum if their tips don't bring them to that hourly wage?

 

Or do you just think minimum wage is sufficient since the job doesn't require a college degree?

Well, we've already heard from a Canadian that it works in Canada that servers are paid minimum wage and tips are not expected to make up the shortage of what the restaurant pays. Quite possibly it works that way in other countries. Surly if it works that way in other places it could conceivably work in the US that way.

 

The biggest hurdle I see is actually getting the American people to pay a couple dollars for a meal and getting the corporate level people to agree that paying a living wage is better all the way around.

[Parrothead]

I get what you're saying, and I've calmed down. However, you read the OP's post as "misguided," whereas it came across to me with quite a bit of condescension, which is why I took offense. I'm not even a server, but the tone and words of the OP's post were very insulting, IMO.

 

ETA: The OP's post was not the only one I took serious issue with. So my anger was not merely in response to her comments, but the overall attitude about servers. I tried hard not to return insult-for-insult, but it's hard not to snark back when you feel like someone is speaking in a demeaning way.

No, actually I didn't read the OP as misguided. I read a lot of frustration and resentment in Holly's post. I thought it was a badly stated but legitimate question about the restaurant industry.

[Sun]

:iagree: They bust their BUTTS. They are on their feet for HOURS. Their feet hurt. Their backs hurt. They are carrying things, hustling non-stop, catering to rude, whiny, demanding people, all with a smile on their faces, sharing their tips with other people, sometimes having their tips stolen by busboys or other waitresses, often dealing with cheap people who don't even leave a respectable tip, cleaning up other peoples' messes, sometimes dealing with jerk managers on power trips, working odd hours that make them miss all sorts of stuff at home (I'm just going by my sister in law's experiences here...) and if they're lucky enough to make a middle class wage, which certainly isn't really the case around here... that would upset you? Really?

 

:iagree: 100%. The truth is that those of us who live in the US or Canada live in a tipping culture. We may wish it weren't so; we may enjoy it when we travel to Australia or Europe where tipping is not a requirement. That doesn't change the fact that when we are at a restaurant in the US or Canada, the server expects a tip and is, in fact, charged income tax based on a an expected tip percentage.

 

I also live in a state where servers make minimum wage before tips. In fact, my state has the highest minimum wage in the country, more than $9 per hour. I still tip at least 20% for reasonable service and more for really good service. It doesn't bother me at all that my servers are making a more reasonable wage. In fact, I'm glad I live in a state where servers do make at least minimum wage because I find the alternative appalling.

[Sputterduck]

I have to agree that in places where tips are expected the service is better. Mexico has a huge, huge tipping culture. Some people here only make tips and nothing else. Customer service here is also amazing. They actually run to open the door when they see you coming. They run to get the door when you leave. But I love tipping and I love customer service. I have tipped 100 percent before and I tip 50 percent frequently enough to great service. I always tip the grocery kids and the parking lot guys because, apparently, they have no income besides tips. I think it's horrible to give them zero wages, but that's how it is here.

 

If I am not prepared to tip well if the customer service is superb, I consider myself unable to eat out.

[hsmom]

I have worked as a server for years always have. Never made a great living and worked my butt off to make what I did. Now the jobs are advertised as minimum wage plus tips, that means they pay you so much and your tips bring you up to minimum wage. I have yet to find a place that actually paid me minimum wage in a check usually they pay half of minimum wage or even less and count your tips as the rest.

 

As for making $20-30 and hour, yes it is possible. BUT you work for maybe 2-3 hours at this and the rest of the day is maybe $5 and hour. Or you might be lucky and have a full day that you make $20 an hour awesome the for you since maybe your phone bill will get paid that week. Then hopefully the next day you will make enough to pay another bill or buy groceries.

 

Not everyone tips the 18% or more. Most think $4 for a family of 8 is enough after you juggled the 4 kids who cannot have this on their plate make a huge mess, needs a refill every 3 minutes, and a mom who says this is not right, and a dad who complains about this and that and a baby screaming, non stop needing something. While you still have 6-10 other tables waiting on you to help them. But since the one table you have here is being such a mess making it hard for you to get to the rest of your tables and make their meal worth being there. Well guess what the table of 8 who you made the $4 off of made it where the rest of the tables felt left out and guess what the waitress got stiffed on some of them and just as little on others. So, for me to hear someone complain because of a tip is very very upsetting. These men and women work their butts and everything else off with a small hope that you will hit each customer just right to get a few more dollars that day.

 

Also if it was not for these under educated people or even over educated people serving you, you would not have that option to go to eat now would you.

[Sun]

Well, we've already heard from a Canadian that it works in Canada that servers are paid minimum wage and tips are not expected to make up the shortage of what the restaurant pays. Quite possibly it works that way in other countries. Surly if it works that way in other places it could conceivably work in the US that way.

 

Yes, but just like in states with only one minimum wage, the norm in Canada is to tip 15% at a bare minimum with 20% being a more usual amount. Servers in both countries partially base their decision on whether to become or continue to be a restaurant server on the expected income generated by tips.

[Julie Smith]

They make regular minimum wage here in Ontario, Canada, which is currently $10.25. I was a server before I finished my schooling. The money was decent. I worked in so-so to o.k. type places. If you worked in a nice place, or did some bartending, the money could be quite nice.

 

I'm all for generous tipping in places where the base pay is around $2 or $3. It's more silly to expect the identical level of tipping here.

 

:) Thank you for chiming in. I find that the tipping threads always make one feel quilty for not tipping enough. But they don't take into consideration areas where the servers are paid 10.25 an hour before tips. Also in Canada there is not the same need for health insurance.

 

I have never heard of major complaints from Ontario servers.

[Dustybug]

I'm just going to be blunt and say this: people aren't leaving their professions of choice to up and become servers because of the big money. College grads are working as servers because their day jobs either laid them off, forced them to take a pay-cut (or get laid off), or they simply cannot find a job in their profession.

 

And again, they aren't "making that much money." If you check out the link I sent you, the vast majority don't come close to making a liveable wage. You're talking about "buying a house." That's so outrageous.

 

Those of us who have actually worked in the field, or are close to those that do, will tell you that just being able to afford rent, food, clothing, and medical care is what these college-grads-cum-servers are aspiring to. Buying a house is so far removed from their reality, it's almost insulting. And beyond that, do you really believe the majority of servers in your state a, have a college degree, and b, are choosing to work as servers because it's just so lucrative?

 

Really?

 

:iagree:

 

If you don't want to tip, eat at McDonalds. The manager was "offended for you" because his job is to kiss the customers rear. He actually thought you were a cheapskate and a waste of his time. The next time you go in, he'll remember you and stop by your table to kiss up some more. Then the server who gets you will moan because she'll know in advanced that she's not going to be tipped well. But she'll smile anyways.

 

:iagree:Sadly, this is very true. You don't know how many times I've seen a manager smile in a customers face and then step into the kitchen and say all sorts of profanities about them.

 

I have to agree that in places where tips are expected the service is better. Mexico has a huge, huge tipping culture. Some people here only make tips and nothing else. Customer service here is also amazing. They actually run to open the door when they see you coming. They run to get the door when you leave. But I love tipping and I love customer service. I have tipped 100 percent before and I tip 50 percent frequently enough to great service. I always tip the grocery kids and the parking lot guys because, apparently, they have no income besides tips. I think it's horrible to give them zero wages, but that's how it is here.

 

If I am not prepared to tip well if the customer service is superb, I consider myself unable to eat out.

 

Recently, we needed some minor work done on our van and the last time we went to a big chain auto repair place, they botched the job and then gave US attitude when we expected them to fix it. DH took the van to this small Mexican family owned repair shop down the road and was BLOWN AWAY by the level of customer service. He has vowed to go back there for ANY other car work we need. :D

[Parrothead]

I have worked as a server for years always have. Never made a great living and worked my butt off to make what I did. Now the jobs are advertised as minimum wage plus tips, that means they pay you so much and your tips bring you up to minimum wage. I have yet to find a place that actually paid me minimum wage in a check usually they pay half of minimum wage or even less and count your tips as the rest.

 

IMO I think this is just wrong. I'm not ready to go out and become an activist for the food service industry, but I'd vote yes on a measure that servers get paid minimum wage period, and anything they get it tips is theirs. I sincerely believe that ought to be the way it works. And that good service is tipped more than bad service.

 

On the other hand I do kind of like the way Sputterduck described service in Mexico. It would definitely discourage the server who is having a bad day from slamming one's plate down in front of one and stalking off never to be seen again unless he/she is chasing one out the front door wondering why he/she wasn't tipped (well).

[Aelwydd]

No, actually I didn't read the OP as misguided. I read a lot of frustration and resentment in Holly's post. I thought it was a badly stated but legitimate question about the restaurant industry.

 

Ok, well I just used the word you used to describe it in your post. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or anything.

 

I wouldn't have had an issue with an open question about the pay structure of servers. I just didn't like how it was framed at all (but you know this already) with what I felt was highly judgmental language.

[QueenCat]

I think adding 10% on for good service should be acceptable.

 

 

That was the norm for good service when I waitressed 25 years ago. I occasionally got more but that was rare. I tipped out to the busboy but no others. Wasn't required but they helped those more if we treated them well.

[elegantlion]

There is a lot of anger and snark in this thread. I get that the OP (and probably others) was misguided about how the restaurant business really works, but how about a gentle lesson in the reality of it instead of snide comments and ridicule.

.

 

Honestly, it wasn't so much the question as the inference that they don't deserve to earn that much because it doesn't require further education. I'm sorry, but that attitude ticks me off. Just because you don't need a degree to wait tables, it takes a certain personality and experience to be a good server. It's physically hard work, it's requires a backbone to deal with all the customer service issues.

 

I've seen that attitude plenty in my dh's former occupation as well. It's an invisible ceiling some people try to put on people who don't have a college education, even in professions where most of the training is on the job or when experience counts.

 

I'm not saying the OP feels this way, I saying that was what I inferred by reading her post.

[Parrothead]

Ok, well I just used the word you used to describe it in your post. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth or anything.

 

I wouldn't have had an issue with an open question about the pay structure of servers. I just didn't like how it was framed at all (but you know this already) with what I felt was highly judgmental language.

Gotcha. :)

[Anne in CA]

There are several restaurants in the Portland area that not only make every server pay a bartender, barista, hostess, and bathroom cleaner out of the gross total of their sales regardless of tips, but take the credit company charge out of their paycheck.

 

Even in Oregon where servers do make minimum wage most chain restaurant servers do not make more than $10 an hour because chains like Pacific Coast Restaurants, to be specific, are so far into the pocket of every server that really good professional people do not work at those chains.

 

If you don't want to tip 20%, please don't rip off your server, eat at independently owned establishments. I am begging you. In this economy no servers are getting rich in Oregon for sure. I know this as I work for one of the only large hotels in the area that does pay well, and we are scraping rock bottom.

[Jennifer3141]

Holly, hey how 'bout if I determine how much you are allowed to make? Would you be comfortable with that?

 

I don't think your high $ service oriented business is really worth what you are charging, so I'm only going to pay you 80% of the price you set. After you've done the work.

 

Put simply, no, I don't get where you are coming from...

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I was a server at a pizza joint for a couple of years part time. I made decent money but I hustled my fanny and worked very hard to not get the orders mixed up.

 

I actually LOVED serving. You get instant feedback as to how you're doing. I'd love to try it in a fine dining restauarant but then I'm worried it would take away the fun of going there. :lol:

 

When I waitressed, we were not paid minimum wage and we had to tip out the bartender and the busboys at the end of the night. What I made totally depended upon when I waitressed. The after church crowd on Sundays were the worst tipping bunch. They had to fight us all to work Sundays. The Thursday night sports guys were the best, followed closely by Saturday. If you could stay away until 2:00 on a Thursday and make it to your regular job Friday morning, you could clean up!

[Parrothead]

Honestly, it wasn't so much the question as the inference that they don't deserve to earn that much because it doesn't require further education. I'm sorry, but that attitude ticks me off. Just because you don't need a degree to wait tables, it takes a certain personality and experience to be a good server. It's physically hard work, it's requires a backbone to deal with all the customer service issues.

 

I've seen that attitude plenty in my dh's former occupation as well. It's an invisible ceiling some people try to put on people who don't have a college education, even in professions where most of the training is on the job or when experience counts.

 

I'm not saying the OP feels this way, I saying that was what I inferred by reading her post.

I get what you are saying. Oddly enough I do feel the same as dh is a college dropout who makes great money in his field.

[Night Elf]

My dd19 is starting a job on Tuesday that pays $2.50/hour. The manager told her the best time to make money is on the weekends but of course the competition for those shifts can be high depending on the number of servers the restaurant has in employment. Dd19 will be working lunch shifts most of the time. We figure if she comes out making $10/ hour, that is good.

 

I'm sorry but the OP came across as demeaning. Basically, serving food is considered a no-education job and those people don't deserve to make good money. College is still that top tier where the graduates automatically come out being better than everyone else. Going to college should open more employments jobs, that is true. But that shouldn't automatically mean that jobs that do not require college degrees should be paid uneducated peon wages.

[Parrothead]

Here's a question - I kind of get why servers have to share with bus boys, but why bartenders? Don't bartenders have their own tips? Any time I've ever gone out if I get a drink from the bartender I pay for the drink plus $1.

[elegantlion]

You're so right. :(

 

Have you ever wondered why these developments weren't coined Burger Kingdoms instead?

 

I've lost sleep over that one.

 

Because all the Burger Kings live in the White Castle developments. :001_tt2::biggrinjester:

[melissel]

Here's a question - I kind of get why servers have to share with bus boys, but why bartenders? Don't bartenders have their own tips? Any time I've ever gone out if I get a drink from the bartender I pay for the drink plus $1.

 

Not all bartenders are serving directly to the customers. Some places have bartenders that serve the drinks to the servers placing the orders.

[melissel]

Because all the Burger Kings live in the White Castle developments. :001_tt2::biggrinjester:

 

I'm sending $1 to the person who can work Taco Bell, Wendy's, or Sonic into this sub-topic.

[LibraryLover]

Because all the Burger Kings live in the White Castle developments. :001_tt2::biggrinjester:

 

:lol: Yes! I have a friend!

 

I think this is a conversation Tracy Jordan and Jenna could have on 30 Rock. Who do I email? lol

[cindergretta]

Wow, :glare: .

 

Since my post has been thoroughly trashed, I would like to clarify.

 

My dh and I tip *over* 20% every time.

 

If your dc are throwing food, running around, yelling, making messes, for heaven's sake, stay home! MY dc are quiet, behaved, and polite. And we carefully and thoroughly clean our table and floor area before leaving. I shouldn't have to tip more because your dc act like hooligans in a restaurant.

 

And finally, the mandatory 18% on groups of 8 or more is NOT meant for families who are on one bill. :glare: It is meant for groups with individuals splitting a bill or couples splitting a bill BECAUSE they tend to under tip massively, everyone assuming others will tip better so they can skip out and leave a buck. That is simple. One family paying one bill will tip poorly or well, regardless of size.

 

We recently went to a restaurant with a family of 5 and our family of 8. We tipped 20%+ on our bill and the family of 5 tipped around 10%. This restaurant did not add on a mandatory tip for either of us and we tipped way better. To be fair, all of our dc were extremely polite and well behaved. And we were all seated at the same table.

 

People can be philosophically opposed to the whole structure and set up without being stingy or uncaring. For heaven's sake, the holier than thou superiority in this thread is beyond icky.

[Parrothead]

Not all bartenders are serving directly to the customers. Some places have bartenders that serve the drinks to the servers placing the orders.

 

Hmm... I think there is something screwy about this logic.

 

If I go out and decide I want to sit at a table my server has to share with the bartender. Okay so now after reading this thread I no longer feel the need to drop extra in the bartenders tip jar on my way out the door. If I sit at the bar does the bartender have to share with servers?

 

What about the table that does not order drinks beyond water or fountain drinks? Does the server have to share with the bartender regardless?

[LibraryLover]

I'm sending $1 to the person who can work Taco Bell, Wendy's, or Sonic into this sub-topic.

 

 

That would be genius. :D

 

Would we have to share a portion of the $1 with anyone?

[beaners]

 

And finally, the mandatory 18% on groups of 8 or more is NOT meant for families who are on one bill. :glare: It is meant for groups with individuals splitting a bill or couples splitting a bill BECAUSE they tend to under tip massively, everyone assuming others will tip better so they can skip out and leave a buck. That is simple. One family paying one bill will tip poorly or well, regardless of size.

 

It may be what that particular manager told you, but this is really not how it works across the board. I've never worked at a restaurant, and my husband has never run a restaurant (almost 20 years!), where they didn't count a large group as a party because they were one family. I don't doubt the manager said that.

 

Hmm... I think there is something screwy about this logic.

 

If I go out and decide I want to sit at a table my server has to share with the bartender. Okay so now after reading this thread I no longer feel the need to drop extra in the bartenders tip jar on my way out the door. If I sit at the bar does the bartender have to share with servers?

 

What about the table that does not order drinks beyond water or fountain drinks? Does the server have to share with the bartender regardless?

 

You tip out on your bar sales that the bartender needs to make and place on the server pickup station. It might be a bottle of beer or a milkshake or a fancy fruit flavored lemonade. It isn't just alcoholic beverages. Regular fountain beverages that the server brings usually do not count toward that, in my experience.

Edited January 15, 2012 by beaners
Ooops...I made my husband 5 years older than he really is!

[melissel]

Hmm... I think there is something screwy about this logic.

 

If I go out and decide I want to sit at a table my server has to share with the bartender. Okay so now after reading this thread I no longer feel the need to drop extra in the bartenders tip jar on my way out the door. If I sit at the bar does the bartender have to share with servers?

 

What about the table that does not order drinks beyond water or fountain drinks? Does the server have to share with the bartender regardless?

 

I have never been to a restaurant where there was a tip jar for a bartender, myself. Either I order from the bartender directly and tip her/him directly or I order from the server while sitting at our table, and I don't know what happens to the bartender. Probably the servers tip them out. But someone still has to pour the drinks, and if it's a restaurant with a bar, it's usually the bartender. Then I think yes, they probably would get a small share of the tips from the table. Maybe it's calculated as a percentage of the beverage order from each check--so it would be less from a table that had soda and water and more from a table that ordered beer/wine/liquor? I imagine it varies by restaurant and setup.

[Jennifer3141]

That would be genius. :D

 

Would we have to share a portion of the $1 with anyone?

 

You have to send it to Tracy Jordan! :lol:

[melissel]

That would be genius. :D

 

Would we have to share a portion of the $1 with anyone?

 

That is solely at your own discretion.

[elegantlion]

That is solely at your own discretion.

 

Will we be taxed on the dollar?

[melissel]

It may be what that particular manager told you, but this is really not how it works across the board. I've never worked at a restaurant, and my husband has never run a restaurant (almost 25 years!), where they didn't count a large group as a party because they were one family. I don't doubt the manager said that.

 

:iagree: I have never heard this before, and I have no idea why it wouldn't apply to a large family as well as a large mixed party of adults. When we've gone out as an extended family, with one person paying, the gratuity is usually added. They don't ask us whether we're splitting the check or not. It just is.

 

At times, my father (who usually pays) takes issue with it. He is invariably told that it is not mandatory and he is free to tip more or less. He has been told by managers that there are people who think they are already paying so much for the meal that they don't care to pay so much for the gratuity, so they do add it is a reminder of how much is customary. If he ever wanted to pay more or less, though, he certainly could have.

[LibraryLover]

You have to send it to Tracy Jordan! :lol:

 

 

You can have the whole dollar if you can find me Tina Fey's email addy.

[melissel]

Will we be taxed on the dollar?

 

Hm, very good question. I'm not up to filling out any forms today, so whether or not you claim it and pay your share will be up to you. If you prefer, I can send it via Personal Paypal so there are no Paypal fees as well :D

[LibraryLover]

Will we be taxed on the dollar?

 

I haven't been able to keep a sip of my coffee down.

[Tigger]

Here's a question - I kind of get why servers have to share with bus boys, but why bartenders? Don't bartenders have their own tips? Any time I've ever gone out if I get a drink from the bartender I pay for the drink plus $1.

 

Bartenders often have to take time away from the bar customers to fill orders for the servers.

[cindergretta]

Fine then. This manager lied to me. But what he said makes more sense to me than the screwy way it really works. Basically, we (my larger family) will be treated as suspect and not reliable (going to "cheat" on the tip) because of our number. :glare: Nice, guess I know that now. A smaller family can be obnoxious and rowdy and leave a 4% tip. But a larger family who is polite, neat, and well behaved will be automatically assumed "bad" and assigned a tip. :glare: Talk about screwy logic. I think I will ask about this before eating in any more restaurants. We will give our business (and generous tips) to a restaurant who won't discriminate against us upfront and assign negative intent based solely on the fact that we have 6 dc.

[Tigger]

Hmm... I think there is something screwy about this logic.

 

If I go out and decide I want to sit at a table my server has to share with the bartender. Okay so now after reading this thread I no longer feel the need to drop extra in the bartenders tip jar on my way out the door. If I sit at the bar does the bartender have to share with servers?

 

What about the table that does not order drinks beyond water or fountain drinks? Does the server have to share with the bartender regardless?

 

I think it totally depends on the establishment. I've worked in a bar, hustling drinks (the place was a bar, not a restaurant) long long ago - I didn't have to tip out the bartender even though he made the drinks I served, nor did he share his tips from the bar with me. My sister worked at a restaurant where she had to tip the bartender a % of her bar bill tip totals, so it was only on the drinks the bartender prepared for her, not all beverages (like soda & water which she filled herself).

[lmrich]

Joining in late to this....

A dear friend of mine is a waitress at a very expensive, exclusive steak house. She has had earned over $75,000 in a year. She works hard, very hard. However, she wants to be a full time art teacher. She teaches part time now; she is extremely talented and patient and organized - an amazing teacher!!! She can not afford to give up the waitress job to become a broke art teacher. It is sad for her. and really for all of the children who will not be blessed by having her be their teacher.