Bedtimes for large families

[Sue G in PA]

My husband and I are at odds over bedtime (well, we are at odds over pretty much everything these days but that's for another forum, lol). Bedtime seems to be the biggest thorn in his side and so I'm trying to make it more palatable for him. The current state of affairs: 9pm we begin the bedtime proceedings (brush teeth, read book if they want, pjs, then to bed). The whole process takes half hour, tops, when we "divide and conquer". He does the basement kids who are my ds15 (own room), ds13 (own room), ds8 and ds10 (share a room), I do the upstairs kids who are dd15 (own room) and dd6, ds3 (share a room next to ours). Dh wants lights out and 100% quiet by 10pm. He NEEDS his quiet time, some semblance of peace in the house by 10pm which he thinks is a reasonable time. Ok. I give him that. He wants peace, great, we strive for peace by 10pm. The challenges: 1. I think my older 3 kids (15, 13, 12...each in their own rooms) deserve a later lights out time than the youngers (10, 8, 6 and 3). DH said this is impossible b/c then the youngers can "sense" the olders are up and want to stay up, too. OOOOKKKAAAAYY. The older 3 ARE quiet by 10, often reading, playing handheld video game or iPod 2. Many times, we have kids coming upstairs to use the bathroom, retrieve something they "forgot" or try an finagle a snack out of us...which we never allow. 3. The youngest 2 have a difficult time falling asleep. Ds3 will often have a late nap (5 - 7pm...he often will just "fall asleep" while playing) which does not help us accomplish bedtime by 10. Dd6 is a "night owl" and just has a tough time falling asleep...like me...period.

 

Okay, so, I need some suggestions on how to accomplish what my dh wants. B/c the major issue is that IF quiet time isn't accomplished by 10pm shart...he blames ME and says that I'm not supporting him. I'm left shaking my head b/c I don't know how it's all my fault and how I'm supposed to MAKE them all sleep by 10pm short of medicating them. :001_huh: My dh becomes "super vigilant" at night, yelling at everyone to "go to sleep!" but rarely will enforce any sort of disciplinary measures when they don't settle down. But it is still my fault. Again, :001_huh: I am more apt to let them "settle down" on their own...run out of steam if you will. I believe that my method AND his method accomplish the SAME thing in that they all settle in about the same period of time (my method being a LOT less stressful for the kids). Okay, if you have read this far thank you. I really need some concrete suggestions on HOW to do what dh wants b/c I'm sick and tired of him blaming me for our kids not falling asleep when he wants them to. Thanks. I'm :bigear:

[justamouse]

:grouphug:

 

Have the olders read in their room or do something quiet until they feel like sleeping?

 

I don't know-I don't think it's fair to the olders that they have to go to sleep when the littles, do.

 

OR you could start bed for the littles around 8, and have their bedtime at 8:30, then the olders can put themselves to bed? I mean, I never tell my 16 yo when she can and can't go to bed, and she puts herself there. :001_smile: But it's not like shes running around willy nilly at 10 pm, either.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[OrganicAnn]

Can you DH get some headphones and listen to a book on tape or the TV and so won't have to deal with the kids? I think with that many kids and with that wide a range of ages and personalities it is unreasonable to start at 9pm and expect all kids to be asleep or quiet at 10pm. It would be nice, but not realistic.

 

I would try to get the younger kids to an earlier bedtime and as I said headphones for your DH.

[jennsmile]

I am no help as we all go to bed at the same time. That way our kids don't sense us up making noise keeping them awake. Our quiet time is in the morning.

[Slipper]

I don't think that 'lights out' at 10 pm is unreasonable to be honest. Now, we have a different schedule and our kids are younger. My 10 yr old goes to bed at 8:30 and my 7 year old goes to bed at 8:00. My 12 yr old has autism and has her own schedule that I don't interfere with. She wants to be in bed by 8:00 and prefers to be in her room by 7:30.

 

Can you teach the older kids to put the younger ones to bed? Both my girls are able to get my 12 yr old into pajamas, brush teeth, wash off (or take a bath) when she starts heading into her room. If the older ones can do that, that would relieve some of the pressure of putting so many to bed.

 

Something that I have my 10 yr old do is to settle down for bed by reading. My 7 yr old doesn't go to bed easily unless the 10 yr old is also going to bed. So, my 10 yr old reads for the last half hour in their room. My 7 yr old is comfortable that her sister is near and goes to sleep happily.

 

Good luck with everything :)

[Thia]

Try starting prep earlier. Have everyone in their beds by 930. That leaves half an hour for them to really settle down.

My grandmother always said that she went off duty at 7. Kids were expected to be in their rooms then for the night. I wish she was still alive b/c I'd love to ask her HOW she did this.

[NicAnn]

I'm not much help, but I have a suggestion for the three year old. Put him down early if he falls asleep playing. When dd was three she went to bed at 6 and now at 4 she goes down at 7. Some kids just need an early bedtime.

 

Good luck!

[Julie in CA]

Probably not helpful here--I think your dh is right. 10 p.m. is a reasonable time to have the household "in bed". I allow the olders to have iPod with headphones, or books read by their small bedside lamp.

 

If anything, in your place I'd definitely be putting the youngers to bed earlier, but still keeping the overall household lights out by 10 p.m.

[TXBeth]

I agree with you that the kids should have different bedtimes, but I would do it by putting the littles down earlier instead of having the bigs up later. What I would do: make a concerted effort to keep DS3 from napping in the evening. Play with him, feed him, whatever it takes. Then Put him down at 7. At 8, the other three littles can brush teeth, etc and have quiet time in their rooms until lights out at 9. At 9ish or whenever thy want provided it's done by 10, the teens can get dressed for bed and brush teeth (I'm really confused as to why they would need help or supervision for this). By 10, the littles will be long since asleep and the teens will know they are required to stay in their rooms and be quiet. Problem solved.

[KungFuPanda]

Why don't you put all of the older kids in the basement rooms? If they're truly quiet, the younger ones won't know they're up. They certainly won't sense it. Also, maybe your little guy should nap earlier or not at all. I know it's painful when they outgrow their nap, but if it eliminates stress at bedtime, it may be time to think about it. If he's falling asleep at five, try waking him at six. Nobody napping from 5-7 is going to be able to sleep at bedtime 3 hours later!

 

You and DH need a plan you can both follow. Its not right for him to get annoyed at you when he doesnt know the answer either. Also I see nothing wrong with telling the kids that when you are 11, your bedtime will be an hour later. It seems ridiculous for a teenager and a preschooler to have the same bedtime.

 

I kind of understand that your DH doesn't feel he can fully relax until the kids are sleeping. I remember that feeling. The trouble is, you have to let go of that when you have teenagers. They're wired differently and some of them are going to be awake when you go to sleep.

 

Of course, the compromise would be for DH to wake everyone up an hour earlier and manage breakfast while you sleep another hour. You could then handle bedtimes (which are now skewed an hour earlier) because you cope better at night. Start the little ones' routine at 8, lights out at 9, and he older ones get that extra hour, but lights are still out by 10.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. Some other details: 1. DH travels and is gone about 10 days/mo (10 nights b/c he arrives home after kids bedtime when he returns). He thinks it is completely unreasonable that I implement a schedule that works for ME AS WELL AS THE KIDS while he is gone. He said that is selfish and that I need to sacrifice. :001_huh: 2. He works from home 3/5 days of the week when he is home and often does not get up until my ds3 does which is at 7am. I am later to rise, even when he is gone...often not getting up until 8:30. My ds12 takes care of ds3 in the am b/c he is up early as well. I stay up late (it's my quiet time) and have insomnia most nights and am a late riser (another bone of contention with dh and I b/c he sees that as my being lazy :001_huh:). Dh can fall asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow. No insomnia. Ever. 3. He often handles bed-time b/c I've had the kids all.day.long (I read to dd6/ds3 or wash dishes or straighten up or whatever...RARELY am I ever NOT doing something). There is obviously a LOT going on here. We've been told by numerous people that with all those kids and different personalities that it seems near impossible to accomplish what dh wants to accomplish. But dh refuses to see that...he wants what he wants. I'm at my wits end. When he is out of town, my house is so much more peaceful at night. When he is home, we are all a big ball of stress and tension (not very conducive to falling asleep, huh?). Dh said that we (meaning me and the kids) need to all get up earlier (more structure) b/c that's just how life operates. I said that he simply wants us to be on HIS schedule to make it easier for him. No compromise. He's right. I'm wrong. But I digress...

[Sue G in PA]

My dd15 will often retire for the night at 8:30...she reads or plays on her iPod until she falls asleep. Ds13 is a night owl...regardless of what time he gets up in the am...he takes his shower at 9 when the other kids are settling down, has a snack and then goes down to bed, sometimes coming up for a snack. (I did this a lot as a teen...dh had stricter rules. I put myself to bed as a teen...dh had a strict bedtime...hmmm..sensing some different ways of thinking here? :D But his way is right b/c it works for HIM. Ds13 is same way...he goes down to bed and is quiet unless his younger brothers bother him, which they do. Ds10 and ds8 share a room...it can get to be like a slumber party sometimes. Not sure how to "fix" that and NEITHER IS DH...but it is up to me to fix it to make his life more peaceful. It's ALWAY UP TO ME TO FIX HIM! Bedtime issues mainly surround our 4 youngest (10, 8, 6 and 3). I will try the earlier bedtime for ds3 instead of a nap. That might just work.

[Ottakee]

Do you have more than 1 bathroom? Can you turn your bedroom into a private retreat where dh can go at 10pm and not be disturbed by the kids?

 

I do think that 10pm is a very reasonable time to have the house quiet and the youngers sleeping and olders quiet in their rooms. If need be, can you switch around bedrooms/who is in with who to help make this happen?

 

One thing I have learned as the kids get older (and granted I don't have any littles now) is that quiet time alone with my dh is VERY important. We need that for our relationship.

 

If you dh wants some "intimate" time with you but is afraid of the older ones being up/interrupting, maybe you could work on that. Do some sound proofing, alter which bathrooms they use or bedrooms they are in, etc. Get a lock on the bedroom door and use some white noise---we use a TV in our room which I know so many people say is a big NO NO but the TV is near the door and helps muffle any other sounds that might be heard. Might not be part of your issue though.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I haven't read the other replies, but I'd suggest putting the younger kids to bed earlier. I only have 4 kids right now and they are all young (7 and under) but they don't go to bed at the same times. The 3yo and 5yo go to bed at 6:30pm (we start getting ready for bed right after dinner), the 7yo around 7:30 and the almost 2yo at 8 (he's the only one who still takes a nap). The girls (3yo and 7yo) share and the boys (5yo and 1yo) share. We did not have good luck putting the kids in the same room to bed at the same time. They just talked, climbed into each others beds, etc. So, they now have separate bedtimes. DH and I definitely enjoy the early bedtime, as that allows us time to hang out or spend time alone before our bedtime (10pm).

 

ETA: I read some of the other posts and see that another problem is the kids who share rooms. As I mentioned already, separate bedtimes for kids who share a bedroom is a must at our house. I always make sure that the first child is asleep before I put the second child to bed. There was a short period of adjustment when the now 3yo gave up her nap and started going to sleep before her sister instead of after, and I would imagine there would be the same if you decided to switch things at your house. But both of them get more sleep that way and it saved dh and I a lot of misery.

Also, whatever you decide, it would probably be best to follow the same routine (as well as as possible) whether your dh is home or not. My dh works late often so I know it can be hard for one person to do the work of two people but I've definitely found it eases things to have bedtimes and waking times to be the same every day of the week. We are all miserable if our routine is off.

 

Another edit: It sounds like you and your dh need to find something that you can both agree on. This will mean compromise for both of you. Having bedtime by 10pm seems reasonable to me (I had a bedtime of ten all through high school). It would require some of the kids to go to sleep earlier, but imo, 10pm is too late for young kids to be going to sleep anyway. So, find something that works for you both where you each have clearly defined roles (This was really important for us. And if you have clear expectations it will make the routine go more smoothly as well, for both the adults and the kids.) and just stick to it. If you decide to implement earlier bedtimes for some of the kids it will be hard at first. Your dh needs to be on board with this, especially since he is the one that wants everyone in bed by 10.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Lisa in the UP of MI

[TXBeth]

Thanks everyone. Some other details: 1. DH travels and is gone about 10 days/mo (10 nights b/c he arrives home after kids bedtime when he returns). He thinks it is completely unreasonable that I implement a schedule that works for ME AS WELL AS THE KIDS while he is gone. He said that is selfish and that I need to sacrifice. :001_huh: I have to say I agree with your DH here. Kids need consistency and if you just let them go to bed whenever they want 10 days/month, it will be impossible to get them on a schedule the rest of the time. 2. He works from home 3/5 days of the week when he is home and often does not get up until my ds3 does which is at 7am. I am later to rise, even when he is gone...often not getting up until 8:30. My ds12 takes care of ds3 in the am b/c he is up early as well. I stay up late (it's my quiet time) and have insomnia most nights and am a late riser (another bone of contention with dh and I b/c he sees that as my being lazy :001_huh:). Dh can fall asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow. No insomnia. Ever. 3. He often handles bed-time b/c I've had the kids all.day.long (I read to dd6/ds3 or wash dishes or straighten up or whatever...RARELY am I ever NOT doing something). Wait, so he handles mornings while you sleep in, and he handles bedtime too? You don't see why that might bother him? I struggle with insomnia as well, and as difficult as it is to implement, the best way to reset your sleep clock is to get up earlier and then go to bed earlier. There is obviously a LOT going on here. We've been told by numerous people that with all those kids and different personalities that it seems near impossible to accomplish what dh wants to accomplish. I disagree. I grew up with a houseful of kids of all different ages and different personalities. We all had different bedtimes based on age and maturity and sleep needs, but our house was absolutely quiet after 10pm and I would not have dreamed of coming out of my room after that unless it was really important. But dh refuses to see that...he wants what he wants. I'm at my wits end. When he is out of town, my house is so much more peaceful at night. When he is home, we are all a big ball of stress and tension (not very conducive to falling asleep, huh?). Dh said that we (meaning me and the kids) need to all get up earlier (more structure) b/c that's just how life operates. I said that he simply wants us to be on HIS schedule to make it easier for him. No compromise. He's right. I'm wrong. But I digress...

 

When you have a large family, structure IS more important. Your DH knows he needs that quiet time and wants to have a system in place so he gets it. That is not unreasonable. I thought he was being unreasonable to blame you when it doesn't work, but with your update it seems it is true that you don't support his efforts for a healthy bedtime routine and even undermine them by abandoning the routine when he is gone.

[Veritaserum]

Our kids all go to their rooms at 8 and stay there (usually ;)). They can listen to audiobooks or read until they fall asleep. Dh and I get our quiet time. :)

[mommaduck]

Can the youngers go to bed earlier?

[Whereneverever]

When you have a large family, structure IS more important. Your DH knows he needs that quiet time and wants to have a system in place so he gets it. That is not unreasonable. I thought he was being unreasonable to blame you when it doesn't work, but with your update it seems it is true that you don't support his efforts for a healthy bedtime routine and even undermine them by abandoning the routine when he is gone.

 

:iagree:

[Slipper]

I think that if your older teens are in their rooms and simply have trouble sleeping, that it's not a big deal for them to be up and down a bit. HOWEVER, I would insist upon a typical waking time and make them stick to it. It may seem cruel but at some point, they will be expected to hold down a job and their employer will not be sympathetic to insomnia excuses. They need to learn how to lose sleep and still function.

 

For your little ones who share a room and have trouble bed hopping, playing, telling stories, etc. ;) Ask one of the older ones to sit in their room and read while the little ones go to bed. Or do it yourself for a few nights. I had to do this about two months to get the habit set. We would read a story together and then it would be bedtime. I usually sat in the doorway so I could have a light to read by. There would be NO talking. They would ask a question and if it was important, I would answer briefly and remind them no talking. Typically, I would tell them to hush, it was bedtime and we could talk about it tomorrow.

 

If you definitely want to not be disturbed after 10:00, tell your teen-agers that at night, sometimes you and your husband want some privacy (and then give them a big wink). Chances are good that your kids will be afraid to venture out of their rooms. ;)

[KatieJ]

Probably not helpful here--I think your dh is right. 10 p.m. is a reasonable time to have the household "in bed". I allow the olders to have iPod with headphones, or books read by their small bedside lamp.

 

If anything, in your place I'd definitely be putting the youngers to bed earlier, but still keeping the overall household lights out by 10 p.m.

 

 

:iagree:

If I was a 15 yr old going to bed the same time as my 3 yr old sibling, I would be not thrilled.

 

I would be putting the youngers to bed at 8pm and have lights out for the olders by 9:30, but they wouldn't necessarily have to be asleep for it to be quiet. I had huge age gaps in my kiddoes and the youngers always went to bed ahead of the older ones. I would have a sit down with the older kids and tell them the rules once again. Lights out by 9:30 or 10 pm, no coming out for anything unless you are throwing up or bleeding. The 3 yr old 5pm nap would go away immediately and he would be in bed by 7 or 8pm. The ones who share a room probably should have a similiar bedtime to avoid wakign anyone up, however, a soundly sleeping child will not be bothered by his "quiet" sibling slipping into bed. If you do put them to bed at a different time, PJ's for the older one would probably come out of that room as I put the 3 yr old to bed.

 

I believe that as our children get older they earn priviledges and a later bedtime is one of those things they get to earn. If they can't be quiet then they go to bed earlier the next night..and so on. If Dad needs the house quiet by 10pm, then that is what the house would be. (My hubby is an early riser and our kiddoes and their friends all knew the phone was not to ring after 9pm. Quiet was enforced after 9:30 as DH was on his way to bed.)

Edited December 31, 2011 by KatieinMich

[Julie in CA]

Thanks everyone. Some other details: 1. DH travels and is gone about 10 days/mo (10 nights b/c he arrives home after kids bedtime when he returns). He thinks it is completely unreasonable that I implement a schedule that works for ME AS WELL AS THE KIDS while he is gone. He said that is selfish and that I need to sacrifice. :001_huh: 2. He works from home 3/5 days of the week when he is home and often does not get up until my ds3 does which is at 7am. I am later to rise, even when he is gone...often not getting up until 8:30. My ds12 takes care of ds3 in the am b/c he is up early as well. I stay up late (it's my quiet time) and have insomnia most nights and am a late riser (another bone of contention with dh and I b/c he sees that as my being lazy :001_huh:). Dh can fall asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow. No insomnia. Ever. 3. He often handles bed-time b/c I've had the kids all.day.long (I read to dd6/ds3 or wash dishes or straighten up or whatever...RARELY am I ever NOT doing something). There is obviously a LOT going on here. We've been told by numerous people that with all those kids and different personalities that it seems near impossible to accomplish what dh wants to accomplish. But dh refuses to see that...he wants what he wants. I'm at my wits end. When he is out of town, my house is so much more peaceful at night. When he is home, we are all a big ball of stress and tension (not very conducive to falling asleep, huh?). Dh said that we (meaning me and the kids) need to all get up earlier (more structure) b/c that's just how life operates. I said that he simply wants us to be on HIS schedule to make it easier for him. No compromise. He's right. I'm wrong. But I digress...

I am so sorry, Sue! I'm sensing that you probably wanted this to be a JAWM thread, and I do understand your frustration that the overall routine isn't working. At the same time...I think your husband is right.

 

Frankly, his expectations don't sound out of line. Your routine might, to some folks, seem a bit self-indulgent, and probably, maybe, not the example that your dh is hoping your kids will absorb. Most people really do have to get up fairly early in the morning, and it does serve kids well imo, to have that mindset before they really need it (ie: get their first outside job or have an early-morning college class to catch).

 

Please don't assume that it's only to make things easier for himself. When my dh is gone, things run much smoother here too, but not because my ways are necessarily better than my dh's for the long-term. What your dh is asking for seems not only reasonable, but beneficial, and a change in habits would certainly not be detrimental, it just takes a lot of work to change routines that are already set.

 

The resentment though, that's a real issue, and one I know you've struggled with in the past. I can't remember what you've tried, in terms of counseling, but I'm just offering you a little encouragement to keep working at that. :grouphug: You cannot change him, only your attitude about things, and it's hard to separate the tough marriage & attitude stuff from the ideas he has that really are valid. Hang in there! :grouphug:

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

What time do they get up?

 

Bedtimes are not privileges to be handed out, they are determined by the need for sleep and the family schedule and won't be the same for everyone.

 

The three year old needs to be asleep earlier if he's falling asleep in the early evening. The six year old sounds like she's into her second wind. Try an hour earlier bed time or later rising time for them. One of the lessons of childhood is that yes, you do sense activity around you, but don't let it bother you when you need to be doing something else. Life isn't 'fair'. (Of course you won't be doing construction work inthe room next door when they are trying to sleep, but you might run the washer or dryer).

 

:iagree: The 3yo should NOT be taking at nap at 5pm. Something needs to change there, most likely a much earlier bedtime. If he's up at 7am then he should probably be going to bed around 7pm, or at least by 8. My 3yo and 5yo need 12 hours of sleep. They are total bears without it. They get up at 6:30am so they are in bed by 6:30pm. Most people I tell that to think it's crazy and wonder how we get them to bed then. They are tired then (used to going to sleep at that time) but not overtired (which of course makes it more difficult to fall asleep).

 

Sleep has been a big issue at our house, and we have found that consistent bedtimes and waking times has been very helpful for everyone. We are all in better moods because we get enough sleep and when you wake up and go to sleep at the same time everyday your body gets used to it, making it easier to fall asleep.

[Caribbean Queen]

Okay, so, I need some suggestions on how to accomplish what my dh wants. B/c the major issue is that IF quiet time isn't accomplished by 10pm shart...he blames ME and says that I'm not supporting him. I'm left shaking my head b/c I don't know how it's all my fault and how I'm supposed to MAKE them all sleep by 10pm short of medicating them. :001_huh: My dh becomes "super vigilant" at night, yelling at everyone to "go to sleep!" but rarely will enforce any sort of disciplinary measures when they don't settle down. But it is still my fault. Again, :001_huh: I am more apt to let them "settle down" on their own...run out of steam if you will. I believe that my method AND his method accomplish the SAME thing in that they all settle in about the same period of time (my method being a LOT less stressful for the kids).

 

I don't think you do want to accomplish what your Dh wants. Your posts are full of your reasons. Your 6 year old is a night owl, your 3 y/o takes a late nap, the older children should stay up later, your husband is gone many nights per month, you can't make them go to sleep without drugging them, you like to stay up late and get up late...

 

If you really wanted to get them quiet and the lights off by 10, I bet you could do it.

 

I know how it is to have a Dh you think is a [insert insulting name], and you don't want to do as he says. If you are a Christian, I can post some scriptures which I think explain what you should do.

[mommaduck]

We deal with some of the same issues, but my husband doesn't fuss at me over it. *I* am the one that needs quiet time at night...and that is why I have insomnia issues.

 

My kids are all close in age to yours (as you know ;) ). The 3yr and 5yr are in bed at seven. The 8yr and 10yr are in bed at eight. The preteen and teens are in bed by nine (the 15yr sometimes goes to bed earlier, but because he's up at 4am on his own...dh is up at 3am, so he is in bed by 7pm also). My older kids manage the youngers in the morning, but dh is gone and I manage bedtime.

 

I have to agree with a pp, that going to bed earlier and forcing yourself to get up earlier is the only way to cure the sleeplessness. However, it takes me a couple of all nighters to get to that crashing point, and then I can go to bed early and change my schedule.

 

I do understand both sides on this. You have more bedroom space than we do. You can adjust bedrooms if necessary. You can adjust bedtimes (that is where I would start). You and dh both need to work together on it. :grouphug: Maybe show him some of these suggestions and ask him to help implement a plan that will take their ages into consideration.

 

 

(on a side note: life doesn't run on "early to bed, early to rise". It depends upon a person's job. For many years we were on a second shift schedule...that meant getting up late, spending family time, starting school after the littles went to bed, and staying up till daddy got home at midnight or 1am).

Edited December 31, 2011 by mommaduck

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

When you have a large family, structure IS more important. Your DH knows he needs that quiet time and wants to have a system in place so he gets it. That is not unreasonable. I thought he was being unreasonable to blame you when it doesn't work, but with your update it seems it is true that you don't support his efforts for a healthy bedtime routine and even undermine them by abandoning the routine when he is gone.

 

:iagree: I feel that structure is important in any family, but if you have a large family life just turns into chaos without it. Consistency is also important.

[justamouse]

We're a house of night owls so we don't have the balancing of morning people and night owls. And, we work around our own schedules, so we don't have to 'go out and live int he real world'. If I had a job like that, I would do it, but not expect everyone else to abide by my schedule.

 

But I don't think it's unreasonable that the littles are in bed earlier. Until they are 10/11/12 they hit the sack at 9-which means they are ready by 8, then relax for an hour. The three yo needs to be in bed by 8, at the latest. No nap at 5. I would have the 5 yo in bed by that time, too.

Edited December 31, 2011 by justamouse

[Pamela H in Texas]

What *I* would do.

 

First off, I would drop the nap unless you can do it early (like noon!).

And if he is just challenging and since he's napping at 5 anyway,

it'd probably just be easier to drop it altogether.

 

Second, then the younger ones would be in bed at 7, maybe 8. What *I* would probably do is 7 for the littlest two and 7:30 or 8 for the next two. I would guess the problem with the 8 and 10 year old is simply that their getting a 2nd or 3rd wind about 9 or so so you are working against that. If they were in bed by 8, they'd fall asleep before that wind got there. You also have a bit more time to work on discipline.

 

The 12+ group should be determining their own bedtimes within reason, imo. You may need an absolute lights out time if you have one who will stay up til 3am then not be able to function the next morning. It is also reasonable to have a quiet time for yourself barring any big conversations or concerns (please DO "bother" me if you're thinking about having sex for the first time; but spare me any discussion about that crazy video game you play). The quiet time is probably also the time the kitchen is closed, the time everyone should have potty'd for the "last" time (ie, if the quiet time start is 10pm, please go by then, not wait til 10:20 EVERY night).

 

It just sounds VERY do-able to me if you start the whole process a couple hours earlier (at 6:30), letting the household wind down a little more slowly, but the younger ones sooner. I think hubby will be more relaxed because it won't be busy at 8:30 or 9, much less 10, even if there is still a teen or two up. And up doesn't have to be driving him nuts either.

 

We have a semi-large family (fluctuates from 7 to 9 depending) with a big age gap. Structure really is helpful. In another thread, I mentioned our shoe arrangement. Clothing is another one. I HAVE to have our system. Bedtime is no different. I would not have been able to do this (and be sane) if my littles stayed up until 9 or 10pm other than rarely. It would have definitely caused issues for ME and for my marriage.

Edited December 31, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[Sue G in PA]

Let me explain a bit more clearly: When dh is away...I DO stick to the same bedtime procedures. What I DON'T do is become like him..hyper-vigilant...I tend more toward the "if you aren't running around like a crazy person and banging on the walls making tons of noise, I'm going to leave you alone if you are in your room and being semi-quiet". I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer. Dh is super-sensitive to noise (he would agree) and can hear every last thing going on downstairs...even quiet talking...and it bothers him. I like the headphones/ear plugs idea. Secondly, he doesn't "handle" mornings. The 3 days a week he is home he gets up when he wakes up...typically at the same time as ds3 and ds12. He doesn't HAVE to...ds12 handles ds3...they have breakfast and watch a bit of tv. Again, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. When he goes in to the office at 6am (2 days a week sometimes only 1), nobody is awake...he doesn't HANDLE anything.

 

I WANT to make this work. I know I sound bitter..I am..there is a LOT going on BESIDES this issue. When dh is away...it's JUST ME. There IS structure and I DO stick to our normal bedtime routine. I just don't stress about it as he does. To be fair, there are NO disciplinary measures in place when dh IS home in regards to bedtime for me to follow when he is gone. Make sense? So to say I'm not supporting him isn't fair at all. We just have different styles of handling the "noise".

 

I think I will try having all kids up earlier. Ds3, ds12, and ds8 are intrinsically morning people...wake up by 8am regardless of what time the go to bed. Ds13, dd15 (the teenagers) enjoy sleeping late...what teenager doesn't, right? Ds10 is sporadic...up early some days, sleeping in others. Dd6 sleeps late most days. 10am. So, I'm thinking having them all up by 8:30 to start school by 9 makes sense and would be a good compromise...even when dh is away. Perhaps that would help with an earlier bedtime? Let's hope.

 

Quiet time by 10 means 100% quiet to dh. Hear the crickets chirp and the baseboards creak sort of quiet. To me, it means kids are out of sight in their own rooms, not behaving wildy, and will eventually fall asleep on their own. Am I making any sense? There must be a compromise.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Sue G in PA

[rwjx2khsmj]

I'd start with the youngers at 8:30. That gives you an extra 30 minutes to manage them and allows the olders to stay up a bit later. Having everyone in their rooms and quiet by 10pm sounds reasonable. Having them be asleep may not be possible every night but quiet and in bed should be.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Sue, I do agree there has to be a compromise, but it does seem that if you could get all the younger kids down by 8, you'd solve the issue of what is going on at 10. Everyone wins :)

 

Yes, I like the idea of a wake up time for those who are not up by that time. That most definitely will help with bedtime too.

 

It sounds like you are willing to change things up to make it work and able to keep up the routine with hubby not there (no doubt staggering will help even more too).

 

BTW, I'm definitely like hubby. I told you to go to bed and I meant sleep, not carrying on. And *I* need MY time! On that issue, it is going to have to be one person's way or the other's. It may be that you can start with one person's (yours) until X time and then move to the other's (hubby's) at that predetermined time. For example, if you put all kids down at 7, then the 8 and 10 yr old can quietly talk or whatever; but at 8pm, they need to be still and silent. Just for example....

[silliness7]

My husband and I are at odds over bedtime (well, we are at odds over pretty much everything these days but that's for another forum, lol). Bedtime seems to be the biggest thorn in his side and so I'm trying to make it more palatable for him. The current state of affairs: 9pm we begin the bedtime proceedings (brush teeth, read book if they want, pjs, then to bed). The whole process takes half hour, tops, when we "divide and conquer". He does the basement kids who are my ds15 (own room), ds13 (own room), ds8 and ds10 (share a room), I do the upstairs kids who are dd15 (own room) and dd6, ds3 (share a room next to ours). Dh wants lights out and 100% quiet by 10pm. He NEEDS his quiet time, some semblance of peace in the house by 10pm which he thinks is a reasonable time. Ok. I give him that. He wants peace, great, we strive for peace by 10pm. The challenges: 1. I think my older 3 kids (15, 13, 12...each in their own rooms) deserve a later lights out time than the youngers (10, 8, 6 and 3). DH said this is impossible b/c then the youngers can "sense" the olders are up and want to stay up, too. OOOOKKKAAAAYY. The older 3 ARE quiet by 10, often reading, playing handheld video game or iPod 2. Many times, we have kids coming upstairs to use the bathroom, retrieve something they "forgot" or try an finagle a snack out of us...which we never allow. 3. The youngest 2 have a difficult time falling asleep. Ds3 will often have a late nap (5 - 7pm...he often will just "fall asleep" while playing) which does not help us accomplish bedtime by 10. Dd6 is a "night owl" and just has a tough time falling asleep...like me...period.

 

Okay, so, I need some suggestions on how to accomplish what my dh wants. B/c the major issue is that IF quiet time isn't accomplished by 10pm shart...he blames ME and says that I'm not supporting him. I'm left shaking my head b/c I don't know how it's all my fault and how I'm supposed to MAKE them all sleep by 10pm short of medicating them. :001_huh: My dh becomes "super vigilant" at night, yelling at everyone to "go to sleep!" but rarely will enforce any sort of disciplinary measures when they don't settle down. But it is still my fault. Again, :001_huh: I am more apt to let them "settle down" on their own...run out of steam if you will. I believe that my method AND his method accomplish the SAME thing in that they all settle in about the same period of time (my method being a LOT less stressful for the kids). Okay, if you have read this far thank you. I really need some concrete suggestions on HOW to do what dh wants b/c I'm sick and tired of him blaming me for our kids not falling asleep when he wants them to. Thanks. I'm :bigear:

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like you're in a tough spot. If my dh felt as your dh did I would ask him to take the initiative, come up with the plan and enact it with me being the support staff. It doesn't sound like that's an option for you. :grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

:grouphug::grouphug: I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like you're in a tough spot. If my dh felt as your dh did I would ask him to take the initiative, come up with the plan and enact it with me being the support staff. It doesn't sound like that's an option for you. :grouphug:

 

THAT is exactly the issue! He WON'T come up with a plan (or can't)! And so, by default, it is my responsibility. He asks me to "support him"...but what is there to support? There is NO disciplinary measure in place..it changes every night based on how tired dh is or how frustrated he already is! Some nights he yells at the top of his lungs, others he just goes to bed and tries to ignore it, others he sits in the lr and plays "guard" until all is quiet, others he takes allowance away (but doesn't really follow through), others he makes bedtime earlier the next night (but again, doesn't follow through). My suggestions are poo-pooed. I'm really frustrated. Can you tell? :glare: I'm so tired of him WANTING everything to be structured and "in order" but not being willing to HELP ACCOMPLISH that. For example...on the days he is working from home...if he really wanted the kids up by a certain time...he could rouse them. OR he could talk to me and TELL me this is what he wants (other than during an argument). Ugh...this is pointless.

[beaners]

If bedtime isn't really the issue, then no matter what you do about bedtime, the issue won't be resolved. :grouphug:

[Julie in CA]

I think I will try having all kids up earlier. Ds3, ds12, and ds8 are intrinsically morning people...wake up by 8am regardless of what time the go to bed. Ds13, dd15 (the teenagers) enjoy sleeping late...what teenager doesn't, right? Ds10 is sporadic...up early some days, sleeping in others. Dd6 sleeps late most days. 10am. So, I'm thinking having them all up by 8:30 to start school by 9 makes sense and would be a good compromise...even when dh is away. Perhaps that would help with an earlier bedtime? Let's hope.

Earlier waking times would probably help, *if they're consistent*. Even 8:30 though, *isn't* really early, in most people's mind. It's better, but not really super early, and still later than the majority of people.

 

I'll see if I can link to something that might help:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1446

 

According to this not-so-scientific poll, lol, 78% of kids who have a regular wake-up time are still up earlier than that, and I'd venture to say that most of their parents are too. ;)

 

8:30 would still be a really good start. I'm sure it'll make bedtimes easier, if you can hold out until it becomes routine. :001_smile:

[rwjx2khsmj]

It sounds like bedtime isn't really the issue. :grouphug:

Maybe discussing the real issue in a neutral place at a time when you are both well rested and somewhat relaxed would help.

:grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

It sounds like bedtime isn't really the issue. :grouphug:

Maybe discussing the real issue in a neutral place at a time when you are both well rested and somewhat relaxed would help.

:grouphug:

 

Bedtime is a "symptom" of a larger, deeper, more prevalent problem. We will be seeing a counselor (albeit my husband's individual counselor :glare: b/c our insurance won't cover marriage therapy :glare:).

[Julie in CA]

if he really wanted the kids up by a certain time...he could rouse them. OR he could talk to me and TELL me this is what he wants (other than during an argument).

But Sue, by your own admission, he *has* already told you. You already know. Still, you have set a morning routine that guarantees you will not be available to even try. Your dh may be a complete selfish j3rk, I have no idea. Certainly, you are passively-aggressively showing your disdain for his preference regarding kid bedtimes & waking times. There's nothing wrong with what he's asking, and he's hoping that since you're the one who's typically home with the kids, that you'll be a part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. Getting up earlier in the morning isn't really such a big deal. I know you don't want to give him the satisfaction, but *it costs you nothing* to fix it, and then if he's still a jerk, you at least will be assured that it's him, and not in any way something you had a part in creating negativity about. It will be GOOD for your kids. Don't shut off something that will probably be good for your kids, just in order not to give him the satisfaction. :grouphug: You're strong, and you can do this if you put your mind to it! Maybe use the times he's gone as times to *really reinforce consequences* rather than relax the standard.

[Caribbean Queen]

Quiet time by 10 means 100% quiet to dh. Hear the crickets chirp and the baseboards creak sort of quiet. To me, it means kids are out of sight in their own rooms, not behaving wildy, and will eventually fall asleep on their own. Am I making any sense? There must be a compromise.

 

Are you trying to make the children do what he wants, or not?

[silliness7]

Let me explain a bit more clearly: When dh is away...I DO stick to the same bedtime procedures. What I DON'T do is become like him..hyper-vigilant...I tend more toward the "if you aren't running around like a crazy person and banging on the walls making tons of noise, I'm going to leave you alone if you are in your room and being semi-quiet". I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer. Dh is super-sensitive to noise (he would agree) and can hear every last thing going on downstairs...even quiet talking...and it bothers him. I like the headphones/ear plugs idea. Secondly, he doesn't "handle" mornings. The 3 days a week he is home he gets up when he wakes up...typically at the same time as ds3 and ds12. He doesn't HAVE to...ds12 handles ds3...they have breakfast and watch a bit of tv. Again, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. When he goes in to the office at 6am (2 days a week sometimes only 1), nobody is awake...he doesn't HANDLE anything.

 

I WANT to make this work. I know I sound bitter..I am..there is a LOT going on BESIDES this issue. When dh is away...it's JUST ME. There IS structure and I DO stick to our normal bedtime routine. I just don't stress about it as he does. To be fair, there are NO disciplinary measures in place when dh IS home in regards to bedtime for me to follow when he is gone. Make sense? So to say I'm not supporting him isn't fair at all. We just have different styles of handling the "noise".

 

I think I will try having all kids up earlier. Ds3, ds12, and ds8 are intrinsically morning people...wake up by 8am regardless of what time the go to bed. Ds13, dd15 (the teenagers) enjoy sleeping late...what teenager doesn't, right? Ds10 is sporadic...up early some days, sleeping in others. Dd6 sleeps late most days. 10am. So, I'm thinking having them all up by 8:30 to start school by 9 makes sense and would be a good compromise...even when dh is away. Perhaps that would help with an earlier bedtime? Let's hope.

 

Quiet time by 10 means 100% quiet to dh. Hear the crickets chirp and the baseboards creak sort of quiet. To me, it means kids are out of sight in their own rooms, not behaving wildy, and will eventually fall asleep on their own. Am I making any sense? There must be a compromise.

 

Oh my goodness. My dad was like that. He woke early, went to bed early and on his way to bed he would scream NOISE AND LIGHT CONTROL! and if he heard a squeak he would yell from his bed NOISE AND LIGHT CONTROL! He also traveled a bit and we did enjoy a relaxed atmosphere when mom was in charge. I am so sorry. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

I have a 3yo (in 12 days) who frequently crashes wherever he is in the late afternoon. I know it's going to mess up bedtime, but if I wake him he will scream straight until bedtime. So I don't wake him and he's up later, but he's happy. I don't have time to deal with a couple of hours of screaming while getting dinner done and cleaned up etc. Sure there are things that can be done, but maybe you are running out of energy at that hour. I know I am. Long day of school and still dinner to do and barely had time to take care of *my* basic needs like eating and going to the bathroom. Days are HARD. I would not like to have to be super-vigilant at night too. I relax because I've been hyper-vigilant all day making sure the math problems were done and the papers are logical and legible. I run out of steam about 7pm. I don't need the house to be quiet and kid free, I just need to be left alone. I put the littles to bed at 8. The older boys are up til 9:30.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

THAT is exactly the issue! He WON'T come up with a plan (or can't)! And so, by default, it is my responsibility. He asks me to "support him"...but what is there to support? There is NO disciplinary measure in place..it changes every night based on how tired dh is or how frustrated he already is! Some nights he yells at the top of his lungs, others he just goes to bed and tries to ignore it, others he sits in the lr and plays "guard" until all is quiet, others he takes allowance away (but doesn't really follow through), others he makes bedtime earlier the next night (but again, doesn't follow through). My suggestions are poo-pooed. I'm really frustrated. Can you tell? :glare: I'm so tired of him WANTING everything to be structured and "in order" but not being willing to HELP ACCOMPLISH that. For example...on the days he is working from home...if he really wanted the kids up by a certain time...he could rouse them. OR he could talk to me and TELL me this is what he wants (other than during an argument). Ugh...this is pointless.

 

It sounds like the "bedtime" problem isn't really about bedtime. It's about what is acceptable after "bedtime" and what the consequences will be. You both need to discuss what is acceptable and what isn't and have consistent consequences in place that you both follow every night.

[silliness7]

Bedtime is a "symptom" of a larger, deeper, more prevalent problem. We will be seeing a counselor (albeit my husband's individual counselor :glare: b/c our insurance won't cover marriage therapy :glare:).

 

Our church supports a wonderful counseling center that is pay as you go and pay what you can. I wonder if there is something like that in your community?

[silliness7]

Sue are you still homeschooling your kiddos? I assume you are but see people on here who aren't, so I don't want to assume.

 

Just as a follow-up to my other post, I wonder if your dh realizes that being a homeschool mom or him having a homeschool family is not going to be the same as maybe the home he came from with a stay-at-home mom and all the kids in school. I'm assuming here. That was my childhood. Perhaps his mom worked or even homeschooled. No idea.

 

I find homeschooling a crew takes sooooo much stinkin' energy it's not even funny. Does your dh realize and appreciate this? Like I said, I'm exhausted at the end of a school day. I think I'd be more refreshed if I'd been at an office all day. At least the dynamic and people and problems would be different. Homeschool dads don't get as much down time as they would if their women stayed home and the kids went to school. But that only makes sense. Cause momma certainly isn't getting much down time. He may need to take a good look at his expectations and see if they're reasonable.

[nukeswife]

I guess I'm the opposite of most that have responded. I think your dh is being a bit over the top about the whole noise issue. If kids being in their room doing something like listening to an audio book (as long as it at a normal volume level) or music, reading a book, someone quietly getting a snack (not making a 4 course meal) is too much for him it sounds like it's his issue and maybe he should invest in a good pair of noise cancelling head phones.

 

I'm sorry but kids are noisy creatures and if you have kids it's just something you deal with.

 

My dh is gone a lot for work (he's military) and because of that he fits into our routine when he's around, he doesn't expect us to suddenly change our personalities or habits just because he's home. That sounds a bit selfish to me.

 

I understand wanting down time and some quiet after a hard day, but if you need it to be middle of nowhere, nothing but the crickets chirping quiet and nobody else in the house needs that, then again that's his issue to deal with not everyone else.

[Heidi]

:

THAT is exactly the issue! He WON'T come up with a plan (or can't)! And so, by default, it is my responsibility. He asks me to "support him"...but what is there to support? There is NO disciplinary measure in place..it changes every night based on how tired dh is or how frustrated he already is! Some nights he yells at the top of his lungs, others he just goes to bed and tries to ignore it, others he sits in the lr and plays "guard" until all is quiet, others he takes allowance away (but doesn't really follow through), others he makes bedtime earlier the next night (but again, doesn't follow through). My suggestions are poo-pooed. I'm really frustrated. Can you tell? :glare: I'm so tired of him WANTING everything to be structured and "in order" but not being willing to HELP ACCOMPLISH that. For example...on the days he is working from home...if he really wanted the kids up by a certain time...he could rouse them. OR he could talk to me and TELL me this is what he wants (other than during an argument). Ugh...this is pointless.[/quote

 

But it sounds like he is not home to be consistent (if he wanted to be consistent). You ARE home. Whether either of you like it or not, you ARE in charge of the family's routine. Since dh is all about making demands and not helping, it is solely up to you to choose to accommodate him or not. And that choice has its consequences too.

:grouphug:

 

About rousing in the morning: give your oldest teen an alrm clock. That teen is in charge of rousing and taking care of the kids in the morning. Responsibility is good for them.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

 

About rousing in the morning: give your oldest teen an alrm clock. That teen is in charge of rousing and taking care of the kids in the morning. Responsibility is good for them.

 

If you (or dh) want the kids up earlier in the morning they could each have their own alarm clocks. We have one for each of the kids' rooms (3yo and 7yo share and 1yo and 5yo share). DH and I set them for 6:30am, but they shut them off in the morning and turn them back on before bedtime.

[JessReplanted]

Well, I'm a firm believer in early bedtimes and quiet time in the evening.

Honestly, I'd have all of your kids going to bed much earlier.

 

My kids (8, 5, 4) are in bed every night around 7. And the 8 year old is allowed to read quietly in his room until 8pm.

 

And, for older kids - I'd want them in their rooms by 9 (if not earlier) and lights out by 10pm. (Although, as long as kids are being quiet, I tend to be more flexible with lights out times).

 

I can completely understand your husband's POV. I am someone who needs quiet time. I need to know that I am 'off'. And, my husband and I need time alone together.

[JessReplanted]

Try starting prep earlier. Have everyone in their beds by 930. That leaves half an hour for them to really settle down.

My grandmother always said that she went off duty at 7. Kids were expected to be in their rooms then for the night. I wish she was still alive b/c I'd love to ask her HOW she did this.

 

This is basically what we do. And we just do it by doing it. We allow flexibility for certain nights (home group night) or special events. But, for the most part, our kids are in their rooms right around 7 and they know that we don't want to be bothered.

[Sue G in PA]

Just to be upfront...I'm looking for suggestions...so I am not offended by ANY comment here. :) Just in case some were thinking their comments have offended. I'm good. :001_smile: I'm not a morning person, admittedly. :) I have never been. I scheduled classes in college that started at 9am at the EARLIEST b/c I have never been able to be up and FUNCTIONAL any earlier than say 8. I drive my Amish friends sometimes at 6am...and it takes tons of coffee...just to make sure I don't drive off the road. :001_huh: Dh has always been more of a morning person. Always.

 

To address what some pp had asked about his childhood...his father was a dr. (they were rich), his mother was a SAHM with a MAID. :glare: His mother was also a ball of stress, moster-yeller, loved to play the martyr, etc., made everyone else super-tense kind of a mother. 3 kids in the home...all at least 5 years apart. I came from a family of 4 (2 kids). This large family dynamic, keeper of the home, homeschooling thing? TOTALLY FEELING MY WAY IN THE DARK! So is dh.

 

Homeschooling IS exhausting. Dh doesn't get that. He thinks that if I can't handle it (meaning that I can't handle homeschooling without feeling exhausted and making sure everything is just "so" for him) then I shouldn't do it. He uses the term "we" but he really means ME b/c he does about 1% of the schooling. Anyway, I'm prayerfully considering all suggestions, looking inward to things I can change w/out causing myself to burn out and really, really trying to make this work. BUt I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.

[annandatje]

If bedtime isn't really the issue, then no matter what you do about bedtime, the issue won't be resolved. :grouphug:

:iagree: It sounds like marriage or family counseling would be in order.

[sewingmama]

I'm curious why the teens need supervision getting ready for bed -- at that age they should be responsible for themselves.

 

I think a 10 pm bedtime is reasonable for that age group - Gosh -I can't stay up that late without being grumpy the next day :D

 

I would put the littles to bed earlier and tell the olders to be in their rooms by 9.30. Then they have time to wind down before bed.