How do you deal with little white lies from your kids?

[Celia]

My 7 year old has recently started lying (he never did this before, presumably he's a little late on developing this ability due to being on the autism spectrum). Last night he lied about doing his math practice on our online program, which is required for him to earn game time. Obvious punishment was to take the games away for a few days. At the time, I told him that next time he lied, he would lose them for a week.

 

So, today, he showed up at gymnastics with no socks on (which I told him to put on before we left). He said he was out. Putting laundry away today I find that he is not out of socks. He was just being lazy and lied.

 

I was discussing this with my mom, and she thinks I'm being too harsh by taking away his video games time (including a new one that he got for Christmas) for lying about socks. I feel like I have to nip this habit right away and follow through with what I said the consequences would be.

 

What would you do?

 

How do you deal with your kids lying? This is new ground for me!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, our gymnastics doesn't allow socks, so to me, it would not be a battle to begin with. But he lied and you already told him the consequence. I would follow through.

[KristenR]

Well, our gymnastics doesn't allow socks, so to me, it would not be a battle to begin with. But he lied and you already told him the consequence. I would follow through.

 

Agreed, if you already warned him of a consequence I would follow through with it.

 

I too noticed my dd5 making little fibs. Nothing big or devious but I also wonder how to go about handling it.

 

I'd love to hear about others who have already gone through this.

 

:bigear:

[5kidsforME]

I think you need to follow through.

 

IMO, there is no such thing as little white lies and fibs.

 

They are lies. Period.

[Daisy]

Well, our gymnastics doesn't allow socks, so to me, it would not be a battle to begin with. But he lied and you already told him the consequence. I would follow through.

 

:iagree:

 

I think the punishment is appropriate. I think your son's behavior is developmentally appropriate but not acceptable. I say that just so you breath a sign of relief and don't start visualizing him in a jail cell. :lol:

 

When my kids hit that age, I did my best to avoid putting them in situations where they could lie. If he had no socks on and he was supposed to wear them, we'd go straight to consequence. Skip the whole, "Why did/didn't you..." which inevitably leads to a lie.

 

In my house, lying means your punishment is doubled. So whatever the consequence would have been for disobedience (not putting on socks when told to do so) would have been doubled.

[NotSoObvious]

My dd did this when she was that age. It was a phase, but a long, painful one. I'm not sure if anything we did actually helped, but she doesn't do it anymore.

 

There was always a consequence and we had lots of discussions about trust. For instance, if she had lied to me that day, that night I'd ask her if she brushed her teeth. When she told me yes, I'd say, "Did you really brush them? Because earlier you told me you had done xyz, but you really didn't, so now I'm having trouble trusting you." This kind of logic worked really well with dd because she's very verbal and emotional, loves to talk and cares very much about relationships, so it seemed to work well for her. She definitely sees the connection between lying and trust, that's for sure.

 

My other dd who is delayed and scored just low enough on the ADOS to NOT get a spectrum diagnosis, was about a year behind her twin in the lying phase. For her, keeping all issues very black and white/right and wrong, and having consequences was the best route.

 

Good luck! I HATE lying.

[dirty ethel rackham]

When my kids were younger, I treated it like fantasy. They wish that were true to I treated it like that. But, it often involved pretending things that were not in their favor as well. "Oh, some fairy just put these socks here? Gee, what other things did the fairy do? Ah, dishes that I know I put away before we left are back in the sink. You'd better put these away before the fairy comes back and takes something else out." They know I am on to them,and they get a consequence of another chore or something, but it avoids a confrontation where the offender digs in his heels and allows him to save face. Now that the kids are older, they get an "Oh, really?!?!" or a loud "AHEM" with an arched eyebrow, which gives them a chance to fess up.

 

I don't think the video games was necessarily a harsh consequence, but I found that, with my kids, a punitive attitude overall on my part created more misbehavior and set up a vicious cycle. What I mean by "punitive attitude" is one where "every misdeed must be punished or else my kids will end up as delinquents" kind of thinking. Grace, talking, and making up for the misdeed went farther to correct the behavior in the long run.

Edited December 30, 2011 by dirty ethel rackham

[Aurelia]

You told him what the consequence would be if he repeated the behavior. He did it again, so you should follow through, otherwise he may begin to believe you won't follow through on your word and the behavior can escalate. (Admittedly, I'm a hard-nose when it comes to stuff like this, DH tells me so. I still believe in maintaining consequences and keeping my promises. Ariel knows she can't get away with anything with me, but she can get out of punishments DH says threatens.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I read this somewhere else long ago and agreed with it: Lying in little kids is a matter of testing their own power. Can they really make things happen with their words? Can they avoid disapproval or change outcomes by what they say? Lying is the most magical part of childhood for a minute there, before the shoe falls. (In other words, before they learn the consequences of lying.)

 

As parents we must teach the immorality and dangers of lying, but we start by short-circuiting the magic of it.

 

When one of my children first starts lying to me, the first thing I do is to remove all his opportunities to lie. For one thing, I don't ask questions that allow for lying. "Did you pack your gym socks?" That can be answered with a lie. "Let me see your gym socks," can't.

 

If he comes to me and tells me a fact, whether I think it's a lie or not (he says he put the clothes away, or he killed a tiger in his room, for example), I promptly get up and say, "Oh? Show me." Not accusingly or distrustingly, just reinforcing that Mama does verify statements.

 

As you go through life point out how you trust big brother or Daddy because they always tell the truth. Use movies and books to reinforce honesty as a positive character quality. Offer mild praise and approval when your child tells you the truth when it would be easier or more convenient for him to lie. Lessen or remove consequences for mistakes if you hear about it first from him.

 

Do think of reasonable consequences of lying and always follow through (proving your own honesty) but have the ongoing calm conversation be the most prominent way of dealing with this. Sometimes parents get into this sin/punishment cycle with kids that gets really ugly and ineffective, so don't start there.

[rwjx2khsmj]

My only bit of advice is to tie the consequences to the inappropriate action. It makes sense to lose game time for lying about somethings that ties to games. It makes less sense to lose game time for lying about socks. In my experiences, consequences that are related to the crime make more sense to a child and make more of an impression.

[Guest submarines]

I read this somewhere else long ago and agreed with it: Lying in little kids is a matter of testing their own power. Can they really make things happen with their words? Can they avoid disapproval or change outcomes by what they say? Lying is the most magical part of childhood for a minute there, before the shoe falls. (In other words, before they learn the consequences of lying.)

 

As parents we must teach the immorality and dangers of lying, but we start by short-circuiting the magic of it.

 

When one of my children first starts lying to me, the first thing I do is to remove all his opportunities to lie. For one thing, I don't ask questions that allow for lying. "Did you pack your gym socks?" That can be answered with a lie. "Let me see your gym socks," can't.

 

If he comes to me and tells me a fact, whether I think it's a lie or not (he says he put the clothes away, or he killed a tiger in his room, for example), I promptly get up and say, "Oh? Show me." Not accusingly or distrustingly, just reinforcing that Mama does verify statements.

 

As you go through life point out how you trust big brother or Daddy because they always tell the truth. Use movies and books to reinforce honesty as a positive character quality. Offer mild praise and approval when your child tells you the truth when it would be easier or more convenient for him to lie. Lessen or remove consequences for mistakes if you hear about it first from him.

 

Do think of reasonable consequences of lying and always follow through (proving your own honesty) but have the ongoing calm conversation be the most prominent way of dealing with this. Sometimes parents get into this sin/punishment cycle with kids that gets really ugly and ineffective, so don't start there.

 

:iagree:

[OrganicAnn]

I always thought a "white lie" was one people told to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Do you like my new hair style? Sure grandma you look great with blue hair.

 

I would really think about what consequences you want to enforce for lying. Make sure you yourself understand all the implications (can't go to movie/ice cream shop/grandma's if he/she lies, but then you have to keep other kids from the movie/ice cream shop/grandma's and then you feel guilty and allow everyone to go - this is an example of not thinking through the consequences). Then I would some quiet time talk about the consequences and why lying is bad. Then be consistent with applying the consequences. I don't think spur of the moment decisions on consequences is a good idea.

[LaxMom]

I always thought a "white lie" was one people told to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Do you like my new hair style? Sure grandma you look great with blue hair.

It is. And that is very different than side-stepping a rule or covering defiance, in my book.

 

While I do agree that more natural consequences make the consequence more memorable (ie, taking away video games when he lied about finishing math to play them), I don't think the consequences you warned would happen are in any way over the top. And you can use that new spare time to talk about honesty and ethics.

 

And, yeah, it's developmentally appropriate, albeit offensive, behavior.

[ErinE]

Follow through with the consequences, but I agree with Tibbie Dunbar in not giving him an opportunity to lie.

[Little Nyssa]

I have a 7 yr old too who has just started this (he is neurotypical-- is that the right word? I mean he is not on the autism spectrum at all.)

I would tell him that I have to check up on what he tells me more than usual since I am having trouble trusting what he says.

And, I am a great fan of having consequences be immediate-- not something that happens over several days or a week. Then they forget what it was all about. Missing dessert at the next meal, or a time out, or missing your computer time which was supposed to start in the next hour... things like that.

 

But sometimes, I just laugh. "Did you put on your socks? No you didn't! You silly, go back and do it now." Honestly, I don't think it is worth making too big a deal about, when it is just a child who is just testing the world as he grows.

[2squared]

I feel like an anomaly here, but I don't throw the gauntlet at lies. When they are little, I matter-of-factly notify them when they tell untruths. I believe they are still trying to discern the difference between what is truth, what they want to be truth, and what is clearly not truth. My goal at this age is to educate them on what level of truthfulness I expect and to let them know that I know when they lie.

 

If my 7yo lied about the socks, I must admit that I wouldn't punish my little guy. First, if wearing socks was a requirement, we would have resolved the issue before we left the house. If it's wearing socks isn't important enough for me to correct before we leave the house, then I really shouldn't have made it a requirement. KWIM? Anyway, I would have looked him in the eye, called his lie, and discussed how he should have handled the situation. If he didn't want to wear socks, then that conversation needs to happen before we leave the house. For a long time after, I would purposefully check his socks before we walked out of the house. His consequence would be the loss of trust and having me check his feet before we leave the house every.single.time.

 

You know, though, my kids really don't have many opportunities to lie. I hope this is helping them to build a habit of truthfulness and to experience the benefits of truthfulness. I am spoiled a little in this area since my 7yo is a high functioning aspie. I don't think he could lie if he wanted to. Sometimes I wish he was a little less truthful. :)

[jhschool]

You don't want a kid who lies. You are

doing the right thing by giving consequences.

 

Taking away video game time is NOT a harsh

punishment!

 

He doesn't need video games to survive.

 

If you sent him to bed without dinner I would

say you are wrong.

 

But what you are doing is the right thing to do.

[Guest submarines]

 

If my 7yo lied about the socks, I must admit that I wouldn't punish my little guy. First, if wearing socks was a requirement, we would have resolved the issue before we left the house. If it's wearing socks isn't important enough for me to correct before we leave the house, then I really shouldn't have made it a requirement. KWIM? Anyway, I would have looked him in the eye, called his lie, and discussed how he should have handled the situation. If he didn't want to wear socks, then that conversation needs to happen before we leave the house. For a long time after, I would purposefully check his socks before we walked out of the house. His consequence would be the loss of trust and having me check his feet before we leave the house every.single.time.

 

. :)

 

:iagree:(bolded mine)

[Farrar]

My only bit of advice is to tie the consequences to the inappropriate action. It makes sense to lose game time for lying about somethings that ties to games. It makes less sense to lose game time for lying about socks. In my experiences, consequences that are related to the crime make more sense to a child and make more of an impression.

 

:iagree: That's pretty much how I think about it. And the more immediate the consequence, the better.

 

However, you say your son is on the autism spectrum, and my experience as a school teacher taught me that while I may like this kind of connected, logical consequence and lots of words so forth and it may work better for many kids, it's often better for kids on the autism spectrum to have more set, behavior modification style consequences.

[sewingmama]

When my kids were younger, I treated it like fantasy. They wish that were true to I treated it like that. But, it often involved pretending things that were not in their favor as well. "Oh, some fairy just put these socks here? Gee, what other things did the fairy do? Ah, dishes that I know I put away before we left are back in the sink. You'd better put these away before the fairy comes back and takes something else out." They know I am on to them,and they get a consequence of another chore or something, but it avoids a confrontation where the offender digs in his heels and allows him to save face. Now that the kids are older, they get an "Oh, really?!?!" or a loud "AHEM" with an arched eyebrow, which gives them a chance to fess up.

 

I don't think the video games was necessarily a harsh consequence, but I found that, with my kids, a punitive attitude overall on my part created more misbehavior and set up a vicious cycle. What I mean by "punitive attitude" is one where "every misdeed must be punished or else my kids will end up as delinquents" kind of thinking. Grace, talking, and making up for the misdeed went farther to correct the behavior in the long run.

 

 

:iagree:

 

That's how we deal with it here - my 2 oldest are just beginning to test the waters with lies. I just look them straight in the eye and say "Are you sure that's what happened because if I find out the opposite (and then pause)... and most times they backtrack and say "Whoops I made a mistake I meant to say ...." and I let them off the hook if they admit the truth.

 

If they lie again to me and I find out the truth then they get a small consequence for not telling the truth for eg. if they tell me they cleaned their room and when I check they didn't the consequence is that whatever they are doing they have to stop and go clean up now and I won't help them like I usually do - they have to do it alone. Really when kids are little they are just trying to figure out how much they can get away with and if they figure Mum will find out anyway they usually tell the truth because a lie is not worth it.

 

I don't make a big song and dance out of it.

 

My mother was very strict about lying and gave big consequences - in the end it didn't make a bit of difference to how we turned out as adults. I never told lies - not because of the consequence - but because I was a shy kid who was petrified of what others would think of me if I was caught out in a lie. I still can't lie at all as an adult. I have a brother who recieved the harsh consequences and as an adult he is the biggest lier around. Not one person in our family believes a word he says - when talking about something he said everybody always tacks onto the end "Well if you can believe what he is saying ... that is". Consequences didn't do a thing to stop him lying and they weren't necessary for me who just didn't lie anyway whether there was a consequence or not.

Edited December 30, 2011 by sewingmama

[Laura in MI]

My only bit of advice is to tie the consequences to the inappropriate action. It makes sense to lose game time for lying about somethings that ties to games. It makes less sense to lose game time for lying about socks. In my experiences, consequences that are related to the crime make more sense to a child and make more of an impression.

 

:iagree:

[eternalknot]

I think you need to follow through.

 

IMO, there is no such thing as little white lies and fibs.

 

They are lies. Period.

 

I agree about the importance of following through, but I differentiate degrees and types of lies. My kids see me lie to other people, so it's important for me to distinguish types of lies to them. Honestly, sometimes it's more appropriate to lie - at least in my social circle and line of work. What we focus on isn't the lie per se, but the motive behind it.

 

The motive behind the lie told by the OP is one that requires discipline, for sure; but IMO it's not the same as sparing Aunt Sally's feelings about the wretched meal she's prepared for us or the old-lady twinset she bought be for my birthday. We have a few Aunt Sallys in our family LOL, so like I said - my kids see me lie on a regular basis :tongue_smilie:. Motive matters.

 

... and I agree with Tibbie's entire post. Great post. That's how we do things here, for the most part. The most important tip from her post (IMO) is to remember that the goal of discplining a lying child shouldn't be to punish but to teach them not to lie at all; during that (sometimes long!) process there'll be times a child will lie, then confess to it of his own volition. That's a step in the right direction, and should be considered when disciplining and discussing individual incidents.

 

My only bit of advice is to tie the consequences to the inappropriate action. It makes sense to lose game time for lying about somethings that ties to games. It makes less sense to lose game time for lying about socks. In my experiences, consequences that are related to the crime make more sense to a child and make more of an impression.

 

:iagree: with this, too.

 

There are certain things I feel my kids should be doing on their own, at any given age. In my house, socks for gymnastics would be one of those things. A regular requirement for an on-going extracurricular shouldn't need more than a quick reminder from me, as we're leaving. We've had similar incidents here, and it's annoying.

 

I give my kids a few freebies because hey, things happen. I'm not perfect, either. But when I see a habit forming, I take action. I expect reimbursement for my time when I've driven to a class that the kids cannot participate in because they've not come prepared. Sometimes it's the cost of the class (tuition breakdown) in cash, which they always have; sometimes it's earned by work around the house -- they've wasted my time, so they have to help make up some of the slack. Then I have to "babysit" them for awhile, which I hate; every time we leave the house: "Show me your gear," and no more getting it on their own before they leave, when I ask to see it they need to drop whatever they're doing and get it right then. They hate it as much as I do, and it usually nips it in the bud.

 

I hang up a chart for each kid on the back door. We have five kids here, each doing 2-4 activities so I do a lot of dropping off and running around. It's basically a visual checklist, and when I say: "Leaving in five, get your gear," they can visually verify against the checklist everything they need for that day. It's one last step for before the car to make sure they haven't forgotten anything. For a kid "in trouble" we'll verbally go down the list before walking out the door - I read, he shows me his gear. Might that work? In our house this step means the kid is the last one in the car, and gets stuck riding ... um, rhymes-with-witch LOL. That alone is incentive!

[ma23peas]

What worked??

 

LYING BACK!!!

 

I would say I was going to make brownies after dinner..then did not...

 

I would say we would stop by McDonald's..then did not...

 

I would tell them they could do xyz, then did not...it only took about 2-3 of these things to show them how disappointed they were when they found out my 'little white lie'...to them it may not be a big thing, but to the person they're telling it to...it has a big impact...we talked about how God never lied to us, because He holds truths to be of utmost importance..I then asked for their forgiveness for lying and hugged them, and then we went and had McDonald's and brownies and went to the park....a pretty big lesson...and it stuck.