Talk to me about skipping grades

[MSNative]

We homeschool and had planned on hsing all the kids. DS4 is throwing us for a loop though. He is pg - teaching himself algebra now, loves playing with numbers, writes very well, read comprehension is at about a 3rd grade level. I am fine keeping him home and letting him cruise through curricula. (And when I say fine, I mean completely panicked, feel like I'm letting him or the other kids down all the time, have no idea what I'm doing, but fine.) However, his preschool teacher ('cause I don't home preschool) has recommended that we meet with the school about skipping him a few grades. We umbrella with the school, so I need to figure it out for grade registration even if we still homeschool him, which we probably would.

 

Anyone had experience with skipping several grades - particularly on the graduating end? How 'bout with how it affects testing? We have to test annually. Want to help me come up with a pro and con list for both?

 

Hope this made sense. I appreciate any help y'all can give.

[melmichigan]

When my DD was in public school we had to start her early and skip her ahead to have any attempt at interest on her part, even then it wasn't ideal. Since we now homeschool, and plan to through high school, it makes no difference what grade she is in, we meet her where she is in each subject. She is actually taking a form of a gap year this year, running with more of her interests and working on writing skills. I don't see the need to push her through the material just to get done like they were doing in the public school. I would like to continue to go deeper and wider and have her graduate more in line with her age group but that much more prepared to go forward. Besides, there are so many curriculum options out there, I might as well take advantage of as many of them as possible. ;)

[Ellie]

We homeschool and had planned on hsing all the kids. DS4 is throwing us for a loop though. He is pg - teaching himself algebra now, loves playing with numbers, writes very well, read comprehension is at about a 3rd grade level. I am fine keeping him home and letting him cruise through curricula. (And when I say fine, I mean completely panicked, feel like I'm letting him or the other kids down all the time, have no idea what I'm doing, but fine.) However, his preschool teacher ('cause I don't home preschool) has recommended that we meet with the school about skipping him a few grades. We umbrella with the school, so I need to figure it out for grade registration even if we still homeschool him, which we probably would.

 

Anyone had experience with skipping several grades - particularly on the graduating end? How 'bout with how it affects testing? We have to test annually. Want to help me come up with a pro and con list for both?

 

Hope this made sense. I appreciate any help y'all can give.

Here's the thing:

 

Of course you should teach him at his ability and interest. That's one of the bestest things about homeschooling. :D

 

Most homeschooled children work at different levels in different academic areas.

 

HOWEVER, when you have to put a grade level label on your ds, begin with the one that he would be in if he were in school. Do NOT officially skip him on paper until you have verifiable proof that he is capable of doing so.

 

During the years that I was the owner/administrator of a homeschool umbrella, there were a couple of situations where parents either moved their dc ahead or held them back *on paper.* As long as they were homeschooling, that was irrelevant. The problem came about when they put their children in school. One of the children I had allowed his parents to skip a grade went to school the following year; a couple of months into the school year his teacher called and asked how I had come to decide that, because he was struggling in class. (This young man later began taking classes at the community college when he was 14 and excelled academically; I'm thinking it was a school problem and not a child problem, KWIM? :) )

 

Anyway, I would start out with your dc "entering kindergarten" when he's 5, and testing at his appropriate grade level until you can document the fact that he is capable of working above his "grade level." That way you have something to back you up if he goes to school at a later date and you want him placed in a higher grade level than his age peers.

 

I can't tell you about graduating. I don't have a problem with children graduating before they are 18--IOW, with fewer than 12 years of Official School, because how did people come to decide that 12 was the magic number?? I would expect that you and he and your dh would make decisions about things like your ds's going off to college at 14 or not, KWIM? (Your compulsory education code might not allow you to quit reporting annually until he's 16 or older, anyway.)

[Staceyshoe]

:bigear:

 

My ds did one whole grade acceleration in ps and was slated for another one when we decided to homeschool. He's officially listed as 2nd grade (at age 6), but is doing anywhere from 3rd to 8th grade work depending on the subject. At some point, I suspect we'll be doing another grade skip.

 

I love that we can individual hsing for our dc's abilities and needs! After all, that's why I'm homeschooling. Even so, I get overwhelmed when I look at ds's educational trajectory.

 

It sounds like your child will be ready for college early. College scholarships are often reserved for full-time freshman students. If your child has too many college credits before they start full-time college, you may have to decide between a scholarship and not transferring credits earned or being disqualified from scholarship to keep credits.

 

I know there are options however you choose to proceed. There are early entrance to college programs, gap year plans, distance learning, and mentoring that can work for you whether you choose to grade skip again or not. We recently did a big psychoeducation eval and the psychologist emphasized that it will be impossible to meet ds's needs without early college. (Ds is also PG.) We recently applied for the Young Scholars program, so I'll be interested in hearing their recommendations for how/when/why to grade skip. There is a Davidson forum that is open to the public, and they may have some good suggestions for you.

 

I'm :bigear: in on this as well. There's a lot of experience and wisdom on this board!

[EKS]

If you officially skip him, you want to be sure that he is placed so that he will be able to do the work *well* (say at the 85th percentile or higher) in a *classroom* setting. This means that he needs to have not only the ability to understand the material at the higher level, he needs to have the fluency (reading, writing, math facts), stamina, and organizational skills to produce at that level. And he needs to be able to maintain these things at the same pace as the kids in the higher grade. And then there are the issues on the other end. Do you want him to graduate when he is 16? If you skip him now, that's what's going to happen.

 

Waiting to do an official skip will give you time to see how things develop. If you're homeschooling him, you can let him fly. And then, if you find you need to put him in school at some future point, you can place him where he fits best. (Of course, once you've let him fly for several years, there will be no "best" placement, as he will likely be much farther ahead academically than would be reasonable to skip.)

[Dmmetler]

DD is also PG. We did an early entry to K, starting DD at age 4, with the support and recommendation of the school where she was in preschool (which was a PK-8th grade school). She's currently listed as a 2nd grader, having just turned 7, but is doing 4th-9th grade work, and our cover school has suggested skipping her again, because in our state dual enrollment is paid for, but only in the last two years of high school, and you can't skip during high school. I'm reluctant to skip too much, though, because she wants to compete in the national spelling bee when she's old enough, and eligibility is a concern.

 

For DD, the 1 year grade skip was about right socially and emotionally. She gets along much better with kids who are older than she is, and even then, tended to make friends with the oldest kids in the class. Ever since then, even when I've placed her by age, she tends to get bumped up because socially she just plain does better as an "older kid", so having the documented grade skip is a good thing for that reason-it means that she could be a 2nd grader in a dance team where the youngest kids except for her were turning 8 early in the school year, not a 6 1/2 yr old.

[Scuff]

You need to be careful to consider the developmental/social readiness of the child as well. My uncle was grade skipped for 7 & 8th grades. Essentially, this meant that he went from 6th grade elementary straight into high school. He ended up getting into a bad crowd and dropped out. Obviously this is an extreme example. I've heard people here say to call them whatever grade they would be in and do whatever level work they need to do. I've used that advice with my third and it works quite well. We don't use an umbrella, though. I don't know how they work exactly. Good luck! Mine are not pg and they still keep me on my toes. I'm always unsure about something we're doing. It does get easier.

[MSNative]

Here's the thing:

 

Of course you should teach him at his ability and interest. That's one of the bestest things about homeschooling. :D

 

Most homeschooled children work at different levels in different academic areas.

 

HOWEVER, when you have to put a grade level label on your ds, begin with the one that he would be in if he were in school. Do NOT officially skip him on paper until you have verifiable proof that he is capable of doing so.

 

During the years that I was the owner/administrator of a homeschool umbrella, there were a couple of situations where parents either moved their dc ahead or held them back *on paper.* As long as they were homeschooling, that was irrelevant. The problem came about when they put their children in school. One of the children I had allowed his parents to skip a grade went to school the following year; a couple of months into the school year his teacher called and asked how I had come to decide that, because he was struggling in class. (This young man later began taking classes at the community college when he was 14 and excelled academically; I'm thinking it was a school problem and not a child problem, KWIM? :) )

 

Anyway, I would start out with your dc "entering kindergarten" when he's 5, and testing at his appropriate grade level until you can document the fact that he is capable of working above his "grade level." That way you have something to back you up if he goes to school at a later date and you want him placed in a higher grade level than his age peers.

 

I can't tell you about graduating. I don't have a problem with children graduating before they are 18--IOW, with fewer than 12 years of Official School, because how did people come to decide that 12 was the magic number?? I would expect that you and he and your dh would make decisions about things like your ds's going off to college at 14 or not, KWIM? (Your compulsory education code might not allow you to quit reporting annually until he's 16 or older, anyway.)

 

thanks everyone for the great info. Y'all have def. talked me down from my panic. Just register him at age appropriate level, hs him to let him do what he needs to and don't worry so much.

 

I am learning a lot from reading everyone's thoughts so please keep them coming.

[MSNative]

You need to be careful to consider the developmental/social readiness of the child as well. My uncle was grade skipped for 7 & 8th grades. Essentially, this meant that he went from 6th grade elementary straight into high school. He ended up getting into a bad crowd and dropped out. Obviously this is an extreme example. I've heard people here say to call them whatever grade they would be in and do whatever level work they need to do. I've used that advice with my third and it works quite well. We don't use an umbrella, though. I don't know how they work exactly. Good luck! Mine are not pg and they still keep me on my toes. I'm always unsure about something we're doing. It does get easier.

 

This is one of my big concerns. He's not socially advanced at all. Sorry to hear your uncle had such a bad time of it. Thank you for sharing, though.

[catz]

Do you "need" to use an umbrella school? I'm currently calling both my kids grade level but neither is close to their grade level in terms of actual work. I wouldn't make that skip until you need to. It does work great for some kids, but I've chatted with a couple local GT families recently who undid a skip at the 7th/8th grade level because their kids were struggling socially, with output requirements, and they had found meaningful enrichment for their kids. It really varies by the child, but I think it would hard to know if you should skip a 4 year old.

[Crimson Wife]

The output issue is the biggest one in our HS. I've found that I need to heavily modify programs that are more than 2-3 grade levels ahead. Cognitively my kids may be perfectly able to handle the material but their physical writing ability is no where near able to produce the output. So I keep them registered in the grade corresponding to their age. DD will be getting into high-school level math & science in the next year or two but I'm not going to count them for high school credit unless she makes dramatic leaps in her output capability. Instead, I'm going to list them as middle school honors courses.

[Scuff]

He's fine now. This was about 40 years ago. :) But it was a rough road for awhile. Thanks.

[higginszoo]

We've had skips and double skips in our family over several generations, and more suggested (including my older ds). Sometimes a one grade skip worked out ok, but sometimes even a double skip didn't provide the challenge needed, and it never worked out socially for anyone in the family who tried it (me included, on both the no challenge and the social issues). Most family members (including dh, the dc, myself, usually test most often as HG, though some scores have edged up into the PG range, especially with dh and older ds, probably younger dd, though she's untested).

 

My ds who was supposed to be double skipped when he was in school is just finishing his first two college classes, but is generally happy for many things that are more social to be considered to be halfway through eighth grade.

 

My second is working 1-2 years ahead, but wants to go back to public school for high school. While she could probably handle a single skip maturity-wise (if she had stayed in Catholic school, she would have been skipped in the middle of fourth grade), she's already a late July baby and is mature enough to see that she'd probably prefer not to be with kids almost two years older, so she has decided to stay with her age mates (we really did give her the choice, if she wanted to start high school this fall, we would work to make it happen).

 

My third is still working on incorporating some dyslexia coping skills. He was very advanced academically until he was 7 or so, and then that started to get in the way sometimes, so while he might have looked like a good candidate to skip when he was 4, it wouldn't have been a good plan by the time he was 8 or 9.

 

My youngest tends to be more socially mature, and is working 2 years ahead academically. For various reasons, it has made more sense to give her a single skip in social situations. She keeps on trying to tell people that she's in third grade, and I keep correcting to second, when age-wise she'd be in first. We may well put her in school in the next couple of years, and it will likely be a year ahead of where she 'should' be.

 

The nice thing about homeschooling is that what level of work they're doing rarely has to have anything to do with what grade you call them.

Edited December 21, 2011 by higginszoo

[acurtis75]

I see a trend of 1-2 years being ideal socially in the responses which is interesting to me because that's what I have found to work well in our case with social activities. My daughter is 6 (will be 7 in February) and would be in 1st grade in public school. I've found that at church and other group settings 2nd or 3rd grade to be the group she fits in socially well. It's still not too challenging intellectually and she seems to be the one who knows all the answers even with the older kids but she just seems more comfortable. I'm wondering if this will change as we get to the point where kids 2 grades up are pre-teens and in a much different place of maturity. I would be interested to hear from some parents of older kids. A lot of the responses on this board seem to be from parents with similar aged kids to my daughter.

 

Dh and I have spent a lot of our downtime this month discussing whether or not we're challenging our daughter enough in her schoolwork. It's hard to find the appropriate balance between encouraging her to work up to her ability level and pushing her too hard. I've skipped grade levels in some subjects (FLL,WWE, etc) and greatly accelerated others (math, reading) but it still feels like everything is just a little too easy for her. I waver between thinking I should relax because she is already several years ahead and thinking I should move faster to get to the point where it's more of challenge and she learns how to work hard.

[DandelionMom]

Both of my girls are PG and I highly recommend radical acceleration. With PG kids, they just do not fit into the standard mold, and tend to thrive better by working at their ability level, rather than the levels set by public institutions meant to meet the common mean. I know there are different opinions about multiple grade skips, but it has worked very well with our PG girls, ages 15 and 8.

[acurtis75]

Both of my girls are PG and I highly recommend radical acceleration. With PG kids, they just do not fit into the standard mold, and tend to thrive better by working at their ability level, rather than the levels set by public institutions meant to meet the common mean. I know there are different opinions about multiple grade skips, but it has worked very well with our PG girls, ages 15 and 8.

 

What type of situations did you radically accelerate them in and how far ahead did you put them. Right now, we don't do co-op or anything like that so I'm just dealing with things like AWANAS at church but over the next few years we'll probably start some classes at our local co-op. I considered putting her in their one-day classical school this year but we had already covered a lot of what they were covering for the 3rd grade.

[Iucounu]

I would take what the preschool teacher recommends with a grain of salt. He/she has most likely never dealt with this sort of situation before, and probably has little or no experience with grade-skipping. Multiple skips at once are more rarely recommended than doing several skips at different times. It would be folly to guess that a 4 or 5 year old could keep up with the writing requirements that would be no challenge for a normally developing 7 or 8 year old. Writing, the physical part of it, was the biggest hurdle for my six year old, who's currently working three years ahead. That said, I certainly understand the need to skip material that's already known, and think it's fairly commonplace for highly gifted kids to cover grades 1-3 in a trice. You don't want to limit your son.

 

The good part is that you can teach your son whatever you like in your homeschool. Nobody will punish you for teaching something that's years higher than the class in which he's registered. If you're worried about how he'll test, wait until you get a handle on how he tests; there's no rush. On the graduating end, I don't have any personal experience, but highly recommend reading "A Nation Deceived".

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I agree with Ellie and EKS.

 

thanks everyone for the great info. Y'all have def. talked me down from my panic. Just register him at age appropriate level, hs him to let him do what he needs to and don't worry so much.

 

I am learning a lot from reading everyone's thoughts so please keep them coming.

 

:grouphug:

 

You don't know yet how you'll handle higher grades. You might keep going full-tilt and graduate from high school at age 11, but you might not.

 

We sped through the early years, which was lots of fun, but my son hit the wall academically when he hit puberty. He lost interest in his typical academic habits. After some discussion and research we decided to stop accelerating and to go deeper instead. Broader, not faster. Three languages instead of two, for example. Five instruments. More networking within the community to find mentors and friends who are experts in his areas of interest. More extra-curriculars to help him be well-rounded and busy.

 

This has been a vastly successful approach for my son. He's having a wonderful teenage experience while still doing amazing things in the realm of classical homeschooling. I could have graduated him after 8th grade (he'd met our state requirements) and let him go on to college for more challenging study. I think I might have done that if he didn't really love his life as a homeschooled teen. To see him content and advancing is the best-case scenario, IMO. My big fears about his potential failure to assimilate have proved to be totally unfounded. He's happy. He has lots of friends and lives a very full and rewarding life. College will still be there in a few years.

 

I'd just be very leery of flagging a child as way ahead or way behind, when it seems the school people get really attached to those labels. Leave some room for slowing down in case that turns out to be the best course.

 

About Sunday school, homeschool co-ops, and other graded activities: We totally opted out of all of those scenarios. Early attempts were disastrous. It was like taking Doogie Howser to Romper Room. He would appear to be physically in pain, almost, if he had to sit through age-appropriate learning environments. He couldn't make friends when he was so embarrassed by the childishness of the lessons and activities. Naturally the other kids picked up on his discomfort. He was never bullied. Just ignored. I got him out of those environments before he could start wondering if there was something wrong with him.

 

When he was ten years old I tried again. This time he enjoyed being with the other kids, but the adults were the reason we gave up. People over-praise PG kids. They compliment them so much it becomes a kiss of death. I found those responses to be universal, and very unwholesome. Again, I took him out of graded activities, including Sunday School.

 

At age 15.5, he has learned how to connect with kids his own age. He's learned to look for common ground and shared interests. He's a real extrovert now! He swiftly makes friends of all ages and types wherever he goes. By removing him from settings where he felt so odd and out of place I gave him the space to grow into his own skin and like himself. He has confidence, poise, and a fabulous smile, so other people like him, too.

 

My youngest son (age 7) is also being kept out of peer environments except for taekwondo, park/play dates, and a little time spent with cousins who are also very gifted and homeschooled. He's so much like my oldest son that I think this will work well for him, but it is scary to choose this path. Definitely, we are on the road less traveled.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Tibbie Dunbar
typed 'introvert,' meant 'extrovert'

[acurtis75]

 

When he was ten years old I tried again. This time he enjoyed being with the other kids, but the adults were the reason we gave up. People over-praise PG kids. They compliment them so much it becomes a kiss of death. I found those responses to be universal, and very unwholesome. Again, I took him out of graded activities, including Sunday School.

.

 

We are in the middle of changing churches right now but at our previous church home the response of adults to dd was a real problem for me. The church is small and various age groups are often combined in one room. It's very obvious in that setting when the 6 year old knows the answers and pre-teens don't..this leads to the over-praising. I have been taking her to Awanas, a fine arts coop and Sunday school at a much larger church with more kids and I've found that is working better. With 100 kids in the room she can't answer every time even if she knows the answer. She really enjoys the social aspect even though the "lessons" are ridiculously easy for her. I don't think she even sees it as a learning situation. She just sees it as fun time. I assumed she would be bored in the classical coop and would try to make it social time too which is why I didn't sign her up.

 

I liked your comments out broader vs faster too. I'm not sure we need to rush but there's still the need for challenge.

[quark]

You don't know yet how you'll handle higher grades. You might keep going full-tilt and graduate from high school at age 11, but you might not.

 

We sped through the early years, which was lots of fun, but my son hit the wall academically when he hit puberty. He lost interest in his typical academic habits. After some discussion and research we decided to stop accelerating and to go deeper instead. Broader, not faster. Three languages instead of two, for example. Five instruments. More networking within the community to find mentors and friends who are experts in his areas of interest. More extra-curriculars to help him be well-rounded and busy.

 

This has been a vastly successful approach for my son. He's having a wonderful teenage experience while still doing amazing things in the realm of classical homeschooling. I could have graduated him after 8th grade (he'd met our state requirements) and let him go on to college for more challenging study. I think I might have done that if he didn't really love his life as a homeschooled teen. To see him content and advancing is the best-case scenario, IMO. My big fears about his potential failure to assimilate have proved to be totally unfounded. He's happy. He has lots of friends and lives a very full and rewarding life. College will still be there in a few years.

 

I'd just be very leery of flagging a child as way ahead or way behind, when it seems the school people get really attached to those labels. Leave some room for slowing down in case that turns out to be the best course.

 

This is so helpful Tibbie, thanks for sharing!

 

We are faced with the possibility of early college for our son, possibly at 12, 13, maybe even 11, or at least an advanced mentor-ship of sorts in math and science because I imagine I will be at my wits' end by that time. But I don't know if I'll be able to see him do college so early or whether he'll even want to. In the meanwhile, we continue to look for other areas to challenge him (eg. foreign languages, sports, how to write an outline lol).

 

To the OP, I suggest to follow your child's pace and ability level (and not necessarily skip grades). It's so hard to predict what will happen at 8 or 9 based on what they did at 4. Harder still, I imagine, to know what they'll be ready for and want to do at 12, 13 or 15, 16. But if you keep working with him at ability level, you know that you will have a child who still loves to learn no matter what. Good luck!

Edited December 19, 2011 by quark

[DandelionMom]

What type of situations did you radically accelerate them in and how far ahead did you put them. Right now, we don't do co-op or anything like that so I'm just dealing with things like AWANAS at church but over the next few years we'll probably start some classes at our local co-op. I considered putting her in their one-day classical school this year but we had already covered a lot of what they were covering for the 3rd grade.

 

 

Well we do almost all of our homeschooling at home and do not utilize a co-op or classical one-day program, but we accelerated all grades for both girls as follows, and as needed:

 

Oldest DD: radically accelerated starting in 1st grade...

Age 6:

Science - grade 5

English/Lit - grade 4-5 (she was reading at an 8th grade level though)

History - grade 2 (not her fav. topic)

Math - grade 2

 

She followed this sequence at a steady pace until she was 14, then decided that she wanted to start college courses. She is 15 and now enrolled in 2 colleges, 1 local for physics and 1 distance for mechanical engineering.

 

 

Youngest DD: radically accelerated from the beginning

 

 

Science - grade 4/5

English - grade 4/5

History- grade 4/5

Math - grade 4

 

We are about to do another skip because the English, History and Science materials are way too easy for her.

 

 

I find it gets really tricky finding an acceleration situation if it involved classes or co-ops. People generally do not approve of younger children in a class for older children. It is what it is. We just went with the flow and taught them ahead at home, then attended classes with the homeschool group for their age levels. It was easier that way, and my daughters didn't complain very much about it.

 

Hope that helps!

[acurtis75]

Well we do almost all of our homeschooling at home and do not utilize a co-op or classical one-day program, but we accelerated all grades for both girls as follows, and as needed:

 

Oldest DD: radically accelerated starting in 1st grade...

Age 6:

Science - grade 5

English/Lit - grade 4-5 (she was reading at an 8th grade level though)

History - grade 2 (not her fav. topic)

Math - grade 2

 

She followed this sequence at a steady pace until she was 14, then decided that she wanted to start college courses. She is 15 and now enrolled in 2 colleges, 1 local for physics and 1 distance for mechanical engineering.

 

 

Youngest DD: radically accelerated from the beginning

 

 

Science - grade 4/5

English - grade 4/5

History- grade 4/5

Math - grade 4

 

We are about to do another skip because the English, History and Science materials are way too easy for her.

 

 

I find it gets really tricky finding an acceleration situation if it involved classes or co-ops. People generally do not approve of younger children in a class for older children. It is what it is. We just went with the flow and taught them ahead at home, then attended classes with the homeschool group for their age levels. It was easier that way, and my daughters didn't complain very much about it.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Thanks for the response. It does help to see what others are doing. My daughter doesn't complain about being in 2nd grade programs at church so that's where she'll probably stay for now. We do most everything at home so we'll probably end up sticking with that for the next few years.

 

It looks like my acceleration is pretty close to what you have been doing. I am probably going to finish up the current curriculum and then evaluate another skip for English/lit. I'm not sure what her specific reading level is but she can pretty much read anything so I know I need to challenge her more in that area.

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is PG ? I've seen it a lot in this thread. Couldn't find it in the abbreviation sticky.

Thanks,

Julie

[quark]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is PG ?

 

Profoundly gifted. This article has helpful details:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Profoundly gifted. This article has helpful details:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

 

I love this, from the end of the linked article:

 

"What is right for the highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child varies widely with each child. The best thing that parents, educators, and others working with that child can do is to actually work with the child. Make adjustments, offer opportunities, and try new placements, even if they are not commonly used for most children. The highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child is not "most children." He is a unique individual, for whom modifications to the program must be made along the way, for both his gifted abilities and his learning disabilities.

 

 

And he deserves to be a child, to learn and play, to be taught and teach himself, to grow in physical, intellectual, social / emotional and spiritual ways, to adult-hood. Even if this means Kindergarten at 4, or high school 3 years early, or college courses at 12. And he deserves to play... in his own way, with his own friends, at his favorite games... no matter how different these are from what society sees as "appropriate" for a child of his age."

[DandelionMom]

I love this, from the end of the linked article:

 

"What is right for the highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child varies widely with each child. The best thing that parents, educators, and others working with that child can do is to actually work with the child. Make adjustments, offer opportunities, and try new placements, even if they are not commonly used for most children. The highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child is not "most children." He is a unique individual, for whom modifications to the program must be made along the way, for both his gifted abilities and his learning disabilities.

 

 

And he deserves to be a child, to learn and play, to be taught and teach himself, to grow in physical, intellectual, social / emotional and spiritual ways, to adult-hood. Even if this means Kindergarten at 4, or high school 3 years early, or college courses at 12. And he deserves to play... in his own way, with his own friends, at his favorite games... no matter how different these are from what society sees as "appropriate" for a child of his age."

 

 

Agreed! That is beautiful!

[quark]

I love this, from the end of the linked article:

 

"What is right for the highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child varies widely with each child. The best thing that parents, educators, and others working with that child can do is to actually work with the child. Make adjustments, offer opportunities, and try new placements, even if they are not commonly used for most children. The highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted child is not "most children." He is a unique individual, for whom modifications to the program must be made along the way, for both his gifted abilities and his learning disabilities.

 

 

And he deserves to be a child, to learn and play, to be taught and teach himself, to grow in physical, intellectual, social / emotional and spiritual ways, to adult-hood. Even if this means Kindergarten at 4, or high school 3 years early, or college courses at 12. And he deserves to play... in his own way, with his own friends, at his favorite games... no matter how different these are from what society sees as "appropriate" for a child of his age."

 

:iagree: I am so thankful for Hoagies.

[Donna]

I don't utilize any outside courses/co-op or anything either. My 9yodd is doing all her work at a middle school level (6th-8th grade). When she was younger, she seemed to do about 1.5 "grades" each school year but as she got older, I tend to be going deeper rather than faster so she covers more subjects and I slow down her math by using a number of different programs. I also tend to use more curriculum that doesn't have a specified grade level but more a range.

 

She moved up one class in church (to the 5th-6th grade class when she'd be in 4th if in school) which she chose to do herself because the class she was in "just played" while the other class "really learns about God." She seems to fit in well with the kids but she is used to being around older people a lot since she is in orchestra with kids several years older and hangs out with adults regularly to play Irish music plus she's the youngest in our family.

 

I often wonder how a grade acceleration works for a gifted student because they don't just learn a year ahead, they tend to learn exponentially faster.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't utilize any outside courses/co-op or anything either. My 9yodd is doing all her work at a middle school level (6th-8th grade). When she was younger, she seemed to do about 1.5 "grades" each school year but as she got older, I tend to be going deeper rather than faster so she covers more subjects and I slow down her math by using a number of different programs. I also tend to use more curriculum that doesn't have a specified grade level but more a range.

 

She moved up one class in church (to the 5th-6th grade class when she'd be in 4th if in school) which she chose to do herself because the class she was in "just played" while the other class "really learns about God." She seems to fit in well with the kids but she is used to being around older people a lot since she is in orchestra with kids several years older and hangs out with adults regularly to play Irish music plus she's the youngest in our family.

 

I often wonder how a grade acceleration works for a gifted student because they don't just learn a year ahead, they tend to learn exponentially faster.

 

I enjoyed hearing about your daughter! Thanks for sharing.

 

I would also like to hear more from those who have chosen to skip grades. We've skipped a book here or there, or compressed lessons to move very quickly through material (grammar and math, mainly) but I don't know how to do that across the curriculum past 5th or 6th grade. I could see how to do it in the early elementary years, but I probably lack the background, myself, to know how to do the same thing at higher levels.

 

Sometimes going faster isn't enough. Sometimes there is still unnecessary tedium, too much time spent on review, or simply a lack of stimulation even if there is learning to be gained at the new level. Mom is left wondering exactly how high we'll have to go before it feels like a fun challenge.

 

And this is where I have to concede that all curriculum is not created equal, not even concerning the 'good stuff' we know about on these boards. Sometimes we've had more success in using materials that are only a year or two ahead but that easily lend themselves to further exploration and creativity.

 

If the material doesn't scratch that itch, it really doesn't matter what grade level it is.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Tibbie Dunbar

[8filltheheart]

I enjoyed hearing about your daughter! Thanks for sharing.

 

I would also like to hear more from those who have chosen to skip grades. We've skipped a book here or there, or compressed lessons to move very quickly through material (grammar and math, mainly) but I don't know how to do that across the curriculum past 5th or 6th grade. I could see how to do it in the early elementary years, but I probably lack the background, myself, to know how to do the same thing at higher levels.

 

Sometimes going faster isn't enough. Sometimes there is still unnecessary tedium, too much time spent on review, or simply a lack of stimulation even if there is learning to be gained at the new level. Mom is left wondering exactly how high we'll have to go before it feels like a fun challenge.

 

And this is where I have to concede that all curriculum is not created equal, not even concerning the 'good stuff' we know about on these boards. Sometimes we've had more success in using materials that are only a year or two ahead but that easily lend themselves to further exploration and creativity.

 

If the material doesn't scratch that itch, it really doesn't matter what grade level it is.

 

Skipping grades and early graduation vs. staying "in" (though not "at") grade level both have pros and cons. It is really going to depend on familial philosophy, opportunities of circumstances, and individual child as to which is the better option. When I read the forum, I have recognized both discussions taking place.

 

Jenny in FL is a good example of grade skipping/early graduation. Her dd attend Mary Baldwin at age 12 and earned her bachelors by age 16. If you read her posts, you can see what her family saw as the weaknesses of her dd staying at home, the pros of early college attendance, as well of the weaknesses of a school like MB.

 

Kathy in Richmond is a good example of the not-grade skipping philosophy. Her 2 kids finished multiple yrs worth of college coursework at home (not dual enrollment) and both had/have full scholarships to top-tier schools. Her posts will give you their pro/con issues.

 

FWIW, our family has opted w/not skipping grades b/c we think the likelihood of acceptance w/merit aid at top schools will increase as ds develops his own unique interest-driven high school experience. We also think that it will be worth it to have his undergrad experience be at a top school w/more like-minded peers than at other schools where the peers are going to be less academically driven than ds.

Edited December 21, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[acurtis75]

I'm also enjoying hearing what others are doing. Since we're still early elementary here I'm just trying to figure all this out. I don't know if what we've done will be helpful for others or not since my daughter is still so young but I'll share since someone asked:)

 

We skipped level two of both FLL & WWE. We probably should have moved even farther ahead in FLL. We're in the middle of level 3 now and it's really very easy. We won't do 4 but I haven't decided where to go next. I was planning on using the new one that peace hill cancelled. I think we need more of a writing challenge too but I'll address it when we finish wwe3. So next year when dd would be starting 2nd grade we'll be doing somewhere between 4th & 6th grade grammar and maybe 3rd to 5th grade writing.

 

For math I was uncomfortable skipping too much so we went mastery approach. This has been discussed on other threads but we use mus and just accelerate. I wasted well over a year making dd complete every worksheet even though she never made any mistakes. In an effort to make her enjoy her math more we started watching the DVD, working a few problems and if she gets them right I let her test. We've gone through Beta, Gamma & all but 5 lessons in Delta over the last year or so. If we continue to move at that pace we will finish mus pre-algebra in another year and a half and then start AOPs. We are also using life of Fred for fun because dd likes it.

 

We're also doing Latin for children A now instead of waiting until 3rd grade age to start and added Song School Greek at dd's request last month.

 

Those are the areas we are accelerating now and I'm constantly re-evaluating what to do in other areas. Right now we just use Apologia elementary science which can be used for any grade. Once we get a little further along in math we'll start stepping up the level in Science.

[MSNative]

 

I often wonder how a grade acceleration works for a gifted student because they don't just learn a year ahead, they tend to learn exponentially faster.

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

Appreciating all the discussion and links. :) I've been searching the forum. This is a great starter thread for anyone else doing the same. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272264&highlight=college

Edited December 21, 2011 by MSNative

[8filltheheart]

:iagree:

 

 

 

Appreciating all the discussion and links. :) I've been searching the forum. This is a great starter thread for anyone else doing the same. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272264&highlight=college

 

Here are a few of Kathy's posts that share some of their experiences:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2700417&highlight=MIT#post2700417

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559496&highlight=schedule#post1559496

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2906604&highlight=early#post2906604

 

HTH

[Happy2BaMom]

This has been a great thread - I've learned a lot.

 

Ds, 9/3rd, is pg, and we are just beginning to grapple with what this really means for the long haul.

 

The output issue is the biggest one in our HS. I've found that I need to heavily modify programs that are more than 2-3 grade levels ahead. Cognitively my kids may be perfectly able to handle the material but their physical writing ability is no where near able to produce the output.

This is what is really true for ds as well. His mind is so far ahead of both his physical ability and also his grasp of writing conventions that the mismatch can be challenging. He can read and understand high-school and college-level books and textbooks, but he can't do the related writing exercises and he struggles with the manual dexterity needed for typing. So we're largely at a third-fourth grade-level in materials with a TON of supplementary (again, broad/enrichment-based versus simple acceleration) books, documentaries, nature studies, etc. I don't know what we'll do in a few years though, unless his writing ability vastly jumps ahead. He was just accepted into DYS, so I'm hoping the Family Consultant will also have some ideas. Edited December 21, 2011 by Happy2BaMom
correct grammatical error

[Barbara H]

We've dealt with grade skips and early college. My suggestion is for right now grades are really irrelevant. Strictly graded curriculum doesn't tend to work well for PG kids as they are more typically all over the place and further ahead in some subjects than others. For now, make sure your child has access to the appropriate level of work and that they get some challenge so they are able to learn the value of persistence and working through frustrations and ignore grade levels entirely. I would encourage you to be low key with other people as you discuss her academic situation and not make too many predictions (particularly in her earshot).

 

If you decide to grade skip that's something you can do much further into middle or high school. I would not make that decision until you see a number of factors in place: strong ACT/SAT scores, college level writing ability, ability to persist and complete courses such as AP courses, a plan in place to complete the required high school courses, etc.

[go_go_gadget]

I don't see the point in grade-skipping an exclusively homeschooled child until and unless there's an indication at around middle-school age that early graduation would be desirable. I started college at 15, and honestly don't think it was an ideal situation. I'd like to see my children homeschool until their junior years of high school and then move into a public IB program to graduate with all the experiences of high school without a lot of the nonsense. I have no idea if my kids are gifted or profoundly gifted and really don't care (since we're having no trouble with learning styles or other issues), though we likely will end up investigating the possibility in a few years for potential scholarships and feathers to go in their college application caps. California doesn't do the EXPLORE test and I'm not interested in IQ tests, so we'll be waiting for the ACT.

 

Both of mine, however, are thinking they might like to be professional ballet dancers as one of their careers (for ballet dancers, ballet has to be be only one of multiple careers, because the "career" is usually over by the dancer's early thirties, and both kids have other ambitions for afterward). Because of the early "retirement" involved in dancing, I wouldn't like them to skip college, but the late teens and early twenties are the prime dancing years, so to insist that they complete college first would be essentially to decide for them that they can't be dancers. If they do decide to pursue that course, I probably would have them start college several years early so they would have that squared away first. But they're both very young, and there's certainly no need for me to change anything now. They'll need to make that decision when they're middle school age, and if they continue to move at their current accelerated pace, both options will be open to them.

[LisaKinVA]

So much of everything we've experienced with our kids (usually on the bubble between HG and EG), is often limited by an individual child's personality. There are kids who are capable of much more... but stretching them continually (or doing school for the number of hours that might be required) is not high on their priority list. So, we've attempted to balance stretching, with relaxing, and making sure adequate progress is made.

 

My oldest is in 6th grade, taking a 9th grade science course. He's doing well with it. It's not the most difficult science class/publisher... but I'm not worried about that. He's developing critical study skills and organizational skills, and the content and structure... while easy for him to grasp... is much more than most kids his age would attempt. He enjoys Science, so this is an area I can really stretch him without causing issues.

 

Math... we just move forward. He's doing Foerster's, and doing really well with it. I'm going to have him play with AoPS and LoF beginning next spring. I'm giving him time here. He knows the goal with Algebra 1 is to really know it, not to rush through it. He also knows he won't move into Geometry until we're both comfortable with his foundation in Algebra 1. Right now, he seems motivated enough to finish Foerster's, AoPS and LoF in order to start Geometry next year. But, he's at an age that he needs to take charge of how fast he moves... and that it is not driven by me.

 

History -- when we're studying parts of history if he's not particularly "interested" in something, we don't go very deep. When he's interested, I will bring out all sorts of resources ranging from excellent picture books to adult-level reading and documentaries. Again, we are using areas he's already highly interested in to create the "stretch."

 

English... this is an area I really backed off from. He got "straight A's" in the VA, but IMO, his writing wasn't excellent. So, we've backed down on the level and increased the frequency & amount. His writing is improving... possibly because he can focus on the details and not get hung up on having so many writing requirements (in addition to comp, he was expected to do literary analysis, and essays in history and science... a place where the input at the VA didn't match the limits of his output.)

 

While this child is perfectly confident (and I would argue Logic Stage) in science and math, he isn't quite there in history and English. He's getting there, I have seen some mature thinking come from him that was not happening last year... but he definitely can be all over the map.

 

I have one child who seems to be more "globally" gifted... she excells rapidly in every subject. She is also highly motivated. And, another child who is held back a bit by fine motor development, but his motivation comes and goes.

 

Because the children are surrounded with books and lots of educational materials (their big gift this year is a really nice microscope, 200 prepared slides and 50 blanks... and dh and I already know that tearing them away from that will be like trying to get them to stop playing on the computer), I am just not worried about making every area something challenging (unless they are pushing for more, which changes the equation completely).

 

I'm content to have them not graduate early... if they are content to not graduate early. My now 12yo is starting to think that he would LIKE to graduate early...and honestly, he could. I guess time will tell.

[acurtis75]

. I would encourage you to be low key with other people as you discuss her academic situation and not make too many predictions (particularly in her earshot).

 

.

 

This is excellent advice and the need to do this is one of the reasons I appreciate this board and the abilility to discuss these issues and get feedback both from those who have btdt and others who are in the middle of navigating the process like I am. It is very difficult to talk to my local irl homeschooling friends who have similar aged children about curriculum, etc. I started before my 3 closest friends who now homeschool and they love us and dd but no one really wants to hear that your child is 3 levels ahead of theirs in math even though their child is 3 years older. I try very hard to downlplay dd's abilities in front of them which probably isn't the right thing to do but it's hard to know what will come across as bragging or make someone feel bad. Instead, I try to talk about things we have in common like behavior issues or scheduling. I also struggle with keeping dd humble and appreciative of her abilities instead of getting arrogant. This was really becoming a problem in Sunday school at our small church where she was singled out constantly for being so "smart" and knowing all the answers. We decided to leave the church for other reasons but an unintended benefit of switching to a larger congregation has been that due to the large number of students she's not singled out as much and doesn't get to answer every question which has been a good character building exercise for her.

[Happy2BaMom]

...this is one of the reasons I appreciate this board and the abilility to discuss these issues and get feedback both from those who have btdt and others who are in the middle of navigating the process like I am....

I agree. I have always tried to be very 'beneath-the-radar' with ds' abilities - this is easier now that we are hsing (ds noticed the gap more when he was in school). In many ways, it really doesn't impact anyone else nor is it their business (I mean that in a nice way). I also want ds to be able to be friends/be comfortable with anyone from any walk of life.

 

That being said, have a hg/pg child has been very, very challenging at times. If someone asked me whether I'd like to repeat first grade with ds or to put a metal spike through my head, I'd say that I'd have to think about it. (We pulled ds halfway through first-grade to hs.) It is NOT just a matter of wanting to know my son's IQ and/or abilities so that I or he can wear it like a badge (after all, the Unibomber seemed definitely gifted). It is a matter of trying to understand HIM and meet his true NEEDS and the self-destructiveness he can veer into when his intense drive for learning and intellectual reaching are suppressed or not met.

 

For that, I appreciate other parents who have also walked and/or walking that path. There are far too many people who will just roll their eyes and say "oh, yes, he's GIFTED, that's a problem, I'm sure". Actually, it can be - and has been at times - very, very painful.

 

So I'm grateful for whatever level of support other parents offer here.

[Tarreymere]

We plan to home educate each child to the age of eighteen, so it doesn't really matter what grade level the child is studying at. We educate the kids at the grade each child is able to work at. For example, DD age 8 is second grade according to her 'age-grade' with the school district, but she is doing her course work at a higher grade level. We still consider her to be a second grader. Most of our kids are gifted, and we are acutely aware that intellectual ability and emotional maturity do not develop at the same rate, so we are in no hurry to graduate a child based on academics.

[zaichiki]

I would also like to hear more from those who have chosen to skip grades.

 

Two years ago my ds, who was 5th grade by age, went to school for the first time and went into the 6th grade. He was put into the higher of the 2 math classes and his grades earned him honor roll each quarter. He didn't learn much of anything new that year. There was a lot of busy work. I think he would have been "fine" in the 7th or even 8th grade, academically. We chose to homeschool again after that year.

 

We don't use a lot of graded curriculum. Ds does a lot of learning on his own for history and science (following interests)... and it ends up looking like a unit study approach, actually... I like the WTM sequence for history, but the suggested resources don't always fit my kids. So, I try to keep the chronology in mind and choose resources that fit their needs.

 

For LA with ds, we have compacted, going over things quickly when he shows he already understands. It isn't unusual to do a number of years of curriculum material in one year. I like Vocabulary from Classical Roots b/c we can go as quickly as is necessary... I like Teaching the Classics for literary analysis b/c it is ungraded. It feels like a starting point -- and we just go with it, expanding on it and applying the skills to reading as we go. I'm still on the fence about choosing a writing curriculum for him... but I need to approach his writing in a more structured, challenging way... so I'm thinking...

 

ETA: I've found my ds learns faster in that he needs fewer repetitions to understand something and seems to remember it easily/longer with fewer repetitions. He also likes to go wider/deeper. When he finds a topic of interest, he'll spend every waking moment researching about it, thinking about it, and wanting to discuss it. A grade skip wasn't the right solution because it isn't that he has learned a year faster... He has a different way of learning, which leads to him acquiring the material faster and deeper, so it looks like he's "a year, or more, advanced," but in reality it's not just faster but a different animal completely.

 

We've always found that he likes his input (history, science, etc.) at a higher level than his age level (he seeks this material out and asks questions that the lower level material doesn't answer, for example). In some areas his output is also advanced. He makes connections and extrapolates, which leads to him "figuring out" things he hasn't been taught/told.

 

My dd is like this with her area of interest (music). She also scored gifted on an IQ test, but doesn't seem to have much of an interest in academic things. She does make connections and retains information and whatnot in science and history, but doesn't have the drive to do the research/learning on her own like her older brother does. Eh. Different strokes for different folks.

Edited December 22, 2011 by zaichiki

[acurtis75]

For LA with ds, we have compacted, going over things quickly when he shows he already understands. It isn't unusual to do a number of years of curriculum material in one year. I like Vocabulary from Classical Roots b/c we can go as quickly as is necessary... I like Teaching the Classics for literary analysis b/c it is ungraded. It feels like a starting point -- and we just go with it, expanding on it and applying the skills to reading as we go. I'm still on the fence about choosing a writing curriculum for him... but I need to approach his writing in a more structured, challenging way... so I'm thinking...

 

.

 

Thanks for sharing what you are doing. I'm considering where to go next with dd and this gives me some additional ideas to think about.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Skipping grades and early graduation vs. staying "in" (though not "at") grade level both have pros and cons. It is really going to depend on familial philosophy, opportunities of circumstances, and individual child as to which is the better option. When I read the forum, I have recognized both discussions taking place.

 

Jenny in FL is a good example of grade skipping/early graduation. Her dd attend Mary Baldwin at age 12 and earned her bachelors by age 16. If you read her posts, you can see what her family saw as the weaknesses of her dd staying at home, the pros of early college attendance, as well of the weaknesses of a school like MB.

 

Kathy in Richmond is a good example of the not-grade skipping philosophy. Her 2 kids finished multiple yrs worth of college coursework at home (not dual enrollment) and both had/have full scholarships to top-tier schools. Her posts will give you their pro/con issues.

 

FWIW, our family has opted w/not skipping grades b/c we think the likelihood of acceptance w/merit aid at top schools will increase as ds develops his own unique interest-driven high school experience. We also think that it will be worth it to have his undergrad experience be at a top school w/more like-minded peers than at other schools where the peers are going to be less academically driven than ds.

 

Here are a few of Kathy's posts that share some of their experiences:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2700417&highlight=MIT#post2700417

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559496&highlight=schedule#post1559496

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2906604&highlight=early#post2906604

 

HTH

 

We've dealt with grade skips and early college. My suggestion is for right now grades are really irrelevant. Strictly graded curriculum doesn't tend to work well for PG kids as they are more typically all over the place and further ahead in some subjects than others. For now, make sure your child has access to the appropriate level of work and that they get some challenge so they are able to learn the value of persistence and working through frustrations and ignore grade levels entirely. I would encourage you to be low key with other people as you discuss her academic situation and not make too many predictions (particularly in her earshot).

 

If you decide to grade skip that's something you can do much further into middle or high school. I would not make that decision until you see a number of factors in place: strong ACT/SAT scores, college level writing ability, ability to persist and complete courses such as AP courses, a plan in place to complete the required high school courses, etc.

 

Thanks so much for the thoughts and links, 8filltheheart! And for your experience-based wisdom as well, Barbara. More to think about.

 

What a great thread!

[DandelionMom]

Even though grade skipping works well, and is almost mandatory for some kids to feel satisfied, that isn't to say that it is for every child. I will agree that not every child wants, or will even learn better, with radical acceleration. My daughters are the type that go very, very fast in certain subjects...especially in English and science. I would feel uncomfortable holding them back if they wanted to move on. This actually happened a while ago when I realized that I kept repeating 9th grade with my oldest without knowing it. For some reason, the thought of moving her ahead alluded me until she came to me and said, "Mom, I have already learned this three times." After that, she started looking into early entrance into college. Not every child wants that, but some really do.

[8filltheheart]

Even though grade skipping works well, and is almost mandatory for some kids to feel satisfied, that isn't to say that it is for every child. I will agree that not every child wants, or will even learn better, with radical acceleration. My daughters are the type that go very, very fast in certain subjects...especially in English and science. I would feel uncomfortable holding them back if they wanted to move on. This actually happened a while ago when I realized that I kept repeating 9th grade with my oldest without knowing it. For some reason, the thought of moving her ahead alluded me until she came to me and said, "Mom, I have already learned this three times." After that, she started looking into early entrance into college. Not every child wants that, but some really do.

 

Would you share what the Penn Foster Mechanical Engineering is that you have listed in this part of your signature?

 

Goose (DD 15): English Comp. 121 at college, Penn Foster Mechanical Engineering, Vocabulary From Classical Roots D, Pre-Algebra at college, Algebra 1, Swordfighting, constructing droids and robots.

[Embassy]

I've made the decision to go deep and wide from the beginning. I don't plan to graduate my children until they are 18. I give them what they are ready to do whether that is on grade level or many grades ahead and I also add in quite a bit. We spend a bunch of time on what could be considered electives and many homeschoolers think we are crazy:tongue_smilie: I haven't had my kids tested, but I don't think I have PG kids on my hands. We have some issues that might be considered 2E as well.