Food Stamps at restaurants?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

It's the same ol' "It's MY money and I'm GIVING it to YOU because YOU can't afford to feed your family/self without ME'' mentality. It is very us vs. them and it is sad.

 

When we first married our household income was so low that we qualified for food stamps. Heaven forbid if we had actually used them. I shudder to think about how many people would have looked down on us or judged us for what we ate/how we used them. :confused:

[k2bdeutmeyer]

It's the same ol' "It's MY money and I'm GIVING it to YOU because YOU can't afford to feed your family/self without ME'' mentality. It is very us vs. them and it is sad.

 

When we first married our household income was so low that we qualified for food stamps. Heaven forbid if we had actually used them. I shudder to think about how many people would have looked down on us or judged us for what we ate/how we used them. :confused:

 

You summed up my thoughts exactly.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

And here is the thing: I can make all of the bad choices I want because I'm not using food stamps. I don't have to answer to anybody if I let my kids eat ice cream for dessert (which was tonight, btw) or we have apple pie for breakast (that was last week) because I get to have the luxury of making those decisions/choices w/o people feeling like they can judge/scrutinize. I have the luxury of people not giving a carp what I feed my kids since they (taxpayers) aren't "paying for it". :confused:

 

We are currently getting paid Family Separation Pay. Must I answer to how I spend that time? DH is getting Hazardous Duty Pay. Do we have to answer to exactly HOW MUCH danger he is in in a given day? Where does it end?:confused:

[twoforjoy]

We are currently getting paid Family Separation Pay. Must I answer to how I spend that time? DH is getting Hazardous Duty Pay. Do we have to answer to exactly HOW MUCH danger he is in in a given day? Where does it end?:confused:

 

Why should it just end with tax-funded programs? Why shouldn't my employer get to decide what I can or can't spend my money on? Or, why shouldn't my students get to vote on what I can or can't buy at the grocery store? After all, it's "their" hard-earned tuition money.

 

And a lot of that money comes in the form of loans, which are given by the government and funded by tax dollars. So since tax dollars are also going toward my paycheck, why shouldn't my grocery habits be subject to the same level of scrutiny as those of people on food stamps?

 

Families on food stamps pay taxes, and most have paid income tax in the past and will pay it again in the future. It's just as much "their" money funding their food stamps as it is any of ours.

[Word Nerd]

Scratching my head wondering how is this is not considered a political discussion. :leaving:

[Mergath]

Why can't they buy the mix, and make it themselves? Why should my tax dollars go to pay for a fancy cake for someone, when I can't afford the same thing for my child?

 

Well then, by that logic, we'd better punish the poor for all the things they have that you don't. I know wealthy people who are miserable, so we'd better have somebody go out to every family getting assistance and kick them three times a day so they're just as miserable. After all, if those with more money can't be happy, then by god the poor had better not aspire to it.

 

We've been off assistance for awhile now, and my dh works himself nearly to death so we have enough money. But if the people getting food stamps want to buy a fancy cake with their money, even if we can't afford one, I have no problem with that. I don't begrudge others their happiness the way so many around here seem to. Good grief.

[EJCMom]

The thing that always kills me about the decorated birthday cake outrage is, what if that is the ONLY thing that child is getting for her birthday, and the only reason she is getting it is because her parents can use food stamps to buy it? Have we really become so heartless as a society that we kvetch about a fancy birthday cake for a child? Really?

[Mergath]

The thing that always kills me about the decorated birthday cake outrage is, what if that is the ONLY thing that child is getting for her birthday, and the only reason she is getting it is because her parents can use food stamps to buy it? Have we really become so heartless as a society that we kvetch about a fancy birthday cake for a child? Really?

 

I think the people who think like this are so materialistic they just can't see the forest for the trees. It's the idea that, if their kids can't have something, no way should these "lower class" kids be allowed to have it. You see it around here all the time. Poor people on assistance shouldn't be allowed to have junk food. They shouldn't be allowed to buy organic food. They shouldn't be allowed to buy certain kinds of meat. They shouldn't be allowed to buy seafood.

 

Personally, I can't imagine becoming so materialistic that I could ever be jealous of a poor kid's birthday cake. But that's just me.

[jujsky]

Here's what *I* find interesting about threads like these: It's the *corporations* that want people on food stamps to be able to use their foodstamps there. This isn't a situation where people on assistance were storming the capitol steps, demanding to be able to use their food stamps to buy a $5 Big Box meal at Taco Bell. Yet, it is the people on assistance who usually end up denigrated in threads like these. They are just the, "lazy, entitled PA recipients who want to be able to live high on the hog on the taxpayers' dime." Why is nobody calling this what this really is? This is really more corporate welfare. I'm sure these fast food chains' bottom lines have been hit hard by this recession, and they are looking for a way, any way, to make up the revenue. But, as usual, it's the poor people in America who get the blame. Like I always say: Americans are very easily manipulated.

 

You nailed it.

[SKL]

Oh good grief. Nobody said you want people to starve. Nobody said you have low morals. You are getting very worked up about a lot of things nobody said.

 

I just really can't believe people are seriously arguing that someone on food stamps shouldn't be able to use those food stamps for a flippin' cake for their kid. This has nothing to do with cake anyway. It has to do with "us vs. them" attitudes, and frankly, I am sick of it.

 

No, you're right, you merely said that I begrudge people food.

 

And we're not talking aout a "flippin' cake," we're talking about being able to go and order a custom-made cake that costs many times the amount that a birthday cake needs to cost.

 

I think the regulations should not allow people to use food stamps to order a custom-made birthday cake or the like. If cake is considered a "food," then there are plenty of cakes available off the shelf.

 

Point is - food stamps are supposed to be a program to ensure basic nutrition for families. Not fun or equality or dignity or happiness. Mind you, I am all for dignity and happiness. However, I do not believe that liberal food stamp regulations are the path toward those goals.

 

Your point about us vs. them is interesting, but it fails for this reason. You can't determine how much a family should receive in food stamps or how they should be used, without using a standard family's basic needs for comparison.

 

Here's a counter-perspective. Suppose Corporate America has an extravagant party and takes a tax deduction (maximum tax benefit 17.5% of the cost) for the expense. Let the demonization begin! Even better, let the corporation use some of the money borrowed from the government (TARP anyone?) to put on a party, and even though it's going to be repaid with interest, it's a huge scandal. Oh my, look how the taxpayer's money is being used! (Us vs. them, anyone?) But somehow if it's an individual who has no intention of ever paying that money back to the taxpayer, extravagance should be allowed and nobody dare disagree with it.

[twoforjoy]

Just want to add, too, that food stamps themselves are pretty much corporate welfare. Many if not most people on food stamps are employed. A person working a full-time minimum-wage job qualifies for food stamps. A family with two children that had two parents both working full-time minimum-wage jobs would qualify for food stamps.

 

That basically means that, instead of requiring companies to pay a wage that would allow employees to do something as basic as purchasing food, we are allowing them to pay employees so little that they can't, and then we use our tax money to make up the difference. Instead of paying that money to their employees so their employees could actually afford food, we allow companies to rake in larger profits while we provide the extra money the worker needs.

[Mergath]

Point is - food stamps are supposed to be a program to ensure basic nutrition for families. Not fun or equality or dignity or happiness. Mind you, I am all for dignity and happiness. However, I do not believe that liberal food stamp regulations are the path toward those goals.

 

Wow. That's one of the most messed up things I've read here in awhile, and that's saying something.

 

Of course part of the reason for the existence for the food stamp program is to ensure things like equality and dignity. Can you imagine what poor mothers would be reduced to if there were no food stamps? Can you imagine the things they'd have to subject themselves to just to keep their families from starving?

 

Dignity IS a part of it. Obviously, you've never reached that level of desperation, or you'd understand that.

[twoforjoy]

Suppose Corporate America has an extravagant party and takes a tax deduction (maximum tax benefit 17.5% of the cost) for the expense. Let the demonization begin! Even better, let the corporation use some of the money borrowed from the government (TARP anyone?) to put on a party, and even though it's going to be repaid with interest, it's a huge scandal.

 

If Corporate America's idea of an "extravagant party" was buying a $38 cake to celebrate somebody's birthday, I can't imagine it would be an issue for the vast majority of people. It certainly wouldn't be for me.

 

Corporate America, if you want to use some of the bail-out money that my taxes helped provide you with to buy a $38 cake for an office birthday party, you have my permission.

 

In all seriousness, I don't think any parallel can be made between a person on food stamps buying a $38 birthday cake and the multimillion dollar bonuses, private jets, multi-day retreats at upscale hotels, and other truly extravagant expenses that the bailout money went toward.

Edited October 22, 2011 by twoforjoy

[SKL]

Wow. That's one of the most messed up things I've read here in awhile, and that's saying something.

 

Of course part of the reason for the existence for the food stamp program is to ensure things like equality and dignity. Can you imagine what poor mothers would be reduced to if there were no food stamps? Can you imagine the things they'd have to subject themselves to just to keep their families from starving?

 

Dignity IS a part of it. Obviously, you've never reached that level of desperation, or you'd understand that.

 

I guess we have different definitions of dignity.

 

As for equality, there is no such thing and there never could be.

 

BTW, if food stamps provide dignity in your opinion, that's wonderful. That still doesn't support an argument for allowing extravagant purchases on food stamps.

[Mergath]

I guess we have different definitions of dignity.

 

As for equality, there is no such thing and there never could be.

 

BTW, if food stamps provide dignity in your opinion, that's wonderful. That still doesn't support an argument for allowing extravagant purchases on food stamps.

 

And my definition of dignity definitely includes not having to perform sex acts on strange men to get enough money to keep your children alive.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the equality comment.

[SKL]

Look, I can agree to disagree and this will be my last post on this topic.

 

Just note that I'm saying I disagree with certain regulations in the food stamp program. Not its existence, not the people using it, etc. You are saying that means I don't think fellow Americans should be able to eat or be happy.

 

Let me turn the tables a bit.

 

You're the homeschooling community. Would it be fair for me to say: you disagree with the way certain things are done in public schools, and that means you don't think other people's kids deserve an education?

 

That's all for me.

[Mergath]

You're the homeschooling community. Would it be fair for me to say: you disagree with the way certain things are done in public schools, and that means you don't think other people's kids deserve an education?

 

 

What's not fair would be to say, "If I can't afford to buy Singapore math for my kid, those poor kids' parents shouldn't be allowed to use education credits to buy it, either."

[Elizabeth in MN]

I'm not going to read the whole thread because my blood pressure is at a great level right now : D

 

I will say that poverty is poverty. I spent the better part of two years "cooking" without a stove. I had a hot plate, a microwave, and a toaster oven. Grilled cheese and soup can be done, but it's not exactly the same. Spaghetti with home made sauce? No can do. Stir Fry? Hot plate can't get hot enough. Steamed veggies on pasta? Nope. Hot plates can barely bring something to a boil. Two birthday parties with store-bought cake for my daughter? Yes!

 

First thing I made with the stove was cookies from scratch.

[elegantlion]

I guess we have different definitions of dignity.

 

As for equality, there is no such thing and there never could be.

 

BTW, if food stamps provide dignity in your opinion, that's wonderful. That still doesn't support an argument for allowing extravagant purchases on food stamps.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I pray you are never in a position where you are not able to work those seven days a week. Because I can tell you it sucks to go from being a well supported household to being on food stamps. My dh's health plummeted this summer. He went from being able to work physically hard 6-7 days a week to not being able to leave the couch. This on top of 12 months of underemployed. A hard blow for someone who has worked hard as a self-employed person for over 30 years.

 

We've never been rich, but we've sought assistance last year as a temporary means to get back on our feet. We sought it again this summer. We've paid our taxes, we've been the household where someone worked hard to provide for our family and we were frugal with our money. There is food in my house today because of food stamps.

 

This pride you carry around that says you should be able to come into my house and dictate extravagance to me must be a heavy burden. I pray it never takes you for a fall.

[Renee in NC]

...

Edited October 23, 2011 by Renee in FL

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

No, you're right, you merely said that I begrudge people food.

 

And we're not talking aout a "flippin' cake," we're talking about being able to go and order a custom-made cake that costs many times the amount that a birthday cake needs to cost.

 

I think the regulations should not allow people to use food stamps to order a custom-made birthday cake or the like. If cake is considered a "food," then there are plenty of cakes available off the shelf.

 

Point is - food stamps are supposed to be a program to ensure basic nutrition for families. Not fun or equality or dignity or happiness. Mind you, I am all for dignity and happiness. However, I do not believe that liberal food stamp regulations are the path toward those goals.

 

Your point about us vs. them is interesting, but it fails for this reason. You can't determine how much a family should receive in food stamps or how they should be used, without using a standard family's basic needs for comparison.

 

Here's a counter-perspective. Suppose Corporate America has an extravagant party and takes a tax deduction (maximum tax benefit 17.5% of the cost) for the expense. Let the demonization begin! Even better, let the corporation use some of the money borrowed from the government (TARP anyone?) to put on a party, and even though it's going to be repaid with interest, it's a huge scandal. Oh my, look how the taxpayer's money is being used! (Us vs. them, anyone?) But somehow if it's an individual who has no intention of ever paying that money back to the taxpayer, extravagance should be allowed and nobody dare disagree with it.

I don't think a $38 dollar cake even begins to compare to lavish parties or trips that costs thousands and thousands of dollars.

[Negin]

For the record, I'm in full support of the food stamp program, and I'd be happy to pay higher taxes if it meant more families would be covered. And I don't give a d*mn how people budget their food stamp money - if they want to buy a cake or a jar of caviar or only rice and beans, it's none of my business. I understand, however, that my opinions on this subject aren't universal. Which is why food stamp threads get so extremely long.

:iagree:

[EJCMom]

No, you're right, you merely said that I begrudge people food.

 

And we're not talking aout a "flippin' cake," we're talking about being able to go and order a custom-made cake that costs many times the amount that a birthday cake needs to cost.

 

I think the regulations should not allow people to use food stamps to order a custom-made birthday cake or the like. If cake is considered a "food," then there are plenty of cakes available off the shelf.

 

Point is - food stamps are supposed to be a program to ensure basic nutrition for families. Not fun or equality or dignity or happiness. Mind you, I am all for dignity and happiness. However, I do not believe that liberal food stamp regulations are the path toward those goals.

 

Your point about us vs. them is interesting, but it fails for this reason. You can't determine how much a family should receive in food stamps or how they should be used, without using a standard family's basic needs for comparison.

 

Here's a counter-perspective. Suppose Corporate America has an extravagant party and takes a tax deduction (maximum tax benefit 17.5% of the cost) for the expense. Let the demonization begin! Even better, let the corporation use some of the money borrowed from the government (TARP anyone?) to put on a party, and even though it's going to be repaid with interest, it's a huge scandal. Oh my, look how the taxpayer's money is being used! (Us vs. them, anyone?) But somehow if it's an individual who has no intention of ever paying that money back to the taxpayer, extravagance should be allowed and nobody dare disagree with it.

 

Help me out here...The foodstamp allotment is the same no matter what the person buys with it. So, what difference does it make to any taxpayer if the person buys a $38 birthday cake or $38 worth of dried pinto beans? It's still costing us the same $38.

[sewingmama]

It's the same ol' "It's MY money and I'm GIVING it to YOU because YOU can't afford to feed your family/self without ME'' mentality. It is very us vs. them and it is sad.

 

You know - just because a family is on food stamps now doesn't mean they have always been. A large percentage of them probably paid taxes at sometime during their life - so don't they deserve a little help when their luck is down :confused:

 

We don't have food stamps in Australia. The govt. gives those on welfare a big old chunk of money every fortnight to do with as they see fit. There isn't a single restriction on it and they get to use real money like everyone else so as not to stigmatise them. It's hard enough being unemployed without feeling like everytime you go shopping people are looking in your basket and judging your food choices and making you feel even more degraded.

 

I live in a low socio-economic neighborhood. Probably about 70% of the population here is on welfare. If I walk into any McD's or Pizza place around here at least half of the customers are paying with money from govt. welfare. It just never entered my head to glare at these people and silently fume that they are wasting my tax dollars.

 

I don't know - It's never bothered me how my tax dollars are spent once they leave my paypacket. If people want to spend their welfare money unwisely they are only hurting themselves.

 

I just can't think of anything more degrading then having someone hand me food stamps and then tell me that since I am "poor" and therefore "insert common stereotype of person living on food stamps here" then I am only allowed to buy certain foods because obviously I don't deserve the dignity of being treated as though I might actually have a brain and can figure out how to make the money best serve my family myself.

 

I really destest the thought that seems to prevade society about poverty "If you are poor it's because you have no budgeting skills and are obviously not good with money so the government and taxpayers have the right to step in and micro-manage you and show you how to improve yourself" :glare:

 

Some of the best budgeters I know are very poor people. I often look at people who earn half what my DH does and wonder how they manage so well on what little they get because I doubt I could do it so well.

 

In my opinion - if people can figure out how to fit a $38 cake into their tiny food stamp budget then they totally deserve to have it :001_smile:

[Audrey]

 

4) I have fed more families, voluntarily, than most of the people on this board. I've lived a very frugal life while doing so. That does not mean I am not entitled to an opinion about food stamp abuse.

 

This is quite possibly the most arrogant, presumptuous statement ever uttered on this board.

 

In the short time you've been here, have you been able to assess what "most" of this board does and does not do to give succor to others? I highly doubt that.

 

Did you know that there are missionaries on this board who dedicate their lives to making sure the people in their regions are receiving food? Did you know that there are numerous farmers on this board who regularly participate in crop share donations to feed people they'll likely never meet in their lifetime simply because they believe that food is that important and should be shared, not capitalized? Did you know that there are compassionate folks of every stripe on this board who spend hours and hours preparing food for those who have none, preparing boxes of food for families who can't afford to buy groceries, and donating their own purchases for the same?

 

So.. for you to come here and pretentiously declare that you've "given more than most on here" is just about as sweet as a sack of sulphur.

 

Bless your perfect little heart.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I still feel strongly about this topic, but I'm deleting my message and moving on. The blessings in my home call me.

Edited October 24, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy
Not in the mood for the persecution...

[LizzyBee]

Why are you working? I mean that in all seriousness. If you are losing money by working like you claim to be--and I don't really understand that, since the highest marginal tax rate is 35% or so--why work? Wouldn't your family actually be financially better off if you didn't work? I'm not aware of any situation where that would be possible to actually owe more in taxes in a given year (I'm not talking about things like owing back taxes) than you bring in in income, but should such a thing be possible, it sounds like continuing on that path is not very wise.

 

If you are actually busting your butt working seven days a week so you can lose money, wouldn't it make more financial sense to just not work?

 

I'm obviously not SKL, but I have had clients who had -0- taxable income and still owed tax, thanks to the alternative minimum tax. In addition, due to differences between financial accounting and tax law, it is entirely possible to have negative net income and/or negative cash flow and positive tax liability.

 

When you own a business, you can't just walk away like you can when you work for someone else. A business owner is usually liable for some or all of the company's debt whether or not the company is open for business. And many business owners are trying to hang on until the economy improves, hoping that the business will turn around and become profitable again.

[Negin]

This is quite possibly the most arrogant, presumptuous statement ever uttered on this board.

 

:iagree:

 

I have not read every single post here, but I do read that specific post yesterday and since then I've been thinking about it and it really and truly has rubbed me the wrong way. :glare:

[SKL]

:iagree:

 

I have not read every single post here, but I do read that specific post yesterday and since then I've been thinking about it and it really and truly has rubbed me the wrong way. :glare:

 

Coming back out of self-imposed silence on this thread to say:

 

I did apologize previously. I should not have said that. Please don't let it bother you any more, as there is nothing more I can do about it.

 

That is all.

[ravinlunachick]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

[LittleIzumi]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[tex-mex]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

:iagree:

 

If it helps, I think it is none of our business what people buy with food stamps. And your story perfectly fits the example many here have tried to relay -- I am saddened to see such judgmental/legalistic points of view on this topic. As a taxpayer, I'm glad to see our tax dollars working for your family in a tough $$ situation. :grouphug:

[Unscripted]

I haven't read through all the pages- but I do want to share my opinion on negativity about FS. I am all for FS being applied to pretty much anything in a grocery store- I don't care if it's a custom made cake or rotisserie chicken or any other prepared food. Don't care. Their food budget is whatever it is- if the FS recipient runs out of stamps because of inappropriate purchases (outside of budget for example) it's not like they get more FS's next month from what I understand. Equally, I have X number of dollars for our grocery budget. If I go over- it has to come from somewhere else. I just don't see the difference.

 

That said... I do have a big chip on my shoulder when I see the mom wearing juicy couture, pulling her Louis Vuitton wallet out of her matching purse for her FS card- and then watching her get into her BMW suv. That irks the hell out of me. (is it obvious that I just saw these specific details last week at publix?). My first job was cashiering- and I would say 60% FS customers looked totally average, another 20% looked very down on their luck, but another strong 20% appeared at the store wearing a shirt that I am sure may be worth twice their food budget. I really wish more folks would concentrate on fraud, than the actual purchase.

(disclaimer: yes I do realize that some of whom I am complaining about could be in the middle of a divorce, etc- and just wearing or driving what they had in the marriage... But surely that has to be the exception in the group- not the norm)

Edited October 23, 2011 by Unscripted

[Impish]

This is quite possibly the most arrogant, presumptuous statement ever uttered on this board.

 

In the short time you've been here, have you been able to assess what "most" of this board does and does not do to give succor to others? I highly doubt that.

 

Did you know that there are missionaries on this board who dedicate their lives to making sure the people in their regions are receiving food? Did you know that there are numerous farmers on this board who regularly participate in crop share donations to feed people they'll likely never meet in their lifetime simply because they believe that food is that important and should be shared, not capitalized? Did you know that there are compassionate folks of every stripe on this board who spend hours and hours preparing food for those who have none, preparing boxes of food for families who can't afford to buy groceries, and donating their own purchases for the same?

 

So.. for you to come here and pretentiously declare that you've "given more than most on here" is just about as sweet as a sack of sulphur.

 

Bless your perfect little heart.

:001_wub:you!

[tex-mex]

 

That said... I do have a big chip on my shoulder when I see the mom wearing juicy couture, pulling her Louis Vuitton wallet out of her matching purse for her FS card- and then watching her get into her BMW suv. That irks the hell out of me. (is it obvious that I just saw these specific details last week at publix?).

Duly noted.

 

However, could it not be valid that the same person in question may be:

 

- wearing illegal/black market/counterfeit clothing & purse?

- leasing the BMW and maybe not paying the lease so the car might be repossessed at any time?

- she is vain and tries to make folks think she has money but is really up to her eyeballs in debt and close to bankruptcy?

[ravinlunachick]

Duly noted.

 

However, could it not be valid that the same person in question may be:

 

- wearing illegal/black market/counterfeit clothing & purse?

- leasing the BMW and maybe not paying the lease so the car might be repossessed at any time?

- she is vain and tries to make folks think she has money but is really up to her eyeballs in debt and close to bankruptcy?

 

Or perhaps she purchased the SUV and clothing before falling on hard times. We used to have a nice car, too. Not anymore, mind you, but in the beginning of our long fall, we did.

[Jen in PA]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

 

Been there. Done that. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[tex-mex]

Or perhaps she purchased the SUV and clothing before falling on hard times. We used to have a nice car, too. Not anymore, mind you, but in the beginning of our long fall, we did.

I hear ya.

 

I knew of some friends who had earnings in the six figures and then her husband lost his job. They lost their home to foreclosure. Savings dried up. They had their Jaguar repossessed (his car) and I recall one day telling her to go to the Salvation Army to apply for assistance with the electricity bill. It would be cut off by mid-month and she had 3 kids (one being a newborn, the oldest deaf and attending a county school for the deaf).

 

She did as I suggested. But she was so humiliated to apply for help. And the lady or social worker was a trip too. Soon after she applied, her car (SUV Suburban) was repossessed weeks later with her purse, CDs, baby seat, kids backpacks, etc. It happens. That was back in 2004.

[Unscripted]

Or perhaps she purchased the SUV and clothing before falling on hard times. We used to have a nice car, too. Not anymore, mind you, but in the beginning of our long fall, we did.

 

The last paragraph in my post is dedicated to that being a very possible situation. It sounds as though you believe there is no fraud- and 100% of the recipients are totally in need? It's just not the case... And honestly- it pissed me off not because of the fraud near as much as the fact that there could be more $$$ out there for the poor if it weren't for all fraud. I don't see it as stealing money from *me* the taxpayer- it's stealing from the needy.

[shinyhappypeople]

Or perhaps she purchased the SUV and clothing before falling on hard times. We used to have a nice car, too. Not anymore, mind you, but in the beginning of our long fall, we did.

 

:iagree:

 

You just never know.

[Unscripted]

:iagree:

 

You just never know.

 

Again- please read my post- the whole thing... Like the last paragraph. Again- I ask- do you all think that is the norm? Not the exception? To me, it seems one would be ebaying all that shtuff to help the family's bottom line. Just my .02.

[ravinlunachick]

The last paragraph in my post is dedicated to that being a very possible situation. It sounds as though you believe there is no fraud- and 100% of the recipients are totally in need? It's just not the case... And honestly- it pissed me off not because of the fraud near as much as the fact that there could be more $$$ out there for the poor if it weren't for all fraud. I don't see it as stealing money from *me* the taxpayer- it's stealing from the needy.

 

That's quite a leap you made there. Of course I acknowledge that fraud exists. I don't believe I ever indicated otherwise.

 

I simply prefer to offer others the benefit of the doubt, rather than assuming (you know what they say about that). At least, that's my goal. I often fall short of that, I admit. As far as worrying about taking money from the needy, I prefer to direct that righteous anger (of which I have plenty) towards the corrupt politics of our current system, which favor corporate interests over actual people nearly every time. I bet we can think of a lot of ways to generate millions more dollars for the needy. ;)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

And it seems to be part of the human condition to hate the poor even more than the rich. As such, it seems to be more popular and more comfortable to hate/despise/demonize those in poverty than those who have figured out the myraid loopholes to enable them to partake of corporate welfare and pay less taxes. :glare:

 

Does fraud exist? Of course.

 

Is it bad? Of course.

 

Am I MUCH more concerned about the milions in corporate welfare that are mismanaged? OF COURSE!

[Unscripted]

That's quite a leap you made there. Of course I acknowledge that fraud exists. I don't believe I ever indicated otherwise.

 

I simply prefer to offer others the benefit of the doubt, rather than assuming (you know what they say about that). At least, that's my goal. I often fall short of that, I admit. As far as worrying about taking money from the needy, I prefer to direct that righteous anger (of which I have plenty) towards the corrupt politics of our current system, which favor corporate interests over actual people nearly every time. I bet we can think of a lot of ways to generate millions more dollars for the needy. ;)

 

 

Not a leap at all when you skipped the entire fraud part and the exception part- and just want to address me as if they weren't said. As to the rest of your post- I will have to abstain due to it's political nature. ;)

[ravinlunachick]

Unscripted, I went back and reread your post.

 

I'm not sure what you think those 20% of your former customers were doing on food stamps. Perhaps it was a temporary thing, as it is for many (most?) people. Do you believe that Jane Doe should literally sell the shirt off her back before applying for assistance to feed her kids? What is she supposed to do? Hope that someone will buy her wallet so that she can have bread to make sandwiches for the next week? That's ridiculous.

 

Also consider the fact that if she is out of work or looking for a job, she may need more than jeans and a sweatshirt to get hired. Perhaps that's her interview suit that you saw her wearing at the store.

 

There's just so many possibilities, and as I said earlier, it really is the better path to catch ourselves in that moment of judgement and let it go. We can never know the whole story for every stranger we see.

[elegantlion]

Again- please read my post- the whole thing... Like the last paragraph. Again- I ask- do you all think that is the norm? Not the exception? To me, it seems one would be ebaying all that shtuff to help the family's bottom line. Just my .02.

 

A likely scenario is that they are upside down on the car. If you don't have the money to pay off the balance when you sell it, you're stuck. They may be staying just ahead repossession.

 

I can even see reasons why you might keep the car if it were paid for. I'd probably sell it if that were the case.

[Impish]

I think part of the benefit of the doubt is also recognizing wasted energy.

 

Its far more pleasant to the mind and body to give someone grace, to consider alternatives, than to get angry and worked up over something that you have absolutely 0 control over, and stew and gnash your teeth.

 

Think of the wasted energy, the robbing of positive emotions to yourself and those around you by deciding something is fraud rather than extending grace.

 

There's a difference btwn KNOWING something is fraud (report it, do something about it constructive) and a 30 second snap shot of someone's life viewed through your own personal filter.

 

Give you an example:

 

To look at me, you'd never realize I'm disabled. You just wouldn't. But, I've been dealing with a severe chronic pain disability that's cost me about 80% (or more) use of my dominant hand and arm. I've been dealing with Workers Comp for over 3 yrs now.

 

There are those that would judge me, decide I'm faking, etc. Just b/c a) its not a visible disability and b) I do my very, very best to NOT allow ppl to see the pain I'm in. Unless its really bad, you wouldn't know...until you watched me try to do something that normally takes two hands.

[Unscripted]

There's just so many possibilities, and as I said earlier, it really is the better path to catch ourselves in that moment of judgement and let it go. We can never know the whole story for every stranger we see.

 

Totally agreed on that. However you can't discount seeing the "regulars" (that were in clothing and cars that just didn't seem to go along with being in need) that I mentioned for the 3 years I worked there through high school and not think *something*. It does happen and often. And yeah- the attire does bug me... I have BTDT to sell my nice stuff from my former life to make it. Did I make pennies versus what I paid back when for them? Yes, but I needed those pennies.

[Nakia]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

 

 

Thank you so much being brave and sharing your heart. I applaud you and your husband for your hard work and honesty. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Blessings

Nakia

[EJCMom]

I'll just chime in to say that we went through a really horrible time, when dh lost his job and was then seriously underemployed for 2 years. He was working 50 hours a week, hardly ever seeing his kids, and yet we qualified for food stamps. We couldn't have kept our home if we hadn't had that help. We lived so frugally that I had unit priced everything, even single eggs and tablespoons of butter, so that I could be sure the meals I had planned wouldn't cause us to run out of FS money by the end of the month.

 

But once, for dh's birthday, when I couldn't afford to buy him a gift, I used some of our food stamps to buy him a t-bone steak. I scraped together enough change to buy a single pint of Guinness, and that was his birthday surprise. Attitudes like SKL's are the reason why I felt so ashamed in the grocery line. I just *knew* people were judging me harshly. Someone probably went home and ranted to their spouse about that "welfare queen with 3 kids buying steak and beer with food stamps." I felt lower than dirt, and all I wanted to do was a tiny little nice thing for my very hardworking (and taxpaying!) dh. Even now, I'm tearing up writing about it.

 

I suppose my point is to remind people that we never really know the whole story behind the fleeting glimpses we see, and it's much better all around to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMnsHO.

 

:grouphug:

 

You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of -- not then, and not now.