What constitutes assault from a teen-ager . . .

[Jean in Newcastle]

to a parent? A shove? A slap? A hit? Does force matter? Does the gender of the teen matter? Does the gender of the parent matter? Does the age of the teen matter? Should assault be automatically reported to police? I'm looking for simple information and objective opinion. There's no back story or front story for that matter to tell you.

[EJCMom]

I don't know the answer from a legal standpoint. Personally, I think the situation in general would have to be taken into account...not only the age, gender, and size of the teen, but also the amount of force and whether or not this was the first time.

[Impish]

Assault is not dependant on gender, history, or age.

 

Age comes into play in terms of if the act is able to be legally prosecuted.

 

As to if its reported...like any other form of domestic violence, that's completely up to the parties involved, unless another witness makes the call.

 

As to determining if it IS assault, my question is this: If a stranger did (whatever it was) would it be considered assault then? If so, then its no different simply b/c a family member did it.

[elegantlion]

My only opinion is on whether the police should be involved. It depends. Is there a history of violence to him/herself or others? Are there extenuating circumstances, outside stressors, hormonal issues, substance abuse issues? Is the parent afraid of the teen? Is the teen otherwise "manageable"?

 

IMO I believe there would have to be pattern of behavior before I called the police on my own teen. I would attempt to resolve the issue through other avenues including counseling, medical tx, intervention, etc before creating a criminal record.

[LidiyaDawn]

For me to call the police *on my own child* .. things would have to be extremely serious.

[LibraryLover]

I know of a local family (not friends) where the police were called (by a scared sibling). The teen was placed in temporary foster care and CPS mandated family counseling. The teen struck first (supposedly in defense), but it was the father who first grabbed grabbed the teen and put him in a chokehold (supposedly in defense). The teen was stronger, but a bit shorter & lighter than the father.

Edited October 10, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've spent tonight doing research online. This was the best site I found. It is Canadian but the basic information applies to anyone. http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/pdfs/Abuse_E.pdf

[texasmama]

to a parent? A shove? A slap? A hit? Does force matter? Does the gender of the teen matter? Does the gender of the parent matter? Does the age of the teen matter? Should assault be automatically reported to police? I'm looking for simple information and objective opinion. There's no back story or front story for that matter to tell you.

 

IMO, any "hands on" contact in anger from a teen of any age and either gender to a parent of either gender constitutes a crossing of boundaries. What is considered legal assault, I cannot say. I don't think that any physical contact should automatically be reported to police, but any time a parent is afraid of a child due to a physical threat, I think it is appropriate to call the police. If physical contact is repeated or enough to knock someone down or leave a mark or bruise, I think it should be reported. If one of my kids acted this way, I would know that child and my relationship with him/her was in serious trouble and would take us to counseling post haste.

[ChristusG]

I would think that any unwanted physical contact, done in anger, towards a parent is assault.

 

As for the action taken, there's lots of things to take into account. Was there any injury? Was the teen antagonized (sometimes fathers can antagonize teen sons to anger....it's no excuse though)? Did the teen learn their lesson? Were they remorseful? Has it occurred before? Do you think it will happen again? Does the teen have a history of anger issues? All of these are things to take into account.

[Cammie]

Assault is usually defined as causing the victim to fear violence. The actual physical contact would be battery.

 

Some jurisdictions have incorporated the definition of civil assault into the definition of the crime making it a criminal assault to intentionally cause another person to apprehend a harmful or offensive contact.

 

You often see the two charged together "assault and battery" because there is one charge for the assault (the fear ahead of the touching) and one charge for the touching/contact.

 

If the victim is a "protected person" (child, elderly person) then many states have additonal penalties.

 

Good luck.

[Denisemomof4]

My only opinion is on whether the police should be involved. It depends. Is there a history of violence to him/herself or others? Are there extenuating circumstances, outside stressors, hormonal issues, substance abuse issues? Is the parent afraid of the teen? Is the teen otherwise "manageable"?

 

IMO I believe there would have to be pattern of behavior before I called the police on my own teen. I would attempt to resolve the issue through other avenues including counseling, medical tx, intervention, etc before creating a criminal record.

 

For me to call the police *on my own child* .. things would have to be extremely serious.

 

as for the two quoted above, I would have to respectfully disagree. As a mom of a troubled teen, and as a friend of a mom of a troubled teen, sometimes getting police involvement sooner is the best choice. Then things hopefully wouldn't have escalated.

 

For my friend, the police told her she should have called sooner. She and I both didn't realize it was a police situation until after we talked to police, and by that time it was too late. You can't bring charges against someone for something that happened months ago. Well I suppose you COULD, but it wouldn't really be worth the fight. So this kid got to manipulate, control, and abuse his mother in ways which were LEGAL until her turned 18. Perhaps if she had pressed charges on him sooner she would have gotten more help.

[GinaPagnato]

Perhaps, but not necessarily. This same thing happened with my best friend and her dd. Unfortunately, once you call the police there's no getting out of it and the ball starts rolling. Fast.

 

I agree that I would try ANY avenue first before involving the police. They're not bad guys, of course, but they must respond to an assault call, and you often won't be happy with the results, from what I've seen.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

For me to call the police *on my own child* .. things would have to be extremely serious.

 

:iagree: It would definitely have to be a pattern of more than one instance IMHO unless serious injury occurred. I would definitely try other serious discipline measures to control that kind of behavior too.

[jillian]

Assault is not dependant on gender, history, or age.

 

Age comes into play in terms of if the act is able to be legally prosecuted.

 

As to if its reported...like any other form of domestic violence, that's completely up to the parties involved, unless another witness makes the call.

 

As to determining if it IS assault, my question is this: If a stranger did (whatever it was) would it be considered assault then? If so, then its no different simply b/c a family member did it.

Yep.

[LibraryLover]

In the case I cited, the police called CPS, but no arrests were made. The teen was taken out of the home that night, however.

[LaxMom]

I think there are much, much different standards of physical contact between strangers and family members.

 

Beyond that, my response to either would have to do with context unless it was so egregious as to leave no other option. I have many more choices in addressing the behavior of a family member. Of course, if someone took a swing at me with a baseball bat, my field of options would narrow to just the one in either case.

 

I will say, though, I am 5 feet tall and am not at all easy to physically intimidate. In the past when people have tried that, I would just get closer to them. Despite the fact that they could have, literally, carried me off, I have a combination of mean and fearless that most would-be intimidators find off-putting. :D

Edited October 10, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse

[Jean in Newcastle]

To partially answer my own question (after doing a lot of research last night) - the term is parent abuse and it is just as serious as child and elder abuse. It is often not reported or sought help for because the parents feel embarrassed, helpless and like they should protect their abuser - the teen - instead of seeking help for the teen and themselves. I'm still a bit unclear on where the line is between a defiant teen and abuse, though.

[celticmom]

I'm still a bit unclear on where the line is between a defiant teen and abuse, though.

 

I would imagine that that is where it varies depending on the teen and the situation and even the nature of the local authorities(extremely punative or more inerested in help and rehabilitation).

[twoforjoy]

For me to call the police *on my own child* .. things would have to be extremely serious.

 

:iagree:

[twoforjoy]

To partially answer my own question (after doing a lot of research last night) - the term is parent abuse and it is just as serious as child and elder abuse. It is often not reported or sought help for because the parents feel embarrassed, helpless and like they should protect their abuser - the teen - instead of seeking help for the teen and themselves. I'm still a bit unclear on where the line is between a defiant teen and abuse, though.

 

I think that's a tricky line, though. Parents do have a duty to protect their children. And, calling the police and getting a child entangled in the juvenile or adult justice system is often not going to do anything to help/rehabilitate them.

 

I'd try almost anything, including long-term residential treatment, before getting the police involved.

[cindergretta]

Is it battery if a teen slaps a parent across the face? Is it battery if a parent slaps a teen across the face? Is it assault if a teen threatens to slap a parent? Is is assault if a parent threatens to slap a teen?

 

Are parents allowed to use physical punishment with teens? Are teens allowed to defend themselves, physically if necessary from parents who are physically punishing them?

 

I think this issue would be so much easier if corporal punishment and the like weren't legal and acceptable. For as it stands, it is a double standart - adults can use means against teens that teens can't use against adults.

 

Therefore, comparing the behaviour to that of a stranger is a straw man. If I strike a random adult, it is battery. If I strike my teen, it is punishment for back talking.

 

Basically, we have "rights" as parents in how we can treat our offspring that do not extend to any other person on earth - spouse, neighbor, friend, or child of same.

 

(A friend slapped her 15 year old daughter and her daughter slapped her back. Call the police? On which one? Ftr, no police or CPS involvement.)

[gardenmom5]

If I strike my teen, it is punishment for back talking.

 

.)

 

Not if it gets reported to the police - its no longer considered "punishment", but battery. (might vary with jurisdiction)

 

as for your friend and her daughter - who struck whom first is very much considered. but since her dd was a minor, she'd probably be the one arrested.

[cindergretta]

Not if it gets reported to the police - its no longer considered "punishment", but battery. (might vary with jurisdiction)

 

as for your friend and her daughter - who struck whom first is very much considered. but since her dd was a minor, she'd probably be the one arrested.

 

I understand that. I am simply trying to point out that we have a dichotomy here where the use of force is Ok when perpetrated by this person against that person but NOT Ok when done in the reverse. I think it is a double standard.

 

Going back 100 years, we had the same double standard within marriage. My dh could be arrested for punching a man in a bar but if he punched me, it was a private affair, not illegal.

 

Nowadays, we can spank a 2 year old, even with an implement, and that is perfectly legal unless XYZ happens. But if a 16 year old slaps a parent, we want to call the police. And we talk about the size and gender but no one cares if 175 lb male dad spanks 30 lb female 2 year old. But let 150 lb male teen slap 110 lb female mom and now it is an issue of legal merit. I think that is disgraceful. The underlying message seems to be "Allow parents to hit their children until the children are bigger than the parents. Then if the now bigger child hits the parents, involve the police." Nice. :glare:

[twoforjoy]

Not if it gets reported to the police - its no longer considered "punishment", but battery. (might vary with jurisdiction)

 

The point, though, is that the law would also consider it battery if the daughter did the same to the mother.

 

I get the sense that many would support the daughter being charged with battery for slapping her mom, but would consider the mom slapping the daughter to be a justified and appropriate use of parental authority.

 

Personally, I don't think either one--if we're talking about slapping and not causing damage--would warrant criminal charges.

[twoforjoy]

The underlying message seems to be "Allow parents to hit their children until the children are bigger than the parents. Then if the now bigger child hits the parents, involve the police." Nice. :glare:

 

Very well said.

[Leav97]

Nowadays, we can spank a 2 year old, even with an implement, and that is perfectly legal unless XYZ happens. But if a 16 year old slaps a parent, we want to call the police. And we talk about the size and gender but no one cares if 175 lb male dad spanks 30 lb female 2 year old. But let 150 lb male teen slap 110 lb female mom and now it is an issue of legal merit. I think that is disgraceful. The underlying message seems to be "Allow parents to hit their children until the children are bigger than the parents. Then if the now bigger child hits the parents, involve the police." Nice. :glare:

 

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I understand that there is a line between appropriate discipline for a teen and abuse. I understand that children are often abused. I also understand that adults have a higher standard of self control and appropriate behavior. But there are parents who are afraid of their teens. I talked to one mother about a year ago who was terribly afraid of her son. She had received a black eye from him about a week prior to our talk. These are the situations I am thinking about. If you have wisdom to impart on parent abuse, that is what I'd like to hear.

[cindergretta]

I understand that there is a line between appropriate discipline for a teen and abuse. I understand that children are often abused. I also understand that adults have a higher standard of self control and appropriate behavior. But there are parents who are afraid of their teens. I talked to one mother about a year ago who was terribly afraid of her son. She had received a black eye from him about a week prior to our talk. These are the situations I am thinking about. If you have wisdom to impart on parent abuse, that is what I'd like to hear.

 

I apologize for going off topic. I totally agree with the concept of parent abuse by teens. In fact, the mother/daughter I mentioned probably qualify as slightly abusive towards each other, kwim?

 

I just got thrown by some of the replies that seemed to indicate any act by a teen toward a parent should be considered violent and involve the police or whatever.

 

If a child who was basically raised without violence inflicted on them becomes violent/abusive towards a parent in the teens, I would aggessively pursue mental health intervention to make sure there aren't underlying issues and would also probably investigate if the teen had gotten involved in drugs or other activities that would cause a radical shift in behaviour.

[twoforjoy]

I understand that there is a line between appropriate discipline for a teen and abuse. I understand that children are often abused. I also understand that adults have a higher standard of self control and appropriate behavior. But there are parents who are afraid of their teens. I talked to one mother about a year ago who was terribly afraid of her son. She had received a black eye from him about a week prior to our talk. These are the situations I am thinking about. If you have wisdom to impart on parent abuse, that is what I'd like to hear.

 

I guess the issue is just if that should be considered a parenting issue or a criminal issue. I'd say that in most cases, it's a parenting issue, not in the sense that the parent did something wrong, but that the parent and their extended support network, including professionals, could and should do whatever they can to handle it first.

 

Would some sort of out-of-home care be possible? My husband's cousin lived with them for about six months when they were teenagers. He had gotten into a lot of trouble, including striking his mother. Just being in a different environment seemed to help in his case. He's now a responsible, productive adult and has a good relationship with his mom.

[Jean in Newcastle]

In fact, the mother/daughter I mentioned probably qualify as slightly abusive towards each other, kwim?

 

I agree

 

 

If a child who was basically raised without violence inflicted on them becomes violent/abusive towards a parent in the teens, I would aggessively pursue mental health intervention to make sure there aren't underlying issues and would also probably investigate if the teen had gotten involved in drugs or other activities that would cause a radical shift in behaviour.

 

Good suggestions.

 

I guess the issue is just if that should be considered a parenting issue or a criminal issue. I'd say that in most cases, it's a parenting issue, not in the sense that the parent did something wrong, but that the parent and their extended support network, including professionals, could and should do whatever they can to handle it first.

 

Would some sort of out-of-home care be possible? My husband's cousin lived with them for about six months when they were teenagers. He had gotten into a lot of trouble, including striking his mother. Just being in a different environment seemed to help in his case. He's now a responsible, productive adult and has a good relationship with his mom.

 

I didn't put any scenarios in the OP because my question was not spurred by any one situation. In the past 5 years I've had friends or acquaintances or parishioners in various situations where this kind of thing has been a problem. I know from my own experience how to try to help or direct someone to help in cases of DV. This is a form of DV that I don't have immediate experience with and have been at a loss other than moral support and prayer.

 

I think that change of environment is a good suggestion too. Thank you.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I understand that there is a line between appropriate discipline for a teen and abuse. I understand that children are often abused. I also understand that adults have a higher standard of self control and appropriate behavior. But there are parents who are afraid of their teens. I talked to one mother about a year ago who was terribly afraid of her son. She had received a black eye from him about a week prior to our talk. These are the situations I am thinking about. If you have wisdom to impart on parent abuse, that is what I'd like to hear.

 

A black eye and fear would definitely make calling the police an option for me. Alternatively, if I could get intensive therapy for said child such as at a tough love sort of resident program then I would possibly consider that too.

[elegantlion]

as for the two quoted above, I would have to respectfully disagree. As a mom of a troubled teen, and as a friend of a mom of a troubled teen, sometimes getting police involvement sooner is the best choice. Then things hopefully wouldn't have escalated.

 

For my friend, the police told her she should have called sooner. She and I both didn't realize it was a police situation until after we talked to police, and by that time it was too late. You can't bring charges against someone for something that happened months ago. Well I suppose you COULD, but it wouldn't really be worth the fight. So this kid got to manipulate, control, and abuse his mother in ways which were LEGAL until her turned 18. Perhaps if she had pressed charges on him sooner she would have gotten more help.

 

That's why I said it depends. Is it a pattern, am I afraid of my teen? Is it a one time incident or did I see it coming?

 

I have previously been a victim of domestic abuse (got out of that situation), and live in a household of "hot tempered" people, myself included, although we've mellowed with age.

 

My dh was a troubled teen, we've had many discussions about how we'd approach this.

 

We believe a situation would have to elevate to a certain level before the police would be involved. But because of our experience we recognize and understand control, manipulation, and abuse. We don't take anger issues lightly, nor having a police record.

[elfgivas]

to a parent? A shove? A slap? A hit? Does force matter? Does the gender of the teen matter? Does the gender of the parent matter? Does the age of the teen matter? Should assault be automatically reported to police? I'm looking for simple information and objective opinion. There's no back story or front story for that matter to tell you.

 

i'd go back to first principles.

a) a person has a right to feel safe in their own home

b) a parent's role is to help the teen help themselves learn to behave in a way that will make them a happy and productive adult.

 

so physical violence isn't okay. as an adult, i dont' hit/spank my kids, they don't hit/spank me. ever.

 

if they did...

 

then (b) kicks in. this is not a life-giving behavior. how do we help them make a different choice?

 

can they live with us while they try to do it or do they need to live somewhere else? (both a and b above, and also how it impacts a and b for any siblings).

 

for me personally, if i ever didnt' feel safe in my house, then one of us would have to leave, either me or the teen in question. as there are other children, the teen leaving would need to be the solution.

 

i think others have answered your questions well (age, gender, etc dont' matter). i would pursue other avenues, including family councelling and residential placement before i would call the police..... or up until the moment where i was afraid for the second time. (thinking there might be a first time triggering event that would lead to councelling, etc).

 

if it is a pattern, then often people being abused need help breaking the pattern, and the police can serve that role if the councellor has been unable to.

 

hth

ann

[elizabeth]

I understand that. I am simply trying to point out that we have a dichotomy here where the use of force is Ok when perpetrated by this person against that person but NOT Ok when done in the reverse. I think it is a double standard.

 

Going back 100 years, we had the same double standard within marriage. My dh could be arrested for punching a man in a bar but if he punched me, it was a private affair, not illegal.

 

Nowadays, we can spank a 2 year old, even with an implement, and that is perfectly legal unless XYZ happens. But if a 16 year old slaps a parent, we want to call the police. And we talk about the size and gender but no one cares if 175 lb male dad spanks 30 lb female 2 year old. But let 150 lb male teen slap 110 lb female mom and now it is an issue of legal merit. I think that is disgraceful. The underlying message seems to be "Allow parents to hit their children until the children are bigger than the parents. Then if the now bigger child hits the parents, involve the police." Nice. :glare:

 

:iagree:

[Twinmom]

As one who has, unfortunately, both btdt and been a juvenile probation officer, I'd suggest aggressively pursuing mental health treatment and calling the police only if the child has been found clear of mental disease or is diagnosed specifically with a conduct disorder or sociopathic personality disorder. Those issues need firm handling and limits...not calling in those cases only invites more abuse.

 

A broad range of options exist when you are seeking treatment that suddenly become less available when and if the child is charged with an offense. When the legal system gets involved, it is often not much different than having CPS show up at your door...other people start making choices for you and listed offenses limit the places that will take your child for treatment. Sad but true....a bit of a generalization, but true nonetheless. The exception would be if there is a significant chance of serious bodily harm on the part of either party...all bets are off in that case. Call and let the chips fall where they may.

 

In our case, after much pain and suffering by all, many different treatment providers, much blaming of the parents and many different uninformed diagnoses, we finally discovered that our daughter has a mild, hard to detect brain injury that was causing literal seizures that resulted in the outbursts. Many had told us that she was incorrigible and should have the cops called on her...how lucky we feel now to have held our ground on that point and insisted on thorough brain scanning before we called on her! It was out of her control, truly. Now, we have a kid receiving proper treatment and making huge improvements instead of a kid with a record. A blessing straight from God, IMO.

 

HTH. Some kids do need their behavior called out by law enforcement, but n my experience, there are just as many who truly need help.

[Jean in Newcastle]

As one who has, unfortunately, both btdt and been a juvenile probation officer, I'd suggest aggressively pursuing mental health treatment and calling the police only if the child has been found clear of mental disease or is diagnosed specifically with a conduct disorder or sociopathic personality disorder. Those issues need firm handling and limits...not calling in those cases only invites more abuse.

 

 

HTH. Some kids do need their behavior called out by law enforcement, but n my experience, there are just as many who truly need help.

 

Very helpful. Thank you.

[bzymom]

This is a tough question. I think a decision about involving the police comes down to safety. Is this teen out of control, and presenting an ongoing threat to him/herself or others? Is there absolutely no other way to regain control of the situation? Is this an escalation of previous behaviors, i.e. verbal confrontations, refusal to follow and/or respect authority of parents?

 

If I felt one of my teens were so troubled he or she would attack me, we could not continue to live together. That complete disintegration of the structure of parent/child could not be repaired while living together, and it would not be a safe environment for siblings. My efforts would be focused on counseling options and respite for all.

 

Involving the police would be an absolute last resort here as I have seen parents call the police hoping for help restoring calm and reason to a bad situation, and perhaps direction to counseling resources, ending up with their children in the psych unit on mandatory hold, with parental authority completely gone. These were teens who needed help, and instead ended up angrier and completely distrusting their parents. Really sad.