It makes me twitch

[Scarlett]

I also have a hard time looking at our friends as potential "predators."

 

I thought that once too. :) My best friend was married to a man that everyone thought the world of. He seemed True Blue. Several times through out their marriage he said weird things to me that left me going :001_huh:. I thought there must be something wrong with me for having even the THOUGHT that he was hitting on me. Turns out he was hitting on me. And as vulernable as *I* was in my crappy marriage I shudder to think what could have happened. He turned out to be a HUGE cheater and there is a long line of friends like me (I had thought of us as brother/sister--I loved him!) who had been hit on in similar ways.

 

I am much more cautious now.

[Parrothead]

I don't understand that. Why cheat then? If you love your spouse and love your life together, why cheat? Idiocy?

Some people are weak. Some people can't back down from a challenge. Some people are idiots. Some people like variety. Some people are self absorbed. The list can go on and on.

 

But that still does not mean every little affectionate gesture between friends of the opposite sex is of a sexual nature.

[annandatje]

Not trying to be argumentative, but the bolded above is absolutely not true. Sometimes, often times, a spouse will cheat when there is nothing wrong at home. And many spouses are faithful when EVERYTHING is wrong at home.

 

:iagree: Affairs have mostly everything to do with the character and viewpoint of the one engaging in the affair and probably very little to do with shortcomings of spouse.

 

People tend to rationalize their own affairs as pure sacrosanct love and tell themselves that it just happened or that it happened because the were not loved enough by the spouse. Affairs do not just happen, and it is silly to claim unconsciousness. They require careful planning and execution depending upon circumstances. It is always the other person's affair that is tawdry and backstreet.

 

One phenomenon that I find interesting is that it seems that women tend to get a freer pass than do men for adultery.

[Bluegoat]

Physical affection varies a lot. I went to a wedding a few years ago I am sure some would have thought I was ignoring my husband and being very affectionate with another guy. Well, the other guy was my very close friend who I hadn't seen in 7 years, we became Christians together, he's a godparent to one of my kids, he is someone I've been through a lot with. And I tend to be affectionate with people I am really close to.

 

But there has never been any kind of romantic issue with us.

 

I think people get really crazy about this stuff - I have known people who wouldn't allow their spouse to have opposite sex friends. My dad even had a girlfriend who was ticked when he wanted to dance with other women (mostly family members) at a wedding, after she refused to dance herself.

 

If people don't know boundaries, then being careful in public won't help. And really affectionate stuff in public settings is different to a degree than affection in a private setting. The latter would be something IMO that requires more care.

[Jennifer3141]

I thought that once too. :) My best friend was married to a man that everyone thought the world of. He seemed True Blue. Several times through out their marriage he said weird things to me that left me going :001_huh:. I thought there must be something wrong with me for having even the THOUGHT that he was hitting on me. Turns out he was hitting on me. And as vulernable as *I* was in my crappy marriage I shudder to think what could have happened. He turned out to be a HUGE cheater and there is a long line of friends like me (I had thought of us as brother/sister--I loved him!) who had been hit on in similar ways.

 

I am much more cautious now.

 

 

But he was HITTING ON YOU!!! So I would say he wasn't True Blue from the start. He sounds like a sociopath actually.

 

When DH and I get hit on, it just rolls awkwardly around on the floor because neither of us wants to be with anyone else.

 

It rolls particularly awkwardly around on the floor for DH because as an Aspie, you practicualy have to knock him upside the head. And because he spent most of his life as a nerd, he doesn't get it when women think he's hot. So I usually have to explain it to him.

 

It's awkward when someone hits on me because I will call you out publicaly if I think you're being a jerk. So only one person has ever been stupid enough to do that in the 15 years DH and I have been together and well, I doubt that dope made the same mistake twice. :D

[Scarlett]

Some people are weak. Some people can't back down from a challenge. Some people are idiots. Some people like variety. Some people are self absorbed. The list can go on and on.

 

 

A good list. THe ones I've known about personally seem to have a hole in them that cannot be filled.

 

 

Yes. I agree. I am fairly affectionate. I however, do not touch other men that I see on a regular basis. Dh and I were discussing this the other day and realized we reserve that for situations where we haven't seen someone in a long time or if there is celebration or perhaps grief.

[Scarlett]

But he was HITTING ON YOU!!! So I would say he wasn't True Blue from the start. He sounds like a sociopath actually.

 

 

My point is you don't always know who the sociopaths are. It is just good to be cautious. Not saying you aren't.

[Jennifer3141]

I agree that affairs are a character issue. That's another reason why I think DH and I feel so secure with each other. I've seen DH's character tested and I really like it! And he feels the same about me.

[8circles]

Affairs have mostly everything to do with the character and viewpoint of the one engaging in the affair and probably very little to do with shortcomings of spouse.

Which is why I think so many are disagreeing with the OP. Being photographed with someone - not your spouse - in close physical contact shouldn't say anything about that person's character.

[Jennifer3141]

My point is you don't always know who the sociopaths are. It is just good to be cautious. Not saying you aren't.

 

Ah. There's a good point too. Luckily, DH has actually had training to recognize sociopaths and I've got good intuition so I'm usually right behind him in spotting one. :)

 

I just talked to DH about this again (he loves these random lunch conversations!!) and his advice is to tell all the women here to marry spectrum/Aspie men. He said the affair thing would just be too hard for him to catalogue in his brain. He has a really hard time lying. He doesn't get nervous or anything. It's just really hard for him to have a lie in his brain or to suspend rationality (and this is the same reason he cannot do religion so that was an interesting discussion tangent for us).

 

He did crack that he could see me doing it since I'm a big ho though. :lol::lol::lol:

[Scarlett]

Which is why I think so many are disagreeing with the OP. Being photographed with someone - not your spouse - in close physical contact shouldn't say anything about that person's character.

 

I agree.

 

However, I do want to mention that our character is not set in stone. Really good people do really bad things sometimes and the consequences can be devastating. They are not immune to temptation. Prevention is better than the cure.

[nono]

Sometimes, often times, a spouse will cheat when there is nothing wrong at home.

 

My first marriage.

 

And many spouses are faithful when EVERYTHING is wrong at home.

 

My second marriage.

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

It's good to keep in mind that pictures can take a 3D scene and make somethings look different in 2D. The differences may not be apparent to the folks who experienced the event in 3D. So, someone may see something less innocent in a picture of a very innocent occurrence.

Edited October 7, 2011 by nono
spelling

[Amy in NH]

Maybe it's a brother, cousin, uncle, or best friend from high school?

[Renee in NC]

My first marriage.

 

 

 

My second marriage.

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

It's good to keep in mind that pictures can take a 3D scene and make somethings look different in 2D. The differences may not be apparent to the folks who experienced the event in 3D. So, someone may see something less innocent in a picture of a very innocent occurrence.

 

Ummm, yes. I have some VERY imcriminating pictures of a friend's now husband and another friend of ours at a party that really wasn't what it looks like in the pictures.:lol:

[SailorMom]

As a military family our friends become our family. The guys kiss me on the cheek. They hug me. They put their arm around me for a photo. They are like my brothers or brothers-in-law. There is intimacy, but not a romantic type of intimacy. If something happened to my husband, they are the ones who would bring him home. They are the ones I call when my dh is gone and there is a mouse in my house. Most of us are Christians, some are extremely conservative.

 

If you don't have those types of relationships, that is fine, but don't put your stuff on other people.

 

 

:iagree:

[Joanne]

I also have a hard time looking at our friends as potential "predators." DH worked 134 hours last week. Now it's possible, he got a little something on the side physically I guess but there would still have to be something wrong here at home.

 

:

 

I still don't see the OP content as a frequent issue. I just don't get it. I may be reading it wrong.

 

A couple of years ago, I worked in bars. I saw lots of stuff. Pics could have captured moments in time that seemed suspect, but represented nothing. I am not anti-bar, anti-playful, anti-alcohol or anti-affection.

 

In anycase, I see you made the above about your marriage. I wanted to say I don't believe it's true across the board. I believe that it takes 2 to MAKE a marriage, but only one to ruin it.

[littlebug42]

Some people are weak. Some people can't back down from a challenge. Some people are idiots. Some people like variety. Some people are self absorbed. The list can go on and on.

 

But that still does not mean every little affectionate gesture between friends of the opposite sex is of a sexual nature.

 

:iagree:

 

This is exactly how I feel. I am 100 % secure in my marriage. I am not threatened by my husband showing affection to our friends as he is not with me. One of our groomsmen was even a man that I had dated previously. If someone in our lives chooses not to agree with our stance on that, then so be it, although I really don't think it is anyone else's business but ours (and our friends).

[kewb]

If I see my married friends on facebook in a picture with a man/woman who is not their spouse and the unknown individual has their arm around my friend I may pause and think "Hmmm." Or I might think "Cute pic. or I wonder who that is?" Other then that it is a non-issue in my life. Now, if said friend is groping the other individual then I might become judgemental and say something.

[Jennifer3141]

In anycase, I see you made the above about your marriage. I wanted to say I don't believe it's true across the board. I believe that it takes 2 to MAKE a marriage, but only one to ruin it.

 

I think if my DH did have an affair, I would be blind with rage for a long time but I would also want to know why. Maybe I would have done nothing wrong. But I would still feel there had to be a "why."

[Joanne]

I think if my DH did have an affair, I would be blind with rage for a long time but I would also want to know why. Maybe I would have done nothing wrong. But I would still feel there had to be a "why."

 

I agree. I just don't think that a "why" = something wrong at home. My personal experience is sometimes that why has to do with the individual and not the marriage.

[Haiku]

She was talking about women she KNOWS

 

And she's assuming something based on those pictures that she attached a very negative judgment to. Judgment and assumption. I guess we do see it differently.

 

As far as her right to express her opinion ... absolutely she has one. And when she does, she is inviting people to respond, and I did.

 

Tara

[QuirkyKapers]

This thread is very interesting to me and I have several thoughts/questions. I understand that just by looking at a picture with arms drapped around each other of the opposite sex doesn't necessarily mean anything. I also get that some people are more touchy feely than others. However, when is it going over the line? I know that may seem silly but if you or your spouse are going to bars twice a week, three times a week, four times a week without each other and you are touchy is it a problem? Maybe just going to the bar isn't a problem but what if you are drinking. a lot. What if you are going to the bar with your spouse, is that different? Just curious what people think....like I said, it is helpful to hear from others who have different thoughts ...:)

Edited October 7, 2011 by QuirkyKapers

[UmMusa]

Ok, well I don't see where I'm passing any judment on anyone. I've just stated how it bothers me to see a married friend be close to other men..and I was not insinuation an affair was happening or that the marriage was in trouble. I know this thing happens casually in many circles. It would not in my circle, and I'm happy with that.

 

I've been a little shy to reply again after reading all the replies! Intimidated might be the more correct word. Anyhow, you've given me a chance to really look into my thoughts and attitudes in general; a little soul-searching. I really don't think I was passing judgment, just commenting. I feel like some of you have been a little harsh on me, but, hey, I brought it up didn't I!

 

It's cool.

[Jennifer3141]

I agree. I just don't think that a "why" = something wrong at home. My personal experience is sometimes that why has to do with the individual and not the marriage.

 

But again, I just don't know of any divorces where an affair happened and there wasn't something "wrong." It might have seemed insignificant to me but it was enough for the spouse.

 

Again, I'm coming from a marriage with a true Aspie. When something is "off," he tells me. Bluntly. Immediately. It took a while to get used to it but I almost wish this for more people. My relationship with my DH is the least complicated one I've ever had with any other human being. :lol:

[Jennifer3141]

This thread is very interesting to me and I have several thoughts/questions. I understand that just by looking at a picture with arms drapped around each other of the opposite sex doesn't necessarily mean anything. I also get that some people are more touchy feely than others. However, when is it going over the line? I know that may seem silly but if you or your spouse are going to bars twice a week, three times a week, four times a week without each other and you are touchy is it a problem? Maybe just going to the bar isn't a problem but what if you are drinking. a lot. What if you are going to the bar with your spouse, is that different? Just curious what people think....like I said, it is helpful to hear from others who have different thoughts ...:)

 

Reb, the one thing this thread should illustrate is that the line is different for every person and every relationship. The marriages that are strongest are probably very clear about this issue.

[Scarlett]

But again, I just don't know of any divorces where an affair happened and there wasn't something "wrong." It might have seemed insignificant to me but it was enough for the spouse.

 

 

It sounds as if you are saying adultery is justified.

[Scarlett]

But again, I just don't know of any divorces where an affair happened and there wasn't something "wrong." It might have seemed insignificant to me but it was enough for the spouse.

 

 

Enough for the spouse to do what? I just do not understand what you are saying here.

[Jennifer3141]

It sounds as if you are saying adultery is justified.

 

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. You got me. :001_huh::glare:

 

DH and I have been close to four couples that dealt with infidelity that we know of. I can honestly say that in all four instances, neither of us was surprised. There was something that was understandably not right in three of them. Would cheating have been our response to the situation? No. But it was the spouses responses.

 

Only one of those "wrong" things made DH and I scratch our heads. We figured that was just how marriage worked!!

 

As it turns out, 7 years later that guy is on his sixth wife - all have been nurse co-workers. So what was mostly "wrong" in that first marriage is that he's got some serious issues. And after the 3rd wedding, every time we get a wedding inivtation, we burst out laughing. The guy is a pyschiatrist. :lol:

[5of5]

So what was mostly "wrong" in that first marriage is that he's got some serious issues.

 

Are you just saying that it isn't causeless?

 

Because, I don't think anyone is arguing that it happens without any cause at all. But if may happen solely due to an "issue" with one person in the marriage.

[Scarlett]

DH and I have been close to four couples that dealt with infidelity that we know of. I can honestly say that in all four instances, neither of us was surprised. There was something that was understandably not right in three of them. Would cheating have been our response to the situation? No. But it was the spouses responses.

 

What sort of wrong things make it ok to commit adultery?

 

It should never be anyone's 'response' to ANY trouble in a marriage.

[Jennifer3141]

What sort of wrong things make it ok to commit adultery?

 

It should never be anyone's 'response' to ANY trouble in a marriage.

 

As I've said before, I don't think infidelity is a correct response to a real or perceived injury but I have understood how it happened in at least one instance. Both DH and I are still both friends with those former spouses too.

 

In that instance, a horrible tragedy started a progression that neither spouse seemed to know how to stop. We were trapped on the outside and tried to help but there was this chasm of horror that neither spouse could seem to gulf for the other. So when it came out that one of the spouses was cheating, no one was really surprised.

 

What happened to start it was that one of the spouses allowed their parent who had recovered from alcoholism 10 years prior to this, to take their two kids away for a weekend. For some reason, that grandparent drank while the children were there and then took them for a drive. Everyone died instantly in a fiery car crash. There were no bodies of the children left mostly. It was horrific.

 

The couple just never recovered; despite counseling, support groups, support from friends, etc. etc. They just never bounced back.

[annandatje]

What sort of wrong things make it ok to commit adultery?

 

It should never be anyone's 'response' to ANY trouble in a marriage.

 

 

Exactly. My perpetually miserable (now ex) brother in law looked up his former high school sweetheart on the internet.

 

Bil had been with my disabled sister for 13 years. Sweetheart had been married 31 years to her husband, who was disabled by stroke 11 years prior.

 

Once they were having their affair, it was all justified because they had "always been unhappy" with their respective spouses. Never had either of them sought marriage or personal counseling. It's human nature I guess to not make a move until you spot greener grass.

[Margaret in GA]

I have to say I know several people (both male and female) that love to hang all over each other. At times, it makes me a little uncomfortable. Having said that, I do greet my good guy friends with a hug and sometimes a kiss, but that's it. A greeting- not a constant embrace. If someone were taking a photo, maybe I would scooch in a bit and put my arm around whoever is nearby. I'm not sure how that might look in a photo. So, I'm open minded when I see photos, but in person, I do know some people that ick me out.

[8circles]

Ok, well I don't see where I'm passing any judment on anyone. I've just stated how it bothers me to see a married friend be close to other men..and I was not insinuation an affair was happening or that the marriage was in trouble. I know this thing happens casually in many circles. It would not in my circle, and I'm happy with that.

But what about that bothers you? The act in & of itself of someone being close to someone not their spouse? That its in a photograph? That its posted online for many people to see? What part of it bothers you?

I've been a little shy to reply again after reading all the replies! Intimidated might be the more correct word. Anyhow, you've given me a chance to really look into my thoughts and attitudes in general; a little soul-searching. I really don't think I was passing judgment, just commenting. I feel like some of you have been a little harsh on me, but, hey, I brought it up didn't I!

 

It's cool.

 

I don't think I've been harsh & I apologize if I have. I don't mean to be. I just don't see where the problem is in what you've posted if you aren't passing judgement.

It makes me twitch when I see pictures of women I know, who are married, who are out at a bar/restaurant/party and some MAN who is not her husband has his arm around her or is extremetly close to her.

 

Ok, I admit I'm conservative in my faith, so obviously I"m going to feel this, but I wasn't a religious person, and it still bothered me then. I feel like asking "why are you letting this kind of closeness happen and this kind of social intimacy happen??".

 

:(

 

It's with women I love and are close either as family or friends.

[Mrs Mungo]

One phenomenon that I find interesting is that it seems that women tend to get a freer pass than do men for adultery.

 

That has not been my experience, except maybe in one case, but she was in severe denial about it.

 

I have to say I know several people (both male and female) that love to hang all over each other. At times, it makes me a little uncomfortable. Having said that, I do greet my good guy friends with a hug and sometimes a kiss, but that's it. A greeting- not a constant embrace. If someone were taking a photo, maybe I would scooch in a bit and put my arm around whoever is nearby. I'm not sure how that might look in a photo. So, I'm open minded when I see photos, but in person, I do know some people that ick me out.

 

I agree with this. There are people whose behavior I find over the line. I just don't really see how you get that from a photo, especially of someone you don't know that well.

[lionfamily1999]

Is having a response to particular photographed situations so odd? I twitch when I see photos of little girls sitting on the laps of men. It doesn't matter who the men are, those pictures (even the Santa Claus ones) gives the creeps for a moment. I'm not judging Santa, or the little girl, it's just how I feel when I see those pics. When I see pics of some women (especially those with a history of adultery, or the ones married to my relatives) and they're hanging all over some other man, I get a vague sense of dread. Now, I'm sure the vast majority of those pictures are innocent, but it doesn't stop me from feeling dreadful when I first see them.

Ok, well I don't see where I'm passing any judment on anyone. I've just stated how it bothers me to see a married friend be close to other men..and I was not insinuation an affair was happening or that the marriage was in trouble. I know this thing happens casually in many circles. It would not in my circle, and I'm happy with that.

 

I've been a little shy to reply again after reading all the replies! Intimidated might be the more correct word. Anyhow, you've given me a chance to really look into my thoughts and attitudes in general; a little soul-searching. I really don't think I was passing judgment, just commenting. I feel like some of you have been a little harsh on me, but, hey, I brought it up didn't I!

 

It's cool.

:grouphug: :iagree:

[Tap]

I don't really think about it. Dh and I both work closely with members of the opposite sex. Dh and my lives are open books to each other and we even share an email address. I spend as much time, and often More time with a male coworker than I do my husband. Dh has traveled out of town with a female co worker more times than I can count. We both have pictures of us with members of the opposite sex. With arms around each other and our closeness shows!

 

I would rather see the pictures and have open communication.

 

I have 3 close women friends who had affairs or relationships that started while they were living with a legal husband. The one thing that was common with them all.....it was all secret to the husband. There were no photos, there was no evidence.