Workplace Rudeness

[Aelwydd]

Well I think it's really hard to judge if the HR person was rude or mean or practical or what; I think you'd have to wait and see whether there is a pattern of behavior with this individual (that either she has something against this particular employee, or she's tighter with money), or maybe there was a complaint from the hotel or a command from higher up the chain not to order anything additional anymore. There just isn't any way to know, I don't think.

 

FWIW I have been in similar situations and it is awkward; I may be stricter than your friend in that we avoid all meat products that are not halaal dhabiha, so any of the meat or cheese on those trays would have been off limits to me. If someone asked why I was only eating chips I would probably have said I wasn't very hungry or wanted to eat later.

 

At one of my prior jobs our department closed a major deal and my boss wanted everyone to go out for a drink at a local bar afterwards to celebrate. I tried to back out (I'm busy, I have to leave, etc.) but she *insisted*. I felt so so awkward, but didn't want to "play the Muslim card" either and alienate myself from the group. It's just a terribly awkward position to be in, I feel badly for your friend on that point.

 

I'm sorry that you've been made to feel that way. Z didn't have any of the veggies or cheeses either--just the chips.

 

I know some people here don't get why this bothers me so much. It bothers me because if it had been me, I would have felt really...humiliated. Like I was getting punished in front of the group.

 

That's why I'm upset. I don't know if this is a one-time thing with this HR manager or not, like I said, it may have just been a bad day or something. What she did was hurtful enough though that I really have to work not to show my dislike of her. I tend to be protective of my friends, and Z did not deserve to be treated that way.

[5kidsforME]

Uh, no? They make the food. Banquet staff are the ones who lay it out.

 

In any case, the food layout is for a group, not an individual. This is why it is (or has been) acceptable for individuals in a meeting to place special orders if they need it. There's a lady in accounting who breastfeeds, and she eats a gluten-free diet. Nobody messed with her last month when she asked the server for a dish completely different from the rest of us at the table. Nobody even cared (why would we?!).

 

Is there some reason why people here don't want to believe me when I say that the only thing "special" about Z's request is that it got denied??

 

 

Well, so far you have not said Z requested anything.

 

The problem I have with threads like these is that they change. I understand if you totally forgot to put something in the original OP. But pretty much anyone that tried to say, maybe it isn't racism (which seems to be what you are alluding to in this whole thread) maybe it was because of budget purposes, etc. you have rebutted with another tidbit to sure up your defence, so to speak. Each response has been so slanted towards your feelings that the HR woman is pretty much evil and and your friend is a saint. I have a feeling its somewhere in the middle. ;)

 

What it comes down to is, either the HR woman doesn't like Muslims, doesn't like your friend, or there is a legitimate reason for what she did. You are automatically assuming the worst.

[Aelwydd]

I get that, I would want to know why. And the hr person's manner when she said no. Is there anyone in your group who is casual enough with this person to ask why without making it into a formal thing (if you get what I mean)?

 

I've been actually wracking my brain thinking of the same thing myself. There's one manager she's friends with who could approach her. But if he did so, she'd know someone said something, and I don't know her well enough to predict if she'd react with concern, or with defensive anger and take it out on Z.

 

That's why I think I have to stay out of it. If I say something, I could end up making things much worse for Z.

[In2why]

I'm trying not to! The reason I shared this was ways to help deal with this HR manager's rude behavior, not have her behavior explained away.

 

As I said, this request was hardly unusual or strange. I've made requests before, such as when I wasn't feeling well, and requested soup and bread. Others have made different requests, due to diets, allergies, etc.

 

It didn't get weird at all until the HR manager intervened. That's when it got awkward, because everyone got the same look on their face: "WTH?!"

 

 

I think your friend is a grown woman and if she feels that the HR woman was rude, she should bring it up to her. Sometimes in our rush to be tolerant we wind up infantilizing the people we want to support the most.

 

If you were the woman in question and posted that you felt slighted, then I would support you in that to the fullest, and wouldn't care whether the HR woman meant to offend or not, but I would suggest that you choose a time when you were calm and bring the issue up with her and have a suggestion as to how you could be accommodated in the future. If her reaction was negative or rude then I would tell you to document everything and kick it up the chain if it was an important issue to you.

[kolamum]

:grouphug:

 

I don't care what the reason was, I find it rude.

 

Maybe the HR woman is like half the world and thinks all Muslims are extremists and thus felt it was her place to cause this non-extremist a bit of unneeded stress to "even the odds". Now, I'm not saying she did, and I know that statement comes off as very judgemental so shame on me..

 

But it really REALLY bugs me to see people not accommodated when it's possible and feasible. It really makes me wonder how many people in the workplace know that this women is Muslim and are just itching for a reason to have her pack her bags. Again, I could be very wrong there...

 

Last time we traveled a Muslim woman was on the plane and this jerk of a man got on and singled her out demanding she get out of his chair and on and on.. Caused such a scene and turned out HE was in the wrong and the steward directed him to his chair which was, unfortunately, right in front of us. He verbally tortured my kids the entire ride, when his language and threats got out of hand the people in his row told him to clam up before a steward was called. Some people are just rude people. :glare:

[Aelwydd]

Well, so far you have not said Z requested anything.

 

 

 

I did state in the OP that the coworker next to her encouraged her to order something, which she was going to do. She started to say she was going to get something, but that's when the HR manager butted in, and shook her head no.

 

I realize that I didn't include every single detail, but I was trying to keep the story from being novel length. I was trying to give a summary of the situation. My point of the sharing was to get ideas of how to handle the situation with the HR person, not describe to others how, in excruciating detail, everything unfolded, so people can really believe me that, yes, my friend was treated badly, and no, it wasn't anything she did to deserve it.

[Aelwydd]

:grouphug:

 

I don't care what the reason was, I find it rude.

 

 

 

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

I really don't know the HR director's feelings on Muslims. Being Jewish doesn't mean she must dislike them (I know that's not what you're saying).

 

I'm actually hoping that it was just something personal going on in her life and it won't happen again. Her job requires a lot more sensitivity than she showed at that meeting.

[Cheryl in NM]

I can understand you being upset, but Z isn't. Since you were made uncomfortable by the HR manager's actions that entitles you to mention something to her. Going to another employee to have them mention it to her is the wrong course of action. Direct is best. If this isn't an option for you then you need to let it go. Z isn't upset, she's blowing it off, she doesn't wish to address with HR. If I were her friend I would respect her feelings enough to get over it and move on. It's frustrating when things change after we've come to count on them. That could be addressed. Nothing will change if all you do is complain and be mad. Gently said here, because I can see how upset you are, pull up your BGP and deal directly with the situation or let it go.

[Aelwydd]

Well, so far you have not said Z requested anything.

 

What it comes down to is, either the HR woman doesn't like Muslims, doesn't like your friend, or there is a legitimate reason for what she did. You are automatically assuming the worst.

 

Right, so despite the several instances in this thread where I stated I don't assume it's racism or religious intolerance, that it was probably her having a crappy day, and that I don't know anything about her feelings have no bearing. That is "assuming the worse?" When I keep saying, I'm making no assumptions about her motives, and I don't know what they are?

 

I am not "slanting" anything towards my friend. The facts are she's Muslim, she doesn't eat pork, but she was denied the choice to order something else, even though many of us have done the same thing many times over. And likely will again in future.

 

I also know for a fact, having worked in the hospitality industry myself in years past, and having direct business with this hotel, that there is about a 0.001% of our company getting any additional charge for a side request like that. When the company is paying close to a a quarter million annually on rooms, meeting space, events, catering, and business meetings, it's absurd that the hotel staff would even pause to provide special meal requests like this. They are constantly giving "free" stuff away to our meeting planners, because that's the hospitality industry.

 

But, even if the hotel was foolish enough to stick small charges like this to the bill, the company is having us come in on our off day for a meeting, and it's always shown itself to be accommodating to us employees in things like this. If they had suddenly changed their policy in this regard, I would have at the very least, expected a memo or an email to the effect of: "Dear employee, due to raising costs, blah, blah, blah, we will unfortunately not be able to continue to provide special food item requests during monthly meetings, more blah, blah, blah."

 

Ok? We didn't get that.

 

So, either the hotel and/or the company has suddenly gotten very stingy since last month and failed to tell us, or the HR manager was just being a pill.

[Aelwydd]

I appreciate the responses I've gotten, even the critical ones. Several seem skeptical that the HR manager even did anything in poor taste, and while I really can't understand that, neither can I make someone see my side of it.

 

Here's the thing: it seems most of you agree that the best thing to do is just to play it cool, and not get involved? This is what I think, too, even though I really badly want to say something. I'm sharing this here to partly blow off steam, so I can be calm about it at work tomorrow.

 

So thanks for your comments and advice. It's helped me a lot!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think your friend is a grown woman and if she feels that the HR woman was rude, she should bring it up to her. Sometimes in our rush to be tolerant we wind up infantilizing the people we want to support the most.

 

If you were the woman in question and posted that you felt slighted, then I would support you in that to the fullest, and wouldn't care whether the HR woman meant to offend or not, but I would suggest that you choose a time when you were calm and bring the issue up with her and have a suggestion as to how you could be accommodated in the future. If her reaction was negative or rude then I would tell you to document everything and kick it up the chain if it was an important issue to you.

 

:iagree:

[Rosie_0801]

Well I would go and find out what the problem was because I believe in sticking up for my friends too. Problems never get solved if no one tries.

 

Rosie

[Mama Geek]

It is just life that when you have a special diet that you have to be an advocate for yourself. Dh gets really sick on gluten. He will either take his own lunch or arrange ahead of time with whoever is coordinating the meeting. Usually he takes his own food though.

[lynn]

Maybe she said "no", because there would be a cost involved and they weren't authorized for any costs except what was already spent.

 

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

Maybe her whole family were killed by Muslin extremist. You just don't know why people react the way they do.

 

ETA: I've seen and heard of people doing a lot worse for people with life threatening food allergies.

 

:iagree:

[Rebecca VA]

I agree with those who are saying it's not *that* big a deal. There are probably reasons you're not aware of that made her do what she did. Really, you should let it go.

[LaxMom]

:grouphug:

 

I don't care what the reason was, I find it rude.

 

Maybe the HR woman is like half the world and thinks all Muslims are extremists and thus felt it was her place to cause this non-extremist a bit of unneeded stress to "even the odds". Now, I'm not saying she did, and I know that statement comes off as very judgemental so shame on me..

 

But it really REALLY bugs me to see people not accommodated when it's possible and feasible. It really makes me wonder how many people in the workplace know that this women is Muslim and are just itching for a reason to have her pack her bags. Again, I could be very wrong there...

 

Last time we traveled a Muslim woman was on the plane and this jerk of a man got on and singled her out demanding she get out of his chair and on and on.. Caused such a scene and turned out HE was in the wrong and the steward directed him to his chair which was, unfortunately, right in front of us. He verbally tortured my kids the entire ride, when his language and threats got out of hand the people in his row told him to clam up before a steward was called. Some people are just rude people. :glare:

 

I agree. Just rude. And as a host, if I coordinated a meal that any attendee could not eat, *I* would be mortified and would quietly correct it through whatever means necessary. In this instance, it seems like just placing an order would not have been out of the ordinary so no undue spotlight on "Z".

 

Well I would go and find out what the problem was because I believe in sticking up for my friends too. Problems never get solved if no one tries.

 

Rosie

:iagree:

[Stacy in NJ]

It appears like you want to be offend on your friends behalf.

 

Tons of people have dietary restrictions. Some relate to religion some don't (vegans, gluten intolerance, allergies). Anyone providing food for a group of people is treading a narrow margin of what any one person can or cannot consume.

 

My guess it that the HR manager didn't want to provide special food for your friend because she/he would than be opening the flood gates to all the other requests for special food from others with special food needs. If she honored one special request why wouldn't she need to honor any others?

 

I agree with the prior comment that you may be infantilizing your friend. I assume she's a big girl, it this was an issue for her, I'm sure she'd handle it on her own.

[Lovin Learnin]

Simply because the HR manager shut down the conversation my take on the situation would have been that your friend and this manager have had this conversation before. Perhaps your friend asked for accommodations or concessions at a previous event. Maybe she was told it was too difficult or expensive or whatever to have the kitchen change the menu or the process of serving for just one person. Or maybe HR offered to make her a special plate but your friend didn't want to eat ANYTHING she didn't prepare herself for fear of cross contamination. Resolved or not, it could be that this has already been addressed by the parties involved. However, If HR tried to be accommodating I would think they would make some effort to let staff know so that people don't think management is being insensitive.

[laughing lioness]

My .02. Perhaps the fact that your friend picks and chooses what rules of her religion she'll follow and what she won't has left an impression. There's no problem with that but to expect dererential treatment based on what looks like arbitrary decision making = narcissm. No judgement in what I'm saying- I think everyone (consciously or not) does the same thing.

[Aelwydd]

My .02. Perhaps the fact that your friend picks and chooses what rules of her religion she'll follow and what she won't has left an impression. There's no problem with that but to expect dererential treatment based on what looks like arbitrary decision making = narcissm. No judgement in what I'm saying- I think everyone (consciously or not) does the same thing.

 

Please re-read this thread, because I clearly and repeatedly have explained that she did not ask for anything deferential or special.

[lionfamily1999]

And, technically, it was cross contaminated way back in the kitchen when it was all sliced together.

This and she probably already knew that would be an issue.

 

I was wondering, reading the OP, if the person offering realized that (istm) anything brought from the kitchen would be contaminated. I assume there was food that was not touched with the tongs (like bread), but those things were not eaten. Why? I'm going to guess it's because they could have been contaminated. IOW, the only food she did take was pre packaged and sealed.

So what if her family were killed by Muslim extremists? Does that mean that the families of the Oklahoma City bomber's victims have carte blanch permission to act rudely to all Army veterans?

 

It does mean that certain allowances should be made, imo ;) I would not be shocked or appalled if a survivor from Nazi Germany continued to distrust or dislike Germans. My grandmother continues to distrust/dislike the Japanese. Years in a prison camp will do that to a person :shrug: They have their reasons and (ito) those reasons are very sound. From the outside, their reason at least has some grounds.

Edited October 7, 2011 by lionfamily1999
Thank goodness that was deleted :D

[Aelwydd]

It appears like you want to be offend on your friends behalf.

 

I agree with the prior comment that you may be infantilizing your friend. I assume she's a big girl, it this was an issue for her, I'm sure she'd handle it on her own.

 

It appears that you and a few other posters have not read what I said closely enough.

 

From page three of this thread:

 

So, my friend, who I'll call "Z," took it with good grace, and pretended like it was no big deal. I offered to treat her to lunch afterward, and during the meal, I told her I didn't understand why the HR manager made such a big deal about ordering something else, and it was really weird. She shrugged and laughed it off, but it was obvious she was bothered by it, because it happened in front of her other coworkers.

 

I have said that she chose to not make a big deal about--not that she wasn't hurt by it.

 

Again, people, I asked in my OP for opinions on how to deal with the HR manager. Not for reinterpretations of the situation.

 

I was there, I can recognize rudeness when I see it.

[Aelwydd]

 

It does mean that certain allowances should be made, imo ;) I would not be shocked or appalled if a survivor from Nazi Germany continued to distrust or dislike Germans. My grandmother continues to distrust/dislike the Japanese. Years in a prison camp will do that to a person :shrug: They have their reasons and (ito) those reasons are very sound. From the outside, their reason at least has some grounds.

 

Your grandmother can harbor her distrust all she likes. She does not, however, have the right to inflict harm on others in a position of authority at a workplace.

[lionfamily1999]

Your grandmother can harbor her distrust all she likes. She does not, however, have the right to inflict harm on others in a position of authority at a workplace.

You're assuming she was inflicting harm, though. You haven't asked her, right?

[Rebecca VA]

Harm on others? Was your friend being tortured? Wasn't this just a meeting (which would soon end) and your friend was perfectly free to eat beforehand or afterward or bring whatever food she wanted to bring?

 

No offense intended, but I think you're getting too emotionally involved in this situation. It was a passing incident.

[5of5]

It does strike me as peculiar and rude.

 

As an aside, though, every place I've worked, people generally thought HR was the worst department in the company. They'd rather deal with the DMV than HR. They often seem like they are on a power trip and very passive-aggressive. This isn't very helpful, I know, but when I read your OP, my initial reaction was -- well, sure, what do you expect from HR? :glare:

[Aelwydd]

Simply because the HR manager shut down the conversation my take on the situation would have been that your friend and this manager have had this conversation before. Perhaps your friend asked for accommodations or concessions at a previous event. Maybe she was told it was too difficult or expensive or whatever to have the kitchen change the menu or the process of serving for just one person. Or maybe HR offered to make her a special plate but your friend didn't want to eat ANYTHING she didn't prepare herself for fear of cross contamination. Resolved or not, it could be that this has already been addressed by the parties involved. However, If HR tried to be accommodating I would think they would make some effort to let staff know so that people don't think management is being insensitive.

 

No, it had not been addressed, and again, please stop injecting pure conjecture into this thread.

 

I have already addressed the "expense" justification multiple times.

 

I mentioned that Z and I talked during lunch after the meeting. Please rest assured there was no "special accommodation" by HR--she was as flummoxed about the whole thing as I was. Nobody has told her anything.

[Aelwydd]

Harm on others? Was your friend being tortured? Wasn't this just a meeting (which would soon end) and your friend was perfectly free to eat beforehand or afterward or bring whatever food she wanted to bring?

 

No offense intended, but I think you're getting too emotionally involved in this situation. It was a passing incident.

 

I consider rude treatment in front of others embarrassing, hurtful, and therefore harmful.

 

I don't know why the length of the meeting matters, but it lasted 3 1/2 hours.

[laughing lioness]

Please re-read this thread, because I clearly and repeatedly have explained that she did not ask for anything deferential or special.

 

I realize that. My point was that this might have been the reason the HR mgr responded the way that they did and why your friend did not make a big deal of it.

[Aelwydd]

You're assuming she was inflicting harm, though. You haven't asked her, right?

 

No, I am not "assuming" anything. Please re-read this thread again, specifically the last few pages. It is people here ignoring what I wrote, and injecting their own opinions and/or interpretations, when I haven't asked for, nor needed them.

 

Do you have a comment to make about how to deal with a rude manager? Please share. But, I don't appreciate having people who weren't even there tell me a, the lady wasn't rude, and b, it wasn't hurtful to Z.

 

She was, and it was.

[Rebecca VA]

It may have been a little thoughtless (or maybe not, depending on the reasoning behind the decision), but for you to stew about it for the past day or so is not healthy. Be a little extra nice to your friend if you want, but let this go. It's not that horrible.

[LaxMom]

It appears like you want to be offend on your friends behalf.

 

Tons of people have dietary restrictions. Some relate to religion some don't (vegans, gluten intolerance, allergies). Anyone providing food for a group of people is treading a narrow margin of what any one person can or cannot consume.

 

My guess it that the HR manager didn't want to provide special food for your friend because she/he would than be opening the flood gates to all the other requests for special food from others with special food needs. If she honored one special request why wouldn't she need to honor any others?

Actually, if you read Rebekah's prior comments, the norm is to honor requests. Refusing to honor a request is what is outside the norm, and why the whole thing is considered odd.

[Aelwydd]

I realize that. My point was that this might have been the reason the HR mgr responded the way that they did and why your friend did not make a big deal of it.

 

She didn't make a big deal about it at the meeting, because it was awkward and she was not wanting to call more attention to herself.

 

She doesn't know whether to approach the HR manager or not about it, because she doesn't want to be looked upon as a troublesome employee. So, I doubt she will address the situation--she's too afraid of making waves.

 

I'm not surprised by that, but I'm disappointed that it won't be addressed. But, as a result of this, I'm left with my own feelings of helplessness and anger for Z. Which is again, the point of the thread--why I asked what I should do when working with the HR manager.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Isn't Z an adult? Can't she advocate for herself? Can't she decide in the future if she wants to bring her own stuff or if she needs to go to HR to resolve this? I would be confused and annoyed if someone tried to resolve something for me at my workplace as an adult. To me, the issue isn't whether or not the HR person was wrong or not but who should be talking to them about it to clear it up.

[angela in ohio]

While I understand why she wouldn't use the tongs on other non ham meat, I don't understand why she was unable to eat anything else. Were there no veggies on the table? No fruit? Nothing but meat? I mean, meat tongs wouldn't be used to pick up veggies or other things. It seems strange that all she could eat is chips that she brought herself.

 

I could see the HR person starting to worry that everyone would want their own individual meal made by the kitchen, and then things could get out of control. Who wouldn't want a fresh salad from the kitchen, made to their specific tastes, than something off of a lunch buffet? I would have had to have veggies and a drink, because I wouldn't eat lunch meat (sodium) or cheese (dairy allergy.) It's no big deal, though, because I can eat something else later.

 

That could get expensive, though, and I can see her not wanting to start a trend that way.

 

The thing about leadership is that people have to make decisions based on a lot of different information that not everyone else has, and so their decisions, biewed through our limited info, can look bad. Perhaps someone else has complained that they want individual ordered meals, too, or a few people, and she had to tell them no. Without asking the HR person, we just don't know.

 

I would encourage my friend to just ask the HR person why it happened, if it bothers her enough to do so.

[Aelwydd]

Actually, if you read Rebekah's prior comments, the norm is to honor requests. Refusing to honor a request is what is outside the norm, and why the whole thing is considered odd.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much, for pointing this out for me!

[Aelwydd]

Isn't Z an adult? Can't she advocate for herself? Can't she decide in the future if she wants to bring her own stuff or if she needs to go to HR to resolve this? I would be confused and annoyed if someone tried to resolve something for me at my workplace as an adult. To me, the issue isn't whether or not the HR person was wrong or not but who should be talking to them about it to clear it up.

 

 

Ok, I accept that you may find the fact that I'm offended on behalf of my friend, and want to know the best way to handle the situation.

 

I don't believe I have said anywhere that I intend to "resolve something" on behalf of my friend.

 

I really wish you would read everything I've said on this thread, because it's just insulting to be accused over and over of assuming things or doing things I haven't.

[Murphy101]

Your grandmother can harbor her distrust all she likes. She does not, however, have the right to inflict harm on others in a position of authority at a workplace.

 

Oh geez. Let's be real here. No harm was done to anyone. Your friend could have:

 

Made arrangements in advance (We don't know if she ever spoke to HR previously.)

Eat what was offered

Brought her own whatever (Which she did. Her own problem if all she thought of was a bag of chips.)

Or done without.

 

Personally, I think it was rude of the coworker to bring attention to what she was or was not eating. None of his business. None of your business. And unless she makes arrangements ahead of time with HR, then it isn't even HRs business.

[5of5]

Which is again, the point of the thread--why I asked what I should do when working with the HR manager.

 

If you are interested in approaching this in a non-confrontationally manner, you could ask the HR manager (or their boss) whether there is a now a new policy about not honoring such special requests. I assume that it is unlikely there is any such new policy, but it would put them on the spot for explaining the situation without actually attacking them.

[KatA]

So please help me :chillpill: and figure out a way to deal with this woman without showing how much I dislike her.

 

Okay, I really don't post much as you can tell by my post count, so I'm coming out of hiding for this thread.

 

The point of your thread was to vent. That's fine, vent away. You're offended, I'm sorry for that. But you express this on a forum where people have to read about what happened, take into account tone of voice on our own because we weren't there. And people disagree with you and this drags on for 9 pages?

 

I don't see the big deal. You asked for help to chill out, but we can't do that. You need to chill out on your own. Even if we all agreed with you, it would work you into a frenzy about how much you dislike this woman. And that definitely won't help you chill.

 

All this to say, stop arguing about it on a forum. We weren't there, you don't need to convince us.

[Mary in VA]

I know some people here don't get why this bothers me so much. It bothers me because if it had been me, I would have felt really...humiliated. Like I was getting punished in front of the group.

 

:iagree: I totally understand and would have felt the same way! And maybe I'm reading more into it than actually happened, but to take a bite of her sandwich while denying a plate for your friend makes the whole thing worse! I would be feeling the same way you do now, upset on behalf of your friend and that icky feeling about the HR manager.

 

Mary

[Murphy101]

Actually, if you read Rebekah's prior comments, the norm is to honor requests. Refusing to honor a request is what is outside the norm, and why the whole thing is considered odd.

 

Yeah well things change.

It could be that the company has decided that is no longer acceptable.

For that matter, it could be that the company never thought it was acceptable and HR has recently gotten into trouble for it.

[5of5]

I totally understand and would have felt the same way! And maybe I'm reading more into it than actually happened, but to take a bite of her sandwich while denying a plate for your friend makes the whole thing worse!

 

Mary

 

Yes, I wondered about taking a bite of the sandwich as well -- how quickly after the request was denied, done in slow, deliberate manner, or what.

[Aelwydd]

Oh geez. Let's be real here. No harm was done to anyone. Your friend could have:

 

Made arrangements in advance (We don't know if she ever spoke to HR previously.)

Eat what was offered

Brought her own whatever (Which she did. Her own problem if all she thought of was a bag of chips.)

Or done without.

 

I have said more than once that the way the manager treated her was hurtful to Z's feelings.

 

If you don't consider rude treatment and hurt feelings to be a form of emotional harm, then please consult a dictionary. Harm is harm, and it can take various forms. Also, please be aware that there is such a thing as a "hostile working environment." What the HR manager did constituted such.

 

Secondly, she didn't bring the chips. The bag of chips were, as I stated, part of the spread of food laid out.

 

Thirdly, I have already told another poster here Z did not consult or make arrangements with HR beforehand. I know this because she is my friend, and we talked about the incident afterward.

 

You were not there. I'm not asking for an insertion of your opinion about what happened, because I already know what happened. The question I asked was how to deal with it, not have people constantly ask the same questions 20 times in one thread.

 

 

Personally, I think it was rude of the coworker to bring attention to what she was or was not eating. None of his business. None of your business. And unless she makes arrangements ahead of time with HR, then it isn't even HRs business.

 

Maybe it was rude. I think it's pretty normal for people who are eating, and see someone else eating little or nothing, to inquire as to why not. I've done it many times, myself. "Aren't you going to eat? Are you feeling well?"

 

The answers I get usually range from, "I'm not really hungry" to "I ate earlier" to "I'm on a diet."

 

It's a question to express concern. But, maybe you and others see it as rudeness. In any case, again, not asking for opinions about whether the manager was rude, because I was there, and she was.

[Aelwydd]

Yeah well things change.

It could be that the company has decided that is no longer acceptable.

For that matter, it could be that the company never thought it was acceptable and HR has recently gotten into trouble for it.

 

Yes, and you know what the normal outcome of such changes is?

 

Memo to the employees. Which we didn't get.

 

Nor did the HR manager explain any such change to Z, or to the rest of us.

[mrs.m]

She didn't make a big deal about it at the meeting, because it was awkward and she was not wanting to call more attention to herself.

 

She doesn't know whether to approach the HR manager or not about it, because she doesn't want to be looked upon as a troublesome employee. So, I doubt she will address the situation--she's too afraid of making waves.

 

I'm not surprised by that, but I'm disappointed that it won't be addressed. But, as a result of this, I'm left with my own feelings of helplessness and anger for Z. Which is again, the point of the thread--why I asked what I should do when working with the HR manager.

 

If she wants to do something about it she needs to go to the HR manager's supervisor.

 

Your feelings are appropriate but taking action on them could backfire.

[LaxMom]

Yeah well things change.

It could be that the company has decided that is no longer acceptable.

For that matter, it could be that the company never thought it was acceptable and HR has recently gotten into trouble for it.

 

Then the HR manager could have indicated that, she's sorry but they're no longer allowed to do that...

 

I'm really trying to figure out why on earth you think "Z" came to a lunch meeting packing a bag of chips, and blame her for poor planning. I see no indication of that and would imagine she grabbed the bag of chips from the ubiquitous buffet table basket. Further, if it was my experience that I was able to eat at a particular restaurant (having eaten there before) and eat at lunch meetings (being an employee of this company that does lunch meetings), I would attend assuming - based on both experiences - that my lunch would be provided. This does not seem at all unreasonable.

 

Eta: Sorry, Rebekah, I have no insight as to how to proceed. Maybe ask the HR manager point blank if there is a new policy in place, since the entire staff seemed to miss the memo?

Edited October 6, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I really like the idea of asking if there had been a policy change for future knowledge. When they ask why you're asking, you can explain what happened.

[Aelwydd]

Okay, I really don't post much as you can tell by my post count, so I'm coming out of hiding for this thread.

 

The point of your thread was to vent. That's fine, vent away. You're offended, I'm sorry for that. But you express this on a forum where people have to read about what happened, take into account tone of voice on our own because we weren't there. And people disagree with you and this drags on for 9 pages?

 

I don't see the big deal. You asked for help to chill out, but we can't do that. You need to chill out on your own. Even if we all agreed with you, it would work you into a frenzy about how much you dislike this woman. And that definitely won't help you chill.

 

All this to say, stop arguing about it on a forum. We weren't there, you don't need to convince us.

 

 

You're right, and I came to check on my break.

 

You say that I don't need to convince anyone, but have you seen the number of posts here flatly denying what I've shared? I came for advice, but instead I'm being made to feel like I have to justify why I'm offended first, before anyone even accepts I have grounds to be upset.

 

If I asked for an interpretation of events, that'd be one thing. But I didn't. I just asked for advice in how to deal with workplace rudeness.

[Aelwydd]

Then the HR manager could have indicated that, she's sorry but they're no longer allowed to do that...

 

I'm really trying to figure out why on earth you think "Z" came to a lunch meeting packing a bag of chips, and blame her for poor planning. I see no indication of that and would imagine she grabbed the bag of chips from the ubiquitous buffet table basket. Further, if it was my experience that I was able to eat at a particular restaurant (having eaten there before) and eat at lunch meetings (being an employee of this company that does lunch meetings), I would attend assuming - based on both experiences - that my lunch would be provided. This does not seem at all unreasonable.

 

Thanks again, because having to say this and over was making me want to :banghead: