Why does school take so long for some people?

[I.Dup.]

I guess I am clearly doing something wrong.

 

I see some others with children around my children's ages (I have a 4th grader, a 1st grader and a couple preschoolers this year) saying they spend virtually all day doing school. How does this happen? We are doing CLE math with my 4th grader and Singapore math with my 1st grader. My 4th grader spends about 30-45 minutes on her math for the day, my 1st grader even less time than that. Then I have my 1st grader do handwriting (HWT), which takes him about 20 minutes. My 4th grader then will do her English, so another 30-40 minutes for that.

 

That's about one hour total for 2 subjects. :confused:

 

Those are the only 2 subjects we've been working on so far, we will start science this weekend and history will be random (I will have them listen to SOTW and we'll read books). But we wouldn't be doing science each day, anyway.

 

I do not feel that any other subjects, at their ages, are necessary or even useful (I think they'd forget most of the things they'd study). I guess we could do history every day but I don't think they'd remember most of it in a year. What am I doing wrong here?

[seraphina]

I am not sure about how it is with younger kids but my 12 year old does writing, grammar, spelling, algebra, social studies and science daily. We usually work for about 4 hours. Somedays take longer, some take less, but usually it's about 4 hours and we get a ton done. A lot more than he got done in public school. I think though some parents do more work than others and some children are difficult to get to focus.

[SailorMom]

Well - we did a lighter schedule in their younger years as well, but starting in 3rd the days got much longer. We did science and history everyday, and we started learning German (did that for about 2 years). We did art at least 3 days a week, and spent about an hour a day with me reading literature aloud to them. Add in lunch, cleaning up after projects and experiments, and the usual interuptions, and yeah - I can see how it can take at least a good part of the day...

Anyway - as for whether they get anything out of science and history - in my kids' case - absolutely. In fact - I am amazed at what my kids remember. In 4th we were already heavy into experiments and science projects.

[speedmom4]

Right now it takes us most of the day to finish school but that is because I have four school age children. My youngest is 9. My two boys are usually done by 2 o'clock or so. They have CLE English, AAS, TT for math, HOD for history, Handwriting without Tears, and Reading. They have some breaks during that time if I need to work independently with one. My older two take much longer but they have full loads plus musical instruments. Also I check over/grade their school work each day so my day ends up being pretty long.

 

I think at 4th grade it wouldn't hurt to add in History. I know they don't necessarily remember everything they have learned but I believe we are building a foundation for their future education. I believe it will make more sense when they are studying the Greeks in middle school or high school if they are familiar with some Greek mythology or stories about the Greeks. I think if my daughter, who read the Iliad and the Odyssey last year for 10th grade, had never been introduced to the Greeks before it would have been much more difficult.

 

That is just my opinion, though. I really enjoy the time we have read history books or done projects based on our history reading. My boys (for HOD) just did "cave paintings" since we are learning about the ice age. The assignment was to crumble up a paper bag and soak it in tea water. Then the next day they painted a mammoth and a bull. We had looked up cave paintings for another assignment the day before. They loved it and couldn't wait to show everyone what they accomplished. It also lead to some great discussions. I feel that adding history adds to the excitement of school. Math and English are pretty dull but History is where we get to do fun stuff!

 

Anyway, I think you are probably fine whether you add something or not.

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[chepyl]

I was time a good average is 1 hour for every year of school. First grade - one hour, second grade - two hours, etc. I do spelling, phones, math, grammar and handwriting with my first grade daily. We do science twice a week and history three times a week.

[I.Dup.]

Well - we did a lighter schedule in their younger years as well, but starting in 3rd the days got much longer. We did science and history everyday, and we started learning German (did that for about 2 years). We did art at least 3 days a week, and spent about an hour a day with me reading literature aloud to them. Add in lunch, cleaning up after projects and experiments, and the usual interuptions, and yeah - I can see how it can take at least a good part of the day...

Anyway - as for whether they get anything out of science and history - in my kids' case - absolutely. In fact - I am amazed at what my kids remember. In 4th we were already heavy into experiments and science projects.

 

Okay, this helps. Adding all of this in would take a lot of extra time, I guess I just felt it would be a waste since I didn't think they'd remember most of it. I barely remember ANYthing that I studied all throughout school in the lower grades (and even much of high school, where was I? lol) Maybe I am underestimating them.

[zenjenn]

I think you may be underestimating what your children are capable of learning. (BTW, I have a 1st grader and an older (just turned 9) 3rd grader, so we are in a similar situation.)

 

To some extent, I might agree with you about a 1st grader. A 1st grader is still learning so much through osmosis that formal instruction in other subjects might not strictly be necessary.

 

The 4th grader, however, can really benefit from other subjects, and if you're going to do it, might as well have it be a model for the younger one and do stuff along with big sister.

 

First of all, however limited an understanding is for academics like history and science still lays a *foundation* for learning greater depth later on. Doing history if my 1st grader only comes away some rudimentary concepts internalized such as what history is and how it is studied, map directions, continent names, what BC/BCE vs. AD/CE is, and some basic vocabulary associated with ancient civilizations, I'll be more than happy.

 

In the process of studying history and science both my kids receive additional practice with oral and written language, reading, and projects, critical thinking skills, formulating coherent thoughts, problem-solving, observation, coordination, etc.

 

My main question to you would be, what are your kids doing the rest of the day? How is that time being spent? The answer to that question should help you determine whether or not you should be including more formal instruction, IMO. If they are reading, writing, drawing, cooking, practicing music, learning crafts, playing outside, I might remain comfortable with your limited instruction, especially for the 1st grader. If they watching TV and playing video games, not so much. One of the reasons I included more instruction this year was for my 3rd grader was because of a re-evaluation of how time is spent. Last year I was content to let her spend hours reading. The fact that it was just silly fairy novels was irrelevant, because she REALLY needed reading practice. This year, her reading is very proficient, and I do not think 3-4 hours a day reading fairy novels is a productive use of her time. I've included her 1st grade sister into the mix because if left to her own devices she will either play computer games all day or complain that she's bored - but at the same time the dot-to-dots and scissor skills activities I gave her last year are really not interesting or beneficial to her.

Edited September 9, 2011 by zenjenn

[twoxcell]

We spend a lot of time on school because we choose to cover a variety of topics daily. I mix things up throughout the day so we aren't doing seat work the whole time. My kids remember much of what we learned year to year. At 9 years old I can't imagine that they would forget everything anyways. In fact I remember a ton from when I was 9.

[Melissa B]

I think if those are the only four subjects you want to do then your times are reasonable and that is likely as long as it takes most families for those four subjects. The rest of the time comes from additional classes other families choose to add.

 

 

For my second grader:

 

Math (1 hr daily)

English (30 min daily)

History/Science (30 min daily)

 

but I also add:

 

Latin (1.5 hrs daily)

Geography (30 min daily)

Religion (30 min daily)

Writing/Art/Music (30 min daily)

Required Reading (20-30 min daily)

 

 

so my 2 hours quickly becomes 5.5 hours :D

[Elizabeth in WA]

I ramp up substantially in about 4th grade, increasing math time to ~1hour daily, and expecting over an hour daily of combined language arts plus daily history, science, and Latin. My youngest is adjusting to this ramp up right now, some days better than others. Last year she had less than two hours total school per day, but is at between 4 and 5 hours this year and is expected to make up on weekends like her brothers instead of sliding the schedule back as she did last year. I do this in part because I see 4th as upper elementary and K-3 as primary school, but also because we 'moved up' to another building and higher expectations in my elementary school at 4th grade as well. We hit another major ramp up in 7th (my elementary ended at 6th and we were all busy that year taking SSATs and applying to jr/sr high schools) and then fairly smoothly slide into high school.

[I.Dup.]

That is just my opinion, though. I really enjoy the time we have read history books or done projects based on our history reading. My boys (for HOD) just did "cave paintings" since we are learning about the ice age. The assignment was to crumble up a paper bag and soak it in tea water. Then the next day they painted a mammoth and a bull. We had looked up cave paintings for another assignment the day before. They loved it and couldn't wait to show everyone what they accomplished. It also lead to some great discussions. I feel that adding history adds to the excitement of school. Math and English are pretty dull but History is where we get to do fun stuff!

 

Anyway, I think you are probably fine whether you add something or not.

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

 

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense, we've done fun history projects in the past and I'm sure they'd enjoy doing things like that more often.

 

First of all, however limited an understanding is for academics like history and science still lays a *foundation* for learning greater depth later on. Doing history if my 1st grader only comes away some rudimentary concepts internalized such as what history is and how it is studied, map directions, continent names, what BC/BCE vs. AD/CE is, and some basic vocabulary associated with ancient civilizations, I'll be more than happy.

 

Yes, this is a good point. I think I need to re-read WTM. :001_smile:

 

 

My main question to you would be, what are your kids doing the rest of the day? How is that time being spent? The answer to that question should help you determine whether or not you should be including more formal instruction, IMO. If they are reading, writing, drawing, cooking, practicing music, learning crafts, playing outside, I might remain comfortable with your limited instruction, especially for the 1st grader. If they watching TV and playing video games, not so much. One of the reasons I included more instruction this year was for my 3rd grader was because of a re-evaluation of how time is spent. Last year I was content to let her spend hours reading. The fact that it was just silly fairy novels was irrelevant, because she REALLY needed reading practice. This year, her reading is very proficient, and I do not think 3-4 hours a day reading fairy novels is a productive use of her time.

 

Yes, I see what you mean and I do think I could make better use of their time. They spend a LOT of time just playing, most of the time playing with eachother but during nap time I let them play video games. A lot of this I've excused away because I just had a baby 3 weeks ago but I can see how it would be beneficial to add in more intensive projects and more variety.

[momma2three]

I think you're probably underestimating your 4th grader ;) I still remember a lot of stuff I learned in early elementary school. I still remember the poem I had to memorize in 3rd grade, even! And even stuff I don't specifically remember still builds the foundation for things I learned later.

[Lily_Grace]

I guess school can take as long or as short as you need it to or your philosophy dictates.

 

In our house, school can take all day. We can easily spend 3-4 hours on science or history if we feel like it. There was one day where ds spent a good afternoon on a language arts project that included an elaborate timeline. But I have a kid who learns best hands on, and does best when he's exposed to most subjects every day. The more immersed he is, the better he retains the information. A 15 minute worksheet or just reading the material doesn't educate him to a satisfactory level.

[Ria]

 

 

Those are the only 2 subjects we've been working on so far, we will start science this weekend and history will be random (I will have them listen to SOTW and we'll read books). But we wouldn't be doing science each day, anyway.

 

I do not feel that any other subjects, at their ages, are necessary or even useful (I think they'd forget most of the things they'd study). I guess we could do history every day but I don't think they'd remember most of it in a year. What am I doing wrong here?

 

I totally disagree with your take on science and history. I do believe they are very necessary. History every day for sure, and science 3-4 times a week. It seems to me you are missing the point - in the grammar stage you are supposed to lay a strong foundation, not strive for mastery. It doesn't matter what they remember after a year....the beginning of the foundation will have been laid. It's all about learning, not "studying" at this age;, and there's so much you can do with those subjects! Have you read TWTM?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes, I see what you mean and I do think I could make better use of their time. They spend a LOT of time just playing, most of the time playing with eachother but during nap time I let them play video games. A lot of this I've excused away because I just had a baby 3 weeks ago but I can see how it would be beneficial to add in more intensive projects and more variety.

 

Over the years we've gotten a lot of benefit out of audio books. Jim Weiss is a favorite at our house, but unabridged Winnie the Pooh, Little Bear stories (read by Sigorney Weaver), and Odds Bodkin stories have all been popular. Classical Kids composers stories with music were also nice. My kids listen to these while playing with legos or Playmobil. Often the stories become part of the play.

 

I don't think that 4th grade or 1st grade is too early to introduce history or science. Even if they forget most of it, it develops a skill of curiosity and awareness of the largeness of the universe and time.

 

I spend 3-4 hours on schooling my 4th grader, including the time he is reading for school.

[Jenny in Florida]

I think you may be underestimating what your children are capable of learning.

 

Me, too.

 

Let's see, a 4th grader would be nine or 10 years old, right?

 

When my son was that age, his list of subjects included:

 

- Ancient History and Literature

- Grammar and Composition

- Algebra

- Science

- Geography (Florida Virtual School middle school course)

- Art (FLVS middle school course)

- Spanish

- Greek

 

Even if he spent as little as 30 minutes on each subject, he would be busy for four hours. And for some of them, he spent significantly more.

[Lady Florida.]

It takes ds about 4 hours and he's an 8th grader this year. Some days are shorter, some are longer (especially science experiment days). We follow a college style schedule and don't do every subject every day. Part of what I like about homeschooling is that the typical school distractions aren't there, so you can get done faster. I do know people whose children do school all day, and that's fine for them. I've never been one to compare our homeschool with others though. I know I'm unusual in that I truly don't care about what others are doing. If you feel they are meeting the goals you set, I wouldn't worry about how long it takes to meet them - just be sure they are being met.

 

*I should also point out that I only have one child. I can't compare our school day to that of a friend who has 4 school age children. Every family is different and every homeschool is different.

 

 

I was time a good average is 1 hour for every year of school. First grade - one hour, second grade - two hours, etc.

 

:confused: But if that is followed a senior in high school would be doing school for 12 hours a day.

[momma2three]

Are you spending any time doing art or music or a foreign language?

 

If you use that nap time as your rest period, you might want to look into educational DVDs at your library, or streaming online. If you search Discovery Education here, there is a terrific deal on DIscovery Education and BrainPop through an online forum called G3. You can set him up with something educational during that time.

 

I think you're amazing for doing ANYTHING if you just had a baby 3 weeks ago! Especially with a toddler and 2 preschoolers at home, too.

[Mama_Rana]

I don't know about other states, but my state requires that I cover certain subjects every year. It doesn't say I have to teach every subject every day [though they do make recommendations], but I HAVE to teach: Language Arts, math, science, social studies, art/music/PE, & health. I don't have a strict schedule of what we do each day, though I do try to hit reading and math every day, and since my son LOVES science & history so much I do incorporate a lot of that as much as possible either a reading or a project every day or more.

 

Today we spent less than 2 hours on school. We did phonics/spelling, math, and writing, and he read a book and recorded it in his log. Other days are more. Though part of our "issue" is my toddler who breaks up our day in his own unique way ;)

 

DS would play Lego Star Wars all day if I let him. He drove me crazy this summer since we weren't following our "school routine".

 

Good luck!

[gardenmom5]

I do not feel that any other subjects, at their ages, are necessary or even useful (I think they'd forget most of the things they'd study). I guess we could do history every day but I don't think they'd remember most of it in a year. ?

 

It's not the amount of time, but how you use it. some kids just take more time to absorb the lessons, others are much faster. Even for little one, it varies how much time we spend daily on the lessons from the same subject. depends upon how well he's "getting" it.

 

It's not the expectation they remember things, but that they get exposure so the next time they get expsoure to a subject they'll retain a little bit more. SWB talked about it being like pieces on a tapestry and the more threads are exposed, the more you can see how things are related. (I explained that poorly, sorry.)

 

we're doing a core of math/phonics/history and associated "historical" science. I'd like to get back to our full science curriculum (haven't had time, and I'm thinking of having 2dd teach to him in the meantime. Hey, she has time to tutor 'her favorite students'. . . . of course, they're paying her too. the girl does. not. sleep.) We also do field trips every week.

 

I'd like for him to be doing formal art at least once a week, but that will have to wait. In the meantime, I have an art easel and he can paint, or he can do playdough. it's not formal, but it's basic exposure. there are also art projects in some chapters that we do for the AG guide/history. I've had him in piano, but he's not developmentally ready. He does swimming 2X a week - which is "PE". (and therapy. yeah, two birds with one stone. ;P)

[momma2three]

I totally disagree with your take on science and history. I do believe they are very necessary. History every day for sure, and science 3-4 times a week. It seems to me you are missing the point - in the grammar stage you are supposed to lay a strong foundation, not strive for mastery. It doesn't matter what they remember after a year....the beginning of the foundation will have been laid. It's all about learning, not "studying" at this age;, and there's so much you can do with those subjects! Have you read TWTM?

 

Especially since those subjects are so much FUN in the elementary years! LOL, I can't wait until we get there. There are so many great history books for elementary school, all the science projects are really fun... it's all just about the world being an amazing place. As they get older and things get more intensive, we might develop a deeper understanding, but I think a lot of the sense of magic and wonder is lost in that.

[jujsky]

For 2 third graders we do the following daily:

 

Grammar

HWT

Latin

Literature

Math

Spelling

 

3X/Week: History

 

2X/Week:

Science

Music

Art

 

I also have one child who fights me on math, spelling, and handwriting so it often takes him 2-3 times longer to do those subjects than it takes my other child. We do 5 days worth of school work/week, but we don't do school on Thursdays (co-op) so we fit the work from that day into the rest of the week, doubling up on math one day, literature another, etc. With all that, it definitely takes us a full day to do school most of the time.

[ChristusG]

You must be blessed with a first grader who doesn't dawdle. My 7 year old DD can drag 2 math sheets out for half an hour or more (if she just sat there and did them, she could be finished in 10 minutes). And that's only math....she managed to do every subject like this. Plus, I give breaks throughout our school work too.

[Ria]

As they get older and things get more intensive, we might develop a deeper understanding, but I think a lot of the sense of magic and wonder is lost in that.

 

Exactly!! The fun starts in elementary, and the deeper understanding builds on that later.

 

My boys are older and in high school now, but one of them just said to me that he's one of the few kids he knows who has a broad understanding of the flow of western history and also of the various aspects of science. And, bless his heart, he gives me the credit for his AP biology score (he got a 5!). He says homeschooling laid the foundation for his future learning. :001_smile:

[Paige]

It takes us so long because my kids are slow! They spend so much time getting distracted and side tracked that it adds up to a very long day sometimes. Also, even if we only do a few subjects, we might use several resources for each subject. Some things require me to directly teach which takes longer, and sometimes he is just waiting for his turn for my help while I am with his sisters.

 

My 4th grader's typical Monday, which is a rather light day looks like this:

-Yoga (10-25min depending on what we choose)

-Handwriting (2 quotes of about 1-2 sentences each)

-Spelling (1 workbook page)

-Vocabulary

-Poem of the Day

-Grammar- MCT, so it varies but averages about 15min

-Greek- about 1 page

-Writing- varies

-Reading Comprehension (2 passages to read and answer questions)

-Punctuation and Capitalization workbook (2 lessons)

-Math (2 pages)

-Spanish (30min)

-Quiet reading time- min 1 hr

 

We do other things different days, but this will take him about 4hrs, not including the quiet reading. It should only take about 2.5-3hrs but he doesn't just sit and work straight through.

[I.Dup.]

It's all about learning, not "studying" at this age;, and there's so much you can do with those subjects! Have you read TWTM?

 

Yes I have! But it certainly seems like it is time to re-read it! :tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you all. This helps a lot. I think I've really been underestimating them and myself. I think spending most of the day learning is a great way to spend time, I just need to get more structured about it and maybe reform my educational philosophy. I do think it is time to ramp things up a bit, I just wasn't exactly sure how to get there. This gives me a better idea.

[Ria]

Yes I have! But it certainly seems like it is time to re-read it! :tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you all. This helps a lot. I think I've really been underestimating them and myself. I think spending most of the day learning is a great way to spend time, I just need to get more structured about it and maybe reform my educational philosophy. I do think it is time to ramp things up a bit, I just wasn't exactly sure how to get there. This gives me a better idea.

 

If it helps any, I did lots of reading aloud when my kids were that age. In addition to SOTW I would find historical fiction that pertained to the time period we were studying, and I'd read at least 30-45 minutes daily. It was magical, really. :)

 

ETA: I also assigned historical fiction reading in 4th grade; usually at least 30 minutes worth, and I'd assign projects pertaining to the reading, require writing assignments, etc. In addition, we did geography, foreign language, art, music.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Ria

[Parrothead]

What about spelling, reading/literature, geography?

 

I have an 11-year old (almost 12) 7th grader doing all the stuff in my sig line throughout the week. Not everything every day. Plus guitar, tai chi and soon 3 dance classes.

 

I get that you have your hands full with a lot of preschoolers, but I think you might want to consider ramping up the work you oldest does. An NT 4th grader is capable of quite a bit more than you are having her do.

[Mrs Mungo]

First grade here includes:

Math

First language lessons

Handwriting

Spelling Workout

SOTW

science (as described in TWTM)

Readin with mom

 

Fourth grade includes:

Math

Spelling Workout

Analytical Grammar Jr

Handwriting

SOTW

Science

Latin

Structured reading

Fun reading

Eta: WWE

Edited September 9, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Pamela H in Texas]

Kristi,

 

You aren't doing anything "wrong," but a lot of people do considerably more. Have you read the WTM? I did 1st grade two years ago with a friend's son. We did school from 8 to 2. He needed more structure so this was good for him. I'd probably cut 1/3 of it for many kids, finishing by lunch time. It also included two full math programs and a supplement. It included two phonics program plus my own homemade supplement. Then we did WWE and FFL. We did the WTM including Latin, Science, History, and "thinking skills." He did a music program and art (both doing it as well as art history and art appreciation). We also did the Presidential Challenge for P.E. BTW, I sent homework home also and his mom read with him each evening.

 

So you choose to do less. It may be GREAT for y'all. Other people aren't wrong either though. They just enjoy a fun academic filled day :)

 

Anyway,

[Carrie12345]

My second and third graders would mutiny if I took out Science and/or History. Those are their favorites, and now we've added Spanish, at their request. I turned them down on that last year, so it's something new for us to fit in.

 

Music and Art are mostly weekend things for us.

 

I split Language Arts into MCT, Literature, WWE, and Spelling, MCT and WWE M/W/F and Lit and Spelling T/Th. Plus Math every day.

 

That's the path I find best for my educational goals.

The girls are mostly done by lunch, though we often save History or Lit for later in the day.

[I.Dup.]

What about spelling, reading/literature, geography?

 

 

 

She is an excellent speller so I haven't found spelling outside of our LA curriculum needed at this point. She reads voraciously, many grades ahead of where she is so I also don't use anything other than good books for that. Geography we do geo puzzles and what we learn about in SOTW.

 

I agree that I'm sure she is capable of much more than what I have been requiring her to do. I've been a bit lost the past 2-3 years (we've had 3 babies in that time, not to use that as an excuse to not ever do more formal schooling, but I lost my footing a bit) but even with that, they've learned and progressed a ton. My 4th grader's standardized test scores have shown that over the past 2 years, even despite my areas of weakness. My 1st grader does not dawdle, whereas my 4th grader does, particularly with math.

 

This has given me the kick in the pants I've needed to get things more structured, thank you all!

[Parrothead]

She is an excellent speller so I haven't found spelling outside of our LA curriculum needed at this point. She reads voraciously, many grades ahead of where she is so I also don't use anything other than good books for that. Geography we do geo puzzles and what we learn about in SOTW.

 

I agree that I'm sure she is capable of much more than what I have been requiring her to do. I've been a bit lost the past 2-3 years (we've had 3 babies in that time, not to use that as an excuse to not ever do more formal schooling, but I lost my footing a bit) but even with that, they've learned and progressed a ton. My 4th grader's standardized test scores have shown that over the past 2 years, even despite my areas of weakness. My 1st grader does not dawdle, whereas my 4th grader does, particularly with math.

 

This has given me the kick in the pants I've needed to get things more structured, thank you all!

Hey, 3 babies in 3 years is pretty much a guarantee of different priorities.

 

Were it me, and I can only imagine since I've only one kiddo, and you have math, reading, spelling, grammar, and handwriting covered - consider adding writing of some type. Writing With Ease comes to mind. I don't know that I'd recommend Classical Writing to you at this time because it is teacher intensive. There are a few others that are very good. Ask over at the curriculum board.

 

Then when your dd starts middle school, start history and science. Build on those throughout middle school. You'll have everything covered that way.

[alpidarkomama]

I do not feel that any other subjects, at their ages, are necessary or even useful (I think they'd forget most of the things they'd study). I guess we could do history every day but I don't think they'd remember most of it in a year. What am I doing wrong here?

 

History/science are definitely optional at this age, but they really DO remember quite a lot (and we also happen to have a blast doing both subjects)! My DD8 (and the rest of us!) are doing SOTW3, and they all remember things from SOTW1 pretty clearly.

 

You're not doing anything wrong at all! You've chosen a lighter schedule and fewer subjects. Some people include art, nature walks, etc. in their learning time too. We have a dual curriculum (Jewish/secular), so I think we have something like 12 subjects, three kids in K+, so it takes us 10:00-4:00 every day, with a half day on Fridays. But the lessons are short, and noone feels overwhelmed (except maybe me on occasion!).

[zenjenn]

Yes, I see what you mean and I do think I could make better use of their time. They spend a LOT of time just playing, most of the time playing with eachother but during nap time I let them play video games. A lot of this I've excused away because I just had a baby 3 weeks ago but I can see how it would be beneficial to add in more intensive projects and more variety.

 

I can see how this would be very difficult with a newborn. But also remember that providing some structure does not necessarily mean what they are doing needs to be teacher-intensive. For example:

 

- The SotW activity guide is fantastic. You read the story of Jospeh and discuss it with them. That takes maybe 15-20 minutes. They can do the student pages (word search, Joseph coloring book). That's an hour and you don't need to be directly involved. Another day you can take a suggestion from the AG - get an old shirt and give them some fabric paint and let them go to town making Joseph's coat. It is the same time they would have spent randomly playing, except now they are getting experience with art materials, and internalizing a story that is deep in the lexicon of the human experience (and your religion, if you are religious.)

 

- Science.. we use Real Science 4 Kids and lab books. One day, we read from the book and discuss the topics. I just get out the materials for the experiment and give them their lab books, and let them go to town running the experiment and drawing and writing down observations according to their level of skill. Again, same time that would have been spent randomly playing is spent making observations and linking that to what has been learned. They have fun doing it.

 

- Library books. Get TONS. Fiction, non-fiction. If it is integrated into your science and/or history studies, even better. Do additional read-alouds - AWESOME benefit for your kids, and this is something you can do while feeding the baby.

 

The difficult part is setting down the expectations (higher for the 4th grader, more lenient for the 1st grader, probably) and making it clear that you expect a sincere effort and a good attitude. And then.. letting go.. accepting that it won't be perfect, that messes will be made. They can clean it up, too. :D Really I do believe most elementary kids enjoy AND PREFER independent learning when they can get away with it, and it is good for them too, so you can rest assured that aside from core academics (when you need to be on the ball making sure the fundamentals are correct) you can really "let go" and not have it be super-intensive on your time.

 

Also if there are offerings in your area, see about enrolling the kids in some home school classes? Around here there are options for art, science, history, and PE. Most are just once or twice a month, and the classes may or may not be related to anything learned at home, but it is a nice break, and gives them additional instruction outside the home. Nice ESPECIALLY since you have a newborn.

Edited September 9, 2011 by zenjenn

[I.Dup.]

I can see how this would be very difficult with a newborn. But also remember that providing some structure does not necessarily mean what they are doing needs to be teacher-intensive. For example:

 

- The SotW activity guide is fantastic. You read the story of Jospeh and discuss it with them. That takes maybe 15-20 minutes. They can do the student pages (word search, Joseph coloring book). That's an hour and you don't need to be directly involved. Another day you can take a suggestion from the AG - get an old shirt and give them some fabric paint and let them go to town making Joseph's coat. It is the same time they would have spent randomly playing, except now they are getting experience with art materials, and internalizing a story that is deep in the lexicon of the human experience (and your religion, if you are religious.)

 

- Science.. we use Real Science 4 Kids and lab books. One day, we read from the book and discuss the topics. I just get out the materials for the experiment and give them their lab books, and let them go to town running the experiment and drawing and writing down observations according to their level of skill. Again, same time that would have been spent randomly playing is spent making observations and linking that to what has been learned. They have fun doing it.

 

- Library books. Get TONS. Fiction, non-fiction. If it is integrated into your science and/or history studies, even better. Do additional read-alouds - AWESOME benefit for your kids, and this is something you can do while feeding the baby.

 

The difficult part is setting down the expectations (higher for the 4th grader, more lenient for the 1st grader, probably) and making it clear that you expect a sincere effort and a good attitude. And then.. letting go.. accepting that it won't be perfect, that messes will be made. They can clean it up, too. :D Really I do believe most elementary kids enjoy AND PREFER independent learning when they can get away with it, and it is good for them too, so you can rest assured that aside from core academics (when you need to be on the ball making sure the fundamentals are correct) you can really "let go" and not have it be super-intensive on your time.

 

 

Hey these are great ideas! I am not good at "letting go" because I am (ahem) a bit of a control freak/perfectionist but I am quickly learning that I cannot do it all!! I think they would have a blast doing things as you described. We just ordered NOEO science and dd is begging to dive into it (it just got here) but honestly I've been feeling a tiny bit of dread because I've been expecting to need to go to the grocery store and the craft store for all of the random supplies and hover over them the whole time but the way you described sounds really great.

[Lily_Grace]

We just ordered NOEO science and dd is begging to dive into it (it just got here) but honestly I've been feeling a tiny bit of dread because I've been expecting to need to go to the grocery store and the craft store for all of the random supplies and hover over them the whole time but the way you described sounds really great.

 

Did you order the science kits with it? Trust me, there's very little extra you will need that isn't prepackaged. The great thing about Noeo is all the little extras you *can* but don't have to do. I made a folder for my son in our Favorites and put the links to the Noeo books in there so when he was done reading the page or two, he could quickly go to that Usborne book online, type in the page number, and play a few games to reinforce the lesson before writing/sketching his summary. I don't make copies for any pages except the lab sheets, having him work with plain paper or standard loose leaf instead.

The *only* thing Bio II requires from you extra is copying the pages from The Body Book.

[I.Dup.]

Did you order the science kits with it? Trust me, there's very little extra you will need that isn't prepackaged. The great thing about Noeo is all the little extras you *can* but don't have to do. I made a folder for my son in our Favorites and put the links to the Noeo books in there so when he was done reading the page or two, he could quickly go to that Usborne book online, type in the page number, and play a few games to reinforce the lesson before writing/sketching his summary. I don't make copies for any pages except the lab sheets, having him work with plain paper or standard loose leaf instead.

The *only* thing Bio II requires from you extra is copying the pages from The Body Book.

 

Yes, we ordered the kits as well. Thank you, this is encouraging! We will dive into it this weekend. ;)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

MY homeschool support and previous cyber schools had us do the following:

Math 1 hour daily

Language Arts 2 hours daily which includes spelling, grammar, reading, vocabulary, writing

History 4 times a week for 45 minutes to an hour

Geography for about 45 minutes once a week

Science 4 times a week for about 45 minutes

Art/Music 1-2 times per week

Foreign Language 3 times a week for about 30 to 45 minutes

 

My ds is in 4th grade.

[ShutterBug]

I have a 4th grader here as well :).

 

Honestly, I do feel that a half an hour of math and a half an hour of english is a very light schedule for a 4th grader.

 

We average 4 - 5 hours per day, depending on the day and activities planned.

 

We don't do everything, everyday so we're able to rotate some things. I've trimmed some things up, but I really can't imagine what else I could cut/shorten and still provide the level of education I'd like ds to receive. Here is how our day breaks down.....

 

Math (1 hour, 5x per week)

 

Bible (1/2 hour, 5x per week)

 

Reading *a combo. of classics and historical fiction* (1 hour, 5x per week)

 

Grammar (1/2 hour, 4x per week)

 

Penmanship (1/2 hour, 2x per week)

 

Spelling (15 min., 3x per week)

 

Writing (1/2 hour, 4x per week)

 

History Reading (CHOW)/Narration (1/2 hour, 3x per week)

 

Geography (1/2 hour, 2x per week)

 

Science (1/2 hour, 2x per week)

 

Art (1/2 - 1 hour, 1x per week)

 

Logic (20 min., 2x per week)

 

~Jenn

[sassenach]

I guess the short answer is that those who take longer, do more.

 

Math and LA take us about 1 1/2 hour for 2 kids, not including silent reading. If you toss in bible, science, history and assigned reading, we're at 3-4 hours (4 days a week). If we added the things I want to do, but haven't started yet (music, foreign language, typing), we'd probably have another hour.

 

So, for myself, if I chose to only do math and LA, our day would look like yours. But I don't, so it doesn't.

[WeeBeaks]

We do those 2 subjects similar to you (takes 1-2 hours) but also do history and science daily, and my 4th grader does Spanish. Those add another 2 hours most days. And sometimes everyone is just in a grumpy mood and it literally takes all day.

[WeeBeaks]

I

My main question to you would be, what are your kids doing the rest of the day? How is that time being spent? The answer to that question should help you determine whether or not you should be including more formal instruction, IMO. If they are reading, writing, drawing, cooking, practicing music, learning crafts, playing outside, I might remain comfortable with your limited instruction, especially for the 1st grader. If they watching TV and playing video games, not so much. One of the reasons I included more instruction this year was for my 3rd grader was because of a re-evaluation of how time is spent. Last year I was content to let her spend hours reading. The fact that it was just silly fairy novels was irrelevant, because she REALLY needed reading practice. This year, her reading is very proficient, and I do not think 3-4 hours a day reading fairy novels is a productive use of her time. I've included her 1st grade sister into the mix because if left to her own devices she will either play computer games all day or complain that she's bored - but at the same time the dot-to-dots and scissor skills activities I gave her last year are really not interesting or beneficial to her.

 

I so agree with this I had to quote it and say so. :D

 

My 4th grader may not remember every detail of his 1st-3rd grade years, but he really does remember a lot, and has gained a decent foundation in basic scientific method for science, and lots of random facts too, and has a great framework for history if not every detail remembered. He can recall more than I thought he would though about the ancients, even though we are now heading into modern.

[Cassy]

Thanks for this thread Blessedwinter, I'm really enjoying it. It's very, very helpful seeing what everyone does, and I'm loving how supportive and helpful everyone's being.

 

Cassy

[beaners]

What about spelling, reading/literature, geography?

 

I have an 11-year old (almost 12) 7th grader doing all the stuff in my sig line throughout the week. Not everything every day. Plus guitar, tai chi and soon 3 dance classes.

 

I get that you have your hands full with a lot of preschoolers, but I think you might want to consider ramping up the work you oldest does. An NT 4th grader is capable of quite a bit more than you are having her do.

 

Neurotypical, for anyone else who stumbled on this one. (I kept thinking it was just a subset of that Myers-Briggs thing.)

[unsinkable]

I think there is a balance between the bare minimum of math and reading and the overkill of every subject with multiple programs for each subject.

 

One thing that might interest you in making a theme basket of books for your kids to choose from during these weeks with a newborn. Go to the library and get a dozen or so books about the Egyptians or the Middle Ages or the Presidents, etc. Then they can read for a set length of time and afterward either draw a picture and caption it or write a few sentences about it. After a few weeks, you can bind their work together to make a book.

 

HTH!

 

:grouphug:

[leeannpal]

I totally disagree with your take on science and history. I do believe they are very necessary. History every day for sure, and science 3-4 times a week. It seems to me you are missing the point - in the grammar stage you are supposed to lay a strong foundation, not strive for mastery. It doesn't matter what they remember after a year....the beginning of the foundation will have been laid. It's all about learning, not "studying" at this age;, and there's so much you can do with those subjects! Have you read TWTM?

I agree. Most knowledge is formed by connections to prior knowledge. Most kids are capable of remembering and connecting their knowledge to new information.

[Jane Elliot]

History every day for sure, and science 3-4 times a week.... Have you read TWTM?

 

TWTM only has science scheduled 2 times a week and history 2-3 times a week in the grammar stage, and the "Priorities" sections in both Ch. 3 and 8 emphasize that science and history should not eclipse language arts and math in the grammar stage.

 

The OP has at least placed the correct subjects in priority position. I agree it would be good to add more, but she DID just have a baby. It would be beneficial to ease into it. Maybe just start with having the kids reading while you're resting instead of doing video games.

[chepyl]

As far as remembering from year to year, it depends on how you teach. We spent 3 months on geography of the continents. He has great recall of that a year later. We have spent the first 6 weeks on history in the fertils crescent and Egypt. He knows the Mediteranean Sea, Tigers and Euphrates and the Nile rivers, mesopotamia, King Narmer, Sargon, and much more. He can tell you a story about Egypt and Mesopotamia. We do a lapbook section for each chapter of SOTW and CC memory work. He remembers what we learned in week one because we review constantly and we listen to SOTW regularly.

 

You will be suprised what a 5-6 year old can memorize.

[I.Dup.]

TWTM only has science scheduled 2 times a week and history 2-3 times a week in the grammar stage, and the "Priorities" sections in both Ch. 3 and 8 emphasize that science and history should not eclipse language arts and math in the grammar stage.

 

The OP has at least placed the correct subjects in priority position. I agree it would be good to add more, but she DID just have a baby. It would be beneficial to ease into it. Maybe just start with having the kids reading while you're resting instead of doing video games.

 

Thank you for being understanding.