LauraGB Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I need natural consequences for a 12 year old who constantly complains about every cotton pickin', stinkin' thing from the time his eyes pop open in the morning until they close in the evening. And I need them now. He's not so much a whiner as just a contrary complainer. If requested to do something, he'll come up with 50 reasons why he shouldn't, why someone else should do it, and then that will launch a complaint fest about that someone else (regardless of who it may be and having nothing to do with the original request). If told (instead of requested) to get something done, he'll complain and only end up doing half of what he was supposed to do. When called on for not doing said thing, he'll complain for ever about how he "did" do it, even though it will clearly be "not done". And so on throughout the entire day. I'm gonna lose it. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 :bigear: I have one like that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestar Academy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 :bigear: I got one here, too. I was baking with her and her friend, BAKING. did i say BAKING?? and when told the two girls needed to load the dishwasher with the bowls and mixing spoons, I got a ,"geesh, mom." i lost it. robin in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HayesW Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Silence. Do the job without complaining or arguing. Do it silently. If you can't unload the dishwasher without complaining, then you cna unload the dishwasher AND fold the laundry. OR Tell him to do the job, then he may WRITE a list of reasons why the job is unfair/unkind/mean, etc. etc. I hate the contrary attitude too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I could have written your post. My dh is on the phone right now chewing out our 12yo for his attitude. I wish I had advice for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I worry about my future. I have an almost 4 year old who does this. Yesterday, we stopped at Sonic on the way home and when I got him out of the car I told him he needed to carry his own drink. You would not believe the whining that ensued "Why do I have to do EVERYthing?" I hope he and I survive to see his teen years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I punish for it-like was mentioned earlier, I add on more work. If it's just mindless complaining I'll warn them to change the tune and if they don't, I call them out on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Well, I don't know..could you try something like just cancel everything and spend a day or so on showing, explaining ad nausea on cooperative behavior and positive speech? Set up some sort of reward/demerit system after they express fully that they KNOW the behaviors and speech that go with cooperation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K&Rs Mom Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 If the complaint is about a chore, I add more work. If it's about something totally stupid (got the wrong color plate at dinner), I make them tell me something they're thankful for (or maybe 5 things, when they REALLY need the practice). If it's poorly done work, I make them do it again until it's right. My goal is to replace that behavior with something more desirable, so I try to think of what I'd rather have them do, instead of just punishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Mine isn't quite that old but if he were to do that, I'd say nothing and escort him to his room. Prior to the complaining episode I would explain that if he is going to be a complainer then he is welcome to stay in his room and that he is also welcome to rejoin the household when he can be polite and respectful. Oh! And I have also learned recently that when I mimic his bad behaviors he sees how bad it looks and immediately stops. This works with all sorts of things! I think sometimes they have no idea how they look to other people but once they see it on mom, trust me, they do not want to do it again. The look of horror on his face is priceless. "I look like THAT when I act like that???" :lol: Edited August 31, 2011 by Sputterduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 My complainer is 7. So you mean it doesn't get any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Have you considered a reward for not complaining? I have a complainer, and everyone who does their chores and schoolwork without complaining, disobeying, or being distracting on purpose gets to go somewhere fun on Friday. Only the kids that are successful that week get to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) I don't know if your ds is too old for this book but the message is fantastic. My dd has some grumbling tendencies which turned into a habit, which led to my habit of grumbling back, and so on and so on... This whole series of books is wonderful. What to Do When You Grumble Too Much: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Negativity Aside from using this book, we went to a reward system for positivity. I got a quart size Ball jar and every time she did something without grumbling or otherwise behaved in a positive way, I gave her marble-size gems to put in the jar. When the jar is full, she is able to choose a "big-deal" reward (indoor rock climbing, bowling, going to the waterpark, etc.). This is working splendidly, better than I had hoped. In the past, I've been anti-rewards but I have to admit that it has been the best thing I could do for this particular child. After a little while using the jars (made some for my boys too--although they don't suffer from negativity, it didn't seem fair to reward only dd for positivity), I realized that those jars are a symbol of my energy level. When they're filling up, my energy level is going up because I don't have to deal with negativity. When they're emptying (a punishment for negative behavior is to lose some gems), you can bet my energy level is diminishing. It's been a wake up call for us all. Good luck! ETA: I also see some recommendations to punish and/or isolate. I did that. And did it and did it and did it... It just ended up with her going into her own world of feeling sorry for herself and had no positive outcome at all. It never changed things for next time either. With the rewards, you can see the gears in her head turning in a different way. It's teaching her self-control in a way that punishment never did. She has a dreamer personality type though, so that is probably part of it. You can punish my boys and they will consider that for next time for sure. DD, no. Edited August 31, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 :grouphug: I had one on that path. We sat down and talked about it. I showed dc how it sounds to others when one complains all the time. Do you want me to complain about every little thing? Didn't think so. ;) Do you think an employer wants employees that whine? Do you want to watch a movie where the characters all complain all the time? Then I told dc that no one has the right to do that. No one wants to be around someone who constantly complains, including me. You do not have the freedom to complain. We then had practice! It was kind of a game at first, but I wanted dc to know there are other ways to talk. We may *feel* discontent at times, but we don't always need to express it. When I thought a complaint would be coming, I gave a reminder that we don't complain and perhaps an example of an appropriate response. For the occasional slip-ups, we just back-tracked the conversation and started it all over. It really didn't take long to change the habit this way. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 :bigear:I got one here, too. I was baking with her and her friend, BAKING. did i say BAKING?? and when told the two girls needed to load the dishwasher with the bowls and mixing spoons, I got a ,"geesh, mom." i lost it. robin in NJ Did you lose it to the extent of tossing the cookies into the trash instead of into the oven? Because that's probably what I would have done! :glare: Laura, I'd say the new rule has to be that complaining about a chore earns a second chore. Questioning why a chore was assigned earns a second chore, and so on. Explain this upfront, in much detail and with emphasis on "always." Then do it. Don't require a "good" attitude, just no arguing or complaining (to you, that is - I don't care if my kids mutter darkly while picking up sticks in the yard :D). You may want to put chores in writing, so there is no question about whether they are done in full or not. Put them on an index card and laminate them. When he insists that he did it, you can calmly hand him the card instead of engaging, and remind him that there will be no Wii or snack or playing with friends until the chore is completed as per the card. Some kids just get in the habit of complaining, and a calm, non-negotiable reaction is all that's needed to get them back on track (not instantly, it takes a few weeks). I will also sharply curtail outside activities, including social time with friends, if complaining is rampant. If they're going to be unhappy no matter what, it's easier and cheaper for them to be unhappy at home. I haven't had to do this in years, but I used to pull out the "with me or without me" threat. My kids can choose to do their chores without me; this choice requires minimal complaining and an overall good job. For example, if they go about cleaning their rooms promptly and with no audible complaints, I'm happy as long as I see the bed being made, books being shelved, and other reasonable signs of a clean-ish room. But if they argue or complain, I am now doing that chore WITH them, and they regret it mighty quickly! They lose the right to do it their way; I stand over them and tell them what to do next, in my most unpleasant tones. While "good enough" is good enough when they do it on their own, the room has to be a sparkling shrine to OCDness if I do it with them - they will be wiping down switchplates, pulling stray threads from the carptet, scrubbing the paper-only trashcan, and so on. A 20-minute job turns into a 2-hour job, supervised by a VERY cranky mom. A variation on the theme is to spend the rest of the day doing chores. If they complain about reasonable chores, you might as well give them unreasonable ones, right? This is most effective when you spend most of the time looking over their shoulder, giving minute instructions and not allowing for any slacking off whatsoever. Chore to chore to chore. It makes for an unpleasant afternoon, but what the hey, you do have a clean house afterwards! Basically, you have to remind him that you have the power to make his life very, very unpleasant. And you have to be willing to do that. When he is making you miserable, remind him that misery loves company :D. Some kids will never stop pushing until you push back. Remember, I'm not saying you have to start with the big guns: start with written instructions and calm responses, but be prepared to step it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Silence. Do the job without complaining or arguing. Do it silently. If you can't unload the dishwasher without complaining, then you cna unload the dishwasher AND fold the laundry. OR Tell him to do the job, then he may WRITE a list of reasons why the job is unfair/unkind/mean, etc. etc.I hate the contrary attitude too. I have 2 like this. Every. little. thing. is a battle w/ a whine attached. They both hate to write, so I think this would be a great idea. Of course, then they will whine about the writing. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingnlearning Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Meh-I don't mind punishing for it. Mine don't have a negative world view, they just get into little stints of complaining and with a rancher husband, complaining is a big no no around here. Mine are 11/14 so they are more than capable of minding what they're saying no matter what they're thinking. Sometimes they just have to do what they're told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I remind him that if I'm going to be nice and still hear complaints I have no incentive to be nice. I might as well be mean, if I am going to hear complaints anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I need natural consequences for a 12 year old who constantly complains about every cotton pickin', stinkin' thing from the time his eyes pop open in the morning until they close in the evening. And I need them now. He's not so much a whiner as just a contrary complainer. If requested to do something, he'll come up with 50 reasons why he shouldn't, why someone else should do it, and then that will launch a complaint fest about that someone else (regardless of who it may be and having nothing to do with the original request). If told (instead of requested) to get something done, he'll complain and only end up doing half of what he was supposed to do. When called on for not doing said thing, he'll complain for ever about how he "did" do it, even though it will clearly be "not done". And so on throughout the entire day. I'm gonna lose it. :001_huh: So maybe it works? I have a complainer. When he complains, I warn him that I expect him to do it without complaint and if he persists, I'll keep adding work until he manages to learn not to complain. I can explain to him that listening to him complain is extremely tiring and depressing so since I often don't feel up to doing certain things after listening to him, he can pick up my slack.:) It often means I have to commit to standing right over him and I try to add little things rather then big chores so I can commit to that. It's working. He hasn't stopped yet but the complaining has been cut own considerably and often the mention of extra work will stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 :grouphug: I had one on that path. We sat down and talked about it. I showed dc how it sounds to others when one complains all the time. Do you want me to complain about every little thing? Didn't think so. ;) Do you think an employer wants employees that whine? Do you want to watch a movie where the characters all complain all the time? Then I told dc that no one has the right to do that. No one wants to be around someone who constantly complains, including me. You do not have the freedom to complain. I did this with my middle ds. I also told him that I want to have a peaceful day and to enjoy his company. I don't enjoy his company when he complains. I pointed out that he was using up energy to complain and resist, and asked him to think through what that was getting him. He still has to do the job but a) he feels sour, b) it takes longer, and c) he has alienated the people around him. Then I gave each boy a handful of nickels and fined each kid a nickel for every time I gave a direction and he complained (mostly ds8) or got distracted (ds10) or pouted (ds6). I do understand where he's coming from. It's very much tied to his personality. This is my child who likes things to make sense. He's very detail-oriented, and he wants explanations. I believe in trying to teach a positive replacement behavior for the negative behaviors, so we're also working on how to advocate for oneself and share ideas appropriately without complaining. Sometimes I say "That was a complaint. Did you mean to say..." and give him a script to repeat: "Mom, does it need to be done right now, or can I do it when I'm finished?" or "I did dog doo-ty last time. I think it's Cal's turn." If he comes up with this kind of response all on his own, I try my best to accommodate him because I want to reward the proper response. However, he cannot endlessly "advocate" either. If I can't accommodate his polite request, he may not whine or repeat it, or he loses a nickel. :grouphug: Whining and complaining is like nails on a chalkboard to me, so I really struggle with being patient with this behavior. (Despite what I posted above. As a matter-of-fact, that's why I came up with it, so I wouldn't lose my mind.) Ugh. Hang in there. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 OR Tell him to do the job, then he may WRITE a list of reasons why the job is unfair/unkind/mean, etc. etc. :lol: I think I just may put up a Suggestions Box. They can write it all down and put it in the Suggestion Box when they've finished the job. Or not. As long as I don't have to listen to it. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I certainly THE right answer, since my oldest is only 8, but we've had success with a "scripting" or "re-do" technique. (It may or may not work for you, but it's my 2-cents worth.) In other words.... "Ds, time for lunch. Pleas pick up the toys and put them in the box." [Grumble, grumble, throw temper tantrum.] Me, "Let's try that again, ds." (Said without a negative attitude or anger.) "Your line is, 'Yes, Mom.' Okay, ready? 'Ds, time for lunch. Please pick up the toys and put them in the box.'" "Yes, Mom." Or whatever. Or, if ds angrily STOMPS out of the room to do something, he needs to come back and exit the room again, WITHOUT STOMPING. A rant of complaints about one of us, turns into, "Okay. Now list 6 things you appreciate about your brother." I also try my Mom's technique of stopping every so often throughout the day and commenting on something I, myself, appreciate. "Oh, what a beautiful day!" Or, "I love how you boys play so well together." Or, "I'm so thankful I married your dad." or, "It's wonderful learning a new language, isn't it?" Again, genuinely-- not saccharine sweet, but honey sweet ;) Pretty soon, other people in the family get in the habit of doing the same thing! (I'm also working on training MYSELF not to complain, and to say "yes" more often than "no", to coming willingly when needed, etc. I'm sure you're already excellent on this, but I'm a work in progress!!) I've been reading a lot of CM, who is big on replacing bad habits with good ones. I keep pondering this sentence of hers, "Neither punishing him nor letting him alone––the two lines of treatment most in favour––ever cured a child of any moral evil. " (From Vol. 2) It's coming up with the " curative treatment" that is most difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerriBerri Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I haven't had to do this in years, but I used to pull out the "with me or without me" threat. My kids can choose to do their chores without me; this choice requires minimal complaining and an overall good job. For example, if they go about cleaning their rooms promptly and with no audible complaints, I'm happy as long as I see the bed being made, books being shelved, and other reasonable signs of a clean-ish room. But if they argue or complain, I am now doing that chore WITH them, and they regret it mighty quickly! They lose the right to do it their way; I stand over them and tell them what to do next, in my most unpleasant tones. While "good enough" is good enough when they do it on their own, the room has to be a sparkling shrine to OCDness if I do it with them - they will be wiping down switchplates, pulling stray threads from the carptet, scrubbing the paper-only trashcan, and so on. A 20-minute job turns into a 2-hour job, supervised by a VERY cranky mom. A variation on the theme is to spend the rest of the day doing chores. If they complain about reasonable chores, you might as well give them unreasonable ones, right? This is most effective when you spend most of the time looking over their shoulder, giving minute instructions and not allowing for any slacking off whatsoever. Chore to chore to chore. It makes for an unpleasant afternoon, but what the hey, you do have a clean house afterwards! Basically, you have to remind him that you have the power to make his life very, very unpleasant. And you have to be willing to do that. When he is making you miserable, remind him that misery loves company :D. Some kids will never stop pushing until you push back. Remember, I'm not saying you have to start with the big guns: start with written instructions and calm responses, but be prepared to step it up! I love this!:thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I could have written your post. My dh is on the phone right now chewing out our 12yo for his attitude. I wish I had advice for you. Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has called DH for backup today! :lol: My 8 yo is a chronic complainer. In fact I just started another thread about his demand for absolute silence while he does schoolwork. Taking note of some of the great ideas on this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I only accept complaints in written form. When complaining from that ensues, I insist the work be written outdoors. We live in the armpit of America where it's either muggy, hot or icy, chilly outside for 9 months of the year, so this is often enough to keep the grumblings to a minimum. Usually. Sometimes they'll go outside to prove a point, but it's always lost on me (though it does make them feel better, which is fine). I do consider their written complaints, though. Usually it gives them an outlet and also time to calm down (me the same time to calm down, as well). It's usually followed by a lecture, not a mean condescending one rather a reminder that we all have things we don't like to do but that doesn't free them from needing to be done! We go over the written complaint point by point, even correcting grammar errors LOL -always fun for the kiddies- and I try to really consider what they're saying. Sometimes I do expect too much, or sometimes I've missed that something else is bothering them and they're feeling stressed. (Which is followed by a lecture of "Do you know the stress I have, too?" and accompanying suck it up like we all do, kid, discussions.) I insist that all complaints come with solutions; complaining without offering solutions isn't acceptable. But on days where I've had it and all patience has flown, ... I reduce myself to the kid's level and start doing the same. I complain about having to cook for them, about having to drive them to sports, about having to get up from the couch to grab the remote, about the sky being two shades lighter blue than I wanted it to be, ... about everything and anything I can. This brings me immediate relief, and oftentimes lightens the mood considerably to where my kid will say, "You know, I'm sorry. I'm tired/hungry/stressed/overwhelmed or whatever, and I know I shouldn't whine." Really, that's what I want: an acknowledgment and willingness to discuss the real problem. We all have bad days, or ... months LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Well, at least I'm not alone! I've tried the punishment of adding more chores, but with him, it's quite likely an entire day will go by and he'll still be at it (because he'll still be grunting and groaning about every little thing and person the whole while and having more added to the ever increasing pile of things to do), and then he's just overwhelmed. Not sure what the deal is with that, but it doesn't seem to work. Yelling, complaining back, grounding from television, computer, wii...none of it makes a real impression. Laura, I'd say the new rule has to be that complaining about a chore earns a second chore. Questioning why a chore was assigned earns a second chore, and so on. Explain this upfront, in much detail and with emphasis on "always." Then do it. Don't require a "good" attitude, just no arguing or complaining (to you, that is - I don't care if my kids mutter darkly while picking up sticks in the yard :D). You may want to put chores in writing, so there is no question about whether they are done in full or not. Put them on an index card and laminate them. When he insists that he did it, you can calmly hand him the card instead of engaging, and remind him that there will be no Wii or snack or playing with friends until the chore is completed as per the card. Some kids just get in the habit of complaining, and a calm, non-negotiable reaction is all that's needed to get them back on track (not instantly, it takes a few weeks). I think the writing of the chores bit needs to be reintroduced. We used to have a list when he was much, much younger, along with a reward system, and it did work to varying degrees. I guess I just kind of think a 12 year old young man doesn't need reminders or rewards for cleaning up after himself, kwim? However, it would seem I don't completely understand the mind of said 12 year old young man, so I think reinstating the "checklist" would be a good idea. I may need to add things like "no tattling just to get someone in trouble", "if you don't have anything nice to say, just stay quiet", "if you want to complain, keep it in your head and do not let it fall through your lips"... It's going to be one whopper of a list (and I'm sure he'll complain about the length :tongue_smilie:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollyandab Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Someone mentioned mimicking what he looks like, but this might be better... My sister used to get out the video camera when her daughter was throwing a tantrum and then show it to her. She was mortified and quickly changed her ways, especially if my sister picked up the camera! Another idea my friend does is, she has her girls put money into a jar (out of their allowance) every time they misbehave or complain. And then, if she wants an extra chore done, she tells them they can have such and such amount of money if they do it. She says it's working great. So, maybe I should take my own advice and apply this to my own little complainers!!:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 My complainers get to pick weeds, scrub baseboards, or organize all of the books by author. My flower bed is getting weedy, so maybe it is working. :001_smile: I like the idea of having the, write down their complaints. We will have to try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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