Here's a WWYD about school question.

[Night Elf]

I'm hating school with my ds15 right now. Hating it! He has Aspergers and certain things don't come easily, specifically writing. He is a very smart guy. Very good at math. Very good at problem solving. Not so good when it comes to working in subjects where he lacks interest. I'm not talking about him hating the subjects, just feeling indifferent so it's like working with a stone statue. But the writing is so hard. It's so stressful for me that my insomnia has basically slapped me silly and my stomach hurts when I realize we have to do school work.

 

Putting him in a brick & mortar school is not an option at all. None. The only exception would be if we could afford a small school specifically handling children with issues like Aspergers. The only one I know about is over an hour away and the tuition is $18,000 a year. Really? Egads!

 

I want to run away. Have you ever reached this point? I've seen threads asking how to regain inspiration, but when motivation is the problem, it seems the best advice is to put the child back into school. Since that can't happen, I just want to run away. To Disney World.

 

The main problem right now is that he has multiple writing assignments that are all boggling his brain.

 

1. A five and a half page paper in World History. Formal outline is due just after the essay mentioned below in #2. But they have schedule it to be done in small chunks over the course of the semester. This doesn't work well for him. It's like starting over again every time. I'm trying to take time out to focus just on this outline and rough draft. He's been working 4 school days on it so far and he has information for 1 out of 6 aspects of the paper.

2. A smaller research assignment, a 5 paragraph essay, in World History.

3. His English class is nothing but writing assignment after writing assignment.

4. And he is about to begin an exam in Biology that has 3 essay questions. He generally needs 2 days to do each exam essay. Plus, add in the days he needs to do the objective questions depending on how many there are. One end of unit exam can last 5 school days.

 

It seems it takes my son about 3 times as long to do an essay than a regular student. My dd19 can write a 5-paragraph essay in a couple of hours (adding in research time). I have to schedule that type of assignment over 4 days at least.

 

We are behind. Again. Every week we go into the weekend with assignments not completed. We work on the weekends trying to catch up. Working 7 days a week on school work is just unpleasant. And this weekend has been the worst of all. He has so many writing assignments going on that he is 3 days behind in 3 of his 4 subjects. Math is the only thing we can keep on track.

 

Okay, this was really just a vent, but Disney World does sound like a good idea. :tongue_smilie:

[Elizabeth in WA]

That much writing would overwhelm my ds15, also an Aspie, as well. I think you might want to reconsider using Keystone High School with a child with such an aversion to writing. I try to decouple writing from all other subjects for my Aspie. Although we work on writing daily and consistently, we don't have multiple writing tasks in different subjects going on at the same time, nor do we confuse dislike of writing with dislike of other subjects. We will be adding outline and rewrite in history this year, but he no longer finds that kind of writing painful or I would not do it. I handle essay type questions in other subjects as discussion so that the deep learning essays and essay exams are trying to get at isn't lost.

[LittleIzumi]

That much writing would overwhelm my ds15, also an Aspie, as well. I think you might want to reconsider using Keystone High School with a child with such an aversion to writing. I try to decouple writing from all other subjects for my Aspie. Although we work on writing daily and consistently, we don't have multiple writing tasks in different subjects going on at the same time, nor do we confuse dislike of writing with dislike of other subjects. We will be adding outline and rewrite in history this year, but he no longer finds that kind of writing painful or I would not do it. I handle essay type questions in other subjects as discussion so that the deep learning essays and essay exams are trying to get at isn't lost.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::grouphug:

[elegantlion]

Have you read many posts from JennW? She has some great advice. I know she allowed one of her sons more freedom in his choices for education.

 

I also remember you wanted to stay with an accredited school, is that correct? Have you looked into others that might let you have more say in choice of assignments and pacing?

 

My ds (almost 14) is a delayed writer and that amount would put him a stall mode. :grouphug: I can see how frustrating that would be.

[Night Elf]

I think you might want to reconsider using Keystone High School with a child with such an aversion to writing.

 

I wish I could! DH is absolutely adamant that our children get accredited high school diplomas and he likes Keystone. All 3 of our children are enrolled. I'll admit that DH doesn't fully understand our son's Aspie issues. He hasn't denied the diagnosis and understands our son is very different but DH was very different from everyone growing up and he made it through, so therefore our son should be fine. Whew.. long sentence! Anyway, he gets his britches all out of whack if I suggest trying something different. He believes I'm coddling our son. Unfortunately, I've never found any professional to agree with me so in my DH's mind, I'm enabling my son to not improve. Ugh.

 

FWIW, when ds writes something, it always sounds so good. His grammar and mechanics along with his word choices are very good. But it takes him forever to produce that one great piece of writing. I don't know what on earth we're going to do when he has to take the SAT!

 

Ds is very irritable lately because of these writing assignments. They take so much out of him. I'm trying to slow the scheduled work so that he isn't writing so much each day, but it's really difficult with 3 of his 4 subjects requiring so much writing right now. There simply isn't any way around it. The assignments have to be done in sequential order so we're stuck.

 

I'm still thinking. Perhaps I can just put World History, the writing is worse than in English, on hold and have him do something easier right now. I just have to figure out how to approach DH with it.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug: Do his teachers have any suggestions for his writing perhaps?

[Wendi]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Maybe we need our own support group: People who are homeschooling teenage Aspie boys!

 

I agree that you may want to make some curriculum changes. I don't know anything about Keystone, so are you committed for the whole year? Can you make adaptations for special needs? It sounds like you are gearing up for your son to shut down or melt down with that much writing.

 

Right now it sounds like (a) he hates/struggles with writing, and (b) his whole school day is writing (except math), so no wonder you want to run away and join a circus! :auto:

 

I know it's a struggle getting an Aspie teen to do something he's not interested in or doesn't understand why it's important (at least that's the case in my house). Yet learning to just do what you need to do is an important lesson, so it's hard figuring out the balance between making accomodations and making him tough it out. But it does sound to me like he's doing too much writing right now. Is there any way he can draw a diagram for biology, instead of writing it all out?

 

Wendi

[Night Elf]

:grouphug: Do his teachers have any suggestions for his writing perhaps?

 

No, I've checked with the guidance counselors and there is nothing in place for special needs. The couple of teachers I've talked with are understanding but nothing can be changed. The classes are self-paced so that is seen as being helpful, which it is really. Each class has 12 months to finish it and a free 1-month extension. After that, I have to pay for a 6-month extension and I think it's $100 to do that. So at least we have the time to take if we need it. We did Literary Lessons from The Lord of the Rings for 9th grade English and none of his past courses were as writing intensive as his current 10th grade English and his World History.

[Night Elf]

I don't know anything about Keystone, so are you committed for the whole year? Can you make adaptations for special needs? It sounds like you are gearing up for your son to shut down or melt down with that much writing.

 

I agree, but DH doesn't. We pay per class and he is currently enrolled in only 4 classes. Each class has a 12-month timeframe with the possibility of adding more time if needed. DH hates the idea of any class taking more than 52 weeks. I just tried talking to him and it turned into an argument. So I'll just go on doing what I'm doing and stretch out the assignments as needed. DH doesn't keep up with our daily work. He has this silly notion that if ds is sitting at the table working, he is making progress. Well, it is some progress but not what DH thinks.

 

Yet learning to just do what you need to do is an important lesson, so it's hard figuring out the balance between making accomodations and making him tough it out. But it does sound to me like he's doing too much writing right now. Is there any way he can draw a diagram for biology, instead of writing it all out?

 

Yes, we talk a great deal about having to do things even when you don't want to do them. I'm thankful that ds is not defiant. He'll do whatever is asked of him but I know he's feeling crap inside. It's the way I was growing up. It breeds resentment and I'm fairly positive he'll be as cynical as I am because of it.

 

The Biology essay questions don't lend themselves to diagramming and labeling. His 1st essay on this next test is a 5 paragraph essay that requires him to describe the general features of the major plant groups, living conditions where they survive, and the necessary specific abiotic conditions required. And it's all housed in a 'let's make this interesting' type of format. He has to write like he is a botanist on a team terraforming an uninhabited planet. I would like to meet a student who is happier about writing such an essay because he/she gets to pretend they are a future botanist. :001_huh: Who comes up with these things?

 

I know I can't change things but it sure is nice to have a sounding board of people who won't accuse me of trying to make things easy for my son. It's nice to know that others are going through the same things as I am.

[Myra]

Have you tried letting him write his work on the computer (microsoft word or something similar)as opposed to writing the assignments out on paper? That really helped my son a lot. If he is getting overwhelmed, I let him dictate to me as I type it in for him. We then use the grammar and spell check together plus make any revisions/editing. I also find different pens make a difference with my son - the gel tip ones glide smoothly and somehow the texture or feel of those pens make my son happier! Same with paper - college ruled paper works better with my son as opposed to thicker ruled paper - don't know why, but if it works who am I to knock it! I do have a friend who is trying Dragonspeak with her son - he talks into a microphone and it types it up on the computer as he's talking. I also find that I need to know my own son's energy levels and only attempt the writing portion when he is at a "high" peak of energy. We often alternate during the day - a subject with writing, then a subject with no writing, etc.

 

Myra

[nrg]

Writing was like birthing for my now grown Aspie son. He eventually learned how to begin before he had the whole paper in mind, but that took years of hard work. I would consider designing courses with a few writing assignments that are finished to excellence, and discussion and notes for the remainder of the assignments. It is particularly difficult for folks with ASD to make themselves do things they really dislike, and it is difficult for them to write as well. So much energy, emotional and physical on these assignments degrades the overall learning experience.

[anotherbrother]

Would it be possible to work on only one course at a time if you have 12 months to complete each one? Maybe you could focus on one subject until it's complete or until you get to a stopping (pause) point and then move on to the next subject. I find it very difficult personally to juggle many different courses of study at one time.

[chiguirre]

:iagree: with Dragonspeak. That's my hope for highschool!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Maybe we need our own support group: People who are homeschooling teenage Aspie boys!

 

I would join!

 

I do let my son type almost everything on the computer, but I'm now second guessing myself. He is really handicapped by not having mastered writing on paper. And he will need it for SAT and others...

[melmichigan]

My DD is a Keystone class dropout. She tried taking a high school science class. The course material wasn't a problem, the format was. The whole program seems to focus on writing to compensate for the open book format. She was given all the questions for a test and they were all open book essay, definately not good for an Aspie. I'm not sure what the solution would be in accredited schools but I would look into other options. I know a few use proctored tests so that they can use something other than just essays.

 

We are hoping to get DragonSpeak this next paycheck, it has gotten very high recommendations from the neuropsychologists we are working with.

[Garga]

You must have thought of this, because it's so obvious, and there must be a reason why you can't, (because it's just so obvious!), but I have to ask.

 

And I'm not asking in an accusatory tone towards your dh, but....

 

...is there any way possible that dh can take over some of the writing duties? (Not even all--just some of them?) You wouldn't present it in an aggressive way. It would be more like, "DH, you know I think there's something going on with ds, and I know that you think I'm coddling him, but, sweetie, obviously what I'm doing just isn't working. Can you work with him on the writing to get us over this hump? If you can please help me get us past this block, then I'll take it back over again."

 

If dh is right and you're coddling, then dh will solve the problem.

If you're right and ds really has issues, then dh will see that and you guys can solve the problem together.

 

I feel silly posting this, because you must have thought of it, and there must be a reason that you can't, but just in case you're too close to the trees and can't see the forest, I thought I'd ask.

[Impish]

You must have thought of this, because it's so obvious, and there must be a reason why you can't, (because it's just so obvious!), but I have to ask.

 

And I'm not asking in an accusatory tone towards your dh, but....

 

...is there any way possible that dh can take over some of the writing duties? (Not even all--just some of them?) You wouldn't present it in an aggressive way. It would be more like, "DH, you know I think there's something going on with ds, and I know that you think I'm coddling him, but, sweetie, obviously what I'm doing just isn't working. Can you work with him on the writing to get us over this hump? If you can please help me get us past this block, then I'll take it back over again."

 

If dh is right and you're coddling, then dh will solve the problem.

If you're right and ds really has issues, then dh will see that and you guys can solve the problem together.

 

I feel silly posting this, because you must have thought of it, and there must be a reason that you can't, but just in case you're too close to the trees and can't see the forest, I thought I'd ask.

That's what I was going to suggest.

[Night Elf]

Have you tried letting him write his work on the computer (microsoft word or something similar)as opposed to writing the assignments out on paper?

 

Oh my yes! He hasn't written on paper in years. He does his math work on a dry erase board. As someone else said though, I'm worried about the SAT. He's sitting next to me as I respond, with his help, and he said 'You can't use computers on the SAT??' :)

 

Would it be possible to work on only one course at a time if you have 12 months to complete each one?

 

Not really. He needs 21 credits (classes) to earn his diploma. He's completed 5 classes so far. I'm not tied to the traditional 4 years of high school but my DH isn't fond of the idea of it taking longer. I think 5 would be his limit. I did talk with ds about doing a couple of classes at a time, but that he would have work double time on them, i.e. finish them in half the time it would take if he were taking 4 classes. He doesn't like that idea because he thinks it would be awful to work on the same subject for so long every day. He likes the varied material with 4 subjects. However, both he and I did tell DH that there is NO way he can handle 5 classes. Egads!

 

Some of the classes are easy, some are more difficult. I'm hoping it will balance out that he'll spend less time on some classes and more time on the ones like World History.

 

It is particularly difficult for folks with ASD to make themselves do things they really dislike, and it is difficult for them to write as well. So much energy, emotional and physical on these assignments degrades the overall learning experience.

 

Yes it is, but I must say he's gotten so much better at this over the years. He understands that we need to push through sometimes, but that there will be times when it is okay to not push through. It's just too vague a point to discuss further with him. And with me too! :tongue_smilie:

 

About your last sentence, I tried explaining this to DH. He sort of got it, but he still thinks ds can handle it all. He suggests short working sessions and frequent short breaks.

 

The course material wasn't a problem, the format was. The whole program seems to focus on writing to compensate for the open book format. She was given all the questions for a test and they were all open book essay, definately not good for an Aspie.

 

Actually, ds loves the format of Keystone. So far his classes have been quite manageable. He's had writing assignments, but this is the first time he is taking multiple classes that have lots of writing assignments. He did fine on his research papers in American History and in Biology. They just take him longer than what a regular student (not sure how else to word that comparison) would take. Truly, our main problem is his current course load has him doing too much writing. Before this, he wrote maybe every other day, and only in one subject. I managed to create a daily schedule where he wasn't working on more than one writing assignment at a time. But his current course load is making that type of schedule really difficult.

 

You must have thought of this, because it's so obvious, and there must be a reason why you can't, (because it's just so obvious!), but I have to ask.

 

:lol: I'm not offended at all. Yes, we have done that. DH is always around when we need help. He is working with our son on the World History paper right now. But he doesn't see the need for sitting next to him the whole time the way I do. Instead, he gives ds something to research and come back with the information. He does understand it's a slow process but yet he isn't making the full connection that this slow process means it will take weeks to get through this paper. For someone as smart as DH, he's not adding 1 and 1 to get 2.

 

Oh, and thank goodness he is good at math! He's been working with our son on Algebra 2 because my brain is simply numb when it comes to that level of math. So DH does understand how our son thinks. I just think DH isn't looking at the big picture. That's funny. I didn't make that connection myself until just now. I'm the big picture kind of person and he's the small parts type. I'll have to share that with him tomorrow. Maybe we can find a way to make this all work.

 

You gals have been so helpful! Ds and I just looked over the schedule for the week. It's not great, but doable. But we are going into it with the understanding that we will not stress out if we do not get to all of this work this week. He'll do his best though. We are setting a specific start time for school. Hopefully that will help too.

[amey311]

Can he orally compose it? I wonder if he could dictate it into some recording program and then transcribe it, if that would be easier than strictly composing in text.

 

Another Captain Obvious kind of question: have you looked online for strategies specifically related to term paper writing and ASD teens? I'm relatively certain my nearly 11 year old is on the spectrum (he has SID/SPD that we know of), and I know I'd have to break down a paper into very small tasks if I wanted him to write multiple paragraphs. His reading ability has only just taken off, so we've slow to do writing (he's doing WWE 2 right now).

 

Composing involves a bit of creative thinking, which can be harder for the literal minded - to not completely repeat what you've just read, but restate it in your own words, even when the subject matter is nonfiction.

 

:grouphug:

 

I'm sure I'll be in your shoes in a couple of years. I have a friend who has a 13 year old on the spectrum and he's gifted, but when a certain subject doesn't interest him, he puts in no effort and his grades reflect that.

 

OH! Just to continue to play Captain Obvious - did your son choose the subject matter? Is it possible to change the topic? Of course if he has no interest in anything related to subject than you're back where you started.

 

And finally, I don't know if Asperger's is your son's only diagnosis. If it's not, you might want to look at the accommodations available for the SAT. There are several, and require documentation, so it would be good to start looking at that now.

[Myra]

I just thought of something else. (I know my ideas may seem basic and that you may already be doing a lot of the stuff I suggest, but sometimes I miss the most basic steps & need them pointed out to me! You know, can't see the forest b/c of the trees type stuff!). My son's junior year we did IEW High School Essay Intensive for the SAT essay writing. It really helped my son's writing & anxiety. We did one a practice short SAT essay a week from then on. My son wrote the essay on paper the first day and timed. Then on the next day, he typed the essay from the day before on microsoft making any improvements without the time-limit or handwriting pressure making grammar/spell/revisions/edits, etc. This two-day process really helped.

 

Myra

[Carrie12345]

I think I'd try to put a 2 step plan into place. First, leave it to dh and ds. Let them both experience the full impact of that. If he gets a good grade, maybe your dh is on to something! If he bombs, it's time to revisit.

 

Just because your dh WANTS this program doesn't make it the right fit for any one child. If it isn't working, dh has a responsibility to examine the difference between an accredited diploma and a well-educated child.

[Tammyla]

Have you considered or asked for accommodations though Keystone?

 

BIg hug, that amount of writing would overwhelm my ds too.

 

I wish I could! DH is absolutely adamant that our children get accredited high school diplomas and he likes Keystone. All 3 of our children are enrolled. I'll admit that DH doesn't fully understand our son's Aspie issues. He hasn't denied the diagnosis and understands our son is very different but DH was very different from everyone growing up and he made it through, so therefore our son should be fine. Whew.. long sentence! Anyway, he gets his britches all out of whack if I suggest trying something different. He believes I'm coddling our son. Unfortunately, I've never found any professional to agree with me so in my DH's mind, I'm enabling my son to not improve. Ugh.

 

FWIW, when ds writes something, it always sounds so good. His grammar and mechanics along with his word choices are very good. But it takes him forever to produce that one great piece of writing. I don't know what on earth we're going to do when he has to take the SAT!

 

Ds is very irritable lately because of these writing assignments. They take so much out of him. I'm trying to slow the scheduled work so that he isn't writing so much each day, but it's really difficult with 3 of his 4 subjects requiring so much writing right now. There simply isn't any way around it. The assignments have to be done in sequential order so we're stuck.

 

I'm still thinking. Perhaps I can just put World History, the writing is worse than in English, on hold and have him do something easier right now. I just have to figure out how to approach DH with it.

[Anne in CA]

My dh also wanted my ds to get a accredited hs diploma, and to be honest it has already come in handy. We used North Atlantic Regional High School because the allow almost any type of high school level curricula. For his last year of LA credit my ds wrote twelve two page book reports on classic books. It took him a long time to write the reports but he is a fast reader. They also counted Traditional Logic as 1/2 a LA credit, and he used Alpha Omega lifepacs for a super easy LA credit and he did Abeka grade 10 grammar for 1/2 a credit. They counted this NANOWRIMO novel for a whole LA credit. I know that is more writing than your ds wants to do, but it was my son's choice.

 

I think you would be able to count the Keystone work your ds had already done for credit. Maybe your dh wouldn't consider it, but I think it would be a lot easier for your son. My ds was able to choose most of his courses and we had an easeir time getting along than when I made all the decisions and he had to follow along. Also it helped him to make good decisions about college this year.