Frustrated with myself and my son

[gracesteacher]

Has he had a sleep studyy yet

[UnsinkableKristen]

I have absolutely no advice to offer, but :grouphug:.

 

It sounds like you are in a hard place and are exhausted.

[kalanamak]

:grouphug:

 

Take this for what it is worth - I'm no expert - but I can read people kinda well at times..... This is what he possibly percieves/thinks, but is way too young to explain....

 

He has a lot on his plate for being so young. I'm sure he has some inner anger to work through - and if he has to be miserable about it - everyone else is going to be as well.

 

He really doesn't understand the issues he has - no matter how well or how many times they have been explained. He's too young....

 

:iagree:, especially the :grouphug:. I don't know what *else* I'd do, but for 6, I'd cut back on the book work and try to get 3+ hours outdoor/hard, sweating play in each day. I think out ancestors were a lot more physically outdoors, esp as a youth, and worked hard.

[wormbuy]

I feel for you. :grouphug: Someone mentioned helping him transfer his anger to something else.....it made me think of a "stress ball", something he could carry around and squeeze when he gets angry, maybe that would be useful.

[5LittleMonkeys]

:grouphug:

 

 

He has a lot on his plate for being so young. I'm sure he has some inner anger to work through - and if he has to be miserable about it - everyone else is going to be as well.

 

He really doesn't understand the issues he has - no matter how well or how many times they have been explained. He's too young....

 

You are his mom, and in some ways he still thinks you rule the world. So - why aren't you fixing it all for him??? He is by far the angriest with you because you are the one he loves and relies on the most.

 

The language gets your attention, makes you see how angry and upset he is, and he gets a reaction from others as well. Possibly a bigger reaction than any of the physical ways he is acting out. He knows it hurts you, he knows it embarasses you, and he is trying to use it. Not necesarrily to always get his way - maybe to see what you do? Maybe to see if you get it? Get what? I don't know - only he does and he's too young to explain. I suppose he wants you to get that he is angry in a deep way he can't control.I wanted to address this specifically. Dc with uncontrolled emotions like to gain control in other areas of their lives. It helps them to feel that they aren't totally bobbing about with no rudder.

 

 

Aside from that - I think you need to somehow connect with that part of him that is mad. Give him a safe way to get angry (hitting his pillow, throwing stuffed animals against the wall) - some kids - when they can't express themselves - need to get it out physically. It is ok to be angry - but we all have to learn to be angry in the right way.

 

Explain that you understand that he's mad and frustrated, and that you would be too. It's a bummer, and life has given him some tough stuff to deal with. But you know that he is smart enough and good enough to conquer it all, and you'll help him as much as you can.

 

Read him a few stories - about Helen Keller, Disney (he was dyslexic), Einstein (total failure in school - got kicked out, etc), and others like that. Show him that once he gets past the anger, and gets over life not being fair, that he can succede.This is an excellent idea.

 

I know this seems out there - but I just get the feeling that might be what;s going on.

 

Hang in there.

 

I was going to post a lot of what Kristy has said. Poor little guy seems to be extremely frustrated. He probably knows that his behavior is wrong but doesn't have a clue how to fix it and it has become such habit that it owns him now.

 

Before I get into some of the other suggestions I wanted to say that I think you are a brave and wonderful mom. Your desire to do what is best for your son will see you through this. Be patient and try to remain compassionate and see things through his eyes. Enlist his help in fixing this; become a team.

 

I'm going on the assumption that his behavior isn't caused by some medical condition. Having put that out there, I'm going to reiterate much of what Kristy has said; you have to find a way to reach him. Can you sit with him and explain that you know how mad and frustrated he gets and that those feelings are completely okay and natural and that everyone has them. Right now his feelings are in charge of him but you are going to help him become master of his emotions. Over-emphasize how much you love him and that you are never going to give up on him. Do you think he would react to your asking him to help you? Tell him that you can't let him use profanity but you aren't sure of what other words he would feel would express his frustration and anger as well as his current words. Perhaps if you put the ball in his court and allow him some control in choosing the new words and let him know that you understand his need for them it will help him. I might even try to make it into a fun experience. Imagine his excitement in the two of you yelling 'fuzzy pickles' or

'great googly moogly' together. Obviously you would do this during one of his calm moods. I'm sure even if you can get him to agree to some new words he is going to slip up but you really need to, and I think you already have figured this out, stay calm and cool and perhaps whisper in his ear a code word to remind him of his new words. If he would react badly to you saying anything to him at all then ask him what other code you could use. Maybe hand him a stick of gum, a toy, or whistle a certain tune.

 

This brings me to my next point about the grocery store incidents. I don't think quarters 'if' he behaves at the grocery store is effective. He probably knows that you assume he will misbehave and he also probably looks on this as a ploy to prevent the bad behavior, not really a reward for good behavior. I might be inclined the next time to go ahead and let him use the quarters when you get to the store. Tell him that your letting him use the quarters because you love him and that you get a lot of joy out of seeing him happy. If he has an outburst later in the store you can quietly direct him to use his new words. When you are home again you can tell him that you could tell that xyz bothered him and upset him. Ask him if he can explain to you in words or pictures or acting out with toys how xyz made him feel. Don't discount what upset him or belittle how it made him feel. Even if the outburst was simply to irk you and get you to hurry up and get home you need to get him to express himself about that. It will take a long time maybe, but he will eventually learn from your discussions other ways that he can express these strong emotions. You will also be building up trust and modeling compassion.

 

I don't think regular punishments work well with highly emotional dc. It escalates them further. Unrelated punishments definitely don't work. Natural consequences enforced in a compassionate and sympathetic way seem to work best. A natural consequence to a profane outburst in the grocery store would be to not get to go to the grocery store the next time, however, you say he doesn't want to go anyway. I would say leave him home when you can but then you have the problem of him hitting his sister. The natural consequence of him doing this is that he is restricted to his room when you aren't there. You need to explain to him that this isn't a punishment though, it is a consequence of him hurting his sister. You need to talk through the outburst the same way you would about the profanity outburst. If he won't stay in his room, lock it. If he trashes it, empty it. Natural consequences of his actions. Always talk about it though...get him to express in a constructive, acceptable way how he feels and validate his emotions.

 

Karate? Only if you can get the profanity under control. There is no way I would subject other dc or instructors to that. I would also fully disclose your sons behaviors and ask if they feel they could handle it.

 

I don't know what your going through. I have a highly emotional dc that has been extremely difficult and had outbursts but never hit or used profanity. I can only imagine how helpless it makes you feel. I don't know if anything I typed out will help at all...your son may need more help than you are able to provide him through changing your interactions with him. Keep trying though and don't be afraid to try something totally different. :grouphug:

Edited August 6, 2011 by 5LittleMonkeys

[LidiyaDawn]

That would be so, utterly and completely, unacceptable around here. I don't care what others think, my son would have his face slapped for every curse word out of his mouth.

 

Then I would go Dr. Phil on him. Take every single item out of his room; leave him one pillow, one sheet and one cheapo comforter. NOTHING ELSE in his room. He would eat PB&J with fruit for every meal and water to drink. He would not go out in public. He would not have dessert. He would not watch TV. Or play video games. I would find some hard manual labor for him to do. I would take his siblings out and leave his butt at home with Dad. And I would do this while explaining to him, everyday, several times a day, what is right and wrong, unacceptable and acceptable, and that we love him too much to let him continue such nasty behavior. I would shower him with love and affection in the process, but still.

 

I don't want to come off as mean or judgmental, that's just what I would do.

 

Wow. Yeah, because slapping a disabled child across the face really says "I love you." :(

[Renee in NC]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you!

 

My nephew (almost 18), Has CP it was caused by brain damage. (he's about 4th/5th grade level mentally) He also has ADHD

 

He was exactly like this: swore, threw major tantrums, etc.

 

It wasn't until he was about 10 that they changed his medicine; It changed his whole personality! Now he's so nice,friendly, etc.

 

I hope you can solve the problem! :grouphug:

 

My 10yo was extremely aggressive and out of control. He had severe learning issues, motor planning/control issues, language issues, etc. Vyvanse has turned him into a totally different kid. A year ago I was not sure that he would ever live on his own, he was 5th percentile in language, diagnosed mildly MR - overall not a good prognosis. His behavior was horrible - cursing, hitting, attacking, threatening to kill everyone, etc. He was on a preschool/K level in all subjects.

 

He started Vyvanse in Sep 2010. He went up a dose in Oct. He went up again in February and it was miraculous.

 

Now, he will be discharged from speech therapy soon. No more motor problems. No more outbursts. Will most likely be on grade level within the next year. The right meds can make all the difference.

 

I drove an hour and a half to have him tested and I would drive 3-4 hours for treatment if I had to. You have to find him some help. It doesn't sound like there is *any* discipline technique that is going to work at this time. Does he receive SSI? Does he have Medicaid?

[Renee in NC]

Wow. Yeah, because slapping a disabled child across the face really says "I love you." :(

 

Unless you have a child with issues, it seems so simple. When my ds was escalating, there was no slapping him (would've made things infinitely worse.) I was restraining him until he was done to keep him from hurting himself and others. It's a sad place to be.

 

:grouphug:

[gingersmom]

:grouphug:

 

I can't profess to know what you are going through. I would just keep seeking out different therapists even if you have to drive for hours. Their has to be a light at the end of the tunnel for you and your son.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Please know that I'm saying this gently so as not to offend, but I'm concerned that you said that he hits your daughter but is left alone with her? :grouphug:

 

This only happens if they are both in good moods and I have not had a problem yet. They're never alone for more than an hour, and I'm very local. He likes it, she loves it. They get along better, I think because I'm always impressed at their good behavior while I'm gone.

 

Has he had a sleep studyy yet

 

Yes. He has sleep fragmentation, delayed sleep phase (but no delayed onset), very mild apnea, parasomnias, and rythmic movement disorder. Unfortunately his pulmonologist from NY labeled it all mild and said nothing could be done. New Neuro said 90+ arousals in one night is not mild and referred him to the children's hospital's complex sleep team.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

:grouphug:

 

Take this for what it is worth - I'm no expert - but I can read people kinda well at times..... This is what he possibly percieves/thinks, but is way too young to explain....

 

He has a lot on his plate for being so young. I'm sure he has some inner anger to work through - and if he has to be miserable about it - everyone else is going to be as well.

 

He really doesn't understand the issues he has - no matter how well or how many times they have been explained. He's too young....

 

You are his mom, and in some ways he still thinks you rule the world. So - why aren't you fixing it all for him??? He is by far the angriest with you because you are the one he loves and relies on the most.

 

The language gets your attention, makes you see how angry and upset he is, and he gets a reaction from others as well. Possibly a bigger reaction than any of the physical ways he is acting out. He knows it hurts you, he knows it embarasses you, and he is trying to use it. Not necesarrily to always get his way - maybe to see what you do? Maybe to see if you get it? Get what? I don't know - only he does and he's too young to explain. I suppose he wants you to get that he is angry in a deep way he can't control. This is pretty much how I feel. As mom, I'm supposed to understand him and fix everything.

 

I do think discipline is a big part ( I know you've tried it all - I think you have done an amazing job so far). Perhaps weeding the garden, running up and down stairs, doing push-ups (anything physical - wear the little bugger out).

 

Aside from that - I think you need to somehow connect with that part of him that is mad. Give him a safe way to get angry (hitting his pillow, throwing stuffed animals against the wall) - some kids - when they can't express themselves - need to get it out physically. It is ok to be angry - but we all have to learn to be angry in the right way. I do allow him to bang his bed ladder against the bed. It's loud and hard and seems to help him a little.

 

Explain that you understand that he's mad and frustrated, and that you would be too. It's a bummer, and life has given him some tough stuff to deal with. But you know that he is smart enough and good enough to conquer it all, and you'll help him as much as you can.

 

Read him a few stories - about Helen Keller, Disney (he was dyslexic), Einstein (total failure in school - got kicked out, etc), and others like that. Show him that once he gets past the anger, and gets over life not being fair, that he can succede. This is a great idea! I think he knows he has problems but can't possibly understand it.

 

I know this seems out there - but I just get the feeling that might be what;s going on. I agree.

 

Hang in there.

.

[gracesteacher]

 

Yes. He has sleep fragmentation, delayed sleep phase (but no delayed onset), very mild apnea, parasomnias, and rythmic movement disorder. Unfortunately his pulmonologist from NY labeled it all mild and said nothing could be done. New Neuro said 90+ arousals in one night is not mild and referred him to the children's hospital's complex sleep team.

 

Please please request a full 10/20. That will rule out siezures An ENT can evaluate his tonisils and remove those. In our lab more than 10 events is removal of tonsils or cpap. The other two ped labs revome/cpap at 3 events. Was the first lab a ped lab?

[Sputterduck]

His diet isn't too terrible, but thinking about it, he has not been drinking more than 1-2 pediasures per day so he may not be getting enough calories. This has been on ongoing battle since he was a toddler. He has a feeding evaluation in October. I will look into any diets mentioned, but I have to be careful to make sure he eats enough.

 

Why is he drinking Pediasure? The first six ingredients are "Water, Sugar (Sucrose), Corn Maltodextrin, Milk Protein Concentrate, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil" Yuck. That is *terrible* nutrition. The artificial colorings make up more volume than many of the vitamins in most flavors. Could that possible be contributing?

[Renee in NC]

Why is he drinking Pediasure? The first six ingredients are "Water, Sugar (Sucrose), Corn Maltodextrin, Milk Protein Concentrate, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil" Yuck. That is *terrible* nutrition. The artificial colorings make up more volume than many of the vitamins in most flavors. Could that possible be contributing?

 

OP, has he been tested for gluten intolerance? The fact that he has feeding issues makes me wonder about digestive problems.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Asperger's makes this different than just discipline. I have no answers. What works for mine might not work for yours. So just :grouphug:

[lauraeden]

Remember that CP is a real "junk" diagnosis - if they don't what the issue is they often label it CP.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Why is he drinking Pediasure? The first six ingredients are "Water, Sugar (Sucrose), Corn Maltodextrin, Milk Protein Concentrate, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil" Yuck. That is *terrible* nutrition. The artificial colorings make up more volume than many of the vitamins in most flavors. Could that possible be contributing?

 

He will not eat. To the point that his skinny little body was down to 43lbs (I have pictures of how bad that looks). It probably is contributing, but I don't know how to get him to eat enough! He usually drinks 5 per day for 1200 calories. I have no idea how to replace 1200 calories per day in him.

[gracesteacher]

Will he drink smoothies or juice from a juicer?

[SailorMom]

Amo - I hope you got that the "you should be able to fix everything" part of my post was only what HE is probably thinking, right?:grouphug:

 

Of course you can't :grouphug: We all want to, though.

 

I know with my ds - who's issues are no where near as difficult to deal with as what you have on your plate - I physically ache when I feel helpless.

 

You're doing an excellent job - and someday he'll understand - probably sooner rather than later.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

OP, has he been tested for gluten intolerance? The fact that he has feeding issues makes me wonder about digestive problems.

 

His bloodwork a few years ago showed high for whatever blood test they do regarding gluten. A year later it was normal, as was his sigmoidoscopy (sp?). GI problems have always been there, but never addressed. A Dr will seemed concerned but the first batch of tests (blood, stool, 1 scope) will be normal and it's never taken any further.

 

I will cut gluten and see how he does. The pediasure is GF and I've already noticed that he's better behaved when he eats almost nothing and drinks the pediasure.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Amo - I hope you got that the "you should be able to fix everything" part of my post was only what HE is probably thinking, right?:grouphug:

 

Of course you can't :grouphug: We all want to, though.

 

I know with my ds - who's issues are no where near as difficult to deal with as what you have on your plate - I physically ache when I feel helpless.

 

You're doing an excellent job - and someday he'll understand - probably sooner rather than later.

 

Yes I got that, but I feel that something needs to be fixed!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Remember that CP is a real "junk" diagnosis - if they don't what the issue is they often label it CP.

 

The CP isn't "official" but it sure fits better than his last round of diagnoses!

 

Medical conditions related to CP (googled) fit as well; asthma, poor teeth, sleep problems.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Please please request a full 10/20. That will rule out siezures An ENT can evaluate his tonisils and remove those. In our lab more than 10 events is removal of tonsils or cpap. The other two ped labs revome/cpap at 3 events. Was the first lab a ped lab?

 

His studies have only been done in peds labs, but I don't think we're getting a full picture. He normally sleeps 12 hours per night and a study is only 6. He sleeps on his belly, but can't in the lab.

 

He had his tonsils and adenoids out when he was 3 based on family history of OSA, his allergies, behavior, asthma, and his need for ear tubes.

 

Sleep studies were started almost a full year after T&A.

 

What is a full 10/20? I have copies of his sleep reports, will I be able to tell if he was watched for seizures?

 

He had one sleep deprived EEG which was normal. He loved the strobe light.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Will he drink smoothies or juice from a juicer?

 

None that I've made so far.

 

If I could somehow mimic pediasure but healthier, he'd drink it. The texture has to be completely smooth.

 

I don't have a juicer, only blender.

[gracesteacher]

Only six hours wow. That makes me angry unless the parent wanted the study ended or there was an issue his study should be no less than 8hrs. Most of our last 9+

I ma not sure how they wrote the report but there would have been about 20 electrodes just on his head. I am wondering if his sleep study was not a full on bbut a siezure on. Did the have a canula in his nose and belts on him?

 

Use the blender and add a bannana then the pedisure add different fruuits/veggies combos to add nutrition but keep familar till you can wean out the pedisure

[gracesteacher]

How on earth did they keep on his back??

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I didn't count the head electrodes, but there were a bunch. One behind each ear. Yes to a nasal cannula, as well as a monitor on his throat, one on each leg, and 4-5 abdominal stickies. I've had 3 sleep studies, and his set up seemed to be the same as mine.

 

He was allowed back and sides. When he tried to move to his belly, someone came in and flipped him, which woke him.

 

The study ended at 4am, not by our choice, and he wasn't wired up and ready for bed until after 10pm! His normal bedtime is 6-7pm until 6-7am, and that's how long I want his next study to be.

[Barb_]

Boys, even neurotypical ones, seem to interpret every negative emotion as anger. Sadness, jealousy, fear, frustration, embarrassment...they all come out looking like anger. Then we unwittingly make it worse by telling them things like, "It's okay to be angry...punch your pillow" If it isn't actually anger they're feeling, punching a pillow is just going to reinforce the confusion. My 6yo had a wicked temper when he was younger. After a while I began to realize that his tantrums were what I like to think of as distress tantrums (as opposed to brat tantrums). Sure, his distress may have been caused by my cutting his sandwich in triangles when he wanted it cut straight across, but this feeliing of "not right" really rocked his world. He WANTED to be good, but if felt like the universe was conspiring against him.

 

I learned to use words other than angry to describe what he was feeling. Over time (years!) it has begun to work. I still get in a hurry and screw up and cause a distress tantrum when I don't pay attention to what is really going on. For example, I would shove a pile of something at him and insist he put it away in the garage, but he would wig out. It would look like he was just refusing to mind, and I would escalate the situation. I learned to get down to his level and ask him, "Collin, what is going on with you right now," and since we'd been laying the groundwork he'd be able to say, "I'm really, really afraid of the garage because of the scorpions and I'm frustrated because you're going to make me do it anyway!"

 

Sometimes just telling him what I think is going on will cause him to come around. My husband lives in Chicago and we live in Phoenix. We spent the summer with him, but it was time to come home. Jenna and the cats stayed behind for an extra two weeks. On the way home, we were swimming at a hotel pool and Collin began acting defiant about something stupid..jumping in the pool with his face covered, I think. I said, "don't" and he told me he didn't have to listen to me. I said, "We're leaving," and he said, "I won't and you can't make me." I was ticked. My kids don't talk to me that way...they just don't. Long story short, he was frog-marched back to the room, stripped and shoved into his pajamas. By this time I was on the ceiling mad, he was on the ceiling mad...I knew I had to defuse the situation. I stopped and sat on the bed. I quietly asked, "Collin, what is really going on with you?" He screamed, "I'm MAD because I don't WANT to leave the POOL!!!" I let that hang for a second and then I said, "I'll bet you're sad because you really miss Daddy, don't you?" He started to cry, so I said, "And Jenna probably, too. And maybe you're worried because you're starting school for the first time and even though you're excited, you're afraid that you won't make a friend and won't know what to do." By this time he's sobbing and nodding, so I picked him up and squeezed him. "And mostly I miss my KITTIES!!!" he wailed, which actually was kind of funny.

 

I told him I didn't like how he was talking to me. It was disrespectful and I deserve to be treated better than that. "I'm good to you and I love you, and I expect you to act good to me in return, understand?" Then we talked about how he should have handled the situation instead. It's easy to get so wrapped up in telling kids how not to act, that we forget they don't often know how to handle things in a different way. We wrapped up by talking about the pool tomorrow and how things would be different because he would mind and because he would treat me respectfully and we'd all get along better.

 

I hope this helps some. My son has forced me to become a better parent, and it just feels better when I interact with him, but I find it hard to translate it into advice. My first and fourth daughters were wired as tightly as my son, but I didn't do nearly as good a job dealing with them. I have a lot of regrets. :grouphug: to you as you navigate the rocky water.

 

Barb

Edited August 6, 2011 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[itsheresomewhere]

His studies have only been done in peds labs, but I don't think we're getting a full picture. He normally sleeps 12 hours per night and a study is only 6. He sleeps on his belly, but can't in the lab.

 

He had his tonsils and adenoids out when he was 3 based on family history of OSA, his allergies, behavior, asthma, and his need for ear tubes.

 

Sleep studies were started almost a full year after T&A.

 

What is a full 10/20? I have copies of his sleep reports, will I be able to tell if he was watched for seizures?

 

He had one sleep deprived EEG which was normal. He loved the strobe light.

 

Demand an in home sleep study. You go to the office about 6 pm and they put on the monitoring equipment and you go home. You return to the office about 9 am for equipment removal. It is only done for kids and in some places only a hospital can do it. One of the kids in my group did this last year.

 

If they won't do that, then ask for a 24 hour hospital one. One way a friend's neurologist did this was to order a 24 hour in hospital eeg. It worked very well for her as he daughter was discovered to have seizures in her sleep.

[Jan in SC]

Have you been to CHOP with him? It is usually the highest rated children's hospital in the country, especially in neurology. (I might have missed where all you have been.)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

CHOP is where we just started going. The Neuro there was the first to really spend time with him. Took him to the stairwell and actually watched him run up and down a few times. She watched him in the waiting room while he was playing with a little boy. She didn't expect him to be a perfect kid just because he was there. She even laughed at a comment he made, but apologized to me for laughing.

 

When I sent his MRI CD to her, she reviewed it, had their radiologist review it, and even pulled it up to explain what I had questioned (his cerebellum is low, but that was all I was ever told. She explained that it's 4mm low with minimal encroachment, and not a chiari malformation.). Her and the radiologist also tried really hard to find some evidence of brain damage, which they couldn't find. She said he likely has some brain damage, or his brain didn't form perfectly in utero, but there's no way to know short of a biopsy (NOT A CHANCE!), which she wouldn't do with him.

 

While she was amazing, she doesn't have any new ideas. She did recommend he start with a peds PT, not regular. But otherwise, we're on the right path; OT, VT, ST, no regular public school, ignore munchausen's comments, push the sleep team to DEAL with him, and find a more understanding pediatrician.

[Misty]

It sounds like your son has Asperger's just like your other son. Regardless... this behavior is definitely coming from more than just a behavior problem. Try approaching the situation from this point of view.. Would you punish a blind child for not being able to see? Would you slap him for making the same mistakes related to the blindness over and over again? Kids with ASD cannot connect punishment to behavior and they cannot change their behavior based on punitive methods. They also have a very hard time controlling their impulses. Has ASD been ruled out? He needs professional help, medication, diet change, etc. but NOT punishment. Punishment is only going to breed more anger and resentment in this situation.

 

I haven't read all the posts and I'm sure this has been brought up, but I just want to reiterate this.. CHANGE HIS DIET.. My 8yr old daughter with Asperger's acted like that (minus the cursing) for years before we removed gluten and dairy. We never have incidents like this now. Completely different child today.

 

ETA: I just read some of the posts.. Your child has asthma, sleep disorders, behavior issues, history of ear infections, etc. etc. etc.. These are all classic signs of gluten sensitivity. Have you ever tried removing gluten?

Edited August 6, 2011 by Misty

[amo_mea_filiis.]

This isn't my aspie, it's the little man. He was diagnosed with autism, but it wasn't accurate. He's not autistic at all.

 

Things that are easier to relate to his problems, I'd never punish. He has trouble reading, we just work at it. He can't wipe, I wipe. He can't effectively bathe himself, so I do it without complaint. He can't tie his shoes, I get velcro.

 

I do understand that his behavior is related to his brain, but I can't happily sit here and allow him to say "f u, I f'ing hate you you f'ing b!tch, why can't I just f'ing die!" (The death comments started with a behavior therapist because she overreacted and gave it too much attention. He didn't mean "I want to die", he meant "Can you take me away from this person, please!") After comments and he calms down, I make sure he knows I love him and would never hurt him. He'll say he knows and was just mad and/or wanted to be left alone.

[coralloyd]

Oh good greif! I can only tell you what I would do. I would put a little of apple cider vinegar in a syringe and give it to him every time he curses. I would stop cursing if I were you, and apologize for it. I would not allow him to watch anything with cursing. I would leave the store if he acted up put him in his seat belt close the door of the car and walk to were I could see him but he couldn't see me. When he calmed down we would go back into the store and try again. I would let him know that this will happen every time he acts up. I would not use a reward system. I would not get mad at those who are bothered/shocked by his language. You get mad because you are embarrassed. You should be. He learned this language from you. The fact that people say things is your natural consequence. I know I sound harsh, but I think it is what you need to hear.

[Misty]

He's not autistic at all.

 

His behavior indicates otherwise. Sensory issues and behavior problems along with a few repetitive motor movements.. Add on a social issue and you've got Asperger's.. And it sounds to me like he does have social issues if he is cursing at men in the park, etc. How would he get along socially in a school environment?

 

Also, I read that your son has feeding issues.. My daughter could not tolerate any food until she was about 2 1/2 and then she could only tolerate dry/crunchy crackers, etc. She was extremely picky and required feeding therapy. She lived off of crackers and pediasure for a long time. Feeding therapy did nothing but make her gag and puke.

 

After we removed gluten, the feeding issues went away. I would strongly recommend you do a gluten-free trial. We are striving to be old ladies with not regrets, right? Don't leave any stone unturned.

 

And I apologize if I have stepped on your toes. I'm just not seeing that he is 100% neurotypical as far as ASD goes.. I know nothing about CP though so I could be way off base. My apologies if I am.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Oh good greif! I can only tell you what I would do. I would put a little of apple cider vinegar in a syringe and give it to him every time he curses. I would stop cursing if I were you, and apologize for it. I would not allow him to watch anything with cursing. I would leave the store if he acted up put him in his seat belt close the door of the car and walk to were I could see him but he couldn't see me. When he calmed down we would go back into the store and try again. I would let him know that this will happen every time he acts up. I would not use a reward system. I would not get mad at those who are bothered/shocked by his language. You get mad because you are embarrassed. You should be. He learned this language from you. The fact that people say things is your natural consequence. I know I sound harsh, but I think it is what you need to hear.

 

He likes apple cider vinegar! LOL. I do not curse around him. His father ENCOURAGED cursing at a young age, as did that side of ds's family. I'm not claiming he's never heard a foul word come out of mouth, but I'm not the source. He picked up f from his SpEd preschool when he was 3.

 

I don't care what people think of me, nor would I mind comments. But comments from others egg him on and make it worse. I do get upset when certain people say things, like the nurse at the Dr. Again, the PNP was digging into his foot that had a splinter for 2.5 weeks without numbing it at all. The nurse holding his legs wasn't being nice and held his knees wrong (I know how to pin a kid without adding pain).

[mama2cntrykids]

:grouphug: mama. I have a child with Asperger's and I can relate to tough behaviors. He doesn't do what your boy does, but his behaviors can be VERY frustrating none the less.

 

Just wanted you to know you're NOT alone in struggling:grouphug:.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Oh good greif! I can only tell you what I would do. I would put a little of apple cider vinegar in a syringe and give it to him every time he curses. I would stop cursing if I were you, and apologize for it. I would not allow him to watch anything with cursing. I would leave the store if he acted up put him in his seat belt close the door of the car and walk to were I could see him but he couldn't see me. When he calmed down we would go back into the store and try again. I would let him know that this will happen every time he acts up. I would not use a reward system. I would not get mad at those who are bothered/shocked by his language. You get mad because you are embarrassed. You should be. He learned this language from you. The fact that people say things is your natural consequence. I know I sound harsh, but I think it is what you need to hear.

 

 

Her son has possible brain damage and other special needs. This is not a neuro-typical child.

[coralloyd]

 

We get to checkout and he realizes that I'm really not giving in' date=' and he misbehaved, and he'll start cursing. I F****** hate you b****, or anything else he feels like saying. He's already lost the possible store reward. I can't leave and not get what we went in for. I don't mind the embarrassment, but when other people tell him how bad his language is, it eggs him on. He'll get louder and meaner, and will usually say [b']f u[/b] to the person. It doesn't matter if the person is man or woman.

 

me.

 

Well I must have misunderstood. The bolded sounds like you do a fair amount of cursing yourself.

 

ETA: So sorry I thought that said you said that. So very sorry. I really read that wrong.

Edited August 6, 2011 by coralloyd

[amo_mea_filiis.]

His behavior indicates otherwise. Sensory issues and behavior problems along with a few repetitive motor movements.. Add on a social issue and you've got Asperger's.. And it sounds to me like he does have social issues if he is cursing at men in the park, etc. How would he get along socially in a school environment? In school he did ok. He didn't really have friends, and when another kid "made him mad" he would react a lot less violent, but I could tell what happened at school by his behavior off the van.

 

With the CP label in mind, his early history makes sense. I always thought he was autistic, but knew it didn't fit at the same time. On paper (or a forum) it may look like it, but if you were to spend some time with him, you'd agree that ASD isn't really there. However, I do still use things I learned when dealing with him as ASD like picture schedules, "If...Then" statements, etc.

 

It helps that my daughter is aspie, and I'm watching my son pass her socially (very sad in his current state of moods), maturity, and in communication.

 

Also, I read that your son has feeding issues.. My daughter could not tolerate any food until she was about 2 1/2 and then she could only tolerate dry/crunchy crackers, etc. She was extremely picky and required feeding therapy. She lived off of crackers and pediasure for a long time. Feeding therapy did nothing but make her gag and puke.

 

After we removed gluten, the feeding issues went away. I would strongly recommend you do a gluten-free trial. We are striving to be old ladies with not regrets, right? Don't leave any stone unturned. I don't know why I've never done GF with him. I will...now. I have to go to the farmers' market (phone is charging), and food shopping tomorrow.

 

And I apologize if I have stepped on your toes. I'm just not seeing that he is 100% neurotypical as far as ASD goes.. I know nothing about CP though so I could be way off base. My apologies if I am.

 

No toe stepping at all. He's made the progress he's made because of ideas others have given me.

[coralloyd]

I am not innocent by any means. The first two words he ever put together were taught by his genetic contributorotor

 

This also.

[butterflymommy]

Another question- I can never decide about allowance. If I give it, I'd have something meaningful to take away. But if I give it based on work, I don't want to take it away. If I give, I could make a swear jar. If he gets allowance, do I allow him, on a restricted diet to buy candy? I don't want to, but is that fair?

 

I pay my oldest two for various chores around the house, plus some daily babysitting. I have made it clear that polite behavior is part of the job requirement, and that if they are rude or nasty (swearing would fall in this category) they don't get paid. I only have issues with my son being rude. He doesn't swear but he can be incredibly offensive and hostile. I tell him to cut the attitude or he doesn't get paid, even if he's worked hard the whole week.

 

Your son is swearing so much that this exact approach wouldn't work though-- you'd have to break it into half day increments or something.

 

Have you considered paying him simply to stop swearing? I know it may sound crazy to some but financial bribes have worked well with my son (PDD NOS). Money is the only thing that "makes sense" to him sometimes.

 

Your sig says your DS is only 6, so again you would have to simplify the process. Maybe use candy instead of money (I hate candy as much as any mom but I do use it sparingly for bribes and rewards).

 

I wish I had more helpful advice for you. You might want to check out a very inspiration documentary about a mom with 11 special needs adopted kids called "My Flesh and Blood." One of the children is defiant and foul mouthed. That docu gave me a lot of strength to keep going.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

He has heard words from me, but I've apologized and do not curse anymore at all. His father and father's family thinks it's funny and encouraged it when he was there. I wasn't with him. Once I realized he was coming home with a new word on each visit, I stopped it. He is now allowed to hang out with his father under my supervision. His father doesn't have the time or care to go back to court and prevent me from doing so.

 

I've made an effort the past few years to control my own language. Please don't think I had a sailor's mouth, I just didn't censor myself if talking with someone else in front of him. I do now, and have for years.

 

A few other examples; Going to the ER one night for asthma and a group of people were verbally fighting in front of the doors. At the park, the teens and sadly even adults could care less what comes out of their mouths. Picking up stuff at school, even SpEd preschool.

 

ETA: I guess my point is that I no longer curse. He picked it up from many sources so the damage is done.

Edited August 6, 2011 by amo_mea_filiis

[coralloyd]

I edited my one of my last posts, please forgive me.

[butterflymommy]

Question- Should dd consistently defend herself, or do I jump in? I try to get involved before he hits, but he'll still get her like while in the car, or if I'm cooking, in the bathroom, etc.

 

Your DD should not have defend herself, period. I know it's easier said than done. If he even implies getting physical with her, you need to step in. Sibling abuse is a very real probelm and will have lasting effects unless you swoop in to her rescue and defend her *now*. Just because they are siblings doesn't mean it's ok for her to be hit. Again, I KNOW this is all easy for me to say, and you are the one having to deal with the day to day reality, but protecting your daughter is non negotiable.

 

There are 2 local martial arts schools. One has only a female instructor and while I'd prefer him to have males in his life for male things, I can afford for all 3 of us to attend. The other place I can only afford ds, maybe dd, but there are many instructors, a bunch male. I think *I* need the discipline of martial arts! But I'm not sure if I need it more than he should have a male instructor.

I would put off martial arts until his rages and hitting are under control, especially the hitting of his sister. Discuss it with the instructors though. JMO. :grouphug:

[HeidiKC]

I just want to say I'm sorry you're dealing with this. You sound like you're trying to hard! I really hope you can find a solution and some help!

[Impish]

Honestly, I'd enroll your dd in martial arts, and if possible, join yourself without your ds.

 

It would give her the ability to defend herself appropriately, instead of kind of being at his mercy, if that makes sense. Same for you.

 

Plus, (and I may be totally off, forgive me) it sounds as though he requires a lot of your time and attention. It may be very beneficial to your dd to get a 'break' from him, doing something just for her.

[Coffeetime]

:grouphug:

 

I don't have any experience with this or advice to share. I just wanted to reiterate that good, professional help is needed and I truly hope and pray that you are able to find it. It has to be so frustrating to be trying so hard and yet unable to figure out what to do. I know all of us feel this to some extent with our children- but you have definitely been given more than your share to deal with. My heart just hurts for you. You sound like an amazing mama. Stay strong!

 

:grouphug:

Edited August 6, 2011 by Coffeetime

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I edited my one of my last posts, please forgive me.

 

Was never mad or upset. All is well. :001_smile:

[MamaSheep]

My son was like that when he was six too. Reward systems of various kinds helped a little. Medication helped a little. But he was still completely out of control. Punishment of any kind usually just made it worse. Often MUCH worse. We had a psychologist who worked and worked and worked with him on "anger management" without any discernable improvement whatsoever. In fact, it mostly seemed to make him feel like he was "bad" and no matter how hard he tried he couldn't be "good" so why even try. His file from school was cram-packed with "incident reports" about his violence and aggression.

 

What finally really made the difference was when I quit listening to the psychologist and started treating his issues as anxiety and defensiveness rather than as anger and aggression. Some of the things you've said make me think this could be what's going on with your son too. Like that it mostly happens when he wants to get home, get away. Many years later I learned that many children, but especially boys, express anxiety as anger and agression. Often what you're looking at is a child who is so anxious that the fight/flight/freeze survival instinct has kicked in. Often with girls they do the "flight" or "freeze" options as their default survival tactic, and we say they're "shy" (when actually they're terrified). If they can't get away from the stressor they might cry and run to mommy for comfort and protection, or try to hide, or they might sort of withdraw into themselves and just stand there trembling. With boys, though, its very common for their system to default to the "fight" option. When their system perceives a threat they don't instinctively run away, they instinctively switch into "kill" mode. But it's not because they're "angry", it's an instinctive reaction to fear. That's why punishments and threats of punishments only make it worse--they increase the anxiety, and pump more adrenaline into that "fight" response, and it gets even harder for them to control their own behavior.

 

The fight/flight/freeze response is handled by the amygdala in the brain, not the cortex. The cortex is where a child can process things like "if-then" rewards and punishments, form intentions, and follow through on plans. But when the f/f/f repsonse is triggered, the cortex pretty much goes dead, and the amygdala flares up. The amygdala is a very basic, instinctive part of the brain that works with emotion, and emotional memory, and basic survival functions. It literally cannot process things like "if you swear you'll lose your quarters". It's just not constructed to handle that kind of thinking. It handles things like, "danger--fight or you will die". The cursing could well be a verbal manifestation of "fight". It was for my son--though he only knew one swear word, so his "fight" words were a little less disturbing (I hate you, you're the worst mom in the world, I wish you would walk in front of a bus and die, I wish I had never been born, you stink, you're fat--that sort of thing). If this IS what's going on with him, it's important that you understand that it's not personal. He is literally not rational when this is happening, and that trying to negotiate with him is only going to stress him out further and make it more intense and last longer. Reacting to his "aggression" with your own aggression stimulates that "fight" instinct even more. I know it seems like the best way to deal with what looks like a power struggle is to assert your authority and make sure he knows you have the power, but IF this is extreme anxiety being expressed as aggression then that will actually make it worse because his amygdala will perceive you as a threat and will increase the fight response. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but IF this is what's going on, the best way to handle it is to be protective and soothing toward him when he acts that way. Help his emotional/instinctive amygdala understand that you are a friend, not a foe, and that you will protect him from whatever "threat" his amygdala is perceiving (even if it seems like an irrational reaction--the amygdala doesn't process things rationally, just knee-jerk emotionally). Don't talk too much, though, when the meltdown is in progress. "Talk" to the emotional brain with whatever your son finds soothing--and it's different from one child to another. My son HATES to be touched when he's struggling to get control of himself, and any sort of touch is like fire in the powder keg, so we are very hands-off with him (unless he's going to hurt himself or someone else, in which case we use the minimum restraint that will keep everyone safe). My friend's son who has these kinds of issues finds gentle touches very soothing, so she will rub his back, pat his arms, hug him tightly, etc. to help him calm down. But do whatever YOUR son finds comforting at a primal, gut level. Don't talk about the situation until everyone has calmed down and it's all over with and you've both had a chance to regroup. Then strategize how to handle the situation if it arises again.

 

To me, the fact that he was able to step down from physical violence to verbal abuse is an indication that he WANTS to get control and CAN make progress in the right direction. Of course verbal abuse is NOT acceptable behavior, but it is a babystep in the right direction. Figure out what the next babystep could be (maybe using other mean words instead of actual curse words?) and start rewarding him when he even sort of succeeds at that babystep, rather than only rewarding him for staying calm. He might literally not be able to stay calm (yet)--that might be asking the impossible. Maybe you could reward him for eliminating ONE swear word. If he can get all the way through the store without saying the "f" word in any form, he can have his quarters. Instead of asking him to leap the entire chasm between physically violent reactions to complete calm and control, help him build a bridge, one plank at a time. Work on babysteps with the paradigm in mind that he WANTS to be good, but staying in control is a SKILL he needs to develop and he needs to be taught that control one manageable little bit at a time.

 

Also, the fact that it's meaningful to him that you're impressed by his good behavior when you leave him with his sister for an hour is an indicator that he WANTS to be good, and he WANTS to please you. That's a good sign.

 

If this is what's going on with him--and I would say that if rewards and punishments are not having much of any impact it very well could be--it will help to talk in advance about what he can do if he starts feeling anxious. The more options he has for coping, the more successful he will be. A book that might be really helpful for the two of you is The Incredible 5-Point Scale. It's technically for kids on the autism spectrum, but the general principles would apply to any anxious child and I think you might find them very useful.

 

Other books that I would HIGHLY recommend would be Taming the Spirited Child and The Explosive Child.