Is Self-Sufficiency Possible?

[PIE!]

In about two years we will be moving from an urban setting out to rural America. DH and I have always dreamed of being self-sufficient. We love working hard and doing things ourselves. The Little House books make me long for “the good old days.†I admit that when I’m having a bad day I’ll peruse “The Backyard Homestead†and it will always cheer me up. We’ve got a small garden now, and when we move to the country we’re planning on starting small and working our way up to living off our land as much as we can.

 

But – is it really possible to be self-sufficient? I know there will be start-up costs, but after that can you really keep going by yourself? For example, our first livestock will probably be chickens. I know there will be the cost of coop materials and buying the initial chicks. But do you have to buy their food or can let them dig up bugs and grow the rest yourself practically? A couple of dairy goats sound nice – but again, do we REALLY have to KEEP putting money into them (on feed etc.) in order to get good milk, or can we manage that somehow ourselves?

 

It just seems to me from what I’ve read that most people who love self-sufficiency aren’t really self-sufficient. Rather than depending on the store for their eggs, they depend on the store for chicken food. Or rather than depending on the store for tomatoes, they depend on the store for tomato seeds or sets.

 

Can you do it all on your own? Or are those days long gone?

[Onceuponatime]

It might be possible, if you worked from sunup to sundown 6 days a week. Even in "Little House" books, Pa had to buy tools and seed, and barter for services.

 

It depends on what you mean by self sufficiency.

[Audrey]

Yes. It is possible. However, if your idea of self-sufficient comes from Little House on the Prairie, you will experience a harsh awakening.

 

If you are truly interested, there are many good resources online, including forums/online communities for people who are self-sufficient right now and those trying to get there. There is also a wealth of helpful books. Storey is a publisher who produces books on a huge variety of subject helpful to homesteaders.

 

To be truly self-sufficient, you would also need to look into producing your own power. That is often the last step for people, and most never get to that stage. It isn't impossible, but it is expensive and can be tricky to accomplish.

 

As for livestock... I'm sorry, but yes... they have to be fed, watered and cared for every. single. day. No exceptions. Whether you can produce enough to feed them all will depend on your fields and your ability to reap a good crop (which itself is dependent on about 1,000 things that are mostly out of your control).

 

Livestock are expensive to keep. There are times when the cost of keeping them might even outweigh the cost of buying their products elsewhere. Farming carries no guarantees. Generally, the larger the animal, the more expensive it is to keep. You must keep on top of their health and make sure they get the proper diet. If you do not, they will not produce well, or they will die, or they will die and infect all the rest of your stock.

 

To be honest, I never, ever recommend people to "move to the country and be self-sufficient." I have seen too many people come out here with that in mind, only to become horribly bitter and then leave, often after the marriage or family completely disintegrates. It can be tough on a marriage and family.

 

That said, take the time you have now to do a lot of research, read a lot of books and talk to a lot of homesteaders. Go in with your eyes wide open and don't promise yourself anything. Nature has a way of laughing at well-made plans. Try what you want to try, but don't rely on it. Case in point... we've been farming all our married life and have been self-sufficient in many ways. This year, the garden is underproducing drastically. I'm going to have to buy produce that I've not bought in 12 years. I'm reeling at the cost of things, but I know every year that I cannot rely on the garden to feed us. That's why we make contingency plans (and funds). There are no guarantees. We don't expect anything, so on the occasions we don't get anything, at least we're not disappointed.

[kiana]

You'll always have *some* input. Pa Ingalls had some input too -- he didn't make his own gun (although he did make his own bullets), his own axe, etc. Ma Ingalls bought cloth from the store to make clothes.

 

The amount of feed you need to put into your livestock depends on what you have or can grow. Chickens eat bugs and stuff but will also completely destroy a garden. They do very well on a nice run and table scraps though.

 

Goats will get through almost any fence you can imagine and are even better at destroying gardens than chickens. They do especially well on browse but do need some higher-energy food if you're going to milk them. You can grow grains to feed them though.

 

Both of these, though, will need some external input to maintain population. With chicks, you're going to need to buy some every few years or allow yours to set and raise chicks (or get an incubator), which will cut down a bit on your eggs. With goats, your ladies will need a tryst with a male goat in order to lactate, which will necessitate either purchasing one or yearly visits to someone else's. Even if you purchase one, you'll run into the same issue with his daughters.

[kiana]

To be honest, I never, ever recommend people to "move to the country and be self-sufficient." I have seen too many people come out here with that in mind, only to become horribly bitter and then leave, often after the marriage or family completely disintegrates. It can be tough on a marriage and family.

 

Audrey said a lot of other very sensible things, but this is the one I wanted to comment on. Your goal shouldn't be complete self-sufficiency. It's unattainable and will just make you feel crappy about not meeting it. Your goal should be to be a little more sustainable and self-sufficient every year.

[regentrude]

It depends on your definition of "self-sufficient". You are not going to be able to grow, or build from natural materials found on your property, a computer, a phone, a refrigerator or a car- so unless you want to live an 18th century life style, you will have to compromise to some degree.

[Jyniffrec]

We gave it a go for a while but realized that we were missing one important ingredient - community. We had no one to support us and I think that is important. We live in town now and are doing much better as far as making things from scratch, working the garden (community garden) and exercise. We buy as much as we can locally from the farmers who are doing what they do well and in that they have support and relationships with their friends/customers.

 

It is hard work. I'm certainly not going to say you shouldn't try it, but for the most part we need each other.

 

As far as the goats and the chickens go, we needed to bring food in for them. We gave the chickens the extra cow's milk and they picked through the cow's manure for undigested grains and bugs. It worked really well but we still bought them rye (cheapest grain at the time and good for them). And it is a good idea to give the cow/goat a reason to cooperate when you are milking them, hence a small amount of grain at milking time. You might try buying the grain locally. It is hard to find but there are still some local farmers doing it, at least there are here.

 

I say if it is what you really want then go for it! HTH!

[prairiewindmomma]

Been reading the Mother Earth news?

 

I don't think true self-sufficiency is possible. Even if the zombie wars were to happen, and society ended, you're still going to have people who need antibiotics or someone to throw clay pots for new dishes or dig salt from a mine or whatever.

 

Do I think that you can provide the majority of your food needs? Possibly, but it's most likely not cost efficient to do so and it is a TON of work. You are also at the mercy of weather. This year, most of my garden and berry bushes have died from a REALLY hard and long heatwave. Even the farmers in our area have given up on their crops. :( Because hay production was way down, farmers are going to be either purchasing a lot more grain & hay for this winter or they're going to be slaughtering some of their herds.

 

Do one thing at a time...plant your fruit trees the first year and get them going. Work on amending your garden soil that year so you can plant the next. Get your chickens the third year.... do it bit by bit, you can do something, but not everything.

 

(And, if you're like us, you might discover you're allergic to animals, hay, and most weeds. Kinda ended our homesteading dream in a hurry.)

[Ria]

LOL. Mother Earth News, indeed.

 

My neighbor decided that she needs to be self-sufficient, mostly from reading MEN. She grows a huge garden, much of which becomes overgrown or rots because she doesn't have the time or means to preserve/process it. To deter deer she pours human urine around the garden.

 

She decided to get 7 chickens. So far she's spent almost $3000 on the coop, enclosure, electric (lights for the winter so they'll keep laying), water heaters (so the water doesn't freeze in the winter), feed...I'm just saying that those are some mighty expensive eggs she's got there. The idea of letting the hens free roam ended when they ruined the garden; foxes and owls are also an issue.

 

Self-sufficiency is a great idea, but I honestly don't think it's realistic for the majority of people used to the Western lifestyle.

[LibraryLover]

We are nowhere near ss, but we do a lot. Large garden, hens, meat birds etc. Maybe you can't tell by my post count, but there is a lot of work to do. ;) There is always some project or other on the property, and it's not a very large piece of land. If this was our liveihood, we'd be in big trouble. It costs a lot to raise animals, and only so many folks are willing to pay $15+ for an organic, pastured bird.

 

I supposed if we had no children, no other bills, no mortgage etc we might swing it. :lol: Until we were too old to clean the barn, chase down birds, plant, weed, compost, can etc. My kids also work really hard here; we're a close family and enjoy being together working, but at least one is convinced there is no way on earth they would take on a property like this as an adult. Dc is glad to have had the experience, but doesn't want it as a lifestyle.

Edited August 4, 2011 by LibraryLover

[PIE!]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. They were all very helpful!

 

We're not moving to the country to become self-sufficient - we'll be moving because that's where DH's job will take us. We love the idea of taking care of ourselves - but have no misconceptions that it would be easy, or even practical beyond a certain point.

 

For us - we are planning to start very small, and only add on one thing at a time depending on what we think we can handle. I would LOVE to be able to be completely self sufficient - but I doubt we'll get that far, and community is hugely important. We certainly can't make EVERYTHING ourselves.

 

I'm just curious mostly about what I guess are two different issues.

 

1. Is it possible to keep the cost down after the initial start-up costs of a project - like growing chicken feed rather than buying it, or getting enough seeds from my garden last year so I don't need to buy any for this year.

 

and

 

2. Are there super-people out there who really can do it all?

[TracyP]

Audrey said a lot of other very sensible things, but this is the one I wanted to comment on. Your goal shouldn't be complete self-sufficiency. It's unattainable and will just make you feel crappy about not meeting it. Your goal should be to be a little more sustainable and self-sufficient every year.

:iagree:

[JFSinIL]

http://www.countrysidemag.com/

 

Check their back issues, too. Here is just one of their many useful articles: http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/84/84-1/J_D_Belanger.html

[livingnlearning]

You can easily be a lot more self-sufficient than most people.

 

It doesn't take all that much to grow some grain for chickens and goats, I know a lot of gardeners on the idig forums that grow their own grain for their own chickens. We live next door to a barley field and there is enough scrap there and from our kitchen/garden/milk cow to feed our 15-20 hens without needing to always purchase food for them.

 

I have two goats that are getting fat on weeds in a woven wire pasture, not a big deal. Goats are about the most efficient feed converters out there and they really are not that hard to keep.

 

We built our chicken coop for free-it's made out of pallets and ding/dent t1-11 that we got for free from the generous guy in the lumberyard that was trying to clear some scrap out. got some free tin roofing out of the paper and a box of screws from an auction box.

 

I guess what I'm saying is it takes a lot of common sense and as much know-how as you can muster in order to do it. You have to be happy with a free little cobbled up coop and not go down to Home Depot and purchase all new items to build it. You have to know that chickens don't need heat in the winter and that you don't need to run power and water to the coop. lol

 

Concessions, compromises. Using second-hand materials and making it work... knowing what you can do yourself and knowing that no family is an island, you are going to need your neighbors and community but you can do a lot of things for yourself.

 

We cook and heat our house with a cookstove but we don't go out and buy cords of firewood-we work a deal with a local saw yard and get slab wood for the stove. It's practically free for us ($50/year to heat our house and cook) and our house furnace hasn't been on in nearly nine years-but not many people would think of that or want to deal with the bark-on slab wood. We rigged up our own solar hot water with irrigation pipe that we got for $1 (one dollar) at an auction-threw it on the roof of the house and for half the year we wait until midday to use hot water, no biggie for us but lots of people can't fathom not having endless hot water in the middle of the night. We don't HAVE to do those things but we know how and if we can live on the cheap or self-sufficiently we do.

 

It's not always easy but if you have a go-with-the-flow personality and don't mind the steep learning curve and plunking away at things year after year to learn then it's fun and rewarding to do the best you can.

[livingnlearning]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. They were all very helpful!

 

We're not moving to the country to become self-sufficient - we'll be moving because that's where DH's job will take us. We love the idea of taking care of ourselves - but have no misconceptions that it would be easy, or even practical beyond a certain point.

 

For us - we are planning to start very small, and only add on one thing at a time depending on what we think we can handle. I would LOVE to be able to be completely self sufficient - but I doubt we'll get that far, and community is hugely important. We certainly can't make EVERYTHING ourselves.

 

I'm just curious mostly about what I guess are two different issues.

 

1. Is it possible to keep the cost down after the initial start-up costs of a project - like growing chicken feed rather than buying it, or getting enough seeds from my garden last year so I don't need to buy any for this year.

 

and

 

2. Are there super-people out there who really can do it all?

 

1) yes, it is possible. quite possible. we're doing it on a daily basis! free materials on craigslist, garage sale leftovers, having junk heaps of parts and useful things that you will use "someday" and not mind the eye sore until that day comes.

 

2) some come awfully close but no, I don't think anyone can do it all completely self-sufficiently. I think you just do what you can and concede that some things you can't! Can you provide most of your own food, energy and provide for yourself on a shoestring? yep if you don't mind making some concessions! :)

[TracyP]

 

1. Is it possible to keep the cost down after the initial start-up costs of a project - like growing chicken feed rather than buying it, or getting enough seeds from my garden last year so I don't need to buy any for this year.

 

 

It is possible to keep the costs down but you must be careful to not let those initial costs eat you alive. Be creative, don't buy new (find a rundown farm and ask if you can rummage through their barns in addition to livingnlearnings ideas) and it is possible.

 

 

2. Are there super-people out there who really can do it all?

 

Do you mean 100% self sustainability? I have known 1 person in my life. He was a single man who lived in a trailer in the woods with no plumbing or electricity. He illegally trapped his food and would sell wild blueberries he picked and mow lawns to cover his few costs. His only vehicle was a motorcylce. (which meant he didn't leave home during the winter here in MN) IOW, I don't think so.

[LibraryLover]

I always suggest that folks try to do as much as they can where they are. Plant food in pots and pallets. If your town allows hens (and the city bordering my town does) get 3 or 4 and see how it goes. Maybe try raising rabbits. They are very quiet, and if you're ok with eating bunnies, they are about the cheapest meat one can raise. I have a city friend...and I mean city...right in the thick of it, traffic, 4 way stop light intersection in front of her house, sirens and ambulances...the whole 9 yards...who raises hens (she cannot have roos but does buy or trade for fertile eggs) and who turned her front yard into quite a stellar garden.

 

It's not a bad way to start. There are lots of articles and blogs about Urban Gardening.

[Shifra]

To be honest, I never, ever recommend people to "move to the country and be self-sufficient." I have seen too many people come out here with that in mind, only to become horribly bitter and then leave, often after the marriage or family completely disintegrates. It can be tough on a marriage and family.

 

I heard on the radio Melissa Coleman speak about her book This Life Is in Your Hands: One Dream, Sixty Acres, and a Family Undone, and while I have not yet read the book, Ms. Coleman does indicate that her parents' desire for extreme self-sufficiency was partly responsible for the undoing of their marriage. Her father, by the way, is the gardening expert Eliot Coleman.

[amy g.]

We do not strive for self-sufficiency, but for interdependence. My neighbor has plenty of land/grass but no children left at home to help with chores.

 

We bottle feed calves for both families, then let them grass finish on their property, and we both get our own fresh beef.

 

We don't have a tractor, but Miss Good helps some elderly neighbors with their animals, in exchange for borrowing theirs.

 

My friend has a horse trailer with nowhere to park it, so I let her keep it here, and I don't have to buy my own.

 

The upfront costs of farming can be staggering-land, fencing, breeding stock, housing, feed, livestock protection, medicine for emergencies just to name a few.

 

One decision Miss Good made when she was only 12 was to buy the VERY BEST animal genetics she can find. This has really paid off for her. While the market for family milkers may be down, there are always people willing to pay top dollar for winning show animals. Her goats pay their own feed bill with kid sales. The cows...not so much, but we have been keeping the calves, so it may be a wash. We paid $250 a cow for breedings to a really nice bull, but this year, we are working on a deal to trade some Mini Nubian goats for our own bull out of the one we admire.

 

Chickens can easily feed themselves. Pigs can be raised on whey and pasture. The compost from the animals will grow a large organic garden.

 

Expect to work 12 hour days, and expect everyone to tell you that you are crazy.

[Carrie12345]

I've actually been designing my dream homestead (read: unlimited budget) just for fun. Even with all the money in the world, there are still aspects I'd want/need to "outsource" whether by pay or trade.

 

I am not interested in making all of our own clothes. A few special pieces here and there, sure. But I'd be hitting up Target/Amazon for 99.9% of our clothing.

 

I am not interested in butchering animals. I'm fairly confident that I could adjust to killing and dressing chickens, but the only way I could butcher a cow or pig would be post-apocalypse and the threat of starvation... and even that is questionable.

 

I don't want to have to know EVERYTHING there is to know about animals. Basic midwifery, okay. Nutrition, grooming, and other general tasks, okay. But I want a vet for injuries and illness.

 

I'm happy to eat MOSTLY seasonal, but not completely. I want my bananas, but I have no desire to live anywhere conducive to growing bananas. I'd also prefer to buy wheat/wheat berries and hay than deal with that myself, when I could focus on the more interesting aspects of homesteading.

 

I also love Charmin Basic, and don't want to give that up. ;)

I'd rather have someone come pump my septic than deal with composting toilets.

And I'd want to have a drilled well to serve most of my house, with alternates for crops and animals. I'm very attached to my drilled well, even if that means occasional maintenance from outside parties.

[PIE!]

I always suggest that folks try to do as much as they can where they are. Plant food in pots and pallets. If your town allows hens (and the city bordering my town does) get 3 or 4 and see how it goes. Maybe try raising rabbits. They are very quiet, and if you're ok with eating bunnies, they are about the cheapest meat one can raise. I have a city friend...and I mean city...right in the thick of it, traffic, 4 way stop light intersection in front of her house, sirens and ambulances...the whole 9 yards...who raises hens (she cannot have roos but does buy or trade for fertile eggs) and who turned her front yard into quite a stellar garden.

 

It's not a bad way to start. There are lots of articles and blogs about Urban Gardening.

 

Thanks! Our city codes only allow for two hens - and I think some of our neighbors would be bothered if we had them. But we are trying as much now as we think prudent - mostly working on learning to garden and compost well. Maybe we'll do rabbits while we're still in the city - I know DH wants to try.

 

You can easily be a lot more self-sufficient than most people.

 

It doesn't take all that much to grow some grain for chickens and goats, I know a lot of gardeners on the idig forums that grow their own grain for their own chickens. We live next door to a barley field and there is enough scrap there and from our kitchen/garden/milk cow to feed our 15-20 hens without needing to always purchase food for them.

 

I have two goats that are getting fat on weeds in a woven wire pasture, not a big deal. Goats are about the most efficient feed converters out there and they really are not that hard to keep.

 

We built our chicken coop for free-it's made out of pallets and ding/dent t1-11 that we got for free from the generous guy in the lumberyard that was trying to clear some scrap out. got some free tin roofing out of the paper and a box of screws from an auction box.

 

I guess what I'm saying is it takes a lot of common sense and as much know-how as you can muster in order to do it. You have to be happy with a free little cobbled up coop and not go down to Home Depot and purchase all new items to build it. You have to know that chickens don't need heat in the winter and that you don't need to run power and water to the coop. lol

 

Concessions, compromises. Using second-hand materials and making it work... knowing what you can do yourself and knowing that no family is an island, you are going to need your neighbors and community but you can do a lot of things for yourself.

 

We cook and heat our house with a cookstove but we don't go out and buy cords of firewood-we work a deal with a local saw yard and get slab wood for the stove. It's practically free for us ($50/year to heat our house and cook) and our house furnace hasn't been on in nearly nine years-but not many people would think of that or want to deal with the bark-on slab wood. We rigged up our own solar hot water with irrigation pipe that we got for $1 (one dollar) at an auction-threw it on the roof of the house and for half the year we wait until midday to use hot water, no biggie for us but lots of people can't fathom not having endless hot water in the middle of the night. We don't HAVE to do those things but we know how and if we can live on the cheap or self-sufficiently we do.

 

It's not always easy but if you have a go-with-the-flow personality and don't mind the steep learning curve and plunking away at things year after year to learn then it's fun and rewarding to do the best you can.

 

That's really the sort of thing we're thinking of. We're pretty adaptable people (while living abroad we went without hot water for three years, and we figured out how to make things work). We LOVE free craigslist and freecycle - and are more than happy to just make do with what we can get.

 

About your chicken coop - I know they don't need a heater (or plumbing ;))- but did you insulate it? Everything I've ready says you need a fancy insulated coop to have chickens in the winter.

 

And how did you get your know-how?

 

I heard on the radio Melissa Coleman speak about her book This Life Is in Your Hands: One Dream, Sixty Acres, and a Family Undone, and while I have not yet read the book, Ms. Coleman does indicate that her parents' desire for extreme self-sufficiency was partly responsible for the undoing of their marriage. Her father, by the way, is the gardening expert Eliot Coleman.

 

YIKES! We are very much NOT going to be extreme in this regards. What a sad way to ruin a marriage! We're not looking to be farmers and make a profit - just to take care of a lot of our family's own needs. And only as far as it is practical.

[amy g.]

I forgot to mention that you do not need to buy seeds every year. I use heirloom seeds, and while I know how to save them from year to year, I take shortcuts.

 

For example I bury the last tomato of the season at the base of the dead plant, at exactly the right time the next year, plenty of transplanable seedlings appear.

 

I feed melon and pumpkin rinds and seeds to the pig. when he goes to the butcher, his pen is preplowed, preseeded, and prefertilized.

 

My friend calls them "Pig-butt melons" and I just laugh.

[TracyP]

 

For example I bury the last tomato of the season at the base of the dead plant, at exactly the right time the next year, plenty of transplanable seedlings appear.

 

 

I have never heard of this. Will this work in a cold climate? How deep do you bury it?

[Shifra]

I always suggest that folks try to do as much as they can where they are. Plant food in pots and pallets. If your town allows hens (and the city bordering my town does) get 3 or 4 and see how it goes. Maybe try raising rabbits. They are very quiet, and if you're ok with eating bunnies, they are about the cheapest meat one can raise. I have a city friend...and I mean city...right in the thick of it, traffic, 4 way stop light intersection in front of her house, sirens and ambulances...the whole 9 yards...who raises hens (she cannot have roos but does buy or trade for fertile eggs) and who turned her front yard into quite a stellar garden.

 

It's not a bad way to start. There are lots of articles and blogs about Urban Gardening.

 

I lived until last year in a city town home, and was able to produce an enormous amount of food for the little space we had for gardening. Not enough to live on, but enough to reduce the grocery bill in the summer and fall significantly (we live in Texas where the growing season goes until November). Our best purchase? A timer for the water hose attached to a soaker hose so that way it would water the garden automatically. They are only about $25 at Walmart, and will save your crop if you forget to water the plants. Many people also find it helpful to have a gas or electric tiller (otherwise you will have to spade your garden by hand--it's loads of work! or hire someone to till your ground). There's also container gardening, too.

 

I agree with LibraryLover, get your feet wet with a really big garden and whatever livestock you can handle and/or are allowed to have in your location.

[MaryE]

I'm part of a really good forum called homesteadingtoday.com. Lots of useful information and helpful folk. Wide range of self-sufficiency levels. One man lives in NYC, another woman "homesteads" her 35x90' city lot...all the way up to those with lots of acreage, off grid, etc. It's a good way to see all the different ways you can increase your self-sufficiency. But be forewarned...it's one of those addictive sites where you can sit and fritter away hours of time reading;)

[jenangelcat]

That's our goal. Obviously not total self sufficiency as I don't think it's possible but more than we were when we lived in a city. We moved to Nova Scotia last year to to do this with absolutely no experience beyond our backyard garden and house reno work.

 

Fortunately I had been reading about homesteading for years and we are extremely fast learners. A year later we have more animals than we can count (rabbits, geese, ducks, chickens, pigs, goats, quail, turkeys) and a massive market garden. We want to produce most of our own food. We don't have enough acreage (4) for grain production but we can grow fruit and veg and raise meat. Dh just butchered 45 chickens yesterday and we did a pig over the winter.

 

We've met a lot of people that have moved here with the same plan. Most are just starting out. Several of the people who have been living here longer gave up on their plans but are still happy to be living rural.

 

You have to be a handy or else able to afford to pay a handyman. Our house is 150 years old and it's needs a decent amount of reno that dh will be doing himself. Jobs are often scarce in rural areas so most people will have to adjust their lifestyle. Dh has a full-time job off the farm making about half as much as we were before. We love it here though. One of the biggest worries was the social aspect as my husband is very outgoing but we've made more friends here than anywhere else we've lived.

 

My blog is in the siggie below. We moved in on July 29th 2010 if you want to check it out.

[amy g.]

I just made it up because I'm lazy. I don't know if it would work in a cold climate because I've never lived in one, but it sure is worth trying. I barely cover it with compost, and don't water or anything.

[TracyP]

I just made it up because I'm lazy. I don't know if it would work in a cold climate because I've never lived in one, but it sure is worth trying. I barely cover it with compost, and don't water or anything.

Thanks, couldn't hurt to try.

[WishboneDawn]

To be honest, I never, ever recommend people to "move to the country and be self-sufficient." I have seen too many people come out here with that in mind, only to become horribly bitter and then leave, often after the marriage or family completely disintegrates. It can be tough on a marriage and family.

 

 

And I tend to find that the real satisfaction and joy of country living sin't self-sufficiency, it's that web of true inter-dependency you build with real neighbours rather then the utter dependancy on faceless businesses who's only currency is cash.

 

We're raising meat chickens and I'll have laying chicks and a few pullets in a few weeks and we'll be working on a garden next year and we've got bigger plans and yes, we're becoming more self-reliant but at the same time we're building relationships with local businesses and neighbours we can barter and trade with. We're not going to become self-sufficient, we're simply shifting our dependancy to more equal relationships that benefit our neighbours more directly.

[WishboneDawn]

LOL. Mother Earth News, indeed.

 

I honestly have no use for that magazine. It's not what it was. It's sort of Martha Stewart dream material. Backwoods Home is much better (I tend to ignore much of the political stuff though :))along with some other smaller publications.

 

My neighbor decided that she needs to be self-sufficient, mostly from reading MEN. She grows a huge garden, much of which becomes overgrown or rots because she doesn't have the time or means to preserve/process it. To deter deer she pours human urine around the garden.

 

 

Eww.

 

She decided to get 7 chickens. So far she's spent almost $3000 on the coop, enclosure, electric (lights for the winter so they'll keep laying), water heaters (so the water doesn't freeze in the winter), feed...I'm just saying that those are some mighty expensive eggs she's got there. The idea of letting the hens free roam ended when they ruined the garden; foxes and owls are also an issue.

 

Our meaties are currently in a chain link dog run we got used for $150. It's got a tarp roof and we've leaned old plywood up against a couple of sides to give them shelter from the wind and rain. When the layers come we'll have a coop built of leftover lumber and such that family and friends have given us.

 

None of it will be pretty be then doing these things with an eye to keeping them sustainable and affordable often isn't.

 

$3000. Holy cow.

[WishboneDawn]

About your chicken coop - I know they don't need a heater (or plumbing ;))- but did you insulate it? Everything I've ready says you need a fancy insulated coop to have chickens in the winter.

 

I'm in Nova Scotia but we get reasonably cold winters here and we're not planning on insulating the coop. Chickens generate a LOT of heat on their own, they don't need a lot of help there. :) Just pick breeds that are cold hardy. What's really important is eliminating drafts and proper ventilation. Backyardchickens.com is a great resource!

[Aelwydd]

My "dream" is to have a cottage in the country (in Canada), and a tiny condo in a city (somewhere down south). Spend spring, summer, and early fall in the country, and winter in the city. Best of both worlds.

 

In the cottage, I'd love to have just enough land to have a decent garden, some chickens, and a few goats. I don't aim to replace everything in our diet by what we grow or raise, but to supplement a good portion of it. I'd be happy with 35-45%. For meat, I'd prefer hunting wild game and fishing.

 

Beef and pork, I have no interest in raising, especially pork, because of expense, hygiene and cross-contamination issues (risk of porcine viruses infecting humans, for example). So, I'm fine with eliminating most of these meats from our diets. Occasional purchases from a local farm or butcher are fine.

 

Grains, rice, etc. I would continue to purchase.

 

For energy, I'd love to totally be off the grid, but that is complicated. Solar panels can provide a lot of energy, but obviously, only when the sun's shining. A wind or water mill would be awesome, but expensive. Wind doesn't always blow either, and the water can freeze. Generators usually require diesel or similar fuel. Not sure about battery stores.

[livingnlearning]

Nope, no insulation in the chicken coop. :) I've thought about putting some in just to pamper the girls but the mice would just live in it. We did put one clear span of plastic roofing in the roof and that allows natural daylight and warms it during the day. I'm in south central Montana and we usually get at least a week of -30 temps and the chickens are fine. My BIL has open windows in his chicken coop so the birds are basically outside and they do fine. Our turkeys free ranged it all winter and they roosted on the tops of the shelters in those -30 degree blizzards.

 

You can house chickens in just about anything, they just want to be up off the ground on a roost and safe. People overthink chickens a lot. :D

 

My husband grew up poor in the country so he's learned a ton of tricks. I grew up in the country and have been intrigued with farming and country living my entire life-I've been learning from DH and family, friends, books, websites. I read a lot of history and learn from them, I know a lot of old folks that made it through the Depression and I learn from them. I learned from Farmer Boy that cows can eat pumpkins and it's knowledge we used here! Backwoods Home is a good resource... If it's something you're intrigued with your natural curiousity will keep you learning!

 

One of my favorite times of the year is fall when harvesting and hunting and canning is all going on and the cold nights mean we're using Chief our old woodstove again... I sit beside the cookstove on my computer and read blogs and homesteading and gardening websites and learn learn learn....

[WishboneDawn]

My "dream" is to have a cottage in the country (in Nova Scotia),

 

Fixed that for you. :D

[Aelwydd]

Fixed that for you. :D

 

 

LOL. ;)

[Denise in Florida]

Audrey said a lot of other very sensible things, but this is the one I wanted to comment on. Your goal shouldn't be complete self-sufficiency. It's unattainable and will just make you feel crappy about not meeting it. Your goal should be to be a little more sustainable and self-sufficient every year.

:iagree::iagree:

This is great advice. I have being doing something like this in town (large lot, no HOA). I started with a row of black berries. Then I added a compost pile and one 4' x 4' raised bed garden. Last spring I added 3 chickens and a hay bale garden. I have also started cooking more from scratch, growing my own herbs, freezing meal components and shopping at the farmer's market.

 

Results so far:

 

The garden bed was a big success (tomatoes, basil, bell pepper)

The berries are so-so, the birds beat me to them. :glare:

Compost has reduced my food waste but I don't manage the pile as well as I should. That is a goal for next year.

Chickens - I loved them, I loved the eggs, I took one to show at the county fair. downside: They caused my dh incredible stress - not sure why, I did all the work but he worried so much about the noise and getting chicken-sitters when we travel that I ended up giving them to a friend. :crying:

 

Next year I plan to add:

 

Another raised bed or two

A strawberry 3 tier planter

At least 2 worm bins

Possibly a bee hive (?????) - again I don't want to stress out dh

 

Related:

 

I have also taken over a lot of the household repairs, pool maintenance and vehicle upkeep that I used to hire someone to do.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Denise in Florida

[Mama Geek]

In about two years we will be moving from an urban setting out to rural America. DH and I have always dreamed of being self-sufficient. We love working hard and doing things ourselves. The Little House books make me long for “the good old days.†I admit that when I’m having a bad day I’ll peruse “The Backyard Homestead†and it will always cheer me up. We’ve got a small garden now, and when we move to the country we’re planning on starting small and working our way up to living off our land as much as we can.

 

But – is it really possible to be self-sufficient? I know there will be start-up costs, but after that can you really keep going by yourself? For example, our first livestock will probably be chickens. I know there will be the cost of coop materials and buying the initial chicks. But do you have to buy their food or can let them dig up bugs and grow the rest yourself practically? A couple of dairy goats sound nice – but again, do we REALLY have to KEEP putting money into them (on feed etc.) in order to get good milk, or can we manage that somehow ourselves?

 

It just seems to me from what I’ve read that most people who love self-sufficiency aren’t really self-sufficient. Rather than depending on the store for their eggs, they depend on the store for chicken food. Or rather than depending on the store for tomatoes, they depend on the store for tomato seeds or sets.

 

Can you do it all on your own? Or are those days long gone?

 

I don't know how many kids you have, but I have spent a significant amount of time studying and talking to people who cruise on sailboats. After the initial investment of a good boat and then outfitting it with solar and wind generators, nav equipment and some other things you can lead a pretty simplistic life if you aren't in the US or the Med. There are lots of places that are really cheap and bartering is really common. Just something else to think about.

[kiana]

re: insulation on chicken coops

 

Our chickens never needed anything more than a bedding pack in western Wisconsin. If they're on concrete or something similar their toes will freeze off. The roosters will freeze their combs if it gets too cold, but if the hens are sensible winter breeds (pea combs are best, rose combs are second-best) they'll be fine.

 

As a matter of fact, before we moved from Wisconsin we had a group of feral chickens on our farm that had been self-sustaining for over ten years.

 

They were very fast and very clever, and liked riding on the backs of the cows in winter to keep their tootsies warm, but were perfectly happy outside in a snowstorm.

[Tarreymere]

Even in the 'good old days' back on the farm people lived in a community and traded or bartered with other people for good or services. I think you will find that there are things you could do for yourself but that it is better in some way for you to exchange money or whatnot to have or get from someone else. Shoes, for instance, come to mind.......:001_smile:

[stripe]

Also don't take Little House on the Prairie as gospel. It's a novel based on her life. She left some things out and emphasized other things.

 

And ultimately, one cannot be self sufficient if they depend on the earth, water, land, animals and so on.

[Trish]

Two years? Seems like we'll be getting an opportunity to try out our self sufficiency skills well before then.

[laughing lioness]

fwiw: self sufficiency isn't "simple living." It's anything but. We have a huge garden. We (meaning everyone living at home) work it. This year was cold and wet at the start and blistering hot since. We've had VERY little produce and we have gardening experience, beds that are double dug and composted and full up with worms. Sometimes conditions just don't agree with what you are doing.

And as an aside I think lots of folks a couple of generations ago suffered from malnutrition. My grandparents wrere both under 5'9" and both of their boys were over 6'3". Out of both of my grandfathers and their 7 siblings there were only a handful of biological children.

[Momma2Many66]

Yes it is very possible.

 

Before we bought our farm 11 years ago, we read CountrySide Magazine all the time and there was tons of folks in there who lived almost totally self sustainable lifestyles "off the grid".

 

They would write into the magazine and give their advice to encourage other "back to the lander's" on how they too can live a self sustainable lifestyle.

 

If you can, I would recommend you get the old 1990 through 2000 CountrySide Magazines off of ebay and start reading, they are so very encouraging !!

 

Other good books you can read are:

 

Five Acres and Independence & The Encyclopedia of Country Living.

 

Both excellent books to encourage you !!

[missmoe]

My parents moved to a farm to do just that.

 

What my parents were able to do on 10 acres of land (and another few acres a neighbor had):

 

raise sheep for wool and meat

raise cattle for milk and meat

raise a flock of chickens for meat and eggs

raise ducks for eggs and meat (we had a pond)

raise 2 pigs each year for meat

grow a LARGE garden

grow own fruit trees

grow several fields of hay

One year we grew a field of beets--did well

One year we grew a field of peanuts--total failure

 

We filled two-three freezers a year with meat and produce. My mother canned 300 quarts of food a year. We lived on mostly what we had on the farm. My father still had a job that provided a house and car payments and clothes for us. My father was retired from the military so health care was covered that way.

 

 

One of the pp mentioned community. Within our community of farms there was a ton of bartering and trading going on. My parents sheared the sheep, but sent it to a mill for processing. The mill took a portion of the wool in exchange for processing into blankets or yarn. Same thing with butchering. Different farmers butchered at different times and took meat in payment. If your cow was dry, you got milk from a neighbor in exchange for something they needed. The orchard not to far away set aside the fruit they know my mother needed to can because she knit socks for their family each year. I think trying to live off the land without the help of like minded neighbors would make for a dismal lonely exstitence. So self suffient in the sense of doing it all yourself, most likely not doable.

[ChristusG]

I've thought how great it would be to be "self sufficient"....but then I think about the costs. The start up costs would be sky high. You have to buy a house/land where you are allowed to raise animals, you have to buy *enough* land to do what you want, you have to purchase the animals to start up, purchase animal food, supplies like fencing/etc, build barns, plant gardens and trees, water them, etc. It would be like having several full time jobs. And it's not something that one person could do alone....and DH certainly couldn't quite his job to help because then who would pay the start up costs (not that we could afford them)?

 

Self sufficiency is expensive.

[amy g.]

I agree that you wouldn't want to do it alone.

 

Dh makes good money, at a job he enjoys, and would never want to quit it despite the hour long commute, so I imagine we will always have outside income. We have paid for most of out start up things from his pay check. Miss Good usually asks for cattle panels for her birthday and Christmas, although this year, she is getting new goats for both.

 

We have been building our homestead for 5 years now. She got her first goats for her 12th birthday, her horse for her 13th birthday, her first cow for her 14th birthday, I think friends gave her a pig for her 15th birthday, Sweet 16, it was T-posts and cattle panels. She will turn 17 next week, and already got two baby goats and a new livestock protection puppy that should be delivered soon.

 

She never gets tired of the work, so even though Dh and I help her with some things, it is like having full time adult help. She is scheduled to graduate this year, and wants to continue farming full time, but has agreed to also taking 2 classes each semester towards a small business management degree.

 

People often overlook how steep the learning curve can be, and how much everything costs.

[WishboneDawn]

Also don't take Little House on the Prairie as gospel. It's a novel based on her life. She left some things out and emphasized other things.

 

And ultimately, one cannot be self sufficient if they depend on the earth, water, land, animals and so on.

 

Another point is that the level of independence in that book is really not such a romantic thing. I bet Ma would have been ecstatic if she could have ordered a take-out pizza once or twice. :D

 

For a much less romantic view of independent pioneer living read Sisters in the Wilderness by Charlotte Gray. It's about two English sisters, Susanna Moodie and Catharine Parr Traill who come to Canada in 1834 to live the pioneer life. Both became important figures in Canadian literature but boy, their pioneer experiences were nothing I'd like to try.

Edited August 5, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[Peela]

Its a dream I always had, also, but nowadays I think I would be far more interested in finding or establishing healthy community. I am doing that even living in the city- I support the Farmers Markets here, and local food networks.

 

Self sufficiency may not be as useful as having networks set up so that you can trade barter, and get essentials.

 

Also, if I had the capital, I would immediately set up solar panelling for electricity, and plenty of water tanks. Then I would plant fruit trees.

 

Seeds- buy heirloom seeds for your vegetables (and maybe fruit)- that way you will not be dependent on seed companies as you can save the seed.

 

We will all still need each other if the economic structure collapses- and while I admire those who are self sufficient, it wont be much of a world if we cant still take care of each other and connect with others in healthy and interdependent ways.

[livingnlearning]

Our garden is not doing well this year either-long wet cold spring followed by heat. So I'll get a few things but not like usual. Bless beets, they always grow! lol But it means it was a great year for berries in the mountains so we've been picking gooseberries, raspberries, huckleberries and chokecherries and will put up a ton of juice for jellies, syrups, whatever. I'm also getting in a late crop of cool season vegies.

 

Also, just a total sidenote, domestic ducks don't need water. :)

[jenangelcat]

 

Seeds- buy heirloom seeds for your vegetables (and maybe fruit)- that way you will not be dependent on seed companies as you can save the seed.

 

We will all still need each other if the economic structure collapses- and while I admire those who are self sufficient, it wont be much of a world if we cant still take care of each other and connect with others in healthy and interdependent ways.

 

 

Just a note that not all seeds (even heirloom) can be saved successfully without a lot of effort. Melons and squash cross pollinate and the distance you need to keep each variety apart is generally not feasible for home gardens. It's fine if you don't mind a cuke/melon hybrid but if you want seeds that will produce the same as the parent plant, they need to be separated.