tntgoodwin Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Has anyone read his stuff? I am just learning about him. Seems like I guy I would agree with on a lot of things. Incidentally, seems very intelligent. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I appreciate many of his thoughts in regards to academic matters. I despise his patriarchal view of women, leadership, and courtship. My first exposure to him was reading Her Hand in Marriage during college and it turned me off to him, I considered him on par with Jonathan Lindvall. It wasn't until a few years later that I discovered his classical education writings (and normal people who liked those ideas) that made me rethink writing him off altogether ;). I'd still take him with a big dose of discernment though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Revolting human being. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Why does that name sound familiar? Off to wiki. Okay, I may have come across his homeschooling stuff at one point. Since he is of a different persuasion than I, I would not have read any of his religious materials. Edited August 1, 2011 by Parrothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Just warning you that this topic is a big ole can 'o worms. Personally, I hold to an amillenialist pov so his Federal Vision theology and end times eschatology differ from my own. Edited August 1, 2011 by Daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Grabbing the popcorn for this one! I have yet to witness one of these threads go down. I wonder how long it will last. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Why does that name sound familiar? Off to wiki. Okay, I may have come across his homeschooling stuff at one point. Since he is of a different persuasion than I, I would not have read any of his religious materials. His name probably sounds familiar b/c his slavery views come up in every single conversation about the Civil War that occurs on this forum. Edited August 1, 2011 by Daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 One word. Nauseating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 His name probably sounds familiar b/c his slavery views come up in every single conversation about the Civil War that occurs on this forum. Yep. Being pro-slavery is only one of the many odious positions Douglas Wilson holds. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Oh wait, I should have noted that the thread was designed to stir the pot and was not seeking information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Grabbing the popcorn for this one! I have yet to witness one of these threads go down. I wonder how long it will last. :D :lurk5: Pulling up my tub to watch as well. Could you pass the seasoning salt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Wow, i had no idea he was so controversial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Oh wait, I should have noted that the thread was designed to stir the pot and was not seeking information... False. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I appreciate many of his thoughts in regards to academic matters. I despise his patriarchal view of women, leadership, and courtship. :iagree: Those views alone are enough to turn me off to anything else he might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Is this the same Douglas Wilson that worked on the Omnibus series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 About all I knew was he was a calvinist libertarian who has debated Christopher Hitchens and has written a bunch of books and writes about classical Christian homeschooling. No idea of his views on slavery or that he is patriarchal. I figured he was complementarean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Is this the same Douglas Wilson that worked on the Omnibus series? Yep. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Is this the same Douglas Wilson that worked on the Omnibus series? I think so. Just found that out today. What do you think of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Elliot Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) About all I knew was he was a calvinist libertarian who has debated Christopher Hitchens and has written a bunch of books and writes about classical Christian homeschooling. Honestly, if you want encouraged in your classical Christian homeschooling endeavors, stay far, far away from Doug. I read one of his books years ago, and what he wrote about classical Christian homeschooling was basically that it is vastly inferior to classical Christian schooling. Actually I think it was worse than that, but I didn't keep the book, so I can't quote directly. It left me feeling that classical Christian homeschooling cannot be done well. If I didn't know better, I might have quit homeschooling after reading his book. Fortunately I know better. I like what this blogger writes. Here's one little quote from one of her posts: "If you want to teach your children about straw man arguments read Doug." Edited August 1, 2011 by Luann in ID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I picked up one or two of his books several years ago--without any knowledge about him--and was unhappy about the emphasis on private schooling (his private school, of course) over homeschooling and what seemed to me to be extreme Calvinism. I was quite upset to read him cheerfully quoting his FIL in reference to newborn babies as "little bundles of sin." :ack2: Apparently that was supposed to be affectionate. This is the first I've heard about anything to do with slavery. Holy moley. Edited August 1, 2011 by dangermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Crackpot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Golly, I really did not know that! To the OP, there is some good and obviously some not so good. Discernment is the key and the realization that someone can have a good idea followed by a bad one or the other way around. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Yep. Being pro-slavery is only one of the many odious positions Douglas Wilson holds. Bill Seriously? This guy thinks we should still own slaves? And people buy his materials? I've looked at Omnibus somewhat and it seemed like a good, rigorous curriculum even though I am not currently using it. I am suprised he has such a following if he is openly pro-slavery. Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 He sounds like a charming fellow. :::making gagging noises::: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 They were Wilson groupies. They referred to the children this way, and had very specific recommendations as to how to deal with it. . You know, I am a calvinist and I believe in original sin and total depravity but even so, calling a baby a "little sinner" creeps me out. Blech. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Seriously? This guy thinks we should still own slaves? And people buy his materials? I've looked at Omnibus somewhat and it seemed like a good, rigorous curriculum even though I am not currently using it. I am suprised he has such a following if he is openly pro-slavery. Crazy. He denies he is a racist, but embraces the term "paleo-Confederate" to describe his views which include a belief that the bible gave slave-holders the right to own slaves. I've seen web reports that he flies a Confederate flag in his office and that his Logos School celebrates Robert E. Lee's birthday and not those of MLK or Abraham Lincoln. Evidently he also believe only propertied-males should have the right to vote. Sorry ladies! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 He denies he is a racist, but embraces the term "paleo-Confederate" to describe his views which include a belief that the bible gave slave-holders the right to own slaves. I've seen web reports that he flies a Confederate flag in his office and that his Logos School celebrates Robert E. Lee's birthday and not those of MLK or Abraham Lincoln. Evidently he also believe only propertied-males should have the right to vote. Sorry ladies! Bill Wow. I suppose he also has a stash of confederate money in case the south rises again? :lol: Well if only propertied males can vote then the next election will have even less people voting since half of America has foreclosed on their homes. I'll have to do some research before I can declare this with certainty but my official preliminary conclusion then is: whackjob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Wow. I suppose he also has a stash of confederate money in case the south rises again? :lol: Well if only propertied males can vote then the next election will have even less people voting since half of America has foreclosed on their homes. I'll have to do some research before I can declare this with certainty but my official preliminary conclusion then is: whackjob. I just found this, you might enjoy it (or not) :tongue_smilie: In an interview with Christianity Today, Wilson distanced himself from the Reconstructionist label, but not the movement’s harsh views. Asked if he would execute gays, he replied, “You can’t apply Scripture woodenly. You might exile some homosexuals, depending on the circumstances and the age of the victim. There are circumstances where I’d be in favor of execution for adultery…. I’m not proposing legislation. All I’m doing is refusing to apologize for certain parts of the Bible.†OK. That makes us feel better – not! Wilson’s biggest controversy was his co-authorship of a booklet called “Southern Slavery: As It Was.†The tract argues that the Bible approves of slavery and insists that slavery in the South “was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence.†The Southern Poverty Law Center called the booklet “a repulsive apologia for slavery.†Wilson, who refers to himself as a “paleo-Confederate,†seems unrepentant, telling Christianity Today that he believes “the South was right on all the essential constitutional and cultural issues surrounding the war.†“You’re not going to scare me away from the word Confederate like you just said ‘Boo!’†Wilson told the magazine. “I would define a neo-Confederate as someone who thinks we are still fighting that war. Instead, I would say we’re fighting in a long war, and that [the Civil War] was one battle that we lost.†Wilson says if fundamentalists admit the Bible’s approval of slavery is outdated, their scripture-based attacks on abortion, feminism and homosexuality might be considered outdated too. http://blog.au.org/2009/06/05/chucking-democracy-colson-headlines-paleoconfederates-conference-in-atlanta/ Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I just found this, you might enjoy it (or not) :tongue_smilie: In an interview with Christianity Today, Wilson distanced himself from the Reconstructionist label, but not the movement’s harsh views. Asked if he would execute gays, he replied, “You can’t apply Scripture woodenly. You might exile some homosexuals, depending on the circumstances and the age of the victim. There are circumstances where I’d be in favor of execution for adultery…. I’m not proposing legislation. All I’m doing is refusing to apologize for certain parts of the Bible.†OK. That makes us feel better – not! Wilson’s biggest controversy was his co-authorship of a booklet called “Southern Slavery: As It Was.†The tract argues that the Bible approves of slavery and insists that slavery in the South “was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence.†The Southern Poverty Law Center called the booklet “a repulsive apologia for slavery.†Wilson, who refers to himself as a “paleo-Confederate,†seems unrepentant, telling Christianity Today that he believes “the South was right on all the essential constitutional and cultural issues surrounding the war.†“You’re not going to scare me away from the word Confederate like you just said ‘Boo!’†Wilson told the magazine. “I would define a neo-Confederate as someone who thinks we are still fighting that war. Instead, I would say we’re fighting in a long war, and that [the Civil War] was one battle that we lost.†Wilson says if fundamentalists admit the Bible’s approval of slavery is outdated, their scripture-based attacks on abortion, feminism and homosexuality might be considered outdated too. http://blog.au.org/2009/06/05/chucking-democracy-colson-headlines-paleoconfederates-conference-in-atlanta/ Bill Ok, I think I am going to be ill. Strike that whole "I'm going to research it" comment. I just ate. Just wow. Sounds like a good candidate for that Westboro Baptist Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 My son was in K-1 in a school of people who were really great people as individuals, but in the collective...something changed. They were Wilson groupies. They referred to the children this way, and had very specific recommendations as to how to deal with it. Needless to say, my son is a 2nd grade dropout, we became accidental homeschoolers, and I could say a lot more, but I won't. It was a very painful part of my life. But it is also redeemed and was the bow to the arrow of my journey to becoming an Orthodox Christian, which faith does not hold to the view expressed in the post to which I am responding. Beatings? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Wilson says if fundamentalists admit the Bible’s approval of slavery is outdated, their scripture-based attacks on abortion, feminism and homosexuality might be considered outdated too. Perish the thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Ok, I think I am going to be ill. Strike that whole "I'm going to research it" comment. I just ate. Just wow. Sounds like a good candidate for that Westboro Baptist Church. Unlike Fred Phelps, Douglas Wilson says this kind of thing with a big smile on his face. He clearly enjoys his role as the "naughtiest boy" in tulip-land. He does not lack of sense of humor, it is just one that is highly peculiar. And, of course, he's a total ego-maniac. One very strange man. But not one in the mode of Fred Phelps. Doug is his own special creation. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thank you for this thread. I knew he was part of Omnibus. I also knew he was in headlines recently battling with ???? Was it HSLDA or was it about some conference???? I did not click on the headline, so I never knew what the stir was about. Now I have an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Beatings? Bill For boys. With a paddle. His slavery booklet is the reason we left the private school we were vary happy with. We had not researched the background of the school to the extent many here research things. There was a new school in town and it looked/sounded good. Classical model. They wanted to be Logos School east. (model Doug Wilson's school) We enrolled first one and then two in the school. We were happy with the school. It was Christian. Somewhere in there they hired a new principal that had been at Wilson's school. Things were still good. But we were only in elementary school. Then we started to see cracks. DD2's second grade teacher "disappeared" and no one could answer why. Then DD1 was in 5th grade and the slavery booklet was an issue in the news in the fall. (Slavery booklet was used in 6th grade.) We stayed with the school until the end of the school year and didn't go back. The slavery booklet got me to looking and things, researching. I finally read Wilson's book, well one of them. I can't remember which one. And in it he advocates paddling for discipline at school. (We did have a form to fill out every year with a check mark about paddling. We always checked no. We live really really close and if there was an offense that serious, call me and I will take care of it.) But it also clearly called out boys for paddling,not girls. Oh, and since Omnibus has been brought up that Wilson wrote it/helped write it, the principal at the private school (the one who worked with Wilson and goes to a church started by Wilson and so must be thought of as a Wilson devotee) has left the school and is going to be working at Veritas. Something like driving the on-line school vision or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 But it also clearly called out boys for paddling,not girls. Because, clearly, history and current events have shown us that only little girls are in danger of punishment turning into something inappropriate. Sexual predation never happens to boys at the hands of religious authorities. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Because, clearly, history and current events have shown us that only little girls are in danger of punishment turning into something inappropriate. Sexual predation never happens to boys at the hands of religious authorities. :glare: Huh. I thought it was because women are such weak, vapid creatures that any "trouble" we should cause would absolutely be traced back to an inciting male. And, of course, such correction would be a waste since we a) could not manifest an original thought and b) would be doing exactly as we should: carrying out instructions from a superior... Honestly, I doubt this sort of mindset would even acknowledge abuse of a female as existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Huh. I thought it was because women are such weak, vapid creatures that any "trouble" we should cause would absolutely be traced back to an inciting male. And, of course, such correction would be a waste since we a) could not manifest an original thought and b) would be doing exactly as we should: carrying out instructions from a superior... Honestly, I doubt this sort of mindset would even acknowledge abuse of a female as existent. Nah. I got "spanked" with a belt by my father, and was threatened with spankings by other religious authorities when I was growing up. More likely, the school respects the father's unassailable right to be the only male (until her husband) to administer spankings to his wayward daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Here is the link for those who want to read the slavery pamphlet (republished as Black and Tan) and decide for themselves. I like a lot of what he writes, and his wife moreso. But this pamphlet (along with the Wilkins materials sold through Veritas) led me away from Veritas and Omnibus materials. http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/slavery/southern_slavery_as_it_was.htm http://www.canonwired.com/featured/southern-slavery/ Edited August 1, 2011 by LNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 More likely, the school respects the father's unassailable right to be the only male (until her husband) to administer spankings to his wayward daughter. :lol: I'm sorry, I just had a Castle Anthrax moment there. The actual concept makes me go :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Grabbing the popcorn for this one! I have yet to witness one of these threads go down. I wonder how long it will last. :D :lol: Here's my bowl. :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I was hoping for a bit more entertainment on this one! ;) Guess its a shoot out. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Honestly, if you want encouraged in your classical Christian homeschooling endeavors, stay far, far away from Doug. I read one of his books years ago, and what he wrote about classical Christian homeschooling was basically that it is vastly inferior to classical Christian schooling. Yes, I read one of his books on classical education, and he was definitely not pro-homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Uh, this isn't about the TLC designer? ::backs out quietly:: :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Just wanted to comment that many good solid Calvinists distance themselves from Douglas Wilson's views. He has been outright accused of heresy for some of his views, namely that Federal Vision theology undermines justification by faith alone. He's been referred to as a neolegalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I picked up one or two of his books several years ago--without any knowledge about him--and was unhappy about the emphasis on private schooling (his private school, of course) over homeschooling and what seemed to me to be extreme Calvinism. I was quite upset to read him cheerfully quoting his FIL in reference to newborn babies as "little bundles of sin." :ack2: Apparently that was supposed to be affectionate. This is the first I've heard about anything to do with slavery. Holy moley. This was my case too. I had bought one of his books on classical education and was not very happy with it, but I had no idea about the rest like being pro-slavery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thank you for this thread. I knew he was part of Omnibus. I also knew he was in headlines recently battling with ???? Was it HSLDA or was it about some conference???? I did not click on the headline, so I never knew what the stir was about. Now I have an idea. No, I think you're thinking of someone else. Ken Ham, probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Legalistic Chauvenistic Racist Patriarchical Arrogant Poor logic Punitive minded in religion and parenting matters There is nothing he brings to the table of value that can't be found elsewhere without the ick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Just wanted to comment that many good solid Calvinists distance themselves from Douglas Wilson's views. He has been outright accused of heresy for some of his views, namely that Federal Vision theology undermines justification by faith alone. He's been referred to as a neolegalist. :iagree: And don't even get me started on the issues of slavery, children and marriage. My first introduction to him was receiving an issue of Credenda Agenda in the mail. I'm not sure how my name got on his mailing list, but I started to read and was immediately turned off by his condescending and judgmental tone. New magazines would arrive and they would get dropped in the recycle bin, unless my morbid curiosity would get the better of me or if I was really looking for a reason to get myself fired up. :tongue_smilie: I started to watch the video of his debate with Hitchens at WTS and was so appalled with how everyone was treating Hitchens that I could not continue to watch it. I don't like sharing the label "Reformed" with someone who is so vocal, pompous, and hateful (not to mention just WRONG in so many of his views). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Revolting human being. Bill ROTFL!! I love your honesty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The link below takes you to a page criticizing Wilson's work on slavery as being plagiarism. I have linked it because it allows you to read the work online. http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Plagiarism.htm'>http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Plagiarism.htm'>http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Plagiarism.htm'>http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/Plagiarism.htm This link is to the website's main page and contains other links to information about "Southern Slavery as It Was." http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/ I googled a bit, but could not find any neutral commentary! This man is beloved or deplored! For me, the slavery issue is a deal breaker. The corrupted thinking that brings him to the conclusions he draws regarding Civil War era history could not bring him to any conclusion I would ever consider. Enjoy your reading. Beware of dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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