Should obese kids be taken away from their parents?

[Teachin'Mine]

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/should-parents-lose-custody-of-super-obese-kids-2510149/

[twoforjoy]

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/should-parents-lose-custody-of-super-obese-kids-2510149/

 

I can't tell you how infuriatingly stupid I find this. The AMA should be censured for even suggesting this.

 

AFAIK, the only study ever done on obesity rates in foster care was done in the UK. It found that kids in foster care were MORE likely to be overweight or obese than kids not in foster care, and that 35% of children in foster care demonstrate an increase in their BMI.

 

Not to mention what we know of the devastating long-term emotional and behavior consequences of being removed from family and placed in foster care.

 

Really, this is just like one of the worst ideas ever.

 

One reason--and there are many--why this is so ridiculous is that, if anything, I'd say that "super obese" kids are far more likely to have genetic, metabolic, and/or medical issues contributing to their obesity than other kids. If your kid is 10 pounds overweight, I'll buy that maybe it's because that kid is eating too much and not exercising enough. If your kid is 100 pounds overweight, then I'm going to assume it's not because you are forcefeeding your child junk food all day, but because there's other factors at work that "lifestyle changes" probably won't remedy.

 

And, what about parents who feed their kids junk food all day, but their kids are thin? Yes, kids like that do exist; I see them all the time. There are many kids here who seem to subsist on a "liquor store diet": they eat stuff their parents can pick up at the liquor store around the corner--chips, soda, candy. And, most of them are thin. Is it somehow just fine for a parent of a thin child to provide them with nothing but junk? I don't see any valid basis for removing a child from a home based not on the parents' behavior toward the child but the child's body size.

Edited July 14, 2011 by twoforjoy

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

For extreme caes like the 400 pound 12 year old, I am not so sure it is such a bad idea. I recall that there was a 200 pound 2 year old once as well:( When I hear of such cases I think it is abuse since parents do have the ability to control what younger kids eat by only offering good choices and setting good examples IMHO. Obviously I think this should only be reserved for extreme cases and only after other interventions fail such as intensive interventions with doctor, nutritionists, case workers, etc. I don't think this applies to just chubby kids though.

[Mama Geek]

Absolutely not.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

For extreme caes like the 400 pound 12 year old, I am not so sure it is such a bad idea. I recall that there was a 200 pound 2 year old once as well:( When I hear of such cases I think it is abuse since parents do have the ability to control what younger kids eat by only offering good choices and setting good examples IMHO. Obviously I think this should only be reserved for extreme cases and only after other interventions fail such as intensive interventions with doctor, nutritionists, case workers, etc. I don't think this applies to just chubby kids though.

 

:iagree: This is what I was thinking. I have a family member who feeds her kids nothing more than frozen boxed dinners and fast food. The youngest is 8ish and weighs more than me, and I'm overweight!

 

There are also lots of kids like my daughter who, according to BMI, is overweight but is gaining in height with no weight gain and are just shy of starting their periods.

[Harriet Vane]

The very idea enrages me.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I can't tell you how infuriatingly stupid I find this. The AMA should be censured for even suggesting this.

 

AFAIK, the only study ever done on obesity rates in foster care was done in the UK. It found that kids in foster care were MORE likely to be overweight or obese than kids not in foster care, and that 35% of children in foster care demonstrate an increase in their BMI.

 

Not to mention what we know of the devastating long-term emotional and behavior consequences of being removed from family and placed in foster care.

 

Really, this is just like one of the worst ideas ever.

 

One reason--and there are many--why this is so ridiculous is that, if anything, I'd say that "super obese" kids are far more likely to have genetic, metabolic, and/or medical issues contributing to their obesity than other kids. If your kid is 10 pounds overweight, I'll buy that maybe it's because that kid is eating too much and not exercising enough. If your kid is 100 pounds overweight, then I'm going to assume it's not because you are forcefeeding your child junk food all day, but because there's other factors at work that "lifestyle changes" probably won't remedy.

 

And, what about parents who feed their kids junk food all day, but their kids are thin? Yes, kids like that do exist; I see them all the time. There are many kids here who seem to subsist on a "liquor store diet": they eat stuff their parents can pick up at the liquor store around the corner--chips, soda, candy. And, most of them are thin. Is it somehow just fine for a parent of a thin child to provide them with nothing but junk? I don't see any valid basis for removing a child from a home based not on the parents' behavior toward the child but the child's body size.

 

I disagree since even though I consider obesity a disease (and am currently truly suffering from the same). I believe most cases result from overeating and lack of exercise. I do believe that metabolic problems such as insulin resistance do develop after becoming obese which makes it very hard to lose weight. I also believe that some people are more genetically prone to obesity but I also believe that does not make it inevitable that a person will be obese in most cases. Plus, I have seen cases where the parents have not force fed the child but have indulged the child with all quantities and all kinds of junk food which to me is abuse:( Both my dh and I are obese and are suffering as a result. We are trying to turn that around. DS is prone to the same but we offer healthy choices and encourage exercise. My ds would eat tons if I let him. What I do is offer fruit and veggies when he wants more than one serving of a meal. Of course, no food is forbidden but we don't have desert everyday or keep junk food in the house often. There are things a parent can do without making the kid obsessed with food at the same time:)

Edited July 14, 2011 by priscilla

[DawnM]

Well, some intervention does need to happen, although I wouldn't just agree with yanking the child out of a home.

 

The child is at significant risk in these extreme cases. 440 pounds at 16 with sleep apnea and diabetes? That is a death sentence.

 

The mom who said, "well, I was working two jobs so I couldn't do anything but drive through fast food restaurants" irritated me. I disagree completely. If you don't have time to make dinner, you can certainly still buy pre-washed salad, a bag of apples, crockpot meals or stick chicken in the oven for 20 min. I never agree with the "I just didn't have a choice" mentality. If you can afford time and money for fast food, you have time and $$ for grocery store food.

 

Dawn

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Well, some intervention does need to happen, although I wouldn't just agree with yanking the child out of a home.

 

The child is at significant risk in these extreme cases. 440 pounds at 16 with sleep apnea and diabetes? That is a death sentence.

 

The mom who said, "well, I was working two jobs so I couldn't do anything but drive through fast food restaurants" irritated me. I disagree completely. If you don't have time to make dinner, you can certainly still buy pre-washed salad, a bag of apples, crockpot meals or stick chicken in the oven for 20 min. I never agree with the "I just didn't have a choice" mentality. If you can afford time and money for fast food, you have time and $$ for grocery store food.

 

Dawn

:iagree:I do think other interventions should be tried first before removing aq child from a home. A child who is 400 pounds at 12 is morbidly obese which means they are at great risk of dying:( I don't think should apply to merely obese at all but I still hope for guidance from the doctor in these cases.

[NittanyJen]

I know a little boy who is very slim and muscular looking, age 8. I also know his entire diet is junk. He eats nothing, or a Hershey bar for breakfast, French fries for lunch, and French fries, pizza, or chicken nuggets for dinner at his home. Sometimes in my home, I can entice him to eat a piece of fruit or a slice of quality cheese, to keep some semblance of nutrition going. I work with his mother to teach her affordable cooking techniques, but she thinks it is 'mean' to make him eat things he 'doesn't like' and runs out to buy the fries. He only drinks soda, sometimes water. He is no overweight, let alone obese (yet). He is becoming undersized, though.

 

I know another little boy with Prader Willi syndrome. His Mom has locks on all the cabinets, the fridge, and yes, even the trash can, by necessity. People with PW are unable to control their impulses regarding food. She prepares healthy meals for the whole family according to a prescribed diet for this one child, and works hard at it. There is no junk food in the house. Yet, the child with PW still gets his hands on extra food-- and is overweight.

 

You cannot judge a parent or their nutritional efforts (I won't even go into the play and exercise habits of these kids... It makes the cases even more extreme) by just looking at the kids and thinking you know the story. Genes play a role. Metabolism plays a role. Health status, birth order, and many other complex factors beyond cal in, cal out factor in.

 

Taking a kid out of their home, or even threatening it could trigger an emotional disturbance that could feed an eating disorder.

[Stacie Leigh]

Very scary. My DD is in the 3rd percentile for weight. Are they going to take custody of underweight kids too? Or what about kids that have more than one asthma attack in a certain time frame? Will they be removed due to poor conditions?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Very scary. My DD is in the 3rd percentile for weight.Are they going to take custody of underweight kids too? Or what about kids that have more than one asthma attack in a certain time frame? Will they be removed due to poor conditions?

 

This already happens, but not with just low weight kids like yours. There have to problems other than 3rd%ile, like falling off their own chart, or not growing in height.

 

I called my son's ped freaking out about the amount of weight he had lost. I made an appointment to deal with his weight, yet the Dr was still nasty about my son having lost weight. I was there asking for pediasure since I couldn't get him to eat!

 

A ton of parents who have FTT kids are reported despite being at a Dr's office close to daily trying to find out why the kid is FTT.

 

My son was on pediasure for 6 months prior to his diagnostic appt., but the Dr wasn't (at first) concerned at all about nutrition because he currently looks very healthy; slim, some muscle definition, and very active. It takes a lot of work to keep him this way!

[Matryoshka]

Okay, so...

 

1. The government subsidizes the corn industry which leads to HFCS being pit into every.single.processed food in the country.

 

2. The government does not regulate advertising of junk food to minors so they get a constant barrage of encouragement to eat sugary, fat-filled junk.

 

3. The government schools serve lunches mostly devoid of any nutritional value, burgers, fried chicken fingers and the like, and does not restrict (or actually encourages, as a way to increase school funding) vending machines selling junk and sugar water on school property. This food is what most kids get for 1-2 meals of their entire childhoods.

 

4. This has been going on for long enough that the current crop of adults grew up this way and many have no idea how to cook a healthy meal, and also are "used" to eating this way and view it as normal.

 

5. Government planners over the past 50 years have designed an infrastructure that is so car-based that no one can walk or bike to anything because of either distance, or danger to one's life on roads with no accommodations for anything but cars, or both, meaning exercise is now a planned (and usually paid for) activity instead of something that happens naturally over the course of a day because you need to get somewhere (remember when kids walked or biked to school?)

 

6. So now we have a childhood obesity epidemic and the answer is that the government should take people's kids away, because they're going to do a better job. QED.

 

:banghead:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

3. The government schools serve lunches mostly devoid of any nutritional value, burgers, fried chicken fingers and the like, and does not restrict (or actually encourages, as a way to increase school funding) vending machines selling junk and sugar water on school property. This food is what most kids get for 1-2 meals of their entire childhoods.

 

 

And school breakfast! They serve pop tarts, muffins, cereals, rice krispie treats, etc.

[Impish]

Well, some intervention does need to happen, although I wouldn't just agree with yanking the child out of a home.

 

The child is at significant risk in these extreme cases. 440 pounds at 16 with sleep apnea and diabetes? That is a death sentence.

 

The mom who said, "well, I was working two jobs so I couldn't do anything but drive through fast food restaurants" irritated me. I disagree completely. If you don't have time to make dinner, you can certainly still buy pre-washed salad, a bag of apples, crockpot meals or stick chicken in the oven for 20 min. I never agree with the "I just didn't have a choice" mentality. If you can afford time and money for fast food, you have time and $$ for grocery store food.

 

Dawn

:iagree:

Something has got to change. I don't see how removing a child is the solution, however. What's that teaching anyone? How does that make any real changes?

 

There's a severe shortage of foster homes to start with. Forgive me while I think a better use of the resources to be for the children who are being molested, beaten, etc.

 

Obesity is something that can and SHOULD be addressed in the home.

[unsinkable]

Of course obese children should be taken away from their parents. As long as you take away underweight children, too. Because their parents must be screwing them up, too.

 

ETA: Forgot to add: the picky eaters must be removed, also. That is all the parents' fault.

Edited July 14, 2011 by unsinkable

[RahRah]

I do believe that metabolic problems such as insulin resistance do develop after becoming obese which makes it very hard to lose weight.

 

It's more likely, and the data strongly suggests, that IR develops first, with weight gain following as a protective mechanism (homeostasis) to stabilize blood sugars by shuttling excess to fat storage. As BG then declines with the storage of excess into fat cells, hunger is triggered to bring BG back up into normal range, so one eats and the cycle starts again - especially when the foods chosen are quickly converted to glucose (process carbs for the most part).

 

A good number of children are born to women who are IR, so they're already predisposed to IR themselves due to the exposure to higher levels of glucose and insulin in-utero, long before they were born. There's interesting data that suggests this type of exposure during the fetal period primes the pancreas and whole body cells to be IR from birth, leading to a higher level of adiposity by age six - even when the child eats healthfully.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It's more likely, and the data strongly suggests, that IR develops first, with weight gain following as a protective mechanism (homeostasis) to stabilize blood sugars by shuttling excess to fat storage. As BG then declines with the storage of excess into fat cells, hunger is triggered to bring BG back up into normal range, so one eats and the cycle starts again - especially when the foods chosen are quickly converted to glucose (process carbs for the most part).

 

A good number of children are born to women who are IR, so they're already predisposed to IR themselves due to the exposure to higher levels of glucose and insulin in-utero, long before they were born. There's interesting data that suggests this type of exposure during the fetal period primes the pancreas and whole body cells to be IR from birth, leading to a higher level of adiposity by age six - even when the child eats healthfully.

This may be true but I still don't believe that morbid obesity is a given even in this situation and is preventable. IMHO I believe that most cases of morbid obesity and obesity can be prevented I hope:)

[FaithManor]

I know a little boy who is very slim and muscular looking, age 8. I also know his entire diet is junk. He eats nothing, or a Hershey bar for breakfast, French fries for lunch, and French fries, pizza, or chicken nuggets for dinner at his home. Sometimes in my home, I can entice him to eat a piece of fruit or a slice of quality cheese, to keep some semblance of nutrition going. I work with his mother to teach her affordable cooking techniques, but she thinks it is 'mean' to make him eat things he 'doesn't like' and runs out to buy the fries. He only drinks soda, sometimes water. He is no overweight, let alone obese (yet). He is becoming undersized, though.

 

I know another little boy with Prader Willi syndrome. His Mom has locks on all the cabinets, the fridge, and yes, even the trash can, by necessity. People with PW are unable to control their impulses regarding food. She prepares healthy meals for the whole family according to a prescribed diet for this one child, and works hard at it. There is no junk food in the house. Yet, the child with PW still gets his hands on extra food-- and is overweight.

 

You cannot judge a parent or their nutritional efforts (I won't even go into the play and exercise habits of these kids... It makes the cases even more extreme) by just looking at the kids and thinking you know the story. Genes play a role. Metabolism plays a role. Health status, birth order, and many other complex factors beyond cal in, cal out factor in.

 

Taking a kid out of their home, or even threatening it could trigger an emotional disturbance that could feed an eating disorder.

 

 

My nephew is 5'7 and weighs 115 lbs. Stick thin. His mother gives him six chocolate donuts and a mountain dew for his breakfast, packs chips, cookies, more mountain dew, two candy bars, and three peanut butter sandwiches for his school lunch, and then he gets to eat hot dogs with an entire box of macaroni & cheese, or pizza, hamburger helper (an entire box), or spaghetti for supper. What I just listed for evening meals is ALL that she cooks, period. The only fruit he will eat is green grapes and the only vegetable is green beans. She does not buy these; he gets them when he visits my mother's house. In the afternoons, he is allowed two more candy bars and a bag of chips for snacks.

 

Seriously, the medical community may look at him and say, in their infinite widsom :banghead: that he is healthy because he is skinny and skinny is absolutely worshipped in this nation, but he isn't and he's probably going to be diabetic despite being skinny.

 

Foster care is not likely to fix the child in the article. The reality is that the emotional trauma of being taken away may lead to only more health problems. Refusing to eat, thus causing dangerously low blood sugar levels, elevated corisol in the brain so even worse blood pressure problems, heart palpitations, anxiety attacks, etc. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

Faith

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Of course obese children should be taken away from their parents. As long as you take away underweight children, too. Because their parents must be screwing them up, too.

 

ETA: Forgot to add: the picky eaters must be removed, also. That is all the parents' fault.

I see where you are coming from but IMHO I think they are only advocating this for extreme cases of morbid obesity where other measures have already failed. I cannot imagine someone advocating this as a first line intervention at all or even a second or third intervention. As for underweight, I cannot imagine this happening unless a child was dangerously underweight such as in cases of anorexia and again only after multiple interventions and medical causes rules out.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Why don't they spend more time advocating against McDonald's, Burger King, sugared cereal, soda pop, candy, etc? I don't know about you, but I don't get much nutrition info from the pediatrician. And the one time I tried to get our ped to tell the kids that eating fresh fruits and veggies was important, he wasn't really that enthusiastic about it. He's okay with giving them vitamins if they don't want to eat veggies. UGH!

 

I buy organic and fresh food for our family. I pretty much spend most of our disposable income on this. I didn't want to comment on the 'how much you spend on groceries' thread, because it's way more than the OP's amount. We can currently afford it, but that hasn't always been the case. It's much cheaper to eat crappy food than healthy food. That has to change, in my opinion.

[Joanne]

The mom who said, "well, I was working two jobs so I couldn't do anything but drive through fast food restaurants" irritated me. I disagree completely. If you don't have time to make dinner, you can certainly still buy pre-washed salad, a bag of apples, crockpot meals or stick chicken in the oven for 20 min. I never agree with the "I just didn't have a choice" mentality. If you can afford time and money for fast food, you have time and $$ for grocery store food.

 

Dawn

 

I have tremendous empathy for that parent. If I weren't remarried, trying to actually, physically feed my kids during these years of working 2+ jobs would have been a nightmare. Staying just over ghetto living has a whole set of complicated logistical choices associated with it. I agree that there ARE other choices than fast food daily, but it isn't as simple as some others might think.

 

As to the removing kids, I do believe that some cases of childhood obesity are issues of medical abuse/neglect. If the child's health risks are severe and the parent(s) have not followed thorugh on reasonable interventions or availed themselves to support, I think removing the kids needs to be a consideration.

 

That said, the idea scares me because I don't agree with the government's version of "healthy eating" and I don't buy into the "eat less, move more" solution. I can't imagine the complications of random CPS workers evaluating the diet-styles of homes. The WIC program, for example, is full of mis-information about nutrition, breastfeeding, etc.

 

The obesity problem in the US is complicated on every level: logistically, family styles, nutritional infomration, physiologically.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Joanne

[DawnM]

Agreed.....parenting classes on it would certainly be a start.

 

Dawn

 

:iagree:

Something has got to change. I don't see how removing a child is the solution, however. What's that teaching anyone? How does that make any real changes?

 

There's a severe shortage of foster homes to start with. Forgive me while I think a better use of the resources to be for the children who are being molested, beaten, etc.

 

Obesity is something that can and SHOULD be addressed in the home.

[beaners]

Very scary. My DD is in the 3rd percentile for weight. Are they going to take custody of underweight kids too?

 

THIS is exactly why I object to the emphasis on BMI for children. My oldest is very petite, and my younger two aren't large either. Scrawny children definitely run in my family, and in my husband's to a certain extent. Our pediatrician seems comfortable with it, luckily. (Although he did give me a funny look when I said that I was very small as a child, because I had gained a ton of weight with my second pregnancy and I was huge when I met him.)

 

I do think that some parents of obese children need to not just hear, but also take in the sometimes hard truth. I think that as a society we make a ton of excuses for weight. We blame the food, we blame genetics, we say that thin doesn't always equal healthy, and so on. While there is truth in a lot of those statements, I'm seeing far too many people passing on non-genetic "lifestyle diseases" to their children. I hear that the overweight people are the only ones left that can be discriminated against in open society, but my own experience is that it is taboo to suggest that anything other than a medical condition is to blame for someone's weight. And that makes it harder for people with true medical problems to be taken seriously.

 

My computer restarted halfway through this so I'm sure there are a ton of posts that have been put through while I was typing.

[twoforjoy]

The child is at significant risk in these extreme cases. 440 pounds at 16 with sleep apnea and diabetes? That is a death sentence.

 

If a child has sleep apnea and diabetes, then those conditions need to be treated, and if the parent isn't treating those conditions, that's a problem.

 

But, I don't believe that body size, no matter how extreme (at either end, overweight or underweight), is a valid reason to take a child away from his or her parents. Unless we're willing to take thin children who are fed lots of junk food away from their parents, I see no reason except for a prejudice against fat people to even consider taking fat children who are fed lots of junk food away.

 

And, when would this begin? I mean, we're starting to move from a war on obesity to a war on childhood obesity to now a war on infant obesity. My DD was 22 lbs. at 4 months. She was the fattest baby we'd ever seen. (She's still chubby at 16 months, but she's back on the growth charts.) Under absolutely no circumstances would I have put my exclusively-breastfed 4 month old baby on a diet (which thankfully our ped never even suggested--she was totally fine with DD's size). Should she have been removed from our care and put with a family who'd be willing to limit her food intake?

Edited July 14, 2011 by twoforjoy

[unsinkable]

The thing that really jumped out at me at the link was the picture of the mom and DD walking their dog.

 

Obese people should lose their pets, too. It's only a matter of time until the dog is an unhealthy weight.

[Teachin'Mine]

Very scary. My DD is in the 3rd percentile for weight. Are they going to take custody of underweight kids too? Or what about kids that have more than one asthma attack in a certain time frame? Will they be removed due to poor conditions?

 

These were my thoughts too.

[beaners]

It seems like weight is such an emotional trigger for people. I'm very curious to see what the responses, including my own, would look like if this was something else causing these kinds of health problems in such young people.

[Teachin'Mine]

The thing that really jumped out at me at the link was the picture of the mom and DD walking their dog.

 

Obese people should lose their pets, too. It's only a matter of time until the dog is an unhealthy weight.

 

:lol:

[thessa516]

Okay, so...

 

1. The government subsidizes the corn industry which leads to HFCS being pit into every.single.processed food in the country.

 

2. The government does not regulate advertising of junk food to minors so they get a constant barrage of encouragement to eat sugary, fat-filled junk.

 

3. The government schools serve lunches mostly devoid of any nutritional value, burgers, fried chicken fingers and the like, and does not restrict (or actually encourages, as a way to increase school funding) vending machines selling junk and sugar water on school property. This food is what most kids get for 1-2 meals of their entire childhoods.

 

4. This has been going on for long enough that the current crop of adults grew up this way and many have no idea how to cook a healthy meal, and also are "used" to eating this way and view it as normal.

 

5. Government planners over the past 50 years have designed an infrastructure that is so car-based that no one can walk or bike to anything because of either distance, or danger to one's life on roads with no accommodations for anything but cars, or both, meaning exercise is now a planned (and usually paid for) activity instead of something that happens naturally over the course of a day because you need to get somewhere (remember when kids walked or biked to school?)

 

6. So now we have a childhood obesity epidemic and the answer is that the government should take people's kids away, because they're going to do a better job. QED.

 

:banghead:

 

 

And don't forget that schools are doing away with recess. I'm right there with you banging my head against the wall!

[twoforjoy]

It seems like weight is such an emotional trigger for people. I'm very curious to see what the responses, including my own, would look like if this was something else causing these kinds of health problems in such young people.

 

But that's the problem. You can't make a clear connection between food intake, body size, and health problems. You just can't.

 

Many kids who eat tons of junk food are thin.

 

Many fat kids don't end up with diabetes, high blood pressure, or any other health issue.

 

And, there are kids with Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, and other "obesity-related" conditions who are normal weight or even underweight.

 

So, to just say "if a parent has a fat child, they must 1) be doing something wrong and 2) not care about their child's health" is simply not true. And the converse, that if their child is thin, that parent must be feeding their child well and that child must be perfectly health isn't true, either.

 

Of course it's emotional when people start making moral judgments about other people's parenting based on the body size of their child.

[lionfamily1999]

The thing that really jumped out at me at the link was the picture of the mom and DD walking their dog.

 

Obese people should lose their pets, too. It's only a matter of time until the dog is an unhealthy weight.

I disagree. I think they should be arrested and forced to stay in prison until we can rehabilitate them.

[Joanne]

I do think that some parents of obese children need to not just hear, but also take in the sometimes hard truth. I think that as a society we make a ton of excuses for weight. We blame the food, we blame genetics, we say that thin doesn't always equal healthy, and so on. While there is truth in a lot of those statements, I'm seeing far too many people passing on non-genetic "lifestyle diseases" to their children. I hear that the overweight people are the only ones left that can be discriminated against in open society, but my own experience is that it is taboo to suggest that anything other than a medical condition is to blame for someone's weight. And that makes it harder for people with true medical problems to be taken seriously.

 

.

 

Current research indicates that the obesity problem isn't a simply a function of too many calories and too little movement.

 

The assumptions made about fat people (and fat kids and their families) *are* discriminatory. My largest child, for example, is my most active. I am clinically obese, and I ate the least junk of my family, the most veggies, and have had more than one job for years.

[unsinkable]

I disagree. I think they should be arrested and forced to stay in prison until we can rehabilitate them.

 

Yes. Put the people and the dogs in prison. Fat People Puppy Prison.

[Impish]

Agreed.....parenting classes on it would certainly be a start.

 

Dawn

I'm not sure its a parenting issue...I think teaching more about healthy cooking, budgeting, etc would be a better option. Many parents are good parents, but lack skills and experience in making meals out of whole foods, budgeting for the more expensive, better quality foods.

 

Too many ppl have lost the skill of cooking. I've offered to teach a young man Wolf works with. He lives at home still, with his widowed mom. They eat out nightly. She works full time, and always has...and never learned to cook at all. If its not frozen, she doesn't have a clue what to do with it. Since she doesn't have the knowledge, she can't pass it on to her son.

 

Teaching ppl to make healthy food for their families would make a difference. Choosing the healthiest options from the frozen meal section still doesn't hold a candle to meals prepared from whole foods, from scratch.

[RahRah]

This may be true but I still don't believe that morbid obesity is a given even in this situation and is preventable. IMHO I believe that most cases of morbid obesity and obesity can be prevented I hope:)

 

I certainly hope it's preventable too! I know I don't think obesity is a given (barring genetic mutations), I just think that it's important to see the forest for the trees and keep in mind that there are a number of factors pre-disposing children (and adults) to obesity these days that were not necessarily in play twenty-thirty-forty years ago - namely the plethora of processed foods that are staple now in the diet of so many.

[FaithManor]

Current research indicates that the obesity problem isn't a simply a function of too many calories and too little movement.

 

The assumptions made about fat people (and fat kids and their families) *are* discriminatory. My largest child, for example, is my most active. I am clinically obese, and I ate the least junk of my family, the most veggies, and have had more than one job for years.

 

 

You preach it Joanna! So much has to do with genetics that it is ridiculous.

 

Dh eats an atrocious diet by comparison to the rest of us. He stashes and binges on tons of candy, drinks rivers of pop, wants heavy sauces on everything, eats enough cheese to be 1/2 dairy cow himself .....he's 6'0 " tall and weighs 150 lbs! I have to watch everything exercise two hours a day which as the homeschooling mother of 4 children and a very active 4-H leader AIN'T EASY PEOPLE ,and I have a chronic ankle injury to boot which means that IF I exercise that long, I am limping and in need of the physical therapist, and eat less than 750 calories per day in order to lose a single pound. Ever try to function long and exercise on 750 calories a day? On top of which, I am perniciously anemic and the medical community has not been able to come up with an adequate treatment plan for that. So, if I diet to lose weight, I have a hemoglobin that drops below 9!!!!!!! I have been told by more than one doctor that my problem is all in my head and that I am a lazy, chubby person. I have NO faith in the medical community anymore when it comes to nutrition, weight loss or gain (depending on the case), and preventative medicine/healthy lifestyle assistance.

 

GRRRRRRR............:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

Oh, and if morbidly obese children are going to be taken away from their parents, then they should be taken away from their schools too. If the parents get charged, the #$%^&* school administrators that buy and serve empty caloried, zero nutrition foods, eliminate recesses, and take away PE days so that more standardized test prep can be accomplished, should be charged as well!

 

Faith

[Pamela H in Texas]

I posted on another forum. Generally, no. However, in extreme circumstances where school-age children are double, triple or more their healthy weights? Maybe if in-home services do not prove fruitful (and assuming that medical reasons have been ruled out). It is severe neglect (and sometimes abuse) to allow a child to get to or remain at an extremely unhealthy weight. Again, we're not talking about "a little overweight," but instead those at risk of serious health issues that can lead to death, even in childhood!

 

But this is really a non-issue. CPS already gets involved in many of these cases (because they are neglect and/or abuse). Services are offered to the family to help them turn things around. The children *are* taken when the child is in continued danger. It doesn't happen often, but it SHOULDN'T.

 

I just hope no one is dumb about it. Seriously, when my daughter was young, I saw a Maury show (or something) that had a mom of a 30 pound one year old being "helped" so her kid didn't end up like the 120 pound 3 yr old also on the show. Well, *I* had a 32 pound 12month old who was 47 pounds at 24months old. Go figure that she was also a tall, healthy 47 pounder at FIVE. By 14, she was 5'5" and a size 4-8 (depending on brand). I think judging babies would be a dangerous situation. Kids change SO much at one, two, three years old.

 

And of course, I hope they aren't going to start freaking out about other kids just off the chart. But 300 pounds at 8 is more than just sad. The parent needs to be seeking all the help they can get and following through to help that child before he DIES. Will is be time consuming and possibly cost some money she doesn't really have? Maybe. But how is she going to feel calling 911 when her 8year old (or 10 or 13 or 18 year old) is having a heart attack or stroke from something she could have prevented or fixed with help?

 

ETA: And we *do* take extremely underweight children from their parents if it is obvious the parent is the problem or unwilling to find a solution. My three and four yr olds were starved (strangely, not their sister). The family kept getting services (in the home, kinship, fostercare). They have chosen not to stop starving their kids despite WIC and foodstamps. In care, the boys have gotten their weights raised only to be returned to their parents and starved some more. This time, after three months, I've gotten them to the 5th and 12th percentiles with the help of dieticians, psychologists, doctors, and WIC (for pediasure). They are not "naturally" so small they almost died when they got sick. They were starved to that point. Thankfully, though their parents refused medical care for their son, they did go to the hospital in the first place so someone knew this child was going to die if someone didn't step in. It would have been further neglect for them to have been left with their parents.

 

When children are to the point they could die tomorrow because of what their parents have done, YES, CPS needs to step in.

Edited July 14, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[WishboneDawn]

The thing that really jumped out at me at the link was the picture of the mom and DD walking their dog.

 

Obese people should lose their pets, too. It's only a matter of time until the dog is an unhealthy weight.

 

Really, they probably influence their friends and co-workers as well. Perhaps we should keep them confined to their houses?;)

[RahRah]

But that's the problem. You can't make a clear connection between food intake, body size, and health problems. You just can't.

 

Many kids who eat tons of junk food are thin.

 

Many fat kids don't end up with diabetes, high blood pressure, or any other health issue.

 

And, there are kids with Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, and other "obesity-related" conditions who are normal weight or even underweight.

 

So, to just say "if a parent has a fat child, they must 1) be doing something wrong and 2) not care about their child's health" is simply not true. And the converse, that if their child is thin, that parent must be feeding their child well and that child must be perfectly health isn't true, either.

 

Of course it's emotional when people start making moral judgments about other people's parenting based on the body size of their child.

 

These are the "trees" I'm talking about in my other post. BMI, on its own, can help identify a potential problem, but is isn't in and of itself, the determining factor for health or illness.

 

When we consider that 83% of kids are normal weight (2% are underweight, 10% are "at risk" for overweight/overweight by BMI, and 5% are obese by BMI, with 1% in the morbid category) - the question really begs - are the 83% "healthy"?

 

Do they eat "healthfully"?

 

Just looking around it's obvious to me that the vast majority of kids are not eating a really healthy diet - that the poor dietary habits just aren't affecting them as readily as those kids with genetics that pre-dispose them to weight gain under the same dietary circumstance.

 

This summer DS has been on swim team - 98% of the team is lean, just a couple of kids on the whole team are (visually) overweight and one is clearly obese (but a crazy fast swimmer, so activity does not seem to be relevant in his situation).

 

I'm appalled at what some of these kids eat daily!

 

Almost everyone brings snacks for after practice - I see kids with cups of ritz bits (three servings) + a 20-ounce soda, king size candy bars + soda, etc. - DS is one of only a handful of kids who doesn't just bring, but prefers baby carrots & cucumber slices with ranch dip with an honest kids water-juice pouch, or some good cheese with a couple of crackers and a bottle of water, or a cut up apple (no carmel dip either) and a carton of milk (plain). He's a kid that recently at the roller skating rink actually ordered milk while everyone around him was going nuts with the soda and candy. All he wanted was some milk, nothing else, he wasn't hungry. At dinner that night though, he ate really well when he was hungry - if I remember correctly it was broccoli (with butter), roasted chicken, and a salad. Interestingly he doesn't like starches, so doesn't eat much in the way of starchy foods.

 

Do I get credit for his, what I think are good, eating habits?

 

Well some would argue they're really poor eating habits - his milk is still whole, his ranch dip full-fat, his cheese a full-fat aged variety (raw to boot).

 

Some would argue he needs starchy foods like potatoes, rice and pasta, even though he doesn't like them without any input from me about their value in the diet or not.

 

Some might argue too that I've brainwashed him into thinking sugary foods aren't good for him and I'm depriving him of normal childhood things like sweets - which is only slightly true - he can have sugary snacks on occasion, as a treat, they're just not in our home except now and then, and even then, something like cookies are allowed in reasonable quantities - like two cookies for a treat, not a whole package!

 

The point I'm getting to is that I think defining what constitutes a healthful diet isn't always black and white, especially when the majority of kids are normal weight and eat so much crap. I consider myself lucky that DS, on his own, prefers healthier foods - I don't have to try to buck the trends he sees around him, he doesn't beg for junk food, he doesn't like fast food (if we're out and about and need to grab a bite to eat, he doesn't want McDonald's, he wants to stop at Panera for example) and he isn't really all that worried he eats things his friends don't, he almost seems not to care about peer pressure when it comes to food.

 

Now he is enticed by marketing though - not so much for the fast food, which he truly doesn't like (and that's probably because I cook most of our meals from scratch so he's not used to the taste of fast food) - but for things like breakfast cereal.....which, when he asks for it, I'll sometimes buy, which leads to it being tossed after a bowl because he just doesn't like cereals either - he likes the idea of them, the colorful boxes, but not the cereal itself, go figure?

 

The government has spent the last 30-odd years promoting the food pyramid (now my plate) to children, families and through various social programs like school lunches; they've subsidized corn to the point where HFCS is riddling foods never before sweetened; they speak out of both sides of their mouth about eating in moderation from everything out there, then chastize those who actually try to figure out what moderation is, while still eating utter crap all day; they talk a good story about how fast food is bad, bad, bad, but still then say everything in moderation is just fine, watch calories; they promote this idea that they know better than parents, yet feed kids total crap in schools, while calling it healthy because it meets the guidelines for fat and sodium; they've conducted so many experiments in a variety of neighborhoods and schools and still can't find any intervention that works, but will consider the idea that they should take kids from parents because they are the solution?

[BabyBre]

OMG. I think I'm going to be physically ill. This article and these people sicken me in so many ways.

 

Here's the last line of the article. The one they used to sum it all up.

 

"There's a stigma with state intervention. We just have to do it with caution and humility and make sure we really can say that our interventions are going to do more good than harm."

I'm going to be sick.

[unsinkable]

Really, they probably influence their friends and co-workers as well. Perhaps we should keep them confined to their houses?;)

 

You're right. Julie pointed it out, too.

 

We've decided on prison, for the people and the dogs.

 

Fat People Puppy Prison

[happyhomemaker25]

There is SO much wrong with this! As a former foster parent I need to say Foster Care needs to be reserved for EXTREME abuse cases.

If there needs to be any intervention it needs to be for the WHOLE family. In today's world it is not always do what mom and dad say. You can preach at that parents all you want, but if you don't get the kids on board it ain't gonna work. Yep, I said, ain't!

PP was correct about the government setting our kids up for obesity, with HFCS, advertising, and schools. Remember the Jamie Oliver show? Those schools were adamant about not changing their menu. French fries as a vegetable! Most schools would be like that, I bet.

For working moms I can't even imagine. My mom has a disability and worked full time, my dad was disabled with MD, my brother and I were the worst slackers. My mom worked until 7 or 8 at night sometimes and a lot of weekends. We ate a lot of fast food. We were all obese and I have health problems today. As parents though, they rocked! My dad was just not able and my mom was exhausted trying to keep our bills paid by herself and deal with a lot of medical issues with her and my dad. I so totally get the poor mom just trying to keep her kids out of the ghetto.

Also, let's be real. Most of us as adults grew up on a steady diet of junk food. A lot of times people have the "I grew up doing xyz and I'm ok!"

Foster care for a obese kid with bad eating habits would more than likely just be a joke.

[KrissiK]

I heard about this yesterday. It is wrong on so many levels. But, as someone who has had experience, albeit limited, with the foster care system (as a foster parent) and the corruption and idiocy within that system... it's scary actually, to think that they want just one more reason to take our children away from us.

[mommaduck]

Not unless there is proof that the parents are maliciously causing it.

 

:iagree:

 

Many times there are other issues at play and many of those not the fault of the parent.

[mommaduck]

But that's the problem. You can't make a clear connection between food intake, body size, and health problems. You just can't.

 

Many kids who eat tons of junk food are thin.

 

Many fat kids don't end up with diabetes, high blood pressure, or any other health issue.

 

And, there are kids with Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, and other "obesity-related" conditions who are normal weight or even underweight.

 

So, to just say "if a parent has a fat child, they must 1) be doing something wrong and 2) not care about their child's health" is simply not true. And the converse, that if their child is thin, that parent must be feeding their child well and that child must be perfectly health isn't true, either.

 

Of course it's emotional when people start making moral judgments about other people's parenting based on the body size of their child.

I ate a ton of junk food when I was underweight, trying desperately to gain weight (didn't happen till kids, then it took a couple to get to a good weight, and now I'm a bit overweight, but not unhealthy).

[FriedClams]

OMG. I think I'm going to be physically ill. This article and these people sicken me in so many ways.

 

Here's the last line of the article. The one they used to sum it all up.

 

"There's a stigma with state intervention. We just have to do it with caution and humility and make sure we really can say that our interventions are going to do more good than harm."

I'm going to be sick.

 

:iagree:

[pfamilygal]

I had a 3 yr old patient the other day who weighed 112. I informed her mom that she was running a high risk of diabetes and hypertension just because of her weight. Mama shrugged and said, "She likes to eat. What can I do? I mean, she can eat 4 Big Macs in one meal." GOOD GRIEF! I can't eat 1 Big Mac and I am a grown woman! And where does the child buy these Big Macs? Does she have a job? Give her a carrot!

 

She said the child doesn't like to exercise, she only likes TV. Again, how does she have a TV? Does she have a job? If you are buying the TV, you are responsible! Do something! Love your kid. Put the Big Mac and TV on a string and drag them around the yard so she will chase them if you have to to get her moving. But don't be passive! AAARGH!!!

 

That said, I don't think they should be taken from their homes, but there should be some sort of intervention. It is child abuse and it is deadly.

[Mrs Mungo]

he isn't really all that worried he eats things his friends don't, he almost seems not to care about peer pressure when it comes to food.

 

I'm just curious, is this a problem for a lot of kids? While helping me grocery shop the other day my son asked for broccoli and then said, "most of my friends hate broccoli, isn't that weird?" It didn't even occur to him that he might be the weird one. ;)

 

As a former foster parent I need to say Foster Care needs to be reserved for EXTREME abuse cases.

If there needs to be any intervention it needs to be for the WHOLE family.

 

:iagree:

 

I had a 3 yr old patient the other day who weighed 112. I informed her mom that she was running a high risk of diabetes and hypertension just because of her weight. Mama shrugged and said, "She likes to eat. What can I do? I mean, she can eat 4 Big Macs in one meal." GOOD GRIEF! I can't eat 1 Big Mac and I am a grown woman! And where does the child buy these Big Macs? Does she have a job? Give her a carrot!

 

She said the child doesn't like to exercise, she only likes TV. Again, how does she have a TV? Does she have a job? If you are buying the TV, you are responsible! Do something! Love your kid. Put the Big Mac and TV on a string and drag them around the yard so she will chase them if you have to to get her moving. But don't be passive! AAARGH!!!

 

Do you often see people like this? Or do you think this is the exception?

 

A separate question out of curiosity, would you know if a child ate lots of junk and did little exercise if they were not overweight? Are these questions that you regularly ask? The doctors are always asking my kids what they eat because they are really small, I just don't know if that's a normal line of questioning if a kid is at the 50th percentile.

[WeeBeaks]

Yeah, we should consider that right after the government severs all ties completely with the food industry including all subsidies, having former food giant CEOs on FDA, USDA, etc. :tongue_smilie:

 

Good grief.