Teacher Says Not All "Sex With Student" Stories Should Be Treated Equally

[tntgoodwin]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/06/plano_isd_teacher_says_not_all.php

 

I don't know how to feel about this...but I think I side with the teacher on this.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

Texas Educator Code of Ethics says, "the educator shall not solicit or engage in sexual conduct or a romantic relationship with a student." If you want to have sex with 18 year old high school students, then don't be a teacher. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

[merry gardens]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/06/plano_isd_teacher_says_not_all.php

 

I don't know how to feel about this...but I think I side with the teacher on this.

Ew! The guy has had a teacher certificate since 1979--that makes him around something like 50 years old when he was involved in a sexual encounter with an 18 yo high school student from another high school. I side with those who took away his credentials.

[katilac]

Texas Educator Code of Ethics says, "the educator shall not solicit or engage in sexual conduct or a romantic relationship with a student." If you want to have sex with 18 year old high school students, then don't be a teacher. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

Um, yeah, this. Not having sex with 18-yr-old high school students hardly seems like a daunting sacrifice for a teacher to make. As this particular teacher is 50-something at the youngest, his taste for much younger females could easily be indulged with 19- or 20-year olds who have actually graduated, no?

[SonshineLearner]

But "a student" to me would be meaning "a student of his"... not just any student. I mean... the person, age wise, was AT LEAST college age. As long as it wasn't HIS student, I'm not thinking it's the same... at all. NOW, whether I'd want it for my 18 year old... not at all. BUT, I don't think it's statutory rape or anything. (because it's not) and it's not unethical... because... neither of them had anything to gain. (grade wise)

I think he's totally right about it not being the same....

[tntgoodwin]

Ew! The guy has had a teacher certificate since 1979--that makes him around something like 50 years old when he was involved in a sexual encounter with an 18 yo high school student from another high school. I side with those who took away his credentials.

 

Because it's "yucky"?

[Nakia]

Texas Educator Code of Ethics says, "the educator shall not solicit or engage in sexual conduct or a romantic relationship with a student." If you want to have sex with 18 year old high school students, then don't be a teacher. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

Exactly! That guy is a jack*ss!

[EKS]

But "a student" to me would be meaning "a student of his"... not just any student. I mean... the person, age wise, was AT LEAST college age. As long as it wasn't HIS student, I'm not thinking it's the same... at all. NOW, whether I'd want it for my 18 year old... not at all. BUT, I don't think it's statutory rape or anything. (because it's not) and it's not unethical... because... neither of them had anything to gain. (grade wise)

I think he's totally right about it not being the same....

 

:iagree:

[DawnM]

I don't remember jack*ass being a criteria for losing a teaching license though.

 

I do side with the teacher on this one. It was stupid and gives me the willies, but it wasn't in any way illegal. She didn't even go to his school.

 

We had some teachers who had sex with 18 year olds in our district. They didn't lose their jobs. And they were actually THEIR students. It was gross, but again, not illegal.

 

Dawn

 

Exactly! That guy is a jack*ss!

[merry gardens]

Because it's "yucky"?

No, not just because it's yucky, but because he shows poor judgement. He's a fifty plus year old man who engaged in sexual relations with a high school teenager in a martial arts studio! It's not a matter of if it was legal--his behavior showed poor judgement with high school students. What he did was not appropriate. As a society, we can and should hold public school teachers to higher standards. People with very poor judgement who engage in sex with high school students shouldn't be entrusted to teach other people's children.

Edited June 23, 2011 by merry gardens

[Mrs Mungo]

But "a student" to me would be meaning "a student of his"... not just any student. I mean... the person, age wise, was AT LEAST college age. As long as it wasn't HIS student, I'm not thinking it's the same... at all. NOW, whether I'd want it for my 18 year old... not at all. BUT, I don't think it's statutory rape or anything. (because it's not) and it's not unethical... because... neither of them had anything to gain. (grade wise)

I think he's totally right about it not being the same....

 

I don't think it's statutory rape either. That has nothing to do with him being fired.

[Camarell]

I agree it's on the disgusting side, but the girl is 18 and a student in another county. The rules against teachers getting involved with students stems from the idea that you don't want a student feeling threatened by the authority the teacher has. But this teacher wouldn't have had any kind of authority over this student. I think it's wrong on a personal level, but I don't think he should loose his credentials and thus his means of supporting himself, just because people don't like the idea of a 40yr age span...

[Nakia]

I don't remember jack*ass being a criteria for losing a teaching license though.

 

I do side with the teacher on this one. It was stupid and gives me the willies, but it wasn't in any way illegal. She didn't even go to his school.

 

We had some teachers who had sex with 18 year olds in our district. They didn't lose their jobs. And they were actually THEIR students. It was gross, but again, not illegal.

 

Dawn

 

 

Of course you can be a jack*ss and still hold a teaching license. That point is proven every day.

 

It might not be illegal, but it is unethical as cited above by Mrs. Mungo. He doesn't deserve to have his license back, not because he's a jack*ss, but because he had sex with a student. Like, Mungo said, "cut and dry".

 

 

Side note: For those of you that believe he should not have his teaching credentials revoked, would you feel the same way if it were your 18 year old daughter/son?

[Mama2Many4]

On this case I have to agree with the teacher. You can be a 50 year old student in college. Should he not be able to have intercourse with middle aged women as well? Also, while I agree that to some a 50 year old man and an 18 year old woman might seem "yucky", some men at 50 look darn good for their age. My husband is almost 46 and I'm only going to be 33 and he doesn't look his age at all.

 

One last note is that some 18 year old's are very mature. When you reach a certain age, it is just a number.

[Nakia]

BTW, I have no issue with the actual age difference. My sister dates a man older than our parents. I have no problem with it.

[GoVanGogh]

I do side with the teacher on this one. It was stupid and gives me the willies, but it wasn't in any way illegal. She didn't even go to his school.

But it is illegal in Texas for a teacher to have a relationship with ANY student that is enrolled in the public school system. It doesn't matter if the student is over the age of 18 or enrolled in another school than the teacher teaches in. It is still illegal in this state.

[Mrs Mungo]

And what if she moves to his district? The code of conduct says "no sex with students." To me, it implies any and all high school and below students. If you don't like the code of conduct, then don't teach in Texas. Apparently, there are states that tolerate it.

[katilac]

Whether or not one agrees with the rules, the fact of the matter is that the rules are in place, and he willfully broke them. I've worked in places that had far less reasonable rules, and guess what? If I wanted to work there, I followed the rules.

[merry gardens]

And what if she moves to his district? The code of conduct says "no sex with students." To me, it implies any and all high school and below students. If you don't like the code of conduct, then don't teach in Texas. Apparently, there are states that tolerate it.

Yes. That's a good point. I like Texas. I wish I lived there sometimes. Some of us taxpayers and parents in other states don't want to tolerate this type of behavior either.

 

A teacher who engages in sex with high school students places his school district at higher risk for lawsuits and potentially heavy financial damages to cover the cost of his sexual exploits. He risks damaging the finances and reputation of the schools where he works. He jepordizes the trust the public places in our public schools and our public school teachers. Some parents (like me!) stay away from schools where sex scandals involving teachers or authority figures have happened in the past.

[twoforjoy]

They shouldn't all be treated equally. There is an enormous difference between, say, a middle school teacher having sex with one of the students in his/her class, and a teacher having sex with an 18-year-old student who goes to an entirely different school.

 

I think a teacher having sex (as in this case, consensual sex with an of-age student) with a student who is in their class or would they could reasonably expect to be in their class (so any student in the school) is a conflict of interest and breach of ethics. In that case, I can understand it being an ethical violation and losing their license. I do not think there's any reason for the personal lives of teachers to be policed beyond that, though.

 

In this case, he broke the policy, and I don't think it's unjust that he lost his license. I don't agree with the rule personally, though.

Edited June 24, 2011 by twoforjoy

[AmyTompkins]

I don't know how to feel about this...but I think I side with the teacher on this.

 

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children; or the moral relativism of our culture that says, "Gee, I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for grandpa to have sex with a high school student."!!!

 

This coward even has the audacity to say, "But she started it!". Classy.

 

What class should he be allowed to teach now? How to Abdicate Responsibility 101?

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

[twoforjoy]

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children; or the moral relativism of our culture that says, "Gee, I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for grandpa to have sex with a high school student."!!!

 

Wow.

 

In what sense is this man a "creepy predator"? Was he out hiding in the bushes waiting for an 18-year-old adult woman to come by so he could manipulate and seduce her? I'm just not sure how he was "preying" on this woman. According to the story, by her own admission she initiated the two sexual encounters.

 

And, is it "moral relativism" to recognize that there are differences between a 13-year-old and an 18-year-old when it comes to their ability to enter into a consensual sexual relationship?

 

Again, I'm very troubled with how we apply the "predator" label to adults who have consensual sexual relationships with older teens, and in this case, with legal adults. It does us no good, as a society, to act as if that is no different from the adult who manipulates, coerces, or forces a child or young teen into having sex.

Edited June 24, 2011 by twoforjoy

[Joy at Home]

BTW, I have no issue with the actual age difference. My sister dates a man older than our parents. I have no problem with it.

 

So then it's his profession that's the issue? See, the fact that she is not HIS student is the distinction for me. Falls squarely into the private realm for me.

 

Lisa

[Joy at Home]

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children; or the moral relativism of our culture that says, "Gee, I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for grandpa to have sex with a high school student."!!!

 

This coward even has the audacity to say, "But she started it!". Classy.

 

What class should he be allowed to teach now? How to Abdicate Responsibility 101?

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

 

Fifty year old men sleeping with eighteen year old girls is nothing new. The fact that he is a teacher would only seem relevant if she were a student in his school. Saying that he slept with a student is misleading.

 

Lisa

[elizabeth]

I agree not all offenders should be treated equally, he should be locked in a room with me for an hour explaining to him why he should go to prison for being a vile, abusive, controlling, self aggrandizing troll who cannot have realtaionships with real women his own age as they would see right through his act. Thus, no not all sex with students stories should be treated equally. I hope he fails miserably and is kicked to the curb but in this day and age you pretty much have to be Hannibal Lecter to be fired.

[elizabeth]

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children; or the moral relativism of our culture that says, "Gee, I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for grandpa to have sex with a high school student."!!!

 

This coward even has the audacity to say, "But she started it!". Classy.

 

What class should he be allowed to teach now? How to Abdicate Responsibility 101?

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

 

I am building a shrine to you at this very moment. Until it is done may I just say BRAVO!!!

[Parrothead]

But it is illegal in Texas for a teacher to have a relationship with ANY student that is enrolled in the public school system. It doesn't matter if the student is over the age of 18 or enrolled in another school than the teacher teaches in. It is still illegal in this state.

If that is what the law says in his state, then so be it. Doesn't mean I agree with it since they were both consenting adults. He did break the law. If all he lost was his credential he should count himself lucky.

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children; or the moral relativism of our culture that says, "Gee, I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for grandpa to have sex with a high school student."!!!

 

This coward even has the audacity to say, "But she started it!". Classy.

 

What class should he be allowed to teach now? How to Abdicate Responsibility 101?

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

I'd agree with you 100 percent if this young woman was a child. But she is 18. She is as much an adult as the man she chose to have s3x with. The only reason this couple made the news is because she was a student, he was a teacher. If she were graduated and he were a banker this would be a non-story.

[joannqn]

If you read the comments on the article, someone hunted down the definition of student in the employment contract...someone age 18 and under enrolled in primary or secondary school, etc. If this really is what his contract stated, he does deserve to lose his job.

[Laurie]

I am not sure what is more disgusting and infuriating: The creepy predator who clearly has little self control and should not be in a position of authority over children;

 

!

 

He's a high school teacher, isn't he? We allow these high school "children" to get a driver's license and at 18 we require the males to register for the Selective Service. Many of them are employed in real jobs...not lemonade stands in their front yards. And the schools are often involved with teaching them how to have safe sex with a partner. If they're "children" why are we allowing any of this?

[AmyTompkins]

But "a student" to me would be meaning "a student of his"... not just any student. I mean... the person, age wise, was AT LEAST college age.

 

Actually, she was a senior in high school per the article. So as long as it was a high school senior from another school sleeping with gramps, that's all good?

 

 

and it's not unethical... because... neither of them had anything to gain. (grade wise)

 

un-eth-i-cal

 

–adjective 1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.

 

2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, especially the standards of a profession.

I think he's totally right about it not being the same....

[Impish]

Sounds like his contract clearly states that ANY person 18 and under, enrolled in school.

 

So, he was in violation, period.

 

A little self control goes a long way. Not really that difficult to say 'no' and keep your pants on.

[pdalley]

Sounds like his contract clearly states that ANY person 18 and under, enrolled in school.

 

So, he was in violation, period.

 

A little self control goes a long way. Not really that difficult to say 'no' and keep your pants on.

 

:iagree: He couldn't wait until she graduated? I expect a 50 year old to have developed some self control.

[Truscifi]

I don't have a problem with an 18yo and a 50yo choosing to have sex, and according to what I've read it is not illegal in his state - BUT it did violate the terms of his contract. And he was fired based on that violation.

 

I wonder, though, since she was from another district and he met her during the break, did he know she had not yet graduated? I would think an 18yo had graduated unless told otherwise. Also, how did this become common knowledge?

[DawnM]

I would hate the guy weather my child were 18 or 20 or maybe even 30. The guy is a creep.

 

However, I still don't think legally he should lose his license.

 

Now, I did miss the part about his actual contract stating clearly that he could not have sex with anyone still enrolled in any Texas high school. I still don't see it but that doesn't mean it isn't there, just that I haven't taken the time to find it.

 

Dawn

 

Of course you can be a jack*ss and still hold a teaching license. That point is proven every day.

 

It might not be illegal, but it is unethical as cited above by Mrs. Mungo. He doesn't deserve to have his license back, not because he's a jack*ss, but because he had sex with a student. Like, Mungo said, "cut and dry".

 

 

Side note: For those of you that believe he should not have his teaching credentials revoked, would you feel the same way if it were your 18 year old daughter/son?

[AmyTompkins]

Wow.

 

In what sense is this man a "creepy predator"? Was he out hiding in the bushes waiting for an 18-year-old adult woman to come by so he could manipulate and seduce her? I'm just not sure how he was "preying" on this woman. According to the story, by her own admission she initiated the two sexual encounters.

 

And, is it "moral relativism" to recognize that there are differences between a 13-year-old and an 18-year-old when it comes to their ability to enter into a consensual sexual relationship?

 

Again, I'm very troubled with how we apply the "predator" label to adults who have consensual sexual relationships with older teens, and in this case, with legal adults. It does us no good, as a society, to act as if that is no different from the adult who manipulates, coerces, or forces a child or young teen into having sex.

 

By your line of thinking it should be fine for me to have consentual sex with my friend's attractive 18 year old son who is quite flirtatious and certainly capable of initiating an encounter. There should be no consideration for the fact that, as a 36 year old woman with a bit more life experience under my belt I should probably exercise some restraint and be the adult in the situation because my maturity allows me to see aspects of the situation and potential repercussions that his immature, but legal, brain cannot fathom at this time. The legality of an issue need not be the same as the morality of an issue.

 

If she were graduated and he were a banker this would be a non-story.

 

He is not a banker. He is an educator entrusted with the shaping of other people's children. And it is he who is whining about the consequences of his actions.

 

To prey, as a predator is to exert a harmful or destructive influence. I think this coward certainly has accomplished that.

[Parrothead]

By your line of thinking it should be fine for me to have consentual sex with my friend's attractive 18 year old son who is quite flirtatious and certainly capable of initiating an encounter. There should be no consideration for the fact that, as a 36 year old woman with a bit more life experience under my belt I should probably exercise some restraint and be the adult in the situation because my maturity allows me to see aspects of the situation and potential repercussions that his immature, but legal, brain cannot fathom at this time. The legality of an issue need not be the same as the morality of an issue.

 

If she were graduated and he were a banker this would be a non-story.

 

He is not a banker. He is an educator entrusted with the shaping of other people's children. And it is he who is whining about the consequences of his actions.

 

To prey, as a predator is to exert a harmful or destructive influence. I think this coward certainly has accomplished that.

We've at least one woman on this board with such an age span as you've described with yourself and your son's friend. I don't see anything wrong with an 18 or even 25 or more year difference in a couple. And if all the couple is doing is having s3x as long as it is consensual between adults it is nobody's business.

 

I said earlier he has to face up with the breaking of his contract, or the law, which ever is the case. No, he shouldn't whine about the consequences of his actions. But that is the only place I can fault him or her.

[AmyTompkins]

Fifty year old men sleeping with eighteen year old girls is nothing new. The fact that he is a teacher would only seem relevant if she were a student in his school. Saying that he slept with a student is misleading.

 

Lisa

 

Well with that line of thinking, seeing that YOU are your daughter's educator, your daughter will have a plethora of 50+ year old men to choose from in just four short years!

 

It is abhorrent that this mouse of a man is arrogantly insisting that other parents should be forced to accept his "leadership" and guidance with their high school aged children. Ridiculous.

[AmyTompkins]

I agree not all offenders should be treated equally, he should be locked in a room with me for an hour explaining to him why he should go to prison for being a vile, abusive, controlling, self aggrandizing troll who cannot have realtaionships with real women his own age as they would see right through his act. Thus, no not all sex with students stories should be treated equally. I hope he fails miserably and is kicked to the curb but in this day and age you pretty much have to be Hannibal Lecter to be fired.

 

Thank God for reasonable people! Yay! :iagree:

[justamouse]

We've at least one woman on this board with such an age span as you've described with yourself and your son's friend. I don't see anything wrong with an 18 or even 25 or more year difference in a couple. And if all the couple is doing is having s3x as long as it is consensual between adults it is nobody's business.

 

I said earlier he has to face up with the breaking of his contract, or the law, which ever is the case. No, he shouldn't whine about the consequences of his actions. But that is the only place I can fault him or her.

:iagree:

 

I have no room to talk, when my Dh was graduating HS, I was in grammar school. We play that game all the time-where you when-I was learning to crawl, hun.

Edited June 24, 2011 by justamouse

[tntgoodwin]

Well with that line of thinking, seeing that YOU are your daughter's educator, your daughter will have a plethora of 50+ year old men to choose from in just four short years!

 

It is abhorrent that this mouse of a man is arrogantly insisting that other parents should be forced to accept his "leadership" and guidance with their high school aged children. Ridiculous.

 

Out of curiousity, would you feel the same if it were a 50 year old woman and an 18 year old man?

[AmyTompkins]

We've at least one woman on this board with such an age span as you've described with yourself and your son's friend. I don't see anything wrong with an 18 or even 25 or more year difference in a couple. And if all the couple is doing is having s3x as long as it is consensual between adults it is nobody's business.

 

I said earlier he has to face up with the breaking of his contract, or the law, which ever is the case. No, he shouldn't whine about the consequences of his actions. But that is the only place I can fault him or her.

 

I am not talking about an age span for Pete's sake! I am talking about a grown man who is entrusted with the education of our children. I do not think moral decency, self control, and maturity are too much to expect from government employees who are "teaching", and I use that term very loosely here, our kids on the taxpayers payroll. The people of Texas have to pay for this crap!

 

Just because you are legally "allowed" to do something doesn't make it right to do so. You cannot legislate morality, that comes from within. So he has low morals, good for him, now get another line of work, bucko! Asking the citizens of Texas to pay his bills is out of bounds!

[Mrs Mungo]

Out of curiousity, would you feel the same if it were a 50 year old woman and an 18 year old man?

 

I would feel more strongly if it were an older woman. But, that is just me.

[Parrothead]

I am not talking about an age span for Pete's sake! I am talking about a grown man who is entrusted with the education of our children. I do not think moral decency, self control, and maturity are too much to expect from government employees who are "teaching", and I use that term very loosely here, our kids on the taxpayers payroll. The people of Texas have to pay for this crap!

 

Just because you are legally "allowed" to do something doesn't make it right to do so. You cannot legislate morality, that comes from within. So he has low morals, good for him, now get another line of work, bucko! Asking the citizens of Texas to pay his bills is out of bounds!

Oh, well, I was confused when you asked about yourself and your teen son's friend and mentioned the 18 year age gap you share. I'm sure you can see how one would think you were speaking of age span.

 

As for this particular teacher, I'll say it for a third time, no I don't agree that he has the right to whine about loosing his job. He broke the rule he suffers the consequences.

[annandatje]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/06/plano_isd_teacher_says_not_all.php

 

I don't know how to feel about this...but I think I side with the teacher on this.

 

:iagree:

[Parrothead]

I would feel more strongly if it were an older woman. But, that is just me.

I personally know a couple where she is much older than he. At least 20 years. They've been married longer than I have. It works for them.

[Mrs Mungo]

People accept conditions for jobs all of the time. He broke the ethical code of conduct for teachers in Texas. That is the bottom line.

[justamouse]

I personally know a couple where she is much older than he. At least 20 years. They've been married longer than I have. It works for them.

 

On my old street there was a 62 YO woman (who in no way looked her age) and a 31 yo man. I have to admit, when they first moved there I though he was her son. Thankfully I kept that thought to myself and didn't ahve to use the crowbar to get my foot out of my mouth.

 

As for the teacher, suck it up, you signed on the line.

[Mrs Mungo]

I personally know a couple where she is much older than he. At least 20 years. They've been married longer than I have. It works for them.

 

I am specifically talking about a case like this-where the hypothetical woman would be a teacher and the hypothetical 18 year old is a student.

 

I expect women to have more self control than men. If they don't have it, then they don't belong in charge of a classroom full of their sex partner's peers. That is wrong.

[tntgoodwin]

Did he know for sure she was a student?

[Mrs Mungo]

Did he know for sure she was a student?

 

Did you read the other thread that explained if you are over 21 in many states you are committing a felony if you have sex with an underage girl? Men should know about their sex partners if they don't want to wind up in jail.