Christian Content: Am I the only one who can't deal with "The Excellent Wife"?

[*anj*]

I started reading this book again today for the third of fourth time.

I think I'm done with it.

The first time I tried to read it was several years ago and I stopped because I thought she was judgmental.

I started again because I got busy doing other things and it didn't hold my interest.

I started again today but her tone irritates me, I think she's condescending, and I don't think the book is very well written.

 

Unless of course, I'm just rejecting what she says because I am self centered and immature, which is possible.

 

But I don't think I'll try it again. Many people have recommended it to me, some say it changed their marriages completely, but it just leaves me cold.

 

And now I'm going to bed. Nighty night!:bigear:

[Jami]

Nope, I couldn't choke it down either. And I like some of the Wilsons' books, so I can deal with a little "tone". I heard her speak in person actually, at a women's conference at my parents' church. I didn't care for her style, despite generally agreeing with her on most things. (As I remember, there could be specific things I take issue with in her teaching itself and not just her style). So no, not just you. ;)

 

Jami

[Sue G in PA]

You're not alone. I bought it, started to read it, wanted to vomit and never looked at it again! I'm all for being an "excellent wife"...just couldn't stand the "tone" of that book!

[Sophia]

Now I see I'm in good company:grouphug:

 

I wanted to like it...just couldn't.

[CalicoKat]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

My mom threw it in her fire pit.

 

 

I am my mother's daughter. :D

[PinkInTheBlue]

Not my thing either. My husband still insists I'm an excellent wife, so I seemed to manage without her. Amazing, huh? ;) lol

[chickenpatty]

I've tried to read it a couple of times, but haven't had much success. I don't have anything against it - it just didn't hold my attention. :confused: It is still sitting on my shelf.

[A.J. at J.A.]

Some of you should post your copies on bookmooch. I would like to take a look at the book but don't want to actually pay money for it (our library doesn't have it) in case I don't like it either. ;)

[OnTheBrink]

We did that book for ladies bible study, years ago. I can't remember if it was one of the ones we hated or not. I'll have to reread it now!

[nancypants]

I think a lot of her books have "tone" issues.... to the point that they might actually be content issues! :lol: I haven't read it and probably won't.

[battlemaiden]

I threw it across the room. Really. My dh said that the book was making me act "weird" and if it made me feel better he would "forbid" me to read it:lol:. He's never forbade me to do anything.

 

I'm just not *that* sort of excellent wife- but when I'm my dh's sort, everyone's happy.

 

Jo

[Mrs Mungo]

Have you tried Captivating ? It felt very freeing to me.

[*anj*]

Okay, thanks everyone. I'm glad it's not just me. I can handle a certain kind of "tone" (I've read a couple of Nancy Wilson's books too.) But there is something about this woman. It's kind of a "church lady" tone. And Nancy, yeah, I think that her "tone" is probably "content" too. Offering it on Bookmooch is a good idea, I could do that. Of course I should write a note in it saying that I wasn't able to deal with it, so the new owner shouldn't let herself feel bound to it either.

 

I agree with the rest of you, I do want to be an excellent wife, but I'm just not clicking with that author at all.

 

Mrs. Mungo: Nope, I've never heard of that one, but I will zoom over to Amazon and have a look at it! Thanks! :auto:

[Another Lynn]

I read it several years ago and don't remember a lot of it now. If you agree with the general idea you might enjoy Feminine Appeal by Carolyn Mohaney (if I'm remembering her name right). For one she has 7 major things she pulls out from Titus 2 with a chapter on each. The organization alone makes it easier to remember and *possibly* apply (some day, LOL!).

[angela in ohio]

Oh, thank you. I enjoy Nancy Wilson's book; I have even read and learned from "that" book (that will not be mentioned for fear of this thread going up in flames), so it's not like I have an issue with the topic. But The Excellent Wife was hard for me to read. I thought I must be alone. sniff...sniff... thank you for your validation of my feelings...

 

Edit: Lynn is right, too, Feminine Appeal is an incredible book!!

[*anj*]

I read it several years ago and don't remember a lot of it now. If you agree with the general idea you might enjoy Feminine Appeal by Carolyn Mohaney (if I'm remembering her name right). For one she has 7 major things she pulls out from Titus 2 with a chapter on each. The organization alone makes it easier to remember and *possibly* apply (some day, LOL!).

 

You want a really big laugh, Lynn?

I already own Feminine Appeal!!! :lol:

When I read your post I thought "That title sounds familiar, I wonder if I have it?"

I went and looked and lo and behold: there it was on my bookshelf!

So I'll try it. I am so bad that way...buying books and then leaving them on the shelf til I forget I own them.... ;)

[*anj*]

Oh, thank you. I enjoy Nancy Wilson's book; I have even read and learned from "that" book (that will not be mentioned for fear of this thread going up in flames), so it's not like I have an issue with the topic. But The Excellent Wife was hard for me to read. I thought I must be alone. sniff...sniff... thank you for your validation of my feelings...

 

Edit: Lynn is right, too, Feminine Appeal is an incredible book!!

 

What is "that" book?

I have no idea!!!

PM me if you're really concerned about a flame war!! :D

[Soph the vet]

I read it a long time ago and really can't remember what impact it had...must not have been much:001_smile:. I would just stick with the text of Proverbs 31 itself. There is enough to chew on there without reading someone else's take on it.

[...................]

strong opinios on Biblical submission and femininity, and am pretty conservative. But I never finished The Excellent Wife either.

 

I have heard of Feminine Appeal and it's on my wish list.

 

I will say that since I have put the content of The Excellent Wife into practice, my marriage is almost perfect. By God's grace I believe my husband feels much more respected and therefore loved, and I feel happier and more kind. I love to "minister" to him with good food, ready on the table when possible with a pretty tablecloth, and I pretty much sex him up whenever he wants it (which is often) We talk about everything and we have so much FUN. I used to try to do housework WHILE my husband was trying to talk but now I sit with him and look in his eyes and let the housework go.

 

But there was a time when I would complain about sex and give it anyway (complain in my heart), where I would be annoyed that he was talking while I was trying to do housework, when I would be so upset that he wasn't helping with the kids and I was exhausted, but I would do it all anyway.

 

Now my heart is different and no book did it. It was the humbling through personal sins, the trials that strengthened both of us and the wisdom given from older women in my church. They advised me to stop what I was doing and spend time with my husband (because his Love Language is Quality Time). Now, if I am exhausted I just ask for help. Go figure.

 

And if I really feel like the housework MUST be done NOW, I tell my husband, "Honey i really want to talk about this. Let me get some work done and we'll meet in 45 minutes." Then I set the timer for 45 minutes and do my work and then make a little wine and cheese snack.

 

No book could tell me to act this way toward my wonderful man. God changed my heart of pride, sinfulness, annoyance, frustration and judgement and turned it towards utter thankfulness, love, appreciation, and desire to minister to him and love him.

 

And the practical advice of my friends was also helpful.

 

I'm not saying not to read any books, but if you want to be a better wife the BEST thing to do is pray, pray, pray that God would continue to humble you and teach you and make you desire, and then to put a few Godly older women in your life that you can ask for advice once in a while.

 

:grouphug:

 

By the way, once that desire comes, a GREAT practical (though secular) book is "The Care and Feeding of Husbands" I loved it.

[Sweetpeach]

My favourites for marriage/relationship building/freedom and joy in the midst of partnership:

 

Captivated by John/Stacy Eldredge (already recommended above but it's so good -- I read it with my heart . . . )

 

Love and Respect (can't remember the author off the top of my head)

 

T

[angela in ohio]

Now my heart is different and no book did it. It was the humbling through personal sins, the trials that strengthened both of us and the wisdom given from older women in my church.

 

No book could tell me to act this way toward my wonderful man.

 

 

Gently.... Some don't have older women in the church who follow this path, so a book is a necessity. I know half a dozen women (plus myself) who have better marriages because a book opened their eyes to the sin they were committing in their marriages. God uses many ways... :001_smile:

[...................]

I'm NOT saying not to buy a book. I totally understand and agree with that, and I am glad you took the time to clarify it. There have been times in my own life when a book was a great thing. But *if* it's available, Godly older women can be very helpful. That's all. I encourage women to seek out the older women, sometimes you can meet them through CBS or BSF. I've spent my Christian life finding and chasing after older women and pursuing relationships with them, even when it seemed like I'd rather spend my time pursuing play dates at the park. But it really paid off, as now I have 3 older women who are all Godly and wise, that I regularly call and speak with. I know I'm very blessed but I would add and encourage that it took a lot of work, and humbleness on my part to make myself part of their lives. ;)

[Dayle in Guatemala]

but, I don't tend to read those kinds of books. Not only does it make me feel guilty about not being the kind of wife the author thinks I should be (and I have to say, I agree with you about the tone), but, I start to become more concerned about appearances and what people think about me as a wife, mom, or woman in general. Not overwhelmingly, but, it becomes a little thought in the back of my mind..."How would so and so think, or handle this?"

 

In order for me to be the kind of wife/mom/woman I should be, I need to go to the source, which is for me the Bible. If I can apply the principles in there to my life, then my heart and sould have changed, not just the appearances I want to give to people outside my family or home. I can start to have a servant's heart, I can be more unselfish, I can do things with excellence and a good attitude. As I allow God to change my heart and soul, all these other things fall into place.

 

Anyway that's just my thoughts on why, for me, personally, I don't tend to read those!:001_smile:

[*anj*]

strong opinios on Biblical submission and femininity, and am pretty conservative. But I never finished The Excellent Wife either.

 

 

Lots of good points, CT. Your posts are always so encouraging! :001_smile:

[OnTheBrink]

I want to know what "that" book is, too!

 

I liked Love and Respect, as well as The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. I think they both say basically the same thing; L&R is from a Christian POV; TPC&FOH isn't.

[Jami]

but, I don't tend to read those kinds of books. Not only does it make me feel guilty about not being the kind of wife the author thinks I should be (and I have to say, I agree with you about the tone), but, I start to become more concerned about appearances and what people think about me as a wife, mom, or woman in general. Not overwhelmingly, but, it becomes a little thought in the back of my mind..."How would so and so think, or handle this?"

 

In order for me to be the kind of wife/mom/woman I should be, I need to go to the source, which is for me the Bible. If I can apply the principles in there to my life, then my heart and sould have changed, not just the appearances I want to give to people outside my family or home. I can start to have a servant's heart, I can be more unselfish, I can do things with excellence and a good attitude. As I allow God to change my heart and soul, all these other things fall into place.

 

Anyway that's just my thoughts on that!:001_smile:

 

I think you make some good points here, Dayle. I know early in my marriage and parenting life I certainly struggled more with disappointment and anger after reading books about how it "ought" to be. Particularly with poor dh. ;) Now that I feel like I have a bit of a foundation of experience and know myself and how our family works best, and have been taught well in a couple different churches, there are books which serve as good motivators and reminders. I rarely read expecting new, profound insights in these areas, but I do appreciate the reminders to be living out what I already believe to be true.

 

For *anj*, if you're book gathering for your own encouragement, "Your Family a Place of Grace" really worked on my "issues". I'm a controller and want to make others act the way I expect them too and tend to emphasize law over grace in my relationships. So this was the "marriage changing" (and parenting changing) book for me.

 

Jami

[*anj*]

 

For *anj*, if you're book gathering for your own encouragement, "Your Family a Place of Grace" really worked on my "issues".

 

The Susan Hunt book?

I've got it!!!

It's on my upstairs shelf.

Yikes, this is really bad.

Well, I've told you all that I used to spend money like it was water. Here's the evidence! :glare:

[Jami]

Oh, that is the Susan Hunt title, isn't it.

 

LOL.

 

I do have that book and enjoy it, but I think I meant Jeff VanVonderen's "Families Where Grace is in Place". Let me check my shelf....

 

 

Yes, I meant VanVonderen's book. Silly me. Though any of Susan Hunt's books would certainly be an excellent alternative to the Peace book.

 

Jami--book junky

[*anj*]

but, I don't tend to read those kinds of books. Not only does it make me feel guilty about not being the kind of wife the author thinks I should be (and I have to say, I agree with you about the tone), but, I start to become more concerned about appearances and what people think about me as a wife, mom, or woman in general. Not overwhelmingly, but, it becomes a little thought in the back of my mind..."How would so and so think, or handle this?"

 

 

 

Dayle, you've made many good points. I think that the Bible is the best place to start too. You become a more godly wife by becoming a more godly human being, and you don't really need a self help book for that! :)

 

But sometimes it's just nice to read a book that gives the biblical perspective from a "girl chat" point of view. I like being challenged, but I don't like being chided and I think that's what some of those books do, you know what I mean.

And yes, unfortunately I think it's human nature to start to use some of these books as check off lists and then we can feel all good about ourselves and superior. Constant struggle, isn't it?

[*anj*]

 

Yes, I meant VanVonderen's book. Silly me. Though any of Susan Hunt's books would certainly be an excellent alternative to the Peace book.

 

Jami--book junky

 

Aha!

Okay, thanks.

Another title to add to the list. :001_smile:

[Dayle in Guatemala]

But sometimes it's just nice to read a book that gives the biblical perspective from a "girl chat" point of view. I like being challenged, but I don't like being chided and I think that's what some of those books do, you know what I mean.

And yes, unfortunately I think it's human nature to start to use some of these books as check off lists and then we can feel all good about ourselves and superior. Constant struggle, isn't it?

 

I agree. What I meant to say, not very eloquently, was that I struggled for so many years with pleasing others, that I sometimes take these books and apply them in that way to my life. It's such a struggle for me! I still struggle with that at times. It's so true that it's good to get other opinions on Biblical principles, that's why we do Bible studies written by different authors, or read commentaries when we study the Word.

 

It's interesting to me that when it comes to being a wife, I struggle with other's expectations of me. But, when it comes to being a parent, I love to read books about parenting and I can pick and choose what works for my family. With being an excellent wife, I worry about other's expectations? Why do you think that is?:glare:

[Nestof3]

I actually think this is the best marriage book ever written for a wife. I like that she does NOT use the blanket "submit at all times without saying a word" line.

 

Now, if a woman is opposed to the notion of submission at all, she is not ready for this book, to be sure, eventhough the scripture is clear about it. She should probably spend more time getting to know her Bible better.

 

I really like her book because she fills it with scripture. I despise reading books on this topic which are just full of a person's opinion. This book really pulls all of the pertinent scriptures together into one place.

 

I never detected a tone at all. I detected my flesh awakening a few times, but I am finally seasoned enough in my faith to recognize that it was my sinful flesh and not a disagreement with the author, if you know what I mean. For me, my flesh used to block out a lot of teaching.

[*anj*]

I actually think this is the best marriage book ever written for a wife. I like that she does NOT use the blanket "submit at all times without saying a word" line.

 

Now, if a woman is opposed to the notion of submission at all, she is not ready for this book, to be sure, even though the scripture is clear about it. She should probably spend more time getting to know her Bible better.

 

Aha! I knew that someone had to have a dissenting opinion. Welcome, Dawn! :001_smile:

 

I understand the Biblical teaching on submission. That isn't my beef with TEW. I think that similar things can be said in a different style.

I'm glad that that book worked for you. I know several other women who also found it to be edifying. Isn't it great that there are so many different flavors available?

 

(Kind of like ice cream, though it's way too early in the day to start thinking about that!;))

[OnTheBrink]

 

(Kind of like ice cream, though it's way too early in the day to start thinking about that!;))

 

 

Nuh uh!

 

Someone recently was eating Rocky Road and darned if I didn't go out and get some the next day! (I think it was Janna, but I'm not sure)

 

Ice cream can be discussed any time of day. It's dairy. Milk on cereal is dairy. It works. :lol:

[SnowWhite]

I want to know what "that" book is, too!

 

I liked Love and Respect, as well as The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. I think they both say basically the same thing; L&R is from a Christian POV; TPC&FOH isn't.

 

Me, too... PM please! Does it have gem stones in the title?

[*anj*]

Me, too... PM please! Does it have gem stones in the title?

She PM'd me.

No gemstones in the title, but the author's name is something that looks nice on a strand around your neck. ;)

[Joanne]

I read it years ago, back when I lived in AZ and was working on my (former) marriage.

 

It's not a match for my understanding of the functioning of a marriage, my understanding of doctrine, my preference in author's tone.

 

I find that book, and similar ones, to assign too much blame on the wife's lack of true, heart submission as the core of marital problems. I like "The Power of a Praying Wife" but I did find somewhat of a similar tone - that if you behave right and pray correctly, your DH will change.

 

Ironically, I AM a believer that you can only change yourself.

 

The Van Vonderan books (Families Where Grace Is In Place) speak more to my heart.

[Mrs Mungo]

but, I don't tend to read those kinds of books. Not only does it make me feel guilty about not being the kind of wife the author thinks I should be...

 

I think there are lots of ways to be a good wife. Not all husbands want the same thing and our husbands married *us* not someone else. That's the problem I have with many of those books.

[battlemaiden]

I think there are lots of ways to be a good wife. Not all husbands want the same thing and our husbands married *us* not someone else. That's the problem I have with many of those books.

 

:iagree:

 

It's taken my dh a few too many years to convince me of this. But I can't be who he wants if I'm modeling off of someone else.

 

Jo

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

Thanks, CT, for such positive words about this book. I've been looking forward to reading this for a few months. I've got Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, and enjoyed it immensely, but I wanted something with Christian Worldview. This book is on my list of things to read soon.

[CLHCO]

I have even read and learned from "that" book (that will not be mentioned for fear of this thread going up in flames)

 

I know what "that" book is and I've read it. :svengo: I was very convicted of a few things and then annoyed by other things later. Digesting most of this is a process, I figure.

 

I haven't read Excellent Wife. I've been tempted but now I think I'll skip it. I get annoyed at "tone" too easily anymore. I used to be intimidated by it, then I got feisty and almost liked it, now I find it annoying when authors get that way. Maybe it's an age issue?

 

If I feel the need, and I don't right now, I'll look at the other books recommended.

[*anj*]

I get annoyed at "tone" too easily anymore. I used to be intimidated by it, then I got feisty and almost liked it, now I find it annoying when authors get that way. Maybe it's an age issue?

 

 

I know what you mean. I do think it's an age issue. Which doesn't mean that I'm not teachable, it's just that I want to be spoken to with respect, not like someone's errant daughter. Unless of course the speaker is Elisabeth Eliott. She can say anything she wants to me anyway she wants to say it because I love her and respect her beyond words.

 

But there is another woman who teaches the Bible and life stuff and writes books and she bugs me. When Elisabeth Eliott's radio show was taken off the air she was replaced by this woman and her tone always really bothered me. One of the things that really annoyed me was that she would preach at wives about how we "should" be, yet she was unmarried herself.

 

That's not to say that she couldn't have anything of value to say, it's just that she's not as credible a witness, you know?

There's a line from The Music Man:

"When a woman's got a husband and you've got none,

Why should she take advice from you?..."

 

And there's a bit o' truth to that.

[Trivium Academy]

I won't read it just because of the title. I can just imagine the advice on how to be more self-deprecating, more legalistic and in less communion with God just by the title.

[Nestof3]

Wow -- Jessica. To be able to expect that much from a title. It seems I'm the only person who actually likes this book, but it really is full of scripture and is one of the only books of its kind that I've read (dealing with submission) that "allows" a woman to rebuke her husband.

 

All of the other books I've read (Debi Pearl's included) are far too "submit under any circumstance" and far too "seek to please your husband above all else" than this book.

 

I've seen people criticize the author's tone, but so far no one has been able to argue the biblical truths within it. Tone is not something that ever bothers me -- for I'm sure many people would have had issues with the prophets' tones and even Jesus' tone. Perhaps it's because I'm just somewhat thick-skinned, but I still haven't been able to find a "negative tone" in the book.

 

For what it's worth -- there is one author whose tone makes me ill, and that is Michael Pearl. I can get through most of his child rearing material now that he's calmed down a little (he's a grandpa now), but he's got to be the most arrogant teacher! My husband and I were watching his marriage videos. In the one geared for the women, men were asked what their wives could do to make their marriage better. This portion wnet smoothly. When women were asked what their husbands could do to make their marriage better, one woman said something about fixing the squeaky door (wow -- huge request, right) and other similar things. Michael began railing the women for being manipulative, ungratetul and so on. Those videos went out of the house immediately. It was okay for a man to expect his wife to be sexier, but it wasn't okay for woman to expect her man to actually fix something. ugh

 

I'd love to hear what people consider a great book -- which is full of scripture references and not just stories and psychological opinions. I cannot stand story after story, and I cannot stand just hearing people's opinions. For instance, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus describes a woman that is so vastly different from me that I had to tell my husband when he was reading the book to not take much of it to heart. Gary Smalley is another one of those authors that tells with much authority about what a woman wants, but he pegged me wrong.

 

For instance, no -- when I complain about something, I actually AM asking for a solution. I don't just complain about something because I have a need to get it off my chest or because I have a certain word count I must reach in a day. And, do not say women make choices with their emotions rather than their logic. I am a very logical person, and I have a hard time understanding people who say things that make no logical sense.

 

With any book I read pertaining to marriage, I like to read parts to my husband and discuss it. This way I get a better feel for what he agrees with. Sometimes he will read the book written to the woman, and I will read the book written to the husband, and we'll talk about what we feel in strong agreement with.

 

There is a companion book for The Excellent Wife -- titled The Exemplary Husband. I always say, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." ;)

[angela in ohio]

I won't read it just because of the title. I can just imagine the advice on how to be more self-deprecating, more legalistic and in less communion with God just by the title.

 

I don't like the book myself, but I will say that none of those things are in it in the least.

[Trivium Academy]

I'm glad I'm wrong but still won't read it, I've read plenty that gotten in way of having communion with God or His word and I'm very cautious of Christian how-to books because of it.

[Laura in OH]

...For instance, no -- when I complain about something, I actually AM asking for a solution. I don't just complain about something because I have a need to get it off my chest or because I have a certain word count I must reach in a day. And, do not say women make choices with their emotions rather than their logic. I am a very logical person, and I have a hard time understanding people who say things that make no logical sense.

 

THANK-YOU for saying this. I can SO relate. It did take a few years for my dh to believe me when I say "what do you think?" ... but, then again, I never ask him "do these pants make my b**t look big?" or any other question that I don't want an answer. :)

 

I have learned from the Bible and other godly women how to be submissive to my husband without losing me (after all, God created me!) -- and dh has learned how to "love" me.

[Nestof3]

I have learned from the Bible and other godly women how to be submissive to my husband without losing me (after all, God created me!) -- and dh has learned how to "love" me.

 

That really is the best way, isn't it? Thankfully, men are taught in our church meeting that they are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and men are encouraged to take the full responsibility of it.

[Rose in BC]

Some of these reactions are so volatile I might have to pull it off the shelf and check it out. I'm wondering if I'm going to have the same reactions.

[JESSICAinMD]

I actually think this is the best marriage book ever written for a wife. I like that she does NOT use the blanket "submit at all times without saying a word" line.

 

Now, if a woman is opposed to the notion of submission at all, she is not ready for this book, to be sure, eventhough the scripture is clear about it. She should probably spend more time getting to know her Bible better.

 

I really like her book because she fills it with scripture. I despise reading books on this topic which are just full of a person's opinion. This book really pulls all of the pertinent scriptures together into one place.

 

I never detected a tone at all. I detected my flesh awakening a few times, but I am finally seasoned enough in my faith to recognize that it was my sinful flesh and not a disagreement with the author, if you know what I mean. For me, my flesh used to block out a lot of teaching.

 

:iagree:

I really like her book too. I love that is full of scripture. I never noticed a tone either. I had the book for years before I ever read it. I thought by following the book I would have to turn into a slave in my house. However when I finally read it, I got some really good practical advice out of it. (Like how to Biblical communicate with your husband when you are fighting.)