Healthcare Question

[goldberry]

Ok...please be nice because I really would like to hear opinions on this.

 

If you are against a personal mandate requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, how would you solve the issue of those who are uninsured burdening the system?

 

I am asking because I read an article against the personal mandate, and it said, "surely there are other ways to solve the problem of free-riders who burden the system". But then it didn't offer what those might be.... I'm curious what other ideas are out there.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Ok...please be nice because I really would like to hear opinions on this.

 

If you are against a personal mandate requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, how would you solve the issue of those who are uninsured burdening the system?

 

I am asking because I read an article against the personal mandate, and it said, "surely there are other ways to solve the problem of free-riders who burden the system". But then it didn't offer what those might be.... I'm curious what other ideas are out there.

 

If you believe in personal responsibility then either a mandate or single payer universal healthcare for all would be the way to go:D Personally I favor medicare for all. Then everyone would be paying their share;)

[Lara in Colo]

I would rather see a system that reduces the amount of medical costs through mandated pricing, reducing lawsuit payouts (and lawsuits), and sensible expenditures (of the medical profession)---this should lower the cost of both the medicine and the insurance.

 

I do not, however want to "buy into" a system that is this broken and can only get worse when rewarded by more money.

[goldberry]

I would rather see a system that reduces the amount of medical costs through mandated pricing, reducing lawsuit payouts (and lawsuits), and sensible expenditures (of the medical profession)---this should lower the cost of both the medicine and the insurance.

 

I do not, however want to "buy into" a system that is this broken and can only get worse when rewarded by more money.

 

Ok, good, but how would you address the issue of the intentionally uninsured who burden the system?

[stripe]

If you are against a personal mandate requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, how would you solve the issue of those who are uninsured burdening the system?

 

I am asking because I read an article against the personal mandate, and it said, "surely there are other ways to solve the problem of free-riders who burden the system"..

Your question is loaded.

 

One could just as easily ask - How would you solve the problem of old people burdening the system? How about sickly babies?

 

Why is the current insurance system fair, where everyone pays in, and those who get sick burden the system and mooch off of the healthy? How about employees burdening their employers with having to pay in? How about those who get health care from work getting benefits tax free that the self-employed are burdened with?

 

How do you account for the insured who burden the system?

 

If insurance were affordable, I imagine quite a few more people would like to get health care and get their sore teeth looked at. Most people want to pay, they just can't afford the market price.

[jamijoy]

I haven't given all that much thought to this problem because once you start a welfare program, you pretty much can never go back.

 

However, if it were ever possible, I think that charitable healthcare organizations would work better than any federal government health program ever would. There are many out there that are already helping people who can't afford their own healthcare...Shriner's, American Kidney Fund, American Red Cross, etc. I'm guessing that by now they are probably subsidized by the government though. :glare: But usually smaller organizations have less waste and corruption than government programs.

 

Those who want to would donate to those charities that are set up to help those who want health insurance but can't afford the premiums. There may be many who think that Americans wouldn't step up to help people out, but just look at the big disasters that happen (tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes) where Americans DO send millions of dollars to help.

 

I don't know if that would work. I doubt we'll ever get the chance to see unless our government gets so in debt that everything crashes Atlas Shrugged style. :tongue_smilie:

 

And besides, would it even be a significant tax cut where it would free up more of people's money to be able to give it away anyways? There's so much other stuff that we're paying for with federal taxes.

 

I have no sources, no proof, just a thought in my head that I though I'd share.

Again, I can't really see this happening as people are way too "entitled" to have others pay for their lifestyles for it to actually be a choice people should be able to make, so I guess it wasn't a very realistic suggestion.

 

I'm interested in what others will suggest though.

[goldberry]

Your question is loaded.

 

One could just as easily ask - How would you solve the problem of old people burdening the system? How about sickly babies?

 

Why is the current insurance system fair, where everyone pays in, and those who get sick burden the system and mooch off of the healthy? How about employees burdening their employers with having to pay in? How about those who get health care from work getting benefits tax free that the self-employed are burdened with?

 

How do you account for the insured who burden the system?

 

If insurance were affordable, I imagine quite a few more people would like to get health care and get their sore teeth looked at. Most people want to pay, they just can't afford the market price.

 

I have been in the position of not having money to purchase insurance, so I know that is the case. I'm not sure why the question would be "loaded". Whatever the reason, if you don't have insurance, and you go into the emergency room to have your appendix out, but don't have $40000, someone is going to have to absorb that cost. It is a PART of why the system is broken. No, not the only part, but still a part.

 

Yes, there are many of us who would happily purchase insurance if it was affordable. HOWEVER, I worked for a company that employees had to pay under $10 per week for their share of insurance, and there were SEVERAL of them who elected not to be covered. Apparently to them, "affordable" only meant free.

 

There will always be those who would rather "play the odds", or those for whom any amount is deemed too much to pay. So my question is, how do you address that?

[Whitworth]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

3. That being said, let's use that money in paying the average soldier a livable wage and let's bring all VA hospitals into the 21st century.

I’m all for defending America but I am not interested in an American empire. We have the money; we just choose to spend it on other things.

[Mom0012]

I don't have a problem with requiring people to have health insurance as long as it is affordable. In Virginia, I am required to have auto insurance or I must pay $400 to the state. That is a huge incentive for me to get my own insurance policy and maybe this is something that keeps auto insurance rates reasonable. There doesn't seem to be the same price gouging going on in the auto insurance industry as in health care. My hope is that if everyone paid in and shared the burden, premiums would be more reasonable. I realize that may be a pipe dream.

 

As far as medicare for all? Blech! I can't imagine anything I would like less. My family's healthcare is too important to me to have all control over it given to the government. I already feel as though I have little enough control as it is due to the mentality of many doctors.

 

Lisa

Edited June 10, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[Jennifer3141]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

3. That being said, let's use that money in paying the average soldier a livable wage and let's bring all VA hospitals into the 21st century.

I’m all for defending America but I am not interested in an American empire. We have the money; we just choose to spend it on other things.

 

:iagree:

 

The other thing that makes me laugh is the number of people who cry and whine about having to have insurance who eventually show up in the hospital. Don't expect my DH to treat you for FREE because you're an idiot. We treat enough other people who have real medical cirumstances for free or for greatly reduced rates (Medicaid). I'm not treating you for free too!!

 

I talk to at least 2 people a day who want DH to write off their bills because they don't want to buy insurance but could do so. No. And yes, I send every single one of them to collections.

 

DH sleeps holding a pager with one hand and his other on his ipad many nights. The idea that he should do this for free annoys the crap out of me.

[YLVD]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

3. That being said, let's use that money in paying the average soldier a livable wage and let's bring all VA hospitals into the 21st century.

I’m all for defending America but I am not interested in an American empire. We have the money; we just choose to spend it on other things.

 

:iagree:

[tntgoodwin]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

3. That being said, let's use that money in paying the average soldier a livable wage and let's bring all VA hospitals into the 21st century.

I’m all for defending America but I am not interested in an American empire. We have the money; we just choose to spend it on other things.

 

:iagree: mostly

Edited June 10, 2011 by tntgoodwin

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I don't have a problem with requiring people to have health insurance as long as it is affordable. In Virginia, I am required to have auto insurance or I must pay $400 to the state. That is a huge incentive for me to get my own insurance policy and maybe this is something that keeps auto insurance rates reasonable. There doesn't seem to be the same price gouging going on in the auto insurance industry as in health care. My hope is that if everyone paid in and shared the burden, premiums would be more reasonable. I realize that may be a pipe dream.

 

As far as medicare for all? Blech! I can't imagine anything I would like less. My family's healthcare is too important to me to have all control over it given to the government. I already feel as though I have little enough control as it is due to the mentality of many doctors.

 

Lisa

 

My dear parents lives have been saved by medicare and they were fully in control of their healthcare choices and not the government. My mother who is battling cancer for the second time has more options open to her and less cost with medicare than she did with private insurance the first time around. Honestly, I think most seniors agree with me and would not want to give up their medicare. I know I am certainly not for medicare vouchers at all. I don't want to be at the mercy of private health insurance companies since I have experienced and witnessed their quickness to deny coverage and services all for the bottom line:(.

Edited June 10, 2011 by priscilla

[Anita in NC]

I have a problem with people being forced into paying for insurance through private for-profit insurance companies.

 

I would much rather see universal health care that everyone pays into through taxes so that everyone is covered. Obviously the more you earn the more you would pay into the system.

 

We already pay $700 a month for insurance premiums, which is just our portion. We still have to pay for ALL doctors visits, labs, etc... in full until we meet a 4k deductible and THEN the insurance will kick in.

 

I'd be happier paying that money in extra taxes towards universal health care.

 

For those that say that they think they wouldn't get as good medical care if the government were in charge, I have to tell you that there have been many times our health insurance has denied services, refused to pay, and given us such a hard time about things that they should be covering while charging us for the privilege.

[Catherine]

Whether it's loaded or not, I think you ask an important question. The costs of caring for the uninsured are staggering. Our hospital has a regional burn unit. I'm an internist. Many, many burn victims are uninsured-frequently, they are young adults who have taken risks, are under the influence, don't have insurance. Their care, often including months-long stays in intensive care units, multiple surgeries, long rehab stays, is incredibly expensive. Yet, how could a hospital ethically refuse to care for a 20 yo who was perfectly healthy before their burn? Will charities actually pay the literally millions that one burn patient's care might cost?

 

The lack of answers to this thread is telling. There is no easy answer.

[tntgoodwin]

Ok...please be nice because I really would like to hear opinions on this.

 

If you are against a personal mandate requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, how would you solve the issue of those who are uninsured burdening the system?

 

I am asking because I read an article against the personal mandate, and it said, "surely there are other ways to solve the problem of free-riders who burden the system". But then it didn't offer what those might be.... I'm curious what other ideas are out there.

 

Okay. My answer, and it probably won't be well liked.

 

The whole system is broken. Medical care is too expensive. This is due to a variety of factors, but I have some suggestions. One, we need sound money. Inflation caused by the Federal Reserve causes prices to go up. Two, malpractice insurance is too expensive. Three, drugs are too expensive due to over-regulation.

As far as health insurance being so expensive, people are using health insurance to pay for every little thing. It would be like auto insurance that pays for oil changes and adding gas to the tank. Catastrophic insurance (for, say, you get in an accident, or discover you have cancer, or some other chronic illness etc) with a high deductible should be the way to go. You should be able to buy it across state lines. It can be reasonably priced. For your routine care, pay cash.

 

Those who can not afford this basic level of care should get help from churches, charities, and their local community.

 

I should not be required to provide money to pay for other people's healthcare.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I have a problem with people being forced into paying for insurance through private for-profit insurance companies.

 

I would much rather see universal health care that everyone pays into through taxes so that everyone is covered. Obviously the more you earn the more you would pay into the system.

 

We already pay $700 a month for insurance premiums, which is just our portion. We still have to pay for ALL doctors visits, labs, etc... in full until we meet a 4k deductible and THEN the insurance will kick in.

 

I'd be happier paying that money in extra taxes towards universal health care.

 

For those that say that they think they wouldn't get as good medical care if the government were in charge, I have to tell you that there have been many times our health insurance has denied services, refused to pay, and given us such a hard time about things that they should be covering while charging us for the privilege.

:iagree::iagree: Healthcare should not be about extreme profit where top executives get millions and millions of dollars:( Sadly, even so-called non-profit health insurance companies also seem to have a lot of fat at the top with excessive salaries IMHO.

 

Of course, I think people should be paid well but I don't believe for a second that CEO's are worth 400 to 700 times the average employees' pay at all. In the 1960's CEO and top execs made about 42 times average pay from what I recall and they did quite well. I know since my grandfather had his own business in the 1950s and 1960s and he did quite well to say the least yet he did not make 400 to 700 times the average employee.

[Parrothead]

I have a problem with people being forced into paying for insurance through private for-profit insurance companies.

 

I would much rather see universal health care that everyone pays into through taxes so that everyone is covered. Obviously the more you earn the more you would pay into the system.

 

We already pay $700 a month for insurance premiums, which is just our portion. We still have to pay for ALL doctors visits, labs, etc... in full until we meet a 4k deductible and THEN the insurance will kick in.

 

I'd be happier paying that money in extra taxes towards universal health care.

 

For those that say that they think they wouldn't get as good medical care if the government were in charge, I have to tell you that there have been many times our health insurance has denied services, refused to pay, and given us such a hard time about things that they should be covering while charging us for the privilege.

I'd be willing to go to a universal system also. The only problem I see is that, well, let's face it head on, our officials are mostly corrupt. If I thought for a moment the money allocated to health care could not be skimmed (as they do social security) or plundered I'd be happy with something like what Canada has.

[Ellie]

Universal health care is not what it's cracked up to be. Just ask the Canadians who come to the States to be treated.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I know I don't want the government deciding whether I can live when I'm elderly.

 

I'm thinking that part of the high cost of health care is burdensome government rules.

 

An elderly friend lives part-time in Texas and part-time in California. She has an HMO in California which she's had for years, and when she qualified for Medicare--which you cannot decline, BTW...that's just not right--she had her benefits signed over to this HMO. When she comes to Texas, she can only be treated on an emergency basis, which means no follow-up visits, not even if she pays for them out of pocket--something to do with Medicare. Sometried to explain this to me and it made no sense whatsoever. :001_huh: At any rate, what kind of sense does that make?? If she wants to see a doctor for a non-emergency issue, and she can afford to pay out of pocket, why shouldn't she be allowed to do that, FCOL??

 

Health insurance should be like car insurance--you choose what you want and you pay for it.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Universal health care is not what it's cracked up to be. Just ask the Canadians who come to the States to be treated.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I know I don't want the government deciding whether I can live when I'm elderly.

 

I'm thinking that part of the high cost of health care is burdensome government rules.

 

An elderly friend lives part-time in Texas and part-time in California. She has an HMO in California which she's had for years, and when she qualified for Medicare--which you cannot decline, BTW...that's just not right--she had her benefits signed over to this HMO. When she comes to Texas, she can only be treated on an emergency basis, which means no follow-up visits, not even if she pays for them out of pocket--something to do with Medicare. Sometried to explain this to me and it made no sense whatsoever. :001_huh: At any rate, what kind of sense does that make?? If she wants to see a doctor for a non-emergency issue, and she can afford to pay out of pocket, why shouldn't she be allowed to do that, FCOL??

 

Health insurance should be like car insurance--you choose what you want and you pay for it.

If I am not mistaken most of our Canadian posters are happy with their healthcare.

 

Also, if it were up to private health insurance companies, I suspect my parents would be dead:(.

[Mrs Mungo]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

I don't disagree with this. Reducing pork barrel projects would be an extremely good place to start.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

 

Are you assuming all current wars are driven by corporate greed or is that a qualifier?

 

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

 

Our foreign military bases are not primarily intended to be used to defend those nations. They are used for several purposes: pre-positioning our forces, as staging areas, the hospitals serve soldiers wounded overseas in combat, to build partnerships with our allies, to train and educate our forces overseas, to easily deploy teams for humanitarian missions, to provide rest and recreation to soldiers overseas.

 

Overseas bases house around 10% of our military. That is infrastructure that already exists. How much would it cost to recreate all of those bases in the US?

 

This isn't a logistically feasible or money-saving proposition, imo.

[Twilight Woods]

everyone needs healthcare. Since everyone needs healthcare I think everyone should have health insurance. Either paying for it on your own through a private insurance or through a mandate. Not Medicaid.

[Ellie]

everyone needs healthcare. Since everyone needs healthcare I think everyone should have health insurance. Either paying for it on your own through a private insurance or through a mandate. Not Medicaid.

I don't believe the federal government should be involved in this. At all.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I think there should be a single payer system, we don't purchase it, we pay taxes and the gov't provides it. Forcing people to buy insurance from the companies that exist is criminal. And it should be unconstitutional to force people to purchase anything.

[regentrude]

I should not be required to provide money to pay for other people's healthcare.

 

Wow. Just speechless.

 

Aside from a few millionaires, almost nobody is able to pay for severe medical issues. The average person simply will not earn enough money to cover cancer treatments, or the care for a premature baby etc.

 

So, either everybody pays into an insurance pool which then covers the ones who need it - or we decide that it's OK to let a sick person die because she can't pay for herself. It is one of those two.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Wow. Just speechless.

 

Aside from a few millionaires, almost nobody is able to pay for severe medical issues. The average person simply will not earn enough money to cover cancer treatments, or the care for a premature baby etc.

 

So, either everybody pays into an insurance pool which then covers the ones who need it - or we decide that it's OK to let a sick person die because she can't pay for herself. It is one of those two.

 

:iagree:IMHO the civilized and most efficient and most cost effective answer is to pool our resources as a country for healthcare:001_smile:

[Mama Geek]

:iagree:IMHO the civilized and most efficient and most cost effective answer is to pool our resources as a country for healthcare:001_smile:

 

Since food and shelter are also necessary lets pool our resources as a country for those as well. They can dictate what we eat, what house or apartment we have and what food we can get. If the government is so efficient and civilized this should work great, right?

 

By the way my uncle had to wait months for the VA to put a new pacemaker in when a private doctor could have done it within a few days.

[regentrude]

By the way my uncle had to wait months for the VA to put a new pacemaker in when a private doctor could have done it within a few days.

 

Would he have been able to pay for it?

[Mrs Mungo]

By the way my uncle had to wait months for the VA to put a new pacemaker in when a private doctor could have done it within a few days.

 

Then, why didn't have a private doctor do it?

[EKS]

I should not be required to provide money to pay for other people's healthcare.

 

If you have health insurance you *are* paying for other people's healthcare.

[Anita in NC]

Let's be clear here private health insurance companies DO NOT have your best interests at heart. They are in business to make a profit, to make money for their share holders, and to reduce the bottom line as much as they can.

 

They deny benefits, refuse to pay for services, and will not insure adults with pre-existing conditions.

 

Health care costs are out of control. Millions of Americans have no insurance. People that fall below the poverty line already receive medicaid or some kind of state run health insurance. Meanwhile the working and middle class don't qualify for help with medical insurance costs and many can't afford to purchase it for themselves.

 

As a society we should be looking out for everyone. We should pool our resources and provide health care for all the citizens.

[Mama Geek]

He is retired military and was not high ranking. The military is the one area that I believe taxpayers should be paying for benefits. They are serving our country.

 

He didn't have money to pay for it and he wouldn't accept help.

[ColoNative]

This problem is way bigger than whether we can all get affordable health insurance. If everyone were accountable for their own health, perhaps the whole system would change. I've got relatives who will go to the doctor for a minor cough, get antibiotics and have several follow-up visits for a cough that would go away on it's own, that was a virus, and didn't need the $$$ spent for a doctor. Health care is way too expensive - drugs are even more outrageous. But, if you cut all the wages of doctors who spent a long time in school and a lot of money getting there, what kind of healthcare do you think we'll end up with?

 

I personally believe we need to transform the nutrition of this country and see what happens to the healthcare industry. If you look at the SAD (standard american diet), it's sad to see the loss of nutrients and garbage people are putting into their bodies. People are sick because they eat junk. No amount of health insurance is going to change that. Corn is one of the most government subsidized crops in America - its' cheap and you can make cheap food. That's one reason junk food is so much cheaper than healthy, fresh food. (A good video to watch is King Corn!)

 

We pay for our own insurance - my husband is self-employed. We go to the doctor maybe once a year for being sick - we are hardly ever sick. However, our insurance premiums keep going up because we're paying for someone else who doesn't care about how they eat and goes to the doctor way more than we do. I don't agree that we should be paying for someone else to go to the doctor. I do agree we all need to make the hard choices and eat better and live healthier life styles.

 

Happy, healthy eating!

Melody

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This problem is way bigger than whether we can all get affordable health insurance. If everyone were accountable for their own health, perhaps the whole system would change. I've got relatives who will go to the doctor for a minor cough, get antibiotics and have several follow-up visits for a cough that would go away on it's own, that was a virus, and didn't need the $$$ spent for a doctor. Health care is way too expensive - drugs are even more outrageous. But, if you cut all the wages of doctors who spent a long time in school and a lot of money getting there, what kind of healthcare do you think we'll end up with?

 

I personally believe we need to transform the nutrition of this country and see what happens to the healthcare industry. If you look at the SAD (standard american diet), it's sad to see the loss of nutrients and garbage people are putting into their bodies. People are sick because they eat junk. No amount of health insurance is going to change that. Corn is one of the most government subsidized crops in America - its' cheap and you can make cheap food. That's one reason junk food is so much cheaper than healthy, fresh food. (A good video to watch is King Corn!)

 

We pay for our own insurance - my husband is self-employed. We go to the doctor maybe once a year for being sick - we are hardly ever sick. However, our insurance premiums keep going up because we're paying for someone else who doesn't care about how they eat and goes to the doctor way more than we do. I don't agree that we should be paying for someone else to go to the doctor. I do agree we all need to make the hard choices and eat better and live healthier life styles.

 

Happy, healthy eating!

Melody

 

I took care of hundreds and hundreds of previously healthy people who ended up with catastrophic illnesses and accidents:( Then, there are the millions of people who have congenital and genetic diseases. So it is not all about lifestyle. Then, in terms of lifestyle, many people end up in vicious cycles with obesity and/or addiction and it is more a physical problem (disease) for them which is very difficult to escape:(.

 

As for doctors, I think we should subsidize medical education. IMHO I think it is unsustainable for every doctor to be a multi-millionaire as well ( I am not saying that they all are either for the record). I think they should be paid well though.

[Mrs Mungo]

He is retired military and was not high ranking. The military is the one area that I believe taxpayers should be paying for benefits. They are serving our country.

 

Okay. This is a very complex issue, and I'm in the middle of making dinner. I'm going to have to come back to this.

 

In the meantime, here are some articles that might help flesh out understanding of the current system:

About Tricare for Life

 

Tricare for Life

 

DoD facing budget strains over health care

Generally speaking, retirees are seen at military facilities on a space available basis.

 

VA hospitals are something different, I'm not fully versed on how they work for those veterans who are using them due to something other than a service-related disability (those people have priority). I'd have to look into it.

 

He didn't have money to pay for it and he wouldn't accept help.

 

Except, he did. Just random taxpayers instead of his family. I'm not against that, understand, I am in favor of veterans benefits, subsidized health care, regulations making it so that my son can get insurance when he's an adult, etc. I am just trying to figure out how it fits into the discussion.

[Catherine]

This is a statement that I see over and over again in these threads. But what is your proposal, as the OP asked, for how you'd cover those who have no coverage and get sick? It's an honest and ethical question. What's your proposal, Ellie?

[Ellie]

Less federal government involvement. Health share (as in Samaritan Ministries, of which I am a member) programs. Free-market health-care system.

[justamouse]

Ok...please be nice because I really would like to hear opinions on this.

 

If you are against a personal mandate requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, how would you solve the issue of those who are uninsured burdening the system?

 

I am asking because I read an article against the personal mandate, and it said, "surely there are other ways to solve the problem of free-riders who burden the system". But then it didn't offer what those might be.... I'm curious what other ideas are out there.

 

Because businesses would shoulder the burden and insurance companies could continue unchecked.

 

The cost of healthcare is crippling small businesses. You're going to see businesses go out left and right, which will burden the system even more.

[Parrothead]

Let's be clear here private health insurance companies DO NOT have your best interests at heart. They are in business to make a profit, to make money for their share holders, and to reduce the bottom line as much as they can.

 

They deny benefits, refuse to pay for services, and will not insure adults with pre-existing conditions.

 

Health care costs are out of control. Millions of Americans have no insurance. People that fall below the poverty line already receive medicaid or some kind of state run health insurance. Meanwhile the working and middle class don't qualify for help with medical insurance costs and many can't afford to purchase it for themselves.

 

As a society we should be looking out for everyone. We should pool our resources and provide health care for all the citizens.

It isn't even only care costs. Prescriptions in this country are outrageous. Many times the cost of the exact same medication in Canada (or Mexico) is pennies on the dollar.

 

Unfortunately the entire system is broken with those heading the system making millions on the suffering of others. That is just not right.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Less federal government involvement. Health share (as in Samaritan Ministries, of which I am a member) programs. Free-market health-care system.

 

Samaritan Ministries is not health insurance and there is no guarantee of coverage per their own web site last time I checked. Universal healthcare would be a "health share" and would not discriminate against non-Christians as Good Samaritan does if I am not mistaken.

[justamouse]

It isn't even only care costs. Prescriptions in this country are outrageous. Many times the cost of the exact same medication in Canada (or Mexico) is pennies on the dollar.

 

Unfortunately the entire system is broken with those heading the system making millions on the suffering of others. That is just not right.

 

:iagree:

That's because under the word 'incest' in the dictionary is the FDA. They don't ever bring in outsiders-they just swap out Big Pharma CEOs.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It isn't even only care costs. Prescriptions in this country are outrageous. Many times the cost of the exact same medication in Canada (or Mexico) is pennies on the dollar.

 

Unfortunately the entire system is broken with those heading the system making millions on the suffering of others. That is just not right.

 

Again, IMHO I think there is an extreme profit factor when it comes to big PHarma. Then there is the way the pharmacy companies spend tons of money trying to influence doctors and patients to use their drugs. Drug reps routinely wine and dine doctors last time I checked. I am not sure if this has changed yet. Now, of cpurse, there are doctors that will not give drug reps the time of day as well.

[WishboneDawn]

It isn't even only care costs. Prescriptions in this country are outrageous. Many times the cost of the exact same medication in Canada (or Mexico) is pennies on the dollar.

 

Unfortunately the entire system is broken with those heading the system making millions on the suffering of others. That is just not right.

 

It's sort of a no-brainer why. When you're buying the meds through your gov't rather then as individuals you get a LOT more negotiating power and can buy in bulk for much less.

 

When you've got a system that makes the individual shoulder the costs then you can charge what you like and keep the individual powerless.

[goldberry]

Ok....there is alot of good debate here, but I wasn't trying to start a debate about the entire healthcare system. Yes, it's broken.

 

Most of the uproar lately and lawsuits regarding the healthcare act have to do with the individual mandate. So that was why I was wondering, if you are opposed to the individual mandate, how do you address the issue of the uninsured still needing treatment?

 

The only real answer that seems to me to have addressed that specifically is that charities, churches, etc should pick up the tab. I'm not sure how that would work? An uninsured person is in a car crash. They go to the hospital. The hospital treats them because they cannot legally or morally turn them away. So how do charities or churches address that?

 

The other point that I thought was well made is that people are afraid of being forced to pay into private for-profit greedy insurance companies. However, it seems that most people that are against the individual mandate are also against a single-payer system. I would like to hear from them about this particular issue.

[Catherine]

Capitalism can thrive, and costs of health care can be contained, by what are known as "market mechanisms." Simply put, this means allowing individual users to choose the degree of coverage that suits them. Without that you face a terrible moral quandary: either the employer or the government ends up dictating the level of coverage people get, and how it's paid for.

 

This is a quote from the article you linked, Ellie. This describes the system we have now. People DO choose the degree of coverage that suits them. It's one aspect of the current system that drives up costs. Because many, many people choose not to carry any coverage, when some of them get very expensive illnesses, we all pay for it with our tax dollars.

 

I define a moral quandary as something more than how dollars are spent. Moral to me implies something of more import than dollars.

 

The real moral quandary is how we provide care for people who've not paid ahead for it, and then are sick or injured. One subtext of the argument for "market forces" is seems to be that those people somehow cost nothing?? Do you take the extreme libertarian position that hospitals and doctors should refuse care for people who have no coverage or cash? How would market forces handle that situation? Is that moral?

[Mom0012]

I think auto insurance is a good idea because I could not absorb the cost of an accident that I caused, BUT $400 to the state wouldn't be much of an incentive to me.

 

Well, the $400 isn't much of an incentive to me now, but it sure was when I was in my 20s, when I was living on an extremely limited income and didn't believe anything bad could happen to me. I guess I'm assuming most people that don't buy insurance either think they won't need it or don't think they can afford it.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

My dear parents lives have been saved by medicare and they were fully in control of their healthcare choices and not the government. My mother who is battling cancer for the second time has more options open to her and less cost with medicare than she did with private insurance the first time around. Honestly, I think most seniors agree with me and would not want to give up their medicare. I know I am certainly not for medicare vouchers at all. I don't want to be at the mercy of private health insurance companies since I have experienced and witnessed their quickness to deny coverage and services all for the bottom line:(.

 

Well, my mother's life was saved by her private health insurance. First, breast cancer and then open heart surgery. And she had a lot of choices among top rate doctors and received excellent care.

 

Lisa

[Ellie]

Samaritan Ministries is not health insurance and there is no guarantee of coverage per their own web site last time I checked. Universal healthcare would be a "health share" and would not discriminate against non-Christians as Good Samaritan does if I am not mistaken.

I know that Samaritan Ministries is not health insurance. I know that it doesn't cover everything.

 

There's no reason that other health share organizations could start up without the government mandating it.

[TechWife]

I would much rather see universal health care that everyone pays into through taxes so that everyone is covered. Obviously the more you earn the more you would pay into the system.

 

Sorry, this is not at all obvious to me. If people who make more money have to pay more into the system for the same amount of coverage that those who make less money get, what makes it different than the way things work today? Now people who pay for insurance pay high rates because costs are high to cover those who don't pay their bills. Why can't someone who earns money keep it?

[Mrs Mungo]

I know that Samaritan Ministries is not health insurance. I know that it doesn't cover everything.

 

There's no reason that other health share organizations could start up without the government mandating it.

 

:confused: If it was going to happen, why hasn't it happened?