Catholics, how would you answer this objection?

[HollyBee]

I was mentioning to my dear, best friend (she's independent Southern Baptist) that I am attending Mass and am seriously considering returning to the Catholic faith. She was very encouraging, but she said something that I wasn't sure how to answer.

 

"The only problem I have with Catholics is that they think they have to go through a priest to talk to God."

 

I wasn't sure exactly how to answer that. I mean, I know that's not right, but I wasn't sure how to go about explaining WHY it's not right, kwim? I think she might be referring to confession? We weren't able to discuss it more at that moment, and I haven't had a chance to talk to her in person since then.

 

Thoughts? Where did she get this idea? And any suggestions as to how to answer this misconception?

[Mrs Twain]

Most of my relatives are Catholic, so I will share a little about where I think that statement from your friend comes from.

 

Most of the Catholics that I know are taught that they have to do the sacraments in the Catholic Church in order to go to heaven. They also think that if they do these rituals, that is all they need to do so that they are "in" with God. Sort of like they have their ticket to heaven or maybe their "Get out of jail free" card.

 

This contrasts with what the Bible says. The Bible says in Ephesians chapter 2:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

Also, in Romans chapter 10, it says this:

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. "

 

I think your friend was reacting to the common practice and belief that a lot of Catholics hold (or at least the people I know) that they have to do certain works (such as the former requirement of confession) in order to be saved. The Bible says that you can't get to heaven by doing good works. The Bible says that Jesus took away our sins by dying for them on the cross, and that we are saved if we declare our faith in Him and accept Him as our Savior and Lord.

[Liz CA]

Holly, I grew up in a Catholic church in a Western European country and we were (oddly enough) never encouraged to read the Bible ourselves. The priest was preaching on Sundays and we knelt and said "Amen". Perhaps she got the same impression about praying - that you don't pray yourself which is not true, at least not where I grew up. However, many of the prayers were "prescribed" and learned by rote.

 

Had it not been for my girlfriend's Lutheran youth group, I would not have heard anything about reading the Bible and speaking to God without a script. Today's Catholic churches have supposedly changed (I am not snarky but say supposedly because I have not been in one for twenty years) and this should over time change a non-Catholic's perception as well.

[Ellie]

You would just laugh kindly and say that no, you don't have to go through a priest to pray to God. There may or may not be a point in having a longer discussion with her, though.

[Shelly in IL]

We go to the priest privately and he hears our confessions.

 

Mrs. Twain, I won't judge your post, if you won't judge our faith! :)

[Hannah C.]

That's a misconception I've seen a lot. I think it comes from the sacraments, especially Confession. I also know it's not true. :)

 

Honestly, I don't have a good idea about how to answer it. I think in order to truly answer it you would have to explain the entire idea of the priesthood..and that would take a while, since the Catholic and Baptist views are *SO* different on this.

[Ellie]

Most of my relatives are Catholic, so I will share a little about where I think that statement from your friend comes from.

 

Most of the Catholics that I know are taught that they have to do the sacraments in the Catholic Church in order to go to heaven. They also think that if they do these rituals, that is all they need to do so that they are "in" with God. Sort of like they have their ticket to heaven or maybe their "Get out of jail free" card.

 

This contrasts with what the Bible says. The Bible says in Ephesians chapter 2:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

Also, in Romans chapter 10, it says this:

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. "

 

I think your friend was reacting to the common practice and belief that a lot of Catholics hold (or at least the people I know) that they have to do certain works (such as the former requirement of confession) in order to be saved. The Bible says that you can't get to heaven by doing good works. The Bible says that Jesus took away our sins by dying for them on the cross, and that we are saved if we declare our faith in Him and accept Him as our Savior and Lord.

See, you have the same misunderstandings about the Sacraments that most non-Catholics have. :-) One of those Sacraments, for example, is Holy Orders, which is when a man becomes ordained as a priest. Women, of course, wouldn't be obligated to do that. Matrimony is a Sacrament; surely you don't think that your Catholic friends think they must be married to be saved.

 

Catholics also believe in being saved by grace. :-) (BTW, there is no specific Scripture that says "accept Him as Lord and Savior. Just sayin'...)

 

You might do a word search some time on "traditions." Also on "baptism." What you'll find will be interesting.

 

The book of James talks about works.

[LauraGB]

I would ask her what she means. I'm betting it's the sacraments (most likely confession), and if so, explain the significance of them for Catholics. In which case you should just smile and tell her you get to talk to The Big Guy just as easily as she does :), and that that is not your *only* mode of communication.

[LG Gone Wild]

See, you have the same misunderstandings about the Sacraments that most non-Catholics have. :-) One of those Sacraments, for example, is Holy Orders, which is when a man becomes ordained as a priest. Women, of course, wouldn't be obligated to do that. Matrimony is a Sacrament; surely you don't think that your Catholic friends think they must be married to be saved.

 

Catholics also believe in being saved by grace. :-) (BTW, there is no specific Scripture that says "accept Him as Lord and Savior. Just sayin'...)

 

You might do a word search some time on "traditions." Also on "baptism." What you'll find will be interesting.

 

The book of James talks about works.

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot. :bigear:

[Mrs Twain]

I am not judging anyone or judging anyone's church.

I am only stating what my friends and relatives believe, and what the Bible says.

[OrganicAnn]

I wonder what she meant by "talk to God"? Did she mean prayer or something else. Catholics used to/traditionally pray a lot. At noon and six (Angelus Bell), before meals, before bed, for special intentions, etc. The rosary is a series of prayers, the novenas are prayers, and the stations of the cross again prayer. Priests are usually only involved in the prayer during mass or in some other interaction. Traditionally the prayers was in specific forms - Hail Mary, Our Father etc. Nowadays, it could be either free form or traditional

[Avila]

I am disappointed that this thread took one whole post before someone told us what Catholics really believe and pointed out our errors with scripture to back it up. Maybe she didn't read the persecution thread ... :tongue_smilie:

 

Catholics can pray directly to God any time they choose to. We also worship and pray together at Mass and use intercessory prayer through the priest and our Christian brother and sisters. The priest is called to serve God and the people in a special way through his vocation. But we also have a vocation (generally marriage) that we are also called to and through which we are to serve God, the church and each other.

 

We believe God gave us the sacraments as a gift to give us grace and bring us closer to Him. The sacraments, confession included, are His means to draw us to Him, make us more like Him and make us accountable to Him. He wants us to not just believe but act -- to become like Jesus. His grace gives us the means to not just believe but to follow. Faith without works is dead, but Jesus calls us to a living faith. A dead faith won't save us. Unless we act on our faith, it isn't real. We must take up the cross and follow Him. The sacraments help us to do that.

[Greta]

And any suggestions as to how to answer this misconception?

 

Well, here is a thought. And it's just a thought. Take it for what it's worth. :) Oh, and I should probably explain that I am Orthodox, not Catholic, but I imagine that many would have the same misconception about us, so it has occurred to me to be prepared to talk about this. (ETA: though I'm still uncertain of the best way to do that!)

 

I think your friend was talking about Confession. And the story of the prodigal son is the Biblical illustration of Confession. He came to his senses, and he he returned to the house of his father. That first step, repentance, coming to his senses, was something he had to do on his own. No one could do that for him. He had to realize what a terrible mistake he had made by paying for it. Likewise with us, when we sin, we first come to our senses, realize what we did was wrong, and seek the house of our Father. The priest's role is to help us get there. I've pictured how nice it would have been for the prodigal son if he'd had someone to help him up out of the mire, get him cleaned up, walk with him on his journey back to his father's house. That's what my priest does for me. Repeatedly. :) I stumble and fall flat on my face. Once I realize that I'm lying flat on my face, I desire to pick myself up and try again. I do that through personal prayer. And then through Confession, Father takes my arm and helps me make those first tentative steps. Do I NEED my priest in order to find my way back to my Father? Well, maybe not. But I sure am very, very glad to have his help!

Edited May 25, 2011 by GretaLynne

[ChrisB]

"The only problem I have with Catholics is that they think they have to go through a priest to talk to God."

 

I wasn't sure exactly how to answer that. I mean, I know that's not right, but I wasn't sure how to go about explaining WHY it's not right, kwim? I think she might be referring to confession? We weren't able to discuss it more at that moment, and I haven't had a chance to talk to her in person since then.

 

Thoughts? Where did she get this idea? And any suggestions as to how to answer this misconception?

 

I think you're right about this, i.e. that she's thinking about confession. Catholics are certainly encouraged to pray daily, i.e. converse with God "directly". The entire fourth part (pillar) of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is devoted to prayer, almost all of it in the personal context.

 

Regarding confession, you might note a couple of things. First, Jesus specifically gave the Apostles -- and not the entire body of disciples -- his authority to forgive sins (John 21); and in the early history of the Church we see people confessing their sins to bishops and/or priests.

 

Second, the fact that we are sometimes dependent upon others for aspects of our Christian life is completely biblical... after all, we all hear the Gospel from someone else; the fact that forgiveness for serious sins is mediated by another human being is little different.

 

Just a couple initial thoughts... I hope they're helpful.

[Teachin'Mine]

HollyBee Catholics do not have to go through a priest to talk to God. We talk with Him the same as others - through prayer. However we do go to a priest for Confession in order to receive absolution. As Jesus said ... "When you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound" So we do believe that we are talking with Jesus, and receiving His forgiveness, through the priest. Does that make sense?

 

MrsTwain Eliie already gave you good info. :) Sacraments have nothing to do with "good works". What you are referring to is that Catholics believe that how you live your life does matter when it comes to going to Heaven. Jesus died for all of us, but it is how we respond to this gift that matters. Wouldn't make sense for someone to say that they are saved and going to heaven so they continue to murder. When someone accepts Jesus, it makes sense that they need to follow his ways. Being human, we fail. That's what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is for. :)

 

Liz we are encouraged to read the Bible. Reading Scriptures is very important. Many Catholic churches have Bible study available as well. A lot has changed in the past 20 years, and a lot has stayed the same. :)

[spaceman]

I grew up Southern Baptist and am now Catholic.

 

That was a common statement I heard growing up and one I dealt with while I was going through the process of becoming Catholic through RCIA. ...that and "Catholics don't think".

 

It's just untrue. I never felt the need to say more than "that's a misconception, I can talk to God whenever I want". (and think, too ;))

[Ellie]

I am not judging anyone or judging anyone's church.

I didn't say you were judging anyone.

I am only stating what my friends and relatives believe, and what the Bible says.

I'm pointing out that you are misunderstanding what your Catholic friends and relatives believe, especially about what the Sacraments are. This is what the Church teaches about salvation, grace, and the Sacraments. I have no doubt that your relatives and friends believe this.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm not Catholic, so I won't try to clarify that church doctrine. But I would mention that I've been very impressed with the blog Conversion Diary, which is written by a convert to Catholicism. While this isn't exactly your situation, she spends a lot of time talking about what she found attractive, what she didn't always understand, how she moved to embrace the church and how she explained things to her friends. There might be good depths for you to mine there. (If nothing else you should read her posts about scorpions.)

Edited May 25, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)

[aggieamy]

I was all ready to jump in this thread but I see that all the knowledgable ladies have said what I would have already but better than I could have.

 

*sigh* I get really frustrated with non-Catholics trying to explaining the Catholic faith. There's so much to it that most non-Catholics don't understand it.

[HollyBee]

I really appreciate all the responses! It's good to hear how more "experienced" Catholics would handle that.

 

I guess I was taken aback because I had never heard that before. My dh is vehemently opposed to Catholicism, but in all his objections, he's never mentioned this one, so I was a bit stymied as to how to answer it.

[Sugarfoot]

The sacrament of reconciliation is founded on the verses of John 20:21-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:11-21. The priest bestows the sacrament, God bestows the forgiveness.;)

[Aquinas Academy]

I was all ready to jump in this thread but I see that all the knowledgable ladies have said what I would have already but better than I could have.

 

*sigh* I get really frustrated with non-Catholics trying to explaining the Catholic faith. There's so much to it that most non-Catholics don't understand it.

:iagree:with everything you said.

[WIS0320]

Catholic Answers is always my "Go To" source. The Apologists section of the forums is a gold mine of good information.

 

Here are two good links about Confession:

 

http://www.catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp

 

http://www.catholic.com/library/Confession.asp

 

A lot of well meaning people who are not terribly knowledge about the history of Christianity and the Church have all kinds of wild ideas about our theology. Confession was practiced in the earliest days of Christianity - long before the Bible was compiled into one book and clearly before most people could read and have regular access to a Bible.

 

If it helps, I pray all the time and do not need a priest to do so. :) That is a complete misconception! Confession (or any other Sacrament) is not "works", they are voluntary acts of commitment on my part to bind me to the Body of Christ.

[HeidiKC]

 

Mrs. Twain, I won't judge your post, if you won't judge our faith! :)

 

:iagree: Dang.

[Aubrey]

Thank you, Catholic ladies, for answering this. I know...these questions aren't always...friendly threads, but I wanted you guys to know some of us read them (almost) silently & appreciate your thoughtful & heartfelt explanations. :001_smile:

[cathmom]

So she never goes to a pastor for advice, prayer, or clarification? Why doesn't she just go directly to God? *rolling eyes*

 

I am disappointed that this thread took one whole post before someone told us what Catholics really believe and pointed out our errors with scripture to back it up. Maybe she didn't read the persecution thread ... :tongue_smilie:

 

Catholics can pray directly to God any time they choose to. We also worship and pray together at Mass and use intercessory prayer through the priest and our Christian brother and sisters. The priest is called to serve God and the people in a special way through his vocation. But we also have a vocation (generally marriage) that we are also called to and through which we are to serve God, the church and each other.

 

We believe God gave us the sacraments as a gift to give us grace and bring us closer to Him. The sacraments, confession included, are His means to draw us to Him, make us more like Him and make us accountable to Him. He wants us to not just believe but act -- to become like Jesus. His grace gives us the means to not just believe but to follow. Faith without works is dead, but Jesus calls us to a living faith. A dead faith won't save us. Unless we act on our faith, it isn't real. We must take up the cross and follow Him. The sacraments help us to do that.

 

 

Love your entire post! :)

[justamouse]

Catholic Answers is always my "Go To" source. The Apologists section of the forums is a gold mine of good information.

 

Here are two good links about Confession:

 

http://www.catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp

 

http://www.catholic.com/library/Confession.asp

 

A lot of well meaning people who are not terribly knowledge about the history of Christianity and the Church have all kinds of wild ideas about our theology. Confession was practiced in the earliest days of Christianity - long before the Bible was compiled into one book and clearly before most people could read and have regular access to a Bible.

 

If it helps, I pray all the time and do not need a priest to do so. :) That is a complete misconception! Confession (or any other Sacrament) is not "works", they are voluntary acts of commitment on my part to bind me to the Body of Christ.

 

:iagree:

Having just come from believing that misconception myself, I understand why she said that. But it is a misconception. There were a few hurdles to my reversion, confession being one of them. What I had been previously taught was so deep within me that I had a hard time seeing it any other way and it was something that I had to read a lot about and ask my priest a lot about. But when I read about how it was practiced in the early church, and why, it helped me understand much more.

 

When I finally understood I actually ran to my first confession. I was going to be late and nothing was going to keep me from the Eucharist again.

Edited May 25, 2011 by justamouse

[HeidiKC]

I am not judging anyone or judging anyone's church.

I am only stating what my friends and relatives believe, and what the Bible says.

 

I'd be very surprised if you asked your Catholic friends and relatives if they thought "all they needed to do to get to Heaven" was to participate in the sacraments and if they regarded it sort of like a "FREE get out of Jail card"... and they said, "yes, that's right". As in, let's ignore God all week long, sin left and right without a care...but then we'll hit the church on Sundays and Holy Days and all is good. Oh, and throw in a confession here and there. I don't think your friends would REALLY say that, would they?! If so, I sure am sorry to hear it.

 

It is very interesting how so many people have an incorrect idea of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I suppose part of it is talking with Catholics who have the wrong idea themselves?! And of course there will be random priests or church members that are a bit...mistaken, but they do not speak for the official Catholic teachings.

[Ellie]

Thank you, Catholic ladies, for answering this. I know...these questions aren't always...friendly threads, but I wanted you guys to know some of us read them (almost) silently & appreciate your thoughtful & heartfelt explanations. :001_smile:

(((Aubrey)))

[WIS0320]

 

It is very interesting how so many people have an incorrect idea of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I suppose part of it is talking with Catholics who have the wrong idea themselves?! And of course there will be random priests or church members that are a bit...mistaken, but they do not speak for the official Catholic teachings.

 

It would be nice if people would just crack open the Catechism of the Catholic Church instead of relying on misinformation from disgruntled former Catholics (who were probably poorly catechized!). Gosh, I feel a little testy about this because the same misconceptions are related over and over and over again by people who are relying on poor information. The CCC is easily available, it is indexed and everything! Catholic.com isn't too shabby either.

 

It's fine to disagree but at least have some base knowledge about what you are attempting to disagree with. :tongue_smilie:

[Avila]

I'd be very surprised if you asked your Catholic friends and relatives if they thought "all they needed to do to get to Heaven" was to participate in the sacraments and if they regarded it sort of like a "FREE get out of Jail card"... and they said, "yes, that's right". As in, let's ignore God all week long, sin left and right without a care...but then we'll hit the church on Sundays and Holy Days and all is good. Oh, and throw in a confession here and there. I don't think your friends would REALLY say that, would they?! If so, I sure am sorry to hear it.

 

It is very interesting how so many people have an incorrect idea of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. I suppose part of it is talking with Catholics who have the wrong idea themselves?! And of course there will be random priests or church members that are a bit...mistaken, but they do not speak for the official Catholic teachings.

 

I think it would be like if I said that all Protestants just need to pray the sinner's prayer, and it is a done deal. Just pray, and never think about it again because you are good to go. Would you really say that a 30 second prayer is the only thing in a 100 year life to matter? That would be quite a stretch, and it would be an exaggeration, but if I only went by the tv preachers and the occasional altar call at Vbs, I might come away thinking it. But spreading this kind of information would be uncharitable and untrue.

 

It is usually better to let the adherent explain their own faith than to jump in and explain it for them, IMO.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Asenik

[Teachin'Mine]

The sacrament of reconciliation is founded on the verses of John 20:21-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:11-21. The priest bestows the sacrament, God bestows the forgiveness.;)

 

Thank you! :)

[Spy Car]

Unfortunately there is a lot of disinformation put out there about what Roman Catholics supposedly believe. I don't know why some people feel the need to perpetuate untruths and ignorance, but is is pervasive.

 

Bill

[Aubrey]

It would be nice if people would just crack open the Catechism of the Catholic Church instead of relying on misinformation from disgruntled former Catholics (who were probably poorly catechized!). Gosh, I feel a little testy about this because the same misconceptions are related over and over and over again by people who are relying on poor information. The CCC is easily available, it is indexed and everything! Catholic.com isn't too shabby either.

 

It's fine to disagree but at least have some base knowledge about what you are attempting to disagree with. :tongue_smilie:

 

This was my understanding of the priesthood, too, & I did read the Catechism, cover to cover, iirc. I wish there were no eyerolling: it really never occurred to me that a priest might be fulfilling a role similar to a pastor.

 

The verses cited were helpful, too: I don't know if I *agree* w/ the interpretation (not that anyone's asking me!), but it is really, really helpful to *see* where the ideas come from. They're not as random as I thought.

 

AND...I can't tell you how close I came to answering this thread. :o I'm not Catholic, but I did think I understood this concept, & no one else had responded yet. Luckily, I thought better of it, but I don't always, esp irl. Anyway...sorry for other threads I've bungled up. And thank you (sincerely!) for putting up w/ misconceptions w/ grace as much as you can. I'm only one person, but *I* think it makes you all look good. ;)

[Avila]

This was my understanding of the priesthood, too, & I did read the Catechism, cover to cover, iirc. I wish there were no eyerolling: it really never occurred to me that a priest might be fulfilling a role similar to a pastor.

 

The verses cited were helpful, too: I don't know if I *agree* w/ the interpretation (not that anyone's asking me!), but it is really, really helpful to *see* where the ideas come from. They're not as random as I thought.

 

AND...I can't tell you how close I came to answering this thread. :o I'm not Catholic, but I did think I understood this concept, & no one else had responded yet. Luckily, I thought better of it, but I don't always, esp irl. Anyway...sorry for other threads I've bungled up. And thank you (sincerely!) for putting up w/ misconceptions w/ grace as much as you can. I'm only one person, but *I* think it makes you all look good. ;)

 

:grouphug:

 

Aubrey, there is a difference between trying to answer something and trying to debunk it. As soon as the poster starts refuting and throwing out scripture like a weapon, I am afraid I start to lose my grace for it.

 

I don't mind answering questions, not on here, in person or in PMs. I never mind honest inquiry or respectful disagreement. But I would always rather be allowed to tell someone what I believe than be told by someone else what their interpretation of my faith is.

 

I know I need to work harder on patience and grace.

[love2read]

Mrs. Twain, I was raised Protestant and became Catholic. One thing I most regret is that I read the bible in light of my own and the minister's ideas and not in its entirety in light of the writings of the early Christians. The Catholic faith is profoundly beautiful and not at all as you imagine it. I've never met a Catholic who thinks the sacraments are a free ticket to heaven, but I knew many Protestants who indulged in their own ideas about God and scripture, rarely agreeing on any point.

[Tutor]

Thank you, Catholic ladies, for answering this. I know...these questions aren't always...friendly threads, but I wanted you guys to know some of us read them (almost) silently & appreciate your thoughtful & heartfelt explanations. :001_smile:

 

What Aubrey said (as usual :001_smile:).

[Sugarfoot]

The sacrament of reconciliation is founded on the verses of John 20:21-23 and 2 Corinthians 5:11-21. The priest bestows the sacrament, God bestows the forgiveness.;)

 

Thank you! :)

 

You're welcome!:)

 

This was my understanding of the priesthood' date=' too, & I did read the Catechism, cover to cover, iirc. I wish there were no eyerolling: it really never occurred to me that a priest might be fulfilling a role similar to a pastor.

 

The verses cited were helpful, too: I don't know if I *agree* w/ the interpretation (not that anyone's asking me!), but it is really, really helpful to *see* where the ideas come from. They're not as random as I thought.

 

AND...I can't tell you how close I came to answering this thread. :o I'm not Catholic, but I did think I understood this concept, & no one else had responded yet. Luckily, I thought better of it, but I don't always, esp irl. Anyway...sorry for other threads I've bungled up. And thank you (sincerely!) for putting up w/ misconceptions w/ grace as much as you can. I'm only one person, but *I* think it makes you all look good. ;)[/quote']

 

If you'd like to know more about the biblical basis of Catholicism, you might like the book, The Biblical Defense of Catholicism. I'll warn you, though, it's not light reading.;) I think a lot of people who come from protestantism find it helpful to see the bible verses cited alongside the Catholic beliefs.

[justamouse]

It would be nice if people would just crack open the Catechism of the Catholic Church instead of relying on misinformation from disgruntled former Catholics (who were probably poorly catechized!). Gosh, I feel a little testy about this because the same misconceptions are related over and over and over again by people who are relying on poor information. The CCC is easily available, it is indexed and everything! Catholic.com isn't too shabby either.

 

It's fine to disagree but at least have some base knowledge about what you are attempting to disagree with. :tongue_smilie:

 

It IS upsetting how the misconceptions are so propagated. But from someone who is so new at this whole Catholicism thing, I honestly don't think the CCC could have been read and understood in the way it was meant to be.

 

Let me back up. The RCC is ancient. I mean, since day one. It is entirely overwhelming to sit in a Protestant POV and try and wrap your head around how much volume and depth there is to the RCC church, written and oral. So I would only be understanding the CCC with my Protestant understanding and unless the Holy Spirit had been previously working in someone toward converting-I mean, an opening of putting an antenna up and saying hey, there might be something to this, you're unwilling to see anything but in the way you'd previously understood or been taught.

Edited May 25, 2011 by justamouse

[cathmom]

It IS upsetting how the misconceptions are so propagated. But from someone who is so new at this whole Catholicism thing, I honestly don't think the CCC could have been read and understood in the way it was meant to be.

 

Let me back up. The RCC is ancient. I mean, since day one. It is entirely overwhelming to sit in a Protestant POV and try and wrap your head around how much volume and depth there is to the RCC church, written and oral. So I would only be understanding the CCC with my Protestant understanding and unless the Holy Spirit had been previously working in someone toward converting-I mean, an opening of putting an antenna up and saying hey, there might be something to this, you're unwilling to see anything but in the way you'd previously understood.

 

Very well said and very true! That's one of the reasons Catholics get so tired because someone can flippantly spout off 5 major misconceptions about the Catholic faith in a couple sentences, and it takes us a book to properly explain the reasons why that isn't so. It gets exhausting!

[WIS0320]

This was my understanding of the priesthood, too, & I did read the Catechism, cover to cover, iirc. I wish there were no eyerolling: it really never occurred to me that a priest might be fulfilling a role similar to a pastor.

 

 

 

I tried to use a smiley that was lighthearted, not eye-rolling (?) so I hope that my intent wasn't misconstrued. I'm impressed that you got through the entire CCC! That is some serious reading and investigating on your part, I really admire you for that.

Edited May 25, 2011 by drexel

[WIS0320]

Very well said and very true! That's one of the reasons Catholics get so tired because someone can flippantly spout off 5 major misconceptions about the Catholic faith in a couple sentences, and it takes us a book to properly explain the reasons why that isn't so. It gets exhausting!

 

Yes, that is true. Catholic theology has both DEPTH and BREADTH. :D

[justamouse]

Very well said and very true! That's one of the reasons Catholics get so tired because someone can flippantly spout off 5 major misconceptions about the Catholic faith in a couple sentences, and it takes us a book to properly explain the reasons why that isn't so. It gets exhausting!

 

You're so right.

 

And this is why the Priest himself and the sacraments are so important. It's not that no one can understand and therefore needs an interpreter, it's rather a position of humility and not pride in thinking I could possibly know all of the answers or that my interpretations are right. I mean, I thought that after 30 years of being Protestant I understood this Christianity thing, because to go off and start your own church is done continuously. Everyone knows better than the next.

 

In RCC the opposite is true. To delve into the depths of the faith (of God), you need to live out the liturgy and the sacraments (of which confession is one) are a part of that.

 

edited to add, I am learning to babble in Catholicism and speak fluent Protestantism-please excuse any lack of translation.

Edited May 25, 2011 by justamouse

[WishboneDawn]

The Bible says that you can't get to heaven by doing good works.

 

You're sort of barking up the wrong tree here. The RC is not a sola scriptura church (neither is mine, the Anglican church). Church tradition plays a very important role in Catholicism so quoting Bible verses makes for good conversation but it's not necessarily going to be a compelling argument for a Catholic. They have other things to consider in the practice of their faith.

 

I always find it tricky anyhow to simply quote a verse and present it as case closed. After all, the Bible does contain James' epistle which is a bit of a challenge to the, "by grace alone," idea.

 

ETA: I don't mean to imply the Bible is unimportant or not central but that it requires balance with other considerations. As an Anglican I'm in a similar spot, compelled for instance to balance scripture with reason and tradition.

Edited May 25, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[WishboneDawn]

 

A lot of well meaning people who are not terribly knowledge about the history of Christianity and the Church have all kinds of wild ideas about our theology. Confession was practiced in the earliest days of Christianity - long before the Bible was compiled into one book and clearly before most people could read and have regular access to a Bible.

 

This is why I tend to think there's a lot of wisdom in the Catholic church's position on tradition and I'm not one who's ever going to go to a sola scriptura church. The Bible is key, yes but the Christian faith has had a life outside the Bible since it began - traditions, rituals, customs - and the Catholic churchs honours that.

 

All this explains why I'm probably more High Church than Low when it comes to the Anglican church. :D

[elegantlion]

I would ask her what she means. I'm betting it's the sacraments (most likely confession), and if so, explain the significance of them for Catholics. In which case you should just smile and tell her you get to talk to The Big Guy just as easily as she does :), and that that is not your *only* mode of communication.

 

:iagree: As a protestant, this would answer my question. I've also had misconceptions about Catholicism in the past. This reply would either make me more curious and I'd ask questions, or your answer would suffice.

[unsinkable]

Most of my relatives are Catholic, so I will share a little about where I think that statement from your friend comes from.

 

Most of the Catholics that I know are taught that they have to do the sacraments in the Catholic Church in order to go to heaven. They also think that if they do these rituals, that is all they need to do so that they are "in" with God. Sort of like they have their ticket to heaven or maybe their "Get out of jail free" card.

 

This contrasts with what the Bible says. The Bible says in Ephesians chapter 2:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

Also, in Romans chapter 10, it says this:

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. "

 

I think your friend was reacting to the common practice and belief that a lot of Catholics hold (or at least the people I know) that they have to do certain works (such as the former requirement of confession) in order to be saved. The Bible says that you can't get to heaven by doing good works. The Bible says that Jesus took away our sins by dying for them on the cross, and that we are saved if we declare our faith in Him and accept Him as our Savior and Lord.

 

:lol: This is so funny. In a thread that asks Catholics to explain their beliefs, a non-Catholic is the first reply.

 

:D:001_smile: :lol:

[ktgrok]

I'd explain that no, we pray to God directly. But that sometimes it is nice to have a priest to pray with you, just as a protestant might have a spiritual mentor pray with them.

[Trish]

I am not judging anyone or judging anyone's church.

I am only stating what my friends and relatives believe, and what the Bible says.

 

I doubt your friends and relatives are as simplistic as you portrayed them.

 

Anyway, it isn't the Baptist lady's only objection.

 

Catholics talk directly to God all the time. Confession is a sacrament that is mediated by a priest. As are several other sacraments. Confession is the only one where they issue a Get Out of Jail Free card. Also, the Divine Mercy is "Bank Error in Your Favor."

[Education Explorers]

I would ask her what she means. I'm betting it's the sacraments (most likely confession), and if so, explain the significance of them for Catholics. In which case you should just smile and tell her you get to talk to The Big Guy just as easily as she does :), and that that is not your *only* mode of communication.

 

There has been a lot of discussion of formal catechism which can be extremely helpful for someone who wants to take the time to research it. I'm guessing that the friend in the initial post may not want to wade through such meaty text. While reading the threads, I kept thinking of the analogy that our priest used to try and explain the concept of Confession to little kids (K-1st). It may help to understand that the going through a priest is not the only "access to God" but rather a facilitator to help you "get to God" on your own. Everyone is familiar with the concepts of washing your hands before you eat dinner. Mom's are always commanding and verifying if kids have clean hands before they eat. Confession is a way to "clean" your heart before you go before Jesus (Eucharist). The priest is there to help you do so. Just like when Mom hands you the soap or turns the water on for a little kid... If the faith of a child is so pure and precious, sometimes their explanations are the easiest to digest. Once a concept is grasped on a basic level, then it might be the time to delve into the catechism if the friend is interested in learning more about Catholicism. I don't know if this idea would help, but the little kids sure got it.