How to copy Workbooks like Singapore Math w/o consuming?

[rochesterboy]

When I buy used books from the For Sale forums, I get "like new" workbooks most of the time. I am wondering what do you guys use to make copies of workbooks w/o changing the state of the book.

 

TIA.

[LittleIzumi]

You can scan the pages to print or put a plastic page protector over it & use dry erase markers.

[Ohdanigirl]

My dc write it out in a notebook after 2b.

 

Danielle

[TXBeth]

And is this really legal/ethical? I mean, I understand if people buy a workbook and decide not to use it. But it would be illegal to copy the book and sell the copy, so is it legal to copy it for yourself and sell the original? I doubt it. The sheet protectors I think are more ethical because at least you are not actually making copies of the book in order to sell it.

[stripe]

I also don't think it's cost effective to make xerox copies. I'd rather use something like Math Mammoth or MEP and download copies as needed.

[abbeyej]

I suspect that often times those books you're buying were previously bought and (for whatever reason) not used.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

And is this really legal/ethical? I mean, I understand if people buy a workbook and decide not to use it. But it would be illegal to copy the book and sell the copy, so is it legal to copy it for yourself and sell the original? I doubt it. The sheet protectors I think are more ethical because at least you are not actually making copies of the book in order to sell it.

 

I think for certain it is if the idea is to copy it and they sell it while you continue using the copies but if it's only sold once you're no longer using it, I'm not so sure that would be that different from having put it in page protectors (except that the book is still intact) or copying work to a notepad.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I suspect that often times those books you're buying were previously bought and (for whatever reason) not used.

 

That's what I would think is most likely also.

[melmichigan]

We now use overhead projector pages for any of the extra workbooks in math such as IP or CWP, but I hang on to those for littles yet to come. I am looking at a few of the slip on pages that RR sells for ease of use for this coming fall because they will slide onto a page, they look like they will stay in place better. For Saxon I buy the written practice workbooks from the public school side so my DC can write in those. Mine are for our own use and I don't resell them.

[rootsnwings]

We use page protectors. :)

[Deniseibase]

For the younger grades especially, with my dd for many subjects we did our work orally. So when she finished the lower grade Saxon workbooks, they were a little rumpled, but not written in - she is actually a little horrified at the idea of writing in a book :) So we saved the workbooks for my son - who LOVES to write and draw, so of course the workbooks are getting used up NOW :) But doing the work orally is one way to preserve a workbook - especially if you are not sure if you will use it, at least do the first few lessons orally! :)

[LittleIzumi]

And is this really legal/ethical? I mean, I understand if people buy a workbook and decide not to use it. But it would be illegal to copy the book and sell the copy, so is it legal to copy it for yourself and sell the original? I doubt it. The sheet protectors I think are more ethical because at least you are not actually making copies of the book in order to sell it.

 

I would only copy the pages for siblings to use (which is usually okay), but not to sell. I am pretty sure copying it & keeping the copies & then selling the book is illegal. I have used a page protector on one that I wanted to save for a sibling but we ended up ditching the program so I sold it.

[Aubrey]

I suspect that often times those books you're buying were previously bought and (for whatever reason) not used.

 

Unless the book states that it can be copied, copying the whole thing would be a copyright violation. The page protector thing is more of a gray area, imo, but it's so expensive to buy that many pp & so impractical to do, it's not worth it to me, usually.

 

When I've sold WBs, it's been because we didn't use them, not because we xeroxed them.

[stripe]

I hate the smell of dry erase markers.

[Dinsfamily]

Unless the book states that it can be copied, copying the whole thing would be a copyright violation. The page protector thing is more of a gray area, imo, but it's so expensive to buy that many pp & so impractical to do, it's not worth it to me, usually.

 

When I've sold WBs, it's been because we didn't use them, not because we xeroxed them.

 

:iagree: Copying usually isn't legal. We've only copied when explicitly given permission (How Great Thou Art allows it for family members). We did do the page protector thing with the old CWP but only because they went OOP. I wouldn't do it for anything else...it was very time consuming and it wasn't cheap.

[redsquirrel]

Well, it is legal to make copies for your own use.

 

If a book is yours you are allowed to make copies or burn it or use it to prop up a table. Whatever you want. You are allowed to make copies so the pages aren't dirty for more kids. The company can ask/tell you to differently but if you bought the book then it is yours to do with as you wish in your own home. They might have a preference, but it is your property once you buy it. That's why you don't have to give them money when you sell it.

 

if I buy a knitting book, I am allowed to make a copy of the pattern I am using to carry around with me in my knitting bag. I am not allowed to make a copy to give away to a friend. I own the book and the copy is for my own use. My friend didn't buy the book so she shouldn't benefit from the pattern.

[Paige]

When I have something I want to save for younger kids, I have DS write his answers in a separate notebook. I don't think copying and printing new sheets is all that cost effective with the cost of paper, ink, and time.

[AngelBee]

I hate the smell of dry erase markers.

You can use sharpies. Just wipe off with rubbing alcohol. :) Then again, they both smell too. :D

[mamachanse]

When I have something I want to save for younger kids, I have DS write his answers in a separate notebook. I don't think copying and printing new sheets is all that cost effective with the cost of paper, ink, and time.

 

:iagree: This is what I do. If ds needs sheets from Singapore EP I will copy it, but that's only a page every once in a while. It seems that most of the workbooks are cheaper to buy copies of than to copy yourself. Even the cost of printing PDFs seems to be more than buying a print copy in most cases.

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree: Copying usually isn't legal. We've only copied when explicitly given permission (How Great Thou Art allows it for family members). We did do the page protector thing with the old CWP but only because they went OOP. I wouldn't do it for anything else...it was very time consuming and it wasn't cheap.

 

Copying in some circumstances usually is absolutely legal. You are allowed to make copies of something you bought for your own use. There's nothing illegal or unethical about that. You do have certain rights to your property.

 

As a side note I notice Classical Writing offers the suggestion to copy it's workbook pages if you're trying to stay within a budget but have more than one child whom you want to use the workbook.

[The Governess]

Well, it is legal to make copies for your own use.

 

If a book is yours you are allowed to make copies or burn it or use it to prop up a table. Whatever you want. You are allowed to make copies so the pages aren't dirty for more kids. The company can ask/tell you to differently but if you bought the book then it is yours to do with as you wish in your own home. They might have a preference, but it is your property once you buy it. That's why you don't have to give them money when you sell it.

 

if I buy a knitting book, I am allowed to make a copy of the pattern I am using to carry around with me in my knitting bag. I am not allowed to make a copy to give away to a friend. I own the book and the copy is for my own use. My friend didn't buy the book so she shouldn't benefit from the pattern.

 

I think that making copies with the intent of reselling the book later violates the copyright. It's really not any different than making a copy and selling the copy and keeping the original. You are still reproducing with the intent to profit from the reproduction.

 

There was a huge discussion on this, if I recall, about a year or so ago. :D

 

The only time I copy a consumable worksheet is if I think I will need to use it again later for extra practice. I have copied some handwriting worksheets so they could be used more than just once because extra practice was needed. I didn't do it with the intent to resell and I eventually used the original sheets. I think there is a difference between this usage and the first example... but this is an area of serious debate (as are so many things on these boards). :001_smile:

[twoxcell]

Singapore workbooks are not that espensive. I just have my kids write in them. I do not want to hassle with copying and that isn't legal for a consumable workbook anyways unless otherwise stated. We do not write in the textbooks though.

[mystika1]

I slip the entire book into a 2 1/2 gallon ziplock and use wet erase markers. This keeps me from removing the binding and also keeps the other side of the page free from accidental markings.

 

Penny

[kathkath]

I slip the entire book into a 2 1/2 gallon ziplock and use wet erase markers. This keeps me from removing the binding and also keeps the other side of the page free from accidental markings.

 

Penny

 

CLEVER!!!!

[DarlaS]

I suspect that often times those books you're buying were previously bought and (for whatever reason) not used.

 

:iagree:

 

If I ever sell an otherwise consumable workbook, that's why.

[Homemama2]

but it's so expensive to buy that many pp

 

Actually, we only used one....cut it along the side so it slides over the page and then wipe it off when done. One can be used until it becomes hard to erase (but will usually last for a whole book.) We don't do the page protectors for anything but CWP b/c they are out of print. I tried it with another wkbk at one point so I could hopefully let my youngest use it too, but my kids like writing in pencil much better. ;)

[Holly]

I just bought a clear pocket from RR that I can slip an entire wb into...It was only $2 and I'm wishing I'd bought a couple more! I bought it to use with ETC primers and a maze book for my 4yo so she could complete the pages multiple times...not to mention save for my younger DD. For Singapore WBs and ETC 1-8, I'll probably continue to buy them for each child since they seem harder to write on with a dry-erase marker due to the smaller lines.

[Zoo Keeper]

There is such a creature as a side-ways loading page protector; we got a pack of heavy duty ones from Staples. We just slide it over the page being used. I do this with all the math workbooks (and some other workbooks...). These have held up very well. I bought one package three years ago and haven't used it up yet. Low odor markers from Expo are nice too. And Rainbow Resource sells a very good dry erase eraser; it picks up all the little flecks and doesn't leave a bunch of "dust" behind. Well worth the three or four dollars it cost.

 

I know Singapore workbooks are cheap; but I have four kids (and one more coming). I have to cut expenses when I can.

[Iucounu]

This might help some future readers, trying to decide whether copying workbooks is ethical and legal:

http://homeschoolcopyright.com/copyright_quiz.html

[daybreaking]

I'm a former teacher who had the opportunity to become well-versed in copyright laws as part of my training. Despite what some posters have stated, unless the copyright includes a specific note, permitting copies to be made for one's individual family, it is, indeed, illegal to make copies, even for one's own personal use without the intent to resell (i.e., copies for siblings or for extra practice). Although it might seem one has the "right" to make copies since one owns the book, in truth it is not legal.

Edited October 13, 2011 by daybreaking

[freerange]

I hate the smell of dry erase markers.

Dry erase crayons don't smell so bad.

[jplain]

it is, indeed, illegal to make copies, even for one's own personal use without the intent to resell (i.e., copies for siblings or for extra practice).

I disagree with the bolded part. In many cases that would be considered fair use, as long as there is no intent to resell.

 

This tool might be helpful to some: Thinking Through Fair Use.

Edited October 13, 2011 by jplain

[daybreaking]

I disagree with the bolded part. In many cases that would be considered fair use, as long as there is no intent to resell.

 

This tool might be helpful to some: Thinking Through Fair Use.

 

I found this very informative and was interested to read the article. At the same time, after reading through the linked page, as well as the additional links to the fair use guidelines at other institutions, I still would not consider it legal to copy pages for additional practice. The definition given by Stanford University (one of the institutions that was linked) described fair use as being "a copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for purposes of commentary and criticism," which seems to be quite different than copying pages for extra practice, so one doesn't need to buy an additional workbook. Also, one of the four necessary conditions for fair use is that only a small amount of the original material may be copied. Perhaps others interpret the law differently, but for me, I would never feel ethical copying materials for extra practice or for siblings.

[songsparrow]

We tried slipping a page protector over the workbook page and then my daughter using a dry erase crayon or marker, but she didn't like how the page would slip around (we tried holding it in place with binder clips but it was a pain) and didn't like the feel of the crayon or marker.

 

So, she writes her answer to the textbook exercises in her math notebook, and she writes directly in the workbook - we've given up trying to preserve it.

[ElizaG]

At the same time, after reading through the linked page, as well as the additional links to the fair use guidelines at other institutions, I still would not consider it legal to copy pages for additional practice.

:iagree: The standards for "educational fair use" specifically exclude consumable materials. So it wouldn't be legal to copy workbook pages without the publisher's permission.

 

http://depts.washington.edu/uwcopy/Using_Copyright/Guidelines/Copying.php

 

(According to these guidelines, I guess you couldn't copy a coloring page, but you could make several copies of a line drawing and have the children color it in. Hmm.)

Edited October 14, 2011 by Eleanor

[desertmum]

Are ebooks included in this? I mean. If you buy an ebook and print it, can you re-sell it after you are done with it? I imagine that you paid for the ebook it is the same as buying a physical textbook? Or am I wrong?

[lorrainejmc]

Are ebooks included in this? I mean. If you buy an ebook and print it, can you re-sell it after you are done with it? I imagine that you paid for the ebook it is the same as buying a physical textbook? Or am I wrong?

 

No you can't resell it.:( The file will still be on your computer so even if *you* were to delete the file, it is assumed that most people are dishonest and wouldn't delete it.

 

I bought an e-book of seasonal activities that I never used as they were too simple for my youngest and I am struggling with whether I could ethically give the file to my brother for his younger kids. :confused: What's the deal with giving away? I also have Letterland worksheets that were sold as (and priced as) copymasters so I made copies for both my boys when they were using it. Could I give it away or even sell it?

[jplain]

The standards for "educational fair use" specifically exclude consumable materials. So it wouldn't be legal to copy workbook pages without the publisher's permission.

 

http://depts.washington.edu/uwcopy/Using_Copyright/Guidelines/Copying.php

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link to that document. :)