Blowing my mind-the historical average age of puberty in girls between 15-18

[justamouse]

now *THAT* makes total sense.

 

Wow, we've really screwed it up, haven't we?

 

In Europe, in 1830, the average age at menarche was 17. Similarly in the 1980s in rural China, the average age at menarche was 17.3 In the U.S. in 1900, the average was 14.2. By the 1920s, average age at menarche in the U.S. had fallen to 13.3 and by 2002, it had reached 12.34.[4] Similar trends are occurring in other Western nations.[5,6] For example, age at menarche in Ireland has declined from 13.52 in 1986 to 12.53 in 2006.[7] In Italy, a recent study showed that girls' age at menarche was on average 3 months earlier than their mothers'.[8]

 

Read here-but don't if you don't feel like having your blood pressure rise.

[I.Dup.]

I started my period at 13.3 months. I was at least 6 months behind most of my friends at the time (in the mid-90's) I'm always shocked when I hear of girls starting their periods at 8,9,10,11. Crazy. It's got to be due to the hormones in the foods they are eating, or something.

[Slartibartfast]

I started my period at 13.3 months. I was at least 6 months behind most of my friends at the time (in the mid-90's) I'm always shocked when I hear of girls starting their periods at 8,9,10,11. Crazy. It's got to be due to the hormones in the foods they are eating, or something.

 

My dd started her period at nine and we eat mostly organics

 

I dunno, I think it might be partially to do with what I ate when I was growing up.

[twoforjoy]

now *THAT* makes total sense.

 

Wow, we've really screwed it up, haven't we?

 

 

 

Read here-but don't if you don't feel like having your blood pressure rise.

 

I don't know, I disagree with the conclusions. We seem to want to blame EVERYTHING on obesity, ignoring the fact that people today are, according to all evidence, healthier and better nourished than ever before. I'd probably say we're seeing younger ages of onset of menstruation because of improved nutrition and health care across the board. We're seeing averages, after all; if you have a significant portion of your population that is desperately poor and malnourished, and not menstruating until 17 or 18, that's going to drive the averages up. If you've ensured, as a society, that nearly all of your members are being sufficiently fed and cared for medically, you're going to see less of that, and averages will go down.

[Aubrey]

Is it *possible* that the fertility rate of girls who mature at younger ages would be higher than that of girls who mature later? Therefore, as the decades progress, the gene for younger maturity would gradually pervade the population.

 

Just musing.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Aubrey

[Slartibartfast]

I don't know, I disagree with the conclusions. We seem to want to blame EVERYTHING on obesity, ignoring the fact that people today are, according to all evidence, healthier and better nourished than ever before. I'd probably say we're seeing younger ages of onset of menstruation because of improved nutrition and health care across the board. We're seeing averages, after all; if you have a significant portion of your population that is desperately poor and malnourished, and not menstruating until 17 or 18, that's going to drive the averages up. If you've ensured, as a society, that nearly all of your members are being sufficiently fed and cared for medically, you're going to see less of that, and averages will go down.

 

No, people who make decent money are healthier and better nourished than ever before.

[MindyD]

I don't know, I disagree with the conclusions. We seem to want to blame EVERYTHING on obesity, ignoring the fact that people today are, according to all evidence, healthier and better nourished than ever before. I'd probably say we're seeing younger ages of onset of menstruation because of improved nutrition and health care across the board. We're seeing averages, after all; if you have a significant portion of your population that is desperately poor and malnourished, and not menstruating until 17 or 18, that's going to drive the averages up. If you've ensured, as a society, that nearly all of your members are being sufficiently fed and cared for medically, you're going to see less of that, and averages will go down.

 

:iagree:

[twoforjoy]

I think the thing we need to think about is, what was life (and health) like for the average person living in Europe in 1830? There was widespread poverty and starvation, child labor, tons of industrial pollution, unsanitary living conditions, etc. So I'm not really sure we should be assuming that the age puberty was beginning then is somehow the best or most healthy or most natural age to begin.

 

I don't know the stats for Europe, but in the U.S., the average life expectancy in 1830 was around 45-50 (depending on where you lived). I don't think we'd point to that and somehow assume we must have been doing things just right back then.

[justamouse]

I don't know, I disagree with the conclusions. We seem to want to blame EVERYTHING on obesity, ignoring the fact that people today are, according to all evidence, healthier and better nourished than ever before. I'd probably say we're seeing younger ages of onset of menstruation because of improved nutrition and health care across the board. We're seeing averages, after all; if you have a significant portion of your population that is desperately poor and malnourished, and not menstruating until 17 or 18, that's going to drive the averages up. If you've ensured, as a society, that nearly all of your members are being sufficiently fed and cared for medically, you're going to see less of that, and averages will go down.

This is what the author says:

 

Children with lower nutrient diets (based on analysis of macronutrients, vitamins, minerals, and certain whole foods) tend to enter puberty earlier.[19] Overall our modern diet rich in processed foods, dairy, processed meats and fast food is disruptive to normal development and aging. Early puberty is an early sign of premature aging.

 

[Rosie_0801]

I've read stuff that linked age of menarche to levels of consumption of animal protein. Apparently there's a mob in rural China who don't start until they're 21, give or take. That could be heredity, of course or other factors, but it's an idea I'd like to know more about. They reach menopause at an earlier age too, I can't remember the average age for that though.

 

Rosie

Edited May 6, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[Rebecca VA]

I started at 14-1/2, but I was very small and underweight. My daughter started at 13-1/2.

[twoforjoy]

No, people who make decent money are healthier and better nourished than ever before.

 

I'm not sure that's true in Western countries; I think most have managed to provide sufficient social support services so that widespread starvation and total lack of access to medical care (especially in Western countries other than the U.S.) have been largely eradicated.

 

Sure, the health and nutrition of the poor in the U.S. could stand significant improvements, but it's still much better than it was 50 or 100 years ago.

[twoforjoy]

This is what the author says:

 

That doesn't make any sense, though. Later ages of onset of puberty have been associated with societies that had much shorter life expectancies; if "premature puberty" (which I assume means, "earlier than this author thinks is good") were really associated with "premature aging," we'd see life expectancies falling as onset of puberty came earlier, but we're seeing the exact opposite. I just don't think his conclusions line up with the facts.

 

HuffPo has a huge bias towards the kind of organic, "whole foods" diet that is so in vogue with the upper classes. I'm not saying that's a bad way to eat, but there are huge cultural assumptions behind that that do need to be unpacked. I think that's what we're seeing here.

[justamouse]

I think the thing we need to think about is, what was life (and health) like for the average person living in Europe in 1830? There was widespread poverty and starvation, child labor, tons of industrial pollution, unsanitary living conditions, etc. So I'm not really sure we should be assuming that the age puberty was beginning then is somehow the best or most healthy or most natural age to begin.

 

I don't know the stats for Europe, but in the U.S., the average life expectancy in 1830 was around 45-50 (depending on where you lived). I don't think we'd point to that and somehow assume we must have been doing things just right back then.

 

Yes, but even poor food was better food. No widespread chemical use on crops, no refrigeration trucks that brought your fruit from Chile. You ate what you had, and what you had was seasonal and put up.

 

They're finding out now that Bayer's pesticides are what was causing Colony Collapse Disease in honeybees (they stopped grooming themselves) so what is all of that doing to us? And there's problems like those in every age.

[justamouse]

That doesn't make any sense, though. Later ages of onset of puberty have been associated with societies that had much shorter life expectancies; if "premature puberty" (which I assume means, "earlier than this author thinks is good") were really associated with "premature aging," we'd see life expectancies falling as onset of puberty came earlier, but we're seeing the exact opposite. I just don't think his conclusions line up with the facts.

 

What about then longer ages of menarche being thought to cause some of the female cancers? If you're right and earlier ages are good and we are living longer, (also good) then why the problems with longer estrogen causing breast cancer?

[justamouse]

I'm not sure that's true in Western countries; I think most have managed to provide sufficient social support services so that widespread starvation and total lack of access to medical care (especially in Western countries other than the U.S.) have been largely eradicated.

 

Sure, the health and nutrition of the poor in the U.S. could stand significant improvements, but it's still much better than it was 50 or 100 years ago.

 

 

Is it though? Or is it fluff? Meaning that eating a smaller amount of highly nutritious food is equal to eating lots of food of negligible nutrition? (I'm not a nutritionist, I'm asking sincerely, not being snarky. I didn't realize I was answering so fast, sorry.

[Teachin'Mine]

In China, the woman's cycle is publicly posted. How anxious would you be to let the world know? It's all part of their population control. This may be why the starting age is higher. ;)

 

I'm also wondering how accurate data is from the 1800's and early 1900's. This was a topic which wasn't really discussed. Supplies were wrapped in brown paper, etc.. I'd be surprised if this info is accurate since the marriage age was so much younger. If it is accurate, I'm wondering if a lack of good nutrition was partially responsible. They didn't have the chemical additives and hormones back then, but they certainly didn't have the nutrition we have today.

 

But I definitely am concerned about the trend in how young girls are these days. Something's not right for sure. :confused:

[TKDmom]

What about the effects that poverty would have had on girls' growing bodies 200 years ago? Weren't there a lot of girls who never got enough to eat, while working themselves to exhaustion? I'd think that would delay the onset of puberty. 15-18 seems too old to be normal to me. Not that I think puberty at age 8 is at all normal. I find it rather disturbing to see such young girls approaching puberty...

 

ETA: Oh nevermind, I see that I'm just echoing everyone else's thoughts. I was coerced into reading several Dr. Seuss books while I was trying to post. ;)

Edited May 6, 2011 by bonniebeth4

[Teachin'Mine]

I hadn't read through the thread before posting above. I see the nutrition aspect has been addressed. I agree that as a general rule, nutrition was much worse years ago.

[Wheres Toto]

I'd be surprised if this info is accurate since the marriage age was so much younger.

 

 

 

This is what I'm wondering about. I always thought it was fairly common for girls to marry, and start having children, in their early teen's way back then.

[WishboneDawn]

Is it *possible* that the fertility rate of women who girls at younger ages would be higher than that of girls who mature later? Therefore, as the decades progress, the gene for younger maturity would gradually pervade the population.

 

Just musing.

 

It seems to be less genetic and more related to environmental changes like nutrition. If it were genetic and related to evolution we wouldn't be seeing such dramatic changes within a generation or two.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not sure that's true in Western countries; I think most have managed to provide sufficient social support services so that widespread starvation and total lack of access to medical care (especially in Western countries other than the U.S.) have been largely eradicated.

 

Sure, the health and nutrition of the poor in the U.S. could stand significant improvements, but it's still much better than it was 50 or 100 years ago.

 

But in the US we do not have wide spready access to medical care. I think most of us realize how costly it is to go to the dentist. I have needed to have my wisdom teeth pulled for years now and we can't afford it. We have medical insurance and we have dental insurance but it is still costly.

 

The number one reason people go bankrupt in the US is medical bills.

 

We also do not have widespread nutrition available.

 

School lunches make up the majority of the nutrition that millions of children recieve. If those children are eating cheese stuffed breadsticks, hot pockets and "beef fingers" (all things on the lunch menu in my area right now) then no, that is not going to lead to well nourished children.

 

There is that documentary Food Inc. It presents a child wanting an apple at the store, but that apple is more expensive than a cheese burger so her parents get the cheese burger.

 

We do need to stop subsidizing crap food and insist any subsidies go to healthier choices so they are more affordable.

 

It isn't food snobbery, we are PAYING for the bad food. My tax dollars are subsidizing McDonald's. That shouldn't be happening

[WishboneDawn]

I started at 14-1/2, but I was very small and underweight. My daughter started at 13-1/2.

 

I was 15, relatively tall and above average in weight (though not overweight) and started at 15. My tall willowy daughter started at 12.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I don't know, people in general are healthier then they were then. We have longer life spans, people are taller, and yes, weigh more. Better nutrition changes a lot.

[Daisy]

We eat excellently. Organic, local, lean animal proteins. My kids took their multi-vitamins. They exercise. They are tall and thin. It doesn't seem to have mattered one bit. My daughter started her period at almost 11yo. We don't watch tv (for those who like to think it is exposure to sexual matters at a young age. Oh brother).

 

I was 12.5 when I started mine. Again, my mother was a health food nut and we were all thin healthy kids. My mom was 18yo when she started hers, but my grandmother was 12yo. So who knows.

 

I wonder though if it doesn't have something to do with the HORRIBLE pollution here. We rank top in the nation for air pollution. Though I imagine pollution was much worse during the late 1800's and early 1900's in most major cities.

 

I don't know. All I know is there was absolutely nothing we could do about it.

[justamouse]

My Nana was 15, my Mom was 12 I was 11 and my oldest Dd was 11.

 

Since then I ahve made *drastic* changes to the way we eat (and plastics/chemicals in the house), and my twin girls are much thinner than what my oldest was at her weight, and they are no where near puberty yet. I am hoping to God I can hold them off.

 

The overweight daughter of my best friend is 9 and started. I wanted to cry for her. That is just entirely too young to be dealing with all of those emotions. Granted, my BF has made none of the changes I have, either.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't know, people in general are healthier then they were then. We have longer life spans, people are taller, and yes, weigh more. Better nutrition changes a lot.

 

I think that is more due to antibiotics, hand washing and better sanitaton than anything to do with nutrition. No one in my family died of starvation. My great grandmother died of a bladder infection, I have a bladder condition. It's chilling to know I could be dead of something so simple now.

 

My family were all farmers 100 years ago, I don't think it can be proven that I have better access to things that are good for me than they did.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Sis

[nmoira]

I thought I'd read that the average age of menarche in ancient Rome was 12 or 13. I'll see if I can dig that up.

[KarenNC]

I started at age 9 (1972). My daughter started at 10.5.

[Paige]

I thought I'd read that the average age of menarche in ancient Rome was 12 or 13. I'll see if I can dig that up.

 

I think that is true. I remember reading that the average age of marriage was 12/13 because girls became "ready" for marriage when they began menstruating.

 

I was the smallest girl in my class by far, so skinny all the doctors were convinced I was anorexic and my family was in denial, but I started my period at 11. My friend, who was also extremely thin, started around 9. I don't think it is because people are overweight. It is a correlation but not the cause.

[Dobela]

I had my first period in 1979. I was 9 years old, just a couple of months shy of being 10. I was in the 4th grade and the only person I knew having their periods. In 5th grade I met a couple of other girls who had started and we fast became friends over this 'bonding experience'. I was not over weight - I was 5 ft 2 and weighed maybe 100 pounds.

[justamouse]

It's not just being overweight, the article references many different reasons, all of which are a current problem in our society.

 

Some of the things I have done are stop using plastics to store food, not microwave in plastic and try not to microwave at all. Limit the chemicals in the house, make sure our food is either made from scratch or not far from its original state. We stopped using products with Phtalates (as far as I know). Buying hormone/antibiotic free free milk and limiting dairy intake that's not organic.

 

But it's like a freaking uphill battle.

[Wheres Toto]

I had my first period in 1979. I was 9 years old, just a couple of months shy of being 10. I was in the 4th grade and the only person I knew having their periods.

 

Exactly my story except I was 9 in 1978. I was always thin but I went from being one of the shortest kids in the class in 4th grade to one of the tallest in 5th grade. My mother was a healthy eating nut since she thought it would help my brothers ADHD - no chemicals, no preservatives, etc.

 

My oldest started at 12 years old. She has always been lean with a lot of muscle from dancing all the time. Her diet was definitely not as good as mine as a kid - we used to eat out a lot when she was a young kid.

[JFSinIL]

I started just before I turned 12...my kid sister three months later a few months shy of her 11th b'day.

 

Yet - my overweight dd was over 13...her slender kid sister over 14. So much for heredity (unless they took after the other side of the family - my in-laws would NEVER discuss such a topic, though!).

[Jane in NC]

In a segment on Science Friday today, a researcher noted that the earlier age of menarche in our culture may be due to fat.

 

One thing is worth noting: female athletes often quit menstruating. There is a theory that this is due to reduced body fat.

 

All of this leads to another question for those who are skeptical of the article: how do you explain amenorrhea in female athletes?

[LisaKinVA]

My mom started at 13.5... I started about the same age (it was August, so technically I was a bit older). My mom was really thin. I was more "average."

 

My dd is almost 9.5 and has no signs of puberty yet (thank the good Lord). She does have friends who are her age (and a little older) who are developing. I think I got my training bra in the 6th or 7th grade. I was also made fun of in 7th grade because I hadn't started yet.

 

I do watch what my kids eat. We can't afford all organic, but we do the best we can.

[LostSurprise]

I was overweight and almost 14. My diet was terrible. I was also very irregular throughout high school and part of college. I didn't become regular until after I had my first child. My mother was 12 and very regular.

 

I was more in line with both my grandmothers, especially my paternal grandmother...or so my mother says.

[lmkzbcb]

In a segment on Science Friday today, a researcher noted that the earlier age of menarche in our culture may be due to fat.

 

One thing is worth noting: female athletes often quit menstruating. There is a theory that this is due to reduced body fat.

 

All of this leads to another question for those who are skeptical of the article: how do you explain amenorrhea in female athletes?

 

I think these are some good points. And with body fat you could be thin yet have a higher level of fat, than someone larger than you who has more lean muscle mass. Hmmm... You wouldn't know the BMI unless you checked it. Weight is not a good determining factor, if you are looking at body fat.

 

 

About the age and being in an afluent country, I think I remember reading that Mexico has one of the youngest average ages around the world. They are def. not afluent; so, I dont think that flies.

Edited May 6, 2011 by lmkzbcb

[I.Dup.]

I agree that it is mostly due to fat and the hormones stored in fat.

 

Very rarely will a truly thin child start menstruating early. I don't just mean starving thin, I mean just plain thin. You have GOT to have a certain amount of fat to start menstruating, and girls are getting fatter earlier than ever.

[TravelingChris]

I think there have been some studies linking lower income families to younger ages but obviously any linkages are just that, not plain cause and affect. I think that the Mexicans with the very young age of puberty are less likely to eat meat and drink milk to the same extent as Americans.

 

I was about 13.5, my older d was also about the same age, and younger d was almost 14. Both myself at that age and older d were very thin, and younger d is more average. We all ate meat and drank lots of milk. None of us drank sodas. I don't really know about the plastics. I tend not to store food much so maybe they ate less from plastic containers???

[lmkzbcb]

Maybe it does have more to do with BMI and a woman's genetic propensity to their BMI??

 

Also, I know that today we eat a lot more meat and meat products than even my grandmother's generation and she lived on a farm all her life. That is a big contributor to fat in the body.

[Annabel Lee]

I think it's caused by a number of things discussed here, and each case might have it's own unique ratio of contributors, which I believe are largely environmental. BPA and pthalates are known to mess with gender/s3x hormones (see The Bag-It Movie). Pollution is to blame as well. Studies on amphibians living in contaminant laiden waters show interference with normal s3xual maturation. The contaminants weren't only pesticides, but all the medications that are in our water tables (namely birth control meds). Modern diet affects it too, I'm sure, as we have by far more overweight kids than ever.

 

But it's a mix of these things, and it's not consistent across the board with all of them. I wasn't overweight, my mom kept sugar out of the house, and we ate fairly healthy food (for what my parents knew in the '80's anyhow - mostly wild game meat, lots of veg/beans), BUT they microwaved/stored everything in plastic and thought "organic" products (when they became more popular in the '90's) were a sales hoax. I was 9. It varies. I really think there's a large pool of environmental factors that can cause girls to start earlier than normal, and then there are girls who might do that under any circumstance due to their own body chemistry.

 

ETA: This makes me think of what I'm told that my great-great grandmother said when she first saw white, refined sugar: "White sugar is the devil".

[AnitaMcC]

I don't know. Seems in my family early pubertyfor females is the norm.

 

My mom started menarche in 6th grade (I think she was young 11), my sister started by age 12, I started 6th grade (early age 11), my niece (sister's Dd) started end of 5th grade (late age 11), my Dd started by age 11. And from what I have heard, my mom's mom started before 13 and same with my mom's sister.

 

And all of us were underweight or low end of normal weight at the start of puberty. In fact with me, niece, and my Dd, our doctors thought we would have very late puberty because we had practically no body fat. I didn't even hit over 100lbs until I was in my 3rd month of the twins pregnancy when I was 26yrs old.

[lmkzbcb]

I think that the Mexicans with the very young age of puberty are less likely to eat meat and drink milk to the same extent as Americans.

 

Maybe.....I think it would be hard to know this unless there was a study done on it.

 

However, every culture has a genetic propensity to certain BMI levels. In other words, the type of food and amount of food does not always correlate to a person's BMI. Often times it is our genetics that determine how we will process food and store fat. Obviously, not the only contributor, but def. effects it.

Edited May 6, 2011 by lmkzbcb

[AngelBee]

Is it *possible* that the fertility rate of women who girls at younger ages would be higher than that of girls who mature later? Therefore, as the decades progress, the gene for younger maturity would gradually pervade the population.

 

Just musing.

I don't know.

 

My mom was 9 or 10 (4th grade)

 

I was 17 I think. Maybe 16. Jr year of high school.

 

My sister was 12 or 13.

[lmkzbcb]

I didn't even hit over 100lbs until I was in my 3rd month of the twins pregnancy when I was 26yrs old.

 

Please excuse me while I use you as an example. :)

 

A woman can be 100 lbs, but have a higher BMI (fat ratio) than a woman at 135lbs. Weight has nothing to do with BMI.

[catz]

II'd probably say we're seeing younger ages of onset of menstruation because of improved nutrition and health care across the board. We're seeing averages, after all; if you have a significant portion of your population that is desperately poor and malnourished, and not menstruating until 17 or 18, that's going to drive the averages up. If you've ensured, as a society, that nearly all of your members are being sufficiently fed and cared for medically, you're going to see less of that, and averages will go down.

 

:iagree:

[AnitaMcC]

Please excuse me while I use you as an example. :)

 

A woman can be 100 lbs, but have a higher BMI (fat ratio) than a woman at 135lbs. Weight has nothing to do with BMI.

 

I also had a very low BMI... I was measured in the Navy when I joined at 17 and I was at 7% BMI. The doctors had to do some other tests on me to verify. When I got out of Navy I was 24, I was measured again and I was at 10% BMI.

 

I was very small but also muscled and was very athletic growing up. I started my period when I was 11 and never ever missed one until I was pregnant with my twins. I was so regular that I literally could predict when I would have my period two years in advance-LOL. My cylce was short though.. 21 day cycle with 3 days of period.

 

My Dd was measured and her BMI is around 8%. She is very athletic too (trains/competes in martial arts). She is 5'3" and is 102lbs.

 

My niece was same way too. Very athletic and tiny but muscled (we are the shorties in the family-LOL).

 

I just wonder if the puberty thing is more genetic than anything. Just seems to be in my family. I don't know about my brother's Dd.

[lmkzbcb]

My cylce was short though.. 21 day cycle with 3 days of period.

 

You lucky dog!! ;)

[Julie Smith]

This is what I'm wondering about. I always thought it was fairly common for girls to marry, and start having children, in their early teen's way back then.

 

Are you sure that girls married in there early teens. I read that many girls would first work for a few years to help out her parents (As pay-back for providing giving birth to her and supporting her before she was able to work), or put aside some money for when she was to get married. And then not marry till 20 or later.