Cremation

[Aubrey]

Consecrated is, I believe, blessed ground. I also think the idea of keeping them together is because of the respect due to our bodies.

 

Sure, but blessed by whom? I mean, what part of the earth that *God* created is UNconsecrated?

[TravelingChris]

In Belgium, and probably many other parts of Europe, people are buried only for seven years, and then another body is buried in the same place. It is because they don't have that much space and don't want to run out of space. The old burial grounds aren't messed with but newer ones are only temporary. However, the cemeteries are much prettier. Instead of plain grass, people grow beautiful flowers on the grave. Oh and they also consider Chrysanthemums to be grave flowers and so were kind of shocked when I bought huge ones to put on the entrance to my driveway. I was just so shocked that I could get these incredibly lovely Mums for such a low price (the biggest plants of these kind I had ever seen for 5 euros each).

[lionfamily1999]

Sure, but blessed by whom? I mean, what part of the earth that *God* created is UNconsecrated?

I don't know. As far as I know Baptists don't worry about consecrated ground, but from I can gather from Charles Dickens it would be blessed by the church or one of the church's representatives ;) Biblically, it seems like the grounds were consecrated by God and only specific bits and pieces. When God says, "Take off your shoes" then you know you're on holy ground.

[AnnaM]

I am baptist and have never heard of consecrated ground. The only time that holy ground even comes to mind are those times when God was manifesting himself physically somewhere.

 

I was listening to Todd Friel and he talked briefly about this. He said that he doesnt believe it to be "wrong" but that it could possibly give the idea that we have no hope of ressurection.

 

Since I have no Biblical reference for it, my personal belief is that since at the time of cremation our souls would already be at their eternal destination there would be no issue. I don't believe you are going to be sitting in heaven and then all of a sudden be dumped into hell because someone burned your body.

[milovany]

Aubrey,

 

Sorry it took me longer to get back than I'd said. I did already mention it's the practice of the Orthodox church to bury those who have fallen asleep. Much of the reason why has been mentioned by others (honoring the body God gave us when making us in His image, because we have received the body and blood of Christ in our bodies, because our bodies are resurrected along with our spirits, etc.). I'd also mention that I see it as Biblical to bury instead of cremate, just because it is what you see taking place. There might not be a specific teaching in the Bible ("Thou shalt bury your dead" or "Thou shalt not cremate") but the dead ARE buried, not burned. The way God's people lived and died means something. Christ himself wasn't cremated, and I think it would be appalling to suggest that it wouldn't matter if he had been. His body's burial means something -- that we ought to care for the body even after death.

 

With that said, from what I understand, there are times when the situation doesn't fall under "the norm." The Orthodox in Japan, I believe, are cremated under the demand of the law in that land; there are people whose bodies are destroyed in the way they die; many of the saints did perish on a bonfire (it's interesting to note that when that did happen, the faithful did what they could to obtain any remaining relics and give at least *those* a proper burial; it's also interesting to note that there are many, many instances where the relics/remains of the saints resisted corruption which indicates something of a consecrated state, I think). Anyway, all that to reiterate what I said above -- condemning someone to hell because of these things is not a place in which we individuals should stand; it's not our place to know the final judgment on a soul. But it's the practice of the Orthodox church to bury, not cremate, their dead.

Edited March 9, 2011 by milovaný

[milovany]

I am baptist and have never heard of consecrated ground. The only time that holy ground even comes to mind are those times when God was manifesting himself physically somewhere.

 

For those who believe that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ, as the Eastern Orthodox (and others) do, our bodies become consecrated "ground" by receiving this sacrament into them. Orthodox cemeteries would be consecrated because they hold the bodies of the faithful. And our churches are holy ground because this is where the Eucharist is consecrated and served; it's literally a place where heaven touches earth. Before we converted, I had never heard of this either, so just thought I'd mention that this is partly where we're coming from in this thread.

Edited March 9, 2011 by milovaný

[unsinkable]

Again, though--why? What makes ground consecrated, & what happens if they're not kept together?

 

What happens to whom?

 

The ashes? Nothing happens to the ashes if they are not buried together.

 

What happens to the person who scatters the ashes or doesn't bury them or burys them in non-consecrated ground?

 

That's not my call. You'll have to ask the Big Guy -- God.

 

Consecrated ground is ground set aside for a sacred purpose.

[unsinkable]

Burying the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy.

 

If it wasn't important, why does every culture on earth have some kind of ritual associated with it?

[Aubrey]

Burying the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy.

 

If it wasn't important, why does every culture on earth have some kind of ritual associated with it?

 

They don't all bury their dead. I don't think people who choose cremation think that the treatment of their loved ones after death is unimportant; their "rituals" are simply different.

[unsinkable]

Burying the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy.

 

If it wasn't important, why does every culture on earth have some kind of ritual associated with it?

 

They don't all bury their dead. I don't think people who choose cremation think that the treatment of their loved ones after death is unimportant; their "rituals" are simply different.

 

OK, I wrote that w/o enough elaboration.

 

How's this:

 

FOr ROman Catholics, burying the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy. As a RC, following the dictates/traditions/rituals of MY faith is important.

 

In addition, I feel Caring for the dead is important. If it wasn't important, why does every culture on earth have some kind of ritual associated with it?

 

I couldn't care less how anyone else buries/cremates/cares for their dead. That is up to them. If they want to tell me why, I'd love to know.

 

(I DO know that not everyone/everywhere/every time doesn't bury their dead. I just didn't take the time to write out it specifically.)

Edited March 9, 2011 by unsinkable

[lionfamily1999]

For those who believe that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ, as the Eastern Orthodox (and others) do, our bodies become consecrated "ground" by receiving this sacrament into them. Orthodox cemeteries would be consecrated because they hold the bodies of the faithful. And our churches are holy ground because this is where the Eucharist is consecrated and served; it's literally a place where heaven touches earth. Before we converted, I had never heard of this either, so just thought I'd mention that this is partly where we're coming from in this thread.

Okay, thanks :D

 

What happens to whom?

 

The ashes? Nothing happens to the ashes if they are not buried together.

 

What happens to the person who scatters the ashes or doesn't bury them or burys them in non-consecrated ground?

 

That's not my call. You'll have to ask the Big Guy -- God.

 

Consecrated ground is ground set aside for a sacred purpose.

Okay, I thought it meant blessed, but set aside makes more sense.

They don't all bury their dead. I don't think people who choose cremation think that the treatment of their loved ones after death is unimportant; their "rituals" are simply different.

Right, they have different rituals. So do the people that think cremation is wrong. They have different beliefs that lead to different rituals, but most (all?) cultures have some ritual that goes with the death of a loved one so it must be important on a spiritual level. Else, why would we all be bothering?

OK, I wrote that w/o enough elaboration.

 

How's this:

 

FOr ROman Catholics, burying the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy. As a RC, following the dictates/traditions/rituals of MY faith is important.

 

In addition, I feel Caring for the dead is important. If it wasn't important, why does every culture on earth have some kind of ritual associated with it?

 

I couldn't care less how anyone else buries/cremates/cares for their dead. That is up to them. If they want to tell me why, I'd love to know.

 

(I DO know that not everyone/everywhere/every time doesn't bury their dead. I just didn't take the time to write out it specifically.)

It's funny. I never really cared about all this, my pov being I won't be here anyway. Now, I feel like I need to put more thought into all this :lol:

[PinkInTheBlue]

I told my kids to cremate me and stick me in the compost. Funeral services are such a rip off. And please, don't visit my grave. I won't be there. Just look at my scrapbooks. Just remember me.

 

Oh, and by all means, the medical community may take anything of mine that they need. I'd be honored to know that I continued to help someone long after I'm gone.

 

My thoughts and instructions to my family exactly. Me, my husband and my mother all want the same things for our bodies.

 

Also, I do NOT want a funeral or a grave. I despise the entire funeral tradition we have and consider most of it a rip off and emotional sabotage. I would rather do almost anything except attend a funeral but I know that's just me and my opinion. :)

[Aubrey]

My thoughts and instructions to my family exactly. Me, my husband and my mother all want the same things for our bodies.

 

Also, I do NOT want a funeral or a grave. I despise the entire funeral tradition we have and consider most of it a rip off and emotional sabotage. I would rather do almost anything except attend a funeral but I know that's just me and my opinion. :)

 

That's funny--that's how I feel about bridal/baby showers. (Weddings are a mixed bag, but I'd prefer to skip them, too.) I love funerals: they seem so honest & face value. Not that I'd volunteer for one, but they usually leave me feeling so much hope because it's one time when people are more likely to be themselves & not some fake version for display.

[Aubrey]

The Orthodox do not believe in cremation because we believe that God made both our soul and our body and that they are both good in creation. After baptism and chrismation (confirmaiton) they are also the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not be willfully and actively involved in their destruction. Yes, they will decompose, but not by our hand or according to our will.

 

It was the Platonic view that the spirit was superior to the body, and that made the body disposable.

 

We love the departed to the last, including the loving preparation of the body and the funeral service together with all that we have left on earth of the one whom we have loved.

 

This is a beautiful explanation. I imagine it would be as hard to depart from that view having been raised in it as it might be to accept it if you were not raised in it.

 

We had my dad cremated. There was no place for him to be buried except by aunts who had not liked him. His body had reached a point that he didn't look himself. We had photos blown up for the service.

 

We took his ashes to scatter them on the beach, but in the end, we were all too raw to let him go. But we each took a share of the ashes. I left bits of my share at some of mine & my dad's favorite places. The rest are with me, sharing birthdays & Christmases.

 

I don't know how I would ever be able to accept that my treatment of my father's body was disrespectful. Of course, he wanted to be taxidermied. You should have seen the look on the funeral director's face when I said so. (I wasn't suggesting we really do *that.*)

 

The idea of caring for the body is completely foreign to me, but very, very good to think about. There are so many things that that concept forces us to question & consider & more deeply offer to God.

 

On the other hand...I don't think I can get past the feeling of judgment & rules. I am open to the possibility that there is some sinful state in my heart that causes me to not like rules or submitting them or the authority they signify. Until I sense that I am being convicted of that, though, I cannot repent or turn away from a sin I simply *might* be committing.

 

I'm not sure what to think, but I appreciate the conversation. Irl, nobody wants to talk about death. ;)

[lionfamily1999]

I don't think I can get past the feeling of judgment & rules. I am open to the possibility that there is some sinful state in my heart that causes me to not like rules or submitting them or the authority they signify. Until I sense that I am being convicted of that, though, I cannot repent or turn away from a sin I simply *might* be committing.

 

I'm not sure what to think, but I appreciate the conversation. Irl, nobody wants to talk about death. ;)

What's strange, is that your concern about judgement and rules comes off (to me) as judgmental. I've felt like those that didn't agree with cremation needed to be defended, because it felt (to me) like their beliefs were being attacked/belittled.

 

I realize now, that it wasn't meant to be that way. You felt judged and I guess your defensiveness came across (to me) as judgment against them.

 

:grouphug:

 

Because now I think I understand.

[Garga]

Really, dh does not want anyone else touching me, I'm pretty sure if he could get away with taking care of everything he would (meaning, moving the body, cleaning it, dressing it &tc). Since that's not possible, he wants to minimize it as much as possible. He leans more towards having no embalming and a quick burial. As little of me floating around with strangers as possible.

 

 

 

It is not illegal for a family member to clean and dress the body. I'm not sure about moving a body--there might be laws about that. And (as you wrote), it's not required that a body be embalmed.

 

There are some rules about burying bodies, but I'm pretty sure that by law, it's even legal for you to bury a body on your property as long as you follow guidelines about things like depth.

 

The funeral industry has us all convinced that only THEY can do ANYthing with the body and that you MUST have a viewing in THIER parlor, the body HAS to be embalmed, and then buried in a vacuum sealed coffin on THEIR plots. And each step of the way costs Lots and Lots of Money.

[Xuzi]

What's strange, is that your concern about judgement and rules comes off (to me) as judgmental. I've felt like those that didn't agree with cremation needed to be defended, because it felt (to me) like their beliefs were being attacked/belittled.

 

I realize now, that it wasn't meant to be that way. You felt judged and I guess your defensiveness came across (to me) as judgment against them.

 

:grouphug:

 

Because now I think I understand.

Something I've been pondering a lot lately, with all the religion talk on these boards lately... I think misunderstandings like this happen fairly often when we're looking at other's traditions that we're not familiar with. What is seen by an "insider" as a natural extention of their beliefs/faith tradition/cultural tradition/whathaveyou, with absolutely no judgement or condemnation implied to those who don't value those same things, can look like "judgement and rules" to someone unfamiliar with the deeper meanings behind the surface explainations of "We do/don't do these things."

 

It's helped me keep a cooler head when listening to others explain their beliefs that might make me feel like they judge me for mine. It's also helped me try to be more clear in explaining what MY beliefs are, so that there's minimal misunderstanding. (of course you can't prevent ALL misunderstanding, but an ounce of prevention and all that... :tongue_smilie: )

[justamouse]

For those who believe that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ, as the Eastern Orthodox (and others) do, our bodies become consecrated "ground" by receiving this sacrament into them. Orthodox cemeteries would be consecrated because they hold the bodies of the faithful. And our churches are holy ground because this is where the Eucharist is consecrated and served; it's literally a place where heaven touches earth. Before we converted, I had never heard of this either, so just thought I'd mention that this is partly where we're coming from in this thread.

 

Ohhhh. That makes sense then.

 

What about donating organs, then?

[Xuzi]

It is not illegal for a family member to clean and dress the body. I'm not sure about moving a body--there might be laws about that. And (as you wrote), it's not required that a body be embalmed.

 

There are some rules about burying bodies, but I'm pretty sure that by law, it's even legal for you to bury a body on your property as long as you follow guidelines about things like depth.

 

The funeral industry has us all convinced that only THEY can do ANYthing with the body and that you MUST have a viewing in THIER parlor, the body HAS to be embalmed, and then buried in a vacuum sealed coffin on THEIR plots. And each step of the way costs Lots and Lots of Money.

At my grandfather's funeral there was even a cement lining to the grave, that went all around the coffin, and had a cement "lid". I didn't see the point then, or now, why that was necessary to bury someone. :confused:

 

I've told DH to put me in a nice -rented- casket for the funeral, then bury me in a pineboard box. It's not like I'm going to notice that I'm not sleeping on a bed of satin. :tongue_smilie:

[Aubrey]

What's strange, is that your concern about judgement and rules comes off (to me) as judgmental. I've felt like those that didn't agree with cremation needed to be defended, because it felt (to me) like their beliefs were being attacked/belittled.

 

I realize now, that it wasn't meant to be that way. You felt judged and I guess your defensiveness came across (to me) as judgment against them.

 

:grouphug:

 

Because now I think I understand.

 

Oh, I'm so sorry. No, I read an article a month or more ago, & it's been eating at me. My primary question was supposed to be if I'd understood it correctly: from what's been said here, I hadn't.

 

Parishioners anointing the body themselves & placing it in a hand-made pine box? Gosh, that's almost exactly how I told dh I thought it should be, way back when we got married.

 

I don't believe in special treatment, so if my treatment of my father's body was sin according to EO, I want a person to be straight with me--that's why I didn't mention that in the OP; I don't want anything sugar-coated. I can't feel badly about it, even if I were to convert, because neither he nor I nor the family had these beliefs at the time. But still...if I were to ever MYSELF come to believe it was not the most respectful choice...that would still be a painful conclusion.

 

Patty Joanna's posts, though, seem to offer another view, that is less about right and wrong but love. That would seem to imply that although an EO person would not make that choice, & perhaps I wouldn't make it again after this conversation, my choice to have dad cremated was made out of love, & therefore is ok. Maybe.

 

Again, though, I'm so sorry I came across judgmental! Thank you for sticking with me despite the offense.

[justamouse]

As far as an ecological issue..... please check out this web site. http://www.glendalenaturepreserve.org/ There is a green way to be buried. A body decomposes much quicker if not embalmed, and untreated wood also decomposes quickly without harm to the environment. Plus it is much less expensive.

 

HA! You just solved that for me. The whole reason I wanted to be cremated wasn't because I *wanted* to be cremated, but because I wanted to not leave this earth with my family paying 30k to put me in the ground. And, I wanted something ecological.

 

So, now I can have it all. Burial on the cheap and green.

[KidsHappen]

May I interrupt your very serious thread to share something that made me laugh out loud during a very difficult time?

 

My mom passed away late in January. She had chosen to be cremated and made all of the arrangements long before she died.

A couple of weeks after her death my younger son, Hunter, and I were visiting my Dad.

Hunter was standing by the desk when he noticed a simple white bag that contained a tall, narrow, rectangular box that was labeled with my mom's name and some other information.

His eyes widened and he asked, "Is that...Nana?"

I told him it was.

He just started at the package for a bit before nodding his head and adding, "Well, she's thin. That would make her happy."

 

:lol:

[TracyR]

Aubrey, that's just nuts. I don't know what else to say. Being burnt to a crisp is not always something one has control over - how could that affect salvation? Besides, salvation is based on what Christ did on your behalf, not on anything you did or did not do. Must you have a response? Are these friends of yours?

 

:iagree:

 

When were raised from the dead our bodies will be perfect. No matter how we died. There are those who were crushed in 9-11, people have been burnt to death , died out at sea and were never recovered etc.

So they don't go to Heaven? Come on.

There is nothing in the Bible that claims this to be wrong and I would really think twice about religions that make up things like that.

[justamouse]

EO funerals are pretty green. Embalming is not encouraged at all. Instead, parishioners prepare and anoint the body. We bury within 3-4 days if at all possible. The coffins are hand-made pine boxes with a lid (a friend of mine makes them for our parish). (Monks also make and sell them.)

 

Most of the expense is the cost of the grave (high property values in Seattle extending even to the grave) and the cost of the STATE required paperwork.

 

The costs of the actual funeral are only about $100 more than the costs of cremation; the $$$ dog won't hunt here. The cost of the grave makes the difference...on the $$$ argument.

 

You know, this is the right that I have felt has been taken from us. The book Radical Homemakers made me think on it. It is (emotionally) hard, but it's a good hard if it's done the right way.

Edited March 9, 2011 by justamouse

[Anne]

Quote: There are some rules about burying bodies, but I'm pretty sure that by law, it's even legal for you to bury a body on your property as long as you follow guidelines about things like depth.

 

 

There are many places where it IS illegal to bury a body on your property, regardless of depth, amount of property, etc.

 

Anne

[Joker]

I've told DH to put me in a nice -rented- casket for the funeral, then bury me in a pineboard box. It's not like I'm going to notice that I'm not sleeping on a bed of satin. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's not so easy to do though when you're the one having to actually make the decisions. I couldn't put my dad and brother in the cheapest possible casket. At the time it feels like you need to do your best by them and you're not thinking much about the future.

 

HA! You just solved that for me. The whole reason I wanted to be cremated wasn't because I *wanted* to be cremated, but because I wanted to not leave this earth with my family paying 30k to put me in the ground.

 

This is me and dh. I don't want my dds to pay so much for a funeral. It seems such a waste. We purchased the best possible casket and grave marker for my dad and brother and I'm sure they would have rather us not. Cremation seems to solve many problems I would be leaving behind.

[Xuzi]

Wait, is family members handling the body not something typically done? For LDS funerals the body is *always* at the very least dressed by family members and/or members of the congregation, unless the family specifically stipulates that they want the funeral home to take care of it. My Dad helped prepare his father's body for burial, as well as his FIL's body. Annointing, dressing, etc. I think my grandma even did my great-grandma's make-up. One of the first things discussed when family gathers after a passing is who will do the preparing and dressing of the body.

 

I didn't realize this wasn't typical.

[Miss Sherry]

:iagree:

 

When were raised from the dead our bodies will be perfect. No matter how we died. There are those who were crushed in 9-11, people have been burnt to death , died out at sea and were never recovered etc.

So they don't go to Heaven? Come on.

There is nothing in the Bible that claims this to be wrong and I would really think twice about religions that make up things like that.

Actually, the church that she thought to believe this way actually does not. She misunderstood the article she read . They do prefer burial over cremation, but they do not teach that you will be eternally condemned if you are cremated. I think you missed some of the other posts with more explanation.

[KidsHappen]

Also, I do NOT want a funeral or a grave. I despise the entire funeral tradition we have and consider most of it a rip off and emotional sabotage. I would rather do almost anything except attend a funeral but I know that's just me and my opinion. :)

 

:iagree: and I feel very strongly about it.

[justamouse]

Wait, is family members handling the body not something typically done? For LDS funerals the body is *always* at the very least dressed by family members and/or members of the congregation, unless the family specifically stipulates that they want the funeral home to take care of it. My Dad helped prepare his father's body for burial, as well as his FIL's body. Annointing, dressing, etc. I think my grandma even did my great-grandma's make-up. One of the first things discussed when family gathers after a passing is who will do the preparing and dressing of the body.

 

I didn't realize this wasn't typical.

 

I have never - ever seen a family given the opportunity to prepare a family member's body for burial. Here (in all the ceremonies I've seen) the body goes from the hosp/home/ wherever to the funeral home. The immediate family members are given a half hour before the funeral services to make any changes (which the professionals will then handle) and that's it. I've been to about 9 so far (friends and family). And the bills are astronomical.

[sewingmama]

It seems that both LDS and EO are trying to sway their members' opinions with some (imo) pretty pertinent Biblical examples. Neither group seems to believe that one MUST be buried, but that it's preferable. Sort of like saying, we prefer you don't paint your hair, because (insert Biblical reference here), all the same it's ultimately up to you.

 

The reason why the LDS church only says it is "preferable" rather then "mandatory" to bury a body rather then cremate it is because we also believe in following the laws of the land -and there are countries where it is the law or the custom to cremate bodies.

 

I know in South Korea there is just no room for burial -most people are cremated. So what would the LDS people in SK do with their dead if their religion said "you MUST be buried" but the laws of their country said " you MUST be cremated"?

 

Ultimately the LDS believe that God made our bodies and that when he comes to resurrect them he will know where all the bits are to remake it :D After all there isn't really much left after a burial either.

 

The point of preferring burial is simply that we believe our bodies are sacred - given to us by God - and that we should not desecrate or destroy them by our own hand of our own choice (in that light things such as tattoos and multiple peircings are also discouraged). People can be cremated if they choose to for whatever reason however it just isn't LDS custom.

 

Whether you are buried/cremated really has no bearing on your salvation so that is why it is only a preference and not doctrine- it's just the customary way we choose or "prefer" to deal with our dead.

Edited March 9, 2011 by sewingmama

[Xuzi]

I have never - ever seen a family given the opportunity to prepare a family member's body for burial. Here (in all the ceremonies I've seen) the body goes from the hosp/home/ wherever to the funeral home. The immediate family members are given a half hour before the funeral services to make any changes (which the professionals will then handle) and that's it. I've been to about 9 so far (friends and family). And the bills are astronomical.

Wow. :( One of the things I *can't* imagine doing, if my DH passes before me, is not being the one to dress him. Of course I won't do it alone, but the idea of handing that task over to strangers... I mean... wow. I honestly had no clue funeral homes wouldn't allow families that right. I guess that's something I'll need to keep in mind, if I'm ever charged with planning a funeral, is asking what their rules are for family members helping prepare the body.

[KidsHappen]

I hope my mom forgives us. Not only did we cremate her but we divided her amoungst the four of us. My 1/4 sits in our living room shelves next to our cat. Two of my brothers also keep mom at home but the brother that is a trucker carries her around with him in the truck. He says that he thinks that mom would have liked to travel the country with him and I am pretty sure he is right.

 

I have told my family that when I pass away, skip the embalming, the funeral and go right to the cremation and then put me in the bookshelf with everyone else. We haven't exactly figured out who gets to inherit the urns though. :001_smile:

[justamouse]

Wow. :( One of the things I *can't* imagine doing, if my DH passes before me, is not being the one to dress him. Of course I won't do it alone, but the idea of handing that task over to strangers... I mean... wow. I honestly had no clue funeral homes wouldn't allow families that right. I guess that's something I'll need to keep in mind, if I'm ever charged with planning a funeral, is asking what their rules are for family members helping prepare the body.

 

I don't think it's a good thing, to have strangers take care of the person you loved, but up until about 2 months ago I never heard of that right belonging to a family. Perhaps years ago...but like I said before-I think something has been taken from us in not having the family do it. Not only the knowledge of how it is done, but the love and care and emotional passage of the family.

[keptwoman]

I don't think it's a good thing, to have strangers take care of the person you loved, but up until about 2 months ago I never heard of that right belonging to a family. Perhaps years ago...but like I said before-I think something has been taken from us in not having the family do it. Not only the knowledge of how it is done, but the love and care and emotional passage of the family.

It's all part of the enormous funeral industry which has changed and emotionally sterlised the practices around death, to enable them to do as much as possible and charge as much as possible for doing that which you are allowed to do yourself. Those who might wish to probably think they are not allowed, and many more would find it "icky" because of the amount of success the funeral/death industry has had in insulating us from the most natural of endings.

[Joker]

It's all part of the enormous funeral industry which has changed and emotionally sterlised the practices around death, to enable them to do as much as possible and charge as much as possible for doing that which you are allowed to do yourself. Those who might wish to probably think they are not allowed, and many more would find it "icky" because of the amount of success the funeral/death industry has had in insulating us from the most natural of endings.

 

:iagree: We had to cause a scene to be *allowed* to see my brother once the morgue released him to the funeral home. They acted like it wasn't acceptable until they had him *presentable*. They tried to dictate how we did everything until we blew. It's truly ridiculous the amount of power they try to claim and then they try to say it's because they care.

[KidsHappen]

Wait, is family members handling the body not something typically done? For LDS funerals the body is *always* at the very least dressed by family members and/or members of the congregation, unless the family specifically stipulates that they want the funeral home to take care of it. My Dad helped prepare his father's body for burial, as well as his FIL's body. Annointing, dressing, etc. I think my grandma even did my great-grandma's make-up. One of the first things discussed when family gathers after a passing is who will do the preparing and dressing of the body.

 

I didn't realize this wasn't typical.

 

 

The hospital would not release my mother to anyone other than a funneral home.

[KidsHappen]

Quote: There are some rules about burying bodies, but I'm pretty sure that by law, it's even legal for you to bury a body on your property as long as you follow guidelines about things like depth.

 

 

There are many places where it IS illegal to bury a body on your property, regardless of depth, amount of property, etc.

 

Anne

 

Yes, there are many laws regarding the handling of a body these days. People have much less leeway than in previous generations.

[sewingmama]

I have never - ever seen a family given the opportunity to prepare a family member's body for burial. Here (in all the ceremonies I've seen) the body goes from the hosp/home/ wherever to the funeral home. The immediate family members are given a half hour before the funeral services to make any changes (which the professionals will then handle) and that's it. I've been to about 9 so far (friends and family). And the bills are astronomical.

 

Having worked in a nursing home I got to get the inside dirt on quite a few funeral homes:D In Australia at least from what I have experienced it is absolutely encouraged that the family dress the body if they wish too. The actual prep and embalming of the body is done by the funeral home but you can do the dressing, make-up, hair etc. You are also allowed to decorate the inside of the coffin however you like. I once saw a coffin that had been "decorated" for an elderly woman by her grandchildren. They had taken all their favourite photographs of themselves and glued them to the inside of the lid for grandma to remember them :001_smile:

 

I'm LDS so I've always just accepted that the family or other church members handle the dressing of the body. My mother helped her best friend dress her mother - there were no restrictions - they could basically dress her as they wanted and they also did her hair and make up. My mother said it was a very special experience - not freaky at all - as my mom's friend sang her mother's favourite hymns as they dressed her and they talked and chatted to her as well.

 

Really the only time a funeral home discourages the family dressing the body is if it is in a distressing condition -and even then the family is still allowed to make the ultimate choice whether they want to or not.

 

The hospital would not release my mother to anyone other than a funneral home.

 

Just wanted to mention that the dressing is done at the funeral home - you can't actually take the body home with you to do it.

[tex-mex]

As far as an ecological issue..... please check out this web site. http://www.glendalenaturepreserve.org/ There is a green way to be buried. A body decomposes much quicker if not embalmed, and untreated wood also decomposes quickly without harm to the environment. Plus it is much less expensive.

Oooh. Hubs and I just saw a method of burial that does not have a coffin -- but like a burlap sack. Your body decomposes quickly in a beautiful nature preserve. The cemetary is without headstones, only small markers. It sounded neat. I did wonder about the water table and how it can be zoned that way without a coffin? Personally, I want to be cremated and my remains scattered over the South Pacific and the Rockies. Hubs doesn't agree with me. But it is in my will and living trust. So there. :tongue_smilie: LOL

[milovany]

Patty Joanna's posts, though, seem to offer another view, that is less about right and wrong but love. That would seem to imply that although an EO person would not make that choice, & perhaps I wouldn't make it again after this conversation, my choice to have dad cremated was made out of love, & therefore is ok. Maybe.

 

 

Aubrey, my grandmother died recently and was cremated, and I've had other relatives who died and were cremated, and my parents plan on being cremated. Even though I, as an Orthodox person could not do this, and wish others that we love would not (because I love them as whole people and not just their spirits/souls), I haven't at all felt like something wrong/sinful was done. As with all the "dirt" in my grandma's life, even as I pray for her still, I ask God to have mercy on her in the final judgment.

[lmkzbcb]

Oooh. Hubs and I just saw a method of burial that does not have a coffin -- but like a burlap sack. Your body decomposes quickly in a beautiful nature preserve. The cemetary is without headstones, only small markers. It sounded neat. I did wonder about the water table and how it can be zoned that way without a coffin?

 

You dont have to worry to much about the water table when it is green, it is all the industrial stuff that is the polutant. Natural decomposing is well, natural. Here is a quote from one of the links below:

"All organisms that have lived, have died and returned to the soil...only to be recycled into new life. Constant microbial activity in the soil breaks everything down. Nature creates no waste. Everything is recycled."

 

btw, even cremation puts out polutants.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_burial

 

http://www.greenburials.org/FAQ.htm

 

http://www.greenburialcouncil.org/faqs-fiction/

Edited March 9, 2011 by lmkzbcb

[Miss Sherry]

Having worked in a nursing home I got to get the inside dirt on quite a few funeral homes:D In Australia at least from what I have experienced it is absolutely encouraged that the family dress the body if they wish too. The actual prep and embalming of the body is done by the funeral home but you can do the dressing, make-up, hair etc. You are also allowed to decorate the inside of the coffin however you like. I once saw a coffin that had been "decorated" for an elderly woman by her grandchildren. They had taken all their favourite photographs of themselves and glued them to the inside of the lid for grandma to remember them :001_smile:

 

I'm LDS so I've always just accepted that the family or other church members handle the dressing of the body. My mother helped her best friend dress her mother - there were no restrictions - they could basically dress her as they wanted and they also did her hair and make up. My mother said it was a very special experience - not freaky at all - as my mom's friend sang her mother's favourite hymns as they dressed her and they talked and chatted to her as well.

 

Really the only time a funeral home discourages the family dressing the body is if it is in a distressing condition -and even then the family is still allowed to make the ultimate choice whether they want to or not.

 

 

 

Just wanted to mention that the dressing is done at the funeral home - you can't actually take the body home with you to do it.

 

About 7 years ago a friend of my daughter died at the age of 19. His mother had the funeral home bring him in his casket to her home until the funeral, after they had him all prepared. Everyone came to view him at her home. This was in Vancouver, WA.

[Spy Car]

Consider also, that Jesus was buried.

 

If I remember my bible stories correctly, Jesus wasn't buried. He was placed in a cave-like tomb that was sealed with a rock. But he wasn't buried under earth, right?

 

Bill

[Peek a Boo]

If I remember my bible stories correctly, Jesus wasn't buried. He was placed in a cave-like tomb that was sealed with a rock. But he wasn't buried under earth, right?

 

Bill

 

for this discussion, "burial" doesn't have to be "under earth" -- just opposite of being cremated. ;) Some preservation of the body...

 

 

============================

for me...

I have yet to find a scriptural verse that points to the HS in our body after our body has died, and can find no DISrespect in the act of cremation [lots of good points about the positive attributes of fire], and no mandating of REspect via a traditional burial [man's wisdom vs God's wisdom], so I'm fine with going on gut instinct or personal convictions [tradition/ stumbling blocks/ personal ideas of sin/etc].

 

If I knew someone's faith recommended burial over cremation, I'd counsel them to stick w/ their faith.

 

I like fire.

The idea of cremation appeals to me.

The idea of being made up and wheeled out for a look-see doesn't sound very appealing or respectful *to me*. :)

[tntgoodwin]

I have been told that Church of Christ is opposed to cremation because they feel that if the body can't be resurrected they will not go to heaven. One told me "If you are cremated, you will burn twice."

 

Is anyone here CoC that can confirm or deny this? Frankly, I don't know the reasoning behind it, or several other CoC practices.

[Spy Car]

for this discussion, "burial" doesn't have to be "under earth" -- just opposite of being cremated. ;) Some preservation of the body...

 

 

Except if the standard is to do what Jesus did (or what was done to Jesus) according to the Christian Bible, then it would not include being "buried."

 

By that standard one would need to be entombed, no?

 

Bill

[tntgoodwin]

Except if the standard is to do what Jesus did (or what was done to Jesus) according to the Christian Bible, then it would not include being "buried."

 

By that standard one would need to be entombed, no?

 

Bill

 

Well, if doing as Jesus did is the standard, who cares where you are located because you will only be there 3 days!

[Peek a Boo]

 

In Gen. 1:26-27, we are told that we are made in the image and likeness of God, (the whole human being). That our bodies were never intended for death is supported by Rom. 5:12 which says death came through sin. Because we were made in the image of God, we should treat the body with the utmost respect and that means even after death (I Cor. 6:19) After all, we are just sleeping (I Cor. 15: 20, 42-44). The fact that the body decays is just a natural process and by-product of death. That death was never intended should further emphasize the importance of respecting the body. Consider also, that Jesus was buried. He certainly could have told His disciples to cremate Him, and think of the magnitude of that kind of miracle. Not only back from the dead, but back from ashes!! But He chose burial; there must be something significant about it.

 

It seems logical to me that the issue is not so much dam*ation if you do cremate or eternal life without a body, but it is for the benefit of those still living. Having your body buried can be one last final witness that you give to those who are living. In essence you are proclaiming (or being a witness) that you believe the Bible: we were made in the image of God, our bodies should not be desecrated, our body was not intended for death, some day the dead in Christ shall rise, believers are just sleeping, and over-all as a follower of Christ you wanted to be like Him while living, in burial, and in resurrection from the dead.

 

 

Q:

not seeing Cor 6:19 as applying to after you are dead? appears to be discussing our actions of breaking a specific command while we are living...

 

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

 

 

I do agree that Jesus' burial was significant -- He had quite a few prophecies to fulfill. ;) I don't think most Christians are buried as He was though....

 

and I guess we'll have to disagree on 'desecration' of a dead body: since a lot of it is about what is personally contemptible, a typical funeral is seen as desecrating a body by quite a few. But that starts getting into "which courtesies will trump: the dead's wishes or the living's desires?"

 

If I knew you wanted a burial, I'd make sure you got one. :)

 

wait... :001_huh: that didn't sound right...... ;)

[Spy Car]

 

I do agree that Jesus' burial was significant

 

I thought we agreed that according to the bible stories he wasn't buried.

 

If I knew you wanted a burial, I'd make sure you got one. :)

 

wait... :001_huh: that didn't sound right...... ;)

 

Sounds more "right" than offering up a match to someone who professes to like fire :D

 

Bill