A ? for Muslims - hopefully not offensive...

[Nan in Mass]

Ok, so it sounds like you think Jews and Muslims think they are worshipping god but that they are really worshipping nobody because their god doesn't really exist and for some reason they can't reach the Christian god? This is confusing.

[idnib]

As a Muslim I agree with the Muslim responses, Bill, and Mrs. Mungo.

 

And no, it's not an offensive question. It's a really good one!

 

:grouphug:

[Mrs Mungo]

Ok, so it sounds like you think Jews and Muslims think they are worshipping god but that they are really worshipping nobody because their god doesn't really exist and for some reason they can't reach the Christian god? This is confusing.

 

Yes. Christians (for the most part, there are some exceptions to this generality) believe that a person can only be redeemed/saved through Jesus Christ and God's grace. You can't follow enough laws, you can't do enough good things, you can't be perfect enough to deserve to be saved.

[Gooblink]

Ok, so it sounds like you think Jews and Muslims think they are worshipping god but that they are really worshipping nobody because their god doesn't really exist and for some reason they can't reach the Christian god? This is confusing.

 

Are you asking me? I don't want to keep butting in if you're addressing someone else. :)

 

I believe Jews and Muslims worship the God of Abraham. I believe Christians worship the God of Abraham. Christians - except for some few - believe that Jesus is God incarnate. That one point could lead some to argue that Jews, Muslims and Christians worship a different God.

 

It's splitting hairs to me, while it's at the crux of faith for others.

 

I'll admit I am not a formally studied theologian, but that's where I sit, right now.

[Nan in Mass]

wow

[Wabi Sabi]

Thank you very much for this thread. It has been educational and interesting on many levels.

 

Oh, lets do that, Remuda! I am sure that we will not get any snark, or flames, or judgment or criticism. This board is so open to and tolerant of the Christian viewpoint.

 

Deletion in 3...2...1...

 

This is sarcasm, right? If not, I apologize in advance for reading the tone wrong.

 

If I'm correct though, I'm confused. As a new member I was under the impression that this board is predominately Christian. Am I under the wrong impression?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thank you very much for this thread. It has been educational and interesting on many levels.

 

 

 

This is sarcasm, right? If not, I apologize in advance for reading the tone wrong.

 

If I'm correct though, I'm confused. As a new member I was under the impression that this board is predominately Christian. Am I under the wrong impression?

 

You are under the wrong impression.

[mom2bee]

I'm confused. As a new member I was under the impression that this board is predominately Christian. Am I under the wrong impression?

 

I thought the same. I've seen some Muslim posters, but I think the majority of the ACTIVE Members on this board, are, indeed, Christian.

[Mrs Mungo]

Thank you very much for this thread. It has been educational and interesting on many levels.

 

 

 

This is sarcasm, right? If not, I apologize in advance for reading the tone wrong.

 

If I'm correct though, I'm confused. As a new member I was under the impression that this board is predominately Christian. Am I under the wrong impression?

 

The board is predominantly Christian.

[Gooblink]

wow

 

What are your thoughts, Nan?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Reading the replies of the Muslim posters, I understand their position to be (in summary) that Christians perverted (I'm using this word as meaning "twisted") the idea of Allah into the God of the NT. Thus He might not technically be a different god, but at least a blasphemous and twisted idea of Allah. I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe. Is this an accurate summary? I'm truly trying to summarize what it looks like your position would be. And for what it's worth, I'm not offended if that is your position.

[~Amanda~]

I have really enjoyed this thread (for the most part) Its always nice to learn something new!

[Remudamom]

I'm not offended by anyone's beliefs either, and think it's hysterical that anyone would give enough crap to be offended by mine, though apparently many are.

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Christians would argue that Muslims and Jews don't truly know (or worship) the God of Abraham b/c they don't know His Son, Jesus.

 

There are certainly historical commonalities, but the Christian would argue that rejecting Jesus as the Son of God is a rejection of the Creator b/c they are 1 in the same. The trinity is more than a detail that divides the Christian from other faiths, it's THE crux (double meaning intended) that defines Christianity.

 

Different beliefs about Jesus = Different god

 

Not exactly. I'm Christian, although some may argue that point lol, and I would not say that Muslims don't worship the same God. I also don't believe that God and Jesus are one in the same. I believe that Jesus is the literal son of God. Two seperate beings, but united in one purpose and part of a "Godhead".

Christianity has many differening beliefs...I wouldn't say that the trinity is the ultimate definition of Christanity.

Also, I can't say which God which religion worships. I think the religion is a deeply personal thing, and I know how I would feel if someone told me that I didn't worship the same God they did. God is God. Whichever religion or church is the most correct, God is still God.

[jenn1129]

i have a question for the Muslims. Why would you call Jesus a great prophet, if really He is nothing but a liar to you. He said He is the Son of God, that He is God, etc. So...I'm confused why a liar is so great to your religion?

 

I've wondered about this forever, but never had the nerve to ask before. :tongue_smilie:

[Hockey Mom]

Reading the replies of the Muslim posters, I understand their position to be (in summary) that Christians perverted (I'm using this word as meaning "twisted") the idea of Allah into the God of the NT. Thus He might not technically be a different god, but at least a blasphemous and twisted idea of Allah. I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe. Is this an accurate summary? I'm truly trying to summarize what it looks like your position would be. And for what it's worth, I'm not offended if that is your position.

 

:confused:

 

It is my understanding that the NT was written 650 years before the Koran. How can the NT be a 'perversion' of Islam if that is the case?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, I am a Muslim, and while I'm not the most learned or studied Muslim you'll find in the world, I've got a very good grasp of the basics. ;) I'm only replying because you asked for a Muslim to respond. I don't wish for this to start some sort of forum-war or get anyone's goat.

 

Okay, my answer...

 

First, understand the term Allah. It's Arabic and means THE God. It comes from the Arabic word illah, which means diety/god, but it has the definite article 'the' built in to mean The God. (Like president vs The President)

 

In Islam, we are worshipping the exact same God that Abraham worshipped. We believe that ALL the prophets, from Adam to Muhammad worshipped the same God, and preached the same message of monotheism along with the standard package of moral behavior...

 

We belive Jesus was NOT the son of God but merely a prophet. We do believe he was born of the Virgin Mary (Or Maryam, if you want the Arabic name) and his conception was brought about by a holy miracle.

 

We wouldn't say Muhammad was influenced by Judeo-Christian beliefs, it was ALWAYS the same message. There have been "Muslims" since Abrahams time because he's the one who coined the term.

 

The prophets always taught the same religion. Always the same call to a pure monotheism away from all assisting, lesser or secondary gods/goddesses, etc. There is no middle man who we turn to to help us reach God. We believe that god, Allah, is all powerful, omnipotent. He needs no help and hears us clearly without an assistant. He has no partners, no equals, only slaves.

 

From the time of Adam the message from God, never changed. The only reason there were so many prophets was because people went astray and as the years passed, people were changing the holy revelations of God.

 

Muhammad himself declared that he was following the god of Ibraham, Musa, Isa (that Abraham, Moses and Jesus in English) and that he was just the LAST prophet. There would be no more prophets after him.

 

I can't say with 100% confidence which god Christians (of any particular branch) are worshipping or what not, so I won't say simply "yes" yeah...I think that answers your question.

 

 

*Think of Islam, as an OS(Operating System) if you will...lets say the religion was constantly being "hacked" or "infected" with a virus to make it do wonky things or change what it's supposed to do. Well, Muhammad (pbuh) was the guy who came with the ultimate fire wall/antivirus combo from God.

 

Muhammad reset the already existing, already well established system, installed the firewall/anti virue combo and since then, the OS has been running constantly since.

 

I was thinking of this post when I made mine about Christianity being a perversion of the true Allah (to a Muslim). I guess, in reading the post again, it would be more that Islam would be considered a correction of the falsehood that crept in with the NT God/ Jesus. Mom2bee, I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying but that's how I read it.

[FO4UR]

It's OK to agree to disagree.:001_smile:

 

Not exactly. I'm Christian, although some may argue that point lol, and I would not say that Muslims don't worship the same God. I also don't believe that God and Jesus are one in the same. I believe that Jesus is the literal son of God. Two seperate beings, but united in one purpose and part of a "Godhead".

Christianity has many differening beliefs...I wouldn't say that the trinity is the ultimate definition of Christanity.

 

But, I would say that you can't define Christianity without defining the trinity...and that a rejection of the trinity is a rejection of God b/c it describes who He is.

 

Also, I can't say which God which religion worships. I think the religion is a deeply personal thing, and I know how I would feel if someone told me that I didn't worship the same God they did. God is God. Whichever religion or church is the most correct, God is still God.

 

 

This is a deeply personal topic, I agree.

 

It's also a topic that one can step back and discuss without feeling offended if one goes into it knowing that others disagree. I'm not personally offended by people thinking the we all worship the same god, I simply disagree and am trying to articulate the difference in belief.

[mom2bee]

Reading the replies of the Muslim posters, I understand their position to be (in summary) that Christians perverted (I'm using this word as meaning "twisted") the idea of Allah into the God of the NT. Thus He might not technically be a different god, but at least a blasphemous and twisted idea of Allah. I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe. Is this an accurate summary? I'm truly trying to summarize what it looks like your position would be. And for what it's worth, I'm not offended if that is your position.

Being just 1 of 1,000,000,000 Muslims around the world, standard disclaimers apply.

 

For what its worth, I'm not any 'denomination' of Muslim. I (try my humanly best) to follow strictly the Quran and its teachings. I also use Hadith, but I rely on the Quran 95% for my faith.

 

Christians perverted...the idea of Allah into the God of the NT

...well, God or Jesus? God is God, Jesus is not God. To me, Allah is not merely an idea...

 

I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe.

I'm not sure wehre you get this idea explicitly...I'm assuming you mean a Muslim who leaves Islam and goes to Christianity. However, in a strictly religious view, without any emotions or biases, If you leave Islam, it doesn't matter where you go; You're guranteed hell. Not cause your mom or your imam says so, cause God says so.

 

The muslim community, (biased, emotional) on the other hand, will have various ideas about whether its better or worse to go to X, Y or Z religion or non-religion, but thats emotional interpretation and has nothing to do with what is written.

[mom2bee]

i have a question for the Muslims. Why would you call Jesus a great prophet, if really He is nothing but a liar to you. He said He is the Son of God, that He is God, etc. So...I'm confused why a liar is so great to your religion?

 

I've wondered about this forever, but never had the nerve to ask before. :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, well. To be frankly honest, we don't belive Jesus ever said that stuff. People attributed it to him later/without his consent/lied on him and people have been being mislead about that ever since. We believe Jesus only taught that he was a messenger/prophet of God and NOT anything more than a human.

[EmmaNZ]

i have a question for the Muslims. Why would you call Jesus a great prophet, if really He is nothing but a liar to you. He said He is the Son of God, that He is God, etc. So...I'm confused why a liar is so great to your religion?

 

I've wondered about this forever, but never had the nerve to ask before. :tongue_smilie:

 

We do not believe that Jesus lied at all. We believe that he was sent with the same message as all the Prophets- to worship the one true God. I do not believe that he ever said he is the son of God, but that others conferred this title upon him.

[Spy Car]

:confused:

 

It is my understanding that the NT was written 650 years before the Koran. How can the NT be a 'perversion' of Islam if that is the case?

 

Easy question. From the Muslim persecutive Islam is a restoration of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham. Muslims believe that God's original revelations were (for lack of a better word) corrupted in the Hebrew and Christian books of the Bible and that the Qur'an is a re-revelation of scripture by God to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel which sets matters right in a fashion that is consistent with his [God's] original revelations to mankind.

 

People from outside the Islamic faith might not accept this, but this is what Muslims believe.

 

Bill

[Gooblink]

I got my answer.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Gooblink

[Osmosis Mom]

We obviously believe what the Quran says about Jesus. Reference fx. Suratul Mariam/Mary http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/19.htm verses 16 onwards.

 

I find it really weird and insular that a poster comes here to feel free to ask a question of how a subgroup views their religion and people feel all defensive and jump in to boss others around and dominate. Gosh, sorry, guys, but this is not the internet 10 years past when people like myself had to hide my ID from others. People like me (subgroups) come to this particular board because we have been welcomed and feel respected here by the owners and thus I refuse to get driven over by a truck when someone asks a question pertaining to my religion. I know for a fact that tons of people over the years have gotten their viewpoints of Islam broadened by posters like myself who stand up for whom we are and what we believe and try our best to answer questions and break down stereotypes and horrible images by hijackers of our faith.

 

Thanks.

 

Nadia

[Osmosis Mom]

Reading the replies of the Muslim posters, I understand their position to be (in summary) that Christians perverted (I'm using this word as meaning "twisted") the idea of Allah into the God of the NT. Thus He might not technically be a different god, but at least a blasphemous and twisted idea of Allah. I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe. Is this an accurate summary? I'm truly trying to summarize what it looks like your position would be. And for what it's worth, I'm not offended if that is your position.

 

Nope, no convert to Islam is judged by any of us living Muslims. Never heard of such a concept. Anyone who comes to Islam is actually considered a RE-vert because we believe we are all born Believers and it is then our parents who (initially) teach us and show us their way. But essentially, we are all asked to be responsible for our selves after teenage-hood.

 

We believe that people who get the true message of Islam and *then* reject it will stand differently to be judged on the Last Day than someone who beleived something or not, but who never got or looked (if capable and aware) for Islam. Does that make sense (I am baby-watching while typing)? Still, I have no business judging anyone as a Muslim.

 

Something to keep in mind is that any Muslim (which in Arabic means believer and the one who submits to God and is another off-set from the word Salam, peace) can go astray at any point in time and end up as a disbeliever. The biggest sin here is having God have any partners (be they a son, mother, work, money...), so Muslims are generally quite humble in their beliefs because we have a lot of teachings from Prophet Muhammad and the Quran describing people who go astray right before dying....Essentially then we are not guaranteed a free ride just because we said the Shahadah.

[Audrey]

We obviously believe what the Quran says about Jesus. Reference fx. Suratul Mariam/Mary http://www.islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/19.htm verses 16 onwards.

 

I find it really weird and insular that a poster comes here to feel free to ask a question of how a subgroup views their religion and people feel all defensive and jump in to boss others around and dominate. Gosh, sorry, guys, but this is not the internet 10 years past when people like myself had to hide my ID from others. People like me (subgroups) come to this particular board because we have been welcomed and feel respected here by the owners and thus I refuse to get driven over by a truck when someone asks a question pertaining to my religion. I know for a fact that tons of people over the years have gotten their viewpoints of Islam broadened by posters like myself who stand up for whom we are and what we believe and try our best to answer questions and break down stereotypes and horrible images by hijackers of our faith.

 

Thanks.

 

Nadia

 

I know I've learned a LOT from you, Nadia, not just about your faith, but about your region of the world, too. (You did used to be overseas, right? I'm not confusing you with someone else?)

 

Ignoring the posts by the usual suspects, this has been a very interesting and edifying thread to read.

[LittleIzumi]

Nope, no convert to Islam is judged by any of us living Muslims. Never heard of such a concept.

 

I think people are wondering today because of http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247220

[lionfamily1999]

I would assume this is why a convert to Christianity is often (I don't know if I can legitimately say always) considered worse than someone who simply doesn't believe.

I'm not sure wehre you get this idea explicitly...I'm assuming you mean a Muslim who leaves Islam and goes to Christianity. However, in a strictly religious view, without any emotions or biases, If you leave Islam, it doesn't matter where you go; You're guranteed hell. Not cause your mom or your imam says so, cause God says so.

 

The muslim community, (biased, emotional) on the other hand, will have various ideas about whether its better or worse to go to X, Y or Z religion or non-religion, but thats emotional interpretation and has nothing to do with what is written.

I just thought this was worth reposting.

[Osmosis Mom]

Well, I did write convert TO Islam, not about someone leaving Islam!!!!

 

We do have something called Sharia which would be effective if all its rules were met (not partially or selectively). I "think" the country closest to Sharia (legal Islam) would be Malaysia. I think Afghanistan is pretty far off (and was especially with the T. there) in which case it seems hypocritical to selectively follow some rules. But perhaps they want to instill fear in people who are feeling more warmth from their non-Muslim visitors there? I have no clue, but I do know that Afghanistan has a lot of repression and unjustness.

 

I obviously believe the Sharia is the answer to our worldly problems, *if* everyone involved on the governmental level etc. are following Islam.....BTW, historically speaking, then Prophet Muhammad did not punish his defectors, but gave them leeway which was his option.

[PineFarmMom]

I think people are wondering today because of http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247220

 

 

Yes, I still don't feel really clear after that!! And then the thread got locked before it had even begun... Odd, isn't it? :glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Easy question. From the Muslim persecutive Islam is a restoration of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham. Muslims believe that God's original revelations were (for lack of a better word) corrupted in the Hebrew and Christian books of the Bible and that the Qur'an is a re-revelation of scripture by God to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel which sets matters right in a fashion that is consistent with his [God's] original revelations to mankind.

 

People from outside the Islamic faith might not accept this, but this is what Muslims believe.

 

Bill

 

But see, my question would be "Would a perversion of something (something important like who God is) be considered the same as that Muslim re-revelation"?

Edited February 22, 2011 by Jean in Newcastle

[Jean in Newcastle]

Nope, no convert to Islam is judged by any of us living Muslims. Never heard of such a concept. Anyone who comes to Islam is actually considered a RE-vert because we believe we are all born Believers and it is then our parents who (initially) teach us and show us their way. But essentially, we are all asked to be responsible for our selves after teenage-hood.

 

We believe that people who get the true message of Islam and *then* reject it will stand differently to be judged on the Last Day than someone who beleived something or not, but who never got or looked (if capable and aware) for Islam. Does that make sense (I am baby-watching while typing)? Still, I have no business judging anyone as a Muslim.

 

Something to keep in mind is that any Muslim (which in Arabic means believer and the one who submits to God and is another off-set from the word Salam, peace) can go astray at any point in time and end up as a disbeliever. The biggest sin here is having God have any partners (be they a son, mother, work, money...), so Muslims are generally quite humble in their beliefs because we have a lot of teachings from Prophet Muhammad and the Quran describing people who go astray right before dying....Essentially then we are not guaranteed a free ride just because we said the Shahadah.

 

Actually, Nadia, I was asking about how Muslims would view a convert from Islam to Christianity, not a convert from Christianity (or anything else) to Islam. You do say that they would be judged differently than someone who hadn't been Muslim at one time.

[FaithManor]

Texas T, the thread got locked! I didn't know. Was it because the discussion became heated or because the moderators felt their was potential for grave offense, or because it got political? I'm lost because I didn't check back. It began as a pray for...did it get hyjacked into something else?

 

Faith - not looking to get this thread shut down, but wondering what could have possibly happened to the other thread and also concerned that the very enlightening thread still going might be in danger of the same.

[lionfamily1999]

Well, I did write convert TO Islam, not about someone leaving Islam!!!!

 

We do have something called Sharia which would be effective if all its rules were met (not partially or selectively). I "think" the country closest to Sharia (legal Islam) would be Malaysia. I think Afghanistan is pretty far off (and was especially with the T. there) in which case it seems hypocritical to selectively follow some rules. But perhaps they want to instill fear in people who are feeling more warmth from their non-Muslim visitors there? I have no clue, but I do know that Afghanistan has a lot of repression and unjustness.

 

I obviously believe the Sharia is the answer to our worldly problems, *if* everyone involved on the governmental level etc. are following Islam.....BTW, historically speaking, then Prophet Muhammad did not punish his defectors, but gave them leeway which was his option.

What would Sharia do with a convert from Islam?

Actually, Nadia, I was asking about how Muslims would view a convert from Islam to Christianity, not a convert from Christianity (or anything else) to Islam. You do say that they would be judged differently than someone who hadn't been Muslim at one time.

I thought you missed her answer (see above).

[Spy Car]

BTW, the word "Allah" in Arabic is unconjugatable in contrast to the word "illah" which means god/deity.

 

Nadia, can you confirm I have this straight in my mind as I think others are likely unsure of the usage of "Allah" in the Arabic.

 

The first part of the Shahada (the Muslim declaration of faith) says:

 

لا إله إلا الله

 

Which (roughly) transliterated is:

 

la illaha illa Allah

 

Which (roughly) translates as [there is] no god but [the one true] God.

 

But "Allah" here is NOT used here (or anywhere else) as the personal name of God, na'am? There is just a different word for god than there is for "God" in Arabic.

 

Just as the 99 "names" of God in Islam are "attributes" of God, examples including ar-Rahman (the Beneficent) or ar-Rahim (the Merciful), but are not the personal name of God in the same way Allah is not the NAME of God any more (or less) than God is the name of God in English.

 

Do I have that correctly?

 

Bill

Edited February 22, 2011 by Spy Car

[Slartibartfast]

Christians would argue that Muslims and Jews don't truly know (or worship) the God of Abraham b/c they don't know His Son, Jesus.

 

There are certainly historical commonalities, but the Christian would argue that rejecting Jesus as the Son of God is a rejection of the Creator b/c they are 1 in the same. The trinity is more than a detail that divides the Christian from other faiths, it's THE crux (double meaning intended) that defines Christianity.

 

Different beliefs about Jesus = Different god

 

Totally wrong.

Every Christian I know believes that Jews "worship" the same God.

 

Blessingmom is correct, some Christians do not believe God the Creater and God the Father are one and the same.

[Spy Car]

But see, my question would be "Would a perversion of something (something important like who God is) be considered the same as that Muslim re-revelation"?

 

I'm sorry but I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase?

 

Bill

[yellowperch]

Interesting thread. But I have to ask: God the Creator and God the Father are not one? In what branch of what tradition?

[Slartibartfast]

Interesting thread. But I have to ask: God the Creator and God the Father are not one? In what branch of what tradition?

 

Gnostics believe that.

[KnitWit]

I want to thank the Muslim ladies who have been so gracious to answer questions here without getting defensive in light of earlier replies. Thank you for helping us learn.

[mom2bee]

What would Sharia do with a convert from Islam?

 

 

By all rights, if a Muslim, living in a Muslim country/Muslim law, converted FROM Islam, to any other religion, I think that the only thing you can do is require that they pay the Jiziat,* but according to Shariah, no Muslim has the right to do anything. In the Quran it is written that there is to be no compulsion in Religion and that Allah is the Judge of all and will deal with his slaves as he see's fit.

 

(*a tax that the Shariah allows to be collected from Non-Muslims in a Muslim state. In historical times, Shariah was often the most fair legal system around in certain areas, but since it (Shariah) was for Muslims if the Jiziat is paid by Non-Muslims to participate and benefit fully from the system.)

 

What a lot of hypocritical, lying, tyranical, extremist, radical bullies would do (and actually do) with a convert FROM Islam to something else? I couldn't say, but history shows us that tyranny and cruelty aren't exclusive to any one religion, race or creed.

[oldskool]

i have a question for the Muslims. Why would you call Jesus a great prophet, if really He is nothing but a liar to you. He said He is the Son of God, that He is God, etc. So...I'm confused why a liar is so great to your religion?

 

I've wondered about this forever, but never had the nerve to ask before. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

As a Muslim....

He is not a liar, but instead is highly revered as all the prophets are. It pains me horribly to even see the name of Jesus, may peace be upon him, and the name liar put into the same sentence. To us, there is no proof of, nor did Jesus ever state that he was the son of God and therefore never lied about anything. We feel that this concept arose after his existence here on Earth. (We also don't believe that he died on the cross, but instead rose to heaven, and will come again).

 

I really was avoiding jumping in because of the way this thread is headed. This is disappointing because a few months back when other posters of various faiths took the time to explain their religion, I don't remember others taking it as an opportunity to explain why it is the wrong belief.

 

As far as why people in Afghanistan are doing bad things to converts to Christianity? I wish it could be recognized that Afghanistan offers a very uninformed view of Islam that comes out in wrong ways. I am tired as a Muslim to be asked to explain what some other group is doing. Are their not different interpretations or beliefs within Christianity? Would one group be asked to explain the actions of another? It also seems that some Christians have a very forgetful memory of some of the things that Christians have done and continue to do for the love and protection of their own faith. Should we start pointing out those stories because I can come up with plenty.

 

Thank you Bill for stating the beliefs without attaching a judgment to them.

 

Lesley

[Truscifi]

I am neither Christian nor Muslim, but this thread is fascinating. I have learned new things about both faiths from the replies. I hope everyone is able to continue the discussion in a civilized manner. :)

[Melissa in Australia]

history shows us that tyranny and cruelty aren't exclusive to any one religion, race or creed.

:iagree: and I wish I could give you rep.

[Slartibartfast]

I want to thank the Muslim ladies who have been so gracious to answer questions here without getting defensive in light of earlier replies. Thank you for helping us learn.

 

:iagree:

 

Thank you!

[yellowperch]

:iagree:

[Spy Car]

 

Thank you Bill for stating the beliefs without attaching a judgment to them.

 

 

Leslie, I hope you (or other Muslims) don't mind my attempts to explain (to the best of my ability) the basics of Islamic thinking. I get the feeling it can't be easy for y'all not to feel on the defensive when these topics come up.

 

Peace,

 

Bill

[lionfamily1999]

By all rights, if a Muslim, living in a Muslim country/Muslim law, converted FROM Islam, to any other religion, I think that the only thing you can do is require that they pay the Jiziat,* but according to Shariah, no Muslim has the right to do anything. In the Quran it is written that there is to be no compulsion in Religion and that Allah is the Judge of all and will deal with his slaves as he see's fit.

 

(*a tax that the Shariah allows to be collected from Non-Muslims in a Muslim state. In historical times, Shariah was often the most fair legal system around in certain areas, but since it (Shariah) was for Muslims if the Jiziat is paid by Non-Muslims to participate and benefit fully from the system.)

 

What a lot of hypocritical, lying, tyranical, extremist, radical bullies would do (and actually do) with a convert FROM Islam to something else? I couldn't say, but history shows us that tyranny and cruelty aren't exclusive to any one religion, race or creed.

I don't understand the bolded. Do you mean they don't have a right to convert, or to tax?

 

I totally agree with your last paragraph. As a Christian, I COMPLETELY understand what you mean.

 

As a Muslim....

He is not a liar, but instead is highly revered as all the prophets are. It pains me horribly to even see the name of Jesus, may peace be upon him, and the name liar put into the same sentence. To us, there is no proof of, nor did Jesus ever state that he was the son of God and therefore never lied about anything. We feel that this concept arose after his existence here on Earth. (We also don't believe that he died on the cross, but instead rose to heaven, and will come again).

 

I really was avoiding jumping in because of the way this thread is headed. This is disappointing because a few months back when other posters of various faiths took the time to explain their religion, I don't remember others taking it as an opportunity to explain why it is the wrong belief.

 

As far as why people in Afghanistan are doing bad things to converts to Christianity? I wish it could be recognized that Afghanistan offers a very uninformed view of Islam that comes out in wrong ways. I am tired as a Muslim to be asked to explain what some other group is doing. Are their not different interpretations or beliefs within Christianity? Would one group be asked to explain the actions of another? It also seems that some Christians have a very forgetful memory of some of the things that Christians have done and continue to do for the love and protection of their own faith. Should we start pointing out those stories because I can come up with plenty.

 

Thank you Bill for stating the beliefs without attaching a judgment to them.

 

Lesley

If you did, Lesley, you'd be one among many. Those get pointed out all.the.time. My question, regarding Sharia, was because I don't know what the Sharia says at all and I assumed that Sharia law was what was being practiced, because that's what they claim to practice. I appreciated having it cleared up.

 

Ime, if people dislike your religion they're going to keep dragging out the same dead horses and continue beating them mercilessly. Sometimes, though, you come upon someone that is beating that horse and they have no idea it's been dead for ages. When you tell them it's dead, they're shocked. When you tell them why, they understand and take it to heart. So, you can either ignore the dead horse beaters or answer them in the hopes that one or two of the newer ones will realize they're beating a dead horse and move on.

 

This from a Christian ;)

[Osmosis Mom]

Nadia, can you confirm I have this straight in my mind as I think others are likely unsure of the usage of "Allah" in the Arabic.

 

The first part of the Shahada (the Muslim declaration of faith) says:

 

لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

 

Which (roughly) transliterated is:

 

la illaha illa Allah

 

Which (roughly) translates as [there is] no god but [the one true] God.

 

But "Allah" here is NOT used here (or anywhere else) as the personal name of God, na'am? There is just a different word for god than there is for "God" in Arabic.

 

Just as the 99 "names" of God in Islam are "attributes" of God, examples including ar-Rahman (the Beneficent) or ar-Rahim (the Merciful), but are not the personal name of God in the same way Allah is not the NAME of God any more (or less) than God is the name of God in English.

 

Do I have that correctly?

 

Bill

 

Actually, Bill, that is not correct which is what I tried to explain before. "Allah" is unique to the concept of Oneness in Islam (or in religion if you talk about GOD in Arabic). Il-lah means deity/god as in gods/goddesses and is conjugatable.

 

The 99 names of Allah are attributes, yes, but also names we call our Lord (Rabbana) and most are exclusive to Allah.

[Mrs Mungo]

history shows us that tyranny and cruelty aren't exclusive to any one religion, race or creed.

 

:iagree: and, ultimately, that's why posts were deleted and the thread was locked.