In2why Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 It seems like everyone is talking about her. Your friends witness her behavior and tell you, but did any of them say to her, 'Hey, did you realize you just pushed this child?" People are telling you that she is nuts, etc. On one hand, it seems like really icky gossipy bad mouthing. Stuff that shouldn't be happening in a church. On the other hand, is seems like you are maybe in a community (church, hs) dealing with a very difficult personality and trying to cope with it. I think it needs to start to be addressed. Your daughter needs to hear how you think she should handle it. People who witness problems need to address them rationally and calmly. I know you are probably joking, but you make a lot of "tear her eyes out" type jokes. Just make sure that if you choose to address her directly, you are calm and generous hearted. I sometimes think that the most upset person should NOT be the one to address it. I might think talking to someone in leadership in the group or at church is a good idea. But at some point, people need to stop talking about this woman in a "can you believe how awful" kind of way and need to either (1) talk to her or (2) talk to someone in authority who honors confidentiality and/or (3) pray really earnestly. This was my reaction as well. The whole idea of getting a group together to confront her seems like bullying as well. Yet I also think that you should trust your instincts as well. A confrontation doesn't have to be loud or violent. Instead of letting things build up until you are ready to slash her tires, based on hearsay, perhaps you should calmly find time when it is the two of you and tell her that you are upset/bothered that she ran into your daughter and you want to address it instead of letting it fester and cause hard feelings. Even if she denies it, who cares,(although it is possible that since she is socially out of step with most people that she was so intense about something that she didn't even see or think about your daughter at the time) By letting her know that it bothers you hopefully she will understand and get it, but if not, then you have set the stage for any further problems and can address them as they come up. If she yells at your child, if you are there you immediately ask if you can have a word, and then tell her that you do not want her yelling at your children and do not believe that it is appropriate to yell at anyone's children. If you aren't there, then as soon as you hear about it, you do the same thing. If you feel yourself getting upset by her denials then you could practice "broken record", which works so well with teens, by repeating yourself and no matter what she says you say "I do not want you to correct my children". If she gets loud or out of control the perfect response to that is "I am not having this conversation with you" and walking away. But no matter how you decide to handle it, I hope that she stops bullying your child, and that the women in your group stop engaging in high school drama by gossiping about this woman and put their big girl panties on and deal with the problems and not the person. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm glad your pastor is involved. Hopefully, he'll take this seriously. I hope everything works out . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I hope your pastor takes things seriously, too. I was on your DD's end of things when I was a teen (ironically, also at a Lutheran church, though I'm sure that's mere coincidence and has nothing to do with the faith). The youth leader was the bully involved. My mother attempted to go to the pastor at one point, who asked us to come in and talk to him, at which time he promptly took the youth leader's side. It's one of the many reasons I can't handle walking into a church today. I hope that you're able to get your daughter away from this crazy woman, I hope that the members of the church who already know how she is will stand up to her as well, and I hope that the resolution is peaceful in the end. I definitely think you're doing the right thing in going to bat for your daughter, and I'm sure she'll thank you for it later, if she hasn't already. I'd still put the flaming bag of poop on her doorstep for good measure, though. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I only got through page three, I am going to finish reading tomorrow. I was abused when I was in college. It was a guy who was older and more senior in the group (we were on programming board together) My Dad told me that I had to tell people. Being quiet keeps the abuser hidden in the shadows, talking about it puts them in the middle of the street with the lights on. It was uncomfortable, a few people didn't believe me, but it was the right thing to do. Two other girls felt sorry for the guy as everyone was being mean to me, 6 months later one of them came to me and apologized as he had started doing th same thing to her. Your dd is 10 now, when she is 20 and off at college, how do you want her to deal with a situation like this. Be quiet and hope it changes, or to stand up for herself? Talk about it, tell people. Yes it might get uncomfortable for awhile, maybe some people won't believe you, but she is probably doing this to other kids to, and it needs to stop. Good Luck Nicole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxanne23 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) . Edited January 4, 2023 by roxanne23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 She will have been caught, and SHE will know that she can't mess with your DD anymore. Again, this is reasonable person behavior. To a paranoid pers. person, she is not messing with the DD, the DD is messing with her by MERELY being in her radar. For all we know, the woman goes home nightly full of righteous indignation and just shocked at the RESTRAINT she has to display in dealing with all these troubled people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Again, this is reasonable person behavior. To a paranoid pers. person, she is not messing with the DD, the DD is messing with her by MERELY being in her radar. For all we know, the woman goes home nightly full of righteous indignation and just shocked at the RESTRAINT she has to display in dealing with all these troubled people. This is why I felt that she should not be confronted. Her behavior does not sound like that of a reasonable person and could escalate if confronted, imo. On the other hand, going to the pastor is reasonable because he needs to know what is going on since she's in a position of leadership over children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Oh, she doesn't need church. She's the best Lutheran EVER!!!:001_rolleyes: :ack2: Other women at church know how she is. The mom I mentioned that confronted her before attends our church, though she isn't a homeschooler. Crazy lady and I are the only homeschoolers at our church. She would never leave the church. She would try to convince people I should. Luckily most people know she's nuts. Hmmm... sounds like a parent I once had as a parent of a student back when I taught elementary grades. You know, EVERYONE knows about her. You're not the only one. Believe it or not, she will get her due reward. Folks will turn on her or stand up to her -- or say goodbye to her when she flies off on her broomstick. Pushing your child is an issue. But it will go into a he-said/she-said and go nowhere. You either need to catch her in something else or go over her head and complain at church. I highly doubt it would solve the problem. Folks like that never change their spots and are usually off their rocker. Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 This is where I get dh to step in. :lol: He is an imposing figure when it comes to his kids. He'd be very politically correct stating, it's been brought to his attention, by a few trusted family friends, that her 'dealings' have become inappropriate bordering verbal and physical abuse, whether these allegations are false or not, let it be known that we will not allow it to progress or continue. These 'dealings' with HIS daughter end here and now, and she should be sure nothing she does can be misinterpreted. She is not to yell, scold or otherwise 'correct' his child, that if she is having a problem with HIS daughter, it's to be brought to HIS attention of that of her mother. Yeah! Sounds good to me. I would have your dh word it exactly like this too! Sounds very good to me. However, you and dh need to be prepared to follow up should she think it all right to ignore the warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lailasmum Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Surely there should be an official route you can go down, isn't there someone you can report child protection concerns to? Like an established route to go down if there are issues. It is abuse, mental and physical. She shouldn't be in her job. Its handy that you have plenty of witnesses. Could you get a list together of all the incidents and who witnessed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would be upset at the woman who saw this happen at the pottery shop and did nothing immediately. Had I seen an adult treat a child like that I would have made an exclamation and facilitated accountability by calling the parent over and (calmly as possible) expressing my distress at what I saw. For me, a big issue here is not allowing the child to accept being bullied by an adult. And showing the child by example that it is not acceptable. I would also not participate in any activities where the bully was present. Maybe your pastor getting involved will be a blessing for her and she can get counseling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Likewise. One of the biggest problems in the Christian church today is that too few churches take biblical church discipline seriously. They just don't do it because they're too worried about upsetting someone's apple cart and all the icky feelings that get brought into the open. Meanwhile, people like this angry lady get to represent Christ to others, year after year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'd talk to a pastor/children's leader about the issue if talking to the woman gets you nowhere. That's one thing they are there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommy4ever Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Really? You ask your dh to intimidate other women for you? I don't understand why you wouldn't just use the above script (which is very good) and deal with the problem yourself. I'm 5 foot 2, sound like I'm 13, I'm always asked if my mom or dad is home. It's hard to be taken seriously. Since there have been previous issues here, it's time for some one else to step in. Dad is the next step Since she is dealing inappropriately with his daughter, what difference does it make? Can't he stand up for his child? I've dealt with women like this and they have gotten physical with me. So dh, is very calm and just talks to them. We are both the parents of our kids. If I can't get through, he tries. I don't send him in to intimidate, he comes in to co-parent. There's a difference...HUGE difference. He gets their attention, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 No, you can't fix crazy, but there are lots of other options. Bwhaaahaahaa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just spoke with my pastor. I wanted him to at least be aware of the situation before I spoke with this "woman". He thought it would be best if I spoke with her alone, in a more questioning tone, before getting others involved. Tonight both of our kids have confirmation, so I will likely take her aside and discuss the issue/lay down the law. I'm trying to be Jesus-y about this. I'm trying to suppress the urge to kick her, because I'm sure that is not what Jesus would do. I will keep everyone updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm 5 foot 2, sound like I'm 13, I'm always asked if my mom or dad is home. It's hard to be taken seriously. Since there have been previous issues here, it's time for some one else to step in. Dad is the next step I guess I just don't understand. I'm 5'2-1/2, and I have never had a problem being taken seriously. We all do what we have to do to get the job done I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2absh Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 You will not be a helicopter parent if you don't leave your dd alone with this woman. You will be protecting your dd - she's 10, and she doesn't have the skills to defend herself from this kind of abuse - she doesn't even recognize that it IS abuse! It puzzles her, and sometimes her feelings are hurt, but she doesn't see it the way adults would. That's OK - she's 10. It sucks that you have to start teaching her how to recognize these behaviors at this age, but you need to do it. I think she doesn't tell you about things because she doesn't realize what they mean, so she's not doing what she can to protect herself. This woman has proven to be unpredictable, and I don't think you are going to change that by having a discussion with her, whether your pastor is there or not. She's not rational, and rational solutions won't work with her. I think you have to make action plans with your dd. Talk to her about actions SHE can take to protect herself, such as naming the moms you consider "safe" that your dd could approach if she needs support. Your dd would not have to tattle to those moms - she could just be with them. It sounds like Mrs. X. won't do things when your dd is with other adults. Also, work out words dd can use in her own defense - she needs to know she has stuck up for herself. Even if all she says is "Why did you push me, Mrs. X?" or "I'm telling my mom you yelled at me." She should say them for herself, not because they will have an effect on Mrs. X. And you may need to give her permission to speak up for herself - she may not realize that she's "allowed" to speak like that to an adult. Your dd is innocent of provoking Mrs. X, and she's innocent in her knowledge of life. It's horrible that she needs to learn to protect herself at her age, but she needs to. When she's older and more aware of what these things mean, you want her to know that the two of you did what you could to help her. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just spoke with my pastor. I wanted him to at least be aware of the situation before I spoke with this "woman". He thought it would be best if I spoke with her alone, in a more questioning tone, before getting others involved. Tonight both of our kids have confirmation, so I will likely take her aside and discuss the issue/lay down the law. I'm trying to be Jesus-y about this. I'm trying to suppress the urge to kick her, because I'm sure that is not what Jesus would do. I will keep everyone updated. I know you will do great! Try to remember that her actions and reactions are not the point during the conversation. Your goal is to make her aware that you do not like how she is treating your daughter. There are really good ways to do that. Her reaction will either be....to deny totally, or to minimize. If she denies totally then you look her right in the eye and state slowly and calmy, "I believe my daughter, and to make everyone feel better, I do not want you to have any contact with her directly." If she continues to deny, then you state it again, but preface it with I understand you feel that way, but I believe my daughter......." Repeat it until she finally says okay, walks away, or you feel yourself getting upset and need to walk away yourself. Or something that feels more like you in your own words. If she tries to minimize then you say the same thing, but might want to give her some wiggle room by saying that you understand she feels that way, But.....I believe my daughter and...... The most important thing is that you can't change this woman, especially if she is crazy. But you can change yourself and protect your daughter. That is the goal, not making her find the truth, not making her feel small, not being the 'winner', but to make it clear that you and your family do not like her actions toward your daughter and want it to stop. I also caution you to remember that the emotions you feel afterwards are going to make you want to blow off steam with the other women, and gossip or report your version of how it went. I hope you don't, because then it will become a case of you against her and possibly become as much about your actions as her. Don't give her the ammunition. Gosh I am giving you a lot of advice and opinion....but you said that you weren't comfortable with confrontations, and I was that way when I was much younger, and had to learn how to deal with conflicts....it isnt' easy, but it is important. Know matter what you decide and do, hugs to you and your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm trying to be Jesus-y about this. I'm trying to suppress the urge to kick her, because I'm sure that is not what Jesus would do. Jesus loved the little children, so I doubt he would hold it against you. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm 5 foot 2, sound like I'm 13, I'm always asked if my mom or dad is home. It's hard to be taken seriously. Since there have been previous issues here, it's time for some one else to step in. Dad is the next step Since she is dealing inappropriately with his daughter, what difference does it make? Can't he stand up for his child? I've dealt with women like this and they have gotten physical with me. So dh, is very calm and just talks to them. We are both the parents of our kids. If I can't get through, he tries. I don't send him in to intimidate, he comes in to co-parent. There's a difference...HUGE difference. He gets their attention, But the Mom had never tried to directly deal with the woman before, I support co-parenting, but since she is the homeschool mom and the one that comes into contact with the woman, I can't see Dad getting into it and taking things to a whole new level. Seriously if a man, even another father, confronts her, wouldn't that mean her husband would need to tell the other man not to speak to his wife, but to speak to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just spoke with my pastor. I wanted him to at least be aware of the situation before I spoke with this "woman". He thought it would be best if I spoke with her alone, in a more questioning tone, before getting others involved. Tonight both of our kids have confirmation, so I will likely take her aside and discuss the issue/lay down the law. I'm trying to be Jesus-y about this. I'm trying to suppress the urge to kick her, because I'm sure that is not what Jesus would do. I will keep everyone updated. Please let us know how it goes! We are all learning vicariously thru you ;). That said (and I'm sure you already are) don't be surprised when she acts surprised or confused or even apologetic. It "may" be genuine, but I would still let her know that I would be watching and I would like some sort of apology to dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Jesus loved the little children, so I doubt he would hold it against you. ;) :001_smile: I don't think I'd resort to kicking (or pushing like she does), but Jesus was no push-over when it came to the lengths He went to in order to protect His sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well, maybe a burning bag of poo isn't such a bad idea. :D :D I must have had a sheltered childhood; the first time I heard about this as an adult from a neighbor I almost collapsed from laughing--but only after he explained what happens when the unhappy victim puts out the fire. He was astounded that I'd never heard of the trick. But, a woman like this would tempt a saint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well, I didn't catch her alone tonight, though I did see her leaving as I was driving up to church. When I saw her I thought I was going to have a panic attack. Before we left, my dd was feeling nervous. I talked to her about the situation, telling her it was not her fault at all. When adults bully kids, the momma has to step in to protect her kids. Poor dd asked me "Do you think she will start doing this to my little sister?" My heart broke and the momma bear came out. I will see Mrs. X tomorrow at hs PE. I will definitely take her aside and talk to her there. That way, people will be around if I have to be restrained. (Just kidding, kinda) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Well, I didn't catch her alone tonight, though I did see her leaving as I was driving up to church. When I saw her I thought I was going to have a panic attack. Before we left, my dd was feeling nervous. I talked to her about the situation, telling her it was not her fault at all. When adults bully kids, the momma has to step in to protect her kids. Poor dd asked me "Do you think she will start doing this to my little sister?" My heart broke and the momma bear came out. I will see Mrs. X tomorrow at hs PE. I will definitely take her aside and talk to her there. That way, people will be around if I have to be restrained. (Just kidding, kinda) Aw, my heart breaks for your daughter. Good for you; I haven't read all the replies, but I think you're doing the right thing. Best wishes tomorrow. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 So I talked to Mrs. X today. I was pretty calm about it and just casually brought up the incident. Of course she denied it, passing it off as an accident. I explained to her that my dd felt picked on by her because of this incident and others. Mrs. X had no idea what I was talking about:rolleyes:, even though I told her I witnessed it, other moms witnessed it, and my dd felt it. I just kept on explaining that if she had any sort of problem with my kids, she had to speak to me, and me only, about it. She said she would do that, though she really couldn't understand why my dd felt as though she was being bullied. After our PE class, Mrs X. came up to me and said after she "accidently" ran into my dd, she "jokingly" told my dd not to run into her anymore. Of course, this was the 3rd or 4th variation of the incident, so I just restated the fact that she was to speak to me, not my kids. I'm not very hopeful that her behavior will change, but I have enlisted the help of other moms. We will all be monitoring the situation, as other moms have experienced similar incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 So I talked to Mrs. X today. I was pretty calm about it and just casually brought up the incident. Of course she denied it, passing it off as an accident. I explained to her that my dd felt picked on by her because of this incident and others. Mrs. X had no idea what I was talking about:rolleyes:, even though I told her I witnessed it, other moms witnessed it, and my dd felt it. I just kept on explaining that if she had any sort of problem with my kids, she had to speak to me, and me only, about it. She said she would do that, though she really couldn't understand why my dd felt as though she was being bullied. After our PE class, Mrs X. came up to me and said after she "accidently" ran into my dd, she "jokingly" told my dd not to run into her anymore. Of course, this was the 3rd or 4th variation of the incident, so I just restated the fact that she was to speak to me, not my kids. I'm not very hopeful that her behavior will change, but I have enlisted the help of other moms. We will all be monitoring the situation, as other moms have experienced similar incidents. I'm glad that you and other moms will be monitoring the situation. This is passive - aggressive behavior and the aggressive part of that could increase in response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I hope the situation with this lady can be resolved. I've been praying for you and your DD. Please keep us updated. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I really hope it helps. :grouphug: I am not surprised she denied everything! :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 After our PE class, Mrs X. came up to me and said after she "accidently" ran into my dd, she "jokingly" told my dd not to run into her anymore. Of course, this was the 3rd or 4th variation of the incident... So did that happen today, and she said that to your dd? (In which case she's now placing blame on someone else.) Or she's now saying that about the previous incident? (which shows she lied about not knowing what you're talking about). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 So did that happen today, and she said that to your dd? (In which case she's now placing blame on someone else.) Or she's now saying that about the previous incident? (which shows she lied about not knowing what you're talking about). The previous incident. I just kept telling myself that I can't fix crazy, but I can make darn sure crazy knows I'm watching her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The previous incident. I just kept telling myself that I can't fix crazy, but I can make darn sure crazy knows I'm watching her. Exactly. You handled it beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.