Sonshine Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I arrange the schedule for a team that my husband also coaches. We had an opportunity to play in a tournament, and we offered another dad the chance to coach it. When first emailing and asking who was available, one mom volunteered her two kids first. The coach wanted bigger/older kids than hers because it turned out the teams we were facing were bigger. I emailed and let her know we didn't need her kids after all, and gave the above reason. Also, the team got turned into a team with the younger players from the next division up and the bigger players from our division, plus younger siblings (it's understood they tag along and get playing time, and the kids in question have gotten playing time before because of that factor as well). She was disappointed because her kids were looking forward to playing in a tournament. I feel like a real heel and wonder if I should send them a small gift card or something with a nice note. The kids on the teams are ages 8 - 12. I was mainly trying to follow the requests of the coach who didn't make them known until a few days after the emails soliciting girls started. I also mentioned that the brackets were changed on us and we face the biggest team the second game, instead of later as was originally planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I arrange the schedule for a team that my husband also coaches. We had an opportunity to play in a tournament, and we offered another dad the chance to coach it. When first emailing and asking who was available, one mom volunteered her two kids first. The coach wanted bigger/older kids than hers because it turned out the teams we were facing were bigger. I emailed and let her know we didn't need her kids after all, and gave the above reason. Also, the team got turned into a team with the younger players from the next division up and the bigger players from our division, plus younger siblings (it's understood they tag along and get playing time, and the kids in question have gotten playing time before because of that factor as well). She was disappointed because her kids were looking forward to playing in a tournament. I feel like a real heel and wonder if I should send them a small gift card or something with a nice note. The kids on the teams are ages 8 - 12. I was mainly trying to follow the requests of the coach who didn't make them known until a few days after the emails soliciting girls started. I also mentioned that the brackets were changed on us and we face the biggest team the second game, instead of later as was originally planned. It was not insensitive; it was unfortunate. It would make things more awkward to send them anything, but I think it would be totally appropriate for you to call and tell them, "I'm sorry," and then your words highlighted above. You know that sports are sometimes like that; you are and were doing your best, and hopefully they will understand these decisions were not yours and just be good sports. It sounds like you've showed a lot of grace in a situation that was changing up until the last minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 I explained most of that in the email to the mom, except the part about the coach's requests coming later. I did mention the coach requested big girls (her girls are tiny) because we are playing big girls. She might feel it was strange of me to call and speak to her girls about it. Is that what you were suggesting? Her girls are only 8 and 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I explained most of that in the email to the mom, except the part about the coach's requests coming later. I did mention the coach requested big girls (her girls are tiny) because we are playing big girls. She might feel it was strange of me to call and speak to her girls about it. Is that what you were suggesting? Her girls are only 8 and 9. No, she can pass that on to them. You might call her though, just to tell her that you feel bad about how everything played out. You sound like a great mediator, and that you wouldn't be too uncomfortable calling. You could also get a better feel for her thoughts, and that might relieve some of your guilt. It gets tough when a range of ages play, because the kids all grow at such different rates. My 12yods plays soccer and basketball in a 9-12 league; he's 5'7 and weighs twice what some of the other kids weigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks - I feel like such a clod much of the time - my dh is the diplomatic one. I'm nice but can't think of how to word things much of the time. But calling her and at least apologizing over the phone does sound better than just an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've never heard of a sports team only let kids of certain sizes play... :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you offered the tournament on a first come first serve basis to the entire team, then I think you need to let them play. If your team is always a coach's choice team, and you were only checking availability for the coach, then what happened was fine. I (just my opinion) think playing time and tournament choice rules need to be established prior to team formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I don't know a lot about organized sports, so forgive me if I am speaking out of turn here. That said, I would be very upset if I were that mother. Her girls fit the age bracket. It doesn't seem fair to me at all to bump them from the team because they are too small. In fact, it seems pretty crappy considering that younger sibs are going to be allowed to play and, I'm assuming, they do not all fall within the 8-12 age bracket. Am I missing something or was the decision basically, "Sorry, but we're only taking large children." Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) Is this a recreational team? There were some shorties in our league who were true spitfires. Edited January 26, 2011 by Snickerdoodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) I think the coach needs to communicate directly to the parents and children how to selection process will work. i probably wouldn't have the team Mom/admin person doing communication about this at that stage. In other words, at the beginning of the season, there should probably be a policy in writing about how selections will work, and then the coach should directly let the kids now who has been chosen for a tournament. I am not sure i would even include the 'whys' for individual selection, unless someone is challenging the coach's decision. Edited to add that in addition to a policy for selecting players, maybe the priorities need to be made clear too. It really seems odd to me to allow younger siblings to play when actual team members are left behind. Edited January 26, 2011 by Danestress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think it is sweet that you are considering your response. However, it seems to me that you gave her too much info. People can be very sensitive about their children (hmmm....not me, ofcourse..NOT). She is probably bummed because of their disappointment. I would not send her a gift card, but I would say "Sorry you are upset." My husband coached youth football for a few years, and he would have situations like that. One mother was complaining that her son wasn't playing enough and wanted to be a field goal kicker. Well, my husband put him right on the field during a game when he needed to make the field goal in order to win the game. (he didn't do it out of spite, but figured he'd give kid a chance). Well, he missed the kick, and this made the mother feel like maybe she spoke too soon about him not playing enough. Youth sports coaching is not easy, as your dh likely sees! Blessings, Camy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbaby Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Is this a recreational or competitive league? Were the girls not allowed to play because if safety or the coach just wanting to win? I am going to assume the latter on the last question. So, in that regard, I think it's wrong. Although it sounds like your just the messenger, unfortunately. As for the coach, he asks for volunteers and then turns them away because of their size? Yikes. Is winning really that important? If it were, there should have been a private selection meeting like they do when they select all-star teams. I'm sorry you got caught in the middle. I think the coach is way out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Does the coach know something about the other teams and how they play? My DD was the absolute smallest on her soccer team (she's 6 and looks 4, and, unfortunately, usually moves like she's 4, too!) and there were a couple of teams where her coach warned me in advance that he'd play her only if he thought it was safe for her. Seeing the teams in action, I could tell why-they tended to have BIG girls (this was a grade 1/2 school league, and I'm wondering if those schools used a different cutoff date so their 1st/2nd graders were older?) and they played ROUGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What about the siblings that will be allowed to play? Are they all big kids, or are some of them smaller and/or younger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Does the coach know something about the other teams and how they play? My DD was the absolute smallest on her soccer team (she's 6 and looks 4, and, unfortunately, usually moves like she's 4, too!) and there were a couple of teams where her coach warned me in advance that he'd play her only if he thought it was safe for her. Seeing the teams in action, I could tell why-they tended to have BIG girls (this was a grade 1/2 school league, and I'm wondering if those schools used a different cutoff date so their 1st/2nd graders were older?) and they played ROUGH. I talked about this in a different thread...but around here, teams are by birth year. You can still have a range of sizes but at least you know your six year old is playing with other six year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I talked about this in a different thread...but around here, teams are by birth year. You can still have a range of sizes but at least you know your six year old is playing with other six year olds. Same thing here. I get a little annoyed when I hear "coaches" trying to recruit bigger kids for their teams. Look at some of the pro teams. Sometimes the smallest players have the most skill and are faster than the bigger players. I think the OP handled the situation fine, but if I were that mom, I would still be upset. I know my kids would just want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 So I asked DH about this - he has coached kids sports since he was 22 (18 years ago), has been on the board of said sports leagues in 3 separate towns we've lived in, been the "player agent", coached/selected all star teams, etc. His take - for a competitive tournament situation, the coach should be able to pick who he wants, regardless of the reason. If this was a regular season game where "if you pay, you play," then it wouldn't be right. But for a competitive tournament, above and beyond the scheduled games, coach picks who he wants. FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 It depends on a few things: Is this really an 11-12 team, that has 8-9 year olds because of siblings or was it actually planned to 8 - 12 and there are even younger siblings? Does the team have more kids than the tournament allows you to bring? Does the tournament have an age bracket? Were there other kids who volunteered but did not get to come? Is the team up to the required/standard size without them? Are optional tournaments usually "first come, first serve?" Had you already told her they could come, then changed your mind (per coach's request)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I know my kids would just want to play. Isn't that what kids' sports programs are supposed to be about? Playing, learning, having fun? Not "get the biggest kids so we can win". :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Its discrimination. Flat out. If I were the Mom, I'd be demanding someone's head on a pike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbaby Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 So I asked DH about this - he has coached kids sports since he was 22 (18 years ago), has been on the board of said sports leagues in 3 separate towns we've lived in, been the "player agent", coached/selected all star teams, etc. His take - for a competitive tournament situation, the coach should be able to pick who he wants, regardless of the reason. If this was a regular season game where "if you pay, you play," then it wouldn't be right. But for a competitive tournament, above and beyond the scheduled games, coach picks who he wants. FWIW. I get this, but still wonder why a private decision wasn't made if this were the case. Why ask for volunteers if you already know who you want to play? I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'm kinda shocked at this coach. Although I do agree that tournaments can be a bit different. This seems wrong and I wouldn't want this person coaching my kids. If it's a safety issue, bench them for that game. Otherwise, I have twins who are still in the 0% for height and weight, and they are also the first recruited for their competitve soccer and baseball teams. Like someone else said they are spitfires. The coach (not the op) should have handled this better. I hope this mom finds another team and her girls pounce this coaches team!!!!! Sorry, op if your kiddos are on that team ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've been around competitive sports alot and I think that it is okay for the coach to pick but that it could have been handled in a better way. I don't what happened is awful but I can see how feelings could be hurt. All that changes though with the part about younger siblings getting playing time. That is wrong, IMO. Team member being bumped for younger siblings? That does not seem right at all. I would be upset if I was the mom and I would take it very personally :( After all, they don't want my girls but it isn't really about size. That would sting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindyD Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 IF the younger siblings can participate, then it's not fair to leave those girls out. If the coach is approving every team member for the tournament team, then it's fair. Perhaps next time no one should be solicited until the coach has decided how he wants to put his team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 You weren't beig insensitive, but the coach handled it incorrectly. If there were a condition on who gets to play, there should not have been a public email requesting volunteers. You know the mom felt bad, so, if I were in your shoes I would either call the her myself, or request the coach call to apologize and explain the circumstance. It's better to just get it off your chest and I'm sure by offering that olive branch, the mom will feel better, too. I understand competition and all, but...these kids are 8-12 years-old! This is when they're developing their skills, learning to love the game. There's no reason to not include everyone who wants to play. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 . Perhaps next time no one should be solicited until the coach has decided how he wants to put his team together. :iagree::iagree: Maybe I don't get it. If a team is invited to be in the tournament, and the girls were already on the team, why can't they travel to the tournament since they were already on the team? They may not get to play as starters, or in the "big game", but are they are a team, or not? Not all players have to have equal time, right? Something doesn't seem right on any of this at all. Or are these invitations to try out to be on the team? I don't think the OP should do anything else for this family that was issued an invitation by mistake. I really don't think it will help. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I get this, but still wonder why a private decision wasn't made if this were the case. Why ask for volunteers if you already know who you want to play? I don't get it. First time quoting, so hopefully I've done it right. I completely understand what you are saying. I guess my take would be that there is a big difference between "there may be a chance to field a team in a tournament this weekend and we were wondering who is available" vs. "would your daughter like to play in a tournament this weekend?" I didn't get the impression that anyone was being invited to play in the tournament, just that people were being asked their availability. I could be wrong though. I know this is how it works for all stars/travel teams around here - all potential players are asked if they could/will commit before selections are even contemplated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I know this is how it works for all stars/travel teams around here - all potential players are asked if they could/will commit before selections are even contemplated. sadly though, the email was sent to those who were already "non potential" players in the coach's decision. or at least that's how I'm reading the situation. I could be wrong. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaLee Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I don't think you did anything wrong per se, but the situation itself was not handled correctly. If you asked for volunteers, and they responded, the coach needs to suck it up and let the girls play regardless of what he thinks they are capable of. If I was that mom, I'd probably be speaking to the league president and calling for a board meeting. Dh and I coached a softball team one season where the whole team was tiny and young and playing against girls twice their size with far more experience than our girls. I was so worried at first that our little munchkins were gonna take a line drive in the face, but they surprised us. We never won a game, but the girls' skill level came way up and they had a great time. Half of those girls play with dd on the Varsity team now. I know you feel bad, but under the circumstances it doesn't really sound like your fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonshine Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 The coach doesn't even know the first girls were recruited then scratched. He sent me his requests after they responded. He wanted no more than smaller 4 - 5 girls so they could all get equal playing time and still be competitive. He is nice about them all playing the same amount of time. He is new to coaching with us, so I wasn't familiar with his style. Well to get the bigger, older girls, we had to let their little sisters come, and that makes up the group of smaller, younger girls. It's a matter of older and bigger girls, not just bigger girls. I see know that I should have communicated back with him and let him know what was going on. The first mom did put it that her kids were available, not that they wanted to play. They live a long way from the game, so I assumed she wasn't dying to drive them there. I will call the mom and explain that I handled this poorly and will try to do better in the future. I am new to being a sports mom and to this position. I ran this by my husband first, who is better at knowing how to handle situations than I am, and he thought it was fine - guess he isn't a mom looking out for her darlings (I use that term in a positive way) and didn't see this from a mom's perspective. Well, I don't think the first mom is livid at all, but I did handle this poorly and will apologize. To explain more, we ended up combining an older team and a younger team to meet the age requirements of the tournament, which was in between the team in ages. That said, we play up all the time - in fact most of our games are playing up. The difference is that in a tournament if we lose two games, we're out so it does matter if we lose. It's nice to play more than two games in a tournament. In regular games of course, we lose all the time - no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 So the girls were cut to make room for the smaller siblings of the bigger girls, because the coach wants to play the bigger girls so that the team can be more competitive (and hopefully play more than two games) during the tournament? IDK. I don't think you did anything wrong, and it seems all agree that the situation should have been handled differently. I feel badly for those girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The politics of being a sports mom is very treacherous!!! I can't believe how much I have learned about this the last few years. If you don't have kids in sports, you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes in these types of situations. I don't think you did anything wrong, and it would be ridiculous for this mom to be calling a league with complaints or calling for corporal punishment of the coach or whatever. However, I can see why she or her girls would be disappointed. It definitely wasn't a good idea to send out a mass email taking volunteers to then pick and choose from -- I've never heard of a team being selected that way. The coach should have been calling the people he had in mind, quietly. Now I've also NEVER heard of a competitive team where siblings played too, or any type of tournament or league that would allow that, and I have no idea what sport this is, so I really can't comment on that. I would not call and apologize, because you were not the one in the wrong, the coach was. I also would not be trying to explain the reasoning -- be it size, strength, skills, personality, attitude, availability, -- all of those are the coach's call in this type of coaches choice team. But since you sound like a compassionate person, and we all know how it hurts when you or your child are left out of something for whatever reason, I would try to reach out to this mom... call or email and say something like "I'm disappointed the girls won't be playing together on X team/this season/whatever, my daughter would love to get together for a play date... are you free next Tuesday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Well to get the bigger, older girls, we had to let their little sisters come, and that makes up the group of smaller, younger girls I have a problem with girls that are regular members of the team being passed over for tournament play so that the younger siblings of other team members can play since that is the only way to get the bigger older girls. My DD (6 YO) plays on a developmental soccer league (between rec league and select level); our coach considers tournaments as a tool to help develop the team. While not everyone necessarily plays in every tournament and playing time is not always equal, I would have an issue with him bringing in non-team-players and not allowing regular players to go to the tournament. While I understand that you want to get your $$ worth by winning so you can play more games, what is the big picture? To have more tournament trophies on the shelf or to develop the team? I also don't understand why the older/bigger girls would not play without the little sisters?? That seems very odd that a family would expect a sibling to be given a spot on a roster over a regular team member. I don't think you were at fault in the situation since you could not read the coach's mind. The coach should have handled it way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 So I asked DH about this - he has coached kids sports since he was 22 (18 years ago), has been on the board of said sports leagues in 3 separate towns we've lived in, been the "player agent", coached/selected all star teams, etc. His take - for a competitive tournament situation, the coach should be able to pick who he wants, regardless of the reason. If this was a regular season game where "if you pay, you play," then it wouldn't be right. But for a competitive tournament, above and beyond the scheduled games, coach picks who he wants. FWIW. But younger sibs can play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the younger sibs thing is very bizarre, but if that's the way the team works and her kids have benefitted from this arrangement previously, then it's not that big a deal because I think she could understand that. I do think it's nice of you to reach out to her again. What I'd really do is want to change the younger sibs thing. That is just weird. I don't really see that in the long run it benefits anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delighted3 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I am not going to get into the team selection semantics. It seems a little bizarre and not very well organized, but I would appreciate knowing ahead of time that my girls were not going to get to play, so I wouldn't waste time and money driving to the tournament and they wouldn't have to face the disappointment of warming the bench all day. JMO, Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Same thing here. I get a little annoyed when I hear "coaches" trying to recruit bigger kids for their teams. Look at some of the pro teams. Sometimes the smallest players have the most skill and are faster than the bigger players. I think the OP handled the situation fine, but if I were that mom, I would still be upset. I know my kids would just want to play. I want the small fast guys to go score the goals. I want the big tough guys to clear out the front of the net while not screening the goalie. :lol: Isn't that what kids' sports programs are supposed to be about? Playing, learning, having fun? Not "get the biggest kids so we can win". :confused: You'd think, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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