WWYD with this 12yo boy?

[Sue G in PA]

My son. :confused: This child was the sweetest, most sensitive, laid-back, helpful, fun-loving kid...until about a year ago or so. Now, the only time I even recognize the boy he used to be is when he is playing with his 2yo brother. It all started even before we sent him back to ps for a year last year but got worse as last year went on. He is disrespectful, defiant, combative, sometimes violent, lazy, greedy, ungrateful, whiny, and just ANGRY pretty much all.the.time. We have tried all kinds of parenting with him. Grounding. Removal of privileges. Extra work. Grace. Given him a choice of living here and changing or moving out and making it on his own. Removal of allowance. Etc. I'm at the end of my rope. Every day is a battle to get him to do anything...schoolwork, chores, etc. He is constantly on his 9yo brother...name-calling, belittling, criticizing, putting him down, taunting, ridiculing...the kid is what a ps would call a bully. And I have told him such. We praise him for what he does right and when we see glimpses of how he used to be. But finding those moments are difficult. We've tried talking to him, asking him what is bothering him but he says, "nothing". We have tried to give him lots of grace but now I feel like he needs a heavy hand. But I am terrified of pushing him further away. What would you do? I fear he is destroying his 9yo brother's self-esteem and have visions of said 9yo turning into a school shooter or something b/c he's "had enough". KWIM? I mean, that's a bit drastic but you see how worried I am. 9yo ds has his own issues (which I have mentioned in many previous posts) but ds12 has no tolerance for ds9. Ds12 is grounded until Wed. from contact with friends (phone or in person). I just need some advice on how to handle future issues, whether it be disrespect, defiance, lying, harsh treatment of little brother, etc. Thanks.

[MelanieM]

My kids are still little and so I really have no advice, but I couldn't read without sending you a hug. :grouphug: I trust that you will find the perfect solution for the highest good of your family. Sending you much love and light.

[Teachin'Mine]

Sue have you thought about having him evaluated? I hate to ask this, but is it at all possible that drugs are involved? I know he's only 12, but it's a whole different world out there. It sounds like he's had a major personality change, and I think an outside "professional" might be able to shed some light. It could also just be he's hit that age with all the changes, and he's having a hard time. I'm praying for him and for you and your family. :grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

I can't imagine drugs are involved b/c we know all the kids he hangs with. There was an incident about 2 weeks ago where I went to look in his desk drawer for something and he pushed it shut before I could see...saying he had a surprise for me in there. Later he gives me this clay sculpture he made (with clay I had JUST given him AFTER the desk incident) so I KNOW that wasn't the "surprise". Make sense? I confronted him and searched his room for anything suspicious. Nothing. He's never shown any signs of having ADHD or any other disorders. It could be the age...but I just don't think that's all.

[stansclan89]

It could be puberty. But having him evaluated wouldn't hurt either. When boys hit puberty they become sometimes violent know-it-all's, but they do grow out of it...in 3 to 10 years or so. With girls it's all emotional.

[Parrothead]

Yeah, I'd take him to a children therapist. He has something going on. The thing in desk could have been anything from a bite-sized candy bar to some small bit of dope that he pocketed. The anger, bullying and lying are all signs of a troubled young person.

[Unicorn.]

I can't imagine drugs are involved b/c we know all the kids he hangs with. There was an incident about 2 weeks ago where I went to look in his desk drawer for something and he pushed it shut before I could see...saying he had a surprise for me in there. Later he gives me this clay sculpture he made (with clay I had JUST given him AFTER the desk incident) so I KNOW that wasn't the "surprise". Make sense? I confronted him and searched his room for anything suspicious. Nothing. He's never shown any signs of having ADHD or any other disorders. It could be the age...but I just don't think that's all.

 

He's covering something. I was going to say age, but it may be more than that. And don't assume that just because you know all the kids he hangs with, and they come across as lovely children, that they can't be into drugs. I would be checking that kid's eyeballs, smelling his clothes, heck I might even spring for a surprise drug test if I thought it might be warranted. :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't imagine drugs are involved b/c we know all the kids he hangs with. There was an incident about 2 weeks ago where I went to look in his desk drawer for something and he pushed it shut before I could see...saying he had a surprise for me in there. Later he gives me this clay sculpture he made (with clay I had JUST given him AFTER the desk incident) so I KNOW that wasn't the "surprise". Make sense? I confronted him and searched his room for anything suspicious. Nothing. He's never shown any signs of having ADHD or any other disorders. It could be the age...but I just don't think that's all.

 

Sue - my brother, a missionary kid, got and used drugs supplied by another "good boy" who was another missionary kid. It might not be drugs but your son was obviously hiding something from you.

 

There are residential programs (I know of a good Christian one in Arkansas) for troubled tweens and teens. There is family counseling. I think you need to do something. And I would start with a non-negotiable (for him) drug-test.

[Sue G in PA]

I thought about a child therapist. The problem is...and this is no flimsy excuse...we can't afford it! Our budget is already stretched to the breaking point and beyond. And it's not b/c of living the high life if you kwim. Basics. So I'm stuck! I honestly don't know what to do. Pray. That's about all I can do and have done.

[Peela]

I dont know but my ds14 was really, really obnoxious (as distinct from just normally obnoxious in his case) for a year or two and seems to have pulled through it- hes quite sweet lately. It was obviously the effects of the extra testosterone surging in his system which starts well before the physical signs of puberty. It definitely brought out the worst in him.

It reminds me that that is the age the Australian abosrigines and other native cultures take their boys out to the wilderness and do tough boy things, initiations, with them.

We found once ds got a part time job doing physical work, he changed. It was great for his self esteem.

So perhaps some sort of meaningful work? Where he gets paid? I dont know..he might be a bit young...but it seems to be an age where many boys need to start feeling like they are being treated as more than just kids- even though they still act like them. They need responsiblities- even though they will often fail them. And they seem to need more time with dad and a bit less time with mum, in my experience.

[Lolly]

My son. :confused: This child was the sweetest, most sensitive, laid-back, helpful, fun-loving kid...until about a year ago or so. Now, the only time I even recognize the boy he used to be is when he is playing with his 2yo brother. It all started even before we sent him back to ps for a year last year but got worse as last year went on. He is disrespectful, defiant, combative, sometimes violent, lazy, greedy, ungrateful, whiny, and just ANGRY pretty much all.the.time. We have tried all kinds of parenting with him. Grounding. Removal of privileges. Extra work. Grace. Given him a choice of living here and changing or moving out and making it on his own. Removal of allowance. Etc. I'm at the end of my rope. Every day is a battle to get him to do anything...schoolwork, chores, etc. He is constantly on his 9yo brother...name-calling, belittling, criticizing, putting him down, taunting, ridiculing...the kid is what a ps would call a bully. And I have told him such. We praise him for what he does right and when we see glimpses of how he used to be. But finding those moments are difficult. We've tried talking to him, asking him what is bothering him but he says, "nothing". We have tried to give him lots of grace but now I feel like he needs a heavy hand. But I am terrified of pushing him further away. What would you do? I fear he is destroying his 9yo brother's self-esteem and have visions of said 9yo turning into a school shooter or something b/c he's "had enough". KWIM? I mean, that's a bit drastic but you see how worried I am. 9yo ds has his own issues (which I have mentioned in many previous posts) but ds12 has no tolerance for ds9. Ds12 is grounded until Wed. from contact with friends (phone or in person). I just need some advice on how to handle future issues, whether it be disrespect, defiance, lying, harsh treatment of little brother, etc. Thanks.

 

 

Since my son turned 11, I discovered that I find girls easier as teens than boys. I can understand girls. They get a bit emotional. They cry. They feel blue. Boys get angry. I don't handle irrational anger quite as well as irrational tears.

 

What I have found to help: hard, sweaty physical exercise and lots of it. Preferably with responsibility attached. I think it is really a shame that we don't need more fences that need posts. I've also noticed that ds wants to be a man. He behaves better when he feels he is doing something for the good of the family. Of course, it needs a manly bent to it. Vacuuming is not manly. Cleaning out the car is. Scraping and painting the garage door is. Power washing the driveway is. It works if he is dh's assistant. It doesn't work as well if he is my assistant. He is a little cub wanting to up his pecking order in the pack. It is just fine if I assign and inspect the work, but it seems best if I leave him to do it. Just plain old physical running or hiking is good enough though. I'm talking a minimum of 2.5 hours a day. Hard paced. Does he have any interest or participate in any sports?

Edited October 25, 2010 by Lolly

[Lolly]

I dont know but my ds14 was really, really obnoxious (as distinct from just normally obnoxious in his case) for a year or two and seems to have pulled through it- hes quite sweet lately. It was obviously the effects of the extra testosterone surging in his system which starts well before the physical signs of puberty. It definitely brought out the worst in him.

It reminds me that that is the age the Australian abosrigines and other native cultures take their boys out to the wilderness and do tough boy things, initiations, with them.

We found once ds got a part time job doing physical work, he changed. It was great for his self esteem.

So perhaps some sort of meaningful work? Where he gets paid? I dont know..he might be a bit young...but it seems to be an age where many boys need to start feeling like they are being treated as more than just kids- even though they still act like them. They need responsiblities- even though they will often fail them. And they seem to need more time with dad and a bit less time with mum, in my experience.

 

You and I are up the same tree!:001_smile:

[Sue G in PA]

He plays soccer. Not much else. He doesn't do a ton of physical labor unless by punishment. He loves to build, fix and reconstruct bikes, etc. Recently he got into playing with these airsoft guns (not his) with a good friend in our neighborhood (known him since 1st grade...good family). I don't know what I can make him do...he rarely listens to me.

[Sue G in PA]

Anyone think martial arts like Tae kwan Do would be helpful for him? Just a thought that creeped in. Expensive thought...martial arts classes are expensive around here. Ugh.

[Lolly]

He plays soccer. Not much else. He doesn't do a ton of physical labor unless by punishment. He loves to build, fix and reconstruct bikes, etc. Recently he got into playing with these airsoft guns (not his) with a good friend in our neighborhood (known him since 1st grade...good family). I don't know what I can make him do...he rarely listens to me.

 

What do you need done around the house. (This is harder in the winter! Summer around here provides lots of grass and bushes.) Enlist his HELP. Make sure he knows that you really need him to do it. If at all possible pay him for his work. You don't have to make it something huge. He might even consider payment in the form of his favorite snack or meal (especially if it is just for him). I've been shocked at what ds has been able to do. He's had to read up to do some of it. He's working on patching some dry wall that he accidentally put a couple of holes in (slipped and ripped a towel rack off the bathroom wall). Do you have any leaves that need a good raking? Branches that are too low on trees to be sawed? Heck, you need a wood burning fireplace so that he can chop wood!!! I swear all this new aged living is going to be the death of men. It takes the physical labor away that boys so need.

[Lolly]

Anyone think martial arts like Tae kwan Do would be helpful for him? Just a thought that creeped in. Expensive thought...martial arts classes are expensive around here. Ugh.

 

Actually, that would be perfect. It is very expensive though. Cheaper than therapy...

[catalinakel]

I feel your pain, Sue, but would not turn a blind eye to the possibility of drugs. I'd search his room good when he wasn't around. It won't hurt, and it may just save his life.

 

Aside from that, when my 12 yr. old boy was going attitudinal on me, I came here for advice, and several recommended Civil Air Patrol. It has been just the thing for my boy...and It is cheap. It gives him a chance to do and learn important things, and to make a name for himself in a place other than at home or at school. He loves it, even though they work him very hard. I just googled it and found several groups near us.

[ZeldaRules]

Some teens get off on that choking game. No drugs needed. They choke themselves until they about black out and then they undo themselves. It gives them a high from the lack of oxygen to the brain. However, those that have done this have high irritability and anger issues. It starts in the preteen ages. I'm not saying your son is doing this, but there are other things that can make a child have anger issues without using drugs. Also sniffing cans do that. Those cans that clean the computers are a culprit. And ADHD kids can make money by selling their ridalin or other drugs, and kids who don't need it like to take it. I guess it gives them lots of energy and helps them stay up. I know it's something that happens on college campuses more.

 

The choking game can cause bloodshot eyes as well.

 

Hugs to you. The preteen and teen years scare me.

 

You say he goes to public school? I would start with the school counselor. Maybe he knows of some resources in your area that may help you that don't cost a lot or places that give free help. Is there a university in your area? If they have a masters degree in psychology, they may offer some services cheap.

 

I would check to see if your insurance covers the therapy you need.

 

Good luck.

[deannajo]

Most communities have mental health centers where therapy is offered for free or reduced fees (like on a sliding scale) - also if you live near a university, there are usually programs set up through the grad schools that offer reduced-fee treatment options.

:grouphug:

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I feel for you, Sue. My son is about the same age as your son (almost 13). Like your son, he had huge behavior problems for years. But, he made *dramatic* improvements through the use of probiotics and yeast inhibitors, and certain other supplements (like omega-3 fatty acids and other essential oils).

 

I would highly recommend you go to http://www.diannecraft.com,'>http://www.diannecraft.com,'>http://www.diannecraft.com,'>http://www.diannecraft.com, and order her CD set called The Biology of Behavior. All of the "symptoms" you describe can be caused or exacerbated by diet and/or deficiencies in certain nutrients. This is especially true of children who had large amounts of antibiotics at some point in their lives. My son's gut was totally messed up from the high dosage/long duration antibiotics he had as a young child, which killed all the good bacteria in his gut. (The antibiotics were necessary at the time to save his life, but we didn't know how to prevent/recognize/treat the problems they caused in his intestines). The yeast (fungus) in his gut was then allowed to go haywire (fed by all the sugar he craved). In turn, his serotonin levels were down. Serotonin is a chemical in the blood (a neurotransmitter, I believe) which helps keep us calm and content. It is produced in the intestines, but it's production is inhibited by the presence of yeast there). Not having enough of serotonin causes all sorts of negative symptoms.

 

Dianne lists the following behavior problems (associated with "upset body chemistry") on her website:

Angry, aggressive

Irritable, touchy

Inappropriate behavior

Mood swings

Attention/focusing problems

Depression

Hyperactivity

Restless, nervous

Fearful

Sensory Processing Problems "SI"

Bothered by tags, socks, foods, transitions

 

There are just as many physical symptoms.

 

Below is a direct link to the Biology of Behavior CD set. In addition, I highly recommend that you go to Dianne Craft's home page (http://www.diannecraft.com) and read all about her. I've heard her speak (an all-day seminar for homeschoolers and school teachers), and she's wonderful. Her methods and supplement advice have made a HUGE difference in our family and homeschooling life!

 

http://stores.diannecraft.org/Detail.bok?no=2

 

HTH,

Suzanne

[Teachin'Mine]

I can't imagine drugs are involved b/c we know all the kids he hangs with. There was an incident about 2 weeks ago where I went to look in his desk drawer for something and he pushed it shut before I could see...saying he had a surprise for me in there. Later he gives me this clay sculpture he made (with clay I had JUST given him AFTER the desk incident) so I KNOW that wasn't the "surprise". Make sense? I confronted him and searched his room for anything suspicious. Nothing. He's never shown any signs of having ADHD or any other disorders. It could be the age...but I just don't think that's all.

 

As has been said, he was obviously hiding something. It could have been anything, but I wouldn't rule out drugs or drug related. He would have been sure to clear out everything immediately after that, so a search wouldn't have brought up anything. As others said, you can't judge friends by their manners or appearance. Because of his age, there should be low cost help available. Many treatment centers have sliding scale fees. If you have insurance, they may accept that as total payment, and if you don't, the cost of evaluation, counseling, etc. is based on income. Please don't let the cost stop you from pursuing this further. Prayer is great - keep praying! But look into at least an evaluation as well.

 

You can also go to an Al-Anon meeting to listen to what other parents have experienced and see if any of it rings true for you. You can get the support of other parents, and also find out what resources are available in your community.

 

I'd also be inclined to confront him about the desk situation. Be direct with him that you know that the clay present wasn't what he was hiding, and let him know what you suspect. It's better if both you and your husband talk with him as you can read his reaction and get some idea from that.

 

I think a perfectly acceptable consequence for any bullying with his younger brother is to be grounded and lose communication with his friends. See if this causes his behavior to improve or to escalate - either way could be telling.

 

I hope some of this is coherent as I'm up waaaaay past my bedtime. :tongue_smilie:

[Chris in VA]

Could be a number of things--I'm sorry you have to deal with it.

There's no cost counseling in many community centers--or try the alcohol and drug services youth in your area. They can evaluate and do a drug test. It's free or very low cost.

Mine started experimenting with alcohol at 12. It happens.

If he's doing any drugs, don't expect them to be in his room. Stash places are amazingly varied--my son's list included MY car, above the pipes in the laundry room, under the lift-up ceiling tiles, in the pool table pockets (we never used it), in the backyard well house, and many more.

 

He sounds very, very unhappy. Could he be reacting to your situation? I think you should approach this as a team with your husband. I am convinced kids need to see you totally together, not just mom handling the kids. How is his relationship with his dad, anyway? (You don't have to answer, I just am throwing it out there.)

 

Hitting this on multiple fronts is probably where you want to go.

 

Lots of :grouphug: for you.

[chiguirre]

Sue, I remember you posting about issues with your dd a year or two ago when I think she was about this age. How is she doing? If she's doing much better now and her issues resolved with age, I would consider giving your ds some time to work through the puberty hormones while keeping an eye out for any signs of drug use.

 

Good luck!

[justamouse]

Since my son turned 11, I discovered that I find girls easier as teens than boys. I can understand girls. They get a bit emotional. They cry. They feel blue. Boys get angry. I don't handle irrational anger quite as well as irrational tears.

 

What I have found to help: hard, sweaty physical exercise and lots of it. Preferably with responsibility attached.

 

Yup, and yup to the tae kwon do, too. HAve you noticed the threads here on 11 yo boys? It's not coincidence. It's a tough age for them.

 

Actually, that would be perfect. It is very expensive though. Cheaper than therapy...

:iagree:

 

 

I've BTDT and I just want to give you :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. It gets better. My situation was a lot different than yours (anger at his stepfather, his own father neglected him) but the results and the prescription was the same. Even this year had it's moments and I still worry. But God is making a way for him, and, for once, he's following it. He's landed himself a huge paying job with something he loves to do and has a natural talent for and life is exciting him again (this is my homeschool/hs dropout who got his GED). So, just remember that you're not alone, it's not your fault and God, day by day, makes crooked paths straight.

 

Put it out there. Tell God you need something specific for this kid, and wait for God's answer and pay attention to the small serendipitous things that happen each day.

Edited October 25, 2010 by justamouse

[elegantlion]

I agree with what others have said. IMO that sounds excessive for just calling it puberty. Something is bothering him or he is hiding something. Personally I think a boys weekend alone with dad would be a good start. My ds will talk in the car, when he's not forced to look face-to-face. Have them drive a couple of hours away, go camping or something else that requires some labor. IMO this is where your dh can ask some hard questions, have a heart-to-heart and do some bonding. It may not fix it, but it's a start. It pulls them both of the current (tense sounding) situation and shows ds that you do care.

 

Just some questions I'd be asking myself, no need to answer here. Is he concerned about how his body is changing? Has he discussed this all with dad? Is he experimenting with things over his level of understanding (drugs, s*x, alcohol, prescription drugs). Is he being bullied in some way?

[Laurie4b]

Sue, I think it could be as simple as adolescence or it could be more dire (drugs, etc.) In hindsight, the next time he hides something from you, that's your cue to see it. (As someone else mentioned, it could have been as mundane as a candy bar, a note from a girl, etc. or it could be drugs.)

 

We have been through a lot of what you describe once the boys hit 11. It's like an alien got into your kid. With some of them it's worse than with others. With some, it lasts longer than with others.

 

Some things that work:

 

 

Be careful of piling up consequences. You can easliy get into a really negative cycle: hormonally angry kid misbehaves, you give consequences, he gets angrier and feels more distant and does something else, you give more consequences, he gets angrier and more distant.....

 

Be proactive instead--I think it's helpful to view angry behavior as an area in which a person needs to learn to control himself. So when he ramps up, begin with a plan you've come up with ahead of time with him to help him get a grip on the anger. Controlling anger (especially hormonal anger) is a skill set that is not learned through consequences. Put 10x your energy into being proactive as you do into being reactive through consequences.

 

That is not to say that there are no consequences, but that you are primarily teaching and being his ally with this new thing he must control himself, not being the dispenser of punishments.

 

Proactive strategies: let men be the key leaders to your ds; focus on strengthening relationship with everyone, teach control of anger, exercise. [

 

Dad becomes key. Young Y chromosomes respect larger Y chromosomes. :tongue_smilie: Dad needs to both strengthen their relationship (taking him fishing, camping, to dinner, etc.) as well as become the main disciplinarian. When a son disrespects me, my dh makes it an issue of disrespecting his wife, so it all goes back to him.

 

As others have said, physical labor is important, and it helps if it's got responsibility attached. Swimming is usually quite a bit cheaper than martial arts. Dad could take the boys swimming and require a certain number of laps before free-play. Running is free. Martial arts do not in and of themselves help with anger issues. They are a good form of exercise. (However, some sensais do emphasize nonviolence during class--but you may be able to get the alternate male role model free elsewhere.) Jobs like mowing lawns, doing yard work, etc. are helpful. Volunteer work along these lines is also helpful. Often state and local parks will have volunteer clean-up days--Dad and son can do stuff like that together.

 

 

Right now, his anger is his ally in his fight against you and other members of his family. You need to flip that so that you and his dad are his allies in his fight to secure control of his anger.

 

So be pro-active in helping ds to acquire self-control when it comes to anger. It is very helpful when a ds starts getting angry to simply: 1) separate the two kids immediately (and teach them that this is the first thing to do when they feel their anger getting out of control) and 2) exercise hard. The exercise dispels the cortisol and adrenaline and they get back to a normal mood pretty quickly. It's best if this is done more as "anger control" than as punishment. Teach ds to recognize his anger signals and to handle them. (First, however, he has to agree that the anger and bullying are wrong. Talk with him about this when he's in a decent mood)

 

Try to keep any consequences related to the behavior and keep them short. So a blow-up with younger brother, first thing is to go outside to exercise (as above); once the kid's anger has dissipated, then deal with the relationship issue (and don't overlook whether younger child is provoking older one.) An apology, doing a chore for sib that was bullied, etc. --keep it short.

 

Other proactive things would be doing things to strengthen the relationship with the sibling--so Dad takes ds and sibling out together, you find something that the two who fight can do that they enjoy together, etc.

 

I find that one channel of love that a teenage boy remains open to accepting from mom in even the tensest of times is food. "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach" may be especially true during the teen years. My boys are definitely softened up by a good meal.

 

 

Enlist other men who might be good role models: grandfathers, uncles, etc. A key is m-e-n. My experience is that my sons come back to a place of affection with me after a period in which I've loosened the relationship, pulled out of a lot of discipline by turning it over to dh, and cooked a lot. But you've got to give way to the men in their lives. This is a necessary step, I think, toward them leaving home and getting married with another woman replacing the supremacy of mom in their younger years. Try to go with the flow of the developmental task here.

 

Do you belong to a church? Is there a good youth minister? We've gotten lots of help from our youth minister. He is very wise and has both helped us not to overreact to what is essentially pretty normal stuff as well as being another man in our sons' lives who they look up to and who gives them motivation to apply their faith even in mundane situations at home.

 

 

You may not be able to afford therapy (different state budgets will result in free or low cost mental health services or the lack thereof) but you can probably afford an initial evaluation (to rule out drugs or mood disorder) and possibly some type of behavioral therapy. Behavioral or cognitive behavioral therapy is oriented to teaching skills and is very practical. It does not drag on and on and on as talk-therapy does. (To rule out drugs, you have to go to a counselor who deals with substance abuse. Generic therapists could miss it.)

 

Laurie--mom to four boys who are older than 11! (btdt)

Edited October 25, 2010 by Laurie4b

[hsmom]

You just described my son! He is 14 now and we have been battling this for a while now. We have tried everything.

 

I have considered the whole drug thing and it was not my son. I know the signs, I know how you act, etc. Now unlike a lot of others I know this from first hand. So, I really know what to look for, smell, etc. Not just a description on a site or whatever. Now my son is not doing drugs. Yet his attitude is horrible. He has no drive to do more than what is needed and even then it is a fight to get it done. He fights with his siblings like no other. All he wants to do is hang out with friends and have fun. Nothing else.

 

I have no advice! I am so lost on all this also. I know in our situation therapy would not work. My son would not talk about anything and I would have wasted my money.

 

Right now I am doing a new thing with him, because I am out of ideas. So, here is what is going on at our house. I am not yelling, telling, or asking anymore. I have decided he is 14 and can he knows what I expect. I gave him his list of what needs done morning, afternoon/afterschool (he is ps), and evening. I told him that I will not tell him or ask him if things were done. But if he wants to do stuff things will be done without being told. No exceptions. There will be no tv, no friends, no phones, nothing if he cannot get what he needs done by himself. When he asks to go out all I say is "do you think you deserve it?". Usually he stops now and checks around to make sure and comes back and says yes or no. Or he does what is needed so he can go. I know it is not the best thing to do, but I am tired of being a b**** all the time, I hate being grumpy and mad. So, now it is all on him, he decides what he will have by any and all actions. I will not fight about it, yell, nothing.

[secular_mom]

My son. :confused: This child was the sweetest, most sensitive, laid-back, helpful, fun-loving kid...until about a year ago or so. Now, the only time I even recognize the boy he used to be is when he is playing with his 2yo brother. It all started even before we sent him back to ps for a year last year but got worse as last year went on.

He is disrespectful, defiant, combative, sometimes violent, lazy, greedy, ungrateful, whiny, and just ANGRY pretty much all.the.time. We have tried all kinds of parenting with him. Grounding. Removal of privileges. Extra work. Grace. Given him a choice of living here and changing or moving out and making it on his own.

My son (not 12) went downhill very quickly and very far when he went to PS for a few weeks last year. It took a while to get him back to 'normal'. He has vision issues, and is a slow reader because of it (except when I print things in a large font for him to read) even though he is wearing glasses. He hated himself and felt like he was stupid and he was a failure because he wasn't at the same level as the other kids in his class. It was VERY bad- he as ANGRY at everyone at home, every little thing would set him off and he was very mean to his siblings during that time.

Is your son feeling inadequate academically? He could have been feeling the stress of not being 'up to speed' with his PS peers before you sent him to school if that's the case, especially if he knew you were considering it before you actually enrolled him. Kids can put a lot of pressure on themselves.

 

Also, I say this gently, but I think it needs to be said. Telling a TWELVE year old that he can either shape up and continue to live at home with his family or he can choose to continue his current behavior (which is showing that he is in NEED of something, even if you don't know what it is he is needing) and 'make it on his own' sounds overly harsh and frankly- cruel. He is already down in the dumps- anger is a symptom of depression. I really hope you can refrain from making such statements or implications to him in the future.

 

I haven't read any other replies yet, sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.

[Sue G in PA]

FWIW...you must understand the circumstances behind the "shape up or ship out" ultimatum that I made. It was entirely appropriate at the time. He made the right choice and came back and apologized and was "okay" the rest of the day. Thank you all for your responses. I'm going to spend some time looking over the responses again, talk to dh, do some more praying and see what we come up with. Thanks.

[Laura Corin]

Hold On To Your Kids talks about children who behave like that at home as being the equivalent of someone having an affair: the heart is elsewhere, so time spent in the 'old' family is unbearably irritating. You can read the first chapter of the book here.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[LibraryLover]

The first thing I thought of, drawer-wise, was pictures of naked people, not drugs.

 

My brother had quite the (not so) hidden Playboy collection at that age. He turned out OK. I understand that what is avilable on the internet is a far cry from Playboy.

 

It's possible it's not drugs.

[Garga]

My kids are not that age, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

12 or so is the age when kids would become apprentices, yes? That means to me that at that age they're ready to learn a real skill. My plan was that when my kids reached about that age, we'd try to find another man in their life for them to learn from.

 

A friend of mine whose son was like that, was given a job helping the maintenance guy at the church. I'm hoping that when my kids are that age, we can do that, too.

 

I agree with the other posters about finding him a meaningful, manly job. Either around your house, or with someone else. And preferably something very physical.

[Sue G in PA]

Re: the drawer...my first thought was porn as well. He has already been caught viewing internet porn. Dh and I will talk later and then confront him with our concerns and our expectations and consequences. I have read Hold On To Your Kids..loved it. It's why he is home this year and not back in ps despite his protests. As for physical labor...there really isn't much for him to do around here, however I have a friend who is Amish and thought of asking her if ds12 could "hang out" with her dh and sons one day each week and help on the farm. Lots of physical labor there! Not to mention the good, positive influences. :D

[mcconnellboys]

Wow, Sue, this would really worry me. You haven't smelled any weird smells in his room, have you (not that you necessarily would)? Huffing has become a big problem among middle school kids. His belligerence is worrisome and paired with hiding something and you don't know what - that makes me very concerned....

[cougarmom4]

We've struggled with our oldest with his anger and self-control issues. Finally after years of dealing with it (reading every parenting book, searching all over the web, crying & praying often w/the Lord, feeling so overwhelmed with the way it interfered with our family, etc), we decided to take our ds13 to a therapist to get some help a few months ago. I thought for sure he would say it was oppositional defiance, but his opinion is that it is more of a mood disorder/adolescent depression. He suggested trying an antidepressant (we got a prescription for a $4 Walmart one) and continuing counseling for a little while. Well, we had hoped our insurance would help w/counseling, but it won't, so we haven't been able to go back very many times...but it has helped lessen the intensity of things...which is allowing us to work through his anger/frustration with him by talking rather than us all getting into a full-blown yelling-screaming-throwing-hitting-stomping-slamming match every.single.day. Things have improved a lot...we still have a lot to work on...but I have seen my sweet boy emerge again!

 

So I guess my comment is this--I know antidepressants aren't the answer for everything--or everyone...and it's certainly not a cure-all fix. But maybe it's something to discuss with your doctor and see if it might be a possibility.

 

Good luck, Sue! I know how emotionally exhausting it is to be going through this...there were times when I had to pray to feel much love for this boy that was making our home so filled with contention!

[mum]

my son also went through a not so pretty time around age 12, and my nephew the same. They both came through in about a year. I gave him lots of physical work, he actually got 2 yard work jobs, made sure he had more than enough schoolwork, and I rarely left him on his own. It was a not fun time but now is much better. THere's an older series of books called "Your ... year-old." the last one is "your 10-14 year old" and it talks about all the changes, physical, mental, emotional, social. It's written by 2 MD's I think, and is so dead-on. It was really helpful to me to get the inside look at a 12 year old boy. I got them from the library. On the therapist side, we have a local Christian counseling center that charges on a sliding scale, so that might be worth looking into. And just keep getting some support for yourself. Once I admitted to some older ladies with boys what had been going on, I realized I was not so alone. And it was encouraging to see those older boys and see the proof that they come through it. I didn't assume that my son was or wasn't into anything bad, all bets were off and I watched like a hawk about everything.

Blessings!