Crying boys?

[Murphy101]

The thing that's bothering me about this thread is it appears some think all crying can be controlled. :001_huh: The only times I've cried in public were not something I could control. I can excuse myself from the situation and get myself back together (something many said would maybe have been more help to the young boy) but I can't just stop. It's not like I'm choosing to cry - I just am.

 

Again. I have not read that either.:001_huh:

 

People have said he needed to be guided on this and moved on.

 

No one is saying people, certainly children, should never cry ever.

 

No is saying that very second he had better stop crying or else.

 

He was just told enough already time to move on. He probably snuffled for a few more minutes and did so.

[LostSurprise]

That's not guidance. That's feeling uncomfortable and stopping the thing (crying kid) that's making you uncomfortable.

[asta]

That's not guidance. That's feeling uncomfortable and stopping the thing (crying kid) that's making you uncomfortable.

 

Then what is guidance?

[Mrs Mungo]

I have not heard anyone say that.

 

For the most part it is not relevant.

 

Regardless, they should be guided to self-control and appropriateness.

 

Some might be referring to the fact that a refusal to do so is making a lack of self control and inappropriate emotional outburst more tolerated. Guess one could extrapolate that to they are being nurtured into tolerating it rather than guided to self control.

 

I have children who are naturally more inclined to a quick temper than some of my other children. It really doesn't matter though because it is still not appropriate and I'm still going to try to teach them self control. It might always be harder for them, but it will still always be expected of them.

 

I a really not sure what the heck this part of the argument is saying. Once again, I think everyone is working with different definitions.

 

I am *not* particularly sensitive. I don't get my feelings hurt very easily. I *do not* like other people to be unnecessarily hurt (hence, I would have liked to seen it handled differently). I am an extrovert and extremely expressive. I do not cry easily for myself, I do cry easily for other people. My dh doesn't cry, he is probably about the same amount of sensitive that I am. None of these things go hand-in-hand.

 

The thing that's bothering me about this thread is it appears some think all crying can be controlled. :001_huh: The only times I've cried in public were not something I could control. I can excuse myself from the situation and get myself back together (something many said would maybe have been more help to the young boy) but I can't just stop. It's not like I'm choosing to cry - I just am.

 

Again. I have not read that either.:001_huh:

 

People have said he needed to be guided on this and moved on.

 

No one is saying people, certainly children, should never cry ever.

 

No is saying that very second he had better stop crying or else.

 

He was just told enough already time to move on. He probably snuffled for a few more minutes and did so.

 

Let's boil those two posts down:

"The only times I've cried in public were not something I could control."

 

"No one is saying people, certainly children, should never cry ever.

He was just told enough already time to move on."

 

The poster before you was saying that's not always so easy and I agree. I'm not really a crier, but once I start it's HARD to stop, especially if people keep bugging me. Leave me alone long enough to get my emotions in check. Tell me to man up and I'll probably cry ten more minutes.

[pdalley]

That's not guidance. That's feeling uncomfortable and stopping the thing (crying kid) that's making you uncomfortable.

 

 

If one of my boys starts crying as depicted in the OP's scenario it could easily escalate into a complete and total meltdown. One of my kids can become physical when that happens. So we 'nip it in the bud'. He is allowed to feel however he wants but it is NOT acceptable to fly into a rage and affect the general public. If they don't learn it gradually as children then they'd learn it when they were arrested as adults. Not happening to my boys. They know they can let loose at home. No one is telling them they can't feel something but not everything that is felt needs to be expressed the moment it is felt regardless of where that person is.

 

We call it teaching self control and view it as a vital life skill for our kids -who happen to be Aspies and have issues in self regulation.

 

I can't count the number of relationships - friendships and job opportunities - that I lost because I did not teach myself self control and had no one to guide me. Even though I was allowed and sometimes encouraged to express every emotion I had when I had it I'm not nearly as self confident and content as my husband who was reared much differently than I was. He was taught self control yet it he is the most kind-hearted man I know.

 

Everyone's family is different and this is what is right for ours.

[Mejane]

He is allowed to feel however he wants but it is NOT acceptable to fly into a rage and affect the general public.

 

I think this is key. The crying boy's emotions, if left unchecked, could have affected the whole team in a negative way. The coach nipped it, as a good coach should.

[Peela]

Hide me now if you don't want to hear it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

 

 

 

Maybe you are looking at this backwards. Society today is more accepting of differences so boys and men are not forced to be alpha males if that is not their natural bent. It isn't all nuture. There is much to be said for a child's natural bent. Some boys are more sensitive than others. Society today is more accepting of that and those children will grow up as more sensitive men.

 

The world needs sensitive men too.

 

I don't really know what the whole of society is doing- its easier to see trends in retrospect, such as whether it is a weakness that men are allowed to express and feel and be more feminine. I do definitely see that the feminine is allowed to have its place more and more.

But I do feel that it IS time for change and we have had ENOUGH of a severely and extremely patriarchal culture, where the values of domination and competition are revered and the feminine- in both men AND women- is repressed. We are in a decades long process of rebalancing, where the feminine is resurfacing- and it is resurfacing in both women AND men.

I do think this is a GOOD thing ultimately- we need more feminine values of empathy and compassion right across our culture. We need them desperately. And as usual, as with the intitial rise of feminism- there is a swing to the opposite extreme first- women got in touch with their masculine side and asserted themselves into all aspects of the culture. Now, they are integrating and embracing their feminine sides again.

I see the same swing happening with men- but it is a long process. Men are allowing their more feminine side to express and come out- and many of us instinctively know it is important. How many of our husbands attended our kids' births, compared to THEIR fathers? I have met many rather feminine young men in the last few years. They are literally beautiful- drop dead gorgeous. Soft. Open. But still masculine.

I think its a good thing...but yes, there may well be a swing too far...sissy boys and all. But I think it is part of a much larger societal trend which I see as ultimately a good thing.

My dh is a mentor to young men. Many of these men are very lost. He is helping them deal with their emotional issues AS WELL AS teaching them how to survive and thrive in the world, to run successful businesses etc. My dh is also one of these men who has a very strong masculine side AND is completely comfortable with his feminine side.

Our son has always been quick to tears and also to anger- highly emotional. Really- nto much we could ever do about it without completely brekaign his spirit- and I think we have matured as a generation past teh point of wanting to do that, generally spekaing. But my son is almost 15, rarely cries any more and when he does - he has learnt to manage it himself. I think 12 is a bit young for that for highly emotional kids- but I dont know any 15 yearo olds who behave the same way. I tihnk 12 is about the age when in traditional societies, the men would take the boys out and initiate them into the mens' world.

 

I dont think you can keep looking at the past and idealising it- it was messed up too. Our dhs and their fathers were not allowed to express their feelings so much. Times have changed and its a good thing. But maybe it will go a bit far in that extreme before balancing out.

 

Ultimately...I feel it is great that women can feel comfortable being soft and feminine, and also direct and authratitive and action oriented....and also that men can feel deeply empathic and compassionate and express that openly, while still being masculine. We are all whole beings- we have both within us, all in varying degrees. I dont see what is happening as ultimately bad at all.

[Meriwether]

Hide me now if you don't want to hear it:

 

 

 

 

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

 

:iagree:

 

I'm not entirely sure why people think "man up" is so bad. If someone says "man up", it is telling the person they are capable of being tough. I only have one brother. He is very sensitive if that qualification is important. From what I've seen, boys want to be men. When my brother was 11, his summer goal was to stack the hay higher and tighter than my dad could. Of course, he failed at 11. He failed at 12. He failed at 13. He failed at 14. By the time he was 15, he was as valuable in the hayfield as any man. Also by 11 he helped my dad almost every Saturday and vacation day with his construction jobs. His goal? To be as good or better than Dad. He eventually majored in construction science. I'll never forget the first time he came home after he'd started his first job. The first thing he did was show Dad his toolbelt - he'd always used Dad's old one when Dad got a new one - which was much bigger and fancier than anything Dad had. When my brother was in high school, many Sunday afternoons featured a wrestling match between my 50 year old Dad and my brother (and my brothers two best friends). Dad could take all 3 of them at the same time.:tongue_smilie: My brother kept trying and trying and trying. Until one day he could beat Dad. I'll never be convinced that proving himself against the alpha male harmed my brother. I don't know that anyone used the term "man up" with him but the idea was there.

 

But then, I'm the mean Mama who told her 4 year old to be tough and get back with the other kids after he had gotten hurt (after a hug and I'm sorry your got hurt). Oh, I also tell my kids if they whine and fuss "No one likes a fussy baby/kid." My kids, oddly enough, are happy, well-adjusted kids who feel confident in their relationship with me and frequently express their emotions.

 

As far as the crying in the OP, we have only the description we are given. I wonder why so many people assume they know what happened better than the OP. Nobody knows what was going on in that kid's head, but the OP has a better idea than we do since she actually witnessed the incident.

[RanchGirl]

maybe we could change the phrase to "cowboy up". Would that be less emotionally charged for those who reacted strongly to "man up"?

[Sophia]

:iagree:

But then, I'm the mean Mama who told her 4 year old to be tough and get back with the other kids after he had gotten hurt (after a hug and I'm sorry your got hurt). Oh, I also tell my kids if they whine and fuss "No one likes a fussy baby/kid." My kids, oddly enough, are happy, well-adjusted kids who feel confident in their relationship with me and frequently express their emotions.

 

 

When my 16 y.o. was 4, he fell and skinned his knee. I eyeballed it, determined he was fine and told him to shake it off. I turned my back and promptly forgot about it, until a couple minutes later his little voice pipes up "I'm shaking, but it won't come off!" :lol:

 

Like your brother, my 16 y.o. (and now 5 and 4 y.o.'s) have always looked up to their dad and as you said "wanted to be men" just like their dad.

An earlier poster said it may not be possible for someone to stop crying on demand~well in this house, if dh gives my boys that look, it's like magic. The tears stop. Even with the 4 y.o. who challenges every parenting trick I've accrued over the past 16 years. They can and will stop on demand for the one they respect and ime, appreciate being expected to get a grip.

[Mrs Mungo]

Okay, here is my problem. I am a shake-it-off kind of mom. I am not a coddly mom *at all*. So, I guess my problem is-if the attitude presented sounds mean to *me*, it would definitely sound more mean to others in my circle.

[Meriwether]

When my 16 y.o. was 4, he fell and skinned his knee. I eyeballed it, determined he was fine and told him to shake it off. I turned my back and promptly forgot about it, until a couple minutes later his little voice pipes up "I'm shaking, but it won't come off!" :lol:

 

:lol: I could see my 4 yo. doing the same thing!

 

Like your brother, my 16 y.o. (and now 5 and 4 y.o.'s) have always looked up to their dad and as you said "wanted to be men" just like their dad.

An earlier poster said it may not be possible for someone to stop crying on demand~well in this house, if dh gives my boys that look, it's like magic. The tears stop. Even with the 4 y.o. who challenges every parenting trick I've accrued over the past 16 years. They can and will stop on demand for the one they respect and ime, appreciate being expected to get a grip.

:iagree:

[pqr]

maybe we could change the phrase to "cowboy up". Would that be less emotionally charged for those who reacted strongly to "man up"?

 

 

I still fail to see why anyone would have an issue with the term man up. What do we want our boys to grow into? Something other than men?

 

I still like the adage "Boys don't cry".....or "stiff upper lip".....or "don't be a sissy".

 

Yes, extreme pain, genuine emotional distress.....sure tears are justified or at least understandable. Sprained ankle, lost game, bloody nose.....these boys simply need to "man up."

[Joker]

An earlier poster said it may not be possible for someone to stop crying on demand~well in this house, if dh gives my boys that look, it's like magic. The tears stop. Even with the 4 y.o. who challenges every parenting trick I've accrued over the past 16 years. They can and will stop on demand for the one they respect and ime, appreciate being expected to get a grip.

 

I grew up in a home with two brothers - one of which is an athletic director/head football coach. (The other was killed in a car accident) We are not criers in my family. My dad was a cowboy, he trained cutting horses, and I always thought he was the toughest person I ever knew. When I have ever cried in front of others it is not something that can be controlled. It doesn't matter if someone expects me to stop - I can't. There is no look or talk that will make it stop. I need time by myself to get it together or it will just get worse. It was the same for my little brother and I am so glad we had the parents that we did because they didn't just try to make us stop. They knew if we were crying in public then it must be important. This is my problem with this thread - the idea that everyone can stop crying when someone else has deemed it has been long enough or is inappropriate. I don't believe that is always the case.

[Meriwether]

Okay, here is my problem. I am a shake-it-off kind of mom. I am not a coddly mom *at all*. So, I guess my problem is-if the attitude presented sounds mean to *me*, it would definitely sound more mean to others in my circle.

 

Maybe it would sound meaner to others in your circle, but that doesn't mean the OP's Dh was mean. Something about the incident struck her as odd. Odd enough that she would post about it. Maybe she didn't do a good job explaining what was so odd about the crying. Maybe a lot of people got distracted by the term "man up" and assumed her Dh was being mean. Or maybe her Dh was a real jerk and the kid will be scarred for life. I don't have strong feelings about the original post one way or the other, but I would give the OP the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to the conclusion that the Dh was mean.

[CAMom]

I've kept up on reading every post here.:)

 

It's seems like a lot of folks think it's appropriate and acceptable for an 11/12 year old to cry for a decent amount of time over striking out. I can't help but think if a boy that age cries (barring some sort of extenuating circumstances that already had him set up like the death of a loved one) at a call in a baseball game then maybe he's not ready to be on the field?

 

I would also think that over time a ball player would really appreciate a coach who helped him mature past that.

[Sophia]

It was the same for my little brother and I am so glad we had the parents that we did because they didn't just try to make us stop. They knew if we were crying in public then it must be important. This is my problem with this thread - the idea that everyone can stop crying when someone else has deemed it has been long enough or is inappropriate. I don't believe that is always the case.

 

Rest assured that when my oldest son acted as a pall bearer at his best friend's funeral a year and a half ago, the only look my husband gave him was one of compassion. Oddly enough, ds did not and would not cry at the funeral. He cried when we gave him the news, and he cried when he was with their circle of friends, but at the funeral I saw my boy offer a man's comfort to W's mother and sister and other grieving friends. It was so important to him to be able to do that and I really, really, appreciate that he learned at a younger age that there's a time to cry and there's a time to "man up."

[Lilymax]

Rest assured that when my oldest son acted as a pall bearer at his best friend's funeral a year and a half ago, the only look my husband gave him was one of compassion. Oddly enough, ds did not and would not cry at the funeral. He cried when we gave him the news, and he cried when he was with their circle of friends, but at the funeral I saw my boy offer a man's comfort to W's mother and sister and other grieving friends. It was so important to him to be able to do that and I really, really, appreciate that he learned at a younger age that there's a time to cry and there's a time to "man up."

 

I just wanted to say that THAT made me cry...and I am not a crier! I saw my 12 year old "manning up" like that at my grandmother's funeral this summer; offering condolences to others, staying behind at the grave site because he wanted to help shovel the dirt. It just really touches me when boys are brave like your son was.

[Joker]

nm

Edited October 22, 2010 by Horton

[Sophia]

nm

 

I'm sorry.

It was not my intent to upset you or make assumptions about people who cry, but just to posit that it is important for many boys to be able to control their emotions, and they appreciate being helped along in that process.

No one would have thought less of my son if he'd cried at W's funeral, but he didn't want to. He wanted to be a source of strength for that time.

 

Believe me, he's cried buckets since then. :sad:

Edited October 22, 2010 by Sophia

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Wow I'm a little shocked at the responses so far.

As a mom of five boys, I encourage them to not hold in their emotions. I tell them that its okay to cry, that it's okay to be sensitive. I never want them to feel or think that because they are a boy, they aren't allowed to let their emotions out like girls can.

 

My 11 yr old rarely cries. He cried at his last soccer game because he made a goal...for the other team. And then he did something else that gave the other team a penalty kick.

 

Crying is healthy, in my opinion. Whining and throwing a fit...well that's a whole 'nother story. lol

I will always make time for a sincerely upset and crying child though, no matter how trivial I think it is.

[Embassy]

I'm sitting here trying to imagine why not crying at a funeral is a sign of strength. I even asked my dh and he didn't think it was a sign of strength either. What am I missing?

[Sophia]

I'm sitting here trying to imagine why not crying at a funeral is a sign of strength. I even asked my dh and he didn't think it was a sign of strength either. What am I missing?

 

I don't know what you're missing...being a 15 y.o. maybe?

 

People grieve differently. That's the way ds chose to conduct himself on that day. I'm glad he was able to do so.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't feel I'm communicating very well in this thread. But, I'm willing to give it one more shot.

 

I think there is a big difference between being tough and being demeaning. I think treating a 12 year old like a 2 year old is demeaning. I think telling a 12 year old to "stop being a sissy" is also demeaning (not implying that was said in this case, responding to some of the other posts). I think you can be tough and firm without being demeaning.

 

I didn't say the OP's dh was mean, I said given her attitude in the OP, the phrase *came across* as mean. It came across as a eye rolling "omg, can you believe this."

 

Maybe her dh is mean. Maybe the kid is a drama queen. I don't know either of them and can't say. I'm trying to give *both parties* the benefit of the doubt.

 

Once in our scouting group I was taking a photo and said something to make the kids laugh like "everybody say 'Miss Jane has stinky feet!'" One of the girls was *very offended* for Miss Jane. When I deal with groups of kids, I generally learn which ones are more sensitive. I knew which ones I could kid and tease and ones react better to a different approach. Some are huggy, some are not. Some are highly sensitive to criticism, some are not. If somebody felt I had been mean to them, I would want to know because I don't *want* to come across as mean. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he would want to know if he did say "man up" and a lot of people felt that was a demeaning thing to say.

 

I think it's EASY to say "okay guys, let's give Bobby some space to collect himself now. Bobby, pull yourself aside and get it together so that you'll be ready to play again." I think that's just as easy a demeaning turn of phrase like "quit being a sissy." I don't think it's coddling or wimpy to say it the former way. I don't know the OP's dh, exactly what he said or how he said it, I'm not responding to that here. What I am responding to *in this paragraph* is some of the other posts.

 

I hope this explains my position better. I'm a tough mom. The choices are not wimpy vs. mean.

[HRAAB]

I'm sitting here trying to imagine why not crying at a funeral is a sign of strength. I even asked my dh and he didn't think it was a sign of strength either. What am I missing?

 

When my mom died, my younger sister completely (and I mean completely) fell apart. The day of the funeral I promised myself to not cry so that I could be a source of strength and support for my sister. Had I been crying, it wouldn't have helped her. Believe me, I know my sister, and she needed someone to be strong. Also, that day my dad really needed me to be the strong one. So, I took on that role. I'm the oldest, and I did feel I needed to keep it together for others, especially for my dad and sister. I still had plenty of opportunity to cry my eyes out, but I didn't that day. I don't know what that says about me. I'm not sure if it says I'm especially strong person. It was just what I needed to do, and I'm glad I did. Trust me, my children saw me grieve, and they know it's a perfectly natural and healthy emotion. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or something, but I feel there are times when I need to put my personal feelings aside and do what is right for another person.

 

I'm glad there are parents out there who are helping their boys into manhood by toughening them up, so to speak. I want my dd's to find a strong man for a husband. A strong man can cry, but he can also control himself when necessary. During a game, a team activity, is the time to control yourself. Sometimes when I look around me, I think we're turning into a world of wimps. My friend's 13 yr old son was crying over his spelling lessons. No, I don't think that should be allowed to continue.

 

I want a dh who can show emotion, and who knows when not to let it out and can handle the very difficult times life throws you. A 12 yr old boy isn't a man, but he's in training to be one.

[Murphy101]

I've kept up on reading every post here.:)

 

It's seems like a lot of folks think it's appropriate and acceptable for an 11/12 year old to cry for a decent amount of time over striking out. I can't help but think if a boy that age cries (barring some sort of extenuating circumstances that already had him set up like the death of a loved one) at a call in a baseball game then maybe he's not ready to be on the field?

 

I would also think that over time a ball player would really appreciate a coach who helped him mature past that.

 

That's what my dh said. By age 12 they should be able to comprehend that it is a GAME and not important enough to warrant tears.

 

Dh says he doesn't remember any boys that age crying during games over stuff like that when he was a kid that age. Injuries sure. Eyes might have watered a bit over a loss in a major game like for a state championship. They would have gotten in trouble for bad sportsmanship or been deemed too immature to keep playing and that's what the coaches would have said.

[unsinkable]

12 yo boys have different physical and emotional maturity levels. Some boys have already physically begun to look like men while others look like they are still about 9 yo.

 

Wouldn't it make sense that emotional maturity runs from one end to the spectrum to another?

 

I'd hate see another reason why kids drop/leave sports. The older they get, the more kids leave. Why can't we HELP the boys (and girls) grow up on the diamond, the rink, the field?

 

FWIW, I think most any boy is capable of tears during a sporting match. Coaches can help him get over it and move on. Different techniques work with different boys.

 

I think the LAST thing that needs to happen is for another line to be drawn to exclude kids from sports.

 

(And some of the "old school" hockey coaches I know, the oldest dads & the grandpas, the guys who grew up and played in the rough days of getting stitched up without novacaine because it takes too long...those men are the most respectful & understanding of boys who experience of the emotions of the game.)