Rant/hurt/ want christians to learn love instead of judgement

[Joanne]

OP, were you around when my son's hair (a short, reasonable mowhawk) was an issue at the homeschool class organization we were a part of? I posted about it here, got a lot of support, got a few scattered "we wear polos and khakis and have short hair" posts and a few "how you dress speaks to who you are" posts.

 

We are no longer using that organization. ;)

 

That same child, who was judged so harshly by some here, just told his step dad tonight at dinner about the notebook he brought to school (he now attends public school). Another student had a "girly" notebook that caused him to get a great deal of negative attention and teasing. The other student was waiting for Christmas when his family gives school supplies. The young man's parents are apparently very poor and he was using a notebook from his sister. My son, who used to sport that mowhawk, emptied one of his own boy binders and brought it to the student, gave it to him in homeroom saying "Merry Christmas". The student nearly cried, went to his locker and switched his papers. He has few friend and my son invites his to his lunch table (in case you don't know, lunch is huge in public school :D)

 

Ironic. If it weren't so sad, I'd be laughing.

 

I have another one, but I didn't want to highjack your thread. :glare::)

[VBoulden]

I'd like to point out that many Christians wrongly assume that people "fall away" from Christ is because of "compromises" in their lives (in the way they dress, the music they listen to, the people they associate with, etc.) and fail to realize that people actually fall away from Christ because the Christians they knew have became stumbling blocks in their journey toward Christ by being so hurtful, unkind and graceless toward them. I thought of this song:

 

 

[TN Mama]

well yeah.

 

what kind of relationships can we ever have with people who don't take the time to look inside?

 

:iagree::iagree:

[justamouse]

OP, were you around when my son's hair (a short, reasonable mowhawk) was an issue at the homeschool class organization we were a part of? I posted about it here, got a lot of support, got a few scattered "we wear polos and khakis and have short hair" posts and a few "how you dress speaks to who you are" posts.

 

We are no longer using that organization. ;)

 

That same child, who was judged so harshly by some here, just told his step dad tonight at dinner about the notebook he brought to school (he now attends public school). Another student had a "girly" notebook that caused him to get a great deal of negative attention and teasing. The other student was waiting for Christmas when his family gives school supplies. The young man's parents are apparently very poor and he was using a notebook from his sister. My son, who used to sport that mowhawk, emptied one of his own boy binders and brought it to the student, gave it to him in homeroom saying "Merry Christmas". The student nearly cried, went to his locker and switched his papers. He has few friend and my son invites his to his lunch table (in case you don't know, lunch is huge in public school :D)

 

Ironic. If it weren't so sad, I'd be laughing.

 

I have another one, but I didn't want to highjack your thread. :glare::)

 

that is totally making me tear up. give him a hug for me, please? that is just the most awesome kid you have there.

[Nakia]

OP, were you around when my son's hair (a short, reasonable mowhawk) was an issue at the homeschool class organization we were a part of? I posted about it here, got a lot of support, got a few scattered "we wear polos and khakis and have short hair" posts and a few "how you dress speaks to who you are" posts.

 

We are no longer using that organization. ;)

 

That same child, who was judged so harshly by some here, just told his step dad tonight at dinner about the notebook he brought to school (he now attends public school). Another student had a "girly" notebook that caused him to get a great deal of negative attention and teasing. The other student was waiting for Christmas when his family gives school supplies. The young man's parents are apparently very poor and he was using a notebook from his sister. My son, who used to sport that mowhawk, emptied one of his own boy binders and brought it to the student, gave it to him in homeroom saying "Merry Christmas". The student nearly cried, went to his locker and switched his papers. He has few friend and my son invites his to his lunch table (in case you don't know, lunch is huge in public school :D)

 

Ironic. If it weren't so sad, I'd be laughing.

 

I have another one, but I didn't want to highjack your thread. :glare::)

 

Beautiful story, Joanne. Thank you for sharing it with us.

[Denisemomof4]

I have tried to help someone similar...but what the hey, I will bow out of this thread.

 

thank you.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[TN Mama]

OP, were you around when my son's hair (a short, reasonable mowhawk) was an issue at the homeschool class organization we were a part of? I posted about it here, got a lot of support, got a few scattered "we wear polos and khakis and have short hair" posts and a few "how you dress speaks to who you are" posts.

 

We are no longer using that organization. ;)

 

That same child, who was judged so harshly by some here, just told his step dad tonight at dinner about the notebook he brought to school (he now attends public school). Another student had a "girly" notebook that caused him to get a great deal of negative attention and teasing. The other student was waiting for Christmas when his family gives school supplies. The young man's parents are apparently very poor and he was using a notebook from his sister. My son, who used to sport that mowhawk, emptied one of his own boy binders and brought it to the student, gave it to him in homeroom saying "Merry Christmas". The student nearly cried, went to his locker and switched his papers. He has few friend and my son invites his to his lunch table (in case you don't know, lunch is huge in public school :D)

 

Ironic. If it weren't so sad, I'd be laughing.

 

I have another one, but I didn't want to highjack your thread. :glare::)

 

Wow. Love that story! I know you must be proud of the young man you've raised.

[Denisemomof4]

Um....wow. I'm pretty sure that Christ would befriend this young man, go to his house and have dinner with him. I believe He pointed out this type of hypocrisy and judgemental behavior to the Pharisees as being wrong and something we are not to engage in as Christians.

 

 

 

the thing that's funny is that so called Christians like the judgmental person who posted here don't even see their own sin. It's why we have this huge neon sign:

 

HYPOCRITE

 

Yes, I am a Christian.

[sparrow]

I love Jesus and am a born again Christian and also home school but honestly am so tired of judgmental, isolationist, legalistic "Christian" that continue to hurt my son. I am so hurt for him and so tired of all of them. He is totally turning his back on Christianity because of these families.

 

He is a loving, caring, gentle, poetic musical type kids. He loves people but honestly he can't keep "home school" friends because their parent don't approve of him. These aren't little kids but junior and senior kids that can't befriend a fellow 17 yo who is allowed to choose his own music, own hair, and oh gasp he got his tongue pierced. They consider him "evil" a bad influence or whatever.

 

My son likes the skinny jeans and clean t shirts (no evil) advertise on him. He wears his hair with long bangs. He plays guitar and likes heavy mental but he doesn't play music with bad lyrics or messages.

 

He actually has made friends with secular home school kids/family but the families live over a hour from us. I think the irony for all the Christan community is my kids feels more welcome and loved by a group of people that don't believe in Jesus and his message. Then I see what we have put with and now I know why the Christan Message is consider hypocrisy by the world

 

:rant:

 

 

:grouphug: I'm so sorry. I was one of those kids, too. I was the one that wasn't allowed to come over and believe me, this was all based on appearance. If the parents of the kids at my christian school only knew what their kids, the ones that were "ADVERTISING" christian were doing :glare:. It took me a LONG time to find my way back to something that resembles faith. Heck, I'm not quite there yet. I'm pretty much agnostic, much of it because of the judgment I see in certain circles.

 

Your son will find true friendships with people that accept him for who he is, appearances and all. I'm sorry it couldn't be with the locals.

[pqr]

I am not too sure of the Christian connection here, but the way one dresses and comports oneself does say something about that individual.

 

If one chooses to have a piercing then by default one also chooses to make a statement that will be read by others in different ways. I trust that the OP has the son she wishes and loves (and he sounds like a good boy), but he made a decision when he decided to dress in a certain manner, have long hair and punch a hole in his tongue. Why then can a parent, of another child, not make a similar decision that, because of this, he does not want his son to associate with boys who think that such behavior is acceptable? Why are the choices of other parents less valuable than the choices of a parent who allows her son to behave in such a manner? Why are my values less important than someone else's when I say, frankly and without malice, that I would not want my children to associate with a boy who had a tongue ring? Why rant against people like me?

 

We all make our beds and then have to sleep in them. Decisions matter and to complain about what should be obvious consequences to a decision is hardly fair.

 

FWIW I feel very sorry for the boy and wish that he were not hurting as he obviously is, but again choices have consequences.

Edited October 4, 2010 by pqr

[OnTheBrink]

Please encourage your ds...these are not "real" christians...these are white washed tombs, and Jesus had some really strong words for them.

 

 

 

I think deciding these folks are white-washed tombs is just as judgmental as them shunning the OP's son.

 

To the OP: I'm sorry your son's feelings have been hurt. My son adopted a "different" look, too, as a teen, but he never endured any negativity over it (that I know of).

 

I think we Christians get the notion that all other Christians should be at the same level of spiritual maturity we're at, or have the same understanding of Scripture that we have, and when they're not or don't, we're surprised. I'd not go so far as to suggest these people are unsaved, but they certainly have demonstrated a lack of biblical knowledge and godly love. Will they "grow" out of that? It's hard to say. Hopefully, they will!

 

:grouphug:

[Daisy]

 

I think we Christians get the notion that all other Christians should be at the same level of spiritual maturity we're at, or have the same understanding of Scripture that we have, and when they're not or don't, we're surprised. I'd not go so far as to suggest these people are unsaved, but they certainly have demonstrated a lack of biblical knowledge and godly love. Will they "grow" out of that? It's hard to say. Hopefully, they will!

 

:grouphug:

 

Excellent. :iagree:

[Nakia]

I am not too sure of the Christian connection here, but the way one dresses and comports oneself does say something about that individual.

 

If one chooses to have a piercing then by default one also chooses to make a statement that will be read by others in different ways. I trust that the OP has the son she wishes and loves (and he sounds like a good boy), but he made a decision when he decided to dress in a certain manner, have long hair and punch a hole in his tongue. Why then can a parent, of another child, not make a similar decision that, because of this, he does not want his son to associate with boys who think that such behavior is acceptable? Why are the choices of other parents less valuable than the choices of a parent who allows her son to behave in such a manner? Why are my values less important than someone else's when I say, frankly and without malice, that I would not want my children to associate with a boy who had a tongue ring? Why rant against people like me?

 

We all make our beds and then have to sleep in them. Decisions matter and to complain about what should be obvious consequences to a decision is hardly fair.

 

So since I have a nose ring and tattoos, I should accept the "obvious consequence" that people will think that I am not a good enough Christian or choose not to associate with me?

 

And can you please explain why you wouldn't want your children to associate with a boy who has a tongue ring? A logical explanation would be helpful.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

So since I have a nose ring and tattoos, I should accept the "obvious consequence" that people will think that I am not a good enough Christian or choose not to associate with me?

 

And can you please explain why you wouldn't want your children to associate with a boy who has a tongue ring? A logical explanation would be helpful.

 

 

Oh, Sweet Nakia....I was going to send you a lovely PM, but then you reminded me that you are tattooed (how do you spell that?!) and pierced, so....no can do! No Armadilla Coffee Cake for YOU! :tongue_smilie:

[Mimm]

Why then can a parent, of another child, not make a similar decision that, because of this, he does not want his son to associate with boys who think that such behavior is acceptable? Why are the choices of other parents less valuable than the choices of a parent who allows her son to behave in such a manner? Why are my values less important than someone else's when I say, frankly and without malice, that I would not want my children to associate with a boy who had a tongue ring? Why rant against people like me?

 

Because a tongue ring is a fairly superficial reason to shun someone, especially when that type of judgment and shunning is causing someone to turn away from their faith. And from someone who claims to belong to a faith that is supposed to love people unconditionally and look at the heart of a person rather than their outward appearance, it's rather disgusting behavior to refuse to be friends with someone. Over a pierced tongue. I'm really not sure how anyone could feel good about that...

[Nakia]

Oh, Sweet Nakia....I was going to send you a lovely PM, but then you reminded me that you are tattooed (how do you spell that?!) and pierced, so....no can do! No Armadilla Coffee Cake for YOU! :tongue_smilie:

 

Well, you're not even a Christian so I can't even talk to you. So there! :lol:

 

Oh, and guess what I'm getting done to my hair this week? Some kind of funky cut with a stripe of pink or purple color in it! WOOHOO!!!

[LauraGB]

I am not too sure of the Christian connection here, but the way one dresses and comports oneself does say something about that individual.

 

If one chooses to have a piercing then by default one also chooses to make a statement that will be read by others in different ways. I trust that the OP has the son she wishes and loves (and he sounds like a good boy), but he made a decision when he decided to dress in a certain manner, have long hair and punch a hole in his tongue. Why then can a parent, of another child, not make a similar decision that, because of this, he does not want his son to associate with boys who think that such behavior is acceptable? Why are the choices of other parents less valuable than the choices of a parent who allows her son to behave in such a manner? Why are my values less important than someone else's when I say, frankly and without malice, that I would not want my children to associate with a boy who had a tongue ring? Why rant against people like me?

 

We all make our beds and then have to sleep in them. Decisions matter and to complain about what should be obvious consequences to a decision is hardly fair.

 

In a sense, I feel you are absolutely correct. A kid, a teen, makes decisions based on thoughts and feelings they are still sorting out. This makes for some pretty decent character development sans parents if the parents handle it correctly. For instance, when I was in 7th grade, attending a Catholic school, I wanted to shave the side of my head. Luckily for me, my very "manly" father's sister was 18 and attending cosmetology school, and she was kind enough to work that out for me. She also colored the remaining hair orange. When I got home, I was fully expecting to be grounded until it grew out. But my father surprised me by saying that nothing he did could possibly outweigh the ramifications put forth by others. And, he was right. However, that experience (one which I chose and desperately wanted), helped form who and how I am today.

Interestingly enough, the only people who had a problem with my appearance were the "holier" adults I came into contact with; other adults thought it was "gutsy"; the kids either liked it and copied it, or they respected my ability to be "different". This spoke volumes to me about the chasm between old/young, Christian and not. Lifelong lessons learned.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there is a "safe" time during the growing years to test the waters. It's okay. And it's important for adults to understand this. Now, if I was 40 or 50 and still "testing the waters", there might be cause for pause, but at 17? Not so much. (and this is coming from someone who is almost 40 and is only comfortable in solid, muted, classic colors, as bright and geometric make me uneasy ;))

Edited October 4, 2010 by LauraGB

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Well, you're not even a Christian so I can't even talk to you. So there! :lol:

 

 

 

But,....But,....But.....I'M NOT EVEN PIERCED OR TATTED!!! :lol:

[simka2]

I think deciding these folks are white-washed tombs is just as judgmental as them shunning the OP's son.

 

 

 

Um, did you read the rest of the post or just judge that line?

[astrid]

Thank you, Nakia. You never fail to renew my faith in the good.

You are a kind spirit indeed.

 

astrid

[pqr]

And can you please explain why you wouldn't want your children to associate with a boy who has a tongue ring? A logical explanation would be helpful.

 

Logically:

 

Starting from the premise that I would not allow any of my children to get a tongue ring.

 

1. Friends frequently behave in similar a manner. (Guys I had as friends liked similar music, dresses in a similar manner etc.)

2. The OP's son sounds like a good boy, a nice boy, potentially one whose example might lead others to emulate him.

3. While I try to teach my children to ALWAYS think for themselves and act according to their values (our values) the fact is that close contact with a child to behaves in a certain manner or dresses in a certain manner does lead to a certain familiarity. What they now think to be odd or simply wrong can become less so.

4. Teenagers do try to test their limits.

5. Close friendly contact with boys who punch holes in their tongues may lead my children to think that it is acceptable (in our family) or that they too should do that.

6. Such a decision would cause strife in the family.

 

THEREFORE to avoid such unpleasantness I shall keep my children away from close friendships with such boys. Basic parenting as I see it.

 

Obviously it is world's away in behavior but I would also not allow my children to associate with boys who did drugs or were extremely promiscuous because that I also behavior that I do not want to rub off on them.

Edited October 4, 2010 by pqr

[Denisemomof4]

you know what's sad about this thread and the OP's son? They are judged by their appearance and not loved for the great person they are on the inside.

 

I have known more than one teenager with hair too long, piercings, tattoos, whom were just the most gentle and loving souls. My heart breaks for them as I see them judged.

 

Then take the kid who helped put the addition on my home. He's the "model Christian" and his parents are heavily involved in the church and an outreach ministry. This kid is SO nice and sweet......... and then my oldest comes home to tell me how at school he has no friends because he's so nasty, how he's a pothead, how he's a heavy drinker. But at church they have NO CLUE. BUT, he's clean cut and appealing to the conservative Christian's eyes.

 

So maybe it's IS more important to have friends whom are acceptable outside and not inside?:001_huh:

 

We like people for who they ARE, NOT for what they look like.

[Nakia]

Thank you, Nakia. You never fail to renew my faith in the good.

You are a kind spirit indeed.

 

astrid

 

Oh wow, Astrid, that means the world to me. Thank you.

[Daisy]

Well, you're not even a Christian so I can't even talk to you. So there! :lol:

 

[sarcasm]

 

I'm going to start a little black book. Anyone who crosses my path with a nose ring, tongue ring, bangs, skinny jeans, tank top, long hair (boy), short hair (girl), tattoos, open-toed shoes, NUDE (gasp) stockings,.... is getting put on the shun list.

 

OH BROTHER.

 

[/sarcasm]

Edited October 4, 2010 by Daisy

[ThatCyndiGirl]

[sarcasm]

 

I'm going to start a little black book. Anyone who crosses my path with a nose ring, tongue ring, bangs, skinny jeans, tank top, long hair (boy), short hair (girl), tattoos, open-toed shoes, NUDE (gasp) stockings,.... is getting put on the shun list.

 

OH BROTHER.

 

[/sarcasm]

 

 

I sometimes wear red bras, too, which a friend's MIL claims are "whorish". :D

 

(or would that be "Whore-ish"? My speller is broken tonight!)

[Nakia]

Logically:

 

Starting from the premise that I would not allow any of my children to get a tongue ring.

 

1. Friends frequently behave in similar a manner. (Guys I had as friends liked similar music, dresses in a similar manner etc.)

2. The OP's son sounds like a good boy, a nice boy, potentially one whose example might lead others to emulate him.

3. While I try to teach my children to ALWAYS think for themselves and act according to their values (our values) the fact is that close contact with a child to behaves in a certain manner or dresses in a certain manner does lead to a certain familiarity. What they now think to be odd or simply wrong can become less so.

4. Teenagers do try to test their limits.

5. Close friendly contact with boys who punch holes in their tongues may lead my children to think that it is acceptable (in our family) or that they too should do that.

6. Such a decision would cause strife in the family.

 

THEREFORE to avoid such unpleasantness I shall keep my children away from close friendships with such boys. Basic parenting as I see it.

 

Obviously it is world's away in behavior but I would also not allow my children to associate with boys who did drugs or were extremely promiscuous because that I also behavior that I do not want to rub off on them.

 

Thanks for the explanation, but yeah, I still don't get it. Of course, you have to right to raise your children as you see fit. I would hate to think they would miss out on an opportunity to meet some pretty amazing people who are crazy about Christ just because they have something pierced. BTW, does that apply to earrings too?

 

I want my children to think for themselves too, but I want to think with the mind of Christ.

[Denisemomof4]

Because a tongue ring is a fairly superficial reason to shun someone, especially when that type of judgment and shunning is causing someone to turn away from their faith. And from someone who claims to belong to a faith that is supposed to love people unconditionally and look at the heart of a person rather than their outward appearance, it's rather disgusting behavior to refuse to be friends with someone. Over a pierced tongue. I'm really not sure how anyone could feel good about that...

:hurray:

 

my son was asked to be the role model for the youth at our church. THEN he went into public school and was bullied because of how he dressed and his SHORT hair. The pastor and his wife publicly shunned my son. It caused him so much pain that this once ON FIRE young Christian man has turned his back on God and his faith. He also has an EXTREMELY bad opinion of ALL Christians.

 

 

That same pastor's wife wore jeans SO TIGHT to church, pretty much every week, that they looked like nylons. She openly criticized ds's baggy jeans.:001_huh:

[simka2]

[sarcasm]I'm going to start a little black book. Anyone who crosses my path with a nose ring, tongue ring, bangs, skinny jeans, tank top, long hair (boy), short hair (girl), tattoos, open-toed shoes, NUDE (gasp) stockings,.... is getting put on the shun list.

 

OH BROTHER.[/sarcasm]

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: Guaged ears, brightly colored hair, black nail polish, leather studded jewelry....

 

hmmm what else could we add?

 

Thanks, Daisy I needed a laugh!!!!

[Mimm]

[sarcasm]I'm going to start a little black book. Anyone who crosses my path with a nose ring, tongue ring, bangs, skinny jeans, tank top, long hair (boy), short hair (girl), tattoos, open-toed shoes, NUDE (gasp) stockings,.... is getting put on the shun list.

 

OH BROTHER.[/sarcasm]

 

What about multiple piercings in the ear? And what about non-visible tattoos (always covered by clothing)? I need to know if I'm on the shun list. Also, I must confess, I wear flip flops and once.. *gulp* I had bangs. But I'm a woman, are bangs only non-Christian on boys? And how long does the hair have to be to qualify as bangs? And who decides these things? ;)

[astrid]

Oh wow, Astrid, that means the world to me. Thank you.

 

 

Welllll......I wrote that before I read your post further down in which you admitted to the nose ring and tatts, so, um, I take it back.

Now stop talking to me. I'm not supposed to associate with your kind, or those who make choices such as yours. :D:D

 

JUST KIDDING!!! I couldn't resist! :lol:

 

I mean every word!

 

astrid

[Denisemomof4]

Well, you're not even a Christian so I can't even talk to you. So there! :lol:

 

Oh, and guess what I'm getting done to my hair this week? Some kind of funky cut with a stripe of pink or purple color in it! WOOHOO!!!

 

oh, Nakia, are you aware that there is no ice available in the fiery pit? :lol::lol::lol: I used to have a punk rock hairdo and wild, glimmery eyes. Now I'm an old lady. :p

[Nakia]

Welllll......I wrote that before I read your post further down in which you admitted to the nose ring and tatts, so, um, I take it back.

Now stop talking to me. I'm not supposed to associate with your kind, or those who make choices such as yours. :D:D

 

JUST KIDDING!!! I couldn't resist! :lol:

 

I mean every word!

 

astrid

 

:lol: I heart you!

[Daisy]

I sometimes wear red bras, too, which a friend's MIL claims are "whorish". :D

 

(or would that be "Whore-ish"? My speller is broken tonight!)

 

GASP. Will I be SEEING this red bra? If I see it, you are definitely on the LIST. However, what I don't know won't offend me (I guess, unless I'm making stuff up just to have a reason to shun you).

[justasque]

[ETA: In the time it took me to compose this, the thread has *way* moved on. So ignore me if you like and carry on!]

 

The way we dress, how we decorate our bodies and the music we listen to are all advertisements for who we are. When mixed messages are sent, usually mixed results are received.

 

From what you have said, your son is a believer and is not just coming to Christ. You are upset with other Christians because they will not look past his outside advertising.

 

This will not only impact him among Christians, but will also impact him in all other areas of life including jobs. In general people believe you are who you say you are by your advertising, by your actions, and least by your words.

.....

Only God can look inside. The rest of us just call a tree by its fruit.

.....

Do you know what the function of the tongue ring is? I am sure the teenager does. Do you think he ended up with secular friends instead of Christian friends solely by chance?

 

In your post and in the OP many Christians were judged for protecting their children or themselves.

.....

I have tried to help someone similar...but what the hey, I will bow out of this thread.

 

I am a little uncomfortable with some of this thread.

 

I think Mama Geek was just being honest in her comments. As I hear it, she was saying that some folks would be scared to have their dc hang out with the op's, because of their fear that he might be involved in things the parents wouldn't approve of (heavy metal music), or because of their fear that he might be gay (at least that's how I interpreted the tongue ring thing), both fears based on his appearance, giving them concerns that he would lead their own children astray in one way or another. As far as it goes, I think she is right about their fears. If these folks know mainly people who are just like themselves, they are nervous about people who are different. It's an old story, and a sad one, but there it is.

 

The sad/ironic thing is that the op's main concern, as I hear it, is that the shunning is likely to lead her ds away from his faith, rather than him leading the other kids away as their parents fear. Meanwhile, in this thread where most of the posters seem to be anti-shunning, some have been unwelcoming to Mama Geek, so that she may be feeling, well, shunned! No answers here, just sadness that this kind of thing is so difficult.

 

OP, I know you didn't post looking for advice. But please assure your son that It Gets Better. Please take the time to drive him where you have to so he can hang out with friends who are a positive influence in his life, even if it takes a lot of time. (Books on tape are your friend!) Help your son understand that sometimes it's the right time to bend a little to fit in with the group, and sometimes it's absolutely not and if the group isn't willing to bend to accept him, then there is always another group to be found, even if you have to drive a bit to get to them.

Edited October 4, 2010 by askPauline

[Joanne]

[color=black

Obviously it is world's away in behavior but I would also not allow my children to associate with boys who did drugs or were extremely promiscuous because that I also behavior that I do not want to rub off on them.

 

 

Style is not behavior.

 

Style is not character.

 

Style communicates nothing, in and of itself, about the quality, kindness, faith, integrity or spirituality of a person.

 

Your comparison is awful and not pertinent.

[DianeW88]

I sometimes wear red bras, too, which a friend's MIL claims are "whorish". :D

 

(or would that be "Whore-ish"? My speller is broken tonight!)

 

Oh my goodness....I have a red bra and I NEVER wear nylon stockings. Where does that leave me??? :lol:

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[Nakia]

[sarcasm]

 

I'm going to start a little black book. Anyone who crosses my path with a nose ring, tongue ring, bangs, skinny jeans, tank top, long hair (boy), short hair (girl), tattoos, open-toed shoes, NUDE (gasp) stockings,.... is getting put on the shun list.

 

OH BROTHER.

 

[/sarcasm]

 

Don't forget bikinis. No real Christian woman would ever wear a bikini. :glare:

[Daisy]

What about multiple piercings in the ear? And what about non-visible tattoos (always covered by clothing)? I need to know if I'm on the shun list. Also, I must confess, I wear flip flops and once.. *gulp* I had bangs. But I'm a woman, are bangs only non-Christian on boys? And how long does the hair have to be to qualify as bangs? And who decides these things? ;)

 

Well, personally I'm offended by all bangs but I suppose that really might be overkill. :lol: So I guess only bangs on boys.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

When we encounter people who "do things differently" or who even (gasp!) live in a way that is counter to our values we use it as a teaching moment.

 

Years ago my oldest daughter heard me say many times that I can't imagine ever wanting a tattoo. (I change my mind so much that I can't think of anything I'd want to have on me for the rest of my life, so it's not a judgment call, it's basic indecision.) She misunderstood me and thought that I was anti-tat. I'm not. So, fast forward to when our state was deciding to finally pass legislation making tattoo parlors LEGAL. DD stated that 'they shouldn't do that'. I told her that I actually thought that they SHOULD make them legal and that just because *I* don't want one doesn't mean that I think other people should make the same choice and that I think legalizing it is a good way to regulate it. It was a good discussion.

 

It doesn't always mean that they see it then do it. Sometimes it just gives them food for thought.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Logically:

 

Starting from the premise that I would not allow any of my children to get a tongue ring.

 

1. Friends frequently behave in similar a manner. (Guys I had as friends liked similar music, dresses in a similar manner etc.)

2. The OP's son sounds like a good boy, a nice boy, potentially one whose example might lead others to emulate him.

3. While I try to teach my children to ALWAYS think for themselves and act according to their values (our values) the fact is that close contact with a child to behaves in a certain manner or dresses in a certain manner does lead to a certain familiarity. What they now think to be odd or simply wrong can become less so.

4. Teenagers do try to test their limits.

5. Close friendly contact with boys who punch holes in their tongues may lead my children to think that it is acceptable (in our family) or that they too should do that.

6. Such a decision would cause strife in the family.

 

THEREFORE to avoid such unpleasantness I shall keep my children away from close friendships with such boys. Basic parenting as I see it.

 

question for you... what would you do if a close friend (of yours or of your children) - someone you were already on great terms with, trusted, enjoyed spending time with, etc etc etc (you get where i'm taking that) went out and got a body mod/etc that you disagreed with?

 

would you maintain the friendship?

[Mrs Mungo]

Logically:

 

Starting from the premise that I would not allow any of my children to get a tongue ring.

 

1. Friends frequently behave in similar a manner. (Guys I had as friends liked similar music, dresses in a similar manner etc.)

2. The OP's son sounds like a good boy, a nice boy, potentially one whose example might lead others to emulate him.

3. While I try to teach my children to ALWAYS think for themselves and act according to their values (our values) the fact is that close contact with a child to behaves in a certain manner or dresses in a certain manner does lead to a certain familiarity. What they now think to be odd or simply wrong can become less so.

4. Teenagers do try to test their limits.

5. Close friendly contact with boys who punch holes in their tongues may lead my children to think that it is acceptable (in our family) or that they too should do that.

6. Such a decision would cause strife in the family.

 

THEREFORE to avoid such unpleasantness I shall keep my children away from close friendships with such boys. Basic parenting as I see it.

 

Obviously it is world's away in behavior but I would also not allow my children to associate with boys who did drugs or were extremely promiscuous because that I also behavior that I do not want to rub off on them.

 

If your 17 year old has yet to understand that different families have different values, then you're probably right, they probably still need the strict eye a parent might apply to a small child.

[Daisy]

Oh my goodness....I have a red bra and I NEVER wear nylon stockings. Where does that leave me??? :lol:

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

 

Bare legs?

 

:svengo:

[Mimm]

:hurray:

 

my son was asked to be the role model for the youth at our church. THEN he went into public school and was bullied because of how he dressed and his SHORT hair. The pastor and his wife publicly shunned my son. It caused him so much pain that this once ON FIRE young Christian man has turned his back on God and his faith. He also has an EXTREMELY bad opinion of ALL Christians.

 

 

That same pastor's wife wore jeans SO TIGHT to church, pretty much every week, that they looked like nylons. She openly criticized ds's baggy jeans.:001_huh:

 

That's tragic, I'm so sorry. :( I grew up in Southern Baptist churches, and haven't attended church in a while. I still consider myself a Christian, but I struggle with my faith. Moreso when I read about things like what Christians are putting the OP's son through. Over a pierced tongue and the "wrong" haircut. It's just heartbreaking to me.

[pqr]

Of course, you have to right to raise your children as you see fit. .

 

....and that is my point. People are being mocked simply because their beliefs do not conform to the choices made by a 17 year old boy.

 

I care not what music he likes, or how many holes he punches in his anatomy but I do care how close that comes to my children. He can make his choices and while I may disagree I do not hate him and will not mock him (as a poster mentioned his body modification is fairly benign and reversible), as an adult I would associate with him and take him for what he is......but I do not want my children associating with him.

 

Why are his choices acceptable but mine not so?

[astrid]

I heart you too. I might get a tattoo with your name on it! :D

 

Oh. Wait. Bad choice. :-)

 

 

To the OP: I do apologize if it seems I"m making light of your dear son's troubles. I am filled with sympathy, and to be honest, downright ANGER that he's being treated this way by Christians. Some of the posts in this thread just strike me as so ridiculous I have to laugh. Inside, though, I"m seething with outrage on your behalf. :confused:

 

astrid

[Joanne]

....and that is my point.

 

.....but I do not want my children associating with him.

 

Why are his choices acceptable but mine not so?

 

Because your choices are judgment and behavoir.

 

His choices are cosmetic expression of style and do not offer any accurate connection to the person he is or how he behaves, thinking or operates.

[Nakia]

oh, Nakia, are you aware that there is no ice available in the fiery pit? :lol::lol::lol: I used to have a punk rock hairdo and wild, glimmery eyes. Now I'm an old lady. :p

 

You crack me up! I guess I will just have to rely on my salvation to get into heaven, you know, like the bible says? :D

 

And you are not an old lady. I got my first tattoo at 30, and this past spring when I got my nose pierced, my then 9 year old was horrified because, as she said, I am way to old and uncool for that. So basically, I am just doing all this to embarrass my children. :lol::lol::lol:

[pqr]

If your 17 year old has yet to understand that different families have different values, then you're probably right, they probably still need the strict eye a parent might apply to a small child.

 

 

The children understand well, perhaps that is why they would also choose not to associate with individuals who make such choices, or is that also unacceptable behavior? (I doubt that my influence would be required)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Daisy, I don't know you well enough to show you my underthings. :tongue_smilie:

 

Dianne: A RED BRA AND BARE LEGS?!?! :svengo:

 

Why, be still, my innocent little heart! :001_huh:

[Mimm]

I am a little uncomfortable with some of this thread.

 

I think Mama Geek was just being honest in her comments. As I hear it, she was saying that some folks would be scared to have their dc hang out with the op's, because of their fear that he might be involved in things the parents wouldn't approve of (heavy metal music), or because of their fear that he might be gay (at least that's how I interpreted the tongue ring thing), both fears based on his appearance, giving them concerns that he would lead their own children astray in one way or another. As far as it goes, I think she is right about their fears. If these folks know mainly people who are just like themselves, they are nervous about people who are different. It's an old story, and a sad one, but there it is.

 

 

 

Am I really understanding you correctly? You think a parent would be justified in fearing that by hanging around a potentially gay teenager that their own teenager might become gay? (I'm not even going to comment on the whole concept that pierced tongue= homosexuality.) I'm very sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here...