How old was/is your dc when they entered 5th grade AND 2nd grade?

[twoxcell]

My ds is just starting 2nd grade and he is 7 years, and 1 month.

[LisaKinVA]

But SOMEBODY is going to have to be the youngest kid in the class by definition. First it was the late fall birthday kids being "red shirted" (as most probably should be). Then the early fall birthday kids started doing it. Then the summer birthday kids. Now you're telling me the spring birthday kids are doing it? Where does the insanity end? :confused:

 

I think you're confused because all states and even some school districts may have different cut-off dates. In CA, with a December 2nd cut-off, late fall birthdays are routinely red-shirted, possibly some early fall, but probably not Summer.

 

Cut-off dates in schools vary wildly from Jan 1st in Hawaii to December 30th, with all sorts of dates ranging from July 1, to Aug 15, 31, Sept 1, 15, Oct. 1, 15, and Nov. 30 And then there are states with no state-wide designation leaving that up to individual school districts (PA, NY, MA, NH to name a few)

 

Until all states have the same "standardized" cut-off dates, you can't say that red-shirting standards in one state are "out of line." They may be unheard of where you are at, but be the norm in that region, based upon that region's cut-off.

 

In CA, the cut off is Dec. 2nd. I have a Dec. 30th b-day, always the oldest in my class. My mom has a Nov. 27 b-day, always the very youngest in her class (to this day, I wish I had been grade-skipped -- and my mom wishes she had been held back... we are both very different personalities).

 

Additionally, most colleges we are looking at will look at a pool of VA students differently than a pool of CA students -- CA and VA are different states, with different standards, etc. VA students are compared first against other VA students for acceptance, not against a nationwide pool.

 

So, who gets into College A from VA may be entirely different from someone getting into that same college from CA or AR (in the '80s my dh was told that the *only* shot he'd have getting into Princeton from AR is if he were a minority, it had nothing to do with how he looked on paper, and the main reason he got into the Academies was because he was from AR, and the pool of applicants was so small).

 

I'm really not worried about CA, MA, AR, IN, or HI state's cut-off and when/how students are red-shirted there, I'm worried about MY state -- the pool of kids MY child is going to be competing with for college entrance and scholarship money.

 

And, in my state, the cut off is in Sept. -- and my boys are routinely compared to children who are a full year older than them. That year makes a huge difference all the way around. It is noticeable.

 

While someone is *always* going to be the youngest, there is a BIG difference in being youngest by days, with the average child right at the mean age -- and being the youngest child below the mean by 6-11 months.

[homeschooltoone]

My 5th grader will be 10 years and 6 months when we start in September.

[Sasharowan]

dd is starting 5th at 10y 11m. She has a Sept. birthday and missed the cutoff by days. Since we had medical issues, we went ahead and held her back. She is fairly old for 5th, but not the oldest we have met. 2nd grade we started at 7.5, 7y 11m, and 7y 3m.

[Elizabeth in WA]

My kids have always lived in districts with a Sept 1 cut-off across 3 states (PA, NJ, & WA) and are in the grades they would be in based on that except for my ds12 who was skipped over 2nd grade in public school. Since my kids have spent half their time in public school, he has stayed with his grade skip and was in the same math class as his older brother when they were last in public school in 6th grade. Now that we home school again, I just teach the two of them together, although ds14 will diverge to Running Start (dual enrollment at the local cc) when he goes into 11th grade, and ds12 may not be old enough, depending on exact quarter dates, to follow the next year as they have to be 16 by the end of their first quarter in Running Start as well as in 11th or 12th grade in our current state to participate in Running Start.

[SABE]

My son who just started 2nd grade is 7 years 10 months. He misses our state's cutoff by 1 month.

[Amber in AUS]

My DD will be 6y 7m when she begins 2nd.

[Capt_Uhura]

I do think the issue is the varying cut off dates. What happens to kids who move from state to state a lot? Compare a state w/ a Dec cut off to a state with a July cutoff. In my friend's state w/ a July cut off, there were no kids w/ June and July birthdays! Whereas over half my son's class had kids w/ sept-dec birthdays. That's a significant gap. And the curriculum and content between the two states reflected this age difference I believe. Here there is very little red-shirting. THe parents are celebrating the end to paying day care or pre-K so you had kids w/ Nov birthdays that were still crying for mommy more than half-way through the year and looked/acted like a 4yr old. Then you had kids w/ Dec-Jan birthdays turning 6. Huge gap in skills.

 

OT;

The Principal once remarked that they have multi-age classes when we were discussing differentiation and letting kids move ahead at their pace. Yes, they do have multi-age classes but the same curriculum is taught to everyone at the same pace. Some kids should move slower b/c of the age/maturity and others should move faster.

[mom2att]

But SOMEBODY is going to have to be the youngest kid in the class by definition. First it was the late fall birthday kids being "red shirted" (as most probably should be). Then the early fall birthday kids started doing it. Then the summer birthday kids. Now you're telling me the spring birthday kids are doing it? Where does the insanity end? :confused:

 

Perhaps it's time to re-organize schools such that the cohort of winter & spring birthday kids start in the fall semester and the cohort of summer & fall birthday kids start in the spring semester. No more "red shirting" unless there's a legitimate reason like a disability.

 

Funny to be having this discussion on a homeschool board, where in most cases "grade" is just a number . . .

 

I think the problem has arisen from increasingly higher standards in the public schools. When I was in kindergarten, we went for half a day, playing games, learning to tie our shoes, singing songs . . . these days kids are in K from 8 - 3, sitting at desks with pencil and paper and a list of sight words to learn each week. Ask any seasoned teacher--K is the new 1st grade. And whether the cut-off is January or July, there are going to be some kids ready for that kind of work and some who are not. As long as we continue to give parents the authority to decide whether their child is "ready," we will see great discrepancies in the ages of kids beginning school.

 

But what's the other option? Take it completely out of the hands of the parents, disallow "red-shirting," and say all kids must begin K by X date, ready or not? Obviously then we have a lot of kids NOT ready, so the school's solution is to hold them back a year and make them do K twice. Not the better option, in my opinion, though there are plenty of school districts who would love to remove parents from this equation.

 

In the end it doesn't matter. I have no idea when my current, grown-up friends started kindergarten and/or graduated from high school, nor do I care. I'm also very glad to be homeschooling, where it really doesn't matter, anyway!

[1GirlTwinBoys]

My DD starting 2nd this year is 7 yrs 5 mths.

[SamanthaBea]

My ds was 7y 3m when he started 2nd and is 10y 3 m starting 5th now. When he was in public school, he was always one of the youngest in his class. There was quite a bit of redshirting going on, I'm sure.

[lakerks]

Both children have late August birthdays, so 10 years 0 months for 5th grade and 7 years 0 months for 2nd grade.

[Splash]

2nd grade:

#1 7yrs 6 months

#2 7yrs 10 months

#3 8yrs 4 months (dyslexic so waited a year to start school)

#4 7yrs 0 months

 

So 5th grade

#1 10yrs 6 months

#2 10 yrs 10 months

#3 11 yrs 4months

#4 not there yet

[branycbur]

My dd is entering grade 5 this year, she is 10 years and 3 months.

[melmichigan]

My oldest DD was a 5th grader last year. She was 9y 10m at the start of the PS year, so she was 6y 10m at the start of 2nd.

 

My twins are 7y 8m and would be starting 2nd if in public school.

 

My DS will be 7y 5m when he starts 2nd.

 

My youngest will be 7y 7m when he starts 2nd.

 

So all of mine could have been/be started a year later according to the law here, with my oldest able to wait 2 years if we had chosen. In our state this is some of the biggest problem in the school system. You can have a child almost turning 7 in K with a child who is not yet 5. That is one heck of a gap at that age.

[AngelaNYC]

........2nd......5th

 

Dd1 .6y10m...9y10m

Dd2 .7y1m .. 10y1m

Ds .. 7y6m ...10y6m

[Haiku]

Both of my kids were/will be 7 years, 6 months old when the public schools began second grade. They will each be 10 years, 6 months when the public schools begin fifth grade. (We school year-round, so when they start each grade at home isn't as applicable to us.)

 

Tara

[Mom in High Heels]

Indy has a late July birthday and was 7 years 2 weeks when he stated 2nd grade. When he gets to 5th he'll be 10 years 2 weeks. We always start our new year 2 weeks after his birthday. He'll be 17 still when he graduates high school.

[FriedClams]

I have one with an October birthday and one with a June birthday.

 

October - started 2nd at 6 years, 9 months (we count it as Aug to start), will start 5th at 9 years 9 months

 

June - started 2nd at 7 years, 2 months and then will start 5th at 10 years, 2 months

 

I technically started October kid as a 1st at 6 years, then the progress was just so ridiculous is was cruel to hold them back and make them do 3rd grade as an 8 year old. Basically 1st and 2nd were in 1 year.

[LisaKinVA]

Funny to be having this discussion on a homeschool board, where in most cases "grade" is just a number . . .

 

I think the problem has arisen from increasingly higher standards in the public schools. When I was in kindergarten, we went for half a day, playing games, learning to tie our shoes, singing songs . . . these days kids are in K from 8 - 3, sitting at desks with pencil and paper and a list of sight words to learn each week. Ask any seasoned teacher--K is the new 1st grade.

 

:iagree: It is pretty funny to have this discussion -- as most of us will meet our child where they are anyhow. My children have all been more than ready academically -- but my boys have not been "ready" physically or emotionally. I made accommodations to his education that would NOT be made in a public or private school classroom around here.

 

But, many, many parents looking at their child feel unsure about what is best. While the in the end (post graduate) may not matter as much, the decisions we make can have a profound impact on how they not only feel about "school," but about themselves.

 

Sure, my oldest will in all likelihood have more than met the basic requirements for graduation by the time he's 17, but that doesn't mean he'll be ready to leave home and go to college. To the outsiders there will not be any real difference in what happens, but for us -- we are planning an extra year at home than the strict interpretation of his birthdate would require.

 

That allows him flexibility to grow at his timetable, instead of potentially facing the issues that have plagued my mother all of her life (at least when she looks back at school -- especially Jr./Sr. high).

 

If he is truly ready to go off to college at 17, we won't stand in his way -- but we will not be pushing him out the door because we've reached some fairly arbitrary determination that he *should* graduate.

 

FTR, my son is currently working an average of 2 years ahead in all subject matter. But you can tell that as the cognitive requirements increase he simply isn't up to that level of thinking yet. Putting him into a 9th grade lit analysis class would be the "next" logical step in his sequence, but his maturity level simply isn't there. Some children working at this level wouldn't have an issue, he does. He doesn't like to "intuit" because he's afraid of being wrong (he's been like that his whole life). Putting him into a situation that will cause him to struggle needlessly (stretching, with mild frustration because it's not too easy fine -- but not so frustrating he becomes certain he's dumb and gives up) is no more right than making him do K work when he was 5 despite his ability to read chapter books, write in cursive, and easily handle 3rd grade math.

 

In the end it doesn't matter. I have no idea when my current, grown-up friends started kindergarten and/or graduated from high school, nor do I care. I'm also very glad to be homeschooling, where it really doesn't matter, anyway!

 

So true -- I suppose it only matters to me because I hear very strident talk about my son "not being young" for his grade (despite overwhelming local evidence to the contrary), which has made me feel "wrong" about my child. Comparisons are made. Some parents may have an easier time shoving those opinions aside -- others find those opinions generate so much self-doubt it can become a somewhat consuming issue.

 

For us, we made the decision to add another year into our planning for our oldest son. He is aware of this decision and is looking forward to the changes we have planned. It is not something we will be discussing with a lot of people, simply because I know things may change and don't want to lock my son into any 7-8 year plan.

[patchfire]

Second:

7y0m

7y5m (projected)

7y9m (projected)

 

Fifth:

10y0m

10y5m (projected)

10y9m (projected)

[Ellie]

If my dc had been in school, they would have been 10 and 7 going into 5th and 2nd grades. Their birthdays are in May; the cut-off date in California is December 2.

 

My brother would have been 8, because his birthday is October 2 and the cut-off date in South Carolina is October 1. Yup. Even though he was one day past the cut-off. My other brother would also have been 8, because his birthday is September 25 and the cut-off date is September 1.

 

As hsers, grade level is irrelevant for practical purposes; however, my very strong recommendation is that when it's necessary to choose a grade- level designation, it should be the one a child would be in if he were in school, according to his birthday and the cut-off date in the state where he lives. And he should be "in first grade" the year he turns 6--IOW, not kindergarten.

[Mommamia]

Funny to be having this discussion on a homeschool board, where in most cases "grade" is just a number . . .

 

.....In the end it doesn't matter. I have no idea when my current, grown-up friends started kindergarten and/or graduated from high school, nor do I care. I'm also very glad to be homeschooling, where it really doesn't matter, anyway!

 

:iagree:

[Mommamia]

As hsers, grade level is irrelevant for practical purposes; however, my very strong recommendation is that when it's necessary to choose a grade- level designation, it should be the one a child would be in if he were in school, according to his birthday and the cut-off date in the state where he lives. And he should be "in first grade" the year he turns 6--IOW, not kindergarten.

 

My boys would not have been emotionally ready for 1st grade at 6. Another thing to think about- We have lived in different states, with different cut off dates.....so the average age for each grade has changed from state to state.

 

Regardless, I'm very glad that my dc started K at 6, which means that they started 2nd at 8.

[Spock]

Including months (like 10 years, 10 months or whatever). You can use different children for the two grades; just trying to get an average and figure out if my dc are old or young for their grades. Thanks!

 

We start school in July, so my children would all have been a month or two older in most schools.

 

 

• Oldest: 6 yrs 8 mo for 2nd grade; 9 yrs 8 mo for 5th [would not have made the local cut off for these grades]

• Second: 7 yrs 5 mo for 2nd; 10 yrs 5 mo for 5th

• Third: 6 yrs 11 mo for 2nd grade; 9 yrs 10 mo for 5th

• Fourth: 7yrs 7 mo for 2nd; will be 10 yrs 7mo for 5th (currently 7 weeks into 3rd grade).

Locally, children start first grade if they turn 6 on or before Oct. 12. This is state law for public schools, and most private schools also follow this guideline. So, most 2nd graders will be 7 when they start the school year, and will turn 8 at some point between late October and the start of the next school year. The younger 2nd graders will not turn 7 until after school has started.

[Lostinabook]

dc1 5th--10y & 10 mo; 2nd--7 y & 10 mo

 

dc2 5th--10y & 3 mo; 2nd--7y & 3 mo

[Donna T.]

2nd grade -

7 years, 4 months

7 years, 3 months

 

5th grade -

10 years, 4 months

[zaichiki]

Including months (like 10 years, 10 months or whatever). You can use different children for the two grades; just trying to get an average and figure out if my dc are old or young for their grades. Thanks!

 

I think most school districts in the US now have age cutoff dates for the beginning of school: 5 yrs old by Sept. 1st or whenever Kindergarten starts. Therefore they'd have to be 10 by Sept for 5th grade and 7 by Sept for 2nd grade.

 

I have two kids with March birthdates, so they're both at the exact midpoint for their age/grade (half of the kids are older than they are and half are younger). Two of my kids have late fall/early winter birthdates, and they'd be older than three-fourths of the kids in their age/grade.

[leseve]

Mine started 5th and 2nd last Monday. They are almost 10yrs 9 months, and 7 yrs 8 months.

[Mandy in TN]

But SOMEBODY is going to have to be the youngest kid in the class by definition. First it was the late fall birthday kids being "red shirted" (as most probably should be). Then the early fall birthday kids started doing it. Then the summer birthday kids. Now you're telling me the spring birthday kids are doing it? Where does the insanity end? :confused:

 

Perhaps it's time to re-organize schools such that the cohort of winter & spring birthday kids start in the fall semester and the cohort of summer & fall birthday kids start in the spring semester. No more "red shirting" unless there's a legitimate reason like a disability.

I understand what you are saying and I certainly don't hold my children back academically (regardless of what grade I report them as being), but as Lisa said different states have different cut-off dates. I believe that the current cut-off in TN for the public school is Sept.30, but there is always some legislation trying to move it to Aug. Some of the private schools in our area have already moved their cut-offs to Aug and one even has a July cut-off. I would never want to give the state the authority to dictate when a child must start school.

 

I think you're confused because all states and even some school districts may have different cut-off dates. In CA, with a December 2nd cut-off, late fall birthdays are routinely red-shirted, possibly some early fall, but probably not Summer.

 

Cut-off dates in schools vary wildly from Jan 1st in Hawaii to December 30th, with all sorts of dates ranging from July 1, to Aug 15, 31, Sept 1, 15, Oct. 1, 15, and Nov. 30 And then there are states with no state-wide designation leaving that up to individual school districts (PA, NY, MA, NH to name a few)

 

Until all states have the same "standardized" cut-off dates, you can't say that red-shirting standards in one state are "out of line." They may be unheard of where you are at, but be the norm in that region, based upon that region's cut-off.

 

In CA, the cut off is Dec. 2nd. I have a Dec. 30th b-day, always the oldest in my class. My mom has a Nov. 27 b-day, always the very youngest in her class (to this day, I wish I had been grade-skipped -- and my mom wishes she had been held back... we are both very different personalities).

 

Additionally, most colleges we are looking at will look at a pool of VA students differently than a pool of CA students -- CA and VA are different states, with different standards, etc. VA students are compared first against other VA students for acceptance, not against a nationwide pool.

 

So, who gets into College A from VA may be entirely different from someone getting into that same college from CA or AR (in the '80s my dh was told that the *only* shot he'd have getting into Princeton from AR is if he were a minority, it had nothing to do with how he looked on paper, and the main reason he got into the Academies was because he was from AR, and the pool of applicants was so small).

 

I'm really not worried about CA, MA, AR, IN, or HI state's cut-off and when/how students are red-shirted there, I'm worried about MY state -- the pool of kids MY child is going to be competing with for college entrance and scholarship money.

 

And, in my state, the cut off is in Sept. -- and my boys are routinely compared to children who are a full year older than them. That year makes a huge difference all the way around. It is noticeable.

 

While someone is *always* going to be the youngest, there is a BIG difference in being youngest by days, with the average child right at the mean age -- and being the youngest child below the mean by 6-11 months.

:iagree:Where all this comes into play is college admissions. My oldest didn't graduate until just after his 19th birthday, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't taking dual enrollment classes while still registered as a high schooler. These classes just made him look more attractive to colleges.

 

Funny to be having this discussion on a homeschool board, where in most cases "grade" is just a number . . .

 

I think the problem has arisen from increasingly higher standards in the public schools. When I was in kindergarten, we went for half a day, playing games, learning to tie our shoes, singing songs . . . these days kids are in K from 8 - 3, sitting at desks with pencil and paper and a list of sight words to learn each week. Ask any seasoned teacher--K is the new 1st grade. And whether the cut-off is January or July, there are going to be some kids ready for that kind of work and some who are not. As long as we continue to give parents the authority to decide whether their child is "ready," we will see great discrepancies in the ages of kids beginning school.

 

But what's the other option? Take it completely out of the hands of the parents, disallow "red-shirting," and say all kids must begin K by X date, ready or not? Obviously then we have a lot of kids NOT ready, so the school's solution is to hold them back a year and make them do K twice. Not the better option, in my opinion, though there are plenty of school districts who would love to remove parents from this equation.

 

In the end it doesn't matter. I have no idea when my current, grown-up friends started kindergarten and/or graduated from high school, nor do I care. I'm also very glad to be homeschooling, where it really doesn't matter, anyway!

When they are registered as in 2nd and 5th, it doesn't matter. All through elementary school it doesn't matter as a home schooler. If they were in ps, it would matter in terms of developing leadership skills and exposure to an older social scene at a younger age, but at home it doesn't matter. However, even in a homeschool situation it does matter when they approach college. It matters in test scores that given an extra year of math and maturity could improve significantly. It matters in a young man's ability to make social and business connections while in college. In the end it can have a huge impact on the life a person ultimately leads.

 

But, I agree with you that the decision as to when a child enters elementary school and graduates high school should rest with the parents.

 

This matter is something that I have looked at quite a bit, because I have a little guy is ahead academically in all areas and quite a bit ahead in math. However, at this point I am convinced that it is not in his best interest to move him ahead of state ps cut-offs that say he is in second grade this year.

 

Mandy

[texasmama]

My rising second grader will be 7 years, 8 months when we begin. My fourth grader will be 10 years, 10 months when he begins fifth grade a year from now.

[5ray2006]

My older ds is starting 4th grade at 9yrs, 11mos. He will be 10 years old next month in September. Therefore, next year he will be 10yrs, 11mos when he starts 5th grade. My younger ds is starting 1st grade at 6yrs, 6mos. So he will start 2nd grade at 7yrs, 6mos.

[Medieval Mom]

Ds was a seven years, zero months, one week when he entered second grade. ;)

[AlaskaGrownFamily]

My 2nd grader will be 7y,2m.