If Deconstructing Penguins was a huge eye-opener for you, raise your hand

[Annabel Lee]

I'm reading Deconstructing Penguins for the 1st time and I have to say, I had previously never been introduced to any similar type of literary analysis. How did I go through school never having heard of this? Did anyone else feel this way after reading a book on literary analysis? I'm suddenly rethinking all these other books I've read in light of this new discovery, right down to Henry & Ribsy.

 

Have any of you incorporated the discussion & analysis ideas in your homeschool? I'd love to hear any stories of how this process became a natural way of reading without making it into a chore or killing the kids' love of reading. :bigear:

[Niffercoo]

I'm only 3 chapters in, so far, but I totally agree with you! I've never before understood literary analysis. I used to get 99th percentile on standardized tests, except reading comprehension stuff when they asked about anything beyond storyline. I've been very nervous about this area with my own children, especially since I have two on the spectrum who are going to need a lot of help!! But I believe this book will be a great foundational step in my understanding! :)

[Capt_Uhura]

I've read over and over and over that literary analysis kills the love of reading. Just let them read the books. I don't think SWB recommends much until middle school and then it's only about 4 questions (who is the book about, what did he want, why couldn't he get it, how did he get it). But one day I found Teaching the Classics used for a great price and I bought it. He recommends starting with picture books. I did. My boys loved it. They said they enjoyed the discussion. I had read Deconstructing Penguins just prior to reading Teaching the Classics as well and recalled the terms but never recalled having such discussions in school.

 

We don't do every aspect of lit analysis w/ every book. I think last year with my 5th and 1st grader we did 3-4 picture books ala Teaching the Classics, about 1 per quarter. We'll do the same this year and move into longer books.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Wendy in ME]

I LOVED this book. I was really a math and science person in HS and college, so this was uncharted territory for me. I have actually handed it over to my 13yo, 8th grade ds to read over the summer after completing Figuratively Speaking to set the stage for next year. Up until now he has hated discussing literature. He likes to read; he just hates to talk about.

[WishboneDawn]

I've read over and over and over that literary analysis kills the love of reading.

 

I thin it can. I think the way so many curriculum and teachers approach it with assignments and worksheets can definitely do more harm then good.

 

But when it approached as it should be, with an engaging dialogue between people, the way we analyse tv shows (Lost discussions anyone?), movies, songs, etc. then it's a lot of fun.

[Capt_Uhura]

Yes, I think you're right WishBoneDawn. I don't recall any discussions while I was in school but I'm sure I had lots of boring worksheets.

 

This quarter we'll be doing the books in Decon Penguins now that we have all of the terms firmly under our belt. I'm looking forward to it! I wish they would make a Decon Penguins 2 with more book discussions in it.

[tranquilmama]

I thin it can. I think the way so many curriculum and teachers approach it with assignments and worksheets can definitely do more harm then good.

 

But when it approached as it should be, with an engaging dialogue between people, the way we analyse tv shows (Lost discussions anyone?), movies, songs, etc. then it's a lot of fun.

 

Good illustration!

[orangearrow]

I hated literary analysis in school, but we didn't start until high school. Reading this book completely changed the way I have book discussions with my kids now (not for every book... but some that lend themselves to this type of discussion). LOVE it and I really think my kids will enjoy/understand literary analysis better when they actually are in high school than I ever did. I was always wondering what was the point? And this book helped me finally understand the point - all these years later! LOL!

 

I wish they would make a Decon Penguins 2 with more book discussions in it.

 

Me too!!! I keep hoping to see it announced somewhere... ... ... :thumbup:

[prairiegirl]

Literary analysis has always intimidated me. I have never been good at it. Ialways seemed to get 'way out there' ideas about conflict and theme. DP helped put everything in little boxes for me so that I could figure out what the theme and conflict was. I used it for the first time last year at our hs book club. The book was 'Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH' We had an awesome discussion about this book and it was all because of DP.

 

My oldest is going into Gr. 6. We dabbled a bit in literary analysis for some of the books last year. This coming year, though, I want to step it up a bit. We will be doing 'The Hobbit', 'Animal Farm' and 'Huck Finn' for literary analysis this year. We won't be doing every book as I don't want to kill the love of books but I want to start training dd into thinking critically about a book.

 

I will be using DP, Teaching the Classics and Figuratively Speaking for my resources. I am hoping that we will be able to have some wonderful discussions based on our books.

[Crimson Wife]

I hated literary analysis in school, but we didn't start until high school. Reading this book completely changed the way I have book discussions with my kids now (not for every book... but some that lend themselves to this type of discussion). LOVE it and I really think my kids will enjoy/understand literary analysis better when they actually are in high school than I ever did. I was always wondering what was the point? And this book helped me finally understand the point - all these years later! LOL!

 

I'd been avoiding this particular book because I, too, loathed the kind of literary analysis we did at my high school. It didn't kill my love of reading but it killed my enjoyment of English class. :glare:

 

I just put a hold on DP at my library based on all these glowing recommendations.

[Tiberia]

I was an English major in college, so I did a lot of literary analysis. Depending on the teacher, it was either tedious and boring, or fascinating and eye-opening.

 

I think DP is a great approach. I appreciate that they get the kids thinking, they make the analysis seem easy and logical (and fun), and the analysis contributes to better understanding and enjoyment of the book. And it got the kids thinking about the "bigger picture" and big ideas in life.

 

It would have simplified my time in school if I had had such a simple and straightforward lesson in analysis. Some teachers try to make it so complicated, and in the process, kill the joy.

[Donna T.]

I'm reading Deconstructing Penguins for the 1st time and I have to say, I had previously never been introduced to any similar type of literary analysis. How did I go through school never having heard of this? Did anyone else feel this way after reading a book on literary analysis?

 

Yes!!

 

I am reading it now. I just got it last week. I'm only three chapters into it and I have already had to go back and tell my sons that I had told them something that was WRONG a few weeks ago!!

 

I love the "every book is a mystery" hook.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Donna T.

[Donna T.]

I've read over and over and over that literary analysis kills the love of reading.

Capt_Uhura

 

Yes, I've read that too so at times we haven't done it at all and at other times we've taken it lightly. But, my boys love to discuss what they are reading. I started a more formal program this year with no expectation of my youngest son (a 2nd grader) participating at all but he wanted to, he really loved it.

[Capt_Uhura]

Same thing happened with my 1st grader - he joined in and loved it. We were doing a picture book, "Two Eggs, Please!" which had about 20 words in it. Most of the story was told through body language and facial expressions. I asked my 1st grader who the protagonist was in the story. He said, "All of them! And they are each the antagonist as well" and went on to explain why. I about fell over. He was right! I was using Adam Andrew's guide to Two Eggs, Please. So it was very different from most books that have a single protag/antag but he got it. I was more than pleased.

[my2boysteacher]

I am currently reading DP in hopes of learning the tools to spur some interesting conversations with my DC.

I would love to buy 'Teaching the Classics', but it is just not in the budget right now.

Does anyone know what and when Pudewa recommends for literaray discussion with children?

[silliness7]

I LOVE this book. I struggle with incorporating the ideas. I ordered a guide called Ready Readers from www.centerforlit.com

 

It's a guide to 10 children's picture books that help you discuss plot, climax, protagonist, etc. with your kids.

 

My plan is to start small, with picture books. My kids and I had a good talk over Sam, Bangs, and Moonshine. I was glad I had the guide because I don't think I would have gone the right direction without it. I know there is not supposed to be a "right" and "wrong" so I should say the guide helped our talk stay on course. :001_smile:

 

I thought about getting together some of my sons friends to start a book club but there just wasn't the interest. :tongue_smilie:

[Capt_Uhura]

Pudewa, of IEW, sells Teaching the Classics so I would assume he recommends it since he sells it. He is also doing live discussions w/ Adam Andrews as well as Andrew Kerns....that's a lot of Andrews! :lol:

 

 

Silliness7 - can you tell me more about the Ready Readers? I have several of Mr. Andrew's individual book guides. I'm contemplating one of his new DVD courses, the one for Wind in the Willows. It's pricey but I enjoyed his DVDs as well as his MP3s, I thought I might splurge for just one.

[workingmom]

I finished reading DP last month after numerous posts here about it. I don't know why I put it off so long. It was eye opening and really what I want my ds to start thinking about. He is an avid reader and that's fine to not have a discussion on every book but I got together with another mom and we did Mr. Popper's Penguins with the guide from DP and it was awesome they actually got the themes. I'm just sticking to DP books for now since they do most of the analysis work.

 

Highly recommend this book

[my2boysteacher]

Pudewa, of IEW, sells Teaching the Classics so I would assume he recommends it since he sells it. He is also doing live discussions w/ Adam Andrews as well as Andrew Kerns....that's a lot of Andrews! :lol:

 

 

.

Yes, I realize this. I was wondering what age he recommends starting literary discussions with children.

[In2why]

I'd been avoiding this particular book because I, too, loathed the kind of literary analysis we did at my high school. It didn't kill my love of reading but it killed my enjoyment of English class. :glare:

 

I just put a hold on DP at my library based on all these glowing recommendations.

 

 

Me too lol....I usually read this forum with my library web page, and Amazon open so I can look more in depth when something comes up that interests me. So I went to put it on my list at the library so I can get it.

[~Amanda~]

I have this in my wish list on Amazon, but now I'm convinced I need to try really hard to get it.

[Jennefer@SSA]

I'm reading Deconstructing Penguins for the 1st time and I have to say, I had previously never been introduced to any similar type of literary analysis. How did I go through school never having heard of this? Did anyone else feel this way after reading a book on literary analysis? I'm suddenly rethinking all these other books I've read in light of this new discovery, right down to Henry & Ribsy.

 

Have any of you incorporated the discussion & analysis ideas in your homeschool? I'd love to hear any stories of how this process became a natural way of reading without making it into a chore or killing the kids' love of reading. :bigear:

 

Yes to the bolded part! I remember reading it and thinking, "And there I thought Charlotte's Web was just a precious children's story!" I was never, ever introduced to anything like this at all.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Yes, I think you're right WishBoneDawn. I don't recall any discussions while I was in school but I'm sure I had lots of boring worksheets.

 

This quarter we'll be doing the books in Decon Penguins now that we have all of the terms firmly under our belt. I'm looking forward to it! I wish they would make a Decon Penguins 2 with more book discussions in it.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[jpklehm]

Me too lol....I usually read this forum with my library web page, and Amazon open so I can look more in depth when something comes up that interests me. So I went to put it on my list at the library so I can get it.

 

:lol: I do the very same thing! I find so many books that come up here that I want to know more about and then I decide whether I want to borrow from the library or buy them from Amazon. So funny!

 

I received my copy of DP from the library recently and am just getting started (I had to finish another book I was reading first!). This is a great discussion; I can't wait to get started with my two sons.

 

Pam

[jpklehm]

Same thing happened with my 1st grader - he joined in and loved it. We were doing a picture book, "Two Eggs, Please!" which had about 20 words in it. Most of the story was told through body language and facial expressions. I asked my 1st grader who the protagonist was in the story. He said, "All of them! And they are each the antagonist as well" and went on to explain why. I about fell over. He was right! I was using Adam Andrew's guide to Two Eggs, Please. So it was very different from most books that have a single protag/antag but he got it. I was more than pleased.

 

This is fantastic, Capt_Uhura. My youngest son is the same way, wanting to do what his older brother is doing, so I'm thinking he'll want to join in with our discussions, too. Again, can't wait!

 

Pam

[Annabel Lee]

Wow, I'm usually such a thread-killer that I'm suprised to see that there are responses at all!

 

I'm not attempting anything like DP yet with my kids, until I have a firmer grasp on it myself. I still happen to agree w/ SWB on lit. anal. for younger ones. BUT, if it can be done in a non-chalant, engaging, conversational way, and the kids don't resist, then why not do it on a few books per school year? I would never make a child do this on every single thing he reads, or even every book he reads just for school. I think it could be enjoyable, like a PP said about discussion the show Lost.

[kwg]

I LOVE this book. I struggle with incorporating the ideas. I ordered a guide called Ready Readers from www.centerforlit.com

 

It's a guide to 10 children's picture books that help you discuss plot, climax, protagonist, etc. with your kids.

 

My plan is to start small, with picture books. My kids and I had a good talk over Sam, Bangs, and Moonshine. I was glad I had the guide because I don't think I would have gone the right direction without it. I know there is not supposed to be a "right" and "wrong" so I should say the guide helped our talk stay on course. :001_smile:

 

I thought about getting together some of my sons friends to start a book club but there just wasn't the interest. :tongue_smilie:

 

Had you read/seen the DVD course they offer? I am interested in purchasing the ready readers and was wondering if they make sense without having seen the DVDs.

 

I read DP and loved it. I got together a parent/child book club (posted a message on our local homeschool boards). I tried to do it the "dp way" but I don't know what I am doing :lol:. It has evolved this year into something else.....still good though. We have had a lot of fun with it!

[Capt_Uhura]

Adam ANdrews has several MP3s for download. In a few of them, he goes through lit analysis on a picture book. I think there is also a free MP3. You'll get a great idea of what he's about by listening to the MP3s. I also found that on the IEW website, Mr. Andrew's Mp3s are listed and one of them comes with a PDF for the lecture which gives the story chart he makes for each book etc as well as the list of questions for the story he reads. Those will definitely give you a good flavor for his methods.

[Capt_Uhura]

Wow, I'm usually such a thread-killer that I'm suprised to see that there are responses at all!

 

I'm not attempting anything like DP yet with my kids, until I have a firmer grasp on it myself. I still happen to agree w/ SWB on lit. anal. for younger ones. BUT, if it can be done in a non-chalant, engaging, conversational way, and the kids don't resist, then why not do it on a few books per school year? I would never make a child do this on every single thing he reads, or even every book he reads just for school. I think it could be enjoyable, like a PP said about discussion the show Lost.

 

It's definitely doable w/ younger kids. My then 4th grader and 1st grader really enjoyed our lit discussions using Teaching the Classics. We did 3-4 books, 1 per quarter using picture books. They are easy to analyze, quick to read snuggled on the couch. But my kids love discussion so YMMV. Also, you don't have to do a full analysis either. Sometimes a book just screams for the poetic devices to be discussed and reserving other aspects for another book. Also, Mr. Andrews does a full lit analysis on ONE chapter of Huckleberry Finn. That one chapter had all the elements of a story even though it was one chapter in a larger story. So a book might have really strong characters and that's all you need to discuss.

[Renaissance Mom]

Google Books preview.

[workingmom]

Adam ANdrews has several MP3s for download. In a few of them, he goes through lit analysis on a picture book. I think there is also a free MP3. You'll get a great idea of what he's about by listening to the MP3s. I also found that on the IEW website, Mr. Andrew's Mp3s are listed and one of them comes with a PDF for the lecture which gives the story chart he makes for each book etc as well as the list of questions for the story he reads. Those will definitely give you a good flavor for his methods.

 

 

Do you have a link for this mp3 can't find it

[MariannNOVA]

I LOVE this book. I struggle with incorporating the ideas. I ordered a guide called Ready Readers from www.centerforlit.com

 

It's a guide to 10 children's picture books that help you discuss plot, climax, protagonist, etc. with your kids.

 

 

Thank you to everyone for the great info here - and thanks, particularly, for that link above.

[Capt_Uhura]

Do you have a link for this mp3 can't find it

 

http://www.centerforlit.com/audio.htm

 

I don't know if you're Christian or not, but there is some Christian content but I was fine with it and I'm not Christian.

 

I've listened to From Seuss to Socrates, Asking the Right Questions: which is the one that has a pdf download of the talk at the IEW website. Henry Longfellow is also a good one.

[Penelope]

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I wasn't as impressed by DP as many of you.

 

I think some of lit. analysis for children's books is very contrived, including some of the examples given in the book. I also agree with SWB that it can ruin good books for some kids. I know my third grader would hate having to discuss a book in a book club like that.

[orangearrow]

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I wasn't as impressed by DP as many of you.

 

I think some of lit. analysis for children's books is very contrived, including some of the examples given in the book. I also agree with SWB that it can ruin good books for some kids. I know my third grader would hate having to discuss a book in a book club like that.

 

I feel that lit. analysis for almost any book can be contrived. At least, that's really how I felt in high school - I just couldn't see the point. I'm hoping, by discussing books like this with my kids while they're young, that when we reach the point of serious lit. analysis in high school that the experience they've had discussing certain childhood favorites will give them an understanding of the process that I never had.

 

We certainly won't dissect every book we read - but there will be a few this coming year for which we'll have this type of analysis discussion. I think there's room for lit. analysis without killing the love of books. Especially for kids who read as much as mine do, lol! :)

[MariannNOVA]

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I wasn't as impressed by DP as many of you.

 

I think some of lit. analysis for children's books is very contrived, including some of the examples given in the book. I also agree with SWB that it can ruin good books for some kids. I know my third grader would hate having to discuss a book in a book club like that.

 

I feel that lit. analysis for almost any book can be contrived. At least, that's really how I felt in high school - I just couldn't see the point. I'm hoping, by discussing books like this with my kids while they're young, that when we reach the point of serious lit. analysis in high school that the experience they've had discussing certain childhood favorites will give them an understanding of the process that I never had.

 

We certainly won't dissect every book we read - but there will be a few this coming year for which we'll have this type of analysis discussion. I think there's room for lit. analysis without killing the love of books. Especially for kids who read as much as mine do, lol! :)

 

I think that I might also use the word 'contrived' to describe my pov but my kids probably don't find the questions/discussions contrived. Me? As a h/s mom and former classroom teacher, well, I find lots of stuff 'contrived.' :lol: I would read some of it and think to myself 'they don't really expect me to ask this stuff, do they?' But, in reality, alot of what I might find contrived, really does open doors to kids - my kids and my kids in the classroom.

 

DP was great for our family b/c it gave my son a way to see beyond the story that was written in the book. He began to see that the book had not been written so that he would be 'tormented' by me telling him to READ, but that there were issues 'between the lines' to be explored.

 

Our discussions also provided a way for dh to join in and talk about whatever it was we had read as a foursome. Will we 'deconstruct' every book we read? No - dd11 reads too much and much too quickly for the twins to keep up, but we found the DP approach works with audio books that the four of us would listen to if we had to drive someplace.

 

Like everything else discussed on the gen'l and curric board - some stuff works for some folks, some folks run screaming from it.:lol:

 

The BEST DP'd book that we 'listened to' was The View From Saturday (Konigsberg). We talked about that book for about 4 nights - we found alot of discussion topics that were not in DP.

[Catwoman]

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I wasn't as impressed by DP as many of you.

 

I'm so glad I'm not the only one! :tongue_smilie:

 

I only read the sample pages at Amazon.com, so perhaps I'm missing the "greatness" of DP, but I was entirely unimpressed by the pages I read.

 

What am I missing? What makes DP so wonderful?

 

My local library has the book, and I don't even care about checking it out -- and I'm the one who always wants everything I read about on these forums!

 

Someone, please clue me in!

 

Cat

[kokotg]

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with DP. It irks me that they place so much emphasis on protagonist/antagonist and that their definition of protagonist (the character who pushes the action forward) is one I've never heard before anywhere (and I've looked for it since reading the book, thinking perhaps I'd somehow missed it in high school/college/grad school classes; but as far as I can tell, the authors just made it up based on the word stems rather than using the accepted working definition of the terms). The controversial definition wouldn't bother me if they didn't place so much importance on it, to the point where their interpretations of some of the books really don't work at all if you don't accept their definition. I also feel like some of the discussions they describe display what I see as a potential pitfall of attempts at socratic discussion: that it becomes something of a game where the students try to figure out the "right" answer that the teacher has in mind, and there's no room for give and take or alternative interpretations. But then I felt like this in some of my grad school seminars, too, so it may be that I'm just particularly stubborn in my own interpretations sensitive to this sort of thing ;). It's tricky, because, well, there ARE bad interpretations of literature; you can get it wrong. But there are also multiple defensible interpretations; lots of smart people like The Giver after all.

 

All of that said, I think there's some great stuff in there, too. I like the way it guides you through the discussions and make them seem so doable. I like the way the way they explain analysis as being a book detective. I like the way they insist that young kids can think seriously about literature. And the title is awesome. Deconstructing and Penguins are both great words that should find their way into book titles far more often.

[emmsmama]

I really loved DP when I read it, but now I wish I had a bookclub closeby that we could have those kinds of discussions in. It succeeded in making me want to look at underlying themes and ideas in books, but I still feel inept in leading discusssions like those given in the book. I feel like *I* wouldn't be able to get to the root of it all myself, let alone help my kids or others do so. I guess if you look at it though as there being no "right" answer then it's okay, but there are some books that I wouldn't be able to figure out the protagonist/antagonist like they did in DP.

[Kareni]

You might also enjoy these books by Thomas C. Foster:

 

How to Read Literature Like a Professor: A Lively and Entertaining Guide to Reading Between the Lines

 

and

 

How to Read Novels Like a Professor: A Jaunty Exploration of the World's Favorite Literary Form.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I was an English major in college, so I did a lot of literary analysis. Depending on the teacher, it was either tedious and boring, or fascinating and eye-opening.

 

I think DP is a great approach. I appreciate that they get the kids thinking, they make the analysis seem easy and logical (and fun), and the analysis contributes to better understanding and enjoyment of the book. And it got the kids thinking about the "bigger picture" and big ideas in life.

 

It would have simplified my time in school if I had had such a simple and straightforward lesson in analysis. Some teachers try to make it so complicated, and in the process, kill the joy.

 

 

I am so excited I am about to go buy it before my inner library loan comes in LOL. I can wait, its call self control, right?!?! :D

[swimmermom3]

You might also enjoy these books by Thomas C. Foster:

 

How to Read Literature Like a Professor: A Lively and Entertaining Guide to Reading Between the Lines

 

and

 

How to Read Novels Like a Professor: A Jaunty Exploration of the World's Favorite Literary Form.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you for mentioning these. They both look like something I would enjoy reading. Yes, I did say "enjoy." I like this kind of thing.:D

[Kareni]

Thank you for mentioning these. They both look like something I would enjoy reading. Yes, I did say "enjoy." I like this kind of thing.:D

 

You're quite welcome, Lisa. And, hey, you're in good company; I also like reading books such as these!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Guest]

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with DP. It irks me that they place so much emphasis on protagonist/antagonist and that their definition of protagonist (the character who pushes the action forward) is one I've never heard before anywhere (and I've looked for it since reading the book, thinking perhaps I'd somehow missed it in high school/college/grad school classes; but as far as I can tell, the authors just made it up based on the word stems rather than using the accepted working definition of the terms). The controversial definition wouldn't bother me if they didn't place so much importance on it, to the point where their interpretations of some of the books really don't work at all if you don't accept their definition. I also feel like some of the discussions they describe display what I see as a potential pitfall of attempts at socratic discussion: that it becomes something of a game where the students try to figure out the "right" answer that the teacher has in mind, and there's no room for give and take or alternative interpretations. But then I felt like this in some of my grad school seminars, too, so it may be that I'm just particularly stubborn in my own interpretations sensitive to this sort of thing ;). It's tricky, because, well, there ARE bad interpretations of literature; you can get it wrong. But there are also multiple defensible interpretations; lots of smart people like The Giver after all.

 

All of that said, I think there's some great stuff in there, too. I like the way it guides you through the discussions and make them seem so doable. I like the way the way they explain analysis as being a book detective. I like the way they insist that young kids can think seriously about literature. And the title is awesome. Deconstructing and Penguins are both great words that should find their way into book titles far more often.

 

I just picked this up from the library today and am already having these same feelings about the book. I am still excited about it, nonetheless. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I thin it can. I think the way so many curriculum and teachers approach it with assignments and worksheets can definitely do more harm then good.

 

But when it approached as it should be, with an engaging dialogue between people, the way we analyse tv shows (Lost discussions anyone?), movies, songs, etc. then it's a lot of fun.

 

:iagree: Half the time, my TEACHERS understood less about what we were reading than I did. For example, my senior year we did MacBeth. My teacher was saying that she didn't understand why the witches "turned" on MacBeth. I was like "what? They didn't turn on him, they made a prophecy. He thinks they turn on him, but they weren't for him in the first place!"

 

And I also majored in English. Some professors are more open than others. It took me FOREVER to explain my thesis that Victorian vampirism was just a version of modern-day bodice rippers. I don't think the professor ever agreed with me, even though it's a well-accepted theory since vampires have made come back. LOL

Edited August 2, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Farrar]

So I've now heard of this book in several places but I haven't yet read it. It sounds really interesting, but I'm just curious... I've always loved literary analysis. I was taught it in high school, where we had to do more than I was asked to do in college, honestly because we had all these 2-period discussion seminars and analysis questions. Then, when I taught school, I often used picture books and movies to introduce concepts of analysis (literary and otherwise) to secondary students. Am I going to find this book boring or will it have something new to say to me on the topic or just generally reinvigorate my interest?

[Nestof3]

Thanks for recommending this! I started reading last night and am half way through it. It's great!

[Guest]

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with DP. It irks me that they place so much emphasis on protagonist/antagonist and that their definition of protagonist (the character who pushes the action forward) is one I've never heard before anywhere (and I've looked for it since reading the book, thinking perhaps I'd somehow missed it in high school/college/grad school classes; but as far as I can tell, the authors just made it up based on the word stems rather than using the accepted working definition of the terms). The controversial definition wouldn't bother me if they didn't place so much importance on it, to the point where their interpretations of some of the books really don't work at all if you don't accept their definition. I also feel like some of the discussions they describe display what I see as a potential pitfall of attempts at socratic discussion: that it becomes something of a game where the students try to figure out the "right" answer that the teacher has in mind, and there's no room for give and take or alternative interpretations. But then I felt like this in some of my grad school seminars, too, so it may be that I'm just particularly stubborn in my own interpretations sensitive to this sort of thing ;). It's tricky, because, well, there ARE bad interpretations of literature; you can get it wrong. But there are also multiple defensible interpretations; lots of smart people like The Giver after all.

 

All of that said, I think there's some great stuff in there, too. I like the way it guides you through the discussions and make them seem so doable. I like the way the way they explain analysis as being a book detective. I like the way they insist that young kids can think seriously about literature. And the title is awesome. Deconstructing and Penguins are both great words that should find their way into book titles far more often.

 

A friend just pointed this thread out to me since I had not seen it (I haven't been on the forums much lately). I have also been reading DP (a library copy). I had seen it recommended here and on the SL forums in the past and decided to get it from the library until I buy it with our order at the start of October. Being Greek and having spent half my life there I did literary analysis very early on in school. We started by analyzing mostly poetry and short stories in elementary school and then moved on to the Odyssey and Iliad in Middle school. I do agree that it can be tricky in a school type setting. That, in my point of view, would be when the teacher has certain biases/ agenda they are trying to pass onto the students and use literary analysis to get the student to see things the way they want, which is not always what the author intended. I saw that in school in Greece (in high school mostly). I was however blessed with an excellent teacher in Middle school that really instilled the love of literary analysis in me and I have always been grateful for that. I was hooked on DP from the first pages I read and knew right then and there that I wanted to buy that book even though I have only read a quarter of it so far. Actually my friend pointed out this thread to me because I have been telling her to check it out from her library :D.

 

Kareni - thank you for the additional recommendations. I am checking those out now :).

 

kokotg - I did question that definition myself but thought to myself that for the age group that the book is targeting it was a great way to introduce the concepts without confusing the child(ren) ;). Well, just my thoughts anyway.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Guest

[Amy loves Bud]

BUT, if it can be done in a non-chalant, engaging, conversational way, and the kids don't resist, then why not do it on a few books per school year? .

 

This is how I'm thinking of it. I just plan to bring up some of these topics over lunch during our school year. Casually, conversationally.

 

I've really enjoyed DP.

[Capt_Uhura]

Actually SWB said in one of her talks, probably the lit analysis one or perhaps high school that the protagonist is the one pushing the action forward. I thought of this thread. :001_smile:

 

We do about 3 books per year. My boys really enjoy it. At other times, they will point great alliteration, or simile/metaphor. Wind in the Willows is a great one for literary elements. There is something on every page.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Capt_Uhura