How to correct/guide without tearing down

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds13 feels persecuted. And I admit that I do tend to come down pretty hard on him.

 

Today. . . I wanted to get basic chores done, get stuff ready for a day hike and then go on the hike with dogs and kids. We all had stuff to do. Dd8 did her chores and then worked on the dishes and folding laundry like I asked. Ds13 was like molasses. . . very slow, dense molasses. I asked him to get the info on getting to the trailhead. He looked it up on mapquest (or something like that) but didn't print it out. Wouldn't you think that I wouldn't have to specify that detail? It took him over 10 minutes just to put on his shoes! And then I had to send him back in for half the stuff I had asked him to pack in the car. Then when we get to the trailhead there were 3 paths. We discussed the paths together. I told him that he could choose between the easy path or the medium path but that my health is not good enough for the strenuous path. We went straight up for a half hour before I got wise to the fact that he had taken us on the strenuous path (on purpose) anyway. We did not complete even half of the hike before I had to turn back. My legs were trembling so badly and I knew we still had to hike back down.

 

So - while sitting on a log taking a break, I admit that I scolded him. I told him that I was frustrated that I could not trust him to do what I asked him to do all the way. I told him that I was frustrated that I couldn't trust him to choose a hike within the parameters that we had set. I told him that I wanted him to be a man of integrity but this was not the way to go about it. He started to cry that he did want to do things right but that he can't seem to be able to "hear" what I want him to do. I did back pedal a little bit. I did realize that none of it was that huge a deal. He didn't print out the map but since we had looked at the site, we knew what road to take and what exit to get off at. And that we ended up getting out the door ten minutes late (because of his dawdling and having to go back to get stuff) but we still were able to enjoy our time. And that even though we didn't finish the hike he chose, no one was hurt.

 

So my question is this - is there a way for me to encourage/kick him in the butt to get him to improve on following through on things without making him feel like "carp" because yet again he didn't measure up? I don't want this to be a compare the kids thing but when a child 5 years younger gets all the things done in a timely fashion and as I asked, I do find myself thinking that I'm not asking too much of him.

[Caraway]

If he says that he is having trouble "hearing" you, have you asked him to repeat the tasks to make sure he understands?

 

Would it work to give him a list to cross off? A timer so that he could see how much time he had left to do the tasks?

 

FWIW, my husband, man of integrity, superhero of his work environment, would not have printed out the directions. And it would have completely annoyed me. :tongue_smilie:

[Rosie_0801]

Try "Now we have hindsight to help, how do you suppose this situation could have been improved?" It means the same as "ARRRRGHHHHHHH" but is easier to say nonchalantly.

 

Rosie

[Mrs Mungo]

Honestly? I think a lot of this persecution thing is age and hormones. My eldest missed several problems on her Algebra test today. So, I went over it with her on the white board, explaining each problem. She cried the entire time. I wasn't even criticizing her *at all*, I was just explaining how to do it! Sigh.

[OrganicAnn]

There is a book called "How to Talk so Children will listen" and their other book "How to Talk so Children will Learn" that deals with both teachers and parents.

 

One of the main issues is to not begin the conversation with criticism.

[EKS]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if he deliberately chose the strenuous path when you told him that you weren't able to do it, then I think you have every reason to be angry with him. That is unacceptable behavior. He was lucky that you were feeling up to going on a hike at all. If I was in your situation, I would be leaving him home during all hikes for the foreseeable future. In this instance, he didn't measure up, and he should feel like carp.

Edited July 9, 2010 by EKS

[lllll]

..

[gingersmom]

I think its a 13 year old thing.

 

My 13 year old has had a similar attitude this week. :banghead:

[Kathleen in VA]

Try "Now we have hindsight to help, how do you suppose this situation could have been improved?" It means the same as "ARRRRGHHHHHHH" but is easier to say nonchalantly.

 

Rosie

 

Rosie, you have got to be one of the most insightful, delightful, funny people I've ever come across. I absolutely love reading every one of your posts! This comment is great and so, so true.

 

Honestly? I think a lot of this persecution thing is age and hormones. My eldest missed several problems on her Algebra test today. So, I went over it with her on the white board, explaining each problem. She cried the entire time. I wasn't even criticizing her *at all*, I was just explaining how to do it! Sigh.

 

:iagree:My ds13 is the exact. same. way. I feel like no matter what I say it is the wrong thing. Doesn't matter how nice or calm or sweet or loving I am - he always feels like I'm mad at him. Sigh for sure!

 

Did your ds want to go? It sounds a little like he was angry and didn't really want to go in the first place; thus, the slightly vengeful choice of the most difficult trail?? I'm not sure.

 

This occurred to me as well. It sounds like he may not have wanted to go in the first place.

[easygoer]

There is a book called "How to Talk so Children will listen" and their other book "How to Talk so Children will Learn" that deals with both teachers and parents.

 

One of the main issues is to not begin the conversation with criticism.

 

How to Talk...is one of the best books I have ever read. Enough good things cannot be said about it, IMHO. I read it the first time when we were foster parents to a 13yo boy.

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/0380811960

 

I also age: it's the age ;)

[Denisemomof4]

I agree with Kai and Mrs. Mungo. As I read your post, I could clearly see my younger son, now 14 but almost 15, all over it LAST year when he was 13. I do believe his age and hormones are in play here. I also think his behavior was unacceptable.

 

I have learned that I need to approach younger ds differently than older ds. I have also learned that this feeling of being persecuted is apparently a teenage (boy) thing. Both my boys went through it and my oldest still periodically does.

 

What I learned I had to do with younger ds is to tell him what I needed/expected of him, and then have him repeat it back to me. Because he has ADD, I never gave more than one, perhaps SOMETIMES two, requests at a time.

 

I do think it was nasty of your son to intentionally choose a path you weren't ready for, especially with how sick you've been. I'm surprised you were even up for a hike, and especially your dd! I think you had every right to be upset with him. His reaction doesn't surprise me at all, now that I have two teen boys. I hate to say it, but I think this feeling of persecution/victimization will continue, off and on, for awhile.

 

About being slow - younger ds is like this and it's SO aggravating. If you discover a solution, please share. ;)

[Tap]

Ds15 and dd11 have both had times like this. For dd11, I tell her she must do what I ask first, then she can finish what she wants to do. Otherwise, I lose her in the stuffed animal pile as she chooses and dresses who is going with us for the day....ugh! If I tell her one chore, that will take more than 10 minutes (live vacuuming) I write her a list. She likes lists, because it keeps me off her back.

 

Ds15 just takes. for. ev. er to do anything. He is a just a 'not in a rush' type person. I make sure to give him A. LOT. of time and when I tell him a list of things, I also say "this should take you x amount of time". This helps him quite a bit. It can take him a FULL 5 minutes to tie his shoes. :confused: The funny thing is, when I watch him, he is busy the full 5 minutes, tying his shoes. He just ties very, very slow. Most of the time, I tell him to tie his shoes in the car. I mentioned to him one time that he should try to take a quick shower before we went somewhere, he looked at me and said in all seriousness "I always take quick showers" .... LOL his showers are 20-30 minutes long! One of ds's most endearing qualities is that he is sooo sweet, kind, and loving. I think that part of his 'low stress' personality is that he is just a meandering soul. He likes to take the path less traveled. There are times that I tell him things like "if you carry the items that need to go upstairs all in one arm full instead of individual trips, based on room, it will speed things up" He looks at me in amazement and says..."oh yeaH!" It never would have occured to him. He Hyper-focuses (he is a bit ADD) on one thing and just does one thing at a time. Great for getting things done right, not for speed. The other thing for him that plays into this....he is not lazy in the least. So, in the example above, many people would have figured out a quick way to do it, so they wouldn't have to take as many trips upstairs. Ds doesn't mind the trips, so he doesn't try to find a quicker way. :lol:

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tap, tap, tap

[Jean in Newcastle]

Did your ds want to go? It sounds a little like he was angry and didn't really want to go in the first place; thus, the slightly vengeful choice of the most difficult trail?? I'm not sure.

 

No, he really loves to hike and really wanted to go. He chose the most difficult trail because he's been champing at the bit in order to do a challenging hike. I told him that I'd love him to be able to complete this hike - but with his dad, not me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do believe his age and hormones are in play here.

 

I do think it was nasty of your son to intentionally choose a path you weren't ready for, especially with how sick you've been. I'm surprised you were even up for a hike, and especially your dd! I think you had every right to be upset with him. His reaction doesn't surprise me at all, now that I have two teen boys. I hate to say it, but I think this feeling of persecution/victimization will continue, off and on, for awhile.

 

About being slow - younger ds is like this and it's SO aggravating. If you discover a solution, please share. ;)

 

I guess it is age and hormones since you and Mrs. Mungo and Kai and Easygoer and Kathleen and Gingersmom all agree!

 

And it makes me feel better that others would be annoyed with him too;)

 

I think on the hike thing he was just focused on what he wanted (a challenging hike). He usually is quite empathetic toward my health (he is the only one other than dh who can tell just by looking at me when I'm in pain.) I overdid it today but otherwise I'm ok. The antibiotics are working. Dd8 is the energizer bunny and nothing can keep her down.

 

Also - he started to go down the persecution route again tonight because HE chose to take a paying job for tomorrow and HE chose to sign up for an earlier tae kwando session (both of which put some stress on him to get things done tonight and tomorrow morning) and then HE chose to dawdle and not have a snack at snack time. . . I just kept repeating, "What do you want to choose re. ___________" with each complaint. He finally settled down and chose to deal with things instead of blaming me for them.:)

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie, you have got to be one of the most insightful, delightful, funny people I've ever come across. I absolutely love reading every one of your posts! This comment is great and so, so true.

 

 

Thank you very much for the compliment, but I must say that theory and reality are not well matched around here. You really don't understand how hard I am trying to use that phrase instead of ARRRRRRRGGGHHH with my husband type guy (well, you probably do, having males in your life!) I'm afraid ARRRRGGGHHHH wins a lot of the time, but hey, at least it's not *all* the time, right? Anyhow, he appreciates any alternative to ARGH so at least my work is being valued, heheh.

 

Anyway, I think the 13 year old boy in my future should be so grateful that I'm going to have 12 more years of practice. Surely my nonchalant skills will improve in 12 years? Huh, does that mean we should thank dh for annoying me? Woah, this line of is doing my head in!

 

Rosie- so much better at giving advice than following it. At least I'm good at something, huh? :D

[Barry Goldwater]

I just kept repeating, "What do you want to choose re. ___________" with each complaint. He finally settled down and chose to deal with things instead of blaming me for them.:)

__________________

 

 

I started off thinking he was desiring less direction and more control of the situation that hiking day...when I read above, I think that confirmed it.

 

This is easy to say, and HARD TO DO, but sometimes when a kid messes up, he knows it, and the LAST thing he needs to here is, 'HEY! YOU MESSED UP!' It takes a lot of practice to separate your emotions from your reaction...but doing so keeps you in a position of authority and control...

[Peela]

Well I thought that my son was a challenge from birth, but the last couple of years have topped it all! I agree with the others...hormones. Change. Growing up. My son is now moodier, alternating with an obvious maturity kicking in sometimes which is surprising everyone (well, that probably started after he turned 14).

 

Love him, growl at him, talk with him, play with him, get angry with him, apologise to him, love him some more...what else to do? We are only human too. I dont think its meant to be neat and peaceful. We all grow through all the rubbing against each other. Family life is messy and noisy and we are bound to get annoyed with each other.

[Nestof3]

Honestly, the thing that really annoys me is that he chose the most strenuous path. I have to exert a lot of pressure around here for anyone to do what I want of them. Self-motivation does not exist around here, and I have to remind and nag to get anything done. I have noticed the guys in my family will stay as self-absorbed as you will allow them to be.

 

Now, I'm going to go get my 20 year old up and tell him to do something with the pile of stuff he has been putting off. And, I am going to remind him that he has done absolutely nothing to contribute to the family lately.

[FriedClams]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if he deliberately chose the strenuous path when you told him that you weren't able to do it, then I think you have every reason to be angry with him. That is unacceptable behavior. He was lucky that you were feeling up to going on a hike at all. If I was in your situation, I would be leaving him home during all hikes for the foreseeable future. In this instance, he didn't measure up, and he should feel like carp.

 

 

I agree. "Persecuted" is for innocent people. He should,rightly, feel scolded. He was intentionally trying to be difficult. He got called out. That's life. That he's 13 and crying over it - time to work on a thicker skin and emotional control.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

Jean, I heard this acronym "SECS" on a Christian radio program. It really helped me.

 

S-Sympathize

E-Empathize

C-Compassion

S-Solutions

 

Here's the program: http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/renewal-radio/listen/broadcast-archives.html

 

The series of programs (15 minutes each) is called "The 10 Irrefutable Laws of Relationships."

 

It was life-changing for me!

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

[Barry Goldwater]

Now, I'm going to go get my 20 year old up and tell him to do something with the pile of stuff he has been putting off. And, I am going to remind him that he has done absolutely nothing to contribute to the family lately.

 

Rot Row!!!

[Teachin'Mine]

Rosie, you have got to be one of the most insightful, delightful, funny people I've ever come across. I absolutely love reading every one of your posts! This comment is great and so, so true.

 

 

 

:iagree:My ds13 is the exact. same. way. I feel like no matter what I say it is the wrong thing. Doesn't matter how nice or calm or sweet or loving I am - he always feels like I'm mad at him. Sigh for sure!

 

 

 

This occurred to me as well. It sounds like he may not have wanted to go in the first place.

 

I can ditto Kathleen's whole post - except that I have a dd13. She tells me all the time not to yell at her. Occasionally I do, but usually I'm speaking to her without my voice being raised at all. And she'll even admit that it wasn't yelling because I was loud, but it was what I said. This comes up almost every time there's a correction. So correcting her is equal to yelling. :001_huh: It's very frustrating. I also need to learn how to correct without seeming to criticize. I think most of it is because she's 13, but I hate the "battles". She's a great kid, but we use Jim Bob from the Waltons as an example. He went through a phase where he was constantly saying "I wasn't thinking". :lol: We're in that phase. I need to learn to :chillpill:. I think I need to pay more attention to what she does right and ignore the other stuff more. Thank you for this thread. :)

[hillfarm]

I just read the thread about being tired of being the family cheerleader and carrying all the responsibility, so that's where my head is right now.

 

I get tired of having to baby everyone along. To me, guiding is good, teaching in a positive manner. However, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. If we refuse to accept constructive criticism and well-intentioned correction, then we will never succeed at anything.

 

My 11yo dd doesn't like to be corrected--get over it, sweetie. If you want to perfect the skill, then you are going to have to learn to correct your mistakes. That is life. I refuse to be painted as the bad guy because you don't want to hear that you are not perfect. Time to learn how to handle a little difficulty in your life, and to be glad that you are learning these lessons in the safe environment of a loving home, not out in the cold, cruel world where no one cares whether your ego is bruised or not.

 

Why do we have to tiptoe around, being so careful to not ruffle any feathers or damage anyone's ego? No one seems to be that concerned about my feathers or ego. If life's lessons aren't learned with the tactful approach, then it's time to move on to a more direct method.

 

Regarding the OP, I agree that persecution is something done against the innocent. If a person is part of the problem, then it is not persecution to correct them. Especially if they are our dependent children that we are responsible for trying to turn into proper adult human beings someday.

 

Regarding the hike, I would have repeated that I didn't feel up to that trail and walked the other way. Unless he physically forced me to, I wouldn't have set foot on that trail. His behavior showed a callous disregard for his mother's health and safety and a high degree of selfishness. In the future, I would explain to this child exactly what I was offering prior to leaving the house. If he tried to bully or otherwise manipulate me into doing that which I did not choose to do, I would immediately end the activity and go home. IMO it is important to make it clear to him now that you will not tolerate lack of respect or him venting his anger toward you. As bad as this was, imagine what life would be like with him at age 16 or 17 if the bullying and selfishness are allowed to go unchecked. In the immortal words of Barney Fyfe, I say, "Nip it. Nip it in the bud!"

[Carol in Cal.]

Jean, I heard this acronym "SECS" on a Christian radio program. It really helped me.

 

S-Sympathize

E-Empathize

C-Compassion

S-Solutions

 

 

 

 

This sounds intriguing. Are these four steps to be done in order? What is the difference between sympathizing and empathizing?

[Nestof3]

It was the "No one just takes up space" mini-lecture. He caught on fast, so it was short and sweet. Well, not so sweet. ;)

 

Rot Row!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just read the thread about being tired of being the family cheerleader and carrying all the responsibility, so that's where my head is right now.

 

I get tired of having to baby everyone along. To me, guiding is good, teaching in a positive manner. However, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. If we refuse to accept constructive criticism and well-intentioned correction, then we will never succeed at anything.

 

My 11yo dd doesn't like to be corrected--get over it, sweetie. If you want to perfect the skill, then you are going to have to learn to correct your mistakes. That is life. I refuse to be painted as the bad guy because you don't want to hear that you are not perfect. Time to learn how to handle a little difficulty in your life, and to be glad that you are learning these lessons in the safe environment of a loving home, not out in the cold, cruel world where no one cares whether your ego is bruised or not.

 

Why do we have to tiptoe around, being so careful to not ruffle any feathers or damage anyone's ego? No one seems to be that concerned about my feathers or ego. If life's lessons aren't learned with the tactful approach, then it's time to move on to a more direct method.

 

Regarding the OP, I agree that persecution is something done against the innocent. If a person is part of the problem, then it is not persecution to correct them. Especially if they are our dependent children that we are responsible for trying to turn into proper adult human beings someday.

 

Regarding the hike, I would have repeated that I didn't feel up to that trail and walked the other way. Unless he physically forced me to, I wouldn't have set foot on that trail. His behavior showed a callous disregard for his mother's health and safety and a high degree of selfishness. In the future, I would explain to this child exactly what I was offering prior to leaving the house. If he tried to bully or otherwise manipulate me into doing that which I did not choose to do, I would immediately end the activity and go home. IMO it is important to make it clear to him now that you will not tolerate lack of respect or him venting his anger toward you. As bad as this was, imagine what life would be like with him at age 16 or 17 if the bullying and selfishness are allowed to go unchecked. In the immortal words of Barney Fyfe, I say, "Nip it. Nip it in the bud!"

 

My husband agrees with you. He thinks I should have pulled the plug on the hike at the first sign of dawdling at home.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

Carol, I would encourage you to listen to the conversation on the radio programs linked in the original message for detailed info. regarding these steps. It is very enlightening! They are short programs (15 minutes), and I like to listen to them at night when things are quiet in our home. Blessings!

[Impish]

That he deliberately chose the path he wanted vs what you needed and had already told him 'no' on would have been a serious problem for me. And I agree that 'persecuted' only works if a person is innocent. He wasn't, having deliberately made the decision against you.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I started off thinking he was desiring less direction and more control of the situation that hiking day...when I read above, I think that confirmed it.

 

This is easy to say, and HARD TO DO, but sometimes when a kid messes up, he knows it, and the LAST thing he needs to here is, 'HEY! YOU MESSED UP!' It takes a lot of practice to separate your emotions from your reaction...but doing so keeps you in a position of authority and control...

 

I hear you on not hitting him on the head with a two-by-four re. messing up. But - I was trying to give him more control of the hiking day. That's why I asked him to be in charge of getting directions. And that's why I had asked him to be in charge of packing certain supplies. And that's why I gave him a choice between two hiking trails. And that's why I busied myself with other details and (according to my dh) let him have way too much time to work things out (ie. waste time). I was hoping that he would kick himself into gear but it took him 30 min. to pull up simple mapquest directions (this kid is a computer genius so it's not like it was too hard for him), over 10 min. to get his shoes on, and then he blew off the things he was supposed to pack, and of course you know that he chose non-option #3 on the hike. . .

 

So - give me a "script" of sorts of what to say to this kid after all of that. (Perhaps Rosie's script has been the least judgmental and would be good?)

[Carol in Cal.]

I wonder whether it might be better to try to give him control of an area that doesn't effect everyone in the family so much, and then gradually work up to the expedition responsibilities and such. That would take a lot of the downside risk of giving him these responsibilities out of the equation

 

Maybe some mental/verbal practicing would be good? Sometimes this helps with DD--"What would you do to prepare for a hike over by that Open Space reserve? What would need to be packed? Would we need a list? How about a map? What time would be the best time to get there, do you think, and why?"

 

Regarding the dawdling, I don't know any solution to that one. DD is 13. We are living this. Electronics seem to be contributing heavily to it. Threats to take the internet cable are somewhat effective when applied judiciously. But really, I want her to learn to prioritize herself rather than always doing it for her.

[Cedarmom]

=

So - give me a "script" of sorts of what to say to this kid after all of that. (Perhaps Rosie's script has been the least judgmental and would be good?)

 

I think the script you used worked well. It seems like no matter what you say many 13 year old boys will take the persecuted route. I liked what you said about wanting him to be a man of integrity. Besides hormones, this is part of what makes teenage so hard. They are struggling between childhood and adlut hood. The more I was able to help my son see what an adult was like the more he was able to becomean adult. I think you hadnled it great. Keep it up-he will grow out of it!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Keep it up-he will grow out of it!

 

Thank you. Sigh. We had more of it this morning. . . Me telling him the agenda (chores at home, getting his baking orders taken care of, going to tae kwando, lunch and then doing school out somewhere where they have a/c). I think he inherited my MILs gene for only "hearing what he wants to hear". . . He did get his baking done, skipped the chores and started to do school here at home. . . I was zen-calm and gave him his choices re. the chores. . . Once the chores are done he can do some school ahead of time here but we're going to get them done so that we can escape the heat in this house!

[Mrs Mungo]

I can ditto Kathleen's whole post - except that I have a dd13. She tells me all the time not to yell at her. Occasionally I do' date=' but usually I'm speaking to her without my voice being raised at all. And she'll even admit that it wasn't yelling because I was loud, but it was what I said. This comes up almost every time there's a correction. So correcting her is equal to yelling. :001_huh: [/quote']

 

This reminds me of Leave It to Beaver. :lol:

[hillfarm]

My script, which is easy to do since I am sitting here and not dealing directly with him, would be something like:

 

"The other day I felt like you took advantage of what kindness I tried to offer you. You dawdled and procrastinated which delayed our departure and you selected a trail that I specifically told you I was not up to doing since I had been sick.

 

That is not how we treat each other here in this family. I am sorry if you feel that I am picking on you, but I can't let such selfishness and disrespect pass without comment.

 

From here on, I will tell you exactly what I am willing to do or offer before we leave the house. If you choose to poke around and miss the departure time or if you exercise your choices unwisely or selfishly, then the activity will be cancelled and you will miss out. I'm telling you this now so that there will be no confusion the next time the situation comes up."

 

Explain the problem, remind him of the rule, and spell out the consequences for the next time. And then STICK TO IT.

Edited July 10, 2010 by hillfarm

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks, Hillfarm. It just kills me because he's making bad choices right and left right now. Dh was home today when he did one of his chores by dumping the stuff he was to pick up all over the bicycles in the garage. (Not an angry defiant act but a lazy "that's close enough" to the shelves sort of act). I was so glad that I could bow out of it and let dh handle it!

[hillfarm]

I wish I had no idea how you feel. However, my dd has already tried some of this at the age of 11.:glare:

 

Our policy for work not done correctly or well is that she has to go back and redo that job plus one more. So the penalty for one bad job is now there are two jobs to be done.

 

I know that you have to seek a happy medium, caring and compassion tempered with clear expectations and consistent consequences. It goes a lot better for me if I write down the agreements and consequences so that when the time comes, I am not emotional in dealing with it.

 

I have also tried to explain to dd that while we could consider her a kid up to age 20, that she will likely be an adult for nearly 60 years, 3 times the length of her childhood. If we let her live an easy, undisciplined childhood, that will result in a more unhappy adulthood. If we let her have some fun while she is young, but also expect her to learn how to be a decent person, then that will result in a much happier life for her other 60 years. And besides, I'm a mom. It's my job.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have also tried to explain to dd that while we could consider her a kid up to age 20, that she will likely be an adult for nearly 60 years, 3 times the length of her childhood. If we let her live an easy, undisciplined childhood, that will result in a more unhappy adulthood. If we let her have some fun while she is young, but also expect her to learn how to be a decent person, then that will result in a much happier life for her other 60 years. And besides, I'm a mom. It's my job.

 

Ooo. That's good! I'm stealing it!:p

[Tap]

Please don't read this as a negative question, but a sincere 'have you tried this' question instead....What happens if you just ask him about the circumstances, and allow him to reflect on them, instead of trying to tell him your side of it. What if you had a conversation like this (using your last example just because it is convenient).

 

The more I read, and the more I think, I wonder if he isn't ready to have more responsibility and depth of thought, but feels overwhelmed at how hard it is also. He knows that he can keep being a kid, and that is easier.

 

 

You: "I am curious about how you handled something"

He: "what"

You: "what do you think the reason was that I asked you to take the items to the garage"

He: to get them out of the house

You: and...(if he doesn't answer)..to put them away.

You: you are 13 and very intelligent. Give me an intelligent reason why we put things away. NOT a 2yo answer of 'because' but a legit answer.

He: so we can find them....(answer 2).

You: and.....

He: (answer 3)

You: and....

 

I would continue to push and to see his perspective. I would ask him to think about whether he wants to grow up to be a man, get treated like a man or to be an irresponsible 2yo the rest of his life. I would keep asking questions of him, asking him to define who he is and who he wants to be.

 

It seems sometimes kids get lost in between being a kid and an adult. They want to be the adult, make the fun choices (like picking the trail you hiked) but they have the kid mentality of 'give me the authority or else I will spew on you', 'I am the little kid, accommodate me and my whims and tantrums-then forgive me',

 

 

I would ask him questions about who he sees himself as as an adult. What kind of traits in himself that he will be proud of. What kind of traits that he is less pleased with.

 

I would ask him who he sees as a positive well functioning adult. I would ask him who he sees that isn't functioning well as an adult. I would ask him as to what he sees the difference as. NOT a right and wrong answer, but just to get a gauge of his maturity and seeing things for what they are.

 

I would ask him to tell you about yourself and your husband. What is his perspective on you and your husbands parenting or 'being an adult'. I wouldn't let him sit and cast a bunch of blame away from himself, but I would listen to his pov, and if you have opportunities for improvement, I would remember them and try to work on those too. ( I have learned a lot about myself through my sons eyes, during conversations like this one)

 

I would ask him to think about his actions and to silently think about which adult this behavior resembles more. (Asking him to only think of the answer-he is more likely to be honest-you will most likely be able to tell by his body language) I would ask him to think about his family (make it about him not you) and how his behavior either strengthens it or weakens the bond he has with his family. I would ask him to think about how much the family needs everyone of its members so much, that when one of them stumbles, everyone else wants to help pick them up so that you are all together again. But, when one person is stumbling on purpose (or lack of appropriate action)...how would that make the rest of the family feel. Again, I would approach this part with mostly silence from him, so he can listen and not be thinking about formulating what he wants to say to hurt you in return.

 

If he seems to respond to this form of parenting, I would then ask him for a single day pledge to do his best...for just one day. You can then ask him what you can do as a parent to help him be this person who he thinks he can be for just one day. Take his cues seriously. Ask him what you should do if you see him falter. Ask him what he is wanting to accomplish on that day. This is huge! Make sure he has a specific goal to accomplish, as simple as doing his chores without being asked). Then, I would treat him with utmost kindness and respect on that day. Have a morning prayer if you do that sort of thing to wish him well on his journey...of just one day. At the end of the night, talk about it, but focus on it being just one day. If it goes well, I would do it again, and again. Just like potty training, one day at a time. Little set backs are cleaned up, forgotten and everyone moves on.

 

He seems to me to be acting and not really thinking about his actions lately. I really feel he may need to be taught to think things through. Some people come to this realization on their own, others have to be taught. I suspect he needs to be taught.

 

I would emphasis that manhood is not a gift, it is earned. No one gets respected unless they respect those around them first. It is a two way street.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tap, tap, tap

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thank you, Tap. There is a lot there to think through and absorb. I do think you are right on a lot of key points. I just need to really have thought it all through before I try to talk to him like this - it wouldn't do to ask him to wait while I go bring up this thread to refresh my memory!

[Miss Sherry]

My husband agrees with you. He thinks I should have pulled the plug on the hike at the first sign of dawdling at home.

Perhaps pull the plug on the one doing the dawdling but still take the others. Also, I wouldn't let him be in charge of picking the trail next time if Mom is along. I think Mom needs to have the information about the degree of difficulty of each trail so she can make a decision based on her energy levels on that day.

I think Mom is too tired to do any chores now because her son took her on a trail that was too strenuous. But her son has enough energy to do the chores.

Since he chose to make life hard on Mom on that day, I think he should now have the privilege of making life nicer for Mom by doing extra chores for Mom, of Mom's choosing, such as laundry, vacuuming,mowing the lawn,washing the car, etc. and in addition Dad should take him to get a special apology gift -(with sons money if he has any and if not he earns it with extra chores )- for Mom such as some department store flowers and an apology. He needs to learn to "make up" to and make apologies to those he trespasses against. Perhaps he will think twice about disrespecting his Mom again when he has to pay the piper.

If it doesn't become clear to him that he is to treat his Mom with respect he will be even more difficult to deal with in a few years. Yikes.