Kinda blows blaming vaccines...

[asta]

New autism genes found

 

Researchers have identified dozens of genes that inrease the risk of an individual getting autism, according to a new study published in the journal Nature.

 

Genetic data were collected from 1,000 people with autism spectrum disorder and 1,300 from individuals without ASD. Researchers found those with autism had more genetic insertions and deletions–called copy number variants or CNV–in their genome than those who did not have the disorder. Some of the variants seemed to be inherited while others appeared to be new, meaning they were found only in the affected children, but not their parents.

 

[...]

 

"Piece by piece, we are discovering genetic mutations that can cause autism. These findings will provide answers for families about what contributed to their autism," said Andy Shih Ph.D, Autism Speaks vice president for scientific affairs. "Furthermore, as we have learned from examples involving other genetic risk factors of autism (e.g., Fragile X, Rett, TSC), these genetic findings help us understand the underlying biology of autism, which can lead to the development of novel treatments."

 

[...]

 

 

Steve Scherer, one of the researchers in the study says the results will lead to a paradigm shift when it comes to our understanding of the root causes of autism. "Our research findings point to the fact that the genetic variations that we discovered are actually rare in frequency meaning most individuals with autism are probably genetically unique each having their own genetic form of autism. Now that we know there are numerous genes involved in autism, another very very important finding of the study is we are actually able to tie these genes together in the same biological pathways or networks and they seem to be involved in how the brain functions. Knowing these autism genes are linked we can begin to develop rationally derived therapies to target the common pathways involved for the very first time."

 

The research from which this article has been written may be found in the journal Nature: Functional impact of global rare copy number variation in autism spectrum disorders.

 

 

Think different.

 

 

a

[Mom0012]

I don't know, but I thought one of the arguments for vaccines being the cause is that certain children were predisposed to having problems and the act of giving the vaccines triggered the onset of the symptoms.

 

I'm not on either side of the issue at this point and I'm certainly no scientist, but your comment made me wonder if the above argument was still feasible?

 

Lisa

[Carrie12345]

"Steve Scherer, one of the researchers in the study says the results will lead to a paradigm shift when it comes to our understanding of the root causes of autism. "Our research findings point to the fact that the genetic variations that we discovered are actually rare in frequency meaning most individuals with autism are probably genetically unique each having their own genetic form of autism. Now that we know there are numerous genes involved in autism, another very very important finding of the study is we are actually able to tie these genes together in the same biological pathways or networks and they seem to be involved in how the brain functions. Knowing these autism genes are linked we can begin to develop rationally derived therapies to target the common pathways involved for the very first time.""

 

The part I highlighted is what I find the most fascinating and exciting.

 

One of the things that has always made me nuts with education professionals and even the psychologists we've tried has been the constant "Oh, but he doesn't..." and "Well, he must..."

 

No! While he does share many general traits with his fellow ASD'ers, the intricate details of his situation are completely unique, as are those of the rest of the ASD'ers we've met. You know, just like each NORMAL is unique?!?!

 

I wish I had the patience/time/energy to seriously study genetics. I have this fantasy that autism research will lead to wonderful discoveries about the entire human spectrum. ;)

[Peela]

Kinda blows blaming vaccines...

 

 

 

Not really. Vaccines might activate some genes, or turn off others.

And there is still so much unanswered.

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

Just because they learn more doesn't solve the whole riddle yet. There's a long way to go yet for that.

[jplain]

Your title reflects poor understanding of biology. Identifying one or more contributing factors to a disease process does not mean all others are now ruled out. Most medical conditions, even those that appear to be simple, have both genetic and environmental components.

 

(Note that I'm not taking any position here on vaccines and ASD, nor do I wish to argue that point. I'm just noting the flaw in your logic.)

[LittleHouseHomeschool]

New autism genes found

 

 

 

The research from which this article has been written may be found in the journal Nature: Functional impact of global rare copy number variation in autism spectrum disorders.

 

 

Think different.

 

 

a

 

This is exciting, however, I'm not completely convinced that vaccines have nothing to do with it. Perhaps the vaccines react with certain genetic traits?

 

I am thinking of a local family here whose oldest daughter, now 25, had a severe reaction to the MMR and is mentally handicapped as a result. She was a normal two year old on one day and 36 hours later, she was broken and her life was changed forever. She is mentally two years old, at the age of 25. The doctors advised the mother not to have any of her other children vaccinated...for any reason....ever.

 

But if an allergic reaction can cause this to happen, then an allergic reaction can cause a whole continuum of neurological symptoms. Much more study is needed. They haven't even brushed the top of this one yet.

[Hedgehogs4]

toxins can cause mutations. the medical industry is desperate to find a way to "prove" that they are not responsible for this so they can keep selling their drugs. other research (which has been shut down by the medical powers-that-be) shows a strong link between MMR and IBS, Chron's disease and autistic spectrum symptoms. why is the medical community not exploring this? instead, they disenfranchised the guy who was working on it.

[Laura Corin]

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

 

 

In days gone by there was much less concentration of type of personality/skills in a particular area. If you lived in a car manufacturing town, for example, there would be lots of different kinds of people who all worked in car manufacturing, could marry and have children. People also travelled less and communicated less widely, so were less likely to seek out partners with very similar traits to their own.

 

If, however, you get an area full of engineers - Silicon Valley, for example - you get a genetic concentration that may lead to an increase in autism. There have been reports of unusually high levels in Northern California. In addition, with more mobility, people may tend to gravitate towards partners who mirror their own traits.

 

I have not idea of the validity of these ideas - anecdotally I have seen borderline autistic spectrum people marrying each other and having a more autistic child. I'm sure that this theory is not the whole answer, however.

 

Laura

[asta]

Your title reflects poor understanding of biology. Identifying one or more contributing factors to a disease process does not mean all others are now ruled out. Most medical conditions, even those that appear to be simple, have both genetic and environmental components.

 

(Note that I'm not taking any position here on vaccines and ASD, nor do I wish to argue that point. I'm just noting the flaw in your logic.)

 

No, I understand the biology fine.

 

I wrote the title specifically to be provocative. As an Aspie, I get sick and tired of hearing that I am the way I am due to vaccines, and that I am some how "cureable" with chelation, diet, blah blah blah blah.

 

One of my sisters is an autie, the other siblings are not on the spectrum. My father and one of his siblings were likely spectrum, but not the others. Both generations grew up within 2 square miles of one another. Four of my nieces and nephews are spectrum, but not the others. Two are living in that same aforementioned 2 square miles, but two are not. That doesn't bode well for vaccines being the causative agent, and it doesn't explain the environmental aspect, unless the second two are outliers.

 

 

a

[jplain]

No, I understand the biology fine.

 

I wrote the title specifically to be provocative.

You call it provocative, I call it misleading and inaccurate.

In my opinion it detracts from the credibility of your post. *shrug*

 

That doesn't bode well for vaccines being the causative agent, and it doesn't explain the environmental aspect, unless the second two are outliers.

More basic biology: an anecdotal account of a single family cannot rule in or out any explanation of a disease.

[Saille]

If, however, you get an area full of engineers - Silicon Valley, for example - you get a genetic concentration that may lead to an increase in autism. There have been reports of unusually high levels in Northern California. In addition, with more mobility, people may tend to gravitate towards partners who mirror their own traits.

 

Laura, do you have a link to the No. Cal. study? I remember hearing a news report that said high education levels were a marker, but I haven't been able to find that report again.

[Catherine]

Can you please link a source for this research?

[Scarlett]

In days gone by there was much less concentration of type of personality/skills in a particular area. If you lived in a car manufacturing town, for example, there would be lots of different kinds of people who all worked in car manufacturing, could marry and have children. People also travelled less and communicated less widely, so were less likely to seek out partners with very similar traits to their own.

 

If, however, you get an area full of engineers - Silicon Valley, for example - you get a genetic concentration that may lead to an increase in autism. There have been reports of unusually high levels in Northern California. In addition, with more mobility, people may tend to gravitate towards partners who mirror their own traits.

 

I have not idea of the validity of these ideas - anecdotally I have seen borderline autistic spectrum people marrying each other and having a more autistic child. I'm sure that this theory is not the whole answer, however.

 

Laura

 

I find this fascinating....hmmm....would love to see a study...

[jplain]

 

If, however, you get an area full of engineers - Silicon Valley, for example - you get a genetic concentration that may lead to an increase in autism.

It is an intriguing theory, and one that interests me because my family fits the profile. However, because SV engineers not only share an occupation but also live in the same region, you have to add environmental and occupational (subset of environmental) factors to genetics when making a list of possible explanations.

[asta]

Here is the article from Wired magazine. I don't know where they got their data.

 

 

a

[asta]

You call it provocative, I call it misleading and inaccurate.

In my opinion it detracts from the credibility of your post. *shrug*

 

I call it my life. You're welcome to try and live it.

 

More basic biology: an anecdotal account of a single family cannot rule in or out any explanation of a disease.

 

Mmm.... yeah. Kinda like Jenny McCarthy and her "cures".

 

 

a

 

(who really should just get off of the NT nets this week)

[jplain]

Mmm.... yeah. Kinda like Jenny McCarthy and her "cures".

:confused: You can take that up with her, not me. I don't promote her opinions.

[Laura Corin]

I've found the study which suggests that highly educated people are more likely to have a child diagnosed with autism. I've also found this article, but there doesn't seem to be a study underlying it. Sorry if I've put forward an unfounded idea.

 

Laura

[Scarlett]

I call it my life. You're welcome to try and live it.

 

 

 

Mmm.... yeah. Kinda like Jenny McCarthy and her "cures".

 

 

a

 

(who really should just get off of the NT nets this week)

 

Asta, I find your family history very interesting. Curious why you don't believe that vacs could, in some family members--and not others---trigger the spectrum?

 

I have a brother who is Paranoid Schizophrenic. In speaking with one of his psychiatric nurses (who has become my good friend), I learned that many many people have the potential to become mentally ill---in many degrees of severity. Why some manifest symptoms while others never do is still a big mystery. There is a trigger. Sometimes it is a physical trauma to the body, sometimes it is severe childhood neglect and sometimes no one can pin point it. That conversation has really changed my views on many mental and physical diseases and conditions. Basically, I don't believe there is any single answer...but that we should avoid the suspect causes if possible.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Scarlett
typo

[happyhomemaker25]

Asta, I find your family history very interesting. Curious why you don't believe that vacs could, in some family members--and not others---trigger the spectrum?

 

I have a brother who is Paranoid Schizophrenic. In speaking with one of his psychiatric nurses (who has become my good friend), I learned that many many people have the potential to become mentally ill---in many degrees of severity. Why some manifest symptoms while others never do is still a big mystery. There is a trigger. Sometimes it is a physical trauma to the body, sometimes it is severe childhood neglect and sometimes no one can pin point it. That conversation has really changed my views on many mental and physical diseases and conditions. Basically, I don't believe there is any single answer...but that we should avoid the suspect causes if possible.

 

Kind of a hijack for just a moment, when we were preparing to adopt my oldest son at 4 a psychologist who'd met with his bio mom informed us that he would be prone to bipolar and ADHD because that was his diagnosis of the mom. He then proceeded to tell me that ADHD meds trigger bipolar behavior. It was simple enough for me to say, "Ok no meds for ADHD."

It just made me think of all the triggers that can go into mental illness. Genetics, medications, vaccinations....

[chiguirre]

Hmm, with so many unique deletions or additions and no clear trends emerging, I'd like to see more emphasis on environmental triggers. A disease that's growing as exponentially as Autism Spectrum Disorders can't really have a purely genetic cause unless there's someting causing vastly more mutations than in the past. It probably isn't vaccines, but it must be something. So rather than hailing a study that basically says there are lots of different genetic causes of autism, I'd say if there are so many different genetic differences, there's probably something else causing so many kids to share so many symptoms. I'd like to see more emphasis on finding that/those triggers. And on the anecdotal level, no one in either dh's or my families had anything like an ASD until my kids' generation. It doesn't mean anything scientifically, but it colors my perception.

[jplain]

I've found the study which suggests that highly educated people are more likely to have a child diagnosed with autism. I've also found this article, but there doesn't seem to be a study underlying it. Sorry if I've put forward an unfounded idea.

No worries Laura, the SV stuff is a really interesting idea that's been tossed around for years. However, the notable ethnic diversity of the area may weaken the case for a primarily genetic cause.

 

Some have suggested that highly educated parents are more likely to seek diagnoses for their children. I'm not sure that's a good enough explanation, as the IEP process in public schools should pick up undiagnosed children. But maybe the children of less well educated parents are being misdiagnosed in schools? I don't know.

[Pajama Mama]

I don't fall completely on one side of the argument or the other. However, I do lean towards being cautious about vaccines. My middle child was born completely healthy. Between his 4 and 6 month check ups--something happened. His brain atrophied and then stopped growing. Nothing happened at that time to cause it. He is now almost 11 and we still have not found any cause. He has been tested and retested for so many things that his medical file has 3 binders. He is mentally 6 months of age.

 

I cannot say that the vaccine caused it. But I cannot say that it didn't either. I was pregnant with my third child when my second developed problems. I chose to have her vaccinated at a much slower rate. She's 9 and still not up to date with vaccines.

 

I switched neurologists when my son's doctor told me that vaccines were absolutely not the cause of my son's problems. She said that if we "wanted money" we could file a claim with VAERS(vaccine adverse effects..something, something). I only wanted to question if it was safe for my third child. I wanted to knock that doctor out. We have never looked to sue for vaccine injury.

 

I thoroughly respected the new neurologist who agreed that as doctors they don't know everything. He said the vaccines could have been a catalyst in causing my son's condition but we may never know.

 

I should mention that my oldest is an aspie and fully vaccinated.

[Scarlett]

Kind of a hijack for just a moment, when we were preparing to adopt my oldest son at 4 a psychologist who'd met with his bio mom informed us that he would be prone to bipolar and ADHD because that was his diagnosis of the mom. He then proceeded to tell me that ADHD meds trigger bipolar behavior. It was simple enough for me to say, "Ok no meds for ADHD."

It just made me think of all the triggers that can go into mental illness. Genetics, medications, vaccinations....

 

Exactly. And btw, it is a miracle you were even given that info. Seems like so much is kept from adoptive parents.

 

My PS brother had severe childhood neglect and probably abuse. (he is actually the half brother of my half brother--and that sounds so wrong to say because I never referred to my half brother as half, but if I don't it doesn't make sense in this context--ANYWAY!!!) My other brother (my actual half brother) is diagnosed BP--after a terrible accident where his truck was hit head on. So I sort of hold my breath and think maybe I don't have that gene....but the thing is I believe EVERY family has the potential to have something like mental illness or Autism spectrum pop up.

 

As far as it growing so rapidly...don't you think part of that is just increased diagnosis?

[teamturner]

This is exciting, however, I'm not completely convinced that vaccines have nothing to do with it. Perhaps the vaccines react with certain genetic traits?

 

I am thinking of a local family here whose oldest daughter, now 25, had a severe reaction to the MMR and is mentally handicapped as a result. She was a normal two year old on one day and 36 hours later, she was broken and her life was changed forever. She is mentally two years old, at the age of 25. The doctors advised the mother not to have any of her other children vaccinated...for any reason....ever.

 

But if an allergic reaction can cause this to happen, then an allergic reaction can cause a whole continuum of neurological symptoms. Much more study is needed. They haven't even brushed the top of this one yet.

 

Your post is what I was thinking as well. Why do most of these ASD children seem totally normal until the MMR vacine and then like a switch they are ASD? I've heard the "experts" claim that ASD symptoms do not present until age 3 (???). Well that's convenient for their theories.

[Saille]

I've found the study which suggests that highly educated people are more likely to have a child diagnosed with autism. I've also found this article, but there doesn't seem to be a study underlying it. Sorry if I've put forward an unfounded idea.

 

Laura

 

No, I'm positive there was a study done...I heard it on All Things Considered. Off to look one more time...

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122256276

 

Hmmm....the search function asked if I meant "studdy". Maybe that's why I couldn't find it before.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Saille

[Joanne]

Asta, to me, this confirms my understanding of the onset of AS in pre-disposed children who have been vaccinated.

 

2 things:

 

1) I believe that vaccines (and in particular the MMR) is a co-factor or exacerbating or triggering agent in children who are biologically at risk.

 

2) I don't believe "autism" is singularly caused and I frainkly don't even believe that it is the same "issue" for each person diagnosed; I think the symptoms are in common, but not everyone with a ASD has the same issue.

 

Finally (I guess that's 3 things), I have said this before. But I believe with every fiber of my being the parents who know they had a "normally" developing child, the child was administered the vaccine and the child changed immediately and permanently. The anecdotal evidence by a spectrum of people is overwhelming that this happens and the vaccine is the causal agent for a complete change in development and behavior that we currently call "autism".

 

The fact that vaccines sometimes cause AS behaviors does not mean that vaccines are the only way AS behaviors happen.

[Mom0012]

I call it my life. You're welcome to try and live it.

 

 

 

Mmm.... yeah. Kinda like Jenny McCarthy and her "cures".

 

I don't know everything that Jenny McCarthy supports, but I do know that the gfcf diet is one of the things she is vocal about. This diet literally turned my life and the life of my son around in an absolutely miraculous way. No, it does not help every child, but there are so many children that it does. It really isn't that big of a stretch when you think about all the children with food allergies these days and the huge numbers of people with undiagnosed celiac disease.

 

Lisa

[IsabelC]

Notwithstanding that the OP title might be correct, this information will make no difference to those people who are convinced of the vaccines cause (or trigger off a predisposition to) ASD.

 

Incidentally, how do we determine that it's rates of ASD that are on the increase, as opposed to dx? (Just crossed my mind, because somebody told me that AS/HFA was the new ADHD, ie the dx of choice for kids with behavioral issues.)

[kmacnchs]

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

 

I asked dh that (ped. nurse in charge of vaccines) b/c I am open to all arguments and he said it is b/c we have learned more. Many years ago, people w/high functioning autism were just eccentric or weird while low functioning autism were just retarded. Not trying to be insensitive...it's just how it was. The more we know, the more we label...

[TXMomof4]

No worries Laura, the SV stuff is a really interesting idea that's been tossed around for years. However, the notable ethnic diversity of the area may weaken the case for a primarily genetic cause.

 

Some have suggested that highly educated parents are more likely to seek diagnoses for their children. I'm not sure that's a good enough explanation, as the IEP process in public schools should pick up undiagnosed children. But maybe the children of less well educated parents are being misdiagnosed in schools? I don't know.

 

Just some more anecdotal evidence, but I am certain my niece would test on the spectrum. However, her parents (who want to do anything to help her succeed) don't want a 'label' on her. The school won't identify her as ASD (in a very low income/transient area) and they won't pursue a dx. I'm guessing their situation is more normal than parents who are educated in every nuance of a dx and who battle for their kids.

[jillian]

Not really. Vaccines might activate some genes, or turn off others.

And there is still so much unanswered.

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

Just because they learn more doesn't solve the whole riddle yet. There's a long way to go yet for that.

I completely agree.

[Stacy in NJ]

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

QUOTE]

 

The rate of autism isn't higher; the diagnosis rate is higher.

 

Once the criteria for diagnosis was revised the rate of diagnosis sky-rocketed, at least here in the USA.

[Cindyz]

My son was diagnosed with autism by early intervention when he was 14 months old. We were unsure if the diagnosis was correct but we allowed it because it was necessary for him to receive services. A neurologist diagnosed him with sensory integration disorder (not autism), but a school diagnosis is different.

 

He is 5 and a half now and is quirky but so far does not meet the official criteria for autism or asperger's although he still retains this label with the school district so that he can receive the special services he needs (social type therapies).

 

My husband has similar traits (but different) and because of this I chose not to vaccinate my son from the beginning. He has never had a vaccination and while I worried about this decision, I'm more convinced that if he had had vaccinations it may have triggered something that he is obviously predisposed to.

[cjbeach]

As a parent of a kid who was NT pre-vax, had a vax injury ay 17 mos, and though we were told when he developed ASD symptoms almost immediately "...but the literature doesn't reflect" he now has an ASD dx. Started out pdd at 3,new dx Aspergers at 9yo.

 

I believe some children are genetically pre-wired to have vax reaction. It may be the trigger in some kids. But there is NO STANDARD in autism, that's what makes it so confusing. There's the whole mito thing, the methylation disturbance, the efficacy of Biomed treatment in some kids,and "what was immune system like on the day of the vax" concept... too many variables. 10 people may be exposed to a carcinogen, what makes one person more prone to develop Cancer than the other 9. I believe in an immunity connection. I have a high-fuctioning child but I know enough low-functioning children with parents who believe there is so much more to this (immunity connection). There are a number of gene studies going on right now. My niece is part of Harkonossen's team (sic) -genomic unit at CHOP. I hope there is a gene link, though no one has been able to explain the extreme spectrum we're seeing.

 

As far as diagnosis occurence... talk to preschool teachers who have been in teaching for years. My aunt has been a teacher forever and she feels that she has only seen the AMOUNT of symptoms displayed in ASD rise over the past 15 years. She says so often that you saw a few kids with ASD-like symptoms, but not the amount that we're seeing today. Removing the lower function ASD kids and the higher functioning Aspie kids from the equation, there's this middle group of kids (maybe the pdd kids) that we're seeing now that my aunt swears up and down she never saw in that QUANTITY in years past. What I saw in my children's classrooms and what I saw in my own classrooms growing are definitely different. I remember the quirky kids, but the AMOUNT that we're seeing now... no.

 

ETA- though controversial we did start BioMed *early.* To be honest, we walked out of our first DAN! appt thinking the doc was a flake (during and after the appt dh kept walking outside to call his client, a prominent HemeOnc in WA, to reaffirm what the DAN was saying. The onc doc disputed everything. Everything. We rode home thinking we had just been milked of $500 by a conartist). I'm not sure we saw many changes in ds with our half-hearted attempt at Biomed..however, at that first appt we did a stool sample and he tested+ for yeast in his gut. Hands down, treating the yeast was the BIGGEST gain we saw in him. Boy did I eat my words. OMG. His gains were almost immediate, rapid, and long-term. We treat traditionally (he's been in ST and ABA) but though I was the first to balk at Biomed, we went back to it. I'm not about to turn away from anything that may help my son. I have not gone full-on with MB12 but just using a methylation promoter the past 2 weeks, we're seeing + changes. Nothing huge, but they're there. I'm a RN, I know what "the literature reflects" and I have btdt ... but there's more to it. Much more. Anything I once thought, I no longer think and I'm open to anything.

 

I also thing the variation is the spectrum is WAY to wide.

Edited June 10, 2010 by cjbeach

[mcconnellboys]

For me, this supports findings that are already out there. Having this gene, or any gene for an auto-immune problem, for instance (and I think autism is autoimmune related), makes you predisposed to environmental triggers that will turn on certain adverse functions within those genes.

 

I think it's not widely understood that the protein "machines" that combine and recombine in myriad ways within our DNA may be affected by nearly any sort of chemicals with which they come into contact. The normal ways in which those proteins work can be entirely disrupted by contact with various chemicals coming into the body from outside.

 

Scientists studying just the tiny fruit fly, for instance, have found that something like 4 proteins on one gene can interact, combine, and recombine in over 10,000 different ways. These combinations make a vast difference in the workings of the organisms, affect ability to do things, affect defects, affect poisoning of the system vs. proper functioning, etc.

 

Plant scientists are finding the genetically modified organisms inserted into various plants are triggering new, never before seen viruses to be released from the genes of these plants. We just don't know all the ways chemicals can affect our genes or what the results may be.....

 

There's a whole micro-world of information we haven't even begun to tap. Playing around with chemicals, inserting random things into the human body; genetically modifying organisms when we don't begin to understand the repercussions, is all just so much playing with fire.....

 

Because I happen to believe in a living God, I tend to say, "Only God can make a Tree..... a lizard..... a flower..... a horse..... a heart..... an eye....."

 

And what I mean by that is that we humans are doing with life on earth the thing many are tempted to do when they are trying to put together a new piece of equipment: tinker around with the parts first and maybe read the directions later if there are parts left over and the thing won't work.....

 

We do not comprehend inner space in nearly enough detail to be doing such tinkering. The result of this tinkering is an ever increasingly polluted pool of life forms: new viruses and bacteria we have trouble controlling, plants that don't act in expected ways; humans with an increasing number of "disabilities" and an explosion of auto-immune problems within our population......

 

SOMETHING in our environments is causing the increase in problems humans are experiencing today. I don't care what the something is, I just want it identified and corrected..... The alternative is that our population will increasingly become "disabled", and what do we do when the healthy caretakers age and die off? Who takes care of our population then? This is not a survival of the fittest scenario. Everyone will be affected sooner or later, when the right chemicals hit their system, or those of their children, or grandchildren....

[Parrothead]

I asked dh that (ped. nurse in charge of vaccines) b/c I am open to all arguments and he said it is b/c we have learned more. Many years ago, people w/high functioning autism were just eccentric or weird while low functioning autism were just retarded. Not trying to be insensitive...it's just how it was. The more we know, the more we label...

:iagree:absolutely. And instead of encouraging parents in terms of treatment, support and the like, parents then were encouraged to institutionalize their children.

 

I think it is a combination of things and many different reasons instead of a single cause.

[Margaret in GA]

One thing- why is the rate of autism so much higher in the last decades, and getting higher?

QUOTE]

 

The rate of autism isn't higher; the diagnosis rate is higher.

 

Once the criteria for diagnosis was revised the rate of diagnosis sky-rocketed, at least here in the USA.

 

Sure, it's higher. But it's too high to just be an increase in diagnosis. Ask teachers who have been in the profession for 20-30 years and they'll tell you that they are seeing way more kids with issues.

Margaret

[i.love.lucy]

For me, this supports findings that are already out there. Having this gene, or any gene for an auto-immune problem, for instance (and I think autism is autoimmune related), makes you predisposed to environmental triggers that will turn on certain adverse functions within those genes.

 

I think it's not widely understood that the protein "machines" that combine and recombine in myriad ways within our DNA may be affected by nearly any sort of chemicals with which they come into contact. The normal ways in which those proteins work can be entirely disrupted by contact with various chemicals coming into the body from outside.

 

Scientists studying just the tiny fruit fly, for instance, have found that something like 4 proteins on one gene can interact, combine, and recombine in over 10,000 different ways. These combinations make a vast difference in the workings of the organisms, affect ability to do things, affect defects, affect poisoning of the system vs. proper functioning, etc.

 

Plant scientists are finding the genetically modified organisms inserted into various plants are triggering new, never before seen viruses to be released from the genes of these plants. We just don't know all the ways chemicals can affect our genes or what the results may be.....

 

There's a whole micro-world of information we haven't even begun to tap. Playing around with chemicals, inserting random things into the human body; genetically modifying organisms when we don't begin to understand the repercussions, is all just so much playing with fire.....

 

Because I happen to believe in a living God, I tend to say, "Only God can make a Tree..... a lizard..... a flower..... a horse..... a heart..... an eye....."

 

And what I mean by that is that we humans are doing with life on earth the thing many are tempted to do when they are trying to put together a new piece of equipment: tinker around with the parts first and maybe read the directions later if there are parts left over and the thing won't work.....

 

We do not comprehend inner space in nearly enough detail to be doing such tinkering. The result of this tinkering is an ever increasingly polluted pool of life forms: new viruses and bacteria we have trouble controlling, plants that don't act in expected ways; humans with an increasing number of "disabilities" and an explosion of auto-immune problems within our population......

 

SOMETHING in our environments is causing the increase in problems humans are experiencing today. I don't care what the something is, I just want it identified and corrected..... The alternative is that our population will increasingly become "disabled", and what do we do when the healthy caretakers age and die off? Who takes care of our population then? This is not a survival of the fittest scenario. Everyone will be affected sooner or later, when the right chemicals hit their system, or those of their children, or grandchildren....

:iagree:Good post.

[AnitaMcC]

I figure ASDs have multi factors. Genetic and environmental. There are so many factors that can affect us at the most minute level in our genes that we just don't know about it yet.

 

As for the number of people dx with ASDs... one factor that I believe is a factor (even if it is a small one) that more people are alive where 50 yrs ago wouldn't have lived. I am not explaining this very well but here are the facts...

 

I have two sons dx on the spectrum. Ds15 is dx Asperger/Sensory Integration Disorder/ADD. Ds11 is dx with ADHD. Ds9 is dx with Autism Spectrum Disorder/ADHD. I feel that my father is on the spectrum, as I am. I am dx with ADHD. Here is the clencher....I shouldn't be alive. I was born 3 months preemie... 44 yrs ago. I was not supposed to live, let alone be "normal". According to my parents, I died (I think they meant I stopped breathing/stopped heart, but not brain dead) several times as a baby. So here is the thing... many people are surviving situations that wouldn't have been possible 50 years ago (even 25 yrs ago).

 

So ASD/ADHD was able to continue its genetic path from my dad, me, and now my kids due to medical advances. Without the medical advances that were available, that I was lucky enough to be born in a Navy Hospital that happened to be just starting up a neonatal unit... I wouldn't have lived to pass on the genes to my kids.

[EmilyK]

 

I have a brother who is Paranoid Schizophrenic. In speaking with one of his psychiatric nurses (who has become my good friend), I learned that many many people have the potential to become mentally ill---in many degrees of severity. Why some manifest symptoms while others never do is still a big mystery. There is a trigger. Sometimes it is a physical trauma to the body, sometimes it is severe childhood neglect and sometimes no one can pin point it. That conversation has really changed my views on many mental and physical diseases and conditions. Basically, I don't believe there is any single answer...but that we should avoid the suspect causes if possible.

 

Many years ago I read a really good New Yorker article about this. In my recollection, it had to do with genetic predisposition and stress (which could be the "normal" stress of life, or abuse or war.)

 

A friend with kids on the spectrum has been reading about genetic predisposition coupled with the rise of chemicals and toxins in our environment and diet. I don't have her cites, however, but knowing her it is pretty mainstream science.

[Alenee]

I figure ASDs have multi factors. Genetic and environmental. There are so many factors that can affect us at the most minute level in our genes that we just don't know about it yet.

 

As for the number of people dx with ASDs... one factor that I believe is a factor (even if it is a small one) that more people are alive where 50 yrs ago wouldn't have lived. I am not explaining this very well but here are the facts...

 

I have two sons dx on the spectrum. Ds15 is dx Asperger/Sensory Integration Disorder/ADD. Ds11 is dx with ADHD. Ds9 is dx with Autism Spectrum Disorder/ADHD. I feel that my father is on the spectrum, as I am. I am dx with ADHD. Here is the clencher....I shouldn't be alive. I was born 3 months preemie... 44 yrs ago. I was not supposed to live, let alone be "normal". According to my parents, I died (I think they meant I stopped breathing/stopped heart, but not brain dead) several times as a baby. So here is the thing... many people are surviving situations that wouldn't have been possible 50 years ago (even 25 yrs ago).

 

So ASD/ADHD was able to continue its genetic path from my dad, me, and now my kids due to medical advances. Without the medical advances that were available, that I was lucky enough to be born in a Navy Hospital that happened to be just starting up a neonatal unit... I wouldn't have lived to pass on the genes to my kids.

 

This is a very interesting perspective. I want to thank McConellboys for her post as well. Very thought provoking.

 

I'm interested in the original quote where it said each person with an ASD dx has their own unique form. A dear friend of mine has been fighting with dr's for years trying to get help for her son. He is now in an autism study at the local elementary school but his dr's steadfastly hold to their belief that he doesn't have autism for one reason alone: he is friendly and loveable. He hits every other mark but because of the social factor, they're holding their ground. It's ridiculous, frankly.

[nmoira]

toxins can cause mutations. the medical industry is desperate to find a way to "prove" that they are not responsible for this so they can keep selling their drugs.

And how would the toxin cause the same mutation in every cell in the body?

 

other research (which has been shut down by the medical powers-that-be) shows a strong link between MMR and IBS, Chron's disease and autistic spectrum symptoms.

Even if conducted honestly and ethically, one study with a small handful of carefully screened participants does not a "strong link" make.

 

Edited to add: PZ Myers posted a nice play-by-play of the paper referenced by the OP. No mention of religion in his post, I promise. :)

Edited June 11, 2010 by nmoira

[asta]

Biology: Genetic Mutations - an Introduction to Biological Mutations in Genes

An Introduction to the Process of Genetic Mutation

By L. K. McCosker

 

Mutations - a change in the structure of the DNA of an organism - can greatly affect the results of selective breeding and/or genetic engineering. Mutations involve the alteration of the genotype of an organism and, therefore, a change in the traits that the individual expresses (known as its phenotype) or passes on.

 

Mutations affect the DNA of an organism through a range of different processes. They are caused either spontaneously or as a result of a mutagen.

Mutations can be caused by errors during meiosis, where chromosomes may fail to separate correctly, be deleted or lose, be rejoined incorrectly, be duplicated or be inverted. Sets of homologous chromosomes may fail to separate, resulting in polyploidy (the existence of more than two sets of chromosomes in an individual). During the manufacture of DNA, in the process of transcription and translation, a nucleotide - part of a nucleic acid - could be added, deleted or incorrectly positioned, producing a codon (triplet code) different to the one intended. This results in the manufacture of a completely new amino acid. Mutations can alter the amino acid sequence at a point, or right along the chain in a frame shift - each has different results for the individual.

 

Mutations are, however, essential for the formation of new genetic material as they alter the genomes of individuals and therefore produce new traits in those individuals. These new characteristics have the potential to increase an individual's chance of survival if they are beneficial in some way to that individual. This can result in individuals displaying those traits having a competitive advantage over individuals without the traits, and they therefore have a higher chance of surviving to produce a new generation. This forms the basis of Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which is based on the primordial notion of 'survival of the fittest.'

 

While beneficial effects caused by mutations are reasonably uncommon, many have been recognized by humans as advantageous to the organism (and therefore also to humankind itself). These have been harnessed through selective breeding and/or genetic engineering to ensure that at least some offspring of the next generation would also display those traits. Where agricultural crops and animals are concerned, natural biological mutations have proved to be greatly beneficial to humankind.

 

Mutations affect the following generation. My father affected me. I affected my child. My NT niece is unlikely to affect her children.

 

 

asta

[nmoira]

 

Mutations affect the following generation. My father affected me. I affected my child. My NT niece is unlikely to affect her children.

Yes, but I was responding specifically to the assertion that the " the medical industry is desperate to find a way to "prove" that they are not responsible for this so they can keep selling their drugs." Given the rest of the post, I took this to mean the MMR.

[cocoabean]

Your title reflects poor understanding of biology. Identifying one or more contributing factors to a disease process does not mean all others are now ruled out. Most medical conditions, even those that appear to be simple, have both genetic and environmental components.

 

(Note that I'm not taking any position here on vaccines and ASD, nor do I wish to argue that point. I'm just noting the flaw in your logic.)

 

I totally agree with this. I think it shows flawed logic when one throws the baby out with the bathwater. I'm sure as research comes forth with its many opinions and interpretations, that it will lead to many debates over the cause(s) and why's of autism. And I'm certain the debates will go on for many decades to come.

 

There has to be more than one answer as to why there are so many more autistic children now, compared to just two decades ago. Autism has reached epidemic proportions in the last ten years, and appears to be climbing exponentially in diagnosed cases each year. Genetics may be a factor as well as environmental or other issues. I don't believe there is only one single cause, but many causes, and I pray the answers come out sooner rather than later.

 

I pray for a cure for autism. I am not affected personally, but I do know people who have autistic children. It is sad to see so many children and parents affected and yet no one can pinpoint the cause yet, or prescribe a means of prevention.

[tex-mex]

No, I understand the biology fine.

 

I wrote the title specifically to be provocative. As an Aspie, I get sick and tired of hearing that I am the way I am due to vaccines, and that I am some how "cureable" with chelation, diet, blah blah blah blah.

 

One of my sisters is an autie, the other siblings are not on the spectrum. My father and one of his siblings were likely spectrum, but not the others. Both generations grew up within 2 square miles of one another. Four of my nieces and nephews are spectrum, but not the others. Two are living in that same aforementioned 2 square miles, but two are not. That doesn't bode well for vaccines being the causative agent, and it doesn't explain the environmental aspect, unless the second two are outliers.

 

 

a

 

Yeah. What she said. :D

I am thrilled with the article and I am in the Autism Spectrum. Back in the 70's they have no clue what to label me. My sister was far worse. Mom had ASD quirks -- so, yes, I agree with the genetic theory.

[asta]

Yes, but I was responding specifically to the assertion that the " the medical industry is desperate to find a way to "prove" that they are not responsible for this so they can keep selling their drugs." Given the rest of the post, I took this to mean the MMR.

 

Oh, I wasn't responding to your post nmoira - it just landed that way. Sorry.

 

 

a

[Peela]

toxins can cause mutations. the medical industry is desperate to find a way to "prove" that they are not responsible for this so they can keep selling their drugs. other research (which has been shut down by the medical powers-that-be) shows a strong link between MMR and IBS, Chron's disease and autistic spectrum symptoms. why is the medical community not exploring this? instead, they disenfranchised the guy who was working on it.

 

Yes, this is my understand also. The research follows where they want to find results.

 

No, I understand the biology fine.

 

I wrote the title specifically to be provocative. As an Aspie, I get sick and tired of hearing that I am the way I am due to vaccines, and that I am some how "cureable" with chelation, diet, blah blah blah blah.

 

One of my sisters is an autie, the other siblings are not on the spectrum. My father and one of his siblings were likely spectrum, but not the others. Both generations grew up within 2 square miles of one another. Four of my nieces and nephews are spectrum, but not the others. Two are living in that same aforementioned 2 square miles, but two are not. That doesn't bode well for vaccines being the causative agent, and it doesn't explain the environmental aspect, unless the second two are outliers.

 

 

a

 

No, it obviously doesnt- for you- and obviously your case is proof that vaccines cannot be the sole cause. It doesn't dismiss that vaccines are a trigger in a genetically susceptible case, though.

ANd if I were you, and being told "how to cure" my autism by well meaning people, I would be annoyed by now, too.

 

But not everyone is saying that they are. Would you dismiss that vaccines are a possible cause in some cases- as someone else says, there are many parents who saw their child change after being vaccinated- would you dimiss all evidence because of your own case? There seem to be a wide variety of issues and causes.

 

I have a cousin whose daughter is amazingly fairy like and unusual and self contained. Hard to explain. She would probably have been dx something or other (and fmaily members have suggested she be tested), but instead has been able to thrive in a Waldorf school setting and with very patient parents. I dont think there is anything wrong with her, personally, even though she is "different", and I wonder if anything is actually "wrong" with many of these dx kids. Maybe this is just normal for them- for you- and nothing is "wrong" at all. Maybe its a genetic advantage in some way to be quirkie in these times. I don't know.

 

And maybe some of the kids are being triggered by something in their environment.

 

I just think its good to stay openminded and not draw too many conclusions while so much is not known.

[nmoira]

Oh, I wasn't responding to your post nmoira - it just landed that way. Sorry.

 

 

a

:001_smile: